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Anhenka
The Cult of Personality DARKNESS.
681
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Posted - 2014.11.27 23:05:26 -
[31] - Quote
Capqu wrote: You can't trick me CCP Rise, I know that's you on an alt.
God I wish :) That means I would be currently employed and have decent job security.
But then I'd also be living in Iceland with winter coming in..... tough choice. |
Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
927
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Posted - 2014.11.27 23:06:36 -
[32] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Capqu wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Capqu wrote: Rails on a Tengu comfortably hit to 130km, Heavy missiles on the same ship will only hit to 88km and do significantly less applied damage at that range than the rails. That is without tracking or range mods for the rails, which the Heavies cannot even have. Not to mention the inherent disadvantage of delayed and destroyable [smartbombing] damage.
Careful what you're saying here unbonused medium rails dont project anywhere near as much damage at as much range as unbonused heavies do. nerf tengu? What? Thats just a straight up lie so okay. Unbonused ship used (Typhoon). Range: http://puu.sh/d7Wji/99ea7590a3.png Application: http://puu.sh/d7Wl7/e7a79f690c.png Target used was an Ishtar burning at 45 degrees. This is WITHOUT any tracking mods for the railguns [which the missiles cannot have], and they are already better at every range over 15km. Again, don't forget that missiles deal delayed, destroyable damage. im not getting that...
update your eft you may be missing the 500% damage bonus fozzie fell down the stairs and tripped over his keyboard and accidentally added a few patches back
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
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JEFFRAIDER
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
367
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Posted - 2014.11.27 23:08:01 -
[33] - Quote
Hear hear, tho you'd have better results if your tone didn't sound like you were in the middle of a rectal prolapse surgery. |
xXWeedGoku666Xx
Freeport Ratting Appreciation Guild Phoebe Freeport Republic
0
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Posted - 2014.11.27 23:09:01 -
[34] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Capqu wrote:I also like that even though a couple of [wrong] people are disagreeing about HMs being underpowered or railguns being overpowered not a single person has disagreed with how rediculous Ishtars are I personally think not, that it's mainly people too damn lazy to fly the right ships in a way that can counter them instead of flying their favorite ship and then whining that since an Ishtar is a hard counter to the ships that they like, it needs to be nerfed
The only thing that counters Ishtars are Ishtars. true facts. |
Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
927
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Posted - 2014.11.27 23:11:10 -
[35] - Quote
JEFFRAIDER wrote:Hear hear, tho you'd have better results if your tone didn't sound like you were in the middle of a rectal prolapse surgery.
eveo changes a man
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
983
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Posted - 2014.11.27 23:13:33 -
[36] - Quote
Viribus wrote:anyway while we're living in a fantasy world where CCP actually takes an interest in the balance of their game, i've compiled an abridged list of things that are a complete joke in PVP for the highly-competent balance wizards of Crowd Control Productions to consider:
- Medium autocannons
- Hurricanes
- Drakes
- Harbingers
- Prophecies
- Brutixes
- Heavy missiles
- Cruise missiles
- Torpedoes
- Pretty much every tech 1 battleship, but especially the Raven and Whyphoon (named because why would you fly one??)
- Target spectrum breakers (i forgot these existed for the better part of a year)
- Pilgrims
- Every sansha ship
- Cynabals
- Dragoons
- Coraxes
- Exequror NIs
- Nighthawks
while we're at it, whatever genius thought it was a good idea to give bubble immunity to interceptors needs his brain examined, maybe even replaced
corax's, highthawks,dragoons and prophecies whats up with them? .. the rest i get
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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Andy Koraka
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
47
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Posted - 2014.11.27 23:35:55 -
[37] - Quote
250mm Rails are actually in a good spot, they have a very solid niche but if you rely on them too heavy (like BNI) your enemy will fill the resist hole and come out with some stupid EHP against kin/therm.
The other weapon systems just need to be improved to the point that outperforming rails in their intended niches validates the lost range. The gap isn't huge (except for HMLs which are trash), but it needs a lot more than a 2% range change to Scorch.
Ishtars though are so hideously broken it's dumb, compared to any other HAC they have an overwhelming advantage in both damage and application. In the Ishtar you combine both selectable damage like Projectiles, 250mm Railgun range/tracking, and do twice the damage of comparable rail boats like the Eagle once they start switching to range ammo. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
486
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Posted - 2014.11.27 23:40:08 -
[38] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Capqu wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:afkalt wrote:Warde Guildencrantz wrote:rails are not broken, if they are OP it would be by a very small margin. Their lack of damage choice and tracking is their weakness.
heavies suck indeed, but only in comparison to how OP they were before, they still have obscene projection and reasonable damage. Neither of these statements are true. Medium rails hit too hard and heavy missiles are a complete joke. I mean, I do more DPS fitting rails on hulls bonused for other weapons for gods sakes. Heavies do apply damage exceedingly well you just need to team it up with a bonused painter I don't think you understand what applying damage exceedingly well means if you think it means you require help from another ship bonused specifically to help you. TIL painters do nothing for guns..... Medium rails SMOKE HML at sub 50km ranges. Anything passed that and travel time kills you. I've posted graphs of this before.
...cough...cough...COUGH...
If I say now that my missile thread from four weeks ago does make sense now, would it sound really bad if I drop an "I told you so" in?
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
983
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Posted - 2014.11.27 23:42:16 -
[39] - Quote
cruisers doing more dps than combat bc's is a little broke
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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Viribus
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
313
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Posted - 2014.11.27 23:52:04 -
[40] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:corax's, highthawks,dragoons and prophecies whats up with them? .. the rest i get
corax is an inferior talwar, there's really no reason for it to be in the game
nighthawk has a bizzare slot layout, horrible fitting, and uses missiles without having a rapid light bonus
dragoons are just terrible, literally nobody thinks they're good
prophecy's are a worse myrmidon, it's just a big slow garbageheap of a ship that does worse damage than most cruisers
watch me be a scurb and get owned
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
987
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Posted - 2014.11.27 23:57:48 -
[41] - Quote
perhaps if they undone the big buff they made too light missiles then the tracking bonus on the corax might be more meaningful
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists
ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic.
Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
486
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Posted - 2014.11.28 00:05:28 -
[42] - Quote
Viribus wrote:Harvey James wrote:corax's, highthawks,dragoons and prophecies whats up with them? .. the rest i get corax is an inferior talwar, there's really no reason for it to be in the game nighthawk has a bizzare slot layout, horrible fitting, and uses missiles without having a rapid light bonus dragoons are just terrible, literally nobody thinks they're good prophecy's are a worse myrmidon, it's just a big slow garbageheap of a ship that does worse damage than most cruisers
Well the Nighthawk used to be a good command ship, capable of good semi-passive tank, you know back in the day when heavy missiles could be used.
Rapid launchers are the worst thing ever to hit Tranquility, that's like giving all cruisers and battlecruisers alike a 400% range and damage bonus to small turrets.
Nothing could go wrong.
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St'oto
Hell's Death Squad Enemy Spotted.
2
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Posted - 2014.11.28 00:06:34 -
[43] - Quote
Capqu wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Capqu wrote: Rails on a Tengu comfortably hit to 130km, Heavy missiles on the same ship will only hit to 88km and do significantly less applied damage at that range than the rails. That is without tracking or range mods for the rails, which the Heavies cannot even have. Not to mention the inherent disadvantage of delayed and destroyable [smartbombing] damage.
Careful what you're saying here unbonused medium rails dont project anywhere near as much damage at as much range as unbonused heavies do. nerf tengu? What? Thats just a straight up lie so okay. Unbonused ship used (Typhoon). Range: http://puu.sh/d7Wji/99ea7590a3.png Application: http://puu.sh/d7Wl7/e7a79f690c.png Target used was an Ishtar burning at 45 degrees. This is WITHOUT any tracking mods for the railguns [which the missiles cannot have], and they are already better at every range over 15km. Again, don't forget that missiles deal delayed, destroyable damage.
Ok, I have to point out one massive flaw with all of your arguments regarding missiles in general. - You act like EVERY PVP fitted ship in the game carries a smartbomb or two that is specifically designed for negating missiles. When in reality 2% of PVP fits have smartbombs in them. Usually those utility highs are for nos/neut.
So repeating "destroyable damage" in every post means nothing. As it has never been a REAL WORLD problem for as long as I've been playing EVE. And that's been 11 years now. Yes missiles can be destroyed - but hardly anyone bothers to do so. They either fight the missile boat and win, or die. They don't bother to mitigate damage with a smartbomb. Instead if they want to mitigate damage they use range(less applied damage) or kiting(going faster then what is it...missile velocity to mitigate damage). NOT SMARTBOMBS!
I mean whenever missiles are the "flavor of the month" on the "buff list" everyone uses this "point" in all of their arguments. Which leads me to believe either A) they have no real point to argue on so they have to fall back to this or B) they don't actually PVP at all. Or at least with or against missile boats.
EDIT: I mean hell even "guaranteed" utility slots in the case of Marauders usually end up being filled with Neuts/Nos. Not Smartbombs. So the ONE ship in the game that usually has room to put a decent rack of smartbombs - hardly ever does. So please stop using "but they can be destroyed" as a point in your argument. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2023
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Posted - 2014.11.28 00:06:37 -
[44] - Quote
to fix the ishtar follow these stepps.
1. change the sentry optimal range/tracking bonus to medium hybrid turret fall off bonus 2. ????
3. Profit.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
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MMcha
Broski North
0
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Posted - 2014.11.28 00:10:24 -
[45] - Quote
Well, Cappu, I really must protest. I personally don't see how the Ishtar is at all overpowered. I don't see why heavy drones shouldn't be able to go as fast as warriors on ALL ships inherently.
I also don't see why they shouldn't be able to track absolutely anything and carry 2 backup sets of sentries.
They already knerfed drones into the ground by preventing people from assigning to a trigger, are you trying to get drones made useless? for god sake man grow up and stop being a little baby.
The Endgame of EvE Online being dominated by 1 single ship is not a problem its just because people are too LAZY to counter it!
Get good scrub and practice more, perhaps the test server is where you need to go for a while, maybe one day your stupid alliance will be relevant enough to own space. (but i doubt it, LOL)
Peace nerds.
p.s Keep up the great work CCP you're on track to being the best company at losing subs I have ever subscribed too by simply IGNORING the player base on every issue and having no communication with the general public whatsoever. |
Viribus
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
314
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Posted - 2014.11.28 00:14:46 -
[46] - Quote
St'oto wrote:blah blah blah i've spent a decade in a scrub-filled echochamber
i take it you've never heard of the "firewall" before
well gather 'round and i'll spin you a yarn of long ago, when people actually flew missile doctrines
it used to be common practice to have a few brick-tanked T3s with smartbombs in your fleet to position between your fleet and the drakes or tengus shooting you
it was actually very effective
fin
watch me be a scurb and get owned
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El Space Mariachi
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
183
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Posted - 2014.11.28 01:32:26 -
[47] - Quote
St'oto wrote: So repeating "destroyable damage" in every post means nothing. As it has never been a REAL WORLD problem for as long as I've been playing EVE. And that's been 11 years now. Yes missiles can be destroyed - but hardly anyone bothers to do so. They either fight the missile boat and win, or die. They don't bother to mitigate damage with a smartbomb.
as viribus pointed out in the post above firewalling used to be an incredibly common counter to drake/thundercat tengu/cruise missile fleets and has even been used recently against anyone unfortunate enough who attempts to use missiles in fleets for some reason (source : i was in one of those fleets). I don't know what you've spent the last 11 years doing but whatever your area of focus in the game, taking five minutes to learn anything about mid-to-large scale fleet fights is not it.
of course not everybody fits smartbombs just in case they encounter a heavy missile user in small gang or solo situations because A) nobody uses heavy missiles in small gang or solo (or any) pvp situations and B) fitting reactively to something you aren't certain will be there "just in case" when it gimps the rest of your fit so hard would be ********. It's not the same as fitting ECCM in lowsec because at least in lowsec you're certain to find a falcon(s). None of that says firewalling isn't still a weakness of heavy missiles in large scale encounters, because it quite emphatically is.
St'oto wrote:EDIT: I mean hell even "guaranteed" utility slots in the case of Marauders usually end up being filled with Neuts/Nos. Not Smartbombs. So the ONE ship in the game that usually has room to put a decent rack of smartbombs - hardly ever does. So please stop using "but they can be destroyed" as a point in your argument.
Actually I have a smartbomb fit to my Golem right at this very moment
see i can bring up an edge case to deflect an argument too
but yeah smartbombs are fantastic for killing drones on a marauder and you have the capacity to comfortably fit one alongside a neut and a cyno, so I do. I guess I could also use it to near-totally neutralise a HML drake fleet but if I encounter one of those I'd be more concerned with working out how I'd gone back in time to 2011 and telling my past self not to give away my first character.
gay gamers for jesus
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Omega Crendraven
Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies.
219
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Posted - 2014.11.28 01:49:03 -
[48] - Quote
Lets not forget the RLML Genocide the slaved Caldari race to the kinetic damage the TE nerf Where is the strong HML, the independent caldari who needs no scourge?
now you make "scorch rebalance", the "light missile rebalance", but what about the Ishtar, the 73km Rep range without falloff and siqq t3 subsystem resistance. Listen to valuable feedback dumb brutors, this thread is full of serbian wisdom. fukk thera, fukk the confessor and the scorch, I want the ishtar beheaded and the HML king to return
" REMOVE RLML remove rlml you are worst light missile, you are the missile idiot you are the missile smell. return to rubicon. to our hml cousins you may come our fitting. you may live in the hangarGǪ.ahahahaha" CCP Rise
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El Space Mariachi
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
183
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Posted - 2014.11.28 01:59:50 -
[49] - Quote
Omega Crendraven wrote:Lets not forget the RLML Genocide the slaved Caldari race to the kinetic damage the TE nerf Where is the strong HML, the independent caldari who needs no scourge?
now you make "scorch rebalance", the "light missile rebalance", but what about the Ishtar, the 73km Rep range without falloff and siqq t3 subsystem resistance. Listen to valuable feedback dumb brutors, this thread is full of serbian wisdom. fukk thera, fukk the confessor and the scorch, I want the ishtar beheaded and the HML king to return
xaxaxa 6pytna yes one day railgun rascal wil returned to the zoo and hml/scortch overlord reign supreme
ishtar spels no match for strong CJIABA tactics
fozzie may live in a yurt XAXAXAXA
gay gamers for jesus
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Zavand Crendraven
Rolling Static Gone Critical
3
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Posted - 2014.11.28 02:03:24 -
[50] - Quote
Viribus wrote:anyway while we're living in a fantasy world where CCP actually takes an interest in the balance of their game, i've compiled an abridged list of things that are a complete joke in PVP for the highly-competent balance wizards of Crowd Control Productions to consider:
- Medium autocannons
- Hurricanes
- Drakes
- Harbingers
- Prophecies
- Brutixes
- Heavy missiles
- Cruise missiles
- Torpedoes
- Pretty much every tech 1 battleship, but especially the Raven and Whyphoon (named because why would you fly one??)
- Target spectrum breakers (i forgot these existed for the better part of a year)
- Pilgrims
- Every sansha ship
- Cynabals
- Dragoons
- Coraxes
- Exequror NIs
- Nighthawks
while we're at it, whatever genius thought it was a good idea to give bubble immunity to interceptors needs his brain examined, maybe even replaced i dunno cruise missiles seems quite ok and sansha ship seems to kinda work but yea else cant say i disagree. though i think raven and phoon might be tied to torps being quite literal **** |
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Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3969
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Posted - 2014.11.28 03:00:09 -
[51] - Quote
The Ishtar must die. That is all.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
647
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Posted - 2014.11.28 03:05:36 -
[52] - Quote
The question is: how much does the Ishtar need to be nerfed so that it is neither useless nor OP.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3969
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Posted - 2014.11.28 03:09:12 -
[53] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:The question is: how much does the Ishtar need to be nerfed so that it is neither useless nor OP. No heavy or sentry drones.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
647
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Posted - 2014.11.28 03:12:46 -
[54] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:The question is: how much does the Ishtar need to be nerfed so that it is neither useless nor OP. No heavy or sentry drones.
This would extend to the Vexor as well? So would BC's be able to use heavies and sentries?
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3969
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Posted - 2014.11.28 03:15:28 -
[55] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:This would extend to the Vexor as well? So would BC's be able to use heavies and sentries? I think all ships aside from battlecruisers and battleships should be restricted to light and medium drones. No sentries and definitely no Geckos.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
934
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Posted - 2014.11.28 08:18:01 -
[56] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:The question is: how much does the Ishtar need to be nerfed so that it is neither useless nor OP.
I think -25 drone mb & -75m3 drone bay would be a good start.
Thats basically making it 20% worse across the board, which might just be enough without looking at doing anything radical like changing what weapon systems it uses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
529
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Posted - 2014.11.28 08:35:52 -
[57] - Quote
Capqu wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:The question is: how much does the Ishtar need to be nerfed so that it is neither useless nor OP. I think -25 drone mb & -75m3 drone bay would be a good start. Thats basically making it 20% worse across the board, which might just be enough without looking at doing anything radical like changing what weapon systems it uses.
Drop the drone range bonus and hack the cpu down so they have to chose between range or damage.
I'd also nerf the capacitor slightly as it was left from a time when they were expected to fit guns, it's too stable.
Drop a mid to a low, force an armor tank.
Any combination of the above will work and will do no harm to the in your face brawler fits (which I quite like) |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
284
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Posted - 2014.11.28 10:49:52 -
[58] - Quote
Capqu wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Capqu wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Capqu wrote: Rails on a Tengu comfortably hit to 130km, Heavy missiles on the same ship will only hit to 88km and do significantly less applied damage at that range than the rails. That is without tracking or range mods for the rails, which the Heavies cannot even have. Not to mention the inherent disadvantage of delayed and destroyable [smartbombing] damage.
Careful what you're saying here unbonused medium rails dont project anywhere near as much damage at as much range as unbonused heavies do. nerf tengu? What? Thats just a straight up lie so okay. Unbonused ship used (Typhoon). Range: http://puu.sh/d7Wji/99ea7590a3.png Application: http://puu.sh/d7Wl7/e7a79f690c.png Target used was an Ishtar burning at 45 degrees. This is WITHOUT any tracking mods for the railguns [which the missiles cannot have], and they are already better at every range over 15km. Again, don't forget that missiles deal delayed, destroyable damage. im not getting that... update your eft you may be missing the 500% damage bonus fozzie fell down the stairs and tripped over his keyboard and accidentally added a few patches back
Put one web on the target and HMs suddenly outdamage rails from 0-62.9km, no matter how many tracking comps you pile on, while having twice as much alpha and selectable damage.
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Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
936
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Posted - 2014.11.28 10:56:43 -
[59] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Put one web on the target and HMs suddenly outdamage rails from 0-62.9km, no matter how many tracking comps you pile on, while having twice as much alpha and selectable damage.
try loading higher dps ammo and putting down the crack, there is a reason tengus are flown with rails exclusively in fleet pvp and it's not because noone has heavies trained
not to mention even if what you said was true [it isn't] then you have to bare in mind that it is not possible to keep huiginns alive vs railgus and you end up using the weaponsystem that doesn't require stupid amounts of nursing to deal reasonable dps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPntjTPWgKE
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
487
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Posted - 2014.11.28 11:22:25 -
[60] - Quote
King Fu Hostile wrote: Put one web on the target and HMs suddenly outdamage rails from 0-62.9km, no matter how many tracking comps you pile on, while having twice as much alpha and selectable damage.
Oh gawd, that is so wrong on so many levels, I don't even..
That is like saying that long range turrets and missile are only to be used in scram range. Do you even ships at all?
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