Nerfing sentries to fix one ship makes about as much sense as nerfing HML's to fix Drakes. Just my thought on that last part...

Oh and I think 250 rails are fairly reasonable in the context of all weapon systems (maybe lose ~5% damage and tracking), but they are imbalanced within their own weapon class.

Oh and I think 250 rails are fairly reasonable in the context of all weapon systems (maybe lose ~5% damage and tracking), but they are imbalanced within their own weapon class.

Lastly, before I walk away from the computer (I swear, I'll do it!), I'll mention that I don't see much complaining about the heavy drone ishtar, despite its epic raw DPS.

If ishtar loses a sentry, should it lose a heavy drone as well?

they do blaster dps basically but way better range

I thought of that as well, and I'm not entirely sure whether or not I agree with you. But I think the comparison of projection is evidence enough that a tracking nerf is needed.

Perhaps a combined slight nerf to sentry tracking, outright removal of the ishtar's sentry tracking bonus, and a decrease in drone bay to 250m3 (giving it less ability to field variety, and less resistance to drone smartbombing) would work well in conjunction for a more balanced ship?

Sentry drones need to be outright removed or redesigned. Every drone ship doctrine uses sentries over any other drone except fighter bombers. If drones had to chase targets we wouldn't even be discussing ishtars.

Honestly amazed that there were 0 changes to any of the above at all in rhea. Hopefully not a sign of (the lack) of things to come.

[quote=J A Aloysiusz][quote=scorchlikeshiswhiskey]

Sentry drones need to be outright removed or redesigned. Every drone ship doctrine uses sentries over any other drone except fighter bombers. If drones had to chase targets we wouldn't even be discussing ishtars.

These things need changes, and I think most of the community knows it.

I'm tired of **** posting in all the meaningless "balance" threads with irrelevant changes and just want to see some actual meaningful changes for once in my goddamn life.

The above sentiment (at least in my mind) also applies to adding content and paradigm shifts for:

• Incarna
• Capital Ships
• PI

And yet we're still making rant topics about the same old ship / module balancing drama that has been happening for the last 11 years....

[quote=Warde Guildencrantz]

Rails on a Tengu comfortably hit to 130km, Heavy missiles on the same ship will only hit to 88km and do significantly less applied damage at that range than the rails. That is without tracking or range mods for the rails, which the Heavies cannot even have. Not to mention the inherent disadvantage of delayed and destroyable [smartbombing] damage.

If we want to fix the Ishtar in a fashionable manner I'd suggest reducing the bandwitch to 50mb and change it's boni to medium-drones and armor-tank. Remove one med and give it an additional low slot.

Gila says Hi!
If you do this to it either the Ishtar or the Gila become never used.

Hey if we are scaling back Ishtar DPS to match the DPS of other HACs, I presume we also get the option to strap our drones to the sides of our ships so they are protected by our shields and armor?

Cause same dps, lower HP, but still having killable weapon systems seems a bit odd.


Why can't I just toss my sentries into racks on the side of my ship? Seems an acceptable compromise to all the "NERF DPS NOW!" going on in this thread.

Because, you know, it's impossible to deploy another drone.

That argument is tired. Drones have been killable forever, yet the Ishtar is far and away the best and most widely used HAC.

CLEARLY your argument doesn't hold up to balance. I don't understand why this is difficult for you to see. Seriously.

+1 to appropriate drone bonuses. Cruisers get medium, BS get large, Frigs get small. It's really not that hard.

The ones that were not were choosing to compare it to gun ships and cut back all the stats until they matced the other gun HAC's, so I was poking fun at the observation that if you want to cut it back to exact gun HAC stats, then it should be able to mount its weapon systems in a non vulnerable state, like gun HAC's.

The problem with sentris is specifically the Ishtar. It is capable of battleship level dps without the drawbacks of being a battleship. If it had the drawbacks of being a battleship, it wouldn't be as overpowering because it could be countered. Simply decrease the number of sentries it can use to 4 and it wouldn't be as overpowering. That would trim it's dps down by 20%


Truth be told I was comparing a Dominix 3 slot armor tank vs an Ishtar with a 3 slot shield tank a few days ago. The Ishtar would get a stronger tank (less buffer) than the dominix, with the same dps with sentries, and more with heavy drones, the only thing that the Ishtar might not beat the Dominix with is the effective range of the drones. Something doesn't seem right there in my opinion. In almost forms of context the Ishtar is superior to the Dominix and that is a problem rooted in the fact it has battleship level dps due to that 5th sentry. The Dominix can microjump away and then make the Ishtar go boom with enough of a fit, but at close range hands down the Ishtar wins (doing more drone dps via heavy drones than the Dominix). With 4 Warden 2's in this fit it can have 493 Drone dps. Granted it has 0 gun dps, but truth be told it doesn't need gun dps because it's close range dps is 599. And remember that is with 4 sentry drones, not the 5 that it is capable now (748 close, 616 far range) Sounds way more desirable than a Dominix to me considering its signature.

I see this suggested often, and I agree with it, but I think it's a band-aid solution that doesn't solve a deeper problem. The problem isn't so much the Ishtar, but in sentry drones themselves. Fix sentry drones and people will still use and adore the Ishtar, and it won't need any sort of nerf.

corax is an inferior talwar, there's really no reason for it to be in the game

nighthawk has a bizzare slot layout, horrible fitting, and uses missiles without having a rapid light bonus

dragoons are just terrible, literally nobody thinks they're good

prophecy's a worse myrmidon, it's just a big slow garbageheap of a ship that does worse damage than most cruisers

Isn't a Corax a little better against frigs though?