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Christina Vallentine
Caldari
Tau Ceti Global Production
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.10.09 05:07:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Christina Vallentine on 09/10/2006 05:08:37
I just saw this post now, and you know what. It is one of the first posts I have seen that didn't make me feel like I should just train and not even bother to log in for the next few months because there is nothing I can do but suck around all of you vets. You guys with your un-question marked avatars might not understand this, but this game is very intimidating at first. I have had 3 friends come to play this game because I asked them to try it out. They all left after reading these forums and getting discouraged and intimidated. >_< so thank you for being cool Rells, I appreciate it.
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Soporo
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Posted - 2006.10.09 06:11:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Soporo on 09/10/2006 06:12:18
*Nods* /signed
Also...
 Quote:
this is really just a long care bear loving, newbie hugging, pirate bashing, frigate obsessed post.
******s up* Tell us how you REALLLLY feel sometime. 
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Rells
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.10.09 19:02:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Illistar DeathWing
I would love to go to one of these, but right now I'm struggling to get enough money to buy skill books let alone blow 5 mil for a few hours course. You have to relise that to new people that is alot of money. On top of that you want them to take many pre-req courses to get into the one they want.
Well you are probably going about making money the wrong way. 5 mil can be made in a couple of weeks even by a total newbie. Come talk to us for advice on this. As for the prerequisite courses, they are necessary. Believe me when I say we will have you busy for 5 to 9 hours and you will feel like you are "drinking from a firehose" as one of my instructors put it.
Originally by: Christina Vallentine
Edited by: Christina Vallentine on 09/10/2006 05:08:37
I just saw this post now, and you know what. It is one of the first posts I have seen that didn't make me feel like I should just train and not even bother to log in for the next few months because there is nothing I can do but suck around all of you vets. You guys with your un-question marked avatars might not understand this, but this game is very intimidating at first. I have had 3 friends come to play this game because I asked them to try it out. They all left after reading these forums and getting discouraged and intimidated. >_< so thank you for being cool Rells, I appreciate it.
My pleasure. I hope it helps. Join our channel AU_PVP_UNIVERSITY if you have more questions.
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Rells
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.10.09 19:03:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Soporo
Edited by: Soporo on 09/10/2006 06:12:18
*Nods* /signed
Also...
Quote:
this is really just a long care bear loving, newbie hugging, pirate bashing, frigate obsessed post.
******s up* Tell us how you REALLLLY feel sometime.
There are very few people (amoung those that like or dislike me) that would call me a carebear. The posts do get a laugh from my corporation members though. 
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Novan Leon
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Posted - 2006.10.09 21:15:00 -
[95]
Great informational post.
I need to come over to Syndicate and try out my T1 drone frigate against your alumni.
*T1 drone frigate config still in process*
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zeKzn
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2006.10.09 21:35:00 -
[96]
wrong forum on which to ask, yes, but are students required to have a mic and/or talk on vent or just listen?
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Itty-Bitty Crow <3 |
Beor0d
Congregatio
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Posted - 2006.10.09 22:02:00 -
[97]
I like the post, shows up that you can survive and have some fun in pvp even if you are not 10 mill + SP char or whatever :)
I like the idea of recruiting players for pvp. Never heared of that
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Mining makes mad |
Rells
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.10.09 22:23:00 -
[98]
Originally by: zeKzn
wrong forum on which to ask, yes, but are students required to have a mic and/or talk on vent or just listen?
Havign a Mic is good but you at LEAST need to be able to hear.
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Gloria Stitz
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Posted - 2006.10.09 22:30:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: zeKzn
wrong forum on which to ask, yes, but are students required to have a mic and/or talk on vent or just listen?
Havign a Mic is good but you at LEAST need to be able to hear.
Discrimination against deaf people????
Even in Iceland thats illegal
only kidding 
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murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.09 23:32:00 -
[100]
So I have a question Rells-
What sort of training is available from AU that will allow a "noob" player/character to compete directly with older more experienced players flying T2 fitted ships, HACs etc. Explain to me how SP and ISK are a non-factor for the majority of PVP engagements in Eve.
Enlighten me as to the proper training and combat techniques that will allow players to engage targets of superior size and firepower and still come out ahead given an equal number of opponents on each side.
It doesn't seem to me that you're teaching sustainable long term tactics and techniques that can be employed outside of a 10 man ECM Frigate gang. In my opinion you come off like a used car salesman. For those that don't know any better and who can't tell the difference I'm sure your customers are amazed and astounded with the results you can achieve with an experienced fleet commander and what basically amounts to a swarm of oversized drones with which to attack a target.
Because I said so...
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Rells
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.10.10 01:36:00 -
[101]
Of course this guy is not being serious and actually just trying to be sarcastic but dont let folk like them get you down. Lets answer him just for fun. 
Originally by: murder one
So I have a question Rells-
What sort of training is available from AU that will allow a "noob" player/character to compete directly with older more experienced players flying T2 fitted ships, HACs etc. Explain to me how SP and ISK are a non-factor for the majority of PVP engagements in Eve.
Player knowledge is the key to this game. You could take a group of 5 frigates vs 5 other frigates and the people that will come out on top will be those with training in pvp that know how to fit, fly and use their ships properly. Its the difference between a 10 man frig gang that blows up the dominix and the 10 man frig gang that gets munched by the same dominix. What you have trained up means nothing if you dont know how to use it. I couldnt possibly count the number of idiotic setups I have seen in the game for a starters. Interceptors with warp core stabs, Amarr ships using projectile guns, and the old favorite suicide ship ... "a fast frig with a microwarp and warp disruptor"
The problem with eve is that there are a lot of "older" players that would love to havethe new players be their cannon fodder waterboys and have no desire to learn. There are also a lot of o"older" players that have been around a year or two and just plain have no clue. How many smartbombers have come after an agony gang? Answer 15. How many have died? Answer 14 (one lived only because a mistake was made and he was stabbed to the wazu). All of these people were battleship pilots with lots of "experience" that didnt have the brains to realize that their tactic was futile.
Originally by: murder one
Enlighten me as to the proper training and combat techniques that will allow players to engage targets of superior size and firepower and still come out ahead given an equal number of opponents on each side.
OK. www.agony-unleashed.com I think there is a free PVP-BASIC slot in about a month. Im a business man. I train people to fight people. Im not giving away the info for free.
Originally by: murder one
It doesn't seem to me that you're teaching sustainable long term tactics and techniques that can be employed outside of a 10 man ECM Frigate gang.
Sustainable? What isnt sustainable about flying tech 1 frigs and destroyers? At any rate you make a classic mistake, well I doubt YOU do but you want your opponets to. You advocate that an engagement is only "real" if its 15 to 15 or 5 to 5 or something like that. That is rubbish. In a combat situation, you pick the engagements you can win and decline those you cant win. Combat isnt fair and I doubt many of my clients are interested in beign "fair" with the pirates or the opposing alliance.
Originally by: murder one
In my opinion you come off like a used car salesman.
LOL ...
Originally by: murder one
For those that don't know any better and who can't tell the difference I'm sure your customers are amazed and astounded with the results you can achieve with an experienced fleet commander and what basically amounts to a swarm of oversized drones with which to attack a target.
I train them. I dont toss them in a frig, say do what I say, and fly off. They get 5 hours of instruction and often more than 7 hours wolfpack time. They ask questions, get answers, learn why and what and where of combat. They leave the course much much more capable than they came. Any PVP-WOLFPACKS graduate can execute maneuvers with gangs that will tear pirates to ribbons and teach enemies that a frigate / destroyer gang is to be feared, not laughed at.
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Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.10 01:42:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Gloria Stitz
Originally by: Rells
Originally by: zeKzn
wrong forum on which to ask, yes, but are students required to have a mic and/or talk on vent or just listen?
Havign a Mic is good but you at LEAST need to be able to hear.
Discrimination against deaf people????
Even in Iceland thats illegal
only kidding
Yeah, I call primaries in braille. Get with the times Rells.
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murder one
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.10 05:39:00 -
[103]
Just to reply to your reply Rells (I'm not going to waste everyone's time re-quoting everything) -
I guess I came off a little harsh, but I think that you should also educate new players about the realities of "end-game" PVP, not just what you can do using a limited SP set and the minimum of equipment. They need to understand that there *isn't* a viable substitute for SP, ISK and experience, all other factors (manpower) being equal.
I totally agree with picking your battles, and I also agree that there are plenty of people out there with absolutely *horrible* setups. I'm happy to see that you're taking an interest in new players well beings, if at a price, but I think it would be more genuine if you'd temper your amazing tales of PVP dominance with some information concerning the realistic limitations of what you can and can't do.
You keep mentioning your groups are killing battleships. Ok, that's fine, but any experienced PVPer isn't particularly impressed with that since they understand the game mechanics and therefore realize how the current game balance can be horribly exploited to make killing a BS with a bunch of Frigs a veritable cakewalk. What if the 15 man Frig gang encountered a nice 6 man cruiser gang? Of course you'd probably never engage such a target as I'm sure you'd realize that there is a very good chance you might get shredded and ruin your kill record.
All I'm saying is that you paint too good of a picture to people who don't even have enough information to start asking the right questions. So ya, ends up sounding like you're selling snake oil.
Because I said so...
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Miss Overlord
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2006.10.10 05:43:00 -
[104]
agony do their thing of course a 6 man cruiser gang would probably roaster toaster a 15 man noobie PVP frig gang then again thats the way the game works so its all moot pretty much
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Xs 142
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Posted - 2006.10.10 07:08:00 -
[105]
Ohh, the booksmart man is making me feel jiggly in the brainbox!
Thank you.
Originally by: Oveur
Eternally yours,
The other dumbass
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Novan Leon
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Posted - 2006.10.10 13:43:00 -
[106]
Originally by: murder one
Just to reply to your reply Rells (I'm not going to waste everyone's time re-quoting everything) -
I guess I came off a little harsh, but I think that you should also educate new players about the realities of "end-game" PVP, not just what you can do using a limited SP set and the minimum of equipment. They need to understand that there *isn't* a viable substitute for SP, ISK and experience, all other factors (manpower) being equal.
I totally agree with picking your battles, and I also agree that there are plenty of people out there with absolutely *horrible* setups. I'm happy to see that you're taking an interest in new players well beings, if at a price, but I think it would be more genuine if you'd temper your amazing tales of PVP dominance with some information concerning the realistic limitations of what you can and can't do.
You keep mentioning your groups are killing battleships. Ok, that's fine, but any experienced PVPer isn't particularly impressed with that since they understand the game mechanics and therefore realize how the current game balance can be horribly exploited to make killing a BS with a bunch of Frigs a veritable cakewalk. What if the 15 man Frig gang encountered a nice 6 man cruiser gang? Of course you'd probably never engage such a target as I'm sure you'd realize that there is a very good chance you might get shredded and ruin your kill record.
All I'm saying is that you paint too good of a picture to people who don't even have enough information to start asking the right questions. So ya, ends up sounding like you're selling snake oil.
This is one of the reasons the OP sounds like a recruiting advertisement, it sounds too good to be true, especially for us that understand the basic principle of warfare in EVE. Yes, frigates are fun to fly and can be used effectively in groups against much larger targets, but I think maybe you're building them up to sound like more than they are.
Do you offer any classes on cruiser or battleship warfare?
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Mark Weston
Caldari
The Graduates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.10 14:07:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Mark Weston on 10/10/2006 14:07:12
Originally by: Novan Leon
This is one of the reasons the OP sounds like a recruiting advertisement, it sounds too good to be true, especially for us that understand the basic principle of warfare in EVE. Yes, frigates are fun to fly and can be used effectively in groups against much larger targets, but I think maybe you're building them up to sound like more than they are.
The problem is that it's easy for newer players to feel helpless in the face of high SP characters and tech2 kit. The OP (and AUs courses) are a really valuable counterpoint to that atitude (often reinforced by those "that understand the basic principle of warfare in EVE"). The new PvPer in EVE can have fun and can win fights.
New to EVE? Join channel: "Eve University" or read here |
KIATolon
Black Omega Security
The OSS
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Posted - 2006.10.10 14:54:00 -
[108]
Rells, great post and you know I have a lot of respect for you but I strongly disagree with what you think about frig tackling.
If you tackle enough in a rifter then you learn how to stay alive, and when you can stay alive in a rifter whilst tackling then you'll find have overcome a huge hurdle in pvp.
1) losing ships wont be an issue
2) you wont panic because your screen lights up red (most decent tacklers are getting shot at by half the fleet).
You have your way of teaching I guess, and others have theirs - but please dont dismiss other people as wrong.
The best pvpers in omega are almost all, the best frigate pilots... they got that way by learning how to tackle... now I know that judging your students is not necessarily a fair comparison but I've faught 30 members of your corp with 10 of ours whilst fighting 8 bs/hacs at the same time (you warped in on us :( ) and won... because our frig pilots are generally unshakeable and tough to kill.
btw "I" dont count, I die whenever I get into a frig, even if it's docked :(
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Novan Leon
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Posted - 2006.10.10 17:02:00 -
[109]
Originally by: KIATolon
Rells, great post and you know I have a lot of respect for you but I strongly disagree with what you think about frig tackling.
If you tackle enough in a rifter then you learn how to stay alive, and when you can stay alive in a rifter whilst tackling then you'll find have overcome a huge hurdle in pvp.
1) losing ships wont be an issue
2) you wont panic because your screen lights up red (most decent tacklers are getting shot at by half the fleet).
You have your way of teaching I guess, and others have theirs - but please dont dismiss other people as wrong.
The best pvpers in omega are almost all, the best frigate pilots... they got that way by learning how to tackle... now I know that judging your students is not necessarily a fair comparison but I've faught 30 members of your corp with 10 of ours whilst fighting 8 bs/hacs at the same time (you warped in on us :( ) and won... because our frig pilots are generally unshakeable and tough to kill.
btw "I" dont count, I die whenever I get into a frig, even if it's docked :(
10 frigates vs 8 battleships/heavy assault cruisters + 22 other and the 10 frigates won? 
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Cipher7
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.10.10 17:13:00 -
[110]
I signed up for a class and I'm happy I did.
Look.
PvP is mainly about attitude and conditioning. You need a tough mental attitude, and you need to undock with the mindset that you'll be docking in a pod (or as a clone.)
I go out there every chance I get.
It's not just for the pleasure.
Each time I go out, I get more desensitized. I used to freeze up when I saw flashy red, now it's just another indicator.
As you learn, your confidence goes up, your mental toughness goes up.
It's almost irrelevant whether the teacher is a good PVPer or not. Just getting a number of new players together in a gang, in ships they intent to lose, into lowsec....that's what really empowers the new player.
Every new player should be taking these classes, or similar classes.
Every new player should be in some kind of Academy or University or some kind of PVP intro class, just for the confidence that comes from having fired your guns at someone in anger.
Flying a cheap frigate like a condor or slasher or atron or executioner, as a tackler, with low sp clone, is the cheapest and best way to learn PVP bar none.
Those small ships are so fast, you just stick an afterburner on em and they haul arse, they're like mini-interceptors.
I flew my first battle in a Slasher vs pirates, in fact that Slasher survived 3 battles, then I had about another half dozen battles in a Rifter before I lost it.
It was fun and educational and didn't cost me anything (the frigs were free.)
IMHO every new player should take that route.
Go. Take the classes. Sign up for academy corps. Tackle tackle tackle. Lose a few ships. Lose a clone or two. That's how you learn.
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Sinnbad Mayhem
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Posted - 2006.10.10 17:56:00 -
[111]
Excellent suggestions but I have a couple suggestions and would like share my noob experience in PVP:
1. MWD on Fast Frigs is not useless. It is excellent for travel time and tackling, and making bookmarks for fleet. You want your tacklers to get to you fast especially without BMs in hostile space.
In my limited but somewhat successful profession as tackler/bait I have enjoyed watching T2 fitted ships die as my 2,8K m/s tackler got on them quick. If setup correctly, you can live long enough for your firepower to do the job.
But if my ship dies, meh, its 250k and mods fitted from level 1 agents. No big deal.
If more people got in gangs in low sec and just lived a little, PVP would not be the mystery that it seems to some.
It really is not hard and hope more noobs like me try it. |
Beringe
Raptus Regaliter
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Posted - 2006.10.10 18:25:00 -
[112]
There's mixed good and bad advice in this thread.
What I worry, both with Rells and his detractors, is that there are a lot of people out there that are going to teach newbies the "right" way to PVP, and discount completely the power of originality, ingenuity and surprise.
It *is* good sometimes to learn by trial and error, because you just might find out something that nobody else thought of - or better still, find your own, preferred way of fighting.
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"Never underestimate the power of language."
--Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles-- |
Gobo
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2006.11.09 03:12:00 -
[113]
PvP training sounds like a cool idea, but I imagine it would be too expensive for the people who really need it.
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Currently flying Brutix. |
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