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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.09.09 14:04:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 09/09/2006 14:08:35
 Originally by: c0rn1
Why do we - as players - have to look for a solution in those cases when CCP is incapable of doing their job right?
Even 1vs1 don't work properly and people can't meet it with honor. Why do you think it would work with 100vs100?
In an ideal world this whole lag problem wouldn't exist. Alliances could duke it out at maximum fleet capacity and 300 vs 300 battles would be the highlight of the week.
However the reality is that engagments with over a certain level of pilots is not possible (lets say that the number is 100 vs 100 .... for arguments sake).
I am sure CCP is looking into this problem, or at least I hope they are. How long will it take to fix? I have no idea...
In the meantime you gotta work with what you have. And what we have is a game where there is already a *lag* limit on the amount of pilots you can sensibly have in the same system fighting eachother.
When one plays a game of chess/pool/cards there are no inbuilt rules, only those that the players impose on themselves.
Why can't EVE be the same.. at least until the server loads can be increased by better hardware.
In-game mechanics do not need to be the limiting factor for all our actions.
Take MC for example, were there any in-game mechanics helping them to provide mercenary services? Yet they still managed to come up with an honorable viable profession.
Killboards are another example, they are not provided in-game yet they are an integral part of everyday life as an out of game resource.
There is no reason why EVE players cannot outsource their enjoyment of intergalactic warfare by providing an out of game famework whereby there are some codes of conduct for large engagements.. that is until CCP improve the lag situation.
Ofc the big alliances could simply continue to bang their heads against the brick wall of lag and continue to pointlessly field fleets of up to 300 pilots... but is it fun?
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Apocalypsee
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.09 14:12:00 -
[62]
Maybe we could all take our 400+ ppl and have each group jump in 1 person and duke it out 1on1 for the regions \o/ and then do it all over the next day The rest of the gang can be moral support
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Noluck Ned
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.09 14:17:00 -
[63]
What an experience.
I crawled to bed at 5 Am.
What can I say that has not been said above?
I somehow survived and got a few kills but it is imposible to say I owe it to my skill as a player. It was the luck of the draw nothing more. I crashed and relogged 3 times in the process. All you can do is hit the f keys whenever you have something locked.
Originally by: Posidrive
So technically being a pirate is't quite as easy as I thought after reading this guide.
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Ediz Daxx
FinFleet
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.09 14:22:00 -
[64]
I managed to get a maulus kill in my BS. 
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.09.09 14:24:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Apocalypsee
Maybe we could all take our 400+ ppl and have each group jump in 1 person and duke it out 1on1 for the regions \o/ and then do it all over the next day The rest of the gang can be moral support
no need to take the ****... 
Lets say LV and D2 are gonna have an engagement... I'm gonna make an educated guess here and say that D2 and LV are of similar calibre militarily speaking.
Now lets say you were vying over a particular region.. lets say Geminate.
You both mobilise and send in the troops; we are looking at 300+ pilots per side being mobilised to conquer geminate.
A D2 POS goes up.
The scene is set for a battle....
As it stands LV and D2 are gonna throw everything they have at this engagement... creating a ~ 300 vs 300 lagfest. There is no clear victor, there is hardly any skill involved and pilots made a stupid amount of jumps to watch their screens turn black and end up in pods. Maybe one side will be victorious.... but the big looser here is fun.
Now lets say your battle was limited to 100 vs 100 or if it takes place at the defenders POS then you could cut that to 100 vs 50 (for the defender). You could quite possibly have a good fight were skill was the determining factor not lag, a loss in a non-laggy environment where FC skill/pilot skill was the main factor would give one side a huge morale boost.. and is this not the main reason why alliances stop fighting loss of morale?? If for example D2 lost all their engagments at the capped limit of 100.. they might think hmm these LV boys are just better than us.... (hypothetical scenario... just an example)
K all this sounds pretty contrived... but my point is that its better than the alternative, a quagmire of lag.
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Ediz Daxx
FinFleet
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.09 14:29:00 -
[66]
Whats Nez talking about?
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.09.09 14:34:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Ediz Daxx
Whats Nez talking about?
.. obviously nothing .. 
I'll save it for the next "OMGblobLAGfest couldn't activate any modules" thread
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Fred0
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.09 14:43:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Fred0 on 09/09/2006 14:44:28
Nez. what you are saying is bs. It reduces the scope of this game into something not worth playing imho. Staged number battles or CCP doing their job properly and supporting the game they've created. Hmmm...
If this game was the caldari championships or somekinda variety on that I would not bother. The lure of EVE is exactly what CCP are failing to handle now.
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Stockarian
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.09 14:47:00 -
[69]
Lag sucks. Please fix it CCP. Thank you.
Athelas Loraiel > "This isn't a fleet, we're only the appetizer."
Cheers, Stock
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.09.09 14:48:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Fred0
Nez. what you are saying is bs. It reduces the scope of this game into something not worth playing imho. Staged number battles or CCP doing their job properly and supporting the game they've created. Hmmm...
If this game was the caldari championships or somekinda variety on that I would not bother. The lure of EVE is exactly what CCP are failing to handle now.
K .. I take it from your post that you are quite happy to wait for CCP to solve the latency problem on their servers.
You must have a lot of patience. All I can say is the following..
Soon(tm)
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Light Darkness
Seraphin Technologies
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.09.09 14:51:00 -
[71]
To the old times (SA vs CA)we fought near everyday 100-150 against 100-150.
There was no problem. For nobody. But there we got also a max online count with around 12ooo player.
So i think CCP dont shoudl concentrate on new features in eve. They should concentrate on a "better" server or server code.
First CCP should "save" the 32k players they want to play eve. Then we can look for new features.
Like c0rn1 sayed. EvE is a "blob" game and CCP cant ignore that.
/LD
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-V-eritas Immortalis Killboard
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Berneh
TunDraGon
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Posted - 2006.09.09 14:54:00 -
[72]
ccp wins again, because you guys need to grind to regain losses just to pass the time waiting on the failed petition system.
Bern
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Raste
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.09 14:59:00 -
[73]
canfleet: http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6273/goontardedck7.jpg
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.09.09 14:59:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 09/09/2006 15:00:50
Originally by: Light Darkness
To the old times (SA vs CA)we fought near everyday 100-150 against 100-150.
There was no problem. For nobody. But there we got also a max online count with around 12ooo player.
.. right but the battle which this thread is about contained..... "215 in the gang and on the other side ~200-220 GOONS + RA", which was unplayable.
Wouldn't it be nice to emulate the 'good old' days and limit engagements to the 100 vs 100 mark or thereabouts?
With the increased player base and ever increasing fleet sizes, the problem is only going to get worse and worse.... its like a vicious circle. One that I don't think any hardware can ever keep up with.
Even if CCP bring in new hardware the big alliances are just gonna keep pushing the limits of playability. With the current mentality that alliances have (i.e always bring superior numbers) it is quite possible there could never be a lag free fight again...
And that is a scary thought..
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Raste
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.09 15:04:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Nez Perces
.. right but the battle which this thread is about contained..... "215 in the gang and on the other side ~200-220 GOONS", which was unplayable.
Those numbers are off. By the time gf finally jumped there were a combined 330ish between goons, lv/v and russians.
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Trishtan DeMore
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2006.09.09 15:06:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Trishtan DeMore on 09/09/2006 15:06:47
Originally by: Nez Perces
.. right but the battle which this thread is about contained..... "215 in the gang and on the other side ~200-220 GOONS + RA", which was unplayable.
Wouldn't it be nice to emulate the 'good old' days and limit engagements to the 100 vs 100 mark or thereabouts?
With the increased player base and ever increasing fleet sizes, the problem is only going to get worse and worse.... its like a vicious circle. One that I don't think any hardware can ever keep up with.
Even if CCP bring in new hardware the big alliances are just gonna keep pushing the limits of playability. With the current mentality that alliances have (i.e always bring superior numbers) it is quite possible there could never be a lag free fight again...
And that is a scary thought..
This is a massively MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME.
MASSIVE = MASS = more than 50
MUTLIPLAYER = alot of players simultaneously
2 years ago 150 vs 150 were not a big issue. and code or game should evolve which should bring us to 300vs300 at least
but eve is degenerating to 50vs50 max right now and with additional 5k players u cant even dare to go for a 20vs20.
are you kidding me? read what you are writing and then look if u r in the right game. If I wanna play 20vs20 I place Battlefield 2 not Eve-online.
regards
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.09.09 15:10:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Raste
Those numbers are off. By the time gf finally jumped there were a combined 330ish between goons, lv/v and russians.
well I actually quoted LightDarkness' original post with the numbers. Those were the ones given at the start of the thread.
Nevertheless it was probably good that the numbers were actually lower.. imagine what it would have been like with larger numbers..
330 all in is still 165 vs 165... which it appears is still above the threshold of playability in EVE atm.
Its sad but true. 
So what to do about it..?
You can wait for CCP to fix what is quite possibly an unfixable problem (good luck with that) or... you can work around the problem with an inter-alliance code of conduct for large engagements.
I guess thats the point I'm trying to make. 
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.09.09 15:14:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Trishtan DeMore
This is a massively MULTIPLAYER ONLINE GAME.
MASSIVE = MASS = more than 50
MUTLIPLAYER = alot of players simultaneously
2 years ago 150 vs 150 were not a big issue. and code or game should evolve which should bring us to 300vs300 at least
One would think so.. but its obviously not the case. 
And don't blame me  .. I didnt code the game or buy the hardware !!
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Berneh
TunDraGon
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Posted - 2006.09.09 15:41:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Berneh on 09/09/2006 15:41:04
if you could take 150 men to a 50 man fight with a 100% chance of success to your men wouldnt you do it ?
CCP needs to keep up with the times, bigger player base means bigger alliances, the biggest alliances would actually find it quite hard to get hold of 100 men nowadays, but if a call goes out 250 can respond easily.
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NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2006.09.09 15:42:00 -
[80]
Just keep crashing the server every night until it starts to hurt their wallets. That *might* get their attention, but they are probably too busy working on opening up more regions, and adding more PVE code to further tax the servers.
FREEE is Recruiting |
Light Darkness
Seraphin Technologies
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.09.09 16:02:00 -
[81]
Specially to Nez Percess....
As EvE started we was max 12ooo players online = 150 vs 150 was nice to fight
NOW
EvE have over 32ooo player online and you are NOT ABLE to fight over 50 vs 50.
So i think to hold the ballance CCP dont should get more players online. They should get a better (more stabile) server for the guy they already pay for it.
And dont forget:
12ooo = over 100 vs 100 good
32ooo = over 200 vs 200 bad
50ooo = over 350 vs 350 dreams
Regards
/LD
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-V-eritas Immortalis Killboard
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Raste
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.09 16:07:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Nez Perces
You can wait for CCP to fix what is quite possibly an unfixable problem (good luck with that) or... you can work around the problem with an inter-alliance code of conduct for large engagements.
I guess thats the point I'm trying to make.
While I see your point, I don't personally like this idea even in principal. On top of that, you have to count on an opponent who would honor such an agreement. During recent battles we moved the bulk of our fleet out of system to try to reduce lag on several occassions.
Guess what our opponents did:
a) Followed suit to make things fair
b) Started 5 threads on eve-o proclaiming an amazing victory against 10,000 to 500 odds
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Max Teranous
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.09.09 16:34:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Raste
Canfleet
Nice. I'm sure i've seen that Claw fitting before 
Max
--------------------
Too noob for an MC sig |
Happydayz
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.09 17:10:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Nez Perces
Yes it would. However isn't the bias towards the older of the two groups heavy already? The older group can field capital ships, techII guns etc.... The younger group in most cases wouldn't stand a chance anyhow.. unless the older group screws up or has a crap FC.
Well yeah. That's sort of why newer players need to bring in superior numbers in order to make up the skillpoint deficit.
Unless you want to engage in some*****amamy math where we each compute relative skill points and ships against each other and derive the exact number of ships each side is allowed to bring in order to have a "fair" fight. But come on, that's just silly.
As it stands now if people are fighting over actual territory each side can't be blamed for bringing everything and the kitchen sink
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HapeMask
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Posted - 2006.09.09 17:46:00 -
[85]
I've seen coalition players reply and RA players, but what about goonfleet? :D
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Bernardattic
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.09 17:48:00 -
[86]
Originally by: HapeMask
I've seen coalition players reply and RA players, but what about goonfleet? :D
they all went to burger king at once causing mcdonalds to go bankrupt within the hour.
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CitzNo 097864
Jita Bureau of Investigation
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Posted - 2006.09.09 18:13:00 -
[87]
Edited by: CitzNo 097864 on 09/09/2006 18:14:04
It's pretty clear that CCP doesn't care about us or the lag as long as we keep paying. We've been complaining for over a year now for a fix, and they give us titans. Who is going to actually use a titan anyway?
At least we Americans can threaten them with more global warming. I hear servers don't work well underwater. 
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Nez Perces
Amarr
Black Spot.
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Posted - 2006.09.09 18:23:00 -
[88]
Originally by: CitzNo 097864
It's pretty clear that CCP doesn't care about us or the lag as long as we keep paying. We've been complaining for over a year now for a fix, and they give us titans. Who is going to actually use a titan anyway?
heh... the funny thing is that the EVE player base had been gagging for Titans since forever, before lag was really an issue (playerbase was not really high enough).
I'd hate to be a CCP decision maker, they have to balance out introducing new content (low cost feature) with increasing the player base (make more money) with reducing lag (high cost feature needing new hardware and possibly extensive re-coding).
Now Titans are finally here... I doubt anybody would field one, particularly not where it could have maximum effect i.e a big fleet battle where lag is the big killer.
Catch 22 anybody..
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Zafon
Caldari
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.09 18:24:00 -
[89]
Originally by: CitzNo 097864
Edited by: CitzNo 097864 on 09/09/2006 18:14:04
It's pretty clear that CCP doesn't care about us or the lag as long as we keep paying. We've been complaining for over a year now for a fix, and they give us titans. Who is going to actually use a titan anyway?
At least we Americans can threaten them with more global warming. I hear servers don't work well underwater.
Well, that would be bad for me, seeing as the servers are in London which is where I live
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Itzena
Amarr
OtakuDyne Corporation
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Posted - 2006.09.09 18:54:00 -
[90]
Originally by: HapeMask
I've seen coalition players reply and RA players, but what about goonfleet? :D
There are no goons.
Goodbye.
--
I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power...
I want us to be what we used to be. |
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