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Kalek Astroth Amarr The Electrocuted	Posted - 2006.09.09 11:49:00 - [1] Would like to know if a geddon may win in this 1 vs 1 fight at short range I tried to tank a blaster mega but its impossible , and if i go for a full damage setup (7 pulseII 3 HSII conflagration ) my dps is not enought to win that fight in time (gank = almost no tank) any clue?
Electric Cucumber Amarr Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.09.09 11:51:00 - [2] Hmm, ecm drones maybe.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.09 11:53:00 - [3] Trying to beat a mega at his own game is not recommended. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Harris	Posted - 2006.09.09 11:58:00 - [4] Stay out of his range or use ECM. I know he can run if you have distance but he also can't hit you. He's designed to get up close and personal, take that away and he's ineffectual.
vyperpit Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:00:00 - [5] Edited by: vyperpit on 09/09/2006 12:04:24 you will not iwn if fighting a similar skilled pilot! 1 b-thron vs 1 geddoe : b-thron wins 2 B-thron vs 2 geddon : b-throon again 3 B-thron vs 3 geddon : close 4 B-thron vs 4 geddon : geddeons win 5+ B-thron vs 5+ geddon : geddons win
Andreask14 Sensus Numinis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:01:00 - [6] Edited by: Andreask14 on 09/09/2006 12:03:04 A geddon has 0 chance against a blaster BS. Your only chance is to stay out of his range, which means you need a tackler, then again this tackler could just be in a BS himself and make sure the mega goes down. Amarrian ships are sooo horribly ill-concieved. edit: i am just glad that t2 ammo is the same for all races, so they could not possibly **** up these weapons for us amarrians also.
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:01:00 - [7] Originally by: Jim McGregor Trying to beat a mega at his own game is not recommended. :) "my pulsegeddon was smacked in the face at 2km range by a blasterthron. NURF THUM PLZKTHKX!" ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:02:00 - [8] Originally by: Andreask14 Amarrian ships are sooo horribly ill-concieved. actually, considering RP history of amarr, they suit fine in a fleet role. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Mjala	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:03:00 - [9] in my opinion are amarr ships, small gang/fleet ships. i realy dont know why everyone want his race ships to be uber at everything.
Agent2 Holtze Amarr Barracudas.	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:07:00 - [10] Edited by: Agent2 Holtze on 09/09/2006 12:08:16 7x Mega pulse or Dual due to cap usage 1x scram 2x webs 1x small rep (possible med rep can remember if it fits) 3x HS TII 3x 1600mm Rolled tungsten Conflag 4tw Posting and you!

inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:08:00 - [11] With players of equal skill in 1v1 and no EW... no. He dictates range so at best you'd get a draw if the fight didn't go his way. If both pilots are specifically fitting against each other, there'd also be the slight problem of an EM resist that pretty much neutralises any damage you're putting out at all. Of course you'd heavily tank kin/therm as well but you're not starting from the same resists, so you're going to have a harder time.
Andreask14 Sensus Numinis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:12:00 - [12] I dont care about the RP background. As you can see in this thread, you will need 2x webber, which means TWO OF YOUR THREE medslots, to even stand a chance against a mega, that will easily ECM you. Conclusion: A geddon has no chance in this scenario. The fact of the matter is that amarrian ships are out-gunned at close range by blasters, out-ranged by hybrids and missiles, and out-droned by all drone-ships. They are also out-ecmed, out-tanked and out-sped. There is NOTHING that lets amarr come out on-top.
Buraken v2 Amarr Amarr Defence Initiative	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:16:00 - [13] dual heavy pulse t2 with conflag and dual reps, can take down alot of blasterthrons, except them with t2 neutron ganks and 1600plates Quote: Mail from: Houvire Takaerne 2006.06.06 19:25 Our research has been fruity. If you're interested, I believe I have found what might be a banana in the corner of my office draw.
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Andreask14 I dont care about the RP background. As you can see in this thread, you will need 2x webber, which means TWO OF YOUR THREE medslots, to even stand a chance against a mega, that will easily ECM you. Conclusion: A geddon has no chance in this scenario. The fact of the matter is that amarrian ships are out-gunned at close range by blasters, out-ranged by hybrids and missiles, and out-droned by all drone-ships. They are also out-ecmed, out-tanked and out-sped. There is NOTHING that lets amarr come out on-top. Apart from your obnoxious drivel I'm curious as to how you conceive the arma to be more suspectible to ECM considering both ships can field the same amounts of heavy ecm drones. The medslots doesn't factor in at all when it comes to close range setups on these ships. And I must say I'm extremely shocked to see a pulsegeddon (close range) being outranged by hybrids (blasters whose even more closerange than pulse lasers and railguns which are long range guns), missiles that outrange just about anything but has other problems and aren't even the same weapon system and not to say the least it's outdone by droneships. I mean... really... what a great injustice it is to have a droneship, a ship specifically designed to handle drones, outdo a non-droneship. I can't understand how you can stand up to this... really! "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14)
Andreask14 Sensus Numinis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:24:00 - [15] Edited by: Andreask14 on 09/09/2006 12:23:44 It sure if funny to watch characters of other races deny the fact that amarrian ships and weapons are currently the most underpowerd in EvE. Really!
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:28:00 - [16] Originally by: Andreask14 Edited by: Andreask14 on 09/09/2006 12:23:44 It sure if funny to watch characters of other races deny the fact that amarrian ships and weapons are currently the most underpowerd in EvE. Really! Yes... especially when they did nothing of the sort and have characters fully maxed on Amarr. "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14)
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:32:00 - [17] Originally by: Andreask14 Edited by: Andreask14 on 09/09/2006 12:23:44 It sure if funny to watch characters of other races deny the fact that amarrian ships and weapons are currently the most underpowerd in EvE. Really! /me repeats himself for the nth time: amarr are not the problem. the problem is ECM and omni-tanks, as I have said like 100000 times before. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Andreask14 Sensus Numinis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:39:00 - [18] Amarr is the problem. The punisher, maller, apoc, prophecy and their t2 equivalents are useless ships. Their main feature is tanking, which is sooooo inferior to ganking and any Ew that it hurts my guts. The amarrian damage boats are OK, but suffer from ECM, EAN and the fact that medium range is neither webber range nor gate-camp range but is the range they fare best with t1 ammo.
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:44:00 - [19] Originally by: Andreask14 Amarr is the problem. The punisher, maller, apoc, prophecy and their t2 equivalents are useless ships. Their main feature is tanking, which is sooooo inferior to ganking and any Ew that it hurts my guts. The amarrian damage boats are OK, but suffer from ECM, EAN and the fact that medium range is neither webber range nor gate-camp range but is the range they fare best with t1 ammo. still things were so much better before the age of the omni-tank. Heck amarrian ships were perfect those times. but what changed then? oh yeah, the omni-tank. Amarr ships are just like amarrian philosophy (sp?): guant hulks of metal with lasers shooting. Turred lovin' ho's that rely on their tank and guns. however I must admit that MAYBE giving a bit more HP to amarr would be a positive change. Boosting their guns is opening an even more giant can of worms than balancing the omni-tanks imho. ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Scordite	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:45:00 - [20] Originally by: Andreask14 As you can see in this thread, you will need 2x webber, which means TWO OF YOUR THREE medslots, to even stand a chance against a mega Come on, think outside the box a little. Your short range weapons outrange his, if you dictate range, you win. You don't have the mids for dual web, so the solution is.. Heavy webber drones? ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.

KillerLU VakAtioth	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:50:00 - [21] Originally by: Scordite Heavy webber drones? I just wanted to ask the same -------------- Recruiting: Check our Recruitement thread or our HP
inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:53:00 - [22] He'll pop them in seconds. Webbber drones have naff all HP.
MOS DEF Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:53:00 - [23] You guys totally forget about the broken state of this game. The ship whose ECM drones jam the oponent first wins. No matter if geddon or mega.
Flaming sambuka IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:56:00 - [24] Originally by: inSpirAcy He'll pop them in seconds. Webbber drones have naff all HP. By the time hes even finished locking the drones the geddon is gonna be munching away at his armour, then hes gota pop the drones, bye bye armour and then hes gota mwd to geddon with low cap and try to take him out too. webber drones 4tw!
inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:57:00 - [25] Originally by: Flaming sambuka By the time hes even finished locking the drones the geddon is gonna be munching away at his armour, then hes gota pop the drones, bye bye armour and then hes gota mwd to geddon with low cap and try to take him out too. webber drones 4tw! And his Ogres will be eating your Geddon because you've wasted an important chunk of your damage output.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.09.09 12:59:00 - [26] Originally by: Andreask14 The punisher, maller, apoc, prophecy and their t2 equivalents are useless ships. Their main feature is tanking, which is sooooo inferior to ganking and any Ew that it hurts my guts. The Prophecy is a great ship, also seen some quite interesting setups for punishers. The maller..well, yes, it needs more grid. And the apocs 2nd bonus is crap. The the frig sized lasers need some grid reduction. I mean, generally, how many amarr frigs you see around compared to other races frigs? And some kind of 30k scrambler would be nice so amarr shortrange ships can actually use their range advantage. But those are in the end only small problems, the main problems really are ECM and EAN2. Originally by: Scordite Heavy webber drones? Anything dronebased does not really work because both ships have the same size there. If one ship is using them and the other not you have one specific anti-fit and 1 general fit, that is no fair ( and realistic, for that matter) comparsion.
Frools No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.09 13:18:00 - [27] Originally by: vyperpit Edited by: vyperpit on 09/09/2006 12:04:24 you will not iwn if fighting a similar skilled pilot! 1 b-thron vs 1 geddoe : b-thron wins 2 B-thron vs 2 geddon : b-throon again 3 B-thron vs 3 geddon : close 4 B-thron vs 4 geddon : geddeons win 5+ B-thron vs 5+ geddon : geddons win wrong been screwing around on sisi with a geddon recently and even tho my char is about 2m sp behind (lacks t2 large lasers and armour comp skills are only at 2) i've come seriously close to killing blasterthrons 1v1 only the hax gallente structure saved them and thats just beserkers not anything clever like web or ecm drones as i cant use them yet setup is similar to Agent2 Holtze, fit megapulse, couple of heatsinks then just create a huge armour buffer with decent resists
Agent2 Holtze Amarr Barracudas.	Posted - 2006.09.09 13:26:00 - [28] Originally by: Frools Originally by: vyperpit Edited by: vyperpit on 09/09/2006 12:04:24 you will not iwn if fighting a similar skilled pilot! 1 b-thron vs 1 geddoe : b-thron wins 2 B-thron vs 2 geddon : b-throon again 3 B-thron vs 3 geddon : close 4 B-thron vs 4 geddon : geddeons win 5+ B-thron vs 5+ geddon : geddons win wrong been screwing around on sisi with a geddon recently and even tho my char is about 2m sp behind (lacks t2 large lasers and armour comp skills are only at 2) i've come seriously close to killing blasterthrons 1v1 only the hax gallente structure saved them and thats just beserkers not anything clever like web or ecm drones as i cant use them yet setup is similar to Agent2 Holtze, fit megapulse, couple of heatsinks then just create a huge armour buffer with decent resists I usually go with Mega pulse aswell, but due to pirate implants i can't have a CPU implant in, and as far as i remember it lacks CPU to fit the second web ? i tend to have a sensor booster fittet instead. Posting and you!
Frools No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.09 13:30:00 - [29] Edited by: Frools on 09/09/2006 13:32:39 well tbh the setup i've been using wasnt supposed to be solo so the mids are different 90% web, named eccm, heavy cap injector screw nos/ecm domi's edit: with -3% cpu implant you can get: 7 megapulse II 2x 90% web 1x j5 20k scram 2x 1600mm RT 1x med accomo 2x eanmII 1x internal force field array 2x hsII 0.6 cpu free
Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.09.09 13:37:00 - [30] Your dual heavy pulse laser t2 hits EANMt2 tanked Megathron for 18.6 dmg

Nebuli Caldari Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.09.09 14:08:00 - [31] Dual web, webber drones and a MWD? Stay at 30k and wtfs a blasterthron gonna do? die..... CEO - Art of War
inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.09.09 14:12:00 - [32] Edited by: inSpirAcy on 09/09/2006 14:15:37 Originally by: Nebuli Dual web, webber drones and a MWD? Stay at 30k and wtfs a blasterthron gonna do? die..... Probably own you with Null. Seriously, webber drones are utterly overrated. I've used them and they die far, far too easily. Not to mention that using them means your only non-EM/Therm damage has gone completely, which is about a Geddon's only hope of overcoming the higher base EM resist a Megathron has over its base Kinetic resist. MWD + dual web + webber drones + starting from range, at best, is a draw. You can't pin a Megathron with that. Edit: In fact, believe it or not, a Megathron's best chance in that situation is to maintain range where its damage output basically matches the Geddon's. This is with the tank turned off, mind, so it'll only get worse for the Geddon from there.
Scordite	Posted - 2006.09.09 14:21:00 - [33] Originally by: Aramendel Anything dronebased does not really work because both ships have the same size there. If one ship is using them and the other not you have one specific anti-fit and 1 general fit, that is no fair ( and realistic, for that matter) comparsion. This argument is flawed in so many ways. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.09.09 14:33:00 - [34] Originally by: Scordite This argument is flawed in so many ways. The sky is full of little bunnies. See? I can make 1 sentence statements without any backing, too.
webkert Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.09 14:47:00 - [35] Edited by: webkert on 09/09/2006 14:48:10 Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Jim McGregor Trying to beat a mega at his own game is not recommended. :) "my pulsegeddon was smacked in the face at 2km range by a blasterthron. NURF THUM PLZKTHKX!" although its not like you can fit an mwd and a cap injector on a geddon and still have a good setup. Its not just the slots, but cpu usage on large energy turrets is like a cruel ******* joke. webber drones might work, but mega can use those aswell, so they will just cancel eachother out.
JoeT Amarr Nubs. Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.09 14:49:00 - [36] Originally by: KillerLU Originally by: Scordite Heavy webber drones? I just wanted to ask the same 5 heavy web drones slow them down 83% overall. Use one Mid slot for ECM to help throw off the lock. Unless their packing a 100MN MWD, they wont be able to close, and if they are packing a 100mn MWD, they better have a cap injector for when they do get close. ---
xlop Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.09 14:51:00 - [37] Originally by: webkert although its not like you can fit an mwd and a cap injector on a geddon and still have a good setup. Its not just the slots, but cpu usage on large energy turrets is like a cruel ******* joke. webber drones might work, but mega can use those aswell, so they will just cancel eachother out. well looks like you and tbh 95% of other amarr users have never come across dual heavy pulse t2 also you are screwed because of the way energized adaptives work and that ur t2 crystals do mostly EM [hell even ur t1s] now, a geddenos grace is that it can hit at 45km for full dmg, while a mega can only touch 10km with full dmg!! gedden is a group ship, not really solo.
Stamm Amarr Three Holdings Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.09.09 14:51:00 - [38] Originally by: vyperpit Edited by: vyperpit on 09/09/2006 12:04:24 you will not iwn if fighting a similar skilled pilot! 1 b-thron vs 1 geddoe : b-thron wins 2 B-thron vs 2 geddon : b-throon again 3 B-thron vs 3 geddon : close 4 B-thron vs 4 geddon : geddeons win 5+ B-thron vs 5+ geddon : geddons win Be interesting to see for a 1v1, start at 50KM, the distance at which the geddon can start hitting you, and see how close it gets. Really there's all kinds of variables and it's very difficult to say that one ship is better than another. I'd argue a geddon is a very good gang ship. It's a nice honest ship, and if you fit it like me the only way to stop it firing is to pop it.
Frools No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.09.09 14:59:00 - [39] Originally by: xlop now, a geddenos grace is that it can hit at 45km for full dmg, while a mega can only touch 10km with full dmg!! o rly!? so a megapulse II with conflagration (full damage) has 45km optimal does it? yes you can hit out at 45km but its not 'full damage' conflag is 60hp base damage, scorch is 42(nearly all em :\) at 45km a megapulse geddon's damage goes from ~1000dps down to 600 besides a mega can fit a mwd with a decent setup to close range, geddon really cant (note that whilst you can just about squeeze a mwd in with dhp you'll definately need a cap injector and that does not fit)
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.09.09 15:08:00 - [40] 7x DHP II, 1x nos 20km, 90%, cap injector 2x LAR II, 2x EANM II, 1x internal force field array, 1x HS II, 2x 1600mm rolled 5x berzerker II best chance you've got

xlop Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.09 15:12:00 - [41] Originally by: Frools Originally by: xlop now, a geddenos grace is that it can hit at 45km for full dmg, while a mega can only touch 10km with full dmg!! o rly!? so a megapulse II with conflagration (full damage) has 45km optimal does it? yes you can hit out at 45km but its not 'full damage' conflag is 60hp base damage, scorch is 42(nearly all em :\) at 45km a megapulse geddon's damage goes from ~1000dps down to 600 besides a mega can fit a mwd with a decent setup to close range, geddon really cant (note that whilst you can just about squeeze a mwd in with dhp you'll definately need a cap injector and that does not fit) first off its down from 60 to 44 [not 42] yes your dmg goes down to about 600-700, but u can hit that farr!!, also, a blasterthron almost ALWAYS fights in galloff [apart from null but then its 44dmg not 60eh] this falloff fighting reduces the DPS of the blasters greatly, just for ref, at about 18km with void/am the blasters do roughly half of their max dps! and i fly both ships with t2 guns, and i know each ones strengths, if we are ganking or want to *****a gate camp 5 pulse geddens ftw, if we are 1-3people blasterthron ftw. the problem is energized tank, imo it would be more than fair to drop armor EM to 50% and add 10% to exp and 5% to kin/thermal, that would in effect add 25% dps from any EM attack!
Dixon Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.09 15:32:00 - [42] Quote: amarr are not the problem. the problem is ECM and omni-tanks, as I have said like 100000 times before. QFT I didn't have anything important to add so I just pulled a QFT... you got a problem with that? - - - - - - I have no strong feelings one way or the other...
Nedia	Posted - 2006.09.09 15:48:00 - [43] 50km geddon shooting vs a mega is equal to a mega warping out plus scorch mainly doing em dmg vs 80 em resist a lot time to warp out
Rehmes	Posted - 2006.09.09 15:50:00 - [44] Goddam this turned into a whine thread again.... To the OP: Yes u can win as long as u have control over the distance between both of u. A blasterthron is useless outside its optimal and thats usually where amarians rule. To: the whiners: Everyone in the EVE community has acknowledged the amarians r in need of some help, stating the same damn point and spamming every thread u find isnt gonna solve the issue. Uve made a long thread about ur pleas/concern and im sure someone important has noticed it. All that needs to be solved is to raise therm base dmg of lasers, increase armor hp on amarian ships and lower cap drain of lasers. If that happens then u may remove the cap bonus thus allowing for more variety on their ships. Now go back to ur 60 thousand page thread and post ur rants there and simply answer the OP question u damn derail monkeys.....
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.09.09 16:25:00 - [45] Originally by: Nebuli Dual web, webber drones and a MWD? Stay at 30k and wtfs a blasterthron gonna do? die..... Or if hes not afk warp away. --- CCP where are our t2 shield power relays?
fmercury Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.09 17:07:00 - [46] Jesus christ, shut up. A blaster mega is good for ONE thing. ONE. And that is ultra-close range damage. A geddon is sutied for MEDIUM RANGE engagements. So you're complaining that the ship designed for ultra-close range fighting is beating your medium range ship at ultra-close range? get a ******* clue.
Dethis Caldari The Graduates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.09 17:19:00 - [47] Edited by: Dethis on 09/09/2006 17:19:44 Originally by: fmercury Jesus christ, shut up. A blaster mega is good for ONE thing. ONE. And that is ultra-close range damage. A geddon is sutied for MEDIUM RANGE engagements. So you're complaining that the ship designed for ultra-close range fighting is beating your medium range ship at ultra-close range? get a ******* clue. Quoted for so much truth it hurts. FFS if you like the mega and its close range roll so much train for it. Sure amarr have their problems i wont deny that but this is a retarded argument. Blasters > lasers at close range and if that ships gets in close range it > you. -------- Kill em all and let god sort em out
Cosmo Raata Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.09.09 17:42:00 - [48] The Geddon is the only amarr ship I believe is fine, therefore me arguing for it in such scenario doesn't discredit my believe that amarr need fixing. 1 vs 1 My Geddon has killed every Megathron on SiSi. On lower leveled bs pilots I've taken on a domi & a Mega. I'm not posting my setup, its a secret thats safe with my corp alone. However, Only Mega I couldn't kill was a dual repping Navy Issue Faction fitted Mega.
kessah Caldari Blood Corsairs	Posted - 2006.09.09 18:12:00 - [49] fit a geddon with a mwd and some webber drones geddon wins 1v1 Its completly pointless to argue who will win becus it is all environmentally dependant. Ranges, numbers, setups, location and ability dictates all. One thing is certain tho fit a Multispectural jammer on one of the ships and youve just increased your chances alot of winning. -------------------------------------------------------- Forever Pirate 2
Rant Anplan	Posted - 2006.09.09 18:16:00 - [50] Edited by: Rant Anplan on 09/09/2006 18:17:58 What about fitting "a sufficient amount" of NOS and Neutralizers? If his cap is dead he can't hit you with his precious Blasters, and if his reppers don't work even a geddon doing half its max damage kills him. With such a setup, a Mega coming in to close range is exactly where you want it to be.

inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.09.09 18:19:00 - [51] Originally by: Rant Anplan What about fitting "a sufficient amount" of NOS and Neutralizers? If his cap is dead he can't hit you with his precious Blasters, and if his reppers don't work even a geddon doing half its max damage kills him. With such a setup, a Mega coming in to close range is exactly where you want it to be. Like Aramendel said, as soon as you start fitting out one ship to take out the other without its knowledge the comparison isn't useful. If you fit nos to the Geddon, the Mega pilot has to know about it and be able to fit nos to counter.
Aeaus Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.09.09 18:53:00 - [52] Assuming you're both flying Top-End ships, there is an important point to be made. The megathron right now is THE CLOSERANGE damage ship, if you're in a BS without support and he lands within 20KM you better have EW or be very close-range yourself. If the megathron doesn't start within 20-25 KM he's completely boned, simple as that. The geddon will rip him a new one and laugh while doing so. Join Tharsis! - Get Sexy Sigs
Dixon Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.09 18:59:00 - [53] Originally by: Aeaus If the megathron doesn't start within 20-25 KM he's completely boned, simple as that. The geddon will rip him a new one and laugh while doing so. A polite geddon pilot wouldn't laugh at his victim, that's mean. - - - - - - I have no strong feelings one way or the other...
Rant Anplan	Posted - 2006.09.09 19:08:00 - [54] Edited by: Rant Anplan on 09/09/2006 19:13:29 Originally by: inSpirAcy Originally by: Rant Anplan What about fitting "a sufficient amount" of NOS and Neutralizers? If his cap is dead he can't hit you with his precious Blasters, and if his reppers don't work even a geddon doing half its max damage kills him. With such a setup, a Mega coming in to close range is exactly where you want it to be. Like Aramendel said, as soon as you start fitting out one ship to take out the other without its knowledge the comparison isn't useful. If you fit nos to the Geddon, the Mega pilot has to know about it and be able to fit nos to counter. True, but the NOS geddon is a valid close range setup though. And if he counters with NOS he won't be such a brutal ganker anymore, resulting in a tie. Same holds true for the Apoc btw, meaning that Amarr are balanced.
Foulis Minmatar Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.09 21:47:00 - [55] Originally by: Dethis Edited by: Dethis on 09/09/2006 17:19:44 Originally by: fmercury Jesus christ, shut up. A blaster mega is good for ONE thing. ONE. And that is ultra-close range damage. A geddon is sutied for MEDIUM RANGE engagements. So you're complaining that the ship designed for ultra-close range fighting is beating your medium range ship at ultra-close range? get a ***** clue. Quoted for so much truth it hurts. FFS if you like the mega and its close range roll so much train for it. Sure amarr have their problems i wont deny that but this is a retarded argument. Blasters > lasers at close range and if that ships gets in close range it > you. ---- Cake > Pie - Imaran Cathath > Imaran - Cathath Originally by:** CCP Hammer Boobies
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.09.09 22:26:00 - [56] Originally by: Rant Anplan True, but the NOS geddon is a valid close range setup though. And if he counters with NOS he won't be such a brutal ganker anymore, resulting in a tie. 2 words: cap injector. It's pretty much standard with a blasterthron and with one as long as he got charges you won't really be able to stop him from fireing. And if you go for example for a 4 nos, 4 pulse setup your dps will go down to about 2/3s of a 7 pulse setup, so it won't have as much to tank. Nos on the whole IMO hurts amarr ships more than it helps. Other races can use it just as well and amarr ships suffer the most from it's effects.
Rant Anplan	Posted - 2006.09.09 23:24:00 - [57] Edited by: Rant Anplan on 09/09/2006 23:24:03 Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Rant Anplan True, but the NOS geddon is a valid close range setup though. And if he counters with NOS he won't be such a brutal ganker anymore, resulting in a tie. 2 words: cap injector. It's pretty much standard with a blasterthron and with one as long as he got charges you won't really be able to stop him from fireing. And if you go for example for a 4 nos, 4 pulse setup your dps will go down to about 2/3s of a 7 pulse setup, so it won't have as much to tank. Nos on the whole IMO hurts amarr ships more than it helps. Other races can use it just as well and amarr ships suffer the most from it's effects. With the Mega in close pursuit the key is not to outdamage him, as it is meant to be the close range killer ship. The key as Amarr is to outtank him. That is difficult, but Amarr have the best chance. Nos are heavy on the power grid. As Amarr you will always be able to fit more or have more options after fitting. Cap rechargers and armor reppers are the same. PG directly translates into tanking ability. Granted the Geddon has not much more than the Mega, so an off topic Apoc would be better for this. The Geddon is the damage dealer from afar, while the Apoc can go in and slug it out, so this probably belongs into the Amarr thread, but what the hell. With maximized tanking, you should be able to hold your ground against the Mega. With 4 Nos onto him, he can't tank much, especially when his charges are spent, If he can't tank, then only 4 turret are enough to kill him. Tank him as long as his cap charges hold, which is as long as your cap charges hold. Then you won't have to tank anymore, as his guns fall silent. Open laser fire at some time inbetween, depending on your cap. If he has nos, you won't have to tank as much too. If this approach doesn't work, especially with the Apoc, then Amarr are broken. Mind that both pilots should not make any mistakes with cap management...
inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.09.09 23:36:00 - [58] Originally by: Rant Anplan If this approach doesn't work, especially with the Apoc, then Amarr are broken. Mind that both pilots should not make any mistakes with cap management... I don't think it fairly portrays as Amarr as "broken". You're taking a ship designed to operate at ranges 20km+ and forcing it to 1v1. You can't 1v1 outside 20km without faction equipment, so it's a no go from the start.
Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari Gilead's Bullet Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.10 00:03:00 - [59] Armageddons really aren't solo ships, but in this case, you can probably use a pair of Domination 15km 90% webs with a set of heavy web drones to make use of the big range advantage your megapulses have over his blasters. --------------------- Originally by: Herko Kerghans Nik = win. Period. Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108! byahahahahaha!11 Sig Pwnt - Immy
inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.09.10 00:04:00 - [60] Originally by: Rant Anplan I'm with you, but i feel that at least the Apoc should have to have a fighting (or sporting? ) chance if you use all the tools at your disposal. Best short range damage dealer against best tanker. The Apoc is not exactly faster than the Mega to keep range, the Geddon on the other hand is. Ah, well the Apocalypse I agree with you on. I think that would be a very difficult fight for both sides.

dalman Finite Auxiliary	Posted - 2006.09.10 00:52:00 - [61] This topic is kinda stupid. A geddon is the best medium range BS in the game. Which also makes it the best ship for 'close range' gangs. A blasterthron is only good for one thing really, 1vs1 really closerange. So, if your geddon is gonna beat a thron 1vs1 (or really anything 1vs1), you have to fit something different from what you do in a small gang. 1, keep the thron at outside blaster optimal, be it with webber drones or faction webbers. 2, make use of the potential to fit an 8-slot tank (2x rep, 3x active hardeners, 2x eanm, 1x 1600 or something like that), your big dronebay and some nosferatus to outlast him. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.09.10 01:17:00 - [62] Originally by: Nebuli OK you say cap injecter makes Nos useless,.. No, I do not? Nosses will quite obviously make tanking quite difficult and otherwise do hell with the energy balance. But with an injector you can keep your guns working halfway regulary. You can counter it halfway with an injector, but saying that it makes it "useless" is rediculous. Now, an "Ion or Electron blasterthron, now he will need to be within 10 ish K to do any decent damage"..? With Null an ionthron will be at it's optimal at 10k and will still hit for 50% of it's max dps at 20k. Of cource thats a good amount less dps than normally, but is still loads more than 4 pulse lasers (which cannot use conflag that well at this range btw), especially with EAN2 tanks. And once the mega is dry the nosses won't help the arma much for tanking. Also, balancing the distance between 15-20 km with 2 BSs with MWDs is relatively tricky. Unless the mega pilot is braindead and keeps on "approach target". In order to let the geddon really use it's med range bonus it would need a 30k scrambler. As last thing, note that saying "ship a is weaker than ship b here" is not the same as saying "OMG boost ship a !!1!1"
Awox	Posted - 2006.09.10 03:55:00 - [63] Originally by: Tassi Your dual heavy pulse laser t2 hits EANMt2 tanked Megathron for 18.6 dmg lol amarr
Murukan Minmatar The Priory	Posted - 2006.09.10 04:48:00 - [64] you can always try packing 5 web drones and just sit out of blaster range In rust we trust!!!
Aldari Verve Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.09.10 05:10:00 - [65] Trying to beat me is nearly impossible :P Don't lie you know this is about me
Pestillence Revelations Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.10 10:40:00 - [66] Originally by: Awox Originally by: Tassi Your dual heavy pulse laser t2 hits EANMt2 tanked Megathron for 18.6 dmg Beserker II's - you can fit 5 of them.
Soros 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.09.10 11:39:00 - [67] LOL. hav none of you ever faced either duri X or fedor two well known geddon pilots who im sure hav beaten many blasterthron pilots in the past .. no thron starts from inside web range usually coming from 20-30k in which time the geddon pilot has his x5 heavy probally t2 drones on the mega and his guns all firing stripping his shields, heavy nos goes on .. Its do able .. its been done and so thats where most of you are wrong ..
Soros 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.09.10 11:42:00 - [68] x7 dhp 1x dim nos web scram injector dual reps x3 ean x3 1600 plates x5 berserkers .. Im not saying you WILL win .. but from what this thread suggests alot more chance than you might think .. If the thron has Null loaded you'll outank him .. if he has void .. make sure u keep him at ranges above 5-6k .. = win
LaCoHa Acerbus Vindictum	Posted - 2006.09.10 12:02:00 - [69] 7 x Heavy Nos. scramblers and webs in med. dual rep - therm kin double hardned, and the rest 1600mm plates. Then call in your buddy in a prophecy (or anything) - and kill the now VERY frustrated mega pilot. Nos ftueberannyoing win.
Rant Anplan	Posted - 2006.09.10 12:12:00 - [70] Originally by: LaCoHa 7 x Heavy Nos. scramblers and webs in med. dual rep - therm kin double hardned, and the rest 1600mm plates. Then call in your buddy in a prophecy (or anything) - and kill the now VERY frustrated mega pilot. Nos ftueberannyoing win. No need for a buddy - your drones will bag him.

Horza Otho Minmatar Silver Star Federation	Posted - 2006.09.10 12:21:00 - [71] Originally by: Andreask14 Amarr is the problem. The punisher, maller, apoc, prophecy and their t2 equivalents are useless ships. Their main feature is tanking, which is sooooo inferior to ganking and any Ew that it hurts my guts. The amarrian damage boats are OK, but suffer from ECM, EAN and the fact that medium range is neither webber range nor gate-camp range but is the range they fare best with t1 ammo. you are totally clueless.
Scordite	Posted - 2006.09.10 13:23:00 - [72] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Scordite This argument is flawed in so many ways. The sky is full of little bunnies. See? I can make 1 sentence statements without any backing, too. Ok then. If the mega brought webber drones, it would not be an anti-fit, but rather an anti-anti-fit. It would not be to counter the geddon, but to counter the geddon's webber drones. This requires the mega pilot to know which drones the geddon pilot brings before the engagement starts. Now if the geddon pilot knows the mega is bringing webber drones, he also knows that the damage difference is smaller.. He could make a specific anti-anti-fit to suit this situation. There's a heck of a lot of difference between knowing which ship you're going up against, and knowing what setup they're using. Anyways, bunnies are cool ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.09.10 13:39:00 - [73] Originally by: Scordite ...There's a heck of a lot of difference between knowing which ship you're going up against, and knowing what setup they're using. True. But the thing is, would a blasterthron pilot bring normal combat drones knowing it will face an arma? It can tank better than it due to the basic armor resists and will do more dps when it gets in range, so 5 heavy combats are simply not needed there. So it will bring EW drones. 5 webbing drones will cancel the arma ones. 5 ECM drones will most likely jam the arma, since it does not really has room for (medslot) ECCM with MWD, injector and disruptor. 5 tracking disruptor drones will bring the armas range to that of the mega (and as bonus make it totally unable to even remotly hope to be able to hit the drones with it's weapons).
Yaay Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.09.10 15:04:00 - [74] Any ship can beat any ship on any given day. It's not about skillpoints, it's not about the pilots skill, it's not about setups, or any other single thing. There are a lot of factors that play into pvp. So you can continue to run computer models and dps and t2 v t1..... But they won't tell you nearly as much as practical experience will. Love it or hate it, your just going to have to find out for yourself what a geddon can do for you.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest	Posted - 2006.09.10 18:00:00 - [75] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Nebuli OK you say cap injecter makes Nos useless,.. No, I do not? Nosses will quite obviously make tanking quite difficult and otherwise do hell with the energy balance. But with an injector you can keep your guns working halfway regulary. You can counter it halfway with an injector, but saying that it makes it "useless" is rediculous. I guess you haven't fought any Megathrons with injectors. I have and NOS is utterly futile to use on them. Mega's only need 1 LAR II, Short bursts of MWD, and then their guns. They will do so much damage that nothing your NOS could do to their tank and guns can keep you from dying. All you can really do is keep range, tracking disrupt/ECM them or out damage them. All of which are hard to do on most ships if you are caught in its spider web at close range. You will not do enough damage to break its tank before he breaks yours. Geddon will suffer the same demise a Tempest usually does Unless you are going to compare a 'omni' mega tank to a 'mega-specific' geddon tank which would make the comparison pretty stupid. The problem in this comparison between the two ships is not of racial differences but a comparison of roles. Midrange ships are gang oriented. Close range ships are more suited for 1 on 1. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Awox	Posted - 2006.09.13 15:53:00 - [76] Originally by: Tassi Your dual heavy pulse laser t2 hits EANMt2 tanked Megathron for 18.6 dmg lol Tassi. <3
Troubadour Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.09.14 05:49:00 - [77] Originally by: Andreask14 I dont care about the RP background. As you can see in this thread, you will need 2x webber, which means TWO OF YOUR THREE medslots, to even stand a chance against a mega, that will easily ECM you. Conclusion: A geddon has no chance in this scenario. The fact of the matter is that amarrian ships are out-gunned at close range by blasters, out-ranged by hybrids and missiles, and out-droned by all drone-ships. They are also out-ecmed, out-tanked and out-sped. There is NOTHING that lets amarr come out on-top. Pilgrim. Nuff said.
Ephemeron	Posted - 2006.09.14 06:05:00 - [78] try 3x heavy nos + heavy neut heavy cap injector, double armor rep Use heavy drones
Koloch Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.14 07:30:00 - [79] Originally by: Troubadour Originally by: Andreask14 There is NOTHING that lets amarr come out on-top. Pilgrim. Nuff said. wow we have one ship that's half decent you don't how warm and fuzzy that makes me feel coming from a Gallente.
Gabriel Karade Office linebackers Blood of the Innocents	Posted - 2006.09.14 07:40:00 - [80] Waves hand You must self-destruct, as you're not going to live. But you have to do it before the blasterthron gets to you, otherwise it will blow you up before the timer counts down... Oh I second the motion for having the 'Jaws' music kick in once a blasterthron starts MWD'ing towards you. ---------- - Office Linebacker -

Murukan Minmatar The Priory	Posted - 2006.09.14 07:41:00 - [81] PvP is not balanced around 1v1's. So some ships are better solo then others. Geddon can do awesome damage further out than other close range setups. And no a geddon will not beat a bthron 1v1 at close range. If the bthron pilot knows what he is doing you'll never beat him close up, and tbh you shouldn't be able to. And andreas if you think amarr are sooo terrible train up another race cause they obviously don't suit your desired style of gameplay. In rust we trust!!!
BirdBleed	Posted - 2006.09.14 10:19:00 - [82] Originally by: Soros x7 dhp 1x dim nos web scram injector dual reps x3 ean x3 1600 plates x5 berserkers .. Im not saying you WILL win .. but from what this thread suggests alot more chance than you might think .. If the thron has Null loaded you'll outank him .. if he has void .. make sure u keep him at ranges above 5-6k .. = win EAMN for a co-processor if you want to use t2 mods :) Duri X went up against garetonis remember ? He had same setup there i think except he was using kinetic and thermal hardener + dmg control with named guns so it would all fit. Gare won but only just in his (electron thron ?)
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.14 10:47:00 - [83] Originally by: Andreask14 I dont care about the RP background. As you can see in this thread, you will need 2x webber, which means TWO OF YOUR THREE medslots, to even stand a chance against a mega, that will easily ECM you. Conclusion: A geddon has no chance in this scenario. The fact of the matter is that amarrian ships are out-gunned at close range by blasters, out-ranged by hybrids and missiles, and out-droned by all drone-ships. They are also out-ecmed, out-tanked and out-sped. There is NOTHING that lets amarr come out on-top. You think so, eh ;) ----------------------------------------------
Lord Wimbishi Caldari Wolven Elite Guard Ghosts of Retribution	Posted - 2006.09.14 10:54:00 - [84] For one, you are trying to take a tier 1 battleship against a tier 2 battleship. Trying to overtake it in its specialized arena of combat on its terms where it has dominion. Thats just not smart in the first place. If you can't out do something the way you want to, think of another way to do so or a whole new plan to doing so. If a Mega with t2 blasters loaded up with null or even void gets near ANY battleship that ship is toast. best defense is not engaging it willingly at the range it can kill you in. Most of the time you won't be able to out run a blasterthron because it will have MWD. having a web won't help either so your best choice is to run and try to come back at range and play a game of cat and mouse with it. Again talking as if you was going solo to solo with such a ship which is ballzy in the first place since 'flies' normally can catch ya and keep ya in place anyways. All a mega has to do is throw on ONE active thermal hardener and shunt 60% of your damage away you DO do to it so.. again stay away from it. Even an Apoc 'which is suppose to be it's match' couldn't take the beating of a blasterthron, hell even a Raven thats about the same equivalent in fitting would have a hard time with one too. The era of the invincible gankagedon is over, time to move onto chapter 2. "Protecting the Ignorant from the immoral scum of the galaxy"
Lord Wimbishi Caldari Wolven Elite Guard Ghosts of Retribution	Posted - 2006.09.14 10:58:00 - [85] Originally by: dalman This topic is kinda stupid. A geddon is the best medium range BS in the game. Which also makes it the best ship for 'close range' gangs. A blasterthron is only good for one thing really, 1vs1 really closerange. So, if your geddon is gonna beat a thron 1vs1 (or really anything 1vs1), you have to fit something different from what you do in a small gang. 1, keep the thron at outside blaster optimal, be it with webber drones or faction webbers. 2, make use of the potential to fit an 8-slot tank (2x rep, 3x active hardeners, 2x eanm, 1x 1600 or something like that), your big dronebay and some nosferatus to outlast him. I beg to differ, maxed skill mega with t2 rails is one hell of a slug thrower at range. it can out do any ship from mid to long range of equal skill. what it makes up for not being able to take out shds like an amarr ship can it makes up from armor punching. The minny pest is the worse damage dealer, huge hits but one to one it will lose to any battleship of equal ability and fitting. the apoc, arma and mega are the best battleship shooters in the game. "Protecting the Ignorant from the immoral scum of the galaxy"
Kalek Astroth Amarr The Electrocuted iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.14 11:35:00 - [86] well , if i undock with a gankageddon followed by my adversary in a blastermega , the fight will be at extreeme close range and i have no chance to survive that even if i have 10 mil sp in gunnery and heavy energy wpn maxed (but bs is still at 4) i have to switch to a non amarr set up (nos neut and heavy tII drones) thats sucks imo but thx for the advices
dalman Finite Auxiliary	Posted - 2006.09.14 12:07:00 - [87] Edited by: dalman on 14/09/2006 12:15:38 Originally by: Lord Wimbishi For one, you are trying to take a tier 1 battleship against a tier 2 battleship. Trying to overtake it in its specialized arena of combat on its terms where it has dominion. Thats just not smart in the first place. If you can't out do something the way you want to, think of another way to do so or a whole new plan to doing so. If a Mega with t2 blasters loaded up with null or even void gets near ANY battleship that ship is toast. That has to be something of the biggest lies ever. I've played this game since launch, and I've had large blaster spec lvl 5 trained for soon 2 years. My skills are maxed out for a blasterthron, there's not a single skill I can train or implant I can plug in to further enhance me as a blasterthron pilot. And I haven't flown a blasterthron for over a year now. Because the ship isn't good. If I set up my dominix for 1vs1 (not specificly vs megathron) I'd win. If I had such high skillpoints in other races, I'm very very confident I'd win if I flown a typhoon or armageddon and probably raven as well. That the average player doesn't understand the huge difference in setting up for solo or for being part of a 10 man gang is not my problem. I rather enjoy to teach them the hard way. (it's another story that a blasterthron is very bad for 10 man gangs) And yes, I've killed blasterthrons 1vs1. Even in such cases where the fight starts outside a station at 4 km range so the thron didn't fit a MWD(nor AB). Originally by: Lord Wimbishi Originally by: dalman A blasterthron is only good for one thing really, 1vs1 really closerange. I beg to differ, maxed skill mega with t2 rails is one hell of a slug thrower at range. And you better have a really good explenation of how the heck a blasterthron = ship with rails. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Lord Wimbishi Caldari Wolven Elite Guard Ghosts of Retribution	Posted - 2006.09.14 15:04:00 - [88] Edited by: Lord Wimbishi on 14/09/2006 15:08:04 Originally by: dalman Edited by: dalman on 14/09/2006 12:15:38 Originally by: Lord Wimbishi For one, you are trying to take a tier 1 battleship against a tier 2 battleship. Trying to overtake it in its specialized arena of combat on its terms where it has dominion. Thats just not smart in the first place. If you can't out do something the way you want to, think of another way to do so or a whole new plan to doing so. If a Mega with t2 blasters loaded up with null or even void gets near ANY battleship that ship is toast. That has to be something of the biggest lies ever. I've played this game since launch, and I've had large blaster spec lvl 5 trained for soon 2 years. My skills are maxed out for a blasterthron, there's not a single skill I can train or implant I can plug in to further enhance me as a blasterthron pilot. And I haven't flown a blasterthron for over a year now. Because the ship isn't good. If I set up my dominix for 1vs1 (not specificly vs megathron) I'd win. If I had such high skillpoints in other races, I'm very very confident I'd win if I flown a typhoon or armageddon and probably raven as well. That the average player doesn't understand the huge difference in setting up for solo or for being part of a 10 man gang is not my problem. I rather enjoy to teach them the hard way. (it's another story that a blasterthron is very bad for 10 man gangs) And yes, I've killed blasterthrons 1vs1. Even in such cases where the fight starts outside a station at 4 km range so the thron didn't fit a MWD(nor AB). Originally by: Lord Wimbishi Originally by: dalman A blasterthron is only good for one thing really, 1vs1 really closerange. I beg to differ, maxed skill mega with t2 rails is one hell of a slug thrower at range. And you better have a really good explenation of how the heck a blasterthron = ship with rails. Um take off blasters put on 425mm rails = no longer blasterthron thus = more use then just short range. And umm.. spec skills haven't been out 2 years and I have maxed out skills in the mega as well in rail and getting there with blasters. The mega and Raven are heavy skill required ships now days. Raven was the easiest before now it ain't. I don't use the Mega as a blaster boat since I am mostly a fleet pilot and use rails for it instead. Take away drones and other 'out side' help a proper rail mega can dash a domi's capability. again it comes down to cat and mouse at ranges if both pilots know what they are doing and have their ships set up properly. Also the design of a Mega 'before' the fixes had hard time coping with the 'gank-a-gedon' of old. you had to have a lot of skills and near maxed out full firepower to kill it before it killed you. Now days still the arma even at mid range between opponents an arma still comes down on the lower side between the two. In a full firepower duel, equaled skilled with no ecm and such an arma will lose to a mega at 30-50km. the mega's shd could go before the arma but once armor is reached it will have a tough time of it. "Protecting the Ignorant from the immoral scum of the galaxy"


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