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Kalki Nibiru
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Posted - 2003.10.20 08:01:00 -
[31]
The time delay is still very relavent. Even though I have conceded that I know they are moving away from the old system, and into a standing "pre-requisite" system, the time puts more people at a disadvantage.
I can only raise my standing every 15 mins, for example I do very little agent missions due to my total play time, in an hour, I could get 4 done at best. So while I'm whittling away trying to do agent missions through the week, someone who power-games has their standings very high, and as they continue to do missions, they continue to get good rewards as their standing is high, and gets higher, while I and many others struggle to get our standing to a level where we can receive good rewards.
Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate
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<Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market?
<Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with |
Tharrn
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Posted - 2003.10.20 08:03:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Tharrn on 20/10/2003 08:03:51
I hope you did not forget about casual players in your concept. If standings decay too fast or to zero it will be virtually impossible to get good agents for them. Or what about extended leaves like hollidays? If I'd return after two weeks to find all of my standings decayed back to zero that would be a major bummer.
In Jumpgate you can get a maximum standing of 125 with the factions but they never decay down below 100 plus they only decay during your online time.
Having them decay down to a 'good' standing only makes sense, too, as you might be inactive for that faction but have still been an asset for them.
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JPFAmarr
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Posted - 2003.10.20 08:11:00 -
[33]
You may want to consider "grandfathering" in the existing unlimited BP missions that many many people have been working hard towards. If the intent is to keep people coming back to do more with that agent then other BPC awards sound good...problem solved. Just be careful not to anger a great many people that are working towards the current unlimited BPs.
Generic Corporation |
McWatt
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Posted - 2003.10.20 09:08:00 -
[34]
Edited by: McWatt on 20/10/2003 09:10:34
 Quote:
As you can see, they are improving the faction system, so your issue #2 will probably be solved (this time or next).
NPC AI? It seems to me that a PC AI is much more needed.
player ai has been improved a lot by implants recently.
solved like agility was by missiles?
if you ve got a big problem, you will rarely solve it as a by-product of a small ones solution.
and this becomes even more unlikely if you re not aware of the big problems!
if they were to fix factions in 8 days (lol. own testing. lol. lol. lol.), they better start informing people now to get their stuff out of pirate territory...
this will have major implications on sentryguns and bist mining...
having more of the same dumb npc won t improve missions at all!!! (ever attacked a covoy???)
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Othnark
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Posted - 2003.10.20 11:11:00 -
[35]
Quote:
- The station UI will now show only available agents at that station. The People & Places window is where you want to store the agents you like (i.e. just use the add to adressbook option to put them in there).
So conceivably there is the possibility that we lose track fo our agents? Suppose we delete someone from our address book, how then can we ever find him again? Are there plans for having some sort of master list of all your agents?
-Othnark
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GraveDigger
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Posted - 2003.10.20 11:33:00 -
[36]
no lvl 4 agents next patch? what a bummer :(
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Barbicane
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Posted - 2003.10.20 11:49:00 -
[37]
Quote:
Quote:
- The station UI will now show only available agents at that station. The People & Places window is where you want to store the agents you like (i.e. just use the add to adressbook option to put them in there).
So conceivably there is the possibility that we lose track fo our agents? Suppose we delete someone from our address book, how then can we ever find him again? Are there plans for having some sort of master list of all your agents?
Exactly my concern too. Since I have 30+ agents, I don't want all of them to clutter up my address book so I delete the ones I don't currently use. Once in a while I need to get in touch with one of them so I go to the station's agent UI to find the complete listing. Please make it possible to find a master list of all our agents somewhere.
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Steini OFSI
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Posted - 2003.10.20 11:49:00 -
[38]
Zrakor what will happen to people who've gotten lvl 4 agent through a lvl 2 because of bugs? I'll be damned if I do 200+ missions for a lvl 3 agent if they did only 80-100 for a lvl 2 and got jumpstarted to a lvl 4.
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Draka
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Posted - 2003.10.20 12:36:00 -
[39]
Just to set the record straight - I am looking forward to the Minmatar event alluded to via ingame news about the Sebiestor-Krusual political events and the coming attempt for a "Vote of no confidence" in the existing prime Minister. To that end, I have spent the last month of play time nearly exclusively looking for and adding to my network of Minmatar Agents. I currently have at least one Agent from all four Minmatar Tribes, all five Minmatar Government Corporations (Republic Fleet, etc.) and three out of the seven Minmatar Commercial Corporations (Six Kin Development, etc.).
I am actively working on ALL of them and started working on and building up my Agent network LONG before Implants, BPs or any other reward for running Agent Missions came in the game, just to position myself for good roleplaying as a Minmatar Republic citizen.
HELL YES I AM WORRIED ABOUT KEEPING, MAINTAINING AND IMPROVING MY STANDINGS!!!!!!
CEO
The Cinnaban Order
"Dedicated to a Free Minmatar Republic" |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.20 12:41:00 -
[40]
"Suppose we delete someone from our address book, how then can we ever find him again? Are there plans for having some sort of master list of all your agents?"
... There's already map filter in the game which shows location of all the agents you have in the galaxy...
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Viconia DeVir
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Posted - 2003.10.20 12:44:00 -
[41]
All changes sound great except for this one....
- Level 4-5 missions. They will be geared towards corporations more than individuals, and will have much better rewards.
Please do not force grouping into the missions as this would wreck the agent missions for all of the solo players who currently play, which I would take a guess that it is about half the server player base.
Make them hard yes, but not group only.
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Hizac Neutin
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Posted - 2003.10.20 12:53:00 -
[42]
Quote:
j0 - wasnt the agent silence down to all standings having been set to zero?
Morkt, I tried creating a new character on chaos (had effective faction standing with the tutorial agent of 10). I still didn't get offered a tutorial mission either.
Of course things might have changed, I'll try again tonight to double check.
What I do hope is that the other agent skills such as negotiation are also available on the market when the new patch gets introduced.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.20 13:09:00 -
[43]
"I currently have at least one Agent from all four Minmatar Tribes, all five Minmatar Government Corporations (Republic Fleet, etc.) and three out of the seven Minmatar Commercial Corporations (Six Kin Development, etc.).
I am actively working on ALL of them and started working on and building up my Agent network LONG before Implants, BPs or any other reward for running Agent Missions came in the game, just to position myself for good roleplaying as a Minmatar Republic citizen.
HELL YES I AM WORRIED ABOUT KEEPING, MAINTAINING AND IMPROVING MY STANDINGS!!!!!!"
... Given all your agents are of Minmatar faction, maintaining their positive opinion on you shouldn't be very difficult -- doing missions for any of them will improve the Minmatar faction which they all share and use to determine your 'value', non? o.O
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Aissa
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Posted - 2003.10.20 13:49:00 -
[44]
Agents will rely almost totally on player standing towards them, their corporation and their faction + Agent missions will mostly use standing pre-requirements, instead of the old "mission success count".
A good change, and this is what Papa Smurf alluded to waaaaay back when the whole discussion about the faction standing system came up.
Just make sure that there is sufficient balance of factions that dislike the 4 major empires, and move CONCORD to its own Corp standing as opposed to Security Status = CONCORD Corp standing. This interacts badly with Agent 'Gifts' (aka Bribes). One of the two should really change, ideally both.
The basic implant missions will be in the form of courier missions for most of the factions, not trade missions + No more "give me 10 tritanium for 50000 ISK missions + Lots of new npc kill and scenario missions with lots of more loot drops, especially in the kill missions + The old blueprint missions have changed so that they give a random blueprint copy + A few missions are sequential
= more good changes that make sense.
<cliche>Variety is the spice of life.</cliche>
We are slowly dropping the concept of "trade missions" in their current form. Instead we will eventually move them to the black market system
These were missions that made sense actually (before the robber barons showed up and @#3%ed the market), but with the move to the black market system could prove to be entertaining.
We'll have to wait and see since all factions were wiped on Chaos 
Standings will slowly decay + The station UI will now show only available agents at that station
Desperately needed, great changes. Can we get folders for agents in the address book? Please? 
Level 4-5 missions. They will be geared towards corporations more than individuals, and will have much better rewards + Research agents, which will hand out tech level II blueprints through an agent service. They will probably be level 4-5 agents.
Two major concerns:
A) The economy is so very fragile in the game, it is probably far better to stick to the limited run BPCs and tack on ME/PE levels. Original BPs, by necessity, must be exceptionally rare - as in no more than two or three in the universe. Deploying one of the handful of originals via the agent system would be good, but they cannot supply original BPs into the economy as was seen with the Miner II BP. It just results in the bottoming out of the market.
B) Don't limit the level 4 and 5 to just individuals within the same corp - try to find a way so that a gang of corps X Y and Z can do these kinds of missions and all share equally in the reward. It would make sense that NPC corps wouldn't care what corp is working for them - for the most part - from a corporate standpoint, as long as everyone involved has the standings (individual and corporate) to do so. If an agent has 4 of their highest standing operatives from corps they regard well it should be a non-issue for the agent to offer them a mission.
~Aissa
Nomad, Dictionary and Encyclopedia of The Regulators |
Ariel N'barr
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Posted - 2003.10.20 14:22:00 -
[45]
Rather than limiting the station gui to show only agents at that station simply change it to sort those to the top. All your agents would still be listed but the ones in your current location would be much easier to find.
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2003.10.20 14:54:00 -
[46]
Quote:
- The old blueprint missions have changed so that they give a random blueprint copy (i.e. limited uses) and are no longer only "once per character". The agents are generally not very happy with the current system where people simply use them to get a bp then turn their back on them.
Once per character?? So it's no use for me to do missions for my other lvl 3 agent, hoping to receive another BP?
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Elad Baan
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Posted - 2003.10.20 15:28:00 -
[47]
Is there going to be actual "storylines" to the missions ? Sequential missions could create a little story of their own, but are there going to be any stuff actually happening during a mission ? (right now you start the mission, achieve ONE goal, and that's it, the mission's finished).
Cool ideas for the game - New mission types - Group missions - Planets and the market |
Ian Wagner
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Posted - 2003.10.20 16:58:00 -
[48]
Quote:
Edited by: Zrakor on 20/10/2003 00:21:03
- Level 4-5 missions. They will be geared towards corporations more than individuals, and will have much better rewards.
I also would prefer that level 4-5 missions be oriented more towards the individual than corp. Agent missions, as has already been noted, are one of the few area's in EVE where a freelancer can compete effectively with a corper. While corped myself, I do not wish to see that taken away from them.
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Pirindolo
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Posted - 2003.10.20 17:10:00 -
[49]
Quote:
Quote:
Edited by: Zrakor on 20/10/2003 00:21:03
- Level 4-5 missions. They will be geared towards corporations more than individuals, and will have much better rewards.
I also would prefer that level 4-5 missions be oriented more towards the individual than corp. Agent missions, as has already been noted, are one of the few area's in EVE where a freelancer can compete effectively with a corper. While corped myself, I do not wish to see that taken away from them.
Totally agreed
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Ian Wagner
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Posted - 2003.10.20 17:24:00 -
[50]
Quote:
Edited by: Zrakor on 20/10/2003 00:21:03
- Research agents, which will hand out tech level II blueprints through an agent service. They will probably be level 4-5 agents.
Another agent function I would like to see would be "Surplus Agent", that allows you to purchase a faction appropriate item/ship for mineral cost or below on an appropriate timer.
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Jerrod Syn
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Posted - 2003.10.20 18:11:00 -
[51]
Quote:
Rather than limiting the station gui to show only agents at that station simply change it to sort those to the top. All your agents would still be listed but the ones in your current location would be much easier to find.
Or a subtab like the one in Assets where you can see global and local assets. Have one for Global and Local agents.
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Headd
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Posted - 2003.10.20 18:22:00 -
[52]
I think these are all good changes, I'd just be very careful with:
"- Standings will slowly decay. The various factions in the game do not like you forever if you forget about them. "
Some observations:
1. This better not be a linear decay. in other words, this should be an accelerating decay. If you don't do something for a corp in a day you might lose (for example, just throwing numbers out there) 0.001 the next day you lose an additional 0.002 etc (capped at some point). So if I wait a really long time, it it'll start snowballing. I just dont want to lose 0.1 every day and will have to keep babysitting crappy level 1 and 2 agents. There's smart people in these forums, post how fast the decay will be and you'll probably get good feedback.
2. I really hope this is an overall very slow decay.
3. Since concord faction = security, will security decay as well? If so, see 2.
4. Negative rating players will be able to get their security fixed through agents up to 0.0 and get a concord agent immediately. If the concord agent accepts bribes, there's a good possibility of exploit there. Either unlink concord standing and security or make it so that bribing an agent has a chance of backfiring (losing security for trying to bribe concord doesn't sound unrealistic).
5. Location services for level 3 agents! I have an agent that does this, but he never has anything. I think it's an awesome service for the low level agent.
I have complete confidence in you guys (and appreciate the fact that you're communicating with us on this), just keep in mind some of the possible repercussions when implementing the new system and try to address them.
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Delinia Salrso
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Posted - 2003.10.20 18:39:00 -
[53]
I understand the concerns people have about lvl 4-5 agents being corp based, and I agree that people should be able to climb the corporate ladder by themselves. However, I really like the idea of having missions that require a group's effort to achieve. I don't want to lose out on the chance to coordinate and strategize with gang mates in order to complete a mission. I know Zrakor said "geared for corporations", but perhaps just a gang could do this.
It makes sense to me that there would be higher level agents that gear towards subcontracting out to an individual a set of goals and it's up to that individual to accomplish them by parceling them out to his team in order to complete the project on time. Sort of like what a builder does with his sub-contractors and the sub-contractors do with their employees.
With no specifics on how this would work it's hard to say though. Do you form a gang and everyone in the gang gets a piece of the pie? Does one person in a corp get access to the mission and then everyone in that corp helps achieve the objectives and the spoils go to the corporate wallet and/or the corporate hangar at the station where the agent presides?
On another note, I think it's also incorrect to say, "We don't want lvl4 and lvl5 missions to be corp related because that's not fair to individuals." How is that fair to corps, or people that want more large scale planning operations in the game? Why does everything have to be fair? I'm in a small corp and we probably couldn't pull off a mission that requires more than 2-3 people to complete, but that doesn't mean I think there shouldn't be something that'd require 10 people to complete. And if we could, we'd try to contract out for the extra help.
I'm for the most part a loner player, but it's ludicrous to me that players that don't want to join a corporation feel they should be able to compete on the scale that a large corporation can, or even have access to everything that a large corporation has access to. In life some things require team work to accomplish, end of story. Try building a hydroelectric dam by yourself, cure cancer all by yourself, rebuild an occupied country by yourself...
I think the answer to this is single player missions and group missions should be separate entities or at least distinguishable from each other if possible so they can be skipped.
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loladoll
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Posted - 2003.10.20 18:40:00 -
[54]
like the changes except -like mentioned by other people- the gearing towards corp based missions for lvl 4 and 5 agents
Im a freelancer, and i like that. i have to work for a big corporation in RL already.
i want escapism, not realism in this regard 
______________________________________
live is tough and then you get a clone |
Zrakor
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Posted - 2003.10.20 21:28:00 -
[55]
The level 4 agents (and possibly 5 as well) will still give out "freelancer" missions, alongside their more group / corp oriented missions. But expect them to require a powerful ship with expensive equipment to complete, or a friend or two.
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Delinia Salrso
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Posted - 2003.10.20 22:26:00 -
[56]
Thanks for the response Zrakor, I think this is a happy medium that hopefully will make everybody at least a little happy.
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Cabaeran
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Posted - 2003.10.20 22:32:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Cabaeran on 20/10/2003 22:33:49
(wanders into wishlist territory)
Perhaps agent AI will have chance of telling the difference between players from other corporations doing missions, and players that are actually members of the agents corps. I get really annoyed at times at all my Caldari Navy agents referring to me as freelancer. 
Also.. perhaps.. Some special missions for those that actually are members of the agents NPC corps, and remain for more than just a mission or hundred? 
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Nirces Y'Tuk
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Posted - 2003.10.20 23:39:00 -
[58]
This is a MMOPRG game, its not a single player game, tasks and objecttives that force people to work togeather and interact is a good thing not a bad.
I agree with a previous poster, igher level missions should be given out like level the lower ones, but just have very large tasks, that is virtually impossible for a player to complete alone, but let the player decide how to sub contact (weather to friends, strangers, corp etc)
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Ansuul
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Posted - 2003.10.21 03:28:00 -
[59]
About the UI, the only agents that need to be in the station UI are agents located at that station (which is what this post says will be there), but also agents that you have active missions with. If you have both these features, the station agent UI will be lean and to the point.
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Fritz Ionar
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Posted - 2003.10.21 10:18:00 -
[60]
Quote:
Perhaps agent AI will have chance of telling the difference between players from other corporations doing missions, and players that are actually members of the agents corps.
No AI needed, just add two options for the agents, the standard "I need some thing to do" and the corp dito "Me and my mates are bored and need something to do". That way you can allways chose wether you want a "singleplayer" mission or a corp mission. |
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