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Zrakor
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:00:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Zrakor on 17/12/2003 19:09:25
Edited by: Zrakor on 30/10/2003 20:28:17
I've noticed alot of confusion about the new agent system and some issues with the old system such as the blueprint and implant missions. I normally try not to reveal much about the specifics of the agents, as I feel players should discover these things by themselves, but I'll make an exception this time due to the system changing so dramatically.
Here are some of the new things which will be implemented with the new agent system AND things to come (which might or might not make it in the next patch):
- Agents will rely almost totally on player standing towards them, their corporation and their faction. For example, if a player has 0 standing to a faction, he will be able to recieve missions from every level 1 agent of that faction of a certain quality. As his standing increases, higher quality and eventually higher level agents of that faction will want to deal with him and allow him to use their services. The player can raise his standing with as many factions as he wants, but keeping them all happy is virtually an impossible task, since when he gains standing to faction A, he will lose standing to the enemy of faction A (faction B and C).
- More rare loot added into the rewards for completing certain agent missions, such as unique modules which cannot be produced in a factory (i.e. no blueprints for them are available). The ISK rewards have also been beefed up over the board.
- The Jovian Empire and Concord factions have closed the services of their agents, for now. The people who finished loads of missions for either of these factions will recieve adequate standing with another agent of a faction that is open. High personal standing allows the player to use them despite a low corp/faction standing. To find them, check your standings table in the character sheet.
- The basic implant missions will be in the form of courier missions for most of the factions, not trade missions. The old implant trade missions will still be in the game, they just will have other loot as a reward instead of an implant. The attribue giving implants will be given per corporation type, instead of per faction.
- No more "give me 10 tritanium for 50000 ISK missions (which didn't make any sense). Agents will ask for much more minerals or ore, and won't pay a rediculous amount for cheap minerals. However by raising your standing and social skills and dealing with high quality agents you can raise the reward of these missions considerably.
- Agent missions will mostly use standing pre-requirements, instead of the old "mission success count". We also intend to change the success count concept to "per faction" instead of to "per agent" eventually, but I'm not positive if that change will make it before the next patch.
- We are slowly dropping the concept of "trade missions" in their current form. Instead we will eventually move them to the black market system (which won't make it in the next patch but will most likely make it in the one after that, some of the current trade missions, like the ally in need missions, have been switched to courier). This means agents will ask for items, but it won't be in the form of a normal mission, it will be more of a market service where certain agents want to buy certain items.
- Lots of new npc kill and scenario missions. We also beefed them up over the board, so you might find the level 3 kill missions quite a bit harder than before. The beauty of the new system though is that if you aren't up to doing those missions, you can always just visit the less-combat mission heavy agents. With so many agents at your disposal, if you don't like a mission someone offers, just try the next one.
- Agents in the more combat oriented corporation types will be more likely to dish out npc kill missions than the other agents.
- Lots of more loot drops, especially in the kill missions. But also the occasional courier mission will have a random loot drop. Most of the new loot drops will be via loot tables, i.e. there will be randomness involved in the loot you get.
- The station UI will now show only available agents at that station. The People & Places window is where you want to store the agents you like (i.e. just use the add to adressbook option to put them in there).
- The old blueprint missions have changed so that they give a random blueprint copy (i.e. limited uses) and are no longer only "once per character". The agents are generally not very happy with the current system where people simply use them to get a bp then turn their back on them.
- Standings will slowly decay. The various factions in the game do not like you forever if you forget about them. What this means basically is that you will need to do things for your faction every now and then to keep your standing up. By far the best way to raise st
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Revy
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:05:00 -
[2]
Sounds good 
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Muaddid
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:10:00 -
[3]
interesting... any idea when this major patch will come ? a week ? 3 weeks ? for such a system you must still have a general idea of how long itll take to weed the bugs out, no ? :)
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Ayar Cachi
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:11:00 -
[4]
Wow, kickass post Zrakor. Thanks for providing info on all the changes and some timeline *estimates*.
If you read the replies, here are my questions:
1) Agent People & Places UI. Is this getting any attention? Sorting based on faction, standings, quality? User-defined *folders* like the Bookmarks have (er, used to have ;)
2) What's happening to our current standings? I don't mean the display number, I mean the *effective* standing numbers to agents and factions and corps that we've developed over time while playing the game. Maintained but used in the new scheme? Effectively reset? Adjusted and then used in the new scheme?
Well, thanks. I love seeing communication with users via the official forums.
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Zrakor
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:13:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Zrakor on 20/11/2003 16:33:37
Continuation of the topic:
- A few missions are sequential, i.e. you are required to finish mission A to have a chance of getting mission B. This system wasn't being used alot in the old system. Usually these sequential missions are faction or corporation type specific.
- Research agents, which will hand out tech level II blueprints through an agent service. They WILL make it in the next patch.
Things to come which definately wont make it in the next patch:
- More types of implants (other than attribue giving implants) and boosters (drugs which can affect your character's abilities and attributes, not to be confused with the commodity drugs).
- Level 4-5 missions. They will be geared towards corporations and individuals, and will have much better rewards.
That's all for now (I might be forgetting something, but I'll try and keep you posted). Also note that anything listed here may change in the future. I just don't like to keep you completely in the dark ;).
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Zrakor
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:18:00 -
[6]
 Quote:
Wow, kickass post Zrakor. Thanks for providing info on all the changes and some timeline *estimates*.
If you read the replies, here are my questions:
1) Agent People & Places UI. Is this getting any attention? Sorting based on faction, standings, quality? User-defined *folders* like the Bookmarks have (er, used to have ;)
2) What's happening to our current standings? I don't mean the display number, I mean the *effective* standing numbers to agents and factions and corps that we've developed over time while playing the game. Maintained but used in the new scheme? Effectively reset? Adjusted and then used in the new scheme?
Well, thanks. I love seeing communication with users via the official forums.
I'll check with the UI programmer about the P&P window tomorrow.
I'm not certain what will happen to the current standings, but you won't be able to keep your 10 in faction standing unless you work for it. We don't intend to allow people to simply jump to level 5 agents with little work involved. So do expect some loss of standing if you have an abnormally high standing.
But you won't lose your current agents, so if you have a level 3 agent in a faction you will probably be raised to somewhere around 4-6 in standing to that faction so that you will be able to keep the agent when the new system is implemented.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:19:00 -
[7]
Edited by: j0sephine on 20/10/2003 00:20:24
"Wild guess: 8-10 days. Just maybe the end of this week, but I'm not giving out any promises."
... That sounds rather too soon, given the new scripted agent system didn't undergo any user tests... as the Chaos server was down and on those rare moments it was up, people were reporting no agents would speak to them whatsoever... o.O
Other than that, the info sounds great... looking forward to see how it actually works out. :s
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:25:00 -
[8]
j0 - wasnt the agent silence down to all standings having been set to zero?
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Muaddid
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:26:00 -
[9]
aye, for such a big change 8-10 days... 
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Zrakor
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:26:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Zrakor on 20/10/2003 00:26:50
Quote:
Edited by: j0sephine on 20/10/2003 00:20:24
"Wild guess: 8-10 days. Just maybe the end of this week, but I'm not giving out any promises."
... That sounds rather too soon, given the new scripted agent system didn't undergo any user tests... as the Chaos server was down and on those rare moments it was up, people were reporting no agents would speak to them whatsoever... o.O
Other than that, the info sounds great... looking forward to see how it actually works out. :s
We will be making a concentrated effort on testing the new system next week. Chaos isn't the only server we test on, but you're right about our bughunter team not being able to test them at all. This will be remedy'd tomorrow. 8-10 days is being very optimistic of course  .
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:36:00 -
[11]
Edited by: j0sephine on 20/10/2003 00:38:22
"j0 - wasnt the agent silence down to all standings having been set to zero?"
Aye, possible but if i understand it correctly having the standings at 0.0 should still allow one to access missions from at least some low quality lvl.1 agents... and the problem was no agent was answering to the 'Talk to' option at all, which sounds either like a bug or the result of Chaos server being really, really slow... o.O
I'd be happy to be able to check things myself, but for the last couple of builds the beta client doesn't react to 'return' key nor to click on the 'connect' button on the login screen anymore. 9.9
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Sabahl
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:49:00 -
[12]
Here is a consideration I have just discovered. On some of the kill missions you will actually lose faction with the corporation's own faction based upon the type of target you are told to go kill. For instance, Thukker Mix agents sending out characters to kill angels will result in a loss of faction towards Thukker Mix.
Something to think about nd possibly work on coding around as it really makes no sense at all.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:50:00 -
[13]
Quote:
Here is a consideration I have just discovered. On some of the kill missions you will actually lose faction with the corporation's own faction based upon the type of target you are told to go kill. For instance, Thukker Mix agents sending out characters to kill angels will result in a loss of faction towards Thukker Mix.
Something to think about nd possibly work on coding around as it really makes no sense at all.
Buy a copy of NWN - use built-in faction tracking system - voila! 
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hainnas
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:54:00 -
[14]
Awesome update, thanks Zrakor.
Question, you said the kill missions will be "beefed up", will this include some harder pirates (greater than 50k bounties... maybe even... bships?)?
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Muaddid
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Posted - 2003.10.20 01:00:00 -
[15]
this post should get a sticky btw :P
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Tharrn
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Posted - 2003.10.20 01:19:00 -
[16]
This sounds awesome and would make perfect sense if it works :)
It also resolved a petition I had just filed...narf ;)
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Supersonix
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Posted - 2003.10.20 01:23:00 -
[17]
Great post. Really nice to at last hear something from the dev's on the forums.
Support the Alternative market proposition. Clicky clicky. |
Halo Jones
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Posted - 2003.10.20 01:34:00 -
[18]
This is excellent information, there is only so much patch notes cna cover, there are only so many changes players can figure out immediately, when a gaming are ais being improved so much, it is really wonderful to have such quality information prior to the event.
Good posting Zrakor, thx.
Oberon Incorporated. |
dalman
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Posted - 2003.10.20 02:11:00 -
[19]
I see nothing about "pirate factions".
Is the work done on them or is that for later patches? And if the work is done, does that mean they will start handing out boosters (like others give implants) after this patch?
However, the changes sounds very good
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Archemedes
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Posted - 2003.10.20 02:24:00 -
[20]
I have to say, this sounds great. Sure the original BPs are nice, but getting limited-run BPs more than once per agent (without having to do 300 more L3 missions) will be fine ESPECIALLY if they are randomized. Maybe the Amarr players will actually visit their agents once they know a limited Miner 2 copy and a NON-Charisma implant are possible. 
As far as the L4-L5 agent missions go, PLEASE don't make them require a large group though! Agent missions are one of the few places a freelancer or small corp can compete... if you need half a dozen people online at once to do a L5 agent then that lets out small corps who only HAVE 10 people total (since there won't be more than 3 or 4 logged in at a given time). Or at least make them MUCH more rewarding and MUCH longer-lasting so the corp can set up a group to do it...
Of course, large corps really shouldn't be doing agent missions at all. They should be GIVING agent missions! Any thoughts on letting PC megacorps make their OWN agent missions? Perhaps Techell or Hadean Drive Yards could develop a new Tech 2 ship (at a very high cost) and then give out BP copies as a mission reward for large mineral supply missions or something... or Space Invaders could give out kill missions targeting corps they are at war with but are too busy to attack at the moment. After all, it's got to be hard to keep track of THAT many enemies...
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Riose Bel
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Posted - 2003.10.20 02:35:00 -
[21]
If my faction status should go under 4.00 will i lose all my liv 3 contacts?
This would scared me a lot 
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tameron
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Posted - 2003.10.20 02:48:00 -
[22]
For the Individual who whants nothing to do with working for a palyer corp this is a mixed bag of good and bad , I like the idea of improvements to the current systems ,but as a dedicated frelance worker i feel dissapionted that i may not get the chance to work for higher agents .
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Draka
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Posted - 2003.10.20 03:15:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Draka on 20/10/2003 03:16:53
Let me ask for clarification on one overriding point - I have a Corporation Standing with Republic Security Service of 6.0, a Corporation Standing of 2.0 with the Brutor Tribe, am currently working on the Six Kin Development Corporation (Minmatar Faction) and have an overall Minmatar Faction standing of 5.87. I have MANY Minmatar faction Agents (20 plus) ranging from Level 1 to Level 3. Exactly WHICH Minmatar standings will be reset by this change?
I really don't care about the other factions - but I am working really hard to maximize any and all Minmatar ones. I am concerned that the overall Minmatar faction will be capped by the highest Minmatar Corporation Standing, or any other cap once the Agent limiting cap is gone.
CEO
The Cinnaban Order
"Dedicated to a Free Minmatar Republic" |
Kalki Nibiru
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Posted - 2003.10.20 06:30:00 -
[24]
Please oh please tell me that the time limits for level 3 agents will be gone. Doing level 3 agent missions for me is very time consuming, I'm not a power gamer, I barely get to play an hour a day and I'm hearing of people doing 50 level 3 agent missions and still not getting implants; 50*15=750 Mins or 12.5 hours. To me that seems unreasonable for people who want to get the rewards, but dont have the time to play.
Sure the rewards shouldnt be handed out quickly, but agent missions are boring and tedious, their rewards are largely worthless with the exception of implants and some blue prints. Personally, I have done around 100 missions for one level 2 agent (probably a little over 500 missions total for all agents) and I can tell you that it took me a long time to do those 100 missions, if I got an implant every 65 missions succeeded, that would be fair as doing 65 missions still takes a lot of time.
I understand that rewards wont be based off of mission successes anymore, and I'm not quite sure I understand the new "pre-requisite" system, but I urge you to find some way to get rid of the time limit delay. I know it would be hard to ballance things, but it would at least make it fair. I bought eve because unlike other games, I dont need to play a majority of the day to compete with other people.
Even if you cant do what I ask, please post to tell me you have read what I have typed.
Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate
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<Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market?
<Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.10.20 06:55:00 -
[25]
Quote:
The old blueprint missions have changed so that they give a random blueprint copy (i.e. limited uses) and are no longer only "once per character".
Have changed, have changed!! Already, well thanks a lot, can I have a cup of poison with that dagger?
Convert Stations
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Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2003.10.20 07:12:00 -
[26]
time delay is fine. yes, theyre boring, but the point is to make them interesting, not insta and pointless.
On another concern is the player corp to npc corp rating. Will that still be there? Will other players in your corp mess up your gurista agent relations because they shoot gurista npcs?
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
Kalki Nibiru
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Posted - 2003.10.20 07:30:00 -
[27]
How are they intersting? They are by far the most mundane and useless tasks, this is exacerbated by the fact that the rewards are insignificant.
Lets say that it takes 50 missions to get an implant (which it seems is not the case) that would mean you would have to do missions for that agent for 12.5 hours straight. And what do you get for the other missions you completed? Nothing worth mentioning thats for sure.
With the system as it is, it would take me almost two weeks to get an implant.
Dont get me wrong here, there needs to some effort put in, but currently these missions arent interesting. If they made the missions enjoyable and offered decent rewards I wouldnt be complaining, but they dont, at least not if you cant play 5-6 hours a day.
Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate
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<Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market?
<Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with |
Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2003.10.20 07:37:00 -
[28]
I didnt say they were interesting, I said to make them interesting. time delay is beside the point, removing that wont make them interesting. yes, then you can do more, but I didnt care about that part.
And its also less relevent with the upcomming changes arent they? Theyre moving away from doing X total missions to get X implants and towards pure standing based system. So its less important now to do alot of missions very fast, I think...
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
McWatt
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Posted - 2003.10.20 07:44:00 -
[29]
lol
nothing special, but the crowd starts cheering.
all critical voices are limited to the "what wil happen to my standings" whine.
without wanting to give any tips,
to make real missions you ll need:
1. some AI on NPC
2. a working faction system
again ccp is basing new stuff on a system that s not in game yet (remember missiles/agility?)
i see a causal chain running from the accidential drop of a miner v ending (?) here.
this is bs. start the **** working on important issues
and turn that ******* priority list of yours upside down.
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Siegfried Tron
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Posted - 2003.10.20 07:52:00 -
[30]
As you can see, they are improving the faction system, so your issue #2 will probably be solved (this time or next).
NPC AI? It seems to me that a PC AI is much more needed.
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Kalki Nibiru
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Posted - 2003.10.20 08:01:00 -
[31]
The time delay is still very relavent. Even though I have conceded that I know they are moving away from the old system, and into a standing "pre-requisite" system, the time puts more people at a disadvantage.
I can only raise my standing every 15 mins, for example I do very little agent missions due to my total play time, in an hour, I could get 4 done at best. So while I'm whittling away trying to do agent missions through the week, someone who power-games has their standings very high, and as they continue to do missions, they continue to get good rewards as their standing is high, and gets higher, while I and many others struggle to get our standing to a level where we can receive good rewards.
Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate
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<Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market?
<Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with |
Tharrn
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Posted - 2003.10.20 08:03:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Tharrn on 20/10/2003 08:03:51
I hope you did not forget about casual players in your concept. If standings decay too fast or to zero it will be virtually impossible to get good agents for them. Or what about extended leaves like hollidays? If I'd return after two weeks to find all of my standings decayed back to zero that would be a major bummer.
In Jumpgate you can get a maximum standing of 125 with the factions but they never decay down below 100 plus they only decay during your online time.
Having them decay down to a 'good' standing only makes sense, too, as you might be inactive for that faction but have still been an asset for them.
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JPFAmarr
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Posted - 2003.10.20 08:11:00 -
[33]
You may want to consider "grandfathering" in the existing unlimited BP missions that many many people have been working hard towards. If the intent is to keep people coming back to do more with that agent then other BPC awards sound good...problem solved. Just be careful not to anger a great many people that are working towards the current unlimited BPs.
Generic Corporation |
McWatt
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Posted - 2003.10.20 09:08:00 -
[34]
Edited by: McWatt on 20/10/2003 09:10:34
Quote:
As you can see, they are improving the faction system, so your issue #2 will probably be solved (this time or next).
NPC AI? It seems to me that a PC AI is much more needed.
player ai has been improved a lot by implants recently.
solved like agility was by missiles?
if you ve got a big problem, you will rarely solve it as a by-product of a small ones solution.
and this becomes even more unlikely if you re not aware of the big problems!
if they were to fix factions in 8 days (lol. own testing. lol. lol. lol.), they better start informing people now to get their stuff out of pirate territory...
this will have major implications on sentryguns and bist mining...
having more of the same dumb npc won t improve missions at all!!! (ever attacked a covoy???)
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Othnark
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Posted - 2003.10.20 11:11:00 -
[35]
Quote:
- The station UI will now show only available agents at that station. The People & Places window is where you want to store the agents you like (i.e. just use the add to adressbook option to put them in there).
So conceivably there is the possibility that we lose track fo our agents? Suppose we delete someone from our address book, how then can we ever find him again? Are there plans for having some sort of master list of all your agents?
-Othnark
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GraveDigger
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Posted - 2003.10.20 11:33:00 -
[36]
no lvl 4 agents next patch? what a bummer :(
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Barbicane
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Posted - 2003.10.20 11:49:00 -
[37]
Quote:
Quote:
- The station UI will now show only available agents at that station. The People & Places window is where you want to store the agents you like (i.e. just use the add to adressbook option to put them in there).
So conceivably there is the possibility that we lose track fo our agents? Suppose we delete someone from our address book, how then can we ever find him again? Are there plans for having some sort of master list of all your agents?
Exactly my concern too. Since I have 30+ agents, I don't want all of them to clutter up my address book so I delete the ones I don't currently use. Once in a while I need to get in touch with one of them so I go to the station's agent UI to find the complete listing. Please make it possible to find a master list of all our agents somewhere.
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Steini OFSI
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Posted - 2003.10.20 11:49:00 -
[38]
Zrakor what will happen to people who've gotten lvl 4 agent through a lvl 2 because of bugs? I'll be damned if I do 200+ missions for a lvl 3 agent if they did only 80-100 for a lvl 2 and got jumpstarted to a lvl 4.
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Draka
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Posted - 2003.10.20 12:36:00 -
[39]
Just to set the record straight - I am looking forward to the Minmatar event alluded to via ingame news about the Sebiestor-Krusual political events and the coming attempt for a "Vote of no confidence" in the existing prime Minister. To that end, I have spent the last month of play time nearly exclusively looking for and adding to my network of Minmatar Agents. I currently have at least one Agent from all four Minmatar Tribes, all five Minmatar Government Corporations (Republic Fleet, etc.) and three out of the seven Minmatar Commercial Corporations (Six Kin Development, etc.).
I am actively working on ALL of them and started working on and building up my Agent network LONG before Implants, BPs or any other reward for running Agent Missions came in the game, just to position myself for good roleplaying as a Minmatar Republic citizen.
HELL YES I AM WORRIED ABOUT KEEPING, MAINTAINING AND IMPROVING MY STANDINGS!!!!!!
CEO
The Cinnaban Order
"Dedicated to a Free Minmatar Republic" |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.20 12:41:00 -
[40]
"Suppose we delete someone from our address book, how then can we ever find him again? Are there plans for having some sort of master list of all your agents?"
... There's already map filter in the game which shows location of all the agents you have in the galaxy...
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Viconia DeVir
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Posted - 2003.10.20 12:44:00 -
[41]
All changes sound great except for this one....
- Level 4-5 missions. They will be geared towards corporations more than individuals, and will have much better rewards.
Please do not force grouping into the missions as this would wreck the agent missions for all of the solo players who currently play, which I would take a guess that it is about half the server player base.
Make them hard yes, but not group only.
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Hizac Neutin
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Posted - 2003.10.20 12:53:00 -
[42]
Quote:
j0 - wasnt the agent silence down to all standings having been set to zero?
Morkt, I tried creating a new character on chaos (had effective faction standing with the tutorial agent of 10). I still didn't get offered a tutorial mission either.
Of course things might have changed, I'll try again tonight to double check.
What I do hope is that the other agent skills such as negotiation are also available on the market when the new patch gets introduced.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.20 13:09:00 -
[43]
"I currently have at least one Agent from all four Minmatar Tribes, all five Minmatar Government Corporations (Republic Fleet, etc.) and three out of the seven Minmatar Commercial Corporations (Six Kin Development, etc.).
I am actively working on ALL of them and started working on and building up my Agent network LONG before Implants, BPs or any other reward for running Agent Missions came in the game, just to position myself for good roleplaying as a Minmatar Republic citizen.
HELL YES I AM WORRIED ABOUT KEEPING, MAINTAINING AND IMPROVING MY STANDINGS!!!!!!"
... Given all your agents are of Minmatar faction, maintaining their positive opinion on you shouldn't be very difficult -- doing missions for any of them will improve the Minmatar faction which they all share and use to determine your 'value', non? o.O
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Aissa
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Posted - 2003.10.20 13:49:00 -
[44]
Agents will rely almost totally on player standing towards them, their corporation and their faction + Agent missions will mostly use standing pre-requirements, instead of the old "mission success count".
A good change, and this is what Papa Smurf alluded to waaaaay back when the whole discussion about the faction standing system came up.
Just make sure that there is sufficient balance of factions that dislike the 4 major empires, and move CONCORD to its own Corp standing as opposed to Security Status = CONCORD Corp standing. This interacts badly with Agent 'Gifts' (aka Bribes). One of the two should really change, ideally both.
The basic implant missions will be in the form of courier missions for most of the factions, not trade missions + No more "give me 10 tritanium for 50000 ISK missions + Lots of new npc kill and scenario missions with lots of more loot drops, especially in the kill missions + The old blueprint missions have changed so that they give a random blueprint copy + A few missions are sequential
= more good changes that make sense.
<cliche>Variety is the spice of life.</cliche>
We are slowly dropping the concept of "trade missions" in their current form. Instead we will eventually move them to the black market system
These were missions that made sense actually (before the robber barons showed up and @#3%ed the market), but with the move to the black market system could prove to be entertaining.
We'll have to wait and see since all factions were wiped on Chaos 
Standings will slowly decay + The station UI will now show only available agents at that station
Desperately needed, great changes. Can we get folders for agents in the address book? Please?
Level 4-5 missions. They will be geared towards corporations more than individuals, and will have much better rewards + Research agents, which will hand out tech level II blueprints through an agent service. They will probably be level 4-5 agents.
Two major concerns:
A) The economy is so very fragile in the game, it is probably far better to stick to the limited run BPCs and tack on ME/PE levels. Original BPs, by necessity, must be exceptionally rare - as in no more than two or three in the universe. Deploying one of the handful of originals via the agent system would be good, but they cannot supply original BPs into the economy as was seen with the Miner II BP. It just results in the bottoming out of the market.
B) Don't limit the level 4 and 5 to just individuals within the same corp - try to find a way so that a gang of corps X Y and Z can do these kinds of missions and all share equally in the reward. It would make sense that NPC corps wouldn't care what corp is working for them - for the most part - from a corporate standpoint, as long as everyone involved has the standings (individual and corporate) to do so. If an agent has 4 of their highest standing operatives from corps they regard well it should be a non-issue for the agent to offer them a mission.
~Aissa
Nomad, Dictionary and Encyclopedia of The Regulators |
Ariel N'barr
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Posted - 2003.10.20 14:22:00 -
[45]
Rather than limiting the station gui to show only agents at that station simply change it to sort those to the top. All your agents would still be listed but the ones in your current location would be much easier to find.
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2003.10.20 14:54:00 -
[46]
Quote:
- The old blueprint missions have changed so that they give a random blueprint copy (i.e. limited uses) and are no longer only "once per character". The agents are generally not very happy with the current system where people simply use them to get a bp then turn their back on them.
Once per character?? So it's no use for me to do missions for my other lvl 3 agent, hoping to receive another BP?
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Elad Baan
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Posted - 2003.10.20 15:28:00 -
[47]
Is there going to be actual "storylines" to the missions ? Sequential missions could create a little story of their own, but are there going to be any stuff actually happening during a mission ? (right now you start the mission, achieve ONE goal, and that's it, the mission's finished).
Cool ideas for the game - New mission types - Group missions - Planets and the market |
Ian Wagner
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Posted - 2003.10.20 16:58:00 -
[48]
Quote:
Edited by: Zrakor on 20/10/2003 00:21:03
- Level 4-5 missions. They will be geared towards corporations more than individuals, and will have much better rewards.
I also would prefer that level 4-5 missions be oriented more towards the individual than corp. Agent missions, as has already been noted, are one of the few area's in EVE where a freelancer can compete effectively with a corper. While corped myself, I do not wish to see that taken away from them.
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Pirindolo
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Posted - 2003.10.20 17:10:00 -
[49]
Quote:
Quote:
Edited by: Zrakor on 20/10/2003 00:21:03
- Level 4-5 missions. They will be geared towards corporations more than individuals, and will have much better rewards.
I also would prefer that level 4-5 missions be oriented more towards the individual than corp. Agent missions, as has already been noted, are one of the few area's in EVE where a freelancer can compete effectively with a corper. While corped myself, I do not wish to see that taken away from them.
Totally agreed
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Ian Wagner
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Posted - 2003.10.20 17:24:00 -
[50]
Quote:
Edited by: Zrakor on 20/10/2003 00:21:03
- Research agents, which will hand out tech level II blueprints through an agent service. They will probably be level 4-5 agents.
Another agent function I would like to see would be "Surplus Agent", that allows you to purchase a faction appropriate item/ship for mineral cost or below on an appropriate timer.
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Jerrod Syn
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Posted - 2003.10.20 18:11:00 -
[51]
Quote:
Rather than limiting the station gui to show only agents at that station simply change it to sort those to the top. All your agents would still be listed but the ones in your current location would be much easier to find.
Or a subtab like the one in Assets where you can see global and local assets. Have one for Global and Local agents.
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Headd
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Posted - 2003.10.20 18:22:00 -
[52]
I think these are all good changes, I'd just be very careful with:
"- Standings will slowly decay. The various factions in the game do not like you forever if you forget about them. "
Some observations:
1. This better not be a linear decay. in other words, this should be an accelerating decay. If you don't do something for a corp in a day you might lose (for example, just throwing numbers out there) 0.001 the next day you lose an additional 0.002 etc (capped at some point). So if I wait a really long time, it it'll start snowballing. I just dont want to lose 0.1 every day and will have to keep babysitting crappy level 1 and 2 agents. There's smart people in these forums, post how fast the decay will be and you'll probably get good feedback.
2. I really hope this is an overall very slow decay.
3. Since concord faction = security, will security decay as well? If so, see 2.
4. Negative rating players will be able to get their security fixed through agents up to 0.0 and get a concord agent immediately. If the concord agent accepts bribes, there's a good possibility of exploit there. Either unlink concord standing and security or make it so that bribing an agent has a chance of backfiring (losing security for trying to bribe concord doesn't sound unrealistic).
5. Location services for level 3 agents! I have an agent that does this, but he never has anything. I think it's an awesome service for the low level agent.
I have complete confidence in you guys (and appreciate the fact that you're communicating with us on this), just keep in mind some of the possible repercussions when implementing the new system and try to address them.
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Delinia Salrso
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Posted - 2003.10.20 18:39:00 -
[53]
I understand the concerns people have about lvl 4-5 agents being corp based, and I agree that people should be able to climb the corporate ladder by themselves. However, I really like the idea of having missions that require a group's effort to achieve. I don't want to lose out on the chance to coordinate and strategize with gang mates in order to complete a mission. I know Zrakor said "geared for corporations", but perhaps just a gang could do this.
It makes sense to me that there would be higher level agents that gear towards subcontracting out to an individual a set of goals and it's up to that individual to accomplish them by parceling them out to his team in order to complete the project on time. Sort of like what a builder does with his sub-contractors and the sub-contractors do with their employees.
With no specifics on how this would work it's hard to say though. Do you form a gang and everyone in the gang gets a piece of the pie? Does one person in a corp get access to the mission and then everyone in that corp helps achieve the objectives and the spoils go to the corporate wallet and/or the corporate hangar at the station where the agent presides?
On another note, I think it's also incorrect to say, "We don't want lvl4 and lvl5 missions to be corp related because that's not fair to individuals." How is that fair to corps, or people that want more large scale planning operations in the game? Why does everything have to be fair? I'm in a small corp and we probably couldn't pull off a mission that requires more than 2-3 people to complete, but that doesn't mean I think there shouldn't be something that'd require 10 people to complete. And if we could, we'd try to contract out for the extra help.
I'm for the most part a loner player, but it's ludicrous to me that players that don't want to join a corporation feel they should be able to compete on the scale that a large corporation can, or even have access to everything that a large corporation has access to. In life some things require team work to accomplish, end of story. Try building a hydroelectric dam by yourself, cure cancer all by yourself, rebuild an occupied country by yourself...
I think the answer to this is single player missions and group missions should be separate entities or at least distinguishable from each other if possible so they can be skipped.
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loladoll
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Posted - 2003.10.20 18:40:00 -
[54]
like the changes except -like mentioned by other people- the gearing towards corp based missions for lvl 4 and 5 agents
Im a freelancer, and i like that. i have to work for a big corporation in RL already.
i want escapism, not realism in this regard
______________________________________
live is tough and then you get a clone |
Zrakor
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Posted - 2003.10.20 21:28:00 -
[55]
The level 4 agents (and possibly 5 as well) will still give out "freelancer" missions, alongside their more group / corp oriented missions. But expect them to require a powerful ship with expensive equipment to complete, or a friend or two.
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Delinia Salrso
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Posted - 2003.10.20 22:26:00 -
[56]
Thanks for the response Zrakor, I think this is a happy medium that hopefully will make everybody at least a little happy.
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Cabaeran
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Posted - 2003.10.20 22:32:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Cabaeran on 20/10/2003 22:33:49
(wanders into wishlist territory)
Perhaps agent AI will have chance of telling the difference between players from other corporations doing missions, and players that are actually members of the agents corps. I get really annoyed at times at all my Caldari Navy agents referring to me as freelancer.
Also.. perhaps.. Some special missions for those that actually are members of the agents NPC corps, and remain for more than just a mission or hundred? 
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Nirces Y'Tuk
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Posted - 2003.10.20 23:39:00 -
[58]
This is a MMOPRG game, its not a single player game, tasks and objecttives that force people to work togeather and interact is a good thing not a bad.
I agree with a previous poster, igher level missions should be given out like level the lower ones, but just have very large tasks, that is virtually impossible for a player to complete alone, but let the player decide how to sub contact (weather to friends, strangers, corp etc)
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Ansuul
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Posted - 2003.10.21 03:28:00 -
[59]
About the UI, the only agents that need to be in the station UI are agents located at that station (which is what this post says will be there), but also agents that you have active missions with. If you have both these features, the station agent UI will be lean and to the point.
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Fritz Ionar
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Posted - 2003.10.21 10:18:00 -
[60]
Quote:
Perhaps agent AI will have chance of telling the difference between players from other corporations doing missions, and players that are actually members of the agents corps.
No AI needed, just add two options for the agents, the standard "I need some thing to do" and the corp dito "Me and my mates are bored and need something to do". That way you can allways chose wether you want a "singleplayer" mission or a corp mission. |
Ariisha
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Posted - 2003.10.21 10:42:00 -
[61]
Well, I think corp geared missions are a good idea. Actually a few missions are already "corpish".
I'm a producer, thus have problems when it comes to kill missions. So what do i do? I open the chat, and ask my friends to blow this bugger out of the sky. Of course, I'll find a way to thank my friends for this service.
Voila, I resolved a "corpish" mission.
The way to solve "corp geared missions" is cooperation. And this way is open to freelancers as well as corp members.
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Viconia DeVir
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Posted - 2003.10.21 12:12:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Viconia DeVir on 21/10/2003 12:43:20
Edited by: Viconia DeVir on 21/10/2003 12:34:42
Quote:
This is a MMOPRG game, its not a single player game, tasks and objecttives that force people to work togeather and interact is a good thing not a bad.
Forced grouping is not the best of ideas, many people solo tasks in MMOPRG games, but enjoy the chat features etc.
Asheron Call 2 was a mainly solo character game with group options, then they desided to force grouping on the player base, thus the game population then collapsed.
No one will leave over the mission issues but I mean if mass forced grouping is introduced like in AC2
Changes and new content are good for a game but you should never have solo options removed from the existing game.
One way around lvl 4/5 missions would be for you to choose if you want to do a solo or group mission when you talk to the agent.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.21 13:01:00 -
[63]
Edited by: j0sephine on 21/10/2003 13:01:51
"Forced grouping is not the best of ideas, many people solo tasks in MMOPRG games, but enjoy the chat features etc."
... The point is moot, i think:
"The level 4 agents (and possibly 5 as well) will still give out "freelancer" missions, alongside their more group / corp oriented missions. But expect them to require a powerful ship with expensive equipment to complete, or a friend or two."
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Drusilla
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Posted - 2003.10.21 13:17:00 -
[64]
And what about level 5 agents? making agent missions require corp/group participation has one REALLY, REALLY major flaw:
Since missions are typically time consuming and tedious, expecting ONE player to spend enormous amoutns of time doing repetitive, time-eating missions is bad. Expecting GROUPS of people to do it is just plain silly. Why?
Because the rewards are low. There are agent mission players who focus on them with all their might that ONLY started making decent cash off them with the addition of implants and the high value BP drop. And you know what? In terms of ecomonic profit, they've been dumb to do so. Why?
Because with an equivalent amount of time invested, instead of doing many L1 agent missions to get an L2 agent, then many-many L2 missions to get and L3 agent, then many-many-many missions to get implants, they could have made ENORMOUSLY larger amounts of money doing nothing more than mine plagioclase or scordite in a 0.9 zone. The reason the agent mission guys can sell implants fo rmillions each is because players doing other things besides agent missions have made enough cash to pay that much. And while the agent mission player is flying around in a frigate or cruiser, the guys showing up to buy the implants are showing up in battleships.
Short version - if agent missions at L4 and above will be designed with the idea that groups will be needed to complete them, or single players with battleships and high priced gear will be needed to complete them, almost noboy will ever do the missions unless the reward is large enough to merit giving up whatever other profitable activities they could have been doing isntead.
Economics students will recognize this as the theory of opportunity cost. If your normal job lets you earn $1,000 in an hour, why give that up to go do another job that pays $10 per hour? If you have 5 guys each earning $1,000 an hour, why would they all give that up so that one mission can pay the group $10 to split between them?
For group-required missions, or missions so tough they require a battleship, the reward must be high enough to make trading other lucrative activities for agent missions.
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Viconia DeVir
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Posted - 2003.10.21 13:18:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Viconia DeVir on 21/10/2003 13:21:24
Quote:
Edited by: j0sephine on 21/10/2003 13:01:51
"Forced grouping is not the best of ideas, many people solo tasks in MMOPRG games, but enjoy the chat features etc."
... The point is moot, i think:
"The level 4 agents (and possibly 5 as well) will still give out "freelancer" missions, alongside their more group / corp oriented missions. But expect them to require a powerful ship with expensive equipment to complete, or a friend or two."
I know that Zrakor has replyed about the lvl 4/5 missions, but I was replying to Nires post about forced grouping tasks.
I watched my AC2 server population go from 800+ each night to about 250 people playing in about 3 months, because they thought forced grouping was a good idea.
I just pointing out to Nirces that there is a large solo population that also has to be allowed for.
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Delinia Salrso
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Posted - 2003.10.21 13:51:00 -
[66]
Viconia, I agree with you that there's a large solo community in the game, I just don't think that this would be the issue that drives them away. Like you've pointed out, the lvl4s and 5s are still going to hand out missions for individuals. If something drives solo players away I'd say it'd be growing frustration at the tons of remedial work they have to do to compete, however that may be a naive comment on my part since I'm not a full time solo player. I started out intending to be a solo character, but after ganging with the same people night after night and working towards the same goals, starting a corp just made sense logistically and I liked the people.
Personally, I'd like to see agents that specialize in dealing with groups and agents that specialize in nurturing the individuals. The reason is that having one agent giving both seems aggrivatingly inefficient. If there's going to be a time limit between missions, will it reset if the mission is refused? Will I have to do the individual missions myself and hope that by the next time I have a group mission offered I'll be able to coordinate the resources? Will my entire corp have to be on standby waiting for me to get the luck of the draw? I think Fritz had a good solution to this, which is tell the agent what kind of mission you're looking for. Maybe Zrakor can give us some more info on this.
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tameron
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Posted - 2003.10.21 14:56:00 -
[67]
There is one small point i forgot to mention ... replacing BP's with more frequent copies istnt gonna help ppl who want to use em for profit , the ppl who already have originals can refine theirs so anyone wishing to make a prifit for miner 2's will find that they are being outpriced by the ppl with the originals.
If you are gonna make ppl accept that you change the rules just as quick as implimenting em you are gonna have to adress keeping the balance cos ppl are working hard to get these rewards only to find that you have done 290 plus missions and 1 more day may may pay off then you patch and screw the ppl who make the effort.
It realy is disheartening that you impliment things to encourage ppl to work in different areas without seeing the possible outcome , then alter the goalposts constantly because of your short-sitedness ,you should realy plan your action and consiquences with a bit more thought.
and on the topic of lvl 4/5 agents why cant you have to mission buttons one for goup (including gangs within this option) and one for individual , this way you get what you want to achieve without cutting out the players who want to make there own goals in eve without corperation help
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Ian Wagner
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Posted - 2003.10.21 17:53:00 -
[68]
Zrakor, any word on agent skills, such as Negotiation, etc?
At least 1 new skill has been created since EVE went live, Anchoring, while all the skills players need/want to get more rewards out of missions, that have been in the game since beta, still arn't working.
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Syracuse
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Posted - 2003.10.21 19:15:00 -
[69]
Quote:
- Standings will slowly decay. The various factions in the game do not like you forever if you forget about them. What this means basically is that you will need to do things for your faction every now and then to keep your standing up. By far the best way to raise standing is through agent missions.
This is fine as long as it isn't too severe AND if the bad ones decay at the same rate the good ones do. I'd expect the pirates to forget me at least as quickly as the corp I did work for...
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Mr nStuff
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Posted - 2003.10.21 19:50:00 -
[70]
This has probably been mentioned 20 times in this thread already, but just incase..
Lets say, if your faction standing would drop by .01 per day. And killing pirates all day, you STILL might not get a .01 increase per day. So your efforts would be futile, wouldn't they?
So for people trying to get the faction standing up to +2.00 to get agents to Accept at Dock.. Thoughs people will probably never get the standing up to +2.00 because it drops faster than it goes up. If I read correctly, this paragraph may be nullified if lvl1 agents will accept you on a 0.0 standing.
Then there are the players that can only play EVE on the weekends. They wont be able to do agent missions period. Because every time they logon on Saturday, they will have to get their corp standings back up in order to work for their agents again.
Correct me if i'm wrong..
BTW: I have lvl3 agents for each and every main race.. Minmater, Amarr, Gallente, and Calderi.. I'm very proud of my accomplishments. 
But I guess it was all in vain.. Because once you implement all these new nerf features, they will all soon forget about my triumphs.
I will have an implant for each race (Willpower, Charisma, Intel, and Memory) all before next patch. The sad thing is, with these stupid standing decreases. Next time I die and need more implants. I will have to start with the lvl1 agents and work my way back up to lvl3 all over again.
I personally don't like the idea at all.. But oh well..
So what about Security Status? Is that going to drop daily as well? It shouldn't.
I think the standing system is fine the way it is. It's basically stored on a computer, so people would not forget you like your stating they would. It's written in stone as far as i'm concerned. You should not be gradually forgotten. And as far as a negative rating. That is also written in stone, but a gradual increase back to 0.0 is justified in this regard. Kind of like a probational period.
Dunno.. whatever.. I think you guys think alittle too much, and us paying players suffer for it.
NOTE: These are just examples, and may not reflect my true way of thinking or the intentions of my corporation.
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.21 20:16:00 -
[71]
I keep seeing people say "Forced grouping = bad!" and I get really confused.
Just who forces you to accept the mission?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Delinia Salrso
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Posted - 2003.10.21 20:25:00 -
[72]
Quote:
Lets say, if your faction standing would drop by .01 per day. And killing pirates all day, you STILL might not get a .01 increase per day. So your efforts would be futile, wouldn't they?
...
If I read correctly, this paragraph may be nullified if lvl1 agents will accept you on a 0.0 standing.
I think you're right about it being nullified. My understanding is as long as you're not negative faction with a corporation you can get any level 1 agent you want "of a certain quality" from that corp.
Quote:
Then there are the players that can only play EVE on the weekends. They wont be able to do agent missions period. Because every time they logon on Saturday, they will have to get their corp standings back up in order to work for their agents again.
Zrakor posted the folling bit in this thread:
Doing agent missions isn't the only way to gain faction, albeit the best way. You can also just kill npcs to raise your faction. It will not take alot of effort to keep your faction standing as it is, the decay rate isnt that fast. And if you go on vacation and do not login for a long time, the decay will stop until you log back in.
I think that also addresses your concerns with your level 3 agents, you might have to kill an NPC they hate every once in awhile or do the occasional mission.
Quote:
I will have an implant for each race (Willpower, Charisma, Intel, and Memory) all before next patch. The sad thing is, with these stupid standing decreases. Next time I die and need more implants. I will have to start with the lvl1 agents and work my way back up to lvl3 all over again.
I personally don't like the idea at all.. But oh well..
I don't think it'll be as bad as you think, at least it sounds like they're trying to keep it from being that bad. Zrakor has said repeatedly you won't lose your existing agents.
Quote:
Dunno.. whatever.. I think you guys think alittle too much, and us paying players suffer for it.
I don't feel like I'm suffering
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Viconia DeVir
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Posted - 2003.10.21 21:52:00 -
[73]
Quote:
I keep seeing people say "Forced grouping = bad!" and I get really confused.
Just who forces you to accept the mission?
Forced grouping is when a game only allows a person to progress up a certain career line by saying you have to do it in groups. Thus killing that career for the solo players. Or nerfing the solo player so much that playing in groups is the only viable choice.
The bad statement is used:-
1) Players like to feel that they have made the achivement or reached the goal by themselves, if helped to much then this is not good.
2) If to many career choices are cut then the solo players normally leave for a more solo friendly mmorpg game.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.21 23:50:00 -
[74]
Quote:
Quote:
I keep seeing people say "Forced grouping = bad!" and I get really confused.
Just who forces you to accept the mission?
Forced grouping is when a game only allows a person to progress up a certain career line by saying you have to do it in groups. Thus killing that career for the solo players. Or nerfing the solo player so much that playing in groups is the only viable choice.
The bad statement is used:-
1) Players like to feel that they have made the achivement or reached the goal by themselves, if helped to much then this is not good.
2) If to many career choices are cut then the solo players normally leave for a more solo friendly mmorpg game.
But you still don't answer the question:
Just who forces you to accept the mission?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Flaloch
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Posted - 2003.10.22 06:07:00 -
[75]
"Just who forces you to accept the mission?"
Jash, that thinking is kind of ignorant.
You know as well as we do that all the "good" missions WILL require grouping.
It's crappy for me because the location that i do my missions is far from my headquarters :(
"The people expected it of me and I had got to do it; I could feel their two thousand wills pressing me forward, irresistibly. "
- Orwell |
Hizac Neutin
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Posted - 2003.10.22 09:53:00 -
[76]
Quote:
So for people trying to get the faction standing up to +2.00 to get agents to Accept at Dock..
I have been testing the new agent missions on Chaos.
Every corp has a list of agents "Available to You" and "Not Available to You". Even with the wiped standings on Chaos, there are still 'crappy' agents who would give you work.
What the new system will do is that it will force you to take sides. It will also mean that the better agents will refuse to give you work if you haven't worked for them for some time.
Agents now respond to different standings, some require a standing of 0.35 others even higher, for example, others require no standing.
Oh, and as for the mission appearing on the journal as soon as you talk to the agent, that's gone, you have to ask for a mission before it appears in the journal.
In my opinion the changes are all good.
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Hekate Persephone
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Posted - 2003.10.22 12:26:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Hekate Persephone on 22/10/2003 12:36:09
Edited by: Hekate Persephone on 22/10/2003 12:31:04
WOW - great to hear, that mission-system will be changed and that it works at the chaos server but I¦m sharing opinion with Archemedes an the first page and others, be careful with LVL 4-5 missions that only can be fulfilled by a group of pilots - would be sad, if last thing one can do alone will be closed.
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McWatt
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Posted - 2003.10.22 16:41:00 -
[78]
Edited by: McWatt on 22/10/2003 16:42:20
lol. i see concord and mining for a BB-bp being the only "missions" that require grouping so far.
so don t fear those three cruisers too much, though you might not be able to do all missions in a kestrel any longer.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.22 20:27:00 -
[79]
Quote:
"Just who forces you to accept the mission?"
Jash, that thinking is kind of ignorant.
You know as well as we do that all the "good" missions WILL require grouping.
It's crappy for me because the location that i do my missions is far from my headquarters :(
The only person that forces you to do anything in this game is you.
You have a choice: Your greed for wanting the mission reward and finding a buddy. Or not taking the mission.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.10.22 22:02:00 -
[80]
There should no doubt be missions requiring a group effort, the solo player can just opt not to do it, as he opted not to group. There's no killing soloing in having groupspecific missions.
Convert Stations
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Crysania
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Posted - 2003.10.22 22:18:00 -
[81]
There was a comment about changing the payouts of the mining missions to the same as what the basic prices of the ore were.
I like these missions. They only came up maybe 10% of the time. Agents are paying me 50k for a mission, not for the ore I mine, but for the job they are too lazy to do on their own. Generally they provide me with items to transport and pay me money to do it. If they are only going to pay me for the ore, then the missions are no longer worth my time to do. I can mine ore on my own and sell it to the market. Agents are supposed to simulate working for a large corporation. They are paying me for my time!
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Kish
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Posted - 2003.10.23 07:09:00 -
[82]
@Zrakor,
Ok , the proposed changes all seem good and nice its gonna be easier to get a working network of agents in a given location...
But, i failed to see any notice about Jove/concord agents.
Will they(especially Jove, as im mainly working for the 4 Jove corps)give special rewards like BP's ,implants...
|
Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2003.10.23 08:40:00 -
[83]
Im still waiting for the change where we dont have to dock at stations to accept missions :/
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
Zrakor
|
Posted - 2003.10.23 13:45:00 -
[84]
Quote:
@Zrakor,
Ok , the proposed changes all seem good and nice its gonna be easier to get a working network of agents in a given location...
But, i failed to see any notice about Jove/concord agents.
Will they(especially Jove, as im mainly working for the 4 Jove corps)give special rewards like BP's ,implants...
The jovian agents are not accessible in the new system. They will be accessible eventually though, once they feel the time is right to open their services to the other races again.
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Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2003.10.23 13:48:00 -
[85]
errr...so he will lose all his Jove agents? Or nobody else can get one? Or he keeps them, but they dont do anything?
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
Darkwolf
|
Posted - 2003.10.23 14:03:00 -
[86]
Quote:
The jovian agents are not accessible in the new system. They will be accessible eventually though, once they feel the time is right to open their services to the other races again.
Well, I'm none to happy about that, considering I have a level 2 (soon to be 3) Jovian agent, but anyway...
What's to become of CONCORD and DED agents? Having a few level 3's of them, one with quite a large number of missions clocked, I'll be quite angry if I lose them. Are CONCORD agents staying?
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Kish
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Posted - 2003.10.23 14:57:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Kish on 23/10/2003 14:58:56
Edited by: Kish on 23/10/2003 14:58:38
@Zrakor
err, so i loose my Jove agents ????
Could i get a clear answer on that one plz ...
Cause 300+ missions for Jove faction corps was a lot of time investment and i already got raped once with them not giving any implants ...
So plz. dont tell me they will be forgotten in the next patch .. |
Falnaerith
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Posted - 2003.10.23 15:18:00 -
[88]
From what I read from Zrakor's post, I think that the jove agents will do the standard busy work missions that are common to all. You probably won't get any new ones atm, but those lucky enough to have them will be able to keep their faction rating up with them.
Thus allowing a head start later when Jove agents are re-enabled because the storyline fits with it.
I don't believe that your work would go to waste, but you might need to do plenty of missions with little reward if you want a chance later for something good right away.
"Take a chance on me." Invest in them and see what happens.
@ everybody who's complaining about being forced into multiplay in an mmorpg:
1. You don't need to accept.
2. You forget that these are level 4-5 agents, and SHOULD be very tough.
3. What's the point of getting VERY good loot if you can get it by simply using a single BS.
(I.e. WAY too easy to complete)
4. Notice he said "Friends" as well, meaning that you would probably trust corp members to help, but friends work just as well.
5. I don't believe Zrakor said anything having to do with 4-5 agents is set in stone. Part of the reason they aren't out in next patch i'm guessing. (Only part of course)
@ Zrakor
1. Will the loot tables be global, or match that area's pirates? Ie serp, gurst and the others? Or will they have a seperate loot table for agent missions? Or even different.
2. Is there a possible future in npc pirate agents?
3. I'm curious about the chaos testing of agents, how it works and whatnot. Wondering if it's very time consuming like tq. In the way of getting from level 1 to level 3-4 agents. If there's way to sign up for specific testing and get a boost to check out missions? Perhaps getting a list of "Test" missions and going through them one by one?
4. Side note to 3, will there be a 15 min cap on missions in chaos?
Thx for your time.
-------------------
Basic truths?
Idiots make us rich.
-
Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill them. |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.23 16:17:00 -
[89]
"The jovian agents are not accessible in the new system. They will be accessible eventually though, once they feel the time is right to open their services to the other races again."
... I can still access the agents of the Jove faction on Chaos server, and i thought the new system has already been implemented there?..
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Zrakor
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Posted - 2003.10.23 18:02:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Zrakor on 23/10/2003 18:03:58
Quote:
Edited by: Kish on 23/10/2003 14:58:56
Edited by: Kish on 23/10/2003 14:58:38
@Zrakor
err, so i loose my Jove agents ????
Could i get a clear answer on that one plz ...
Cause 300+ missions for Jove faction corps was a lot of time investment and i already got raped once with them not giving any implants ...
So plz. dont tell me they will be forgotten in the next patch ..
They will all be disabled in the next patch I'm afraid, ETA on them being available again is unknown at this time. However I will look into making those who have Jove faction currently gain faction somewhere else instead so the work isnt completely lost. Concord agents will also be disabled for the time being, until their security status "exploitability" is dealt with.
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Zrakor
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Posted - 2003.10.23 18:19:00 -
[91]
1. Will the loot tables be global, or match that area's pirates? Ie serp, gurst and the others? Or will they have a seperate loot table for agent missions? Or even different.
The loot tables usually match the faction. Some factions (i.e. the lesser factions mostly) will have more randomness in their loot tables. Also not all missions will use loot tables, just some, and others will have specific loot without any randomness involved, such as the implant missions etc.
2. Is there a possible future in npc pirate agents?
Yes there is. They have a few pirate specific missions now. Their biggest pluses though aren't yet in the game, such as boosters etc. That's waiting on a few code tweaks and bug fixes.
3. I'm curious about the chaos testing of agents, how it works and whatnot. Wondering if it's very time consuming like tq. In the way of getting from level 1 to level 3-4 agents. If there's way to sign up for specific testing and get a boost to check out missions? Perhaps getting a list of "Test" missions and going through them one by one?
Unforunately only select members of our bughunter team have GM powers to test the missions on Chaos. Other players will only be able to test them as they do on Tranq. However a standing conversion from Tranq will be done, so you should be able to test your level 3 agents on Chaos soon. No ETA though.
4. Side note to 3, will there be a 15 min cap on missions in chaos?
Yes, but switching between agents is much easier, and the 15 minute timer only affects the agent you are doing the mission for.
Thx for your time.
Np.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.23 18:20:00 -
[92]
While on the subject, does the new faction system use the information from the new "Liked By" and "Disliked By" tabs to determine how one's activity affects their factions and standings?
I.e. i can see the Mordu's Legion has 9.0 standing towards the Caldari state.. does it mean if i perform mission for Caldari state corporation and improve my standing with the State, my standing towards the Mordu's Legion will improve by nearly the same amount?
Also, factions and corporations display now their standing towards PC corporations and individual players... suppose i go and shoot some player who is disliked by Caldari state... will it improve my standings towards the State? And in similar way, will shooting someone liked by the State affect my Caldari faction negatively?..
Sorry for all the questions, it's just the system doesn't appear to fully work at the moment (doing missions doesn't affect any secondary factions etc...)
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Ian Wagner
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Posted - 2003.10.23 18:45:00 -
[93]
Quote:
1. Will the loot tables be global, or match that area's pirates? Ie serp, gurst and the others? Or will they have a seperate loot table for agent missions? Or even different.
The loot tables usually match the faction. Some factions (i.e. the lesser factions mostly) will have more randomness in their loot tables. Also not all missions will use loot tables, just some, and others will have specific loot without any randomness involved, such as the implant missions etc.
Does this mean each race will still only receive 1 type of implant? With trading/agent skills still not implemented, the charisma implant given out by Amarran faction agents isn't worth much/anything, while other implants are selling for millions.
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Zrakor
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Posted - 2003.10.23 18:58:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Zrakor on 23/10/2003 19:29:51
Quote:
Does this mean each race will still only receive 1 type of implant? With trading/agent skills still not implemented, the charisma implant given out by Amarran faction agents isn't worth much/anything, while other implants are selling for millions.
No, the implant missions will be corp type specific. What I meant there was that the missions themselves don't have any randomness involved with the loot, i.e. they give the same implant per corp type. The pirate factions though will still find it very hard to obtain implants through missions, although they might get an implant trade mission from time to time asking for some very hard-to-get item.
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Kish
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Posted - 2003.10.23 19:52:00 -
[95]
Quote:
Edited by: Zrakor on 23/10/2003 18:03:58
Quote:
Edited by: Kish on 23/10/2003 14:58:56
Edited by: Kish on 23/10/2003 14:58:38
@Zrakor
err, so i loose my Jove agents ????
Could i get a clear answer on that one plz ...
Cause 300+ missions for Jove faction corps was a lot of time investment and i already got raped once with them not giving any implants ...
So plz. dont tell me they will be forgotten in the next patch ..
They will all be disabled in the next patch I'm afraid, ETA on them being available again is unknown at this time. However I will look into making those who have Jove faction currently gain faction somewhere else instead so the work isnt completely lost. Concord agents will also be disabled for the time being, until their security status "exploitability" is dealt with.
Wow, u guys just ruined weeks of gameplay in one sweep. Wasn't it enough to nerf Jove into not giving implants....
And i will gain faction somewhere else, way cool.... Thanks for choosing my faction and my gameplay for me CCp.Thanks a lot.
All the time i spent not receiving implants and not going for implants has finally been rewarded with a random faction raise ?????
----------------------------------------------
One very unhappy customer.
-------------------------
" Do me a favor and die " |
Falnaerith
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Posted - 2003.10.23 20:13:00 -
[96]
1. If you keep your current jove standing, but are just unable to do any more missions, it's not really a loss, since you didn't get anything from them anyways.
2. If your standing for say, Caldari is boosted and you can start out with a high lvl2 maybe even a low level 3, that will put you in good stead to actually get implants you lament for.
(Considering there was no chance of jove, which was common knowledge) You took a chance, but it didn't pan out how you wanted. Least they are being kind and giving you a nice start in a different faction so you are able to get nice things in.
Think of it this way, all they disable is getting new jove agents. So you may get a lvl 3 before the patch. Even so, Jove gives nothing great right now. W/ that, you'd continue doing jove missions because it was still possible. (Like you have so far)
Now, since you are doing those, you STILL aren't getting anything great from jove, BUT you also don't get a standing increase with others.
Solution, they give you extra standing within another faction and you are able to start at a higher level, AND while you do missions for them, GET some great equipment like you couldn't with jove.
I'd be ****ed as hell if this happened, but you did it to yourself. As i said before, you took a chance and it didn't pan out. Live with it, deal with it, but be glad they aren't callous and say you were warned, you continued anyway.
-------------------
Basic truths?
Idiots make us rich.
-
Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill them. |
Luther Pendragon
|
Posted - 2003.10.23 20:16:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Luther Pendragon on 23/10/2003 20:18:45
Quote:
All the time i spent not receiving implants and not going for implants has finally been rewarded with a random faction raise ?????
Admitedly it was a calculated risk you took knowing the dysfunctionality of agents right? We all did agent missions for absolutely nothing, suddenly implants fell out of the sky! But it was risk taking, Jove agents would seem to have been very rewarding indeed, but also risky. So while I feel for you, I dont feel too much. They may give you Jove agent guys some other rare faction that no one else has. Who knows...
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
Kalki Nibiru
|
Posted - 2003.10.23 20:18:00 -
[98]
@ Zrakor
I was wondering what you could tell us about boosters. A lot of people are under the impression that pirate corporations will give these out as rewards.
Personally, I hope thats not the case as I was hoping for a possibility of illegal drug trading. IE. You find a pirate agent of x level who will sell you x ammount of drugs per day or week. You could then smuggle those drugs into empire space put them on the black market and sell them at an inflated price. Lets say a police vessel finds someone trying to smuggle the goods, depending on how much and the security level of the system the goods are taken away or maybe the ship is destroyed, when either of the above happens an eve-mail is sent to the CEO and directors of that corporation warning them that their corporation will continue to lose standing if they persist in illegal activities: Booster Smuggling.
Or my other hope for boosters would be this:
Agents will sell or give out a basic "Booster Blue Print" and that blue print is basically a guide on how to make the most basic boosters, however if a person was to buy certain "chemistry skills" they would be able to add different effects to the boosters as they trained their skill level up.
I would prefer the second way over the first because it adds crafting to the game. Everyone who gets the first BP would be able to create the most basic boosters, but those who aquire the skills could add some more effects, and depending on the trade goods and other items you use to try to make a new booster and add the effect, the booster will either fail, be marginally successful, successful, very successful or maybe even deadly. Of course there is a lot of variables you could work with such as when someone becomes addicted, or whats the withdrawl penalties and how many till you overdose and die, which security zones could manufacture these, how much more it costs to make drugs there, is there a chance you will get caught, etc. I think you guys could make a great crafting system with boosters.
Anyway, those were just some ideas in case you havent decided on how you want boosters to work out .
Any information on boosters you might have for us would be great.
Thanks.
Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate
.
<Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market?
<Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with |
Kish
|
Posted - 2003.10.23 20:51:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Kish on 23/10/2003 20:56:23
Quote:
1. If you keep your current jove standing, but are just unable to do any more missions, it's not really a loss, since you didn't get anything from them anyways.
2. If your standing for say, Caldari is boosted and you can start out with a high lvl2 maybe even a low level 3, that will put you in good stead to actually get implants you lament for.
(Considering there was no chance of jove, which was common knowledge) You took a chance, but it didn't pan out how you wanted. Least they are being kind and giving you a nice start in a different faction so you are able to get nice things in.
.
Actually Jove agents gave out implants(as i have gotten 9 out of my agent) until the patch.
Actually i have 2 level 3 Jove agents...
So, ur arguments aren't valid imho... Nobody said Jove faction would be nerfed/removed and there was no need to. CCp should have officially stated: Sorry guys no Jove content, no Jove agents available instead of letting us move to a certain point then completly drop us...
Bad move imho;but life goes on
But will ccp move my 400odd missions for Jove to another faction ;and replace all my Jove agents(2 different corps) with agents from another corp ??
Prolly not but i'd really like to have a chat with on of those Polaris guys ingame to clarify this
---------------------------------
Solution, they give you extra standing within another faction and you are able to start at a higher level, AND while you do missions for them, GET some great equipment like you couldn't with jove
---------------------------------------------
Yeah great, i'm forced to take the path CCP choses for me....... and what if all my normal factions are capped at their max ; will i get a free lollipop and a handkerchief |
mOULf
|
Posted - 2003.10.24 00:39:00 -
[100]
Quote:
- No more "give me 10 tritanium for 50000 ISK missions (which didn't make any sense). Agents will ask for much more minerals or ore, and only pay around their npc market value.
I totally disagree with you. If my agent wants mineral right know without dirtying its hands he'll have to pay the price of it. Remember not all sations have the mineral wanted and if you have to mine it, or go and buy it, it's WORTHING IT.
The contrary would be better: make sure the reward is higher than the market price (remember the Super Conductors missions...)
Maybe the thing that embarrass you is when the mineral is already in stock in station? But that's part of the GAMEPLAY! You seem to forget the random aspect of mission and of the game in general, makes it alive.
Make agents more boring or unusefull and we won't use them anymore that's simple.
Maybe the best thing to do would be to set the reward at 2X the average market price for all things?
If my agent propose me an 1/4 hour mission to get mineral for a reward at the market price he'll just go to hell.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.24 01:09:00 -
[101]
"If my agent propose me an 1/4 hour mission to get mineral for a reward at the market price he'll just go to hell."
... Keep in mind they will reward you not just with ISK, but with an advancement up the corporate/faction ladder which has its own value... and is the main point of doing them favours anyway, i think.
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Lucre
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Posted - 2003.10.24 08:53:00 -
[102]
Quote:
Concord agents will also be disabled for the time being, until their security status "exploitability" is dealt with.
Disabling all the agents sounds like rather a drastic measure to cure this? Can't you fix the problem rather than killing the entire agent chain? And what is the exploit? Is it wrong to use them to raise your sec status - I thought that was one of the reasons for working for them?
Concord agents are currently the way to get back into the good graces of factions you've annoyed by doing too many missions for the others (and the police start following you every time you enter Caldari space! Or worse...). How will we be able to do that after the Concord agents have been disabled?
Lucre (bit miffed as she has Concord level 1 and 2 agents and is probably less than a dozen missions from a level 3...) :-(
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Sebastian Cole
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Posted - 2003.10.24 15:20:00 -
[103]
Quote:
Edited by: Zrakor on 23/10/2003 18:03:58
Concord agents will also be disabled for the time being, until their security status "exploitability" is dealt with.
When you refer to Concord are you referring to the corporation or the faction? In other words will the other Concord faction corps be affected (like DED)?
Where am I? |
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2003.10.24 16:22:00 -
[104]
Edited by: j0sephine on 24/10/2003 16:25:10
For those interested, few details on how the standing decay system works at the moment:
* personal, corporate and faction standings fall at rate of 1% per day. It's said the exception is made if the player "haven't logged in recently".
* performing single mission improves faction by ~0.7%, corporate standings by ~1.6% and personal standings by ~2-4% The improvements probably depend on agent level, quality, mission type, personal attributes and whatnot.
* there's a very handy "Show Transactions" command which displays log very similar to the journal, listing how exactly your standings with any given agent/corporation/faction was changing over time, and why.
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Mrissa Easeah
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Posted - 2003.10.24 18:15:00 -
[105]
Since mining's a 'fill the order' sort of mission, why couldn't/shouldn't they pay, say 25% above the NPC value for the minerals, for the convenience of the mining/transportation/time?
I'd think that'd be more than fair, and partly compensate for the fact the 'mission' was a simple mine + refine.
Instead of 55k for 8k tritanium, you'd get 12k ... or have to mine up to the relative value of the mission in tritanium. ie. 75% of 55k tritanium for the mission pay.
This keeps the mission payouts from being ridiculous for the materials given, but still higher than just mining on your own.
The comment of 'around npc' prices bothers me, as it could be construed that the mission may pay -less- than NPC market prices, as well as more.
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Shevar
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Posted - 2003.10.24 22:13:00 -
[106]
What ccp should recon is that mining for npc prices is fine IF you only get that sort of missions... Its kinda hard to do a decent mining op just in the middle of nowhere, no indies available etc. So personally im definatly not going to mine more then 2 or 3 loads in a cruiser/bs to finish one mission...
And that would result in a low pay out if you would give 10% above npc market or something.
--------
-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Hakera
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Posted - 2003.10.25 00:30:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Hakera on 25/10/2003 15:31:18
Folks - just an opinion but been looking at new agent system on chaos for a couple of days now...
The stack count on courier mission items was missing. If you shift-drag and seperate them, you cant stack them again to complete mission. j0sephine had a good idea of instead of getting the items for courier missions, you get a platic wrap which you simplly deliver. Would prevent the stocking of items then and instamissions.
One of the things I noticed was that the default top option on the agents talk to screen is the location service - I think the "Got any work for me" should be top option.
The standing increase from mission success is a bit high I think! In 10 or 11 lvl 1 missions I was able to get missions from a lvl 2 agent. At this rate I will have access to lvl 3 by tomorrow night. Looks to be about a 0.15 increase per mission. I am 1.35 atm, need 3.10 for worst lvl 3 agent. Unless this is countered by the standing decay maybe?
Also as a warning - if any members of your corp have a negative rating towards your faction agents corp - you will be affected. This is probably to keep inline with the group missions later. Eg fight club as a neg rating to gallente so i could not join Quafe for example.
Other than that - a lot better, the in station agents tab is a lot better and the agents who like/dislike sort on npc corp info is great.
Look forward to more
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
DREAMWORKS
|
Posted - 2003.10.25 21:43:00 -
[108]
I have been waiting for 3 patches now to get level 4 agents implemented, not for stupid bp's or other items but for location services.. Something a pirate hunter or someone in bounty hunting profession will need to make his task easier.
What can you tell me about that _last_ aspect: Giving us more abilities to find a target easier, instead of getting a level 3 agent in every region?
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Shevar
|
Posted - 2003.10.26 01:58:00 -
[109]
Currently lvl4 and 5 agents have search whole universe. But they where only available shortly and dont give any missions out..
Last thing i heard about this was that lvl4 should provide region+outlying regions and lvl5 should be universe.
--------
-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
|
dosperado
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Posted - 2003.10.26 07:29:00 -
[110]
/quote They will all be disabled in the next patch I'm afraid, ETA on them being available again is unknown at this time. However I will look into making those who have Jove faction currently gain faction somewhere else instead so the work isnt completely lost. Concord agents will also be disabled for the time being, until their security status "exploitability" is dealt with. /quote
it's a joke, isn't it?
ccp better fix that concord agents exploit in the next patch instead of taking them out of game. same goes for jove.
ohh I see...its easier to disable something in the game instead of fixing it! you will loose a lot of players which have 150+ missions with jove and/or concord lvl3 agents because all their time spent on that missions was for nothing!
think about it ccp!
better spend some more days in bugfixing these things and when its fixed -> release the patch...
otherwise it would be another "how can I make a game worse?" patch
____________________
CEO Denial of Service
NPC Mass Murderer | Security Status 6.4 |
Valorian
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Posted - 2003.10.26 07:35:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Valorian on 26/10/2003 07:39:48
Quote:
For those interested, few details on how the standing decay system works at the moment:
* personal, corporate and faction standings fall at rate of 1% per day. It's said the exception is made if the player "haven't logged in recently".
* performing single mission improves faction by ~0.7%, corporate standings by ~1.6% and personal standings by ~2-4% The improvements probably depend on agent level, quality, mission type, personal attributes and whatnot.
* there's a very handy "Show Transactions" command which displays log very similar to the journal, listing how exactly your standings with any given agent/corporation/faction was changing over time, and why.
Just some questions I have based on this plus a few other posts:
1. Do you mean journal or wallet? As on Tranq the journal doesn't display any retained log.
2. Do you get a Transaction log for each decay transaction?
3. If someone kills 5 npc ships, do the faction adjustments for each kill get logged individually? (Could see some really large database storage growth if EVE doesnt already retain this, unless of course after a certain period old records are consolidated)
4. If someone leaves (or is kicked from a corp) does their negative/positive adjustments to the corps standing go away too?
5. If someone is a member of an NPC corp does player standing effect that corp? Or does that NPC corp eventually "kick" the player? Eg A character is in an NPC corp and goes about pirating NPC ships belonging to the same faction.
6. Do faction standings automatically decay every day or only if you do nothing to effect the faction for that day?
7. Does filling an NPC buy order or making a purchase from an NPC vendor effect faction standings? (After all what is different between getting a mission to provide minerals or outright just selling to the same station minerals, in either case your still providing an enemy or friend)
8. If just selling minerals to an NPC station does not effect faction, then why have mineral missions that only pay NPC prices?
9. (related to 6.) If (during a day) you do something that causes a negative adjustment to a faction, without doing anything positive do you still get a decay adjustment?
10. (reverse of 9.) If during day you do something positive for a faction you have a negative standing with (without doing anything negative), do you still get decay for that day? What if your positive adjusment is less than the natural decay amount?
An NPC Corporation is not the pilot of its ships and structures! |
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2003.10.26 14:48:00 -
[112]
"1. Do you mean journal or wallet? As on Tranq the journal doesn't display any retained log."
I mean a separate log, which looks and works very much like the journal section of the wallet. You can invoke it by opening your character sheet, selecting the standings tab then right-clicking on any faction/corporation/person listed there and choosing "Show Transactions" command.
"2. Do you get a Transaction log for each decay transaction?"
Yes; they are of separate category ("standing decay" or something along those lines) so you can even filter the log quickly to see only those decay transactions.
"3. If someone kills 5 npc ships, do the faction adjustments for each kill get logged individually?"
I don't know, only killed one Serpentis NPC during the tests and it seemingly affected my standing by some very small amount... (people who killed larger amount of NPCs report it seems to have as little effect on standings as it has on your security rating) plus, this standing doesn't "heal" over time. It's possible this part of the system isn't working yet.
"4. If someone leaves (or is kicked from a corp) does their negative/positive adjustments to the corps standing go away too?"
No idea, will have to check. I doubt the corporation can heal their reputation so easily, though...
"5. If someone is a member of an NPC corp does player standing effect that corp? Or does that NPC corp eventually "kick" the player? Eg A character is in an NPC corp and goes about pirating NPC ships belonging to the same faction."
No idea again.
"6. Do faction standings automatically decay every day or only if you do nothing to effect the faction for that day?"
There's automatic decay no matter if you did something for the faction or not.
"7. Does filling an NPC buy order or making a purchase from an NPC vendor effect faction standings? (After all what is different between getting a mission to provide minerals or outright just selling to the same station minerals, in either case your still providing an enemy or friend)"
I'll have to check it. For what's worth, the NPC corporations have now separate tab on their info, listing all products they offer and demand, along with prices and date and place of last transaction.
"8. If just selling minerals to an NPC station does not effect faction, then why have mineral missions that only pay NPC prices?"
I have yet to receive any mission involving the minerals from the agents.... so right now cannot verify the payments for those missions.
"9. (related to 6.) If (during a day) you do something that causes a negative adjustment to a faction, without doing anything positive do you still get a decay adjustment?"
I don't know; problem is, currently doing missions doesn't negatively affect any other factions/standings. Will have to shoot some convoys and see. My guess would be yes, standings decay is completely separate from other events and happens every day as long as you logged in on that day.
"10. (reverse of 9.) If during day you do something positive for a faction you have a negative standing with (without doing anything negative), do you still get decay for that day? What if your positive adjusment is less than the natural decay amount?"
See 9; i'll be able to check when Chaos gets up, and i manage to get some negative faction ;s
|
Phaethon
|
Posted - 2003.10.26 21:00:00 -
[113]
Great to hear about the concord agents :(
I have beenworking for my lvl3 concord corp agent for some time now, and reading several posts stating, that "for now concord faction do not give implants, but this will be changed"
Not the kind of change I had hoped for.
And it's not like u shoot skywards in sec status unless u bribe concord agents.
I think the agents in general fixing your negative status cheap and fast is a bigger problem than concord upping an allready positive standing.
Put in a timer, so agents can't or won't touch a "hot case", for a set number of days. So if u want to clean up your act u need to lay low for some length of time depending on your case and the quality of the agent.
I can see the problem in ppl going from -6 to 0 in a matter of hours. but i can't see anything wrong in someone deciding to work for the system in return for a faster healing of their sec status.
Hell, doing cinderella, fetch me this and scrub my floor missions for a day is a hard punishment in itself
WTB. Infifitrator I drones |
Hakera
|
Posted - 2003.10.27 11:22:00 -
[114]
Agree with you on that, the sec rating fix should not be availible to most agent but the top ones, maybe blackmarket agents only for pirates when they come out and certaintly not concord agents.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Stradivarious Hawke
|
Posted - 2003.10.27 13:43:00 -
[115]
Well, if standings will really decay over time, then I guess I will no longer bother with agents.
Keeping the network of 10 - 15 agents i've established so far it's gonna be time consuming and maybe not even worth it.
Nemo me impune lacessit |
Dragunov
|
Posted - 2003.10.27 13:54:00 -
[116]
Quote:
Quote:
Edited by: Zrakor on 20/10/2003 00:21:03
Another agent function I would like to see would be "Surplus Agent", that allows you to purchase a faction appropriate item/ship for mineral cost or below on an appropriate timer.
That would screw up the economy. Bad idea.
|
moocows
|
Posted - 2003.10.27 13:58:00 -
[117]
Quote:
Expecting GROUPS of people to do it is just plain silly. Why?
Because the rewards are low.
Er..you dont know what the rewards are so pls..think before u post
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Marlena
|
Posted - 2003.10.27 15:11:00 -
[118]
hm, I think I read something about u could change agent if he gave u too many Combat missions etc.., right? So how do u change agent? Will u be able to speak to other agents now? Cus my agent is very far away from my neighborhood :)
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Enderweeks
|
Posted - 2003.10.27 20:19:00 -
[119]
Quote:
They will all be disabled in the next patch I'm afraid, ETA on them being available again is unknown at this time. However I will look into making those who have Jove faction currently gain faction somewhere else instead so the work isnt completely lost. Concord agents will also be disabled for the time being, until their security status "exploitability" is dealt with.
As someone with a high Jovian and Concord Rating would it be possible to have a clearer idea of how the 'work isn't completely lost'
I'd rather not just find out one day that some arbitrary change has been made.
Would you (Zrakor) be open to suggestions on how to compensate those who have done this work?
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Hizac Neutin
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 01:29:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Hizac Neutin on 28/10/2003 01:42:02
Quote:
So how do u change agent?
You dock at a station. If there's an agent there they will show up in the Agents Tab.
If you've got enough faction with them, they will give you a mission.
Some agents will talk to you even if you got 0 faction towards them, so there's always a possibility to get a new agent in a different corp.
But now there are corp standings too, so if your corp regularly blasts convoys from that faction, it's highly unlikely that faction will ever give you a mission
Quote:
Well, if standings will really decay over time, then I guess I will no longer bother with agents.
This is like saying, that since when I don't speak to my RL contacts (business, personal, etc) for a long time they no longer prioritise my requests, I will not bother with making any contacts or friends at all.
Keeping a network of RL contacts is quite time consuming.
Remember that if you don't log on for a while, the decay stops since you're not actually in the 'world'.
It would be good if the decay only happens based on time logged in (with a similar change from negative standing to neutral).
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Kalle Port
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Posted - 2003.10.28 09:06:00 -
[121]
Is the 'logging in' character based or account based?
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Symeonis Porphory
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Posted - 2003.10.28 11:05:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Symeonis Porphory on 28/10/2003 11:05:34
Quote:
- Standings will slowly decay. The various factions in the game do not like you forever if you forget about them. What this means basically is that you will need to do things for your faction every now and then to keep your standing up. By far the best way to raise standing is through agent missions.
Hmmm... This sounds as if it becomes rather hard to maintain your standings unless you want to do only agent missions. Leave alone the possibility of a 'diplomatic' character with a lot of good relations.
Would it be an idea to have the standings slowly decay to say, half of the best it once was (modified for regular standing decreases). This means that if you turn up after a year or so, they still remember you favourably... And that sounds reasonable; if I meet someone again that I've known long ago, I have nver completely forgotten about them.
Quote:
- Level 4-5 missions. They will be geared towards corporations more than individuals, and will have much better rewards.
Great! I was hoping something like this would come. Sofar, agent missions were a bit too much solo thingies.
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Stradivarious Hawke
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Posted - 2003.10.28 15:20:00 -
[123]
Exactly.
I have at least 2.0 with almost all the "good" factions.
What's gonna happen now that concord will be dormant ?
Do I have to get agents within all those factions to keep my good standings ?
What about those factions that have no agents ?
This will take a lot of time
Missions to keep the standing with each agent,corporation, faction .. OUCH !
Nemo me impune lacessit |
Bad Harlequin
|
Posted - 2003.10.28 20:58:00 -
[124]
conflict-of-interest bugs must absolutely be eradicated before this goes in.
I don't wanna know what happens when the next mission i must succeed in to keep faction high for, say, Minmatar Republic Fleet, results in running slaves on the black market. Or some other combination with opposing faction rating changes... my Fleet contacts *still* all offer Slaves for sale as their "black market" items. This has been mentioned quite often before, and Papa Smurf had responded to my posts about it (large posting he made a while back when he got back from vacation). Small Arms, or something, i could see, as a quick fix...
basically there needs to be a *lot* more sanity checking on who's offering to do what, such as the "please kill my friends" example about the Thukkers posted above.
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Jim Roynar
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Posted - 2003.10.29 20:32:00 -
[125]
Well. Progress is great. I am so happy that CCP constantly rewards the long term player by making changes so that the newer people do not stand much of a chance on getting in on the great rewards.
Thanks CCP.
Boneheads
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Ciber Wulf
|
Posted - 2003.11.01 08:36:00 -
[126]
Anyone know of even an approximate ETA for these changes to the agent system? I have been a mission player mostly since getting this game and I like to plan ahead.
Cheers
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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.11.02 20:06:00 -
[127]
Edited by: Veruna Caseti on 02/11/2003 20:07:00
With "the next big patch."
Assuming the next patch is going to be "big" then it should be sometime within the next year.
8 days ago the estimated patch day was "about 8 days from now." Still no word, so I'm guessing it's still at least "8 days from now."
See how that works. As long as they use relative references to time, they're always right? "The patch is tommorow... always tommorow."
Also, if you want to plan ahead, I would suggest don't do any more missions at all. The patch is probably going to screw faction standings, and annihilate any "plans" you had worked out anyway. Don't waste your time just to have them bulldozer over it in the blink of an eye.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2003.11.03 02:05:00 -
[128]
Edited by: j0sephine on 03/11/2003 02:06:12
"Also, if you want to plan ahead, I would suggest don't do any more missions at all. The patch is probably going to screw faction standings, and annihilate any "plans" you had worked out anyway. Don't waste your time just to have them bulldozer over it in the blink of an eye."
Papa Smurf, in the agents thread in Patch Review section:
Quote:
Yes, obviously the old standings don't work with the new system.
I was going to recalculate the standings database from scratch, but after quite a bit of work on it I found that it was impossible. We do not have enough data to do that properly.
After quite a bit of thought on the subject, it actually seems to me that simply halving the NPC->non-NPC standings of everybody when porting from old to new gives a nice, safe, and pretty well balanced port without messing anybody up in some unfair manner. The only hack I'd need to do then would be to ensure that you can talk to all of your agents after the patch, by ensuring that you have a high enough agent->char standing in all cases.
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Goldar Hektu
|
Posted - 2003.11.03 06:48:00 -
[129]
Quote:
I was going to recalculate the standings database from scratch, but after quite a bit of work on it I found that it was impossible. We do not have enough data to do that properly.
After quite a bit of thought on the subject, it actually seems to me that simply halving the NPC->non-NPC standings of everybody when porting from old to new gives a nice, safe, and pretty well balanced port without messing anybody up in some unfair manner.
That's correct. Instead, it messes everybody up in a fair manner. How can porting the data be impossible? CCP knows which agents I have, how many mission I've completed and failed, and my standings with the agent, corp, and faction. What else could they need to know?
Your 150mm Railgun II perfectly strikes Serpentis Drug Baron, wrecking for 192.8 damage. |
Falnaerith
|
Posted - 2003.11.04 07:11:00 -
[130]
@ Zrakor
Do you know of any changes that are being made/have been made to the trade market over the past few weeks? Specifically in the form of nerfing them. Particularly in the venal region.
Buy prices have been lowered, sell prices for robotics there have been raised to empire space prices. All amounts have been reduced.
Didn't know if this had anything to do with the dynamic market they are going to make or what, again, thank you for your time.
-------------------
Basic truths?
Idiots make us rich.
-
Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill them. |
Copernicus
|
Posted - 2003.11.05 22:00:00 -
[131]
I'm curious about the new "research agent" deal with Tech II coming up.
Are "research agents" totally separate from regular agents somehow?
I'm a researcher character (level 5's) but I've never done an agent mission. I'd prefer the new "hi-tech" stuff come from actual research type work. I'd like to think I get some benefit for choosing this line of work.
How about it anyone have any idea what it'll be like?
Should I start doing these very boring agent missions now? Or will Tech II Research Agents be totally different and based on your research level? (the way it should be).
Thanks,
Copernicus
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Xhalen Toth
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Posted - 2003.11.10 04:11:00 -
[132]
Out of curiousity, with the new implementation of rewards, is it going to be possible to offer a ship as a reward for a mission? Not a blueprint, but an actual fully funtional ship.
"A shadowy ichor is beginning to extend its tendrils into society." |
Papa Smurf
|
Posted - 2003.11.11 09:43:00 -
[133]
Ciber Wulf:
Last Friday (7th of Nov) there was supposed to be a week's code freeze, meaning the patch would be coming out 14th of Nov or later. The code freeze had to be delayed due to some major changes to the standing system that were decided on the 6th. Yup, we can be boneheads ;). Anyhow, the code freeze is now expected to be the 14th of Nov, making the patch likely to be shipping in the vicinity of the 21st of Nov. For those of you who need a more concrete answer than that, I'd suggest waiting for an official announcement.
Goldar: I can recalculate the standings based on missions. This would of course be fine according to you, but it would shaft everybody who has ever killed NPCs, bribed or donated. It would not take into account standing decay. It would not take into account that some missions are dead simple to complete, and some players only complete those missions. Additionaly, the proceedure required to do so would require a 24 hour+ downtime while our database jumped through hoops scanning through some of the most enormous tables it has.
Standings are virtually unused in EVE today, so what you're losing is a currency that had almost no value other than looking cool in your character sheet. This is changing, and that means devaluating the old standing coin so that the new standing coin can have some meaning.
Dividing everybody's standings in half is a fairly even-handed way of doing this. Sure, it hurts, but it'll have to be done.
Copernicus: The research agents are a service for standard agents. There may be changes in the future, but as it stands, you will require to work on your standings to get research agents, and there is no other good way to gain positive standings than via missions. So yes, you'll have to suffer the missions. There may be more ways in the future, some of which you may like, some of which you may dislike, but this is the method that's coming in now. Using research agents will however take your skills into account so being a researcher is rewarded. Effectively, you are the one doing the research. The agent is simply managing your research crew. There may be changes in the future, but seeing that skills are really a free ride, there will probably never be a skills-only solution.
Xhalen: It is possible to give a fully functioning ship as a reward in the new system. With modules, a custom name, a full cargo hold, etc. Anything the server can do can be done in a mission or an agent service now, which is a monumental step from where we were.
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Luther Pendragon
|
Posted - 2003.11.11 10:54:00 -
[134]
Quote:
Dividing everybody's standings in half is a fairly even-handed way of doing this. Sure, it hurts, but it'll have to be done.
Except I need a minimum standing rating to keep the agents that I have now. Right now, agents dont care if your standings fall, they still give you jobs. And my standings are pretty funky across the board, alot due to buying slaves which seem make the factions standings of all factions spasm.
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
Papa Smurf
|
Posted - 2003.11.11 11:37:00 -
[135]
The divide by two will come with making sure nobody loses their current agents. We'll be dishing out agent->char standings where necessary to patch that up.
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Alviarin
|
Posted - 2003.11.11 13:08:00 -
[136]
uhm, dividing a standing of 6 by two results in standing of 3...= 2nd lvl agents
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j0sephine
|
Posted - 2003.11.11 13:26:00 -
[137]
"uhm, dividing a standing of 6 by two results in standing of 3...= 2nd lvl agents"
... Agents have varying requirements, so some low quality lvl.3 agents will be willing to work fo you as well.
Plus, you are not really losing anything this way -- under the current system you're only given access to few selected lvl.3 agents, the ones you got through the referrals... and those few will still work for you under the new system, due to their personal standing towards you.
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capt
|
Posted - 2003.11.11 14:42:00 -
[138]
Quote:
Standings are virtually unused in EVE today, so what you're losing is a currency that had almost no value other than looking cool in your character sheet.This is changing, and that means devaluating the old standing coin so that the new standing coin can have some meaning.
Dividing everybody's standings in half is a fairly even-handed way of doing this. Sure, it hurts, but it'll have to be done.
The research agents are a service for standard agents. There may be changes in the future, but as it stands, you will require to work on your standings to get research agents, and there is no other good way to gain positive standings than via missions.
Hmm quite the contradiction there Papa Smurf.
Ok standing didn't quite have a meaning in the game untill now, but a lot of players like me were doing the missions anyway to raise our standings in anticipation of what was to come. And now we get rewarded for all our time and effort to see our precious hard earned standings by doin thousands of outright dropdead boring missions halved? YEP sounds very fair to me.
Quote:
I can recalculate the standings based on missions. This would of course be fine according to you, but it would shaft everybody who has ever killed NPCs, bribed or donated.
Hmmm last time i checked this was game was said to be a roleplaying game......right? So people who chose to bribe, kill NPCs, donated ect... chose that certain path for their character. So I don't really see how it would shaft them.
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capt
|
Posted - 2003.11.11 14:47:00 -
[139]
terribly sorry for this reply of mine to show up three times.
thought the forum was borked.
guess not
If some administrator could remove the 2 double replies? thnx
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Marrow
|
Posted - 2003.11.11 17:38:00 -
[140]
Capt, I don't think you're making sense. $50 of real money beats $100 of Monopoly money (i.e. not real) any day. The people who have put in more effort are not penalized to a larger degree than those who haven't -- if everyone gets half then the ratio stays the same. If someone worked to raise their mission count solely because they believed it would give them an advantage after a future code-change, then they made the mistake, not the devs.
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Xhalen Toth
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Posted - 2003.11.11 18:52:00 -
[141]
Fantastic, many thanks for the reply Papa Smurf.
"A shadowy ichor is beginning to extend its tendrils into society." |
Harisdrop
|
Posted - 2003.11.11 19:34:00 -
[142]
Although I dissagree on the divide by 2, I still think those that have -2.0 or better better take notice. As long as all my refferals are there I could careless. The main question is where do the social skills I have been waiting for fit in with agents.
Do agents know you are a blackmarket trader and act on that or any other skill?
--------------------------
Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Bigby
|
Posted - 2003.11.11 19:58:00 -
[143]
Quick question, will skills like blackmarket have an effect with the new standings or will we wait or those?
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2003.11.11 20:18:00 -
[144]
From my understanding Blackmarket is for standings. Getting something in the blackmarket, ie Cu Vapors for example would be cool. Though I think to buy or sell you have to have the skill... Therefore no more trade channel...
--------------------------
Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Sabahl
|
Posted - 2003.11.11 21:46:00 -
[145]
PapaSmurf
You cannot implement your announced plans for the agent research BP lottery. It will not work the way you intend it to. Please read my post on this thread ASAP. This is incredibly important. If you go forward with your ideas as written it will be disasterous.
Sabahl.
|
Alviarin
|
Posted - 2003.11.12 14:27:00 -
[146]
Quote:
... Agents have varying requirements, so some low quality lvl.3 agents will be willing to work fo you as well.
uhm, sure...but my awesome lvl3 agent will probably mind my standing loss!
unless my standing towards that particular agent is not halved or nothing...so my low faction standing PLUS my high standing towards that particular agent will grant me access to her services...
now that will be an interesting approach :)
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Illia Pol
|
Posted - 2003.11.12 14:37:00 -
[147]
Quote:
- Agents in the more combat oriented corporation types will be more likely to dish out npc kill missions than the other agents.
So, Intaki Commerce and Intaki Police are both members of the Intaki Syndicate Faction. Will the Intaki Police receive more kill missions? Or is it faction specific?
--
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j0sephine
|
Posted - 2003.11.12 14:39:00 -
[148]
"unless my standing towards that particular agent is not halved or nothing...so my low faction standing PLUS my high standing towards that particular agent will grant me access to her services...
now that will be an interesting approach :)"
... *sighs* y'know, no offense but please, next time read the whole message before replying? If you did that with either Papa Smurf's post or my follow up, you'd know he intends to do that pretty much the way you suggests...
So yes, you'll still be able to use services of your current lvl.3 agents (awesome or not) thanks to personal standings towards them being adjusted, so they still like you even if the other standings are halved.
|
Harisdrop
|
Posted - 2003.11.12 15:19:00 -
[149]
j0sephine,
You might want to change that sig of yours! Its in bad taste....
I wonder what importance of the value of the agent, +17 for example, will have on the new system?
--------------------------
Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2003.11.12 23:52:00 -
[150]
"j0sephine,
You might want to change that sig of yours! Its in bad taste...."
... Protein Delicacies, bad taste? Ohh but 9 out of 10 Gallente cooks as well as their kids disagree with you, Mr.Harisdrop ;s
|
Albar Gray
|
Posted - 2003.11.13 12:44:00 -
[151]
I have to say that I am really looking forward to a revised agent and mission system. And it will be nice to see the faction ratings have some meaning. However there are a couple of points I am unclear on.
Firstly, why is it actually necessary to reset a players existing ratings. Other than a need to prevent players auto picking up lvl 4 agents on dock if their ratings were over 8.00 I am not sure that this is necessary. And if that was the reason, could we not simply cap ratings at 6.00.
I had heard that the agents ability could alter the requirements for obtaining them, so I was wondering if this could be the case.
Secondly if the ratings are to be implemented properly, are the responses of non empire factions going to be set in line with the empires, or will we still be stuck with a two tier system.
At the moment I can do Amarr missions, see my Minmatar rating drop, and understand why they attack me when I go through their space. At present this does not apply to the pirate factions, if I do missions for them and have a +6.00 rating, they will still attack me when I go mining in their space.
I appreciate that this second point is a bit off subject for this forum, but it is intrinsic to the rating system. And I feel that it is time that such discrepancies were addressed.
I am glad that Papa Smurf took the time to tell us what was intended, but I just whish that we had more knowledge of how the system will or is intended to work, so we could understand what they are trying to achieve.
-----------------------------------------------
IÆm not schizophrenic...
ThatÆs my alt
|
Harisdrop
|
Posted - 2003.11.13 14:02:00 -
[152]
"Recent studies have indicated that there is a clear link between the consumption of Protein Delicacies and decreasing IQ. "
You Caldari owe us. All of us deserve at least a few million we need to buy int implants....
--------------------------
Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Faramir
|
Posted - 2003.11.13 17:07:00 -
[153]
I currently have 2 lvl 3 Concord agents and will be losing them next patch. I was wondering if I could desigante my new corp of choice to have the lvl 3 agents? I know which corp i want my new lvl 3 agents at and would like them to be transfered there.
My choice would be Duvolle Labs. Is there any chance my request can be met?
|
ShoGai Blade
|
Posted - 2003.11.14 19:55:00 -
[154]
Papa Smurf On my Main character I ran into a situation that was a bit alarming. At Level 3 mission 309 with the same agent, no failures no declined misions, I received a letter of introduction to the same agent....... Hmmm what gives. No sooner do I get that letter then a letter of mission failure arrives for a mission I completed the night before!!!!! So not only hvae I not received a mission for my racial BP ( up to 330 now) but my agent is getting snippy with me, my rewards have dropeed from a high of 202k (with bonus) to an average of 51199 down to 46k isk. I can't even fuel my ship for 46k let alone enjoy some quafe with my sh** eerrr Protien Delacacie Dogs in space!...... OH my agent is efsty Bourd in Pucherie and she is really hot. Perhaps she is getting Jealous? PS thanks for your hard work
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Othnark
|
Posted - 2003.11.16 05:21:00 -
[155]
What about playing faction games? IE blowing up an Amar faction convoy in minmitar space? I recently did this and saw no boost to my minmitar faction although i took down about 1 faction point worth of my Amarr standing. I havent had achance to test this on Chaos, anybody know if this works as it should?
-Othnark
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Phaethon
|
Posted - 2003.11.17 16:47:00 -
[156]
I have been going the concord route with regards to agents, and now have a good handfull of lvl2 and 3's in Concord.
My suggestion is to convert all current Concord agents to DED agents, as DED is a Concord corp, but has a normal corp rating, unlike the sec status/corp status that is percieved a problem with Concord agents
WTB. Infifitrator I drones |
Darth Tom
|
Posted - 2003.11.19 12:03:00 -
[157]
Quote:
Hmmm last time i checked this was game was said to be a roleplaying game......right? So people who chose to bribe, kill NPCs, donated ect... chose that certain path for their character. So I don't really see how it would shaft them.
Because standings are an aggregate of all of those activities.
Someone who just killed Angel pirates since day 1 would have an excellent Minmatar faction standing. Why should that get wiped out because they never did an agent mission?
All standings being cut in half hurts - but as PapaSmurf said, standings mean nothing atm except as a way to get referrals to higher agents.
If I have to lose 50% of all my standings, in exchange for a *working* faction system that means something - then it's cheap at the price.
As long as my Level 3 agents will still deal with me when I've got a faction standing of 2 or something.
And PapaSmurf has said that that will be the case - therefore there's no real issue with this.
Apart from some whining from people who have attached value to some meaningless numbers.
With the faction system reworked, not only will it be easier to get good standing (which is *good* for the newer players), but that standing will start to mean something more than just a fastrack to BPs and implants.
Try looking at the wider game plan.
Cheers,
TOM
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Ciber Wulf
|
Posted - 2003.11.22 14:58:00 -
[158]
Quote:
Ciber Wulf:
Last Friday (7th of Nov) there was supposed to be a week's code freeze, meaning the patch would be coming out 14th of Nov or later. The code freeze had to be delayed due to some major changes to the standing system that were decided on the 6th. Yup, we can be boneheads ;). Anyhow, the code freeze is now expected to be the 14th of Nov, making the patch likely to be shipping in the vicinity of the 21st of Nov. For those of you who need a more concrete answer than that, I'd suggest waiting for an official announcement.
Thanks for the reply Papa Smurf.
So, as we stand (22nd Nov), there may be something new happening pretty soon?
In which case.. woohoo \o/ . We've just had a new 'unofficial' patch, which is great btw :) and new mission content coming very soon.
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Darth Rachel
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Posted - 2003.11.24 06:05:00 -
[159]
Will Sisters of eve drop implants and/or bp in the new patch?
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ClawHammer III
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Posted - 2003.11.27 03:11:00 -
[160]
Edited by: ClawHammer III on 27/11/2003 03:24:38
Well, I like the idea of research agents. It keeps Tech 1 from becoming obsolete overnight and provides a way for people who do agent missions with a chance to make some real money and become a more active part in the community by producing or trading Tech2 related stuff and services for other people.
The main problem I have with agent missions is that they are boring. They are mostly lame courier missions that turn you into an underpaid FedEx guy. Instead having agents issue a bunch of boring and thoughtless missions they should issue more challenging missions like finding hidden pirate spawns or rare items or find someone shipping contrabandà that kind of thing. Of course those missions would be more time consuming but they would be much more interesting and rewarding.
Players should be given a choice to do a hard mission that would score them a lot of standing points and have a higher chance of giving you a major reward or do more mundane missions that are easier to complete but give less standings and a smaller chance for a major reward.
It would also be really cool if they added really hard missions that could be issued to whole gangs... like taking out other players.
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Tellora
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Posted - 2003.11.29 21:55:00 -
[161]
I like that, but - as always - it's gotta be seen implemented to really judge it
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Ravenal
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Posted - 2003.11.30 22:56:00 -
[162]
there was a list posted about which corps the reserach agents work for.
i noticed that this list is lacking the corps that actually sell blueprints in the game, and should thus be the "researching" corps...
please fix this ...error
...new sig coming up
Ravenal - Fate is what you make of it. |
Mars Volta
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Posted - 2003.12.03 18:56:00 -
[163]
Adequate faction standing ? what exactly does taht mean? concord and ded already have some of the most useless agents ie no inplant missions, so why should people who have done missions for these agents be punished for exploring the less rewarding avenues of agent missions-sounds ass backwars to me.
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Caldfyr Reynolds
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Posted - 2003.12.04 11:26:00 -
[164]
Quote:
j0sephine,
You might want to change that sig of yours! Its in bad taste....
I wonder what importance of the value of the agent, +17 for example, will have on the new system?
Do you ever know where it comes from? I thought it was very cool, but then I'm a huge fan of Cowboy Bebop.
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Caldfyr Reynolds
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Posted - 2003.12.04 11:30:00 -
[165]
I might have missed it somewhere, but since there are a finite amount of tech 2 items and the blueprints aren't going to be coming in droves, will you run out of blueprints before all the people building up research points are rewarded?
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Caldfyr Reynolds
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Posted - 2003.12.04 12:45:00 -
[166]
This article ( http://www.eve-i.com/article.php?id=51 ) has no mention of Sisters of Eve having R&D agents, but this other post ( http://www.eve-i.com/fullnews.php?id=891 ) shows them as having 2 R&D agents. Which is correct? I hopped onto chaos and sisters don't seem to have any research agents.
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burntout
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Posted - 2003.12.09 05:44:00 -
[167]
2 months later....
What patch?
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GardenerOfEden
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Posted - 2003.12.10 04:07:00 -
[168]
Edited by: GardenerOfEden on 10/12/2003 04:11:58
Edited by: GardenerOfEden on 10/12/2003 04:08:51
Greater variety of agent missions, types of missions being more consistent with issuing corp, more expansive mission reward system, etc are all positive changes .
The only change I have a problem with conceptually is the unrestricted decay of standings on the basis that is is unrealistic. By way of illustration the "standings" of, say, Adolf [Hit1er] and Robin Hood have not really decayed long after their deaths. Similarly within EVE you don't encounter Lord Zap upon his return and think just another 0.0 security status character .
I prefer the "band" system as being more realistic. This system is used in the existing system with not being able to exceed 2x agent level e.g. it doesn't matter how many lvl1 missions you complete you are not going to become a living legend because delivering livestock etc is not the stuff of legends.
Decay by itself should not cause a character to fall into the band below i.e. 10 should never decay (legends are actually embellished with time), 9.9 to 8.1 should decay to 8.0 only, 7.9 to 6.1 should decay to 6.0 only, 5.9 to 4.1 should decay to 4.0 only, 3.9 to 2.1 should decay to 2.0 only, and only 1.9- should decay to 0.0
This would also help players who take a break from EVE not having to start-over to the same extent. Logging on per se is not a measure of being able to play eg. only have time to deal with training or don't have high speed flat rate internet while on holiday. Don't forget that if this patch hits just before Xmas that is equivalent in the southern hemisphere to July in US, August in Europe as regards holidays and there will be no time to build up standings (with existing 2xlvl cap and such standings being halved by the patch) in advance of going on Christmas holidays.
EVE is a massive social experiment of human interaction facilitated by computer technology |
Alouicious
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Posted - 2003.12.11 18:32:00 -
[169]
I am not sure about the Standing decay and how I feel about it, if its a very slow decay I suppose that wouldnt be so bad. But who really wants to do nothing but run missions? I wouldnt want my standing to decay any noticeable amount if for a month I couldnt log on or wanted to do something besides be my factions little pack mule.
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sturmi
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Posted - 2003.12.12 08:20:00 -
[170]
i dont understand the meaning of agents(without implants) 
Proud Member of the League of Free Terrans
Stolzes Mitglied der Liga Freier Terraner |
Riddari
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Posted - 2003.12.13 04:06:00 -
[171]
Oh hey no problem
Quote:
Dividing everybody's standings in half is a fairly even-handed way of doing this. Sure, it hurts, but it'll have to be done.
Yes very even handed, it takes me as long to get back to 6.95 as it takes someone to get back to his standing of 2.0 right?
Right?
Those that have invested LOTS of time into gaining faction standings (personally I am 6+ for Minmatar, Gallente and Amarr) are going to see 50% of them wiped out because of some players bribing?
I bribed my Caldari agent to go from 0 to 0.52 Caldari standing, by all means remove that if bribing is bad.
I guess seeing my hard work being thrown out is just yet another reason to enter hibernation again
¼©¼
a history |
Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2003.12.14 07:20:00 -
[172]
Bribing has nothing to do with it I believe .. the major part is that for the first week or two of release you could spend a day or two killing pirates and have 10.0 with all the empires (sufficient to use any agent they ever add instantly)
That and the old ratings didn't mean much and now they will
.
-----
Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.12.14 21:14:00 -
[173]
Edited by: j0sephine on 14/12/2003 21:15:09
"Yes very even handed, it takes me as long to get back to 6.95 as it takes someone to get back to his standing of 2.0 right?
Right?"
Right. The higher your current standing, the higher the gain you get from each mission. So it will take you the same time to get back to your higher original value, because you will be starting from higher point...
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Lioness
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Posted - 2003.12.17 01:43:00 -
[174]
Dumb question, but how do you find out what agent corporations are "more military" so you can get more npc pirate kill missions? |
Tirren
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Posted - 2003.12.17 06:55:00 -
[175]
********************
The Jovian Empire and Concord factions have closed the services of their agents, for now. The people who finished loads of missions for either of these factions will recieve adequate standing with another faction.
********************
Patch is in, and I cant' even use my Level 2 CONCORD agent which I was close to gaining my first 3rd level agent. I lose half my fac/corp standing with CONCORD and receive no matching standing of another faction/corp. I worked my butt off, not to mention collected lots of loot which I have to haul to another base to start missions all over, and to top it off my ship doesn't exceed 10% of the previous speed I was able to get with a MWD, it is taking more than forever to move between stations.
"I can only take so much before I'll blow up my own ship. Hey isn't that what insurance is for?"
EVE Agent Info Guide v1.21 |
Finderne
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Posted - 2003.12.17 15:05:00 -
[176]
Ppl (Mars, Tirren) complaining about Concord agents should be a bit more honest about why you were sinking time into working for a faction that you knew didn't give implants, and wasn't going to be any better after the patch.
You were doing that because Concord faction missions drag up lots of other factions, far more than any other corporation does. You did it to set yourself up for the Castor system.
That said, CCP did promise a faction conversion so they should follow through with it. Right after they get to the 4000 other things on the Soon(TM) list.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2003.12.17 16:38:00 -
[177]
Quote:
Dumb question, but how do you find out what agent corporations are "more military" so you can get more npc pirate kill missions?
Any corporation which has a "Security" or "Internal Security" division, those agents will probably give mostly kill missions. Also, working for any empire's main military branch (Federation Navy, Ammatar Fleet, etc.) provided you're not working for the Supplies section or some such.
Basically, a little logical thinking helps
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Majin Buu
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Posted - 2003.12.17 18:44:00 -
[178]
im currently doing missions for khanid royal navy. The agent im working for is in the internal security division, so he gives out alot of NPC kill missions.
The thing i want to know is how will i be able to get the research agents in the khanid innovations corp?. Ive looked through the whole corp and the lowest agent is a lvl 2 agent with a -1 rating. I asked a polaris member about this and was told that i need to increase my standings towards there allies, therfore increasing my standings towards khanid innovations so i started working for khanid royal navy. As i got more missions done i noticed my standings towards the navy corp was increasing, and towards khanid kingdom, but when i have looked at khanid innovations my standings towards them is still 0.00, so can a DEV/GM plz reply to this explaining how i can go about increasing my standings towards khanid innovations without actually working for there agents?
Alos a little bit more info..Khanid innovations corp was added during the tech 2 patch, They have only 1 station in khanid prime and from there info they have no allies or enemys...
BoB KillBoard |
Papa Smurf
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Posted - 2003.12.18 14:40:00 -
[179]
I think this thread justifies unstickying now that the patch is out.
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Tirren
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Posted - 2003.12.19 13:20:00 -
[180]
Quote:
Ppl (Mars, Tirren) complaining about Concord agents should be a bit more honest about why you were sinking time into working for a faction that you knew didn't give implants, and wasn't going to be any better after the patch.
Actually I was doing CONCORD because I thought people were lying about what corps gave the Perception Implant, as well it brings my sec status up in CONCORD and I wanted to be set apart from the "pirates". I also did CONCORD missions because I was trying to raise my Amarr stat up enough to get a level 1 agent so that I could work to get the Amarr implant.
Quote:
You were doing that because Concord faction missions drag up lots of other factions, far more than any other corporation does. You did it to set yourself up for the Castor system.
I really didn't know what to expect from the CASTOR update, didn't even know about it until 2 days before but even then I was too busy playing to read the forums. In fact I do not understand why they cut everyones ratings in half seems sorta harsh becuase it took TONS of time for me to get to 6.0 in the corps I had and now I have to do it all over again.
"I can only take so much before I'll blow up my own ship. Hey isn't that what insurance is for?"
EVE Agent Info Guide v1.21 |
Yalson
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Posted - 2003.12.21 13:13:00 -
[181]
Any news on the concord situation? Six agents, among them two level 3s, waiting to be transfered to another corp.
As for why Concord, they were among the first agents I received, so I stuck to them. Besides, specializing in recon/intelligence I was hoping they'd hand out appropriate missions eventually.
Cheers,
-- Yalson
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Ciber Wulf
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Posted - 2003.12.21 13:47:00 -
[182]
I had a level one and a level 2 concord agent before the patch. I was trying to get good standing with ammatar, so I could work for perception implants, but it seems this was really aimed at amarr characters (amarr are alled with ammatar, so amarr mission players would have easily been able to get ammatar agents ). I missed the bus by a long way there!
However, to get back to the point. Since the castor patch I have lost my concord agents, but I have got great standings with at least two agents I have never worked for, 1 level 1 and 1 level 2. So all seems fair.
Check your (new, more sophisticated) standings tab in your charactersheet to find agents that like you.
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Ruffles
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Posted - 2003.12.22 14:01:00 -
[183]
Just to let you know the Concord agents did get replaced.
However, you will only find your new agents listed in your Standings in your Character sheet. They will be names you don't recognise normally as your other agents in your Address Book.
However, you may find your standings to the level 3 agents aren't sufficient to use them initially. You will have to raise a support issue if that is the case.
However, you get Zero corp faction standing with the new agents corporation, so in effect you will have to put in a lot of work to get back to a reasonable level. Of course, your new agents faction will be the only one that raises, and from what I see if you fail to do mission for agents from other factions their factions will decay as well (even race factions).
However, doing one races lowers another, so you are on a permenant looser if you are trying to keep possitive with all factions. Its just a matter of time before one or more are negative, and from what I gather if you drop below -5 on their factions standings their forces (Navy/Police) will attack you on entering 0.5-1.0 systems.
To be honest, in its current form it appears there is more work to do to maintain a positive faction, hell even my security status is falling as well due, I assume, to some decay.
I would like to know how this affects people with negative factions? Are your factions approaching zero as time goes by with this decay?
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Fuse
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Posted - 2003.12.26 20:54:00 -
[184]
Edited by: Fuse on 26/12/2003 20:59:41
Quote:
Edited by: Zrakor on 17/12/2003 19:09:25
Edited by: Zrakor on 30/10/2003 20:28:17
- More rare loot added into the rewards for completing certain agent missions, such as unique modules which cannot be produced in a factory (i.e. no blueprints for them are available). The ISK rewards have also been beefed up over the board.
st
Can you implement a system where the agent standings and level effect the type of loot you get? Level 1 agents would give out small (frigate level items) Level 2 would give out medium items and Level 3 would give out Large items for battleships and such. Getting a small item for a difficult mission seems not right.
0.o It's not you... no wait it is you. |
Kinjite
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Posted - 2004.01.02 08:01:00 -
[185]
Edited by: Kinjite on 02/01/2004 08:02:26
Well in trying to disseminate all the information on Agents I'm still confused on 2 things; 1) "you need ab effective faction, corp, or personal rating of x.xx to use this Agent", now what this says to me is that you need to meet at least one of the statements criteria (hence the "or") the system checks your standing with the NPC corp first on Faction, then your corp, and then you. what I'm finding is this is not working (based on my above understanding) I'll use Corp for my case since manypeople in a corp doing mission's for the same NPC corp will raise this standing fastest. the agent I want to use lets say wants a 2.25 standing (again by the statement it needs to be either in Faction or corp or personal) my corp has a NPC Corp standing (with the Agent Corp I'm trying to use) of 2.96 yet I am unable to yet use this agent... Please explain this system better obviously the Statement of the Agent is incorrect and you need to meet ALL the criteria not just in one.
2) a few times now I've gotten to use agents that are "not availible to me" this is not a sudden change in status but a consistant discrepincy, one agent I've been working for days and yet technically by the NPC corp list he is not supposed to be. this is after several log off and server reboots - This information is invaluble to us as players and needs looking at as we try to plan a map of Agents....
Chief Security Officer - Kusari Systems
"and Death shall have no dominion"
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Paul Dubois
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Posted - 2004.01.02 12:27:00 -
[186]
Fuse, some of us who do the level 3 agent missions don't fly battleships, and whilst we can always sell em I would hate to lose out on any unique goodies.
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