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Zrakor
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:00:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Zrakor on 17/12/2003 19:09:25
Edited by: Zrakor on 30/10/2003 20:28:17
I've noticed alot of confusion about the new agent system and some issues with the old system such as the blueprint and implant missions. I normally try not to reveal much about the specifics of the agents, as I feel players should discover these things by themselves, but I'll make an exception this time due to the system changing so dramatically.
Here are some of the new things which will be implemented with the new agent system AND things to come (which might or might not make it in the next patch):
- Agents will rely almost totally on player standing towards them, their corporation and their faction. For example, if a player has 0 standing to a faction, he will be able to recieve missions from every level 1 agent of that faction of a certain quality. As his standing increases, higher quality and eventually higher level agents of that faction will want to deal with him and allow him to use their services. The player can raise his standing with as many factions as he wants, but keeping them all happy is virtually an impossible task, since when he gains standing to faction A, he will lose standing to the enemy of faction A (faction B and C).
- More rare loot added into the rewards for completing certain agent missions, such as unique modules which cannot be produced in a factory (i.e. no blueprints for them are available). The ISK rewards have also been beefed up over the board.
- The Jovian Empire and Concord factions have closed the services of their agents, for now. The people who finished loads of missions for either of these factions will recieve adequate standing with another agent of a faction that is open. High personal standing allows the player to use them despite a low corp/faction standing. To find them, check your standings table in the character sheet.
- The basic implant missions will be in the form of courier missions for most of the factions, not trade missions. The old implant trade missions will still be in the game, they just will have other loot as a reward instead of an implant. The attribue giving implants will be given per corporation type, instead of per faction.
- No more "give me 10 tritanium for 50000 ISK missions (which didn't make any sense). Agents will ask for much more minerals or ore, and won't pay a rediculous amount for cheap minerals. However by raising your standing and social skills and dealing with high quality agents you can raise the reward of these missions considerably.
- Agent missions will mostly use standing pre-requirements, instead of the old "mission success count". We also intend to change the success count concept to "per faction" instead of to "per agent" eventually, but I'm not positive if that change will make it before the next patch.
- We are slowly dropping the concept of "trade missions" in their current form. Instead we will eventually move them to the black market system (which won't make it in the next patch but will most likely make it in the one after that, some of the current trade missions, like the ally in need missions, have been switched to courier). This means agents will ask for items, but it won't be in the form of a normal mission, it will be more of a market service where certain agents want to buy certain items.
- Lots of new npc kill and scenario missions. We also beefed them up over the board, so you might find the level 3 kill missions quite a bit harder than before. The beauty of the new system though is that if you aren't up to doing those missions, you can always just visit the less-combat mission heavy agents. With so many agents at your disposal, if you don't like a mission someone offers, just try the next one.
- Agents in the more combat oriented corporation types will be more likely to dish out npc kill missions than the other agents.
- Lots of more loot drops, especially in the kill missions. But also the occasional courier mission will have a random loot drop. Most of the new loot drops will be via loot tables, i.e. there will be randomness involved in the loot you get.
- The station UI will now show only available agents at that station. The People & Places window is where you want to store the agents you like (i.e. just use the add to adressbook option to put them in there).
- The old blueprint missions have changed so that they give a random blueprint copy (i.e. limited uses) and are no longer only "once per character". The agents are generally not very happy with the current system where people simply use them to get a bp then turn their back on them.
- Standings will slowly decay. The various factions in the game do not like you forever if you forget about them. What this means basically is that you will need to do things for your faction every now and then to keep your standing up. By far the best way to raise st
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Revy
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:05:00 -
[2]
Sounds good 
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Muaddid
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:10:00 -
[3]
interesting... any idea when this major patch will come ? a week ? 3 weeks ? for such a system you must still have a general idea of how long itll take to weed the bugs out, no ? :)
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Ayar Cachi
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:11:00 -
[4]
Wow, kickass post Zrakor. Thanks for providing info on all the changes and some timeline *estimates*.
If you read the replies, here are my questions:
1) Agent People & Places UI. Is this getting any attention? Sorting based on faction, standings, quality? User-defined *folders* like the Bookmarks have (er, used to have ;)
2) What's happening to our current standings? I don't mean the display number, I mean the *effective* standing numbers to agents and factions and corps that we've developed over time while playing the game. Maintained but used in the new scheme? Effectively reset? Adjusted and then used in the new scheme?
Well, thanks. I love seeing communication with users via the official forums.
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Zrakor
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:13:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Zrakor on 20/11/2003 16:33:37
Continuation of the topic:
- A few missions are sequential, i.e. you are required to finish mission A to have a chance of getting mission B. This system wasn't being used alot in the old system. Usually these sequential missions are faction or corporation type specific.
- Research agents, which will hand out tech level II blueprints through an agent service. They WILL make it in the next patch.
Things to come which definately wont make it in the next patch:
- More types of implants (other than attribue giving implants) and boosters (drugs which can affect your character's abilities and attributes, not to be confused with the commodity drugs).
- Level 4-5 missions. They will be geared towards corporations and individuals, and will have much better rewards.
That's all for now (I might be forgetting something, but I'll try and keep you posted). Also note that anything listed here may change in the future. I just don't like to keep you completely in the dark ;).
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Zrakor
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:18:00 -
[6]
 Quote:
Wow, kickass post Zrakor. Thanks for providing info on all the changes and some timeline *estimates*.
If you read the replies, here are my questions:
1) Agent People & Places UI. Is this getting any attention? Sorting based on faction, standings, quality? User-defined *folders* like the Bookmarks have (er, used to have ;)
2) What's happening to our current standings? I don't mean the display number, I mean the *effective* standing numbers to agents and factions and corps that we've developed over time while playing the game. Maintained but used in the new scheme? Effectively reset? Adjusted and then used in the new scheme?
Well, thanks. I love seeing communication with users via the official forums.
I'll check with the UI programmer about the P&P window tomorrow.
I'm not certain what will happen to the current standings, but you won't be able to keep your 10 in faction standing unless you work for it. We don't intend to allow people to simply jump to level 5 agents with little work involved. So do expect some loss of standing if you have an abnormally high standing.
But you won't lose your current agents, so if you have a level 3 agent in a faction you will probably be raised to somewhere around 4-6 in standing to that faction so that you will be able to keep the agent when the new system is implemented.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:19:00 -
[7]
Edited by: j0sephine on 20/10/2003 00:20:24
"Wild guess: 8-10 days. Just maybe the end of this week, but I'm not giving out any promises."
... That sounds rather too soon, given the new scripted agent system didn't undergo any user tests... as the Chaos server was down and on those rare moments it was up, people were reporting no agents would speak to them whatsoever... o.O
Other than that, the info sounds great... looking forward to see how it actually works out. :s
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:25:00 -
[8]
j0 - wasnt the agent silence down to all standings having been set to zero?
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Muaddid
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:26:00 -
[9]
aye, for such a big change 8-10 days... 
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Zrakor
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:26:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Zrakor on 20/10/2003 00:26:50
Quote:
Edited by: j0sephine on 20/10/2003 00:20:24
"Wild guess: 8-10 days. Just maybe the end of this week, but I'm not giving out any promises."
... That sounds rather too soon, given the new scripted agent system didn't undergo any user tests... as the Chaos server was down and on those rare moments it was up, people were reporting no agents would speak to them whatsoever... o.O
Other than that, the info sounds great... looking forward to see how it actually works out. :s
We will be making a concentrated effort on testing the new system next week. Chaos isn't the only server we test on, but you're right about our bughunter team not being able to test them at all. This will be remedy'd tomorrow. 8-10 days is being very optimistic of course  .
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:36:00 -
[11]
Edited by: j0sephine on 20/10/2003 00:38:22
"j0 - wasnt the agent silence down to all standings having been set to zero?"
Aye, possible but if i understand it correctly having the standings at 0.0 should still allow one to access missions from at least some low quality lvl.1 agents... and the problem was no agent was answering to the 'Talk to' option at all, which sounds either like a bug or the result of Chaos server being really, really slow... o.O
I'd be happy to be able to check things myself, but for the last couple of builds the beta client doesn't react to 'return' key nor to click on the 'connect' button on the login screen anymore. 9.9
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Sabahl
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:49:00 -
[12]
Here is a consideration I have just discovered. On some of the kill missions you will actually lose faction with the corporation's own faction based upon the type of target you are told to go kill. For instance, Thukker Mix agents sending out characters to kill angels will result in a loss of faction towards Thukker Mix.
Something to think about nd possibly work on coding around as it really makes no sense at all.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:50:00 -
[13]
Quote:
Here is a consideration I have just discovered. On some of the kill missions you will actually lose faction with the corporation's own faction based upon the type of target you are told to go kill. For instance, Thukker Mix agents sending out characters to kill angels will result in a loss of faction towards Thukker Mix.
Something to think about nd possibly work on coding around as it really makes no sense at all.
Buy a copy of NWN - use built-in faction tracking system - voila! 
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hainnas
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Posted - 2003.10.20 00:54:00 -
[14]
Awesome update, thanks Zrakor.
Question, you said the kill missions will be "beefed up", will this include some harder pirates (greater than 50k bounties... maybe even... bships?)?
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Muaddid
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Posted - 2003.10.20 01:00:00 -
[15]
this post should get a sticky btw :P
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Tharrn
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Posted - 2003.10.20 01:19:00 -
[16]
This sounds awesome and would make perfect sense if it works :)
It also resolved a petition I had just filed...narf ;)
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Supersonix
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Posted - 2003.10.20 01:23:00 -
[17]
Great post. Really nice to at last hear something from the dev's on the forums.
Support the Alternative market proposition. Clicky clicky. |
Halo Jones
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Posted - 2003.10.20 01:34:00 -
[18]
This is excellent information, there is only so much patch notes cna cover, there are only so many changes players can figure out immediately, when a gaming are ais being improved so much, it is really wonderful to have such quality information prior to the event.
Good posting Zrakor, thx.
Oberon Incorporated. |
dalman
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Posted - 2003.10.20 02:11:00 -
[19]
I see nothing about "pirate factions".
Is the work done on them or is that for later patches? And if the work is done, does that mean they will start handing out boosters (like others give implants) after this patch?
However, the changes sounds very good
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Archemedes
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Posted - 2003.10.20 02:24:00 -
[20]
I have to say, this sounds great. Sure the original BPs are nice, but getting limited-run BPs more than once per agent (without having to do 300 more L3 missions) will be fine ESPECIALLY if they are randomized. Maybe the Amarr players will actually visit their agents once they know a limited Miner 2 copy and a NON-Charisma implant are possible. 
As far as the L4-L5 agent missions go, PLEASE don't make them require a large group though! Agent missions are one of the few places a freelancer or small corp can compete... if you need half a dozen people online at once to do a L5 agent then that lets out small corps who only HAVE 10 people total (since there won't be more than 3 or 4 logged in at a given time). Or at least make them MUCH more rewarding and MUCH longer-lasting so the corp can set up a group to do it...
Of course, large corps really shouldn't be doing agent missions at all. They should be GIVING agent missions! Any thoughts on letting PC megacorps make their OWN agent missions? Perhaps Techell or Hadean Drive Yards could develop a new Tech 2 ship (at a very high cost) and then give out BP copies as a mission reward for large mineral supply missions or something... or Space Invaders could give out kill missions targeting corps they are at war with but are too busy to attack at the moment. After all, it's got to be hard to keep track of THAT many enemies...
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Riose Bel
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Posted - 2003.10.20 02:35:00 -
[21]
If my faction status should go under 4.00 will i lose all my liv 3 contacts?
This would scared me a lot 
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tameron
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Posted - 2003.10.20 02:48:00 -
[22]
For the Individual who whants nothing to do with working for a palyer corp this is a mixed bag of good and bad , I like the idea of improvements to the current systems ,but as a dedicated frelance worker i feel dissapionted that i may not get the chance to work for higher agents .
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Draka
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Posted - 2003.10.20 03:15:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Draka on 20/10/2003 03:16:53
Let me ask for clarification on one overriding point - I have a Corporation Standing with Republic Security Service of 6.0, a Corporation Standing of 2.0 with the Brutor Tribe, am currently working on the Six Kin Development Corporation (Minmatar Faction) and have an overall Minmatar Faction standing of 5.87. I have MANY Minmatar faction Agents (20 plus) ranging from Level 1 to Level 3. Exactly WHICH Minmatar standings will be reset by this change?
I really don't care about the other factions - but I am working really hard to maximize any and all Minmatar ones. I am concerned that the overall Minmatar faction will be capped by the highest Minmatar Corporation Standing, or any other cap once the Agent limiting cap is gone.
CEO
The Cinnaban Order
"Dedicated to a Free Minmatar Republic" |
Kalki Nibiru
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Posted - 2003.10.20 06:30:00 -
[24]
Please oh please tell me that the time limits for level 3 agents will be gone. Doing level 3 agent missions for me is very time consuming, I'm not a power gamer, I barely get to play an hour a day and I'm hearing of people doing 50 level 3 agent missions and still not getting implants; 50*15=750 Mins or 12.5 hours. To me that seems unreasonable for people who want to get the rewards, but dont have the time to play.
Sure the rewards shouldnt be handed out quickly, but agent missions are boring and tedious, their rewards are largely worthless with the exception of implants and some blue prints. Personally, I have done around 100 missions for one level 2 agent (probably a little over 500 missions total for all agents) and I can tell you that it took me a long time to do those 100 missions, if I got an implant every 65 missions succeeded, that would be fair as doing 65 missions still takes a lot of time.
I understand that rewards wont be based off of mission successes anymore, and I'm not quite sure I understand the new "pre-requisite" system, but I urge you to find some way to get rid of the time limit delay. I know it would be hard to ballance things, but it would at least make it fair. I bought eve because unlike other games, I dont need to play a majority of the day to compete with other people.
Even if you cant do what I ask, please post to tell me you have read what I have typed.
Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate
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<Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market?
<Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.10.20 06:55:00 -
[25]
Quote:
The old blueprint missions have changed so that they give a random blueprint copy (i.e. limited uses) and are no longer only "once per character".
Have changed, have changed!! Already, well thanks a lot, can I have a cup of poison with that dagger?
Convert Stations
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Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2003.10.20 07:12:00 -
[26]
time delay is fine. yes, theyre boring, but the point is to make them interesting, not insta and pointless.
On another concern is the player corp to npc corp rating. Will that still be there? Will other players in your corp mess up your gurista agent relations because they shoot gurista npcs?
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
Kalki Nibiru
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Posted - 2003.10.20 07:30:00 -
[27]
How are they intersting? They are by far the most mundane and useless tasks, this is exacerbated by the fact that the rewards are insignificant.
Lets say that it takes 50 missions to get an implant (which it seems is not the case) that would mean you would have to do missions for that agent for 12.5 hours straight. And what do you get for the other missions you completed? Nothing worth mentioning thats for sure.
With the system as it is, it would take me almost two weeks to get an implant.
Dont get me wrong here, there needs to some effort put in, but currently these missions arent interesting. If they made the missions enjoyable and offered decent rewards I wouldnt be complaining, but they dont, at least not if you cant play 5-6 hours a day.
Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate
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<Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market?
<Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with |
Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2003.10.20 07:37:00 -
[28]
I didnt say they were interesting, I said to make them interesting. time delay is beside the point, removing that wont make them interesting. yes, then you can do more, but I didnt care about that part.
And its also less relevent with the upcomming changes arent they? Theyre moving away from doing X total missions to get X implants and towards pure standing based system. So its less important now to do alot of missions very fast, I think...
____________________________________
Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
McWatt
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Posted - 2003.10.20 07:44:00 -
[29]
lol
nothing special, but the crowd starts cheering.
all critical voices are limited to the "what wil happen to my standings" whine.
without wanting to give any tips,
to make real missions you ll need:
1. some AI on NPC
2. a working faction system
again ccp is basing new stuff on a system that s not in game yet (remember missiles/agility?)
i see a causal chain running from the accidential drop of a miner v ending (?) here.
this is bs. start the **** working on important issues
and turn that ******* priority list of yours upside down.
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Siegfried Tron
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Posted - 2003.10.20 07:52:00 -
[30]
As you can see, they are improving the faction system, so your issue #2 will probably be solved (this time or next).
NPC AI? It seems to me that a PC AI is much more needed.
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