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Lord Spidey Hmmzor. Muffins of Mayhem	Posted - 2006.09.18 20:31:00 - [121] Edited by: Lord Spidey on 18/09/2006 20:31:19 Task Force 'BlueBerry' consisting of 13 MoM pilots just intercepted an ISS gang of 41 people in KDF leaving to assist in 9UY. Upon our arrival in system the ISS Taskforce consisting of 41 people immediately and unconditionally docked leaving us with nothing to prey upon but those slow to warp or to far away to dock. After popping numerous frigs that continued to undock to conduct scouting operations we have decided to leave the area and seek greener pastures Task Force 'BlueBerry" will now continue roaming the area and tryto disrupt all ISS gangs trying to head up towards the site of the conflict
Mangold Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.09.18 20:33:00 - [122] Lets drop this killboard show off please? I've backed my words with killmails (to Endless) and even though they are insignificant in this fight it still shows that the pirate alliance killboard is not accurate enough to use it to talk about killratio. I don't think any killboard is accurate enough for that tbh.
Chode Rizoum Minmatar Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.09.18 21:04:00 - [123] tbh. i dont know if we will win... but we will sure as hell try VIVA !
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.18 21:15:00 - [124] I thought the idea of a ransom was that you had to pose some sort of threat to the thing being ransommed? --------------------------------------------------------------------
Svabbzor The Kru Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2006.09.18 21:27:00 - [125] Originally by: Maggot U'K is killing more than we are losing. I am very happy about the quality of that data. Just a friendly reminder that in our killboard if you go to the campaign "UK kills"=how many we have killed and "UK losses"=how many we have lost to UK I dont understand why it appears like this just wanted to make sure you understand it also All The Kru video's Signature file size to big, please keep it under 24000 bytes - Petwraith
Verizana The Kru Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2006.09.18 21:52:00 - [126] Originally by: ReaperOfSly I thought the idea of a ransom was that you had to pose some sort of threat to the thing being ransommed? dont act like you dont know baby. we're high enough threat for getting Ushra'Khan's backup ffs. I dont think you could be so chilled about it as you are trying to let your self seem to be in here.
Solusar Amarr Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.18 22:03:00 - [127] Originally by: Ange1 Personally, I think its all good. Much of the South is uniting against us evil pirates and I think thats marvellous... regardless of the outcome. Even polar opposite enemies (CVA/UK) seem to have put aside differences enough to combat the threat we're presenting. We can all agree the Lag has ruined many areas of this conflict, which is a great shame. On another note, less arguing, less smack, more fighting (to all concerned). CVA and UK have definately not put aside our differences, the war is still active and patrols of low security space around the Bleak Lands and Amatar space continue as they have done for the last three years or so. Ofcourse now that you are in the area aswel we must purely be their for your benefit. Veto declared open hostilities against the CVA and are thus shot at. The Establishment have been openly hostile to the CVA for along time and are thus shot at. Muffins of Mayhem are known pirates from around low sec Amarr space and are thus shot at. Executive Outcomes vessels entered CVA space and opened fire on CVA vessels and are thus shot at.
Mangold Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.09.18 22:11:00 - [128] Originally by: Svabbzor Originally by: Maggot U'K is killing more than we are losing. I am very happy about the quality of that data. Just a friendly reminder that in our killboard if you go to the campaign "UK kills"=how many we have killed and "UK losses"=how many we have lost to UK I dont understand why it appears like this just wanted to make sure you understand it also You didn't read my post did you? Post your losses or stay away from this.
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.18 22:25:00 - [129] Originally by: Verizana Originally by: ReaperOfSly I thought the idea of a ransom was that you had to pose some sort of threat to the thing being ransommed? dont act like you dont know baby. we're high enough threat for getting Ushra'Khan's backup ffs. I dont think you could be so chilled about it as you are trying to let your self seem to be in here. Don't be so condescending. Last time I checked, it was a stalemate. And since you have not demonstrated enough firepower to break the stalemate, I find it unlikely you will ever get your hands on that outpost. --------------------------------------------------------------------
Tbone Caldari Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.09.18 22:34:00 - [130] ----------------------------------------------- Finite Horizon
Helganstandt Finis Lumen Muffins of Mayhem	Posted - 2006.09.18 22:41:00 - [131] Originally by: Darius Shakor As has been said already several times the CVA and PIE were not included in defense plans. If they continue to fly around our area in this conflic that is at their own discression as one of their reps said a few pages back. And I admitted no such thing that it didn't do good I just said you picked a good day to move in. Well not you as MoM has been in 9u a grand total of 4 days. But you get the point... I hope... No, don't really get your point as you don't have one. The fact that CVA and PIE just sort of show up out of nowhere is indicative that they were called in. You need to come up with a better story, and one that makes some sense. Quote: Ohh you mean like your side hasn't done? Sure... lets all waste our time on numbers that both sides are always going to contest. Or maybe your guys can wait to claim some victory beyond the small scale when your flag flys over our outpost and not our flag. Then you need a new perception implant. The stats have been posted here. We're all using the FZN killboard, and reporting our losses too. You guys have specifically said many times that we're not posting losses, and yet you aren't posting your own stats. This tells me that you either don't have stats to prove we're not posting losses, or you're flat out lying. There's no other logical explanation. Quote: No I would rather stick with Maggots reply to someone else and say: "No, I have better things to do." If you had better things to do, why are you arguing in the first place? ________________________________
Majaraw Awalabas Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.18 22:54:00 - [132] Originally by: Helganstandt No, don't really get your point as you don't have one. The fact that CVA and PIE just sort of show up out of nowhere is indicative that they were called in. PIE and the CVA have patrolled the heathen lands, the holy lands and places inhibited by heretics for years. A pup as yourself would do well in versing yourself in history as well as seeking spiritual counsel.
mishkof Caldari Emerald Empire Muffins of Mayhem	Posted - 2006.09.18 23:20:00 - [133] Edited by: mishkof on 18/09/2006 23:23:46 I love how the word pirate is thrown around so much. Whos gate camps do we consistently break up in HED? Who shoots at whataver pod pilot isnt their lap dog? The people throwing mud should really reign in their "wannabes" before making such accusations. Just because MOM doasnt want to mine ice for 20 hours a week to get the approval of a super alliance/coalition doasnt mean we are pirates either. Sorry tried the "you mine ice 20 hours a week for us or are KOS" thing.....I like it here better.
Malena Panic Gallente Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.09.18 23:54:00 - [134] Originally by: mishkof Edited by: mishkof on 18/09/2006 23:23:46 I love how the word pirate is thrown around so much. If you object to the term, you might want to have a word with your puppet master. Originally by: Verone A loose coalition of Pirate entities numbering some 650 pilots came together to assault Ushra'Khan in a still progressing attempt to take over sovreignty of the system, and the UNITY Outpost.
mishkof Caldari Emerald Empire Muffins of Mayhem	Posted - 2006.09.18 23:58:00 - [135] Originally by: Malena Panic Originally by: mishkof Edited by: mishkof on 18/09/2006 23:23:46 I love how the word pirate is thrown around so much. If you object to the term, you might want to have a word with your puppet master. Originally by: Verone A loose coalition of Pirate entities numbering some 650 pilots came together to assault Ushra'Khan in a still progressing attempt to take over sovreignty of the system, and the UNITY Outpost. Reread my post - I have no masters, puppet or otherwise.
Helganstandt Finis Lumen Muffins of Mayhem	Posted - 2006.09.19 01:35:00 - [136] Originally by: Majaraw Awalabas Originally by: Helganstandt No, don't really get your point as you don't have one. The fact that CVA and PIE just sort of show up out of nowhere is indicative that they were called in. PIE and the CVA have patrolled the heathen lands, the holy lands and places inhibited by heretics for years. A pup as yourself would do well in versing yourself in history as well as seeking spiritual counsel. I'm sorry, if you were indeed there only to shoot heathens, you would have come in and shot everyone, not just the coalition. I didn't see you shooting UK, unless I am mistaken. If that is the case, by all eve-mail me the killmails of UK people these past few nights in 9uy, and I will conceed on that point. And I'm by no means a "pup" as you have stated. It will do you, as well as CVA well to recongize this before losing anymore Navy Issue Ravens. ________________________________
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.09.19 03:04:00 - [137] Originally by: Chode Rizoum tbh. i dont know if we will win... but we will sure as hell try VIVA ! At last a simple and honest statement amongst all the statisticians and propaganda writers. You will try and we will do everything in our power to stop you. This war will not be won on the killboards. It does not matter if we lose a hundred ships for every one of yours as long as we hold Unity. I will not make claims as for our battle effectiveness to date since they will only cause more pointless argument with the rabble amongst the enemy. Something true warriors like Captain Rizoum understand. On the matter of the slavers shooting at the pirates. The slavers have always hunted pirates as much as they have hunted us freedom fighters. Just because we share a common enemy does not make us allies. The enemy of my enemy is still my enemy. As for all our allies in the region, well that is to be expected when you understand how Providence works. There are numerous groups who live in the region and many did so long before the Ushra'Khan arrived. The Ushra'Khan never sought to conquor the region, nor to build a new Republic. The only reason for our move there was as a military base of operations against CVA space, the Amarr Empire and the Mandate. To that end we negotiated with the locals, we traded with them for basic supplies. From that a community grew. Well, I say 'we' but I was one of the locals at the time and not in the Ushra'Khan. Establishment, CCK and various other pirates were routinely raiding the area and further into ISS space. When raiders come neighbours stand together. Just as the locals had before Ushra'Khan came they band together with us now. Those groups that profit by trading with us and at the ISS bases now protect their convoys and their profits just as before. This 'alliance' that stands before you was not created for this war. It is the same as before just a hundred times more organised. Unity is a hub for that community, not just home to the Ushra'Khan. Attack it and you attack us all, as you have now found out. Unity is a beacon of freedom. Freedom from slavery and tyranny for all. For that we will give up everything because without it all else is worthless. We will pay no ransom, there will be no deals. Give up and retreat or fight us to the last man. The choice is yours. >> RECRUITING <<
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.19 03:25:00 - [138] Quote: I'm sorry, if you were indeed there only to shoot heathens, you would have come in and shot everyone, not just the coalition. I didn't see you shooting UK, unless I am mistaken. If that is the case, by all eve-mail me the killmails of UK people these past few nights in 9uy, and I will conceed on that point. And I'm by no means a "pup" as you have stated. It will do you, as well as CVA well to recongize this before losing anymore Navy Issue Ravens. PIE doesn't operate in Providence on a regular basis. We visit once in awhile, tag along on CVA random pirate sweeps occasionally, otherwise we live in Empire. In fact if you look at history PIE left the CVA to focus on the defense of the homeland leaving defense of Providence in the capable hands of the CVA. I think there have been one or two PIE pilots in Providence in recent weeks (I know I haven't been there). We are at war with the UshraKhan and have been for close to FOUR YEARS (in one form or another). We want to blast these guys into slavery and rid the Empire of the threat of terrorism. Just like we've been doing for almost FOUR YEARS. And as a UK member attested above in this thread he was shot at when seen by the CVA (and was happy to escape). So CVA is out shooting terrorists and pirates (as usual). Just like they've been doing for the last TWO YEARS in Providence and almost FOUR YEARS over all. Hmmm I see a trend here....... In other words nothing has changed except a new enemy (you) and a bizarre conspiracy theory. So I'll just say "take it from me" to make it clear NO we were not called in by UK to help and YES we will still shoot UK when we run into them and YES we will still shoot at pirates when we run into them. I hope that clears up the questions you may have. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.19 03:29:00 - [139] Originally by: Helganstandt The fact that CVA and PIE just sort of show up out of nowhere... Not been in the area long, have you?
Verone	Posted - 2006.09.19 04:05:00 - [140] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Verone It's humerous to see that the very people we fight allow our corporation to more than pay for our losses, and make a healthy profit without lifting a finger. Since the start of this battle, the ISS has personally destroyed more in isk value of your ships than was paid out to shareholders on IPOs. Claiming that the ISS shares are paying for 100% of your collective losses is incorrect, unless you meant specifically Veto. I mentioned our corporation, and our losses. You alliance is more than paying for our war. As for the rest of our allies, well... lets just say they're comfotable enough. As for the ISK value of vessels destroyed, I beleive members of our Coalition have already explained this. Once again I'm confused though, regarding the denial of CVA actions in the area. I mean, I'm aware that being a man of god like members of CVA are, means you have to be proficient in backstabbing and quoting sensless and more often than not religious babble, but backstabbing your own religion by helping your enemy? Babbling that you're "patrolling the area looking for pirates?" Really... it's laughable. You chaps are going to need to get down on those knees and do some serious grovelling to get through those golden gates when your time comes. Heathens indeed... heh. BACKSTORY AND FAN FICTION
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.19 04:11:00 - [141] Quote: "I mean, I'm aware that being a man of god like members of CVA are, means you have to be proficient in backstabbing and quoting sensless and more often than not religious babble, but backstabbing your own religion by helping your enemy? Babbling that you're "patrolling the area looking for pirates?"" Well they've been doing it in that area for over two years now. Are they supposed to stop because the gateganker coalition shows up? As for helping the enemy don't flatter yourself. These terrorists feel the wrath of Amarr on a regular basis. Just as pirates do. Who you fight matters not, your a pirate, your a target. Who UK fights matters not, they're terrorists, they're targets. By fighting UK then would CVA be helping you? Not really. Theres a clue around here somewhere......... have you got it yet? Archbishop PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.19 04:19:00 - [142] Originally by: Verone I mean, I'm aware that being a man of god like members of CVA are, means you have to be proficient in backstabbing and quoting sensless and more often than not religious babble, but backstabbing your own religion by helping your enemy? Babbling that you're "patrolling the area looking for pirates?" I dunno...just seems like a lot of boo-hooing to me, pirate. It becomes more and more apparent that you thought you could hide from justice under the guise of killing the enemies of the Empire. You were wrong. Guess it's time for the pirates to get as tough as they like to talk.
Kalianyia Caldari Finis Lumen Muffins of Mayhem	Posted - 2006.09.19 04:53:00 - [143] I love how everyone throws around the term pirates. ASCN considers anyone a pirate who isnt blue to them in Catch / Providence. They will gate camp / gank people all day long - but yet somehow this isnt considered pirating?? Then when we camp and kill people who are not blue to us - OMGZZ!!!!!!! EBIL PIRATES!!!!!!! Originally by: "Solusar" Muffins of Mayhem are known pirates from around low sec Amarr space and are thus shot at. Secondly. I just wanted to correct this story. Before MoM was even around there was some jacked up crap that happened regarding ISS. We had them set to +10, and they killed one of our guys. A pretty messed up thing to do - might I add this was done at the command of Prax Inititive headed by Lake. Anyhow so yah we got REALLY ***ed and since paying 50 mil / week to war dec ISS was a bit too much for our little corp's coffers at the time we headed down to Ordat area where there were a TON of ISS / Praxis Inititive and we began to settle the score. But since Prax / ISS were butt buddies with everyone in Ordat (including The Legion of Spoon [CVA]) everyone became hostile to us and attacked us without provocation. I might use the situation where I warped to a belt some months ago in Ordat only to find a blinking red Curse (OMG I just checked the killmail and it was you Solusar). Hmm so if you were blinking red (at least by my overview settings) that means you had illegally PIRATED* OMG!! someone and were thus flagged as a criminal. I was bored and looking for a fight so I stuck around to see if he would agro me. He indeed did attacked illegally OMGZZ PIRATE!!!. Then about 30 sec later the ceo from Legion of the spoon shows up in his CNR and also attacks me illegally. Unfortinently for them they both ended up in pods But it was a DANGGGG close fight and proops to both of them for a good well matched 2v2 (I had a friend warp to me to help support me vs the 2 CVA). They didnt moan or whine either was good spirited. But the point is that CVA attacked us FIRST and did so ILLEGALLY. Basically i dont see how you can be any more pirate than that. I dont mind being called a pirate. I've pirated plenty in my life. But when people start throwing around the whole "OMG EBIL PIRATE" sloggan when they have indeed pirated themselves then that just leaves me speechless.... -----
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.19 05:36:00 - [144] Quote: But the point is that CVA attacked us FIRST and did so ILLEGALLY. Basically i dont see how you can be any more pirate than that. I dont mind being called a pirate. I've pirated plenty in my life. But when people start throwing around the whole "OMG EBIL PIRATE" sloggan when they have indeed pirated themselves then that just leaves me speechless.... Pirates have always been targets of the CVA just ask Priory, The Short Bus Squad or any other number of pirate corps. They have a long history of running anti-Pirate patrols. Likewise they have a long history of working for the Empire to keep Providence safe for law abiding citizens. So if your pirating you get to live with the consequences. You run around with a "Pirate Coalition" and people like Verone and proudly proclaim your pirates and YES you'll probably be shot at. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE & FORUMS PIE INFORMATION CENTER
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.09.19 05:53:00 - [145] Originally by: Kalianyia ...I warped to a belt some months ago in Ordat only to find a blinking red Curse (OMG I just checked the killmail and it was you Solusar). Hmm so if you were blinking red (at least by my overview settings) that means you had illegally PIRATED OMG!!... Shooting somebody in low sec does not make you a pirate. A criminal granted but not a pirate. Pirate hunters and Bounty hunters routinely get those security hits. Defending your space against enemies or pirate raids does not make you a pirate. Attacking enemy convoys whether that is a declared enemy or not does not make you a pirate. Attacking ships purely to profit from their destruction or by pod ransom makes you a pirate. Now time for a little story. I was doing the usual around 9UY when a slaver entered the system. I would have to check the logs but it was either CVA or 1PG, it was a while ago. I started scouting for him in my 'Phoon which granted does not make the best scout but I was ratting at the time of the alert. Lo and behold I find him in a Crusader outside Unity. I know I can't get range on the intie so I do what I can to keep him interested until some fast tacklers arrive. Then a pirate that had been operating in the area drops out of warp off to the side of us in a geddon. Of course he was KoS to both me and the slaver and since we couldn't / wouldn't get in range to each other we both went for the pirate that was within both our striking distance. The pirate was making to flee just as the slaver slipped into my range so I switched fire to him. Of course both targets fled. For those dying to know the pirate came back just in time to be tackled by the inties that had come for the slaver and we popped him. The slaver kept his range until he accepted a dual from one our guys and he headed back to the Empire in his pod. That was long before Establishment war decced and long before this war. This has always been the way, just now we have a lot more pirates around than slavers and inversly because of the pirate infestation we are unable to launch our raids on the slavers so our paths rarely cross. In fact it was the Establishment doing a combat jump of their Nyx right on top of one of my Wolf packs as they headed back to base after raiding CVA space that prompted me to focus on the enemy on our doorstep before worrying about the enemy twelve jumps away. Now this has been made as crystal clear as we can make it from both sides. You should be getting it by now which would suggest this is a poor attempt to garner more support for your invasion. The problem is that if you pick any group in Providence there is at least one member of your coalition that has attacked them. If you don't like people shooting you, stop attacking them. For instance NOS is an ally to CVA. A bunch of your guys went down to NOS space and attacked a bunch of them last week. You really can't be suprised if NOS or CVA come after you for revenge can you? I cannot think of a single group in Providence that does not have it's own reasons for shooting at this pirate alliance. Change the track, we've heard it enough already. >> RECRUITING <<
Gunsnroses Hmmzor. Muffins of Mayhem	Posted - 2006.09.19 06:19:00 - [146] Originally by: Maggot Ben, If you wanted to keep killboards out of it maybe your leaders should have avoided making such insane claims in the first place. U'K is killing more than we are losing. I am very happy about the quality of that data. Originally by: Lord Spidey however; at the end of the day our unorganized band...many of whom have never engaged in an operation of this magnitude are STILL HERE. Well done Muffin's you have been here four whole days now. Stick in there! Whoever the "mastermind" is behind all this they have seriously screwed up and should be shot. Who are you going to drag into this affair next? Who are you going to hire next to save face? Its becoming embarassing. Hmmm, my orginal post ethier was never posted, or i dunno disapeared. But...... Maggot, as you know, we've had business dealings in the past, i had respect for you. But you have stripped all of that respect away. We have hired NOONE to assit us in the siege of Unity station. While on the other hand you have hired Smash alliance, not once, But TWICE. Exactly who is trying to save face? and spread lies? We've been there for more then 4 days, and we've just now moved the majority of our fleet to the combat zone. I will state what others in our group have stated. We may not take the outpost, but we will fight untill we have nothing left to fight with. Oh, and PS. Ascn/ISS = pirastes. ISS attacked our members in low sec space, we returned fire, and have since dealt billions in damages to iss. Opps? Silly "neutral" iss pirates
Kalianyia Caldari Finis Lumen Muffins of Mayhem	Posted - 2006.09.19 06:33:00 - [147] Telemicus Thrace - very well written post. Thanks for keeping it clean. Part of my point was to show that: 1) Finis Lumen did not attack ISS first, we were first backhanded by ISS whom we had set to +10. 2) We came to seek revenge (we had not yet moved to 0.0, so natrually the next best place to get back at ISS due to their treachery was in low sec). 3) AFAIK we did not attack any Ordat locals. We did not "pirate." We came for ISS and engaged and fought ISS. 4) After we killed quite a few of them, ISS cried for their buddies in local to kill us. 5) Ordat locals became aggressive and attacked us without provocation (meaning we did NOT attack them, they attacked us first). While it is life and I'm fine with it - thats how eve goes (Infact the more people to kill the better). I brought this up because I just wanted to point out the whole hypocracy of the situation and that ISS, CVA, etc.. are not the little golden angels that they try so hard to convince everyone that they are. As far as im concerned they opened hostilities with us. They just all joinned the bandwagon and said OMG EBIL pirates!!! And that suddenly makes everyone little angels and righteous crusaders that march forth for TRUTH and HONOR!!! Sounds like a bunch of bull**** to me. But yet somehow everyone gobbles it up.... -----
Hans Rex Gallente Federation of Traders and Miners	Posted - 2006.09.19 06:45:00 - [148] As a humble trader, I admit being at first frightened by the war for Unity Station. How was I to ply my trade in Providence in the midst of a pirate war? For a few days I stayed well clear. And then I noticed something odd. The pipe from Empire was now always empty. Gone were the gate camps of before. Why I now could sail through in an Indy on auto pilot. But what of the Unity system itself? Anywhere from 50 to 150 in local, at any given time. Well, I'll just insta to the station, and back to the gate. Hmm, no problem there. The battles must all be out in space somewhere. I want to thank UK and ISS for making the trips into Providence much more peaceful than they have been in quite awhile. Trade here is much easier than navigating the lethal HED pipe.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.09.19 07:25:00 - [149] Kalianyia, what happened between yourselves and ISS is unknown to me. I was not there at the time and I only know what you have just said on the subject. I really can't comment on it. Either way it does not change the current situation, you are working with CCK/Est/Veto/et al to bring down Unity and ISS are working with us to stop you. If you and ISS have a history and are hostile that is one reason for them help us in this fight. I know CCK and Establishment have attacked ISS in the past and that is another reason for ISS to work with us. Seeing Unity fall into the hands of Veto/Est/CCK/Ethereal Dawn/Atrocitas?/Muffins of Mayhem/et al is not in ISSs interests. Trade has flourished in the region and nobody wants to see that change. I would feel confident that ISS and anyone else within five light years would not want to see a hostile cap ship facility in place of Unity. All in all that is a lot of good reasons for ISS and a few others to help us or at least not hinder us and frankly I for one am glad for the assist. Originally by: Kalianyia ...They just all joinned the bandwagon and said OMG EBIL pirates!!! And that suddenly makes everyone little angels and righteous crusaders that march forth for TRUTH and HONOR!!! Sounds like a bunch of bull**** to me. But yet somehow everyone gobbles it up.... I don't see anyone jumping on a bandwagon. Everyone fighting this invasion has perfectly good reasons for doing so. Whether that is "We like Ushra'Khan and/or profit from having access to Unity so we do not want to see it fall" or "We don't like some or all of the invading coalition and or it is not in our interests to see Unity fall into their hands" those are perfectly valid reasons to fight. I have tried in this post to avoid calling the coalition (not to be confused with CCK) pirates and it is a bit clumsy. You may regard yourselves as Mercs and not pirates but the fact is you are working with pirates. The first raids were led by pirates. Regardless now who joins the enemy I think the shorthand 'pirate' will just stick. It's six key strokes and we all know which side we are talking about. 'Enemy' won't work for us as you are not the only enemy we face. As I recall it was Demundus who openly declared he wanted to bring anarchy to Providence and that he would not be stopping there (Thoughts on the war thread for one). By supporting them you are supporting that action. If you do not wish to be tarred with the same brush then rethink the company you keep and the causes you support. We are not fighting for honour, we are fighting for survival. >> RECRUITING <<
Helganstandt Finis Lumen Muffins of Mayhem	Posted - 2006.09.19 07:49:00 - [150] Originally by: Telemicus Thrace Kalianyia, what happened between yourselves and ISS is unknown to me. I was not there at the time and I only know what you have just said on the subject. I really can't comment on it. Either way it does not change the current situation, you are working with CCK/Est/Veto/et al to bring down Unity and ISS are working with us to stop you. ... If you and ISS have a history and are hostile that is one reason for them help us in this fight. All in all that is a lot of good reasons for ISS and a few others to help us or at least not hinder us and frankly I for one am glad for the assist. Well, as stated in a news bulletin, the reason we are contributing to this raid is to hinder what we consider to be breaches of ISS neutrality once again. If ISS had kept their nose out of this, we probably wouldn't have volunteered to help. So us being there is definitely NOT a reason for ISS to be there. It's actually the opposite. We consider their aiding of a non-neutral entity to be just that: not neutral. And we will continue to pursue ISS until they either give up their neutrality charter, or actually follow it. Originally by: Telemicus Thrace I don't see anyone jumping on a bandwagon. Everyone fighting this invasion has perfectly good reasons for doing so. Whether that is "We like Ushra'Khan and/or profit from having access to Unity so we do not want to see it fall" or "We don't like some or all of the invading coalition and or it is not in our interests to see Unity fall into their hands" those are perfectly valid reasons to fight. I have tried in this post to avoid calling the coalition (not to be confused with CCK) pirates and it is a bit clumsy. You may regard yourselves as Mercs and not pirates but the fact is you are working with pirates. The first raids were led by pirates. Regardless now who joins the enemy I think the shorthand 'pirate' will just stick. It's six key strokes and we all know which side we are talking about. 'Enemy' won't work for us as you are not the only enemy we face. As I recall it was Demundus who openly declared he wanted to bring anarchy to Providence and that he would not be stopping there (Thoughts on the war thread for one). By supporting them you are supporting that action. If you do not wish to be tarred with the same brush then rethink the company you keep and the causes you support. We are not fighting for honour, we are fighting for survival. I believe Kali was refering to the fact that ISS was using "piracy" as a reason for breaking their neutrality charter, and is doing so again. We consider this hypocritical considering the NAPs that ISS has in place with other pirate corporations. It's only a matter of how much ISS is willing to pay to those pirate corps to secure naps, and I'm sure they have some sort of cost-benefit analysis program in place to decide such things. That however isn't neutral. Also, the "evil pirate" bandwagon we speak of extends far beyond this localized conflict. Anyone who wants to justify a reason for trying to bring in help just has to shout out "pirate" and they will get supporters (though I will admit most are more full of words than actual fight). In this case, you guys were able to get ASCN, AXE, ISS, and now CVA and PIE to come join in. Whether it's a valid tactic for survival, I am not going to argue with you about. But you can't tell me it's not a bandwagon. I truly believe had some other alliance tried to take Unity, that ASCN, AXE, and ISS would have nothing to do with your conflict. Now that a group tries, of which some fly under the "pirate" flag, it's a huge problem and everyone wants to help. ________________________________

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