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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Valterra Craven
439
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Posted - 2015.02.09 00:15:28 -
[1081] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Yes, because one webbing escort makes all of that moot.
Because web frigates aren't just as gankable as any other ship?
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
No, you've spent the entire thread crying about how the NPCs don't inflict enough consequences for you.
No, what I've spent this entire thread doing is rebuffing all the bs arguments that gankers always use for every thread that exists like this. It looks like you also have a very low bar for what you deem "crying". Though I suppose that's not very surprising given how you operate.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And yet when wardec corps fight each other, or go after Code, stuff gets done, stuff gets blown up. So it clearly is possible, but not for "rebel miners" and white knights.
There is no scenario where anyone has the same economic impact on code through violence that code inflicts on others.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Because they aren't real players.
The only "fake" players are bots. And those get banned.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Nevermind that you're really looking at this the wrong way, to begin with. If you want to hurt gankers, blow up their loot or save the freighter with reps or something. You really don't even have to shoot at them yourself, they're going to die anyway thanks to facpo or Concord.
Plenty of people want to be a bounty hunter. But the bounty system is necessarily broken, that's all.
There's no way to hurt gankers that fund themselves through metagaming. Further to the point, at least code gets something out of it while someone trying to hurt, or stop codes gets almost nothing. Yeah their ships are "profitable" to gank, but again not enough to bother with. Opportunity costs exists. Providing neutral logi not only puts yourself at greater risk (you really think code won't try to put a stop that?) with ZERO rewards since its not like you get loot drops from saving a freighter.
Well given, that you've admitted that the bounty system is broken, you've admitted that there are no effective ways to dispense justice.
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Ned Thomas
Hellbound Turkeys
Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects
793
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Posted - 2015.02.09 00:26:37 -
[1082] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Only when the victim chooses to be anti-social and refuses to work with others.
So back to victim blaming again?
Well, it is the victim's fault that they allowed themselves to become a victim so.....yeah, **** the victim.
Vote Sabriz!
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Valterra Craven
439
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Posted - 2015.02.09 00:34:32 -
[1083] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:
Well, it is the victim's fault that they allowed themselves to become a victim so.....yeah, **** the victim.
I sure hope you don't feel that way about real life crime. |
Ned Thomas
Hellbound Turkeys
Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects
793
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Posted - 2015.02.09 00:46:54 -
[1084] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Ned Thomas wrote:
Well, it is the victim's fault that they allowed themselves to become a victim so.....yeah, **** the victim.
I sure hope you don't feel that way about real life crime.
Of course I do.
Does that make any more or less difference in a video game than saying "Of course I don't feel that way about [insert RL crime of choice] victims! I'm nice IRL!"? No.
Vote Sabriz!
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Valterra Craven
439
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Posted - 2015.02.09 02:46:35 -
[1085] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:
Does that make any more or less difference in a video game .
What it does is tell me what I'm dealing with.
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Ned Thomas
Hellbound Turkeys
Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects
793
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Posted - 2015.02.09 03:02:25 -
[1086] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Ned Thomas wrote:
Does that make any more or less difference in a video game .
What it does is tell me what I'm dealing with.
I am every evil thing you could ever conceive and find joy in all that you find deplorable and immoral.
That still makes no difference in regards to the mechanics of a video game.
Vote Sabriz!
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Valterra Craven
439
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Posted - 2015.02.09 04:05:29 -
[1087] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:
I am every evil thing you could ever conceive and find joy in all that you find deplorable and immoral.
No, what it tells me is that you don't care to have a conversation on even terms.
Ned Thomas wrote:
That still makes no difference in regards to the mechanics of a video game.
The mechanics of video games are ALL driven by humans. Its why things change, aka some player finds something they can abuse and do so until told to stop or the game makes that activity impossible.
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Ned Thomas
Hellbound Turkeys
Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects
793
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Posted - 2015.02.09 04:20:08 -
[1088] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:
No, what it tells me is that you don't care to have a conversation on even terms.
You're correct. I don't.
Quote:
The mechanics of video games are ALL driven by humans. Its why things change, aka some player finds something they can abuse and do so until told to stop or the game makes that activity impossible.
Every thought you have is wrong.
Vote Sabriz!
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Valterra Craven
439
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Posted - 2015.02.09 04:23:32 -
[1089] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:
Every thought you have is wrong.
*tips hat* Same to you. |
baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
14897
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Posted - 2015.02.09 04:38:48 -
[1090] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Only when the victim chooses to be anti-social and refuses to work with others.
So back to victim blaming again?
Who else is to blame for their incompetence?
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Ned Thomas
Hellbound Turkeys
Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects
793
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Posted - 2015.02.09 04:47:55 -
[1091] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Ned Thomas wrote:
Every thought you have is wrong.
*tips hat*
Thank you for admitting defeat so quickly.
Vote Sabriz!
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Valterra Craven
439
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Posted - 2015.02.09 04:59:30 -
[1092] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:
Who else is to blame for their incompetence?
Being anti-social is not incompetence. |
Valterra Craven
439
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Posted - 2015.02.09 05:01:35 -
[1093] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:
Thank you for admitting defeat so quickly.
Defeat is nothing but education. |
Ned Thomas
Hellbound Turkeys
Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects
793
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Posted - 2015.02.09 05:06:41 -
[1094] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Ned Thomas wrote:
Thank you for admitting defeat so quickly.
Defeat is nothing but education.
Ah, then I've taught you something. I'll assume you said thank you.
You're welcome.
Vote Sabriz!
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baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
14897
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Posted - 2015.02.09 05:20:30 -
[1095] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Who else is to blame for their incompetence?
Being anti-social is not incompetence.
Refusing to work with others or use any other tools however is.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9645
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Posted - 2015.02.09 06:12:55 -
[1096] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:baltec1 wrote:
Who else is to blame for their incompetence?
Being anti-social is not incompetence.
It is when you are playing an MMO that rewards having and knowing how/when to use social skills.
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Hiasa Kite
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
176
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Posted - 2015.02.09 08:11:47 -
[1097] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Hiasa Kite wrote:
If you want to dispense justice, do it in LoSec. You'll never get what you're looking for as long as CONCORD and FacPo stand in your way.
Why would a miner dispense justice to people that had nothing to do with him?
Go to LoSec and find out.
Quote:Hiasa Kite wrote:
Bounty hunting does not pay. In fact it cannot pay, not without leaving itself open to exploitation.
Then there is no way practical way for a victim to dispense justice against his attacker.
Not in HiSec, no. It was never intended to offer that kind of play.
People to vote for CSM X(in order): Sabriz Adoudel, Cagali Cagali, Steve Ronuken, Manfred Sideous, Mike Azariah, Gorski Car
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
790
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Posted - 2015.02.09 08:57:45 -
[1098] - Quote
This discussions always end in everyone versus a new alt of Ripard Teg
the Code ALWAYS wins
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
592
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Posted - 2015.02.09 09:45:41 -
[1099] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:There's no way to hurt gankers that fund themselves through metagaming. Further to the point, at least code gets something out of it while someone trying to hurt, or stop codes gets almost nothing. Yeah their ships are "profitable" to gank, but again not enough to bother with. Opportunity costs exists. Providing neutral logi not only puts yourself at greater risk (you really think code won't try to put a stop that?) with ZERO rewards since its not like you get loot drops from saving a freighter.
Well given, that you've admitted that the bounty system is broken, you've admitted that there are no effective ways to dispense justice.
There are effective ways to dispense justice, just not ones that are profitable. If you fall into the carebear trap of viewing everything in terms of ISK/hour, then no, there is no direct financial benefit for you to fight the gankers. However, this game is not always maximizing your ISK/hour or there would be no gankers as pretty much any other activity in the game pays more than ganking.
What Eve really is about is imposing your will on New Eden, using whatever game and meta-game machinations you can. That sometimes means the path towards your goal is not to continually do "push-button-receive-cookie" missions or mining in highsec, but will require you to play the long game, and perhaps interact with other players. Do you think that a wormhole corp engaging in the eviction of a competitor is directly profiting from that action? Or that the battle of B-R5RB was entered by both sides thinking they would make ISK out of the engagement?
James 315 and the New Order have claimed highsec for themselves and are engaging in a campaign of suicide ganking of haulers and miners to shape New Eden to their will. They fund their escapades through unconventional, but very much in the spirit of Eve, meta-game means. There are nullsec entities that run ganking operations in highsec to disrupt the logistics of their enemies. And other, more conventional highsec criminals operate purely for profit by carefully picking their targets. All of them do this for their own reasons in the sandbox, and while they are completely avoidable if you spend a little effort, they are also vulnerable to your efforts in opposing them if you wish.
Justice is not something that will be handed to you on a plate in New Eden. If you lose your ship to a roaming lowsec gang you do not get to push a "I demand satisfaction" button and force an honourable duel with them after the fact. Similarly, if a highsec criminal catches you with your pants down and takes your stuff, you do not have a right to free revenge. If you want it that bad, take time out from your min-maxed PvE clicking to earn it yourself, or if you can't be bothered, just change your behaviour so you are not vulnerable to gankers again. New Eden is a harsh, dark place where your safety is entirely in your hands.
Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10 is a good idea.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
16084
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Posted - 2015.02.09 10:31:33 -
[1100] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Hiasa Kite wrote:
If you want to dispense justice, do it in LoSec. You'll never get what you're looking for as long as CONCORD and FacPo stand in your way.
Why would a miner dispense justice to people that had nothing to do with him? Hiasa Kite wrote:
Bounty hunting does not pay. In fact it cannot pay, not without leaving itself open to exploitation.
Then there is no way practical way for a victim to dispense justice against his attacker.
You mean there is no cheap way.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Siegfried Cohenberg
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
37
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Posted - 2015.02.09 12:05:40 -
[1101] - Quote
yeah how many people are actually hyperdunking? serious question |
Hiasa Kite
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
177
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Posted - 2015.02.09 12:07:17 -
[1102] - Quote
Siegfried Cohenberg wrote:yeah how many people are actually hyperdunking? serious question
From what I've seen on the killboards, maybe 10-20 are involved so far.
People to vote for CSM X(in order): Sabriz Adoudel, Cagali Cagali, Steve Ronuken, Manfred Sideous, Mike Azariah, Gorski Car
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Kaarous Aldurald
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
11709
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Posted - 2015.02.09 12:41:18 -
[1103] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:
Well given, that you've admitted that the bounty system is broken, you've admitted that there are no effective ways to dispense justice.
And again with the outright lies.
There are plenty. But they are pointless if you aren't a real player.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
9648
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Posted - 2015.02.09 13:32:43 -
[1104] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:
Well given, that you've admitted that the bounty system is broken, you've admitted that there are no effective ways to dispense justice.
And again with the outright lies. There are plenty. But they are pointless if you aren't a real player.
+1
Look at the words that poster uses. "Justice" , "Victim" etc. It all reinforces my belief that when i see such postings, the problem lies in the posters general incompatibility with the kind of game EVE is rather than some glaring issue with game mechanics.
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Valterra Craven
439
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Posted - 2015.02.09 14:21:04 -
[1105] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
You mean there is no cheap way.
No, I mean there is no practical way. |
Ned Thomas
Hellbound Turkeys
Alliance of Abandoned Cybernetic Rejects
805
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Posted - 2015.02.09 14:21:48 -
[1106] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:
Well given, that you've admitted that the bounty system is broken, you've admitted that there are no effective ways to dispense justice.
And again with the outright lies. There are plenty. But they are pointless if you aren't a real player. +1 Look at the words that poster uses. "Justice" , "Victim" etc. It all reinforces my belief that when i see such postings, the problem lies in the posters general incompatibility with the kind of game EVE is rather than some glaring issue with game mechanics.
I still maintain that if all the horrible no good very bad things that people do to each other in Eve were instead done by computer controlled characters, no one would ever complain.
Vote Sabriz!
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Valterra Craven
439
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Posted - 2015.02.09 14:22:37 -
[1107] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
And again with the outright lies.
There are plenty. But they are pointless if you aren't a real player.
Well if its an outright lie, surely it would be easy for you to disprove?
But I understand how its easier to just label everyone and not make an actual argument. |
Valterra Craven
439
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Posted - 2015.02.09 14:25:04 -
[1108] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
Look at the words that poster uses. "Justice" , "Victim" etc. It all reinforces my belief that when i see such postings, the problem lies in the posters general incompatibility with the kind of game EVE is rather than some glaring issue with game mechanics.
See you should just stop, because you are very bad at this. Try to keep up.
1. Gankers used the argument that the current mechanics are balanced because miners could dispense justice if they so chose.
2. I argued that based on the current mechanics that this is not true. The terms used were proffered by you guys, not me. If you want people to stop using the words justice and victim, then stop using them yourselves.. |
Valterra Craven
439
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Posted - 2015.02.09 14:33:17 -
[1109] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:
There are effective ways to dispense justice, just not ones that are profitable. If you fall into the carebear trap of viewing everything in terms of ISK/hour, then no, there is no direct financial benefit for you to fight the gankers. However, this game is not always maximizing your ISK/hour or there would be no gankers as pretty much any other activity in the game pays more than ganking.
WOW. Double standards much. You guys have been blasting every anti ganker post in this thread saying that ganking is pretty much solely about profit. So basically what you are saying is that gankers are carebears.
Black Pedro wrote:
What Eve really is about is imposing your will on New Eden
No, what Eve is really about is imposing your will on other players.
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Valterra Craven
439
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Posted - 2015.02.09 14:34:57 -
[1110] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote: I'll assume.
Assumptions arguments do not make. |
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