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Fix for Ishtars online

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Pravius Bane Inc The Volition Cult 0	Posted - 2015.01.28 17:33:34 - [1] - Quote ishtars are a tad op... every 0.0 group uses them for obvious reasons...... limit sentry drones to battlecruiser and above... seems like a good idea.
Anhenka The Cult of Personality DARKNESS. 937	Posted - 2015.01.28 18:04:06 - [2] - Quote Pravius wrote: ishtars are a tad op... every 0.0 group uses them for obvious reasons...... limit sentry drones to battlecruiser and above... seems like a good idea. Any suggestions so that Ishtars, VNI's, and ordinary Vexors are not completely and totally **** afterwords? Or are you one of the "gut them into uselessness and let CCP never sort them out." crowd? -1 for a bare sketch of an idea, -1 for not searching to find the other 999 Ishtar threads, -1 for the "make them totally useless" suggestion. And -10 for laziness.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 822	Posted - 2015.01.28 18:09:22 - [3] - Quote I like his idea and think it's the right thing to do. +1 for nerfing the ishtar back to normal. +1 for making the risk averse 'dump and run' crowd all upset +1 for keeping the faith
Tusker Crazinski Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels 23	Posted - 2015.01.28 18:20:33 - [4] - Quote going for all crusier sized drone boats, dropping the bandwidth to 50 or 75mbit/s would be an easy fix. Is it doing spectacular sniper DPS, no. however unlike other sniper HACs it still has all the benefits to being a drone boat. like not needing to fit you're primary weapon system, and pick the right tool for the job. that or make a drone maintenance bay a fittiable mod require to rep, recharge, and have multiple flight of drones.
Nolak Ataru Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC 626	Posted - 2015.01.28 18:21:59 - [5] - Quote Anhenka wrote: Pravius wrote: ishtars are a tad op... every 0.0 group uses them for obvious reasons...... limit sentry drones to battlecruiser and above... seems like a good idea. Any suggestions so that Ishtars, VNI's, and ordinary Vexors are not completely and totally **** afterwords? Or are you one of the "gut them into uselessness and let CCP never sort them out." crowd? -1 for a bare sketch of an idea, -1 for not searching to find the other 999 Ishtar threads, -1 for the "make them totally useless" suggestion. And -10 for laziness. He's from TVC. Don't expect much from him in terms of long-term thinking. CCP already listened to people when they added the limit of drones being assisted. It's now up to you to get a doctrine that isn't "drop titans" to counter the Ishtars. Oversized ABs are there for a reason (hinthint dictors).
Iain Cariaba 972	Posted - 2015.01.28 18:46:17 - [6] - Quote So, when you've successfully nerfed Ishtars into oblivion, are you going to then beg for nerfs to whatever takes its place as the OP hull of choice? And when that hull goes the way of the drake, are you going to protest the next FOTM hull? When does it stop? I would really like an honest answer to these questions from OP. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
Lugh Crow-Slave 619	Posted - 2015.01.28 19:47:53 - [7] - Quote just make it so their bonuses only affect med drones i had thought that was the idea when they re-arranged the skills in order to make that possible Fuel block colors
Anhenka The Cult of Personality DARKNESS. 938	Posted - 2015.01.28 19:56:51 - [8] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: just make it so their bonuses only affect med drones i had thought that was the idea when they re-arranged the skills in order to make that possible Considering they never said anything of the sort, why did you think this? And does anyone think a medium drone only Ishtar would be worth anything? Would be like the gila, only squishier, and less useful, and less tanky.
Corraidhin Farsaidh Farsaidh's Freeborn 929	Posted - 2015.01.28 20:04:47 - [9] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: So, when you've successfully nerfed Ishtars into oblivion, are you going to then beg for nerfs to whatever takes its place as the OP hull of choice? And when that hull goes the way of the drake, are you going to protest the next FOTM hull? When does it stop? I would really like an honest answer to these questions from OP. That would probably be the gila as the people who hate the ishtar seem to have an issue with drones in general :D
Anhenka The Cult of Personality DARKNESS. 938	Posted - 2015.01.28 20:15:01 - [10] - Quote Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Iain Cariaba wrote: So, when you've successfully nerfed Ishtars into oblivion, are you going to then beg for nerfs to whatever takes its place as the OP hull of choice? And when that hull goes the way of the drake, are you going to protest the next FOTM hull? When does it stop? I would really like an honest answer to these questions from OP. That would probably be the gila as the people who hate the ishtar seem to have an issue with drones in general :D Impossible, Gila is so bad for most things you might as well take offense at the hurricane. Rattlesnake and Domi though will e the next choice of permawhine.

Dustpuppy New Eden Ferengi 77	Posted - 2015.01.28 20:19:25 - [11] - Quote Easy solution to counter a fleet of ishtars: use them, too. These are not titans, everyone can afford one. So do some training and join the rest.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 14709	Posted - 2015.01.28 20:23:35 - [12] - Quote Delete Sentries. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1532	Posted - 2015.01.28 20:38:53 - [13] - Quote Dustpuppy wrote: Easy solution to counter a fleet of ishtars: use them, too. These are not titans, everyone can afford one. So do some training and join the rest. You know something is stupid when the counter to it is itself...
Iain Cariaba 973	Posted - 2015.01.28 21:56:08 - [14] - Quote Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Iain Cariaba wrote: So, when you've successfully nerfed Ishtars into oblivion, are you going to then beg for nerfs to whatever takes its place as the OP hull of choice? And when that hull goes the way of the drake, are you going to protest the next FOTM hull? When does it stop? I would really like an honest answer to these questions from OP. That would probably be the gila as the people who hate the ishtar seem to have an issue with drones in general :D That was less a question on which ship is going to be next, and more of a question on when OP and his ilk are going to be done whining about ships they think are OP. As for the Gila, while it is pretty strong, it does have one glaring weakness. An arthritic tortoise tied to #50 boulder is able to outrun it. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
Pravius Bane Inc The Volition Cult 0	Posted - 2015.01.28 22:57:40 - [15] - Quote Anhenka wrote: Pravius wrote: ishtars are a tad op... every 0.0 group uses them for obvious reasons...... limit sentry drones to battlecruiser and above... seems like a good idea. Any suggestions so that Ishtars, VNI's, and ordinary Vexors are not completely and totally **** afterwords? Or are you one of the "gut them into uselessness and let CCP never sort them out." crowd? -1 for a bare sketch of an idea, -1 for not searching to find the other 999 Ishtar threads, -1 for the "make them totally useless" suggestion. And -10 for laziness. you get similar if not more dps out of ogre 2s that you get out of sentrys you just cant fight out of range of everything and nano.... thats why i suggest limiting using sentrys to bc or above leaving the ability to use heavy drones.... but i understand you dont want your flavor of the month fit getting nerfed..
Pravius Bane Inc The Volition Cult 0	Posted - 2015.01.28 23:03:12 - [16] - Quote Nolak Ataru wrote: Anhenka wrote: Pravius wrote: ishtars are a tad op... every 0.0 group uses them for obvious reasons...... limit sentry drones to battlecruiser and above... seems like a good idea. Any suggestions so that Ishtars, VNI's, and ordinary Vexors are not completely and totally **** afterwords? Or are you one of the "gut them into uselessness and let CCP never sort them out." crowd? -1 for a bare sketch of an idea, -1 for not searching to find the other 999 Ishtar threads, -1 for the "make them totally useless" suggestion. And -10 for laziness. He's from TVC. Don't expect much from him in terms of long-term thinking. CCP already listened to people when they added the limit of drones being assisted. It's now up to you to get a doctrine that isn't "drop titans" to counter the Ishtars. Oversized ABs are there for a reason (hinthint dictors). cause i have been in this alliance all of 2 months of my total 10+ years playing eve so that must be all i know........ well assisting drones was never an issue with this since you never have been able to assist sentry drones and this is only talking about removing the ability for cruiser size hulls to use them.. not even talking about lowing drone bay or bandwith.. so heavy drones are still an option..
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3170	Posted - 2015.01.28 23:07:37 - [17] - Quote Pravius wrote: well assisting drones was never an issue with this since you never have been able to assist sentry drones and this is only talking about removing the ability for cruiser size hulls to use them.. not even talking about lowing drone bay or bandwith.. so heavy drones are still an option.. Sentry assist has always been a thing. From carriers, domis, ishtars or even prophecies, it's always been there. As for the ishtar, tbh I'd start by changing the bonuses to not apply to sentries at all.
Pravius Bane Inc The Volition Cult 0	Posted - 2015.01.28 23:09:40 - [18] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Iain Cariaba wrote: So, when you've successfully nerfed Ishtars into oblivion, are you going to then beg for nerfs to whatever takes its place as the OP hull of choice? And when that hull goes the way of the drake, are you going to protest the next FOTM hull? When does it stop? I would really like an honest answer to these questions from OP. That would probably be the gila as the people who hate the ishtar seem to have an issue with drones in general :D That was less a question on which ship is going to be next, and more of a question on when OP and his ilk are going to be done whining about ships they think are OP. As for the Gila, while it is pretty strong, it does have one glaring weakness. An arthritic tortoise tied to #50 boulder is able to outrun it. and my ilk... i dont have an issue with drones in general... i have an issue with sentry drones being used by a cruiser sized hull.... i dont even have issue with the ishtar and gila type ships useing heavy drones because being a specialized drone ship and all... why fly a bs drone boat when isthars can do it.... and that is why every alliance flys ishtar fleets all the time. because its bs dps with cruiser sig and speed.
Anhenka The Cult of Personality DARKNESS. 939	Posted - 2015.01.28 23:22:48 - [19] - Quote Pravius wrote: i dont have an issue with drones in general... i have an issue with sentry drones being used by a cruiser sized hull.... i dont even have issue with the ishtar and gila type ships useing heavy drones because being a specialized drone ship and all... why fly a bs drone boat when isthars can do it.... and that is why every alliance flys ishtar fleets all the time. because its bs dps with cruiser sig and speed. Did you somehow miss the tons of Domis in recent AT's? And the main reason alliances fly Ishtars over Domis is that Ishtars are less prone to dying in the first few minutes of the fight from two bomb waves, since they are far more mobile and have lower sig radius that a Dominix. If bombers were nerfed heavily, BS fleets would be far more common, but bringing just about any large BS fleet other than rattlesnakes is basically just a "kill my entire fleet with 20 bombers" sign being waved about.
Pravius Bane Inc The Volition Cult 0	Posted - 2015.01.28 23:29:51 - [20] - Quote Anhenka wrote: Pravius wrote: i dont have an issue with drones in general... i have an issue with sentry drones being used by a cruiser sized hull.... i dont even have issue with the ishtar and gila type ships useing heavy drones because being a specialized drone ship and all... why fly a bs drone boat when isthars can do it.... and that is why every alliance flys ishtar fleets all the time. because its bs dps with cruiser sig and speed. Did you somehow miss the tons of Domis in recent AT's? And the main reason alliances fly Ishtars over Domis is that Ishtars are less prone to dying in the first few minutes of the fight from two bomb waves, since they are far more mobile and have lower sig radius that a Dominix. If bombers were nerfed heavily, BS fleets would be far more common, but bringing just about any large BS fleet other than rattlesnakes is basically just a "kill my entire fleet with 20 bombers" sign being waved about. i think thats the point isnt it..... its a cruiser hull that brings battleship dps to the field without all the drawbacks of being a battleship... and btw if they implement these changes it still will be able to with orgre 2 but will be forced to fight and closer ranges and carry differnt types of drones than just flights of sentry drones

Anhenka The Cult of Personality DARKNESS. 940	Posted - 2015.01.28 23:43:53 - [21] - Quote Pravius wrote: i think thats the point isnt it..... its a cruiser hull that brings battleship dps to the field without all the drawbacks of being a battleship... and btw if they implement these changes it still will be able to with orgre 2 but will be forced to fight and closer ranges and carry differnt types of drones than just flights of sentry drones Nobody uses heavies, because they are trash. If you were to remove sentries, still, nobody would use heavies in 99% of PvP, barring very rare brawling setups like Blasterthrons, Armageddons, or Rattlesnakes. Please note that none of these are cruiser hulls. A small, fragile, kiting ship that can only use heavies or other non sentry drones is thus, also trash. Nobody would be forced to do anything with Ishtars, because just about everything would be better than them. I would pick a T1 fit hurricane over a t2 Ogre wielding Ishtar. Heavies are just that bad.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1087	Posted - 2015.01.28 23:59:57 - [22] - Quote - replace the 10% drone damage and HP with 5% sentry and heavy drone damage - reduce dronebay to 250 this would reduce the power of heavies and sentries in dps, survivability and replacement drones, and would force a 1-1 ratio of heavies and sentries. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists. ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone/fighter assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
Anhenka The Cult of Personality DARKNESS. 940	Posted - 2015.01.29 00:08:43 - [23] - Quote Harvey James wrote: and would force a 1-1 ratio of heavies and sentries. Whut? sentries... 25 m3 space.. 25 mb bandwith. Heavies... the exact same. confused head scratch
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1087	Posted - 2015.01.29 00:11:17 - [24] - Quote Anhenka wrote: Harvey James wrote: and would force a 1-1 ratio of heavies and sentries. Whut? sentries... 25 m3 space.. 25 mb bandwith. Heavies... the exact same. confused head scratch lol .. i.e a 250 bay and no bonuses for small/medium drones would force 125 for heavies and then you have 125 left for sentries Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists. ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone/fighter assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
Zimmer Jones Aliastra Gallente Federation 89	Posted - 2015.01.29 00:17:20 - [25] - Quote Harvey James wrote: Anhenka wrote: Harvey James wrote: and would force a 1-1 ratio of heavies and sentries. Whut? sentries... 25 m3 space.. 25 mb bandwith. Heavies... the exact same. confused head scratch lol .. i.e a 250 bay and no bonuses for small/medium drones would force 125 for heavies and then you have 125 left for sentries You would have to drop the sentry bonus and give the heavies a lot more of a boost for people to use them. you drop sentries, and they start firing. drop heavies and they commute to the target.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1087	Posted - 2015.01.29 00:32:19 - [26] - Quote Zimmer Jones wrote: Harvey James wrote: Anhenka wrote: Harvey James wrote: and would force a 1-1 ratio of heavies and sentries. Whut? sentries... 25 m3 space.. 25 mb bandwith. Heavies... the exact same. confused head scratch lol .. i.e a 250 bay and no bonuses for small/medium drones would force 125 for heavies and then you have 125 left for sentries You would have to drop the sentry bonus and give the heavies a lot more of a boost for people to use them. you drop sentries, and they start firing. drop heavies and they commute to the target. have you tried using geckos on a ishtar .. they are quite nasty Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists. ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone/fighter assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please.
Anhenka The Cult of Personality DARKNESS. 940	Posted - 2015.01.29 00:33:15 - [27] - Quote Zimmer Jones wrote: Harvey James wrote: Anhenka wrote: Harvey James wrote: and would force a 1-1 ratio of heavies and sentries. Whut? sentries... 25 m3 space.. 25 mb bandwith. Heavies... the exact same. confused head scratch lol .. i.e a 250 bay and no bonuses for small/medium drones would force 125 for heavies and then you have 125 left for sentries You would have to drop the sentry bonus and give the heavies a lot more of a boost for people to use them. you drop sentries, and they start firing. drop heavies and they commute to the target. And I think we all know how effective mediocre damage that can't hit small targets, can easily get killed by weapon fire, gets wiped out by a smartbomb or two on the target ship, you lose when you have to warp off, erased by an actual bombing wave, and takes several seconds minimum to travel between targets is. Especially when used in a kiting ship that is often not anywhere near the target, so that it can prevent ships from running away. Completely useless unless it's against structures. My bad. Structures that are not POS's. They can't even do that much.
Zimmer Jones Aliastra Gallente Federation 89	Posted - 2015.01.29 00:34:24 - [28] - Quote Harvey James wrote: have you tried using geckos on a ishtar .. they are quite nasty Ah, but they're not just any heavy drone, and there is a limited supply, last I checked. If someone has BPC's, drop me a line I'd like some more.
M1k3y Koontz Aether Ventures Surely You're Joking 645	Posted - 2015.01.29 00:59:54 - [29] - Quote Dustpuppy wrote: Easy solution to counter a fleet of ishtars: use them, too. These are not titans, everyone can afford one. So do some training and join the rest. "The counter to X(n) is X(n+1)." So much for rock paper scissors. Anhenka wrote: Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Iain Cariaba wrote: So, when you've successfully nerfed Ishtars into oblivion, are you going to then beg for nerfs to whatever takes its place as the OP hull of choice? And when that hull goes the way of the drake, are you going to protest the next FOTM hull? When does it stop? I would really like an honest answer to these questions from OP. That would probably be the gila as the people who hate the ishtar seem to have an issue with drones in general :D Impossible, Gila is so bad for most things you might as well take offense at the hurricane. Rattlesnake and Domi though will e the next choice of permawhine. Rattler and Domi don't have the mobility of the Ishtar. Battleships are notoriously slow, and MJDs aren't a substitute. I'd nerf the drone bay to 250m3. Force Ishtars to make the tough choices as to what to use. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Anhenka The Cult of Personality DARKNESS. 940	Posted - 2015.01.29 01:03:49 - [30] - Quote M1k3y Koontz wrote: I'd nerf the drone bay to 250m3. Force Ishtars to make the tough choices as to what to use. While that would certainly have an effect on the use of Ishtars in large scale nullsec combat, it would do fuckall to Ishtar roaming gangs, Ishtar gangs in lowsec, Ishtar gangs in WH's, Ishtar gangs camping gates, or stations.. I might not fly Ishtars in Huge fleets as often, but I doubt such a change would significant impact how much I use them for roaming, home defense, or gatecamping.



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