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Nolak Ataru Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC 655	Posted - 2015.02.05 18:28:15 - [151] - Quote Archon Pantheon fleets: FOTM because they were OP at the time. Tracking titans and tracking dreads: OP because of game mechanics Foxcats: FOTM, later countered by new doctrines. Slippery Pete Tengus: FOTM Ishtars: FOTM, no counter yet does not make it OP.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 844	Posted - 2015.02.05 19:30:05 - [152] - Quote We can argue that back and forth all day and prove nothing to each other. I'll put it this way. Current Ishtar - @@ssy Assault Cruiser - flown by risk averse tools that prefer to drop drones and flee the scene of combat. It's the only ship in the game that can drop BS damage on the field and leave the scene while still doing BS damage. It's the only HAC that does close range high damage (think ham/blaster/autocannon/pulse) without being close range. It can do all of this while being fast and agile with high resists and a low sig radius. It has none of the current tradeoffs that any other close range high damage ship does. I'll agree, it's NOT OP it's BROKEN. I honestly can't believe I'm debating with you. The facts are so clear to so many (read up for hours). In short (and this is possible) your opinion is just plain wrong. You say no one has found a valid counter yet, well, there are a lot of smart folks playing the game and a lot of them are really really good at fittings and doctrines. You saying no one has found the counter pretty much proves my point and disproves yours. Yeah, let that sink in..... either all of eve just went prompt stupid OR you are wrong.
Nolak Ataru Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC 659	Posted - 2015.02.05 20:56:30 - [153] - Quote It is also possible that you are wrong. However, the difference between me and you is that I don't run to mommy to get them to ban every FOTM until a reasonable amount of time has passed of people trying to find a counter.
elitatwo Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team 560	Posted - 2015.02.05 22:17:56 - [154] - Quote Nolak Ataru wrote: It is also possible that you are wrong. However, the difference between me and you is that I don't run to mommy to get them to ban every FOTM until a reasonable amount of time has passed of people trying to find a counter. I don't like to be the bearer of bad news but EVE changes ten times per year now. And you should know by now that alpha is always preferred by blobbs. Some of you might remember that a big fleet back in 2005 was maybe 100 rail Megathrons vs 100 tachyon Apocalypses. Fast forward in time and you bring a 100 Ishtar gang alphaing carriers of the field regardless of piloting, positioning or target calling while Ishtar pilots farm keyboards and play diablo while that one ceptor pilot selects the next victim or 5000 very angry looking sentry-guns start to look at you funny. People will always choose the least amount of effort for 'good measure' on their keyboards. signature
Lucky Ball Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 4	Posted - 2015.02.05 22:26:58 - [155] - Quote Just a thought. It seems the main issues here are Ishtars using sentries, considered by some to be BS weapons, or at least pushing BS damage out from extended range. The counter is that heavy drones often lack utility, especially at range, so removing sentries would negate the Ishtar in many situations. So, a compromise maybe. 1. Remove sentries from Ishtar, by reclassifying them to their own group. 2. Make current sentry drones into Heavy Sentry Drones, with same stats. 3. Add in Medium Sentry Drones, playing with stats to taste and balance for range and damage. Ishtar would keep a ranged damage option, though damage would be reduced closer to current long range cruiser fire. Would also retain high damage heavy drone, with the existent issues on their deployment. Granted there are doubtless balance and implementation issues, but such can be worked through., and it does add some content.
Nolak Ataru Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC 659	Posted - 2015.02.05 22:59:13 - [156] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Nolak Ataru wrote: It is also possible that you are wrong. However, the difference between me and you is that I don't run to mommy to get them to ban every FOTM until a reasonable amount of time has passed of people trying to find a counter. I don't like to be the bearer of bad news but EVE changes ten times per year now. And you should know by now that alpha is always preferred by blobbs. Some of you might remember that a big fleet back in 2005 was maybe 100 rail Megathrons vs 100 tachyon Apocalypses. Fast forward in time and you bring a 100 Ishtar gang alphaing carriers of the field regardless of piloting, positioning or target calling while Ishtar pilots farm keyboards and play diablo while that one ceptor pilot selects the next victim or 5000 very angry looking sentry-guns start to look at you funny. People will always choose the least amount of effort for 'good measure' on their keyboards. It's not so much "least amount of effort" at times as it's "least intelligence-intensive". TMC had a wonderful article regarding the Baltec fleet and how it came about. showers to remove grime from mentioning TMC I agree that 100 Ishtars, each doing about 4k damage, should not be able to remove 1m+ ehp carriers in one cycle. CCP added a limit to drone control amount, and that put a massive hamper on sentry fleets so you don't have 500 carriers and a single Loki.
Phaade Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF 306	Posted - 2015.02.05 23:29:41 - [157] - Quote Nolak Ataru wrote: It is also possible that you are wrong. However, the difference between me and you is that I don't run to mommy to get them to ban every FOTM until a reasonable amount of time has passed of people trying to find a counter. The counter requires very particular fleet setups and incredible amounts of coordination, planning and execution. The Ishtar's just have to be Ishtar's. This is not balance. Unbelievable how proponents of Ishtars don't see this. Self serving agendas and all that.
Nolak Ataru Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC 659	Posted - 2015.02.06 00:04:59 - [158] - Quote Phaade wrote: Nolak Ataru wrote: It is also possible that you are wrong. However, the difference between me and you is that I don't run to mommy to get them to ban every FOTM until a reasonable amount of time has passed of people trying to find a counter. The counter requires very particular fleet setups and incredible amounts of coordination, planning and execution. The Ishtar's just have to be Ishtar's. This is not balance. Unbelievable how proponents of Ishtars don't see this. Self serving agendas and all that. I've never flown fleet doctrine Ishtars myself, so there's no "self serving agendas" here. If you wanna see self-serving agendas, look at the CSM. The counter requires nothing more than any turret fleet and an intelligent application of bubbles and interceptor webs.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29670	Posted - 2015.02.06 01:31:35 - [159] - Quote It's ineffective to regulate sentries by any means other than a massive damage nerf with equally massive sentry damage bonuses to specific hulls. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Anhenka The Cult of Personality DARKNESS. 993	Posted - 2015.02.06 01:42:03 - [160] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: It's ineffective to regulate sentries by any means other than a massive damage nerf with equally massive sentry damage bonuses to specific hulls. Since the issues with sentries are mainly clustered around the ships that would almost certainly get the sentry bonuses anyway, this seems rather similar to "Need to nerf sentries on the Ishar/Domi" chant with a side order of "**** all the other ships that use sentries that people are not all pissy about too"

Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29670	Posted - 2015.02.06 02:20:35 - [161] - Quote Not sure what's so ridiculous about my comment. Sentries are too effective while un-bonused. Their damage in non-sentry hulls needs to be anemic, like 50 DPS. Non-sentry hulls meaning any hull that isn't specifically intended to have good sentries. Ishtars are enjoying sentry use by virtue of being Gallente and having the bandwidth, but I think I showed a good fit example of how the Eos is liable to be just as guilty of Null-wide use. Ishtars and Eoses have heavy drone bonuses, so I assume they aren't intended to see so much action with sentries. I think damage nerfs to un-bonused sentries is the answer because touching bandwidth affects use of heavies. The main difference between sentries and heavies is reaching through forcefields, and instant turret damage. It's not crazy to say sentries are the superior drone over heavies. Sentries are too good in any ship with sufficient bandwidth, the smallest being Ishtars. It's sloppy role assignment. If Then Else failure. If bonused, Then 700 DPS Else 50 DPS ...is what the algorithm should be, instead of If 125 drone bandwidth Then 700 DPS President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Anhenka The Cult of Personality DARKNESS. 993	Posted - 2015.02.06 02:57:08 - [162] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: Not sure what's so ridiculous about my comment. Sentries are too effective while un-bonused. Their damage in non-sentry hulls needs to be anemic, like 50 DPS. Non-sentry hulls meaning any hull that isn't specifically intended to have good sentries. Ishtars are enjoying sentry use by virtue of being Gallente and having the bandwidth, but I think I showed a good fit example of how the Eos is liable to be just as guilty of Null-wide use. Ishtars and Eoses have heavy drone bonuses, so I assume they aren't intended to see so much action with sentries. I think damage nerfs to un-bonused sentries is the answer because touching bandwidth affects use of heavies. The main difference between sentries and heavies is reaching through forcefields, and instant turret damage. It's not crazy to say sentries are the superior drone over heavies. Sentries are too good in any ship with sufficient bandwidth, the smallest being Ishtars. It's sloppy role assignment. If Then Else failure. If bonused, Then 700 DPS Else 50 DPS I didn't say it was ridiculous... I don't recall actually calling it anything. I was more thinking of collateral damage to ships in the BS class that often use a few sentries to help clear frigates during PvE or as part of their DPS for POS bashing, but where sentry damage is not a significant portion of their overall DPS. As examples, Megathron, Navapoc, Raven Navy Issue, Maelstrom, TFI's, Nightmares (and others I'm too lazy to check all the bandwith on) all frequently use their 2-4 unbonused sentries to help clear small stuff in PvE, or more rarely supplemental long range damage during PvP. In none of these cases does the DPS reach more than a few hundred dps, and none of them have the damage, range, or tracking bonuses that make Ishtar/domi so powerful, but the use of sentries on them is still moderately useful in some circumstances, mainly PvE. These are not typically cases we view as abuse of sentries. But they are part of the ships power, and dropping unbonused sentry DPS to nearly nothing would have significant collateral damage to the ships that use them.
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 122	Posted - 2015.02.06 03:09:00 - [163] - Quote Been awhile so I will inject this again. Remove the ability to set drones to assist another ship. This eliminates the possibility that anyone in a sub cap ship can control more than 5 drones. It requires the (insert drones ship of choice here) pilot to stay close to the battle because they have to control their own drones. Remove the aggressive mode. This prevents the drones from attacking an un-targeted ship. This makes the (insert drones ship here) and it's weapons as susceptible to EWAR as most other ships. Besides the list of positive changes in the PvP arena these changes would have minimal affect on those who use drones for PvE activities. Yes the PvE crowd is going to complain about these changes and as a PvE player myself I will be first in line to say tough crap, sometimes we have to give because it is broken in the PvP arena. On the other side of that is you as PvP players need to give as well and in this situation that means we try things that might balance the situation but have minimal impact on the PvE side of the game like my suggestions above before we jump off into the nerfs posted here, some of which would have huge impacts on the PvE side of the game.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29670	Posted - 2015.02.06 03:20:18 - [164] - Quote Sorry Anhenka, I sensed some ridicule in your language. My mistake. It's a good point that there are ships that have moderate success with sentries, but I'm thinking they're going to need to take a hit for the sake of clearly defining ships' identities from one another. Sentries as a weapon type, paired with hulls specifically bonused to use them. Right now, sentries are too good for any ship that can use them. You don't see this universal application in other weapons like pulse lasers and missiles, etc. It's a distinct weapon type, and a lot of ships are able to double up. Donnachadh, those restrictions aren't enough. You'd still see sentries as structure bashers, from a nimble 12 Gg platform that can squeeze through wormholes C1 and above. Even if they're manually activated per hull, it's 700 DPS that chews into things without cap, ammo, or reload times (with no pressure on cargo or capacitor for the launching hull). President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Anhenka The Cult of Personality DARKNESS. 994	Posted - 2015.02.06 03:20:53 - [165] - Quote Donnachadh wrote: Been awhile so I will inject this again. Remove the ability to set drones to assist another ship. This eliminates the possibility that anyone in a sub cap ship can control more than 5 drones. It requires the (insert drones ship of choice here) pilot to stay close to the battle because they have to control their own drones. Remove the aggressive mode. This prevents the drones from attacking an un-targeted ship. This makes the (insert drones ship here) and it's weapons as susceptible to EWAR as most other ships. Besides the list of positive changes in the PvP arena these changes would have minimal affect on those who use drones for PvE activities. Yes the PvE crowd is going to complain about these changes and as a PvE player myself I will be first in line to say tough crap, sometimes we have to give because it is broken in the PvP arena. On the other side of that is you as PvP players need to give as well and in this situation that means we try things that might balance the situation but have minimal impact on the PvE side of the game like my suggestions above before we jump off into the nerfs posted here, some of which would have huge impacts on the PvE side of the game. Under most conditions, large Ishtar fleets neither assist drones to anyone (because spies + a few enemy ewar ships = damped/jammed assists), nor have them set on aggressive in order to avoid accidentally shooting at blues or ships other than the primaries. And the last time I flew Domi fleets (it's been quite a while), we were instructed to have drones on passive, and everyone targeted their drones individually because the enemy had spies in our fleet and would put a dozen damps on any person to whom we assisted as a group. So I'm not sure exactly what your proposed changes are meant to accomplish. They wouldn't meaningfully change current sentry use with Ishtars in large scale combat, and the smaller the gangs get, the less important assisting and volley damage gets. And it would kill off the use of sentry drones assigning for PvE using alts, but that's not a huge deal. Or you could change the number of assisted drones to say 15 from 50 and get most of the same effect.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29670	Posted - 2015.02.06 05:40:23 - [166] - Quote I cited identity as a reason because it's what Fozzie used to justify the Damnation's high EHP among command ships. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 123	Posted - 2015.02.06 07:49:10 - [167] - Quote Rain6637 Anhenka I understand your points, I do not believe you are correct but that is only my opinion. Before I go on based on my personal experience in low sec as well as that of 8 of my real life friends that live in nul the Ishtar / sentry combination is not OP, it is odd, it presents a unique challenge and it requires a unique response to counter it. We are few in number but there are many others posting here and on other sites that agree with us so I know we are not alone in our beliefs. Having gotten through that let me proceed. Bottom line still remains unchanged, the nerfs/changes that are being generally discussed in this topic would nerf sentry drones in general and the Ishtar and Rattlesnake specifically to a point where they would be nearly useless for many PvE activities. While the vast majority of PvP players could not give a damn about the PvE crowd as long as we all have to share common ships and fittings the needs of the PvE crowd MUST be considered equally to those of the PvP crowd until such time as it is proven by real players on TQ that further changes must be made. I have spent considerable time reading every post here as well as those on several other forums and despite your claims to the contrary the primary issues that come up repeatedly are the non-targeted damage ability, the immunity to EWAR both of which are a direct result of the aggressive mode, the abilities to assign drones to another ship or ships and then warp off or move out of range, tracking speeds and DPS output. Come to think of it the ability to assign drones to assist is also part of the immunity to EWAR that people complain about. What my proposal is is a carefully though out set of changes that tries to address as many of the PvP related issues I have seen posted as possible while having as little impact on the PvE side as possible. Will these changes be enough to bring balance? well that all depends. To those who share my experiences and thoughts the answer is they are not needed at all. To others like the two of you it is likely they will not be enough. And so we get back to my primary point. Instead of hitting an entire group of ships with a huge nerf bat, let us first take a small swing at it and then wait a bit and see how it all works out. If CCP makes my proposed changes and we are still having this conversation two months later then I will no doubt surprise the both of you as I will be lending my voice to the next logical progression in addressing these issues. Last thought for now. It has been many releases since the Ishtar re-balance the fact that CCP has only made one small adjustment to the Ishtar and nothing since gives us a few clues on what they may be thinking. A. CCP does not consider the Ishtar / sentry combo OP and no matter how much you complain it is likely that it will not see more changes. B. trying to bring the balance that you seek to the Ishtar / sentries has broken so many other ships in the game that CCP has decided to let sleeping dogs lie as the saying goes, at least for now. C. further changes to the Ishtar in specific and drones in general are a part of whatever they are working on for nul / low and they are comfortable leaving them as is for now.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29670	Posted - 2015.02.06 12:01:04 - [168] - Quote Rattlesnakes could have a rebuff to sentries to complement the sentry nerf, to preserve its role as a sentry boat. As for Fozzie and current game design, it's time he works for Riot, I think. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|
Nolak Ataru Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC 659	Posted - 2015.02.06 13:25:54 - [169] - Quote And then sentry nano snakes would be the new thing, and you'd be back here in a month complaining that they're OP and broken and CCP should nerf them because you can't 1-volley them with your megathrons and apocs even with a sig radius the size of a small moon...
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 847	Posted - 2015.02.06 14:55:16 - [170] - Quote Nolak Ataru wrote: And then sentry nano snakes would be the new thing, and you'd be back here in a month complaining that they're OP and broken and CCP should nerf them because you can't 1-volley them with your megathrons and apocs even with a sig radius the size of a small moon... After reading back on all your posts specifically. There isn't a lot of constructive anything. You're just an angy dude. Try putting some sugar and maybe even some heavy cream in your coffee, or maybe get some decaf. Your posts are 83.267% rage, 15.648% anti player input to game changes, and the rest is just "don't change nuttin" rhetoric. Needed changes: * sugar in your coffee * decaf * buckwheat honey in your tea * a touch of cinnamon on top of your pancake syrup Try these and see if the sun shines just a little bit brighter on your day. Taking sentries from Sub BS hulls will do wonders for the game. (Collateral issue) Allowing capitals to ONLY assign fighters/fighter bombers will do wonders for the game. Leaving the Dommi as a big, slow sentry wielding monster will be fine. It's BS speed provides a multitude of counters to that doctrine. These few tweeks will increase enjoyment by a lot.

Nolak Ataru Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC 660	Posted - 2015.02.06 15:11:52 - [171] - Quote Today I Learned: Advocating for sensible change instead of constant whining to mommy = angry. If you take sentries from sub-BS ships like Ishtars and Vexors, you'd better be willing to give them a buff to their other types of drones, and you'd better believe that they will swap instantly to those types. Gilas + Hammerheads already do 800+ DPS and can push 100k EHP, imagine if that becomes more mainstream.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 848	Posted - 2015.02.06 15:47:47 - [172] - Quote Nolak Ataru wrote: Today I Learned: Advocating for sensible change instead of constant whining to mommy = angry. If you take sentries from sub-BS ships like Ishtars and Vexors, you'd better be willing to give them a buff to their other types of drones, and you'd better believe that they will swap instantly to those types. Gilas + Hammerheads already do 800+ DPS and can push 100k EHP, imagine if that becomes more mainstream. The difference is you can smart bomb non sentry drones when they are putting damage on you. This is what some of us call a reasonable counter. They have to travel from one intended target to the next, so if you're piloting your ship in an intelligent manner - it actually means something. If they want to be able to apply heavy drone damage they will have to actually engage their targets with a web to allow the heavies to get on them. What I learned: you put derogatory terms on anyone who doesn't agree with you (whiner and such). I give good solutions (sugar, buckwheat honey, cinnamon and such) I'll admit.... I did call you angry, but I don't feel as though I'm out on a limb so to speak w/ that conclusion. Get a bag of skittles..... taste the rainbow.
Nolak Ataru Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC 661	Posted - 2015.02.06 15:56:49 - [173] - Quote You (tried to) patronize me and talk down to me. I'm not going to polish your boots and thank you for the kind words. You can drop bombs and smartbomb sentry drones as well. There was a recent battle where a single bombing wave obliterated an Ishtar's compliment of sentries, with a battle report on TMC with accompanying video. e: And sentry drones have a cycle time as well. Generally if you're using a drone blob against an enemy fleet, they're not spread out over the grid so travel time is negligible.
Syn Shi School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 87	Posted - 2015.02.06 15:57:51 - [174] - Quote Nolak Ataru wrote: Today I Learned: Advocating for sensible change instead of constant whining to mommy = angry. If you take sentries from sub-BS ships like Ishtars and Vexors, you'd better be willing to give them a buff to their other types of drones, and you'd better believe that they will swap instantly to those types. Gilas + Hammerheads already do 800+ DPS and can push 100k EHP, imagine if that becomes more mainstream. If the Ishtar is OP and needs a nerf I fully expect the Worm and Gila to get the same treatment.
Phaade Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF 306	Posted - 2015.02.06 16:02:10 - [175] - Quote Nolak Ataru wrote: Today I Learned: Advocating for sensible change instead of constant whining to mommy = angry. If you take sentries from sub-BS ships like Ishtars and Vexors, you'd better be willing to give them a buff to their other types of drones, and you'd better believe that they will swap instantly to those types. Gilas + Hammerheads already do 800+ DPS and can push 100k EHP, imagine if that becomes more mainstream. ....it would be more mainstream if it was more effective. You really think the Gila price tag is what stops Nullsec coalitions from using them? Or any well established group, really.
Phaade Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF 306	Posted - 2015.02.06 16:04:28 - [176] - Quote Syn Shi wrote: Nolak Ataru wrote: Today I Learned: Advocating for sensible change instead of constant whining to mommy = angry. If you take sentries from sub-BS ships like Ishtars and Vexors, you'd better be willing to give them a buff to their other types of drones, and you'd better believe that they will swap instantly to those types. Gilas + Hammerheads already do 800+ DPS and can push 100k EHP, imagine if that becomes more mainstream. If the Ishtar is OP and needs a nerf I fully expect the Worm and Gila to get the same treatment. While they might need a slight toning down, sentries are really the problem. People can deal with drones that have to fly at you much better than drones that sit there and wreck you out to 100km+. Yeah, Bouncers are just insane. 100 kilometers of friggin falloff.
Luna Arindale Ubuntu Inc. The Fourth District 50	Posted - 2015.02.06 16:12:27 - [177] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: The difference is you can smart bomb non sentry drones when they are putting damage on you. This is what some of us call a reasonable counter. They have to travel from one intended target to the next, so if you're piloting your ship in an intelligent manner - it actually means something. If they want to be able to apply heavy drone damage they will have to actually engage their targets with a web to allow the heavies to get on them. You can also bomb sentries in stealth bombers with relative ease as it would take them awhile to lock you up. You could also bomb the Ishtars themselves, as sniper ishtars are very very paper thin on tank. If you keep pressure on them and force them to keep moving, and warping you can easily counter all sniper fleets regardless of setup and ship type. While ishtars are powerful, they are no more OP than other ships of the same class, nullsec entities use them mostly because drone boats are the easiest for 'newer' players to use in PVP. I personally believe that the only problem is still drone assist, and though I don't want it nerfed anymore it is the reason most people think that sentries are OP. You rarely see a Ishtar fit for pvp trying to solo snipe with sentries, in fact you generally don't see ishtars on there own at all because that is just how you fly them. I see no problem with some ships being better suited for fleet ops like the Ishtar is, it also makes perfect sense that because of this the perfect counters are also fleet op ships. Take that as you will from someone who uses drones as their primary weapon system.
Nolak Ataru Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC 661	Posted - 2015.02.06 16:20:56 - [178] - Quote Phaade wrote: ....it would be more mainstream if it was more effective. You really think the Gila price tag is what stops Nullsec coalitions from using them? Or any well established group, really. Never said anything about price tag. I have no doubt that the instant application of sentries combined with the "ease of use" factor is what makes sentries so viable. One just needs to look at the price tag of the Foxcats and alpha TFIs to see price isn't always a concern. I merely mentioned Gilas because a WH group that uses them happened to share their fit, strategy, and reason behind their usage with me.
Syn Shi School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 87	Posted - 2015.02.06 16:21:25 - [179] - Quote Phaade wrote: Syn Shi wrote: Nolak Ataru wrote: Today I Learned: Advocating for sensible change instead of constant whining to mommy = angry. If you take sentries from sub-BS ships like Ishtars and Vexors, you'd better be willing to give them a buff to their other types of drones, and you'd better believe that they will swap instantly to those types. Gilas + Hammerheads already do 800+ DPS and can push 100k EHP, imagine if that becomes more mainstream. If the Ishtar is OP and needs a nerf I fully expect the Worm and Gila to get the same treatment. While they might need a slight toning down, sentries are really the problem. People can deal with drones that have to fly at you much better than drones that sit there and wreck you out to 100km+. Yeah, Bouncers are just insane. 100 kilometers of friggin falloff. If the Drones are at 100km + get to 151km and warp on top of the sentries and shoot them. Or better yet, fly out of their range and force the Ishtar to gather up the sentries...and when they try...warp to them. Now you are on top of the Ishtar and the sentries. Not sure why you are sitting in their optimal and expecting to win.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 29670	Posted - 2015.02.06 18:00:52 - [180] - Quote I'm not sure people understand where my motivations are. I don't have Gila hate, or anything like that. The fact is there is just 1 ship that is sitting in my hangars in null, and that is the Ishtar. in quadruples. The only intent behind my comments here is honesty. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Twitter \|-ámk.III \| Imgur \| Evening Games Club: Casino concept redefined \|



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