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why do players stay in npc corps?

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Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 6225	Posted - 2015.05.30 16:55:28 - [1291] - Quote kes88 wrote: We know players in NPC corps have a lower retention rate than players in player corps Do we? I mean we have see stats that say that players that interact stay more than players who don't, but NPC corp players do also interact, and I've seen no stats to state that NPC corp players are more likely to leave. I'd also wonder how many players in NPC corps are actually players in player corps with alts in NPC corps. If a player who is in a corp with 1 char and has 4 NPC alts who do trading and hauling leaves, that surely is a corp player leaving right? yet it would show as 4 times as much "NPC corp player leaving" as it would "player corp player leaving". The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
kes88 Swords of Persephone 99	Posted - 2015.05.30 17:11:12 - [1292] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: kes88 wrote: We know players in NPC corps have a lower retention rate than players in player corps Do we? I mean we have see stats that say that players that interact stay more than players who don't, but NPC corp players do also interact, and I've seen no stats to state that NPC corp players are more likely to leave. I'd also wonder how many players in NPC corps are actually players in player corps with alts in NPC corps. If a player who is in a corp with 1 char and has 4 NPC alts who do trading and hauling leaves, that surely is a corp player leaving right? yet it would show as 4 times as much "NPC corp player leaving" as it would "player corp player leaving". I'm not being funny, but I think they do and I think CCP have acknowledged that already. I'm not saying it's BECAUSE these new players are in NPC corps, they just don't leave the NPC corp for a player corp before they quit. And I don't think it's because they are more likely to leave if they are in an NPC corp, I think it's because they are more likely to leave because they are not in a good player corp. And to the latter, don't we lose something like 90% of new players within 30 days? So it's not so much about the composition of NPC corps and whether they are full of alts or not, it's more about the fact that the experience of being in an NPC (unless it's CAS) is not sufficiently immersive. Also, you COMPLETELY missed my point, which is why can't you have both - be in an NPC corp and a player corp? It wouldn't be hard to effect and might help the situation (although I reiterate that I have not considered the wider implications. I'm just thinking out loud). I would prefer opinions on that rather than the bothering with NPC versus player corps because that is not what I have been saying at all.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 6225	Posted - 2015.05.30 17:13:51 - [1293] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: Yuri Ostrovskoy wrote: So over the last 60 pages, why haven't we seen anyone actually offer any incentives to join thier corps? If a player corp is superior, why haven't any of you taken this opportunity to run open recruitment and show us your "better way"? Or is it because the outspoken are actually fine with npc corps, as long as they can pummel them without repercussions? We're fine with NPC corps, as long as its members can be "pummelled without repercussions" just like everyone else in EVE, instead of enjoying an unjustifiable hisec godmode** buff. But then they may as well not exist. The only benefit to an NPC corp is that you don't get wardecced by the countless griefer corps who specialise in doing nothing but shooting easy targets. To be honest this entire discussion is moot since CCP aren't going to remove NPC corps nor make them vulnerable to wardecs. If they did they'd only see a mass unsub and tens of thousands of one man corps being created. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 6225	Posted - 2015.05.30 17:19:42 - [1294] - Quote kes88 wrote: I'm not being funny, but I think they do and I think CCP have acknowledged that already. OK, link me to where that was stated. kes88 wrote: And to the latter, don't we lose something like 90% of new players within 30 days? So it's not so much about the composition of NPC corps and whether they are full of alts or not, it's more about the fact that the experience of being in an NPC (unless it's CAS) is not sufficiently immersive. I think it's a slightly longer timescale than that but yeah there's a high turnover rate for new players, but at no point did NPC corps get mentioned in that. The only observation made was that players who interact more tend to stay longer. That literally means what is sounds like, players who interact with others rather than "levelling their raven". I interact from and with NPC chars every day. kes88 wrote: Also, you COMPLETELY missed my point, which is why can't you have both - be in an NPC corp and a player corp? Why would you want to? Effectively being in an NPC corp is simply the absences of being in a player corp. If you were in a player corp you wouldn't need to be in the NPC corp. kes88 wrote: I would prefer opinions on that rather than the bothering with NPC versus player corps because that is not what I have been saying at all. But that was the basis of your reasoning. If we instead say "NPC corp players have as high a retention level as player corps" the entirety of the suggestion is rendered worthless since there's no problem for the solution being presented. So I'd say the most important part is whether or not there's actually a problem with NPC corps and player retention, which I don't believe there is. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Sibyyl Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 25260	Posted - 2015.05.30 17:39:25 - [1295] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: The only benefit to an NPC corp is that you don't get wardecced by the countless griefer corps who specialise in doing nothing but shooting easy targets. All I wanted in this thread is an honest admission that this is the case. That's all I wanted to hear, thanks! All our times have come Here but now they're gone
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 37743	Posted - 2015.05.30 17:44:53 - [1296] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: kes88 wrote: I'm not being funny, but I think they do and I think CCP have acknowledged that already. OK, link me to where that was stated. You can take a common sense approach to interpreting the information CCP have released and on a number of occasions now they have said that higher retention is associated with joining a corp. I just grabbed the quote from Rise from a few pages backl that he made in relation to CCP's inability to validate that griefing is a major cause of new players leaving: CCP Rise wrote: The strongest indicators for a new player staying with EVE are associated with social activity: joining corps, using market and contract systems, pvping, etc. Isolating players away from the actual sandbox seems very contrary to what we would like to accomplish. That was just the easiest example to grab, but it's been said multiple times now. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
kes88 Swords of Persephone 100	Posted - 2015.05.30 17:49:07 - [1297] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: kes88 wrote: I'm not being funny, but I think they do and I think CCP have acknowledged that already. OK, link me to where that was stated. kes88 wrote: And to the latter, don't we lose something like 90% of new players within 30 days? So it's not so much about the composition of NPC corps and whether they are full of alts or not, it's more about the fact that the experience of being in an NPC (unless it's CAS) is not sufficiently immersive. I think it's a slightly longer timescale than that but yeah there's a high turnover rate for new players, but at no point did NPC corps get mentioned in that. The only observation made was that players who interact more tend to stay longer. That literally means what is sounds like, players who interact with others rather than "levelling their raven". I interact from and with NPC chars every day. kes88 wrote: Also, you COMPLETELY missed my point, which is why can't you have both - be in an NPC corp and a player corp? Why would you want to? Effectively being in an NPC corp is simply the absences of being in a player corp. If you were in a player corp you wouldn't need to be in the NPC corp. kes88 wrote: I would prefer opinions on that rather than the bothering with NPC versus player corps because that is not what I have been saying at all. But that was the basis of your reasoning. If we instead say "NPC corp players have as high a retention level as player corps" the entirety of the suggestion is rendered worthless since there's no problem for the solution being presented. So I'd say the most important part is whether or not there's actually a problem with NPC corps and player retention, which I don't believe there is. I'm afraid I'm not going to go through this point by point - suffice it to say that I am basing my assumptions on points already covered in this thread. It is my own assumption that there is a link between player retention and immersion in the beginning weeks. As I understand it, newbies actually get contacted by CCP in their first month now and asked if they have any questions etc. This goes a little way towards what I am trying to say (and please forgive me the fact that I have not articulated my point well). It's that inital communication - a feeling that you are a part of eve, you exist and you can be involved - I think that's key in retaining our shiny new brethren. So basicaly, I'm backtracking a little, because I can't be arsed to google the stats and find the youtube videos - but I also don't think it's a massive assumption that that initial contact in-game - the person who advises you about why you can't mix tanks, sharing the link to the cloak-mwd trick or points you in the right direction when you say "Hey, I wanna PvP/do Industry/trade" - that's what I'm trying to get at. What I'm trying to say is I personally think there is a link between NPC corp membership and player retention because I don't think that newbies feel "part of Eve" when they are just shoved into an NPC, but I think having a big NPC available is still a good thing.
Mayhaw Morgan State War Academy Caldari State 251	Posted - 2015.05.30 18:29:19 - [1298] - Quote kes88 wrote: I also don't think it's a massive assumption that that initial contact in-game - the person who advises you about why you can't mix tanks, sharing the link to the cloak-mwd trick or points you in the right direction when you say "Hey, I wanna PvP/do Industry/trade" That happens all the time in the State War Academy. I've seen killmails with tons of different NPC corporation players and mixed PC, NPC corp groups. There is no reason to discount the social interaction that takes place in NPC corporations. The only selling point of player corporations are certain game mechanics like a variable tax rate, corp bookmarks, the ability to deploy POSes, corp contacts, etc. And, on balance, NPC corporations have some beneficial game mechanics, too, but there is no mechanical reason that a player would be more social in one versus the other. None. If you don't like to socialize, you don't like to socialize. Shoving people into a player corporation won't make them more social. It will make them isolated. Meanwhile, it will have eviscerated the CAS Combat Guild (I think that was the name.) and anything like it in any other NPC corporation. What we KNOW is that certain players want to be able to attack anyone, anywhere, at any time, whether that is good for the game or not. They think eliminating NPC corporations furthers that goal. They are leading the discussion towards that goal. I hope you know why are you following.
kes88 Swords of Persephone 100	Posted - 2015.05.30 18:55:39 - [1299] - Quote Mayhaw Morgan wrote: kes88 wrote: I also don't think it's a massive assumption that that initial contact in-game - the person who advises you about why you can't mix tanks, sharing the link to the cloak-mwd trick or points you in the right direction when you say "Hey, I wanna PvP/do Industry/trade" That happens all the time in the State War Academy. I've seen killmails with tons of different NPC corporation players and mixed PC, NPC corp groups. There is no reason to discount the social interaction that takes place in NPC corporations. The only selling point of player corporations are certain game mechanics like a variable tax rate, corp bookmarks, the ability to deploy POSes, corp contacts, etc. And, on balance, NPC corporations have some beneficial game mechanics, too, but there is no mechanical reason that a player would be more social in one versus the other. None. If you don't like to socialize, you don't like to socialize. Shoving people into a player corporation won't make them more social. It will make them isolated. Meanwhile, it will have eviscerated the CAS Combat Guild (I think that was the name.) and anything like it in any other NPC corporation. What we KNOW is that certain players want to be able to attack anyone, anywhere, at any time, whether that is good for the game or not. They think eliminating NPC corporations furthers that goal. They are leading the discussion towards that goal. I hope you know why are you following. But that's just it - I'm not discounting the role NPC corps play - I'm saying that for most new players it is insufficient to keep them here. That's why I am asking why we can't have one NPC corp membership and one player corp membership. Nobody has addressed that as being a possibility. All I seem to be getting it why am I hating on NPC corps (I'm really not) and given that I am hating on NPC corps (I'm not) why would I want to keep them. Seriously, why not have both? The greater the availability of avenues for communication, the greater the likelihood that newbies will engage, surely? The problem with being put in an NPC on starting eve is that you are one of hundreds in that corp - I absolutely loved being in CAS but I was lucky. Some people don't know where to begin and don't even speak in their corp chat. Give them lots of opportunties to ask questions - and as I said - having someone say "Hey, how you doing?" makes a difference in the overwhelming NPE. It's not the people who "don't like to socialize" who are the problem, it's the people who want to be a part of Eve but feel utterly overwhelmed and don't have the support that they need. ie want to socialize but don't even know where to begin. Am I making any sense?
Demerius Xenocratus Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 393	Posted - 2015.05.30 19:02:33 - [1300] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Only for one side. Getting blown up is content every bit as much as blowing up someone else. You're missing the point.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 13219	Posted - 2015.05.30 19:34:47 - [1301] - Quote Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Only for one side. Getting blown up is content every bit as much as blowing up someone else. You're missing the point. No, I'm really not. My dumb ass lost an Ashimmu to a corp we decced the other day just a few hours ago, and it was still content, I still had fun, and I still acknowledged their "gf" in local. That's called playing the game, and being a good sport. In other news, as mentioned before, trying to play EVE with a baby on your lap is tricky. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
kes88 Swords of Persephone 100	Posted - 2015.05.30 19:42:17 - [1302] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Only for one side. Getting blown up is content every bit as much as blowing up someone else. You're missing the point. No, I'm really not. My dumb ass lost an Ashimmu to a corp we decced the other day just a few hours ago, and it was still content, I still had fun, and I still acknowledged their "gf" in local. That's called playing the game, and being a good sport. In other news, as mentioned before, trying to play EVE with a baby on your lap is tricky. Hopefully getting the wee one stuck in at an early age, lol.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 13220	Posted - 2015.05.30 19:53:36 - [1303] - Quote kes88 wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Only for one side. Getting blown up is content every bit as much as blowing up someone else. You're missing the point. No, I'm really not. My dumb ass lost an Ashimmu to a corp we decced the other day just a few hours ago, and it was still content, I still had fun, and I still acknowledged their "gf" in local. That's called playing the game, and being a good sport. In other news, as mentioned before, trying to play EVE with a baby on your lap is tricky. Hopefully getting the wee one stuck in at an early age, lol. Ostensibly, yes, but it's mostly that the flashing images keeps him amused, and therefore not crying. My wife isn't in good health, so I take the baby a lot on my days off. My older daughter? Oh, she loves it when I play games, she yells at me to kill them harder. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Mayhaw Morgan State War Academy Caldari State 252	Posted - 2015.05.30 20:03:33 - [1304] - Quote kes88 wrote: why [can't we] have one NPC corp membership and one player corp membership . . . The greater the availability of avenues for communication, the greater the likelihood that newbies will engage, surely? . . . Give them lots of opportunties to ask questions Agreed. People have more than one identity that they wish to express. An "American" can also be a "doctor" and a "mother" or "father". Similarly, a "Caldari" can also be a "pirate" and a "recruiter" or "chief executive officer". One single channel to express that all could be stifling. On the other end, though, too many channels might disperse the impetus for socialization. One avenue or opportunity might not be enough to express a player's full potential. Too many opportunities might paralyze a player with confusion, information fatigue, and indecision. Have you visited this thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=401219&find=unread? I have only skimmed it, but it seems to address some of what we're talking about here.
Demerius Xenocratus Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 394	Posted - 2015.05.30 20:21:13 - [1305] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Only for one side. Getting blown up is content every bit as much as blowing up someone else. You're missing the point. No, I'm really not. My dumb ass lost an Ashimmu to a corp we decced the other day just a few hours ago, and it was still content, I still had fun, and I still acknowledged their "gf" in local. That's called playing the game, and being a good sport. In other news, as mentioned before, trying to play EVE with a baby on your lap is tricky. Why did you dec a corp that could shoot back? Sounds like a target selection error to me. And where were your neutral logi? If you need to lessons in highsec mercing I'd be glad to help. Lend me the services of your neutral scouts and I'll show you how it's done.
Mayhaw Morgan State War Academy Caldari State 252	Posted - 2015.05.30 20:25:48 - [1306] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: In other news, as mentioned before, trying to play EVE with a baby on your lap is tricky . . . the flashing images keeps him amused Could be why some people just mine in high sec in an NPC corporation. Have you tried Christmas lights? I find the all-blue sets to be particularly soothing but the sets with red lights might be more engaging.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 13220	Posted - 2015.05.30 21:25:25 - [1307] - Quote Demerius Xenocratus wrote: And where were your neutral logi? I don't use any, I never have. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 6228	Posted - 2015.05.30 22:43:19 - [1308] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: kes88 wrote: I'm not being funny, but I think they do and I think CCP have acknowledged that already. OK, link me to where that was stated. You can take a common sense approach to interpreting the information CCP have released and on a number of occasions now they have said that higher retention is associated with joining a corp. I just grabbed the quote from Rise from a few pages back that he made in relation to CCP's inability to validate that griefing is a major cause of new players leaving: CCP Rise wrote: The strongest indicators for a new player staying with EVE are associated with social activity: joining corps, using market and contract systems, pvping, etc. Isolating players away from the actual sandbox seems very contrary to what we would like to accomplish. That was just the easiest example to grab, but it's been said multiple times now in relation to joining a corp being an indicator of higher retention. That quote shows corps in a list of ways to be social, just like I said. That's not stating that those who join corps are retained more than those that don't, since people in NPC corps also use the market and contract systems and PvP. By "take a common sense approach" what you really mean is "make it up because that's what you want to be true". I'm sure if NPC corps were such a big hole in player retention CCP would have dealt with it long ago, so common sense tells us that NPC corps aren't all that bad. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 6228	Posted - 2015.05.30 22:49:30 - [1309] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: The only benefit to an NPC corp is that you don't get wardecced by the countless griefer corps who specialise in doing nothing but shooting easy targets. All I wanted in this thread is an honest admission that this is the case. That's all I wanted to hear, thanks! Always glad to help out The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list. Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
Dersen Lowery Drinking in Station 1593	Posted - 2015.05.30 22:57:06 - [1310] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: The only benefit to an NPC corp is that you don't get wardecced by the countless griefer corps who specialise in doing nothing but shooting easy targets. All I wanted in this thread is an honest admission that this is the case. That's all I wanted to hear, thanks! It's not completely true, though. The other benefit is an instant, free, automatic social group. The problem, as kes88 has pointed out repeatedly, is that social groups are large enough and the new players often overwhelmed enough that they end up being isolating instead of welcoming. Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. I voted in CSM X!
Demerius Xenocratus Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 394	Posted - 2015.05.31 00:23:42 - [1311] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Demerius Xenocratus wrote: And where were your neutral logi? I don't use any, I never have. Damn you guys are getting wrecked by that corp. Siegfried lost a brutix and 2 logi a few hours after the Ashimmu. Do you need some help? That kind of showing won't get you a write-up on minerbumping I'm afraid.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 13221	Posted - 2015.05.31 00:41:09 - [1312] - Quote It shouldn't even surprise me that someone like you can't figure out that fun isn't measured in isk. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Demerius Xenocratus Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 394	Posted - 2015.05.31 00:46:23 - [1313] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: It shouldn't even surprise me that someone like you can't figure out that fun isn't measured in isk. Brawling a properly fit rattlesnake is not my idea of fun. What were you thinking? Oh. You tried to eat a bait Maller.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 13221	Posted - 2015.05.31 00:52:19 - [1314] - Quote Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: It shouldn't even surprise me that someone like you can't figure out that fun isn't measured in isk. Brawling a properly fit rattlesnake is not my idea of fun. What were you thinking? Thought I could chance a moment to grab my kid, since he was crying. shrugs If it flies, it dies. I'm no exception. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 37744	Posted - 2015.05.31 02:56:40 - [1315] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: I just grabbed the quote from Rise from a few pages back that he made in relation to CCP's inability to validate that griefing is a major cause of new players leaving: CCP Rise wrote: The strongest indicators for a new player staying with EVE are associated with social activity: joining corps, using market and contract systems, pvping, etc. Isolating players away from the actual sandbox seems very contrary to what we would like to accomplish. That quote shows corps in a list of ways to be social, just like I said. That's not stating that those who join corps are retained more than those that don't, since people in NPC corps also use the market and contract systems and PvP. By "take a common sense approach" what you really mean is "make it up because that's what you want to be true". I'm sure if NPC corps were such a big hole in player retention CCP would have dealt with it long ago, so common sense tells us that NPC corps aren't all that bad. No, I don't mean make it up at all. CCP have said that joining a Corp is a strong indicator of higher retention on multiple occasions. It's one of many indicators and I don't believe they were implying that there is only one pathway to retention. People who subscribe and remain in NPC Corps as main characters are a perfect example counter to that type of suggestion. On the whole, joining a Corp is a strong indicator of a higher chance of retention. You are free to interpret that how you like, but I think most people would equate that to mean that new players that join player Corps have a higher chance of fitting into the 10% of long term retained players. All of us might want CCP to release the exact wording needed to provide the 100% proof to change our mind. Others are happy to make conclusions from the wording that CCP do use, rather than discount what they say because it isn't verbatim with what I would consider to be the only 100% version of the wording. In the end, it's just communication and that's not an exact science. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Eli Stan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 196	Posted - 2015.05.31 06:28:13 - [1316] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: CCP Punkturis wrote: However with aggression rules, there is no such spectrum of decisions. The only GÇÿchoiceGÇÖ is the binary option of either joining a corp where other players can shoot you, or simply not joining a corp with others at all. For many players, their optimal choice is therefore to avoid signing up to a corp altogether, and so they inevitably miss out on many of the meaningful social interactions that make EVE unique. In this case, different wording, but same overall message - many players that don't join a corp inevitably miss out on a lot of the meaningful social interactions that make EVE unique. So this is a conversation we (CAS people) are literally had just a short while ago with a person who has been in Scope for less than one day. Started with her asking us in our combat SIG chat how to find corp chat again. After a bit of questioning, turns out she's trying to find CAS corp chat specifically. She applied to a player corp, realized it was a mistake for her, and cancelled the application too late - she was already accepted. Two hours later, she dropped corp and was in Scope. This is a player less than two months into the game. She was very active in CAS corp chat, and misses the folks there. We pointed her towards some other SIG channels, advised her to file a support ticket requesting to be put back into CAS, cross fingers and hope for the best. (And some contingency plans if the petition was denied.) She expressed appreciation for how we help each other out, and logged off. I'm not trying to present this as anything but a single anecdotal incident - just thought it was an interesting anecdote related to the subject at hand. I hadn't read CCP Punkturis's devblog on friendly fire before. I'm now disappointed that she associates not joining a player corp with missing out on many meaningful social interactions for many players. "Inevitably" no less! So inaccurate...
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 37746	Posted - 2015.05.31 07:01:37 - [1317] - Quote Eli Stan wrote: I hadn't read CCP Punkturis's devblog on friendly fire before. I'm now disappointed that she associates not joining a player corp with missing out on many meaningful social interactions for many players. "Inevitably" no less! So inaccurate... These aren't legal documents, they are just casual conversations in devblogs, the forum and presentations. I'm sure she could have written something different without that word and still had the same overall meaning to her message. So I don't think the exact wording is all that critical except in posts like official rulings and policy. Player corps aren't the ideal choice for everyone. They are one of the factors that lead to higher retention of new players on the whole. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Aza Ebanu Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic 73	Posted - 2015.05.31 07:17:08 - [1318] - Quote xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: war decs are not there to harass new players. war decs would exist even if they where not a mechanic in the game, i know many games that don't have a war dec mechanic but that doesn't stop one group attacking another. you remove war decs and you remove an important part of the game, conflict, which drives EVE. high sec wars as also an important way for players to enter small scale PVP that's not to take away from some high sec wars which are just as much fun as low of null sec combat, some would say even better. each to their own i say from what you've just said i can only assume that you'd like an area where no one can shoot at you while you mine and mission. that's never going to happen, what makes you think it would is beyond me, we can never have an area where you can reap rewards without risk. no matter where you are in EVE when you undock from a station you consent to combat. the quicker a new player gets used to this the better. because that's how it is in EVE. if any player refuses to accept that then it's best you stay docked when you get a war dec So they don't add anything to the game like I said. Null corps don't hang out in high sec, and have to go through low sec anyways, so no real reason to chase a nullbear into high sec, when you can effectively stop operations by battle in null/low sec. Like you said conflict would happen without it. What the heck is wrong with you? You can do small scale PVP anywhere. Small scale PVP in high sec? The OP is about getting new players into larger scale activities, maybe even PVP like on the commercials, not small scale PVP . That is the silliest excuse for picking on new players I have ever heard. Besides, I remember a game without war decs. It also had small scale PVP. I wouldn't mind new players having an area where they can do stuff where people don't have the free range of null sec to kill them while they do mining and PVE. Why not? I've known many players who started playing the game under those conditions. The game was fine then, and those players seem fine now. What benefit does war decing a new player do? What good reason is there to war dec a high sec corp? Only thing I've heard is to attack bots, which CCP could manage on their own. And CCP should look at the risk v. reward issue you mentioned. It has been broken for a long time, and risk and reward is a perception so no one is really wrong if they argue on either side. If you have good numbers clearly showing how all riskier types of EVE activities pay off better than less riskier activities, I'd like to see them. I assume you don't have any evidence, and are regurgitating propaganda from a concept that died almost a decade ago. I really wish you could have experienced the old EVE.
March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1657	Posted - 2015.05.31 08:42:24 - [1319] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Yuri Ostrovskoy wrote: So over the last 60 pages, why haven't we seen anyone actually offer any incentives to join thier corps? For my part, I simply haven't seen anyone posting on the NPC side who I'd want to hang out with. The majority of you are only posting here to defend the racket you have going, and I wouldn't be interested in playing the game with people like that. Not sure if i would like to hang out with people from CODE. The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Mayhaw Morgan State War Academy Caldari State 253	Posted - 2015.05.31 09:28:02 - [1320] - Quote CCP Punkturis wrote: With hangar access permissions, you can make choices about how much you wish to expose your corp to the risk of theft . . . However with aggression rules, there is no such spectrum of decisions [no risk or some risk or much risk]. The only GÇÿchoiceGÇÖ is the binary option of either joining a corp where other players can shoot you, or simply not joining a corp with others at all [no risk or much risk]. For many players, their optimal choice is therefore to avoid signing up to a corp altogether, and so they inevitably miss out on many of the meaningful social interactions that make EVE unique. Similarly, as a player interested in running a corp for others, you have no ability to choose the level of aggression-related risk that you want for your members. Again the optimal GÇÿchoiceGÇÖ for some becomes running a corp containing only alts, or just staying in an NPC corp. Or in other words . . . Quote: Some corp mechanics allow players to limit their risks. Corp-member-on-corp-member aggression does not allow for limiting risk. We're going to change it. Then, players who prefer more limited risk of corp-member-on-corp-member aggression will want to join corps more. With more options, these players will (inevitably) have more opportunities for social interactions. So, having two options for social interaction leads to more social interaction than only having one option . . . wow! Wuuuuuut?! The quote doesn't say they want to discourage NPC corp membership. Nor does it really say they want to encourage player corp membership. What it says is that player corp membership isn't really an option for many players because they won't risk getting AWOXed by their corpmates, and that the change CCP is making to corporation mechanics will give such players the option to join a player corporation, albeit with friendly-fire DISABLED, but thusly still increasing their potential for social interaction by giving them an alternative to NPC corporation membership. Compare: "Hiking is fun. Swimming is fun. Bob won't swim with sharks in the pool. We'll let sharks be taken out of the pool. Bob will be able to have more fun." "Hiking is fun. Swimming is more fun. Bob likes to hike. We should break Bob's legs and throw Bob in the pool." See the difference?

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