People should not have automatic immunity to a combat mechanism when they are in space. Wardec immunity for NPC corps should be removed. Decc dodging should be removed. The fact that you're arguing someone gets "jollies" is a strawman. Please don't put words in our mouth, or associate emotions or motivations that we actually haven't explicitly stated.

Non-consensual PVP is an essential part of the game. Whether or not a group of players don't want to PVP or are terrible at PVP is beside the point. It's fine if you don't believe that and we can chalk it up to a disagreement. I'm not sure why my or anyone else's "jollies" enters the discussion.

[quote=Aza Ebanu]

Non-consensual PVP is an essential part of the game.

Im trying to make ccp money here. They have data that shows people that stay in npc corps quit more often. They said corp ceos dont like recruiting noobs cuz of fear of awox, do you believe this is the main reason?

I believe people stay in npc corps (and therefor quit more often) to evade wars.

Are wars the most dangerous aspect to retention (players staying in npc corps) and therefore should be nerfed to increase player corp levels and retention?

Nerf wars to save the noobs and make people join player corps to increase retention and ccps wallet?

People should not have automatic immunity to a combat mechanism when they are in space. Wardec immunity for NPC corps should be removed. Decc dodging should be removed. The fact that you're arguing someone gets "jollies" is a strawman. Please don't put words in our mouth, or associate emotions or motivations that we actually haven't explicitly stated.

Non-consensual PVP is an essential part of the game. Whether or not a group of players don't want to PVP or are terrible at PVP is beside the point. It's fine if you don't believe that and we can chalk it up to a disagreement. I'm not sure why my or anyone else's "jollies" enters the discussion.

Okay let me put this NPC wardec idea to bed. According to lore, you belong to a racial empire corp. This corp is sponsored by the faction, but is not an element of the faction's military. If you go to war with that corp, you are declaring war on that corp's empire. All ships and corps friendly to that NPC corp will defend itself. Therefore, unless you are willing to go up against a bunch of NPCs supporting those capsuleers, you better leave that corp alone. Last but not least, the war dec is an agreement with concord, so they really wouldn't want the empires to fight or be drawn into war with capsuleers or each other.


TL;DR:
NPC corps are relatively neutral organizations of the four empires. Wardeccing an NPC corp is wardeccing an empire faction.

People should not have automatic immunity to a combat mechanism when they are in space. Wardec immunity for NPC corps should be removed. Decc dodging should be removed. The fact that you're arguing someone gets "jollies" is a strawman. Please don't put words in our mouth, or associate emotions or motivations that we actually haven't explicitly stated.

Non-consensual PVP is an essential part of the game. Whether or not a group of players don't want to PVP or are terrible at PVP is beside the point. It's fine if you don't believe that and we can chalk it up to a disagreement. I'm not sure why my or anyone else's "jollies" enters the discussion.

"Mud wrestling with pigs don't work, because the pigs love it."

Having facpo? aggress you for wardeccing NPC corps is acceptable. So on those terms you agree with deleting wardec immunity from the game?

A bit more precision please, in non-highsec everybody can shoot everybody without noticeable consequences. In a highsec war only the involved corps can initially shoot each other without Concord involvement, which is a huge difference.

Players exist within a universe where the actions of other have consequences to them but no it is not essential that everyone be taking the same risks for the same rewards. It is for the players to decide what will be out of their depth and if you had no shallow end then there would be no good or bad decision.

And that in my opinion is what Eve is all about.

A bit more precision please, in non-highsec everybody can shoot everybody without noticeable consequences. In a highsec war only the involved corps can initially shoot each other without Concord involvement, which is a huge difference.

Personally I'm all against arranged fights, and wardecs are from that kind. If they wouldn't be needed today to attack corp structures in highsec, I would like to see them scrapped and replaced by a more implicit way of initiation a fight by just shooting. Shoot first, talk later - this is EvE.

We are talking about EVE, a non-consensual PVP spaceship game. We shouldn't provide a shallow end for a 5-year old player, just like we don't let 30-year olds stay in Kindergarten. I'm perfectly fine with rookies enjoying wardec immunity for a reasonable period of time. Why does a 5-year old player need this coddling?

If you wanted the shallow end hottub experience, isn't that what station spinning is for?

NPC corps are relatively neutral organizations of the four empires. Wardeccing an NPC corp is wardeccing an empire faction.

My point was that each player has a choice , you chose your path they chose theirs , is it ok to then moan that theirs is too good ?




They aren't , every activity in Eve has consequences on other players.

Do you don your cheerleading outfit and heels and run shrieking into the woods at night?
Or do you strap on your hockey mask and grab your favorite machete for your moonlit walk through the forest?

There is a 3rd option; you don your cheerleading outfit and hockey mask, grab your machete; then make someone having a moonlit walk through the forest run off shrieking.

I enjoy NPC corps and EVE is better for it. I am just saying wardeccing an NPC corp should bring consequences. If a capsuleer thinks he is bad enough to take on the whole Federation Navy to attempt at those capsuleers, why not let him?

Lollipop Chainsaw much?

Many players are already at war with the Federation Navy and many NPC corporations support missions against faction navy. It feels like there are a few loose ends with this scenario and their exemption from wardec is one of them.

Many of the points against allowing them to be wardeced are valid but that exemption does allow for some manipulation that is questionable.

I couldn't support an argument that existing players don't already have enough advantages over new ones in any way shape or form.

But they aren't new players, a lot of experienced players put their characters in NPC corps for precisely that imunity. Doing the dirty work for their Alt ect.. There are issues with that.

My only issues with NPC corps are that players can roam around in low without having to face the consequences of a war dec.
You also have players that use NPC alts to run trade and/or supplies.

This is the point of a suggestion I made several pages back.

1) NPC corp players are not allowed in low sec.
2) NPC corp players are not allowed to leave faction territory.

What's the point of this?

1) No more low sec roams that have no potential fallback in high sec.
2) No more NPC corp cross faction trading. This is basically just isk, free of risks, for players to fund their low/null characters.
3) Casual players rarely leave faction territory anyway, so they're not effected.
4) If you leave a player corp, you're automatically ejected into an NPC corp based on the faction territory you're in.
(would have to find out how this would work for null/low players that quit player corps.)

Need a lore basis for this?
Well, you're in an NPC corp..
Just simply say that these corps restrict travel for the safety of their members.
Consider it a Pilot's ID that gives access to gates... If you are in an NPC corp, your ID has restricted access.

No Joe, we need more ways for NPC Corpies to get blown up, and more reasons for them to undock and have fun.

Restricting them from dangerous areas of space is a nice way to get people to quit from boredom.

No Joe, we need more ways for NPC Corpies to get blown up, and more reasons for them to undock and have fun.

Restricting them from dangerous areas of space is a nice way to get people to quit from boredom.

even some roams through low sec.

Too many people embrace the philosophy of "Can't win, why try?" before actually discovering whether or not this is true... as such their expectations are generally met.

But most can;t win. The reason people have wardecced them is because they have been selected as a weak enough target to nearly guarantee a win. Again this all boils down to wardec mechanics rewarding most for picking the weakest targets.

I've been casually trying to find a niche in Eve. All I know is that every time I've settled into a group it's been destroyed by high sec war decs. I have no idea what the answer is. I've rarely posted on the forums and it hasn't gone well when I've decided to.

I actually found Eve through Dust. Dust is plagued by passive play in a small arena where people are acting as though there is a huge sandbox. The fear of asset loss vs the lack of proper incentives has turned the majority of players into pacifists. Over the years I've read people's comparisons to Eve yet there's nothing to do do but PvP. Eve allows people to be super casual without affecting serious players by boring them to death.

I think the trolls that war dec high sec corps are similar to people in Dust that create alts to crush noobs in the Academy (a 3 or 4 match beginner mode for new players). It serves no good purpose. If there is one that I'm not aware of its far outweighed by the negatives. You can check out the leaderboards in Dust, at the top of the leaderboard for all time kills you'll see Molon Labe. It is dead now, but it there have been a couple thousand players run through that corp. I was a founding member and a director for 2 years. I know of dozens of players who tried out Eve and just let their trial run out because of high sec war decs. They don't even know how to fit a ship and Marmite is blowing them up with strategic cruisers.

I think war decs have a place. I think they should be a thing, but there should be some strategy and more of a financial burden on declaring high sec war. I was in Manu Fortius last year. Over a hundred carebears mining, mission running and even some roams through low sec. After about a month we started getting dec'd. The first 3 didn't net a single loss, I think the 4th killed a guy in an expensive mission running ship. The 5th didn't kill anything, but largely killed the corp. 5 war decs, one kill. Yet it's a thing. It doesn't seem like there's any real choice there. Just dudes getting lulz at the expense of CCP's newest customers.

I'm headed to null with one character and to a wormhole with another. Maybe after getting a real taste of Eve I'll troll a guy complaining about high sec war decs, but I doubt it. I'll probably make fun of the people who embrace the spirit of New Eden while running off new players before they get a chance to learn what all the game offers.

This got me wondering, are killboards used as a source of intel on who the weakest are?

And if so, why don't the hi-sec corp people go on low/null roams to get a feel for combat.
In other words, get some claws.

They can be, but there's a whole range of different ways.

Maybe because they don't want to? Contrary to popular belief, there's a lot more to do in EVE than shoot people, and there are groups who want to exist to do something that isn't pew pew. If the answer is "learn to shoot people", that's effectively writing off players corps as only for people who want to shoot other people, which is pretty much an exaggeration of the problem there is now.