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Please make Tobias Warp Disruptor a T1 BPO

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Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.10.05 13:54:00 - [1] Issue: T2 ammos have extended ranges for all battleships. Ships that specialize in "midrange" like Pulse or AC fitted ships have no way to scramble ships while using thier midrange advantage. Tobias Warp Disruptor Stats Enter the Tobias Warp Disruptor. The fitting requirements means that it can't feasibly be fit on anything under a battleship. And even there, it would be hard to fit it. Tobias Stats: CPU: 19tf GRID: 4,000MW SCRAMBLE STRENGTH: 2 Most fights happen within 20km as that is the jump in radius of a gate and max scramble range. This addition allows a Midrange BS to at least have the option of fighting from thier advantage point, an option they dont have now without a dedicated tackler. TBH I think scramble strength of 2 may be too much when considering the bonus of the Lachesis. Dropping the grid requirements down to 2,000MW and reducing scramble strength to 1 would probably work just as well. In either case, I politely request that the Lachesis be buffed up a bit when this is implemented. Let them scramble at 60km with Disruptors and 30km with Scramblers. This would help ships with a range bonus use thier range bonus, instead of forcing them to fight close range when they are not built to do so. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.10.05 13:55:00 - [2] I <3 this idea. Scrapheap Challenge Forums - All the cool kids are doing it!
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.10.05 13:55:00 - [3] Pretty much the carrier win button? RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.10.05 13:56:00 - [4] Originally by: Verus Potestas Pretty much the carrier win button? Carriers and motherships use them already. That's the point. Nyxus' point is that they should be more freely available (and more affordable) to people wanting to use midranged ships; seems like a fair idea to me. Given that only BS can fit them, and at the cost of fitting something else due to their high requirements. Scrapheap Challenge Forums - All the cool kids are doing it!
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:01:00 - [5] seems more like a pirate's wet dream so they can solo gate camp.
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:02:00 - [6] Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Verus Potestas Pretty much the carrier win button? Carriers and motherships use them already. That's the point. Nyxus' point is that they should be more freely available (and more affordable) to people wanting to use midranged ships; seems like a fair idea to me. Given that only BS can fit them, and at the cost of fitting something else due to their high requirements. Yeah, carriers already use them, at a huge price. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:03:00 - [7] I agree with this. It would make a tempest worth using again with autocannons. Well maybe not, it needs more buffs but this would help.
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:06:00 - [8] As Testy said, Carriers already use em. But lets put it in perspective: Tachyon II GRID: 4128 MW Artie II Grid: 3575 MW This scram is harder to fit that a Tachyon II, the largest BS sized weapon available. Thats why I also suggested this: Nyxus Modified Warp Disruptor CPU: 19 tf GRID: 2000 SCRAMBLE STR: 1 RANGE: 40km Still so big it has to be fit by a BS, but a bit easier to fit and still gives range. If the Lachesis got a "hidden" bonus to reduce grid needs of these scrams would be fine as well. Just don't forget them. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:32:00 - [9] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 05/10/2006 14:34:13 Arent domination disruptors already 30km ? Isn't that quite enough ? They might be expensive, but they're certainly alot easier to fit. In the mean time, teaming up with a lachesis arazu or interdictor solves your problem too. It's not like a -1 scramble strength is much these days :/ I normally fit at least -3 when I;m trying to actually tackle someting, don't you ? You see, if you allow these, any group of BS becomes a death zone for frigs again, because up close they at least can evade, but if they need to get away to 40+km before being able to run it's a different story isn't it ? Its pretty simple, medium range is ideal for gangs, long for fleets and short for solo. If you want solo, you want short, fit for it. Old blog
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:53:00 - [10] Warp jamming range need a general boost across the board. Strength 2 scramblers need to define short range (20km) Strength 1 scramblers need to define mid range (50-ish km) Could boost powergrid need of strength 1 scramblers to around 40 so that frigates can't too easily use them, considering that missile frigates with 30km scramblers are already too effective. I do think that it's time to bring scrambling out to nearly reach snipers at best. - Three years old
Assur Minmatar Stronghold corp Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:00:00 - [11] or they could just seed the T2 Scramblers and Disruptors which are in the database but have no bpo's seeded as far as I know.
Hiro Kazamatsuri	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:36:00 - [12] I would love to see modules (mainly scrambler) dedicated for long and mid range ship. Give them the same range of usability but at different distances. for instance webber usable between 10 and 20km, doesnt work under 10km. or warp disruptor working between 40 and 60km. even better at "Fitting Time" choose the range of your module between 0 and 100km would rock.
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:44:00 - [13] Bugger me, its a 40km Scram! I want one! (without the price tag please.) /signed ---------------- ...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative. Anyone Recruiting? 8m SP PvP Character looking for a new home, for a life as a pirate. Contact Via EVE-Mail.
Wizie Minmatar Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:46:00 - [14] Increasing range on scrams and disruptors will only push more ppl away from PvP. I have survived about 3 times in the last month in my autopest because I was able to mwd away from groups of ppl (who didnt have tackler support) to about 24K and warp in 10% armor. 30K scrams or 40K scrams would mean that cruisers caught inside the range of enemy BS guns.. might as well eject. BS better pray they can tank and mwd while cap injecting long enough to get to 45K to warp. BAD IDEA. the 4000grid one could be made a tech I bpo though. But only at 4000 grid. ----------------- Sig removed by some noob
Vaslav Tchitcherine Jericho Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:54:00 - [15] More variation and options in tackling and interdiction are definitely a good thing. That being said, I think this is a ridiculous suggestion. A lowslot module that boosts scram range is a good idea I read somewhere. Further incentive for people who want to engage not to fit WCS. v. jf \| won't somebody think of the pandas?
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:05:00 - [16] What do you think of the idea of making frigate, cruiser and battleship sized warp disruptors with different ranges? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:18:00 - [17] Originally by: Wizie 30K scrams or 40K scrams would mean that cruisers caught inside the range of enemy BS guns.. might as well eject. BS better pray they can tank and mwd while cap injecting long enough to get to 45K to warp. Aye this is true. But still, tempests with autos atm need domination disruptors to kill blasterthrons without ECM, or even with sometimes...
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:20:00 - [18] Originally by: Jim McGregor What do you think of the idea of making frigate, cruiser and battleship sized warp disruptors with different ranges? Good, as long as there is no silliness that a frigate scrambler doesn't work on a battleship. Otherwise, I really like the idea of different size scramblers! - Three years old
Hiro Kazamatsuri	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:21:00 - [19] Originally by: Jim McGregor What do you think of the idea of making frigate, cruiser and battleship sized warp disruptors with different ranges? Would be fine only if a scramblers cant scramble something smaller than him but still scramble something bigger. ofc, bigger scramblers would have a greater range.
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:29:00 - [20] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Jim McGregor What do you think of the idea of making frigate, cruiser and battleship sized warp disruptors with different ranges? Good, as long as there is no silliness that a frigate scrambler doesn't work on a battleship. Otherwise, I really like the idea of different size scramblers! I agree, I think there should definitely be differing sizes. They don't necessarily need more strength (although I would love that) but definitely more range. As far as people crying about frigates and cruisers, I don't think its a problem at all. Any frigate witha MWD goes at least 1 km/s, so we are talking about 30 seconds or so to be able to mwd out of scramble range. I don't see why that would be unacceptable, especially since no large or medium turret can hit a smaller ship with a decent transversal. Of course, this assumes the pilot has the smarts not to mwd in a straight line away from a battleship. Actually, seeing as how this would punish stupid pilots, and reward skilled ones I like it even better. How much of a boost would the Lachesis need to compensate for this? Personally a bonus, hidden or no, that allowed them to fit all the scrams seems good enough to me. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Wild Rho Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:31:00 - [21] Dislike the idea in general as it promotes the "bigger is better" ideal and severely reduces the role of tacklers in a group. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
Wizie Minmatar Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:33:00 - [22] Originally by: Tasty Burger Originally by: Wizie 30K scrams or 40K scrams would mean that cruisers caught inside the range of enemy BS guns.. might as well eject. BS better pray they can tank and mwd while cap injecting long enough to get to 45K to warp. Aye this is true. But still, tempests with autos atm need domination disruptors to kill blasterthrons without ECM, or even with sometimes... I honestly think that the issue with blaster/auto ships has more to do with tech II ammo (null and barrage primarily) than with scramble range. Null negates the autocannon falloff advantage (ions and above). However, I would not like to see a mod as eve-play regulating as a warp scrambler adjusted simply to counter an imbalance (IMO) between 2 ships duking it out. ----------------- Sig removed by some noob
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:38:00 - [23] Originally by: Wild Rho Dislike the idea in general as it promotes the "bigger is better" ideal and severely reduces the role of tacklers in a group. How so? Battleships really lock too slowly to take the place of tacklers in a camping situation, and the short scramrange we have now disallows for any range advantage in short range fights. I guess I don't understand how this promotes "bigger is better"? Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Wizie Minmatar Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:39:00 - [24] Originally by: Nyxus Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Jim McGregor What do you think of the idea of making frigate, cruiser and battleship sized warp disruptors with different ranges? Good, as long as there is no silliness that a frigate scrambler doesn't work on a battleship. Otherwise, I really like the idea of different size scramblers! I agree, I think there should definitely be differing sizes. They don't necessarily need more strength (although I would love that) but definitely more range. As far as people crying about frigates and cruisers, I don't think its a problem at all. Any frigate witha MWD goes at least 1 km/s, so we are talking about 30 seconds or so to be able to mwd out of scramble range. I don't see why that would be unacceptable, especially since no large or medium turret can hit a smaller ship with a decent transversal. Of course, this assumes the pilot has the smarts not to mwd in a straight line away from a battleship. Actually, seeing as how this would punish stupid pilots, and reward skilled ones I like it even better. How much of a boost would the Lachesis need to compensate for this? Personally a bonus, hidden or no, that allowed them to fit all the scrams seems good enough to me. Nyxus While your scenario might appear common, most situations of people having to run out of scrambled range occur when the person running is outnumbered. Raven with 50K scrambler. OMGWTFPWNEVERTYTHINGLIKENOWAI! Cruisers running mwd (non - Vaga) can be tracked quit well) by close range guns... manually creating spiraling orbits to finally end up out of the 40-50K scramble range of a BS, while its drones pound you, and his nos has already eaten half of your cap. YEAH I like that too.. Not. I would definitely fly my battleship.. A LOT MORE. Anyhow, the 4K grid one being a tech I BPO is fine. My issue is with Ithils idea of having a 50K scram so we can catch snipers. The issue with snipers (specially with tier 3 BS coming out)... They can fit 2-3 stabs and still do quite well at 150K. Its the non-stab ones that you can already catch most of the time who will die. In the end be forced to install more stabs. ----------------- Sig removed by some noob
Jet Collins Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:41:00 - [25] Originally by: Nyxus As Testy said, Carriers already use em. But lets put it in perspective: Tachyon II GRID: 4128 MW Artie II Grid: 3575 MW This scram is harder to fit that a Tachyon II, the largest BS sized weapon available. Thats why I also suggested this: Nyxus Modified Warp Disruptor CPU: 19 tf GRID: 2000 SCRAMBLE STR: 1 RANGE: 40km Still so big it has to be fit by a BS, but a bit easier to fit and still gives range. If the Lachesis got a "hidden" bonus to reduce grid needs of these scrams would be fine as well. Just don't forget them. Nyxus I'll agree to this would make fights more interesting and not all close range. Would also make the Minmatar webber bonuse much more usefull. They can web 60km why can't someone scrable 60km away. Jet
Wizie Minmatar Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:42:00 - [26] Originally by: Jet Collins Originally by: Nyxus As Testy said, Carriers already use em. But lets put it in perspective: Tachyon II GRID: 4128 MW Artie II Grid: 3575 MW This scram is harder to fit that a Tachyon II, the largest BS sized weapon available. Thats why I also suggested this: Nyxus Modified Warp Disruptor CPU: 19 tf GRID: 2000 SCRAMBLE STR: 1 RANGE: 40km Still so big it has to be fit by a BS, but a bit easier to fit and still gives range. If the Lachesis got a "hidden" bonus to reduce grid needs of these scrams would be fine as well. Just don't forget them. Nyxus I'll agree to this would make fights more interesting and not all close range. Would also make the Minmatar webber bonuse much more usefull. They can web 60km why can't someone scrable 60km away. Jet Maybe because they are two different things? Or are all things the same? ----------------- Sig removed by some noob
Hydrian Alante The Loot Company	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:45:00 - [27] Originally by: Jim McGregor What do you think of the idea of making frigate, cruiser and battleship sized warp disruptors with different ranges? That is exactly the same thing that I thought. A complete reowrk of the propulsion jamming and WCS stuff. Webifiers and scrambler in 3 sizes. It would make PvP much more interesting - one single frigate can¦t lockdown a Battleship anymore. you need at least multiple frigs. - same as for cruiser sized scramblers (2 cruiser to lock down a bs at least or more scrambler) - while fitting a bs sized webifier you can easily catch battleships and slow them down but on frigs It won¦t work. same goes for the other way. - WCS gets changed to 3 sizes. - The actual WCS stay in game as the small WCS. - Medium sized WCS will use almost the double of the CPU and at least 10-20 grid are fitted on cruiser/battlecruisers. - Large wcs for Battleships will take something around 100 CPU Changes like this will make ecerybody happy but they require some work from ccp. So they will never come...
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:48:00 - [28] The entire warpmechanism needs to be changed imo _________________________________________________
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:51:00 - [29] Originally by: Hydrian Alante Originally by: Jim McGregor What do you think of the idea of making frigate, cruiser and battleship sized warp disruptors with different ranges? That is exactly the same thing that I thought. A complete reowrk of the propulsion jamming and WCS stuff. Webifiers and scrambler in 3 sizes. It would make PvP much more interesting - one single frigate can¦t lockdown a Battleship anymore. you need at least multiple frigs. - same as for cruiser sized scramblers (2 cruiser to lock down a bs at least or more scrambler) - while fitting a bs sized webifier you can easily catch battleships and slow them down but on frigs It won¦t work. same goes for the other way. - WCS gets changed to 3 sizes. - The actual WCS stay in game as the small WCS. - Medium sized WCS will use almost the double of the CPU and at least 10-20 grid are fitted on cruiser/battlecruisers. - Large wcs for Battleships will take something around 100 CPU Changes like this will make ecerybody happy but they require some work from ccp. So they will never come... what a freacking crap idea...making bs pwn more and making em I WIN again. really crappy... frigs should lay on -4 points (10k 1 scram) cruiser -2 points (20k scram) bs -1 point (40 k scram) offcourse with the fitting that suits there size...You can actually keep the lachesis current bonus because it will scram -2 from 40 k out with maxed skills. looks fine to me _________________________________________________
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:53:00 - [30] Originally by: Hydrian Alante Changes like this will make ecerybody happy but they require some work from ccp. So they will never come... Ah. Perhaps it is sufficient to say that the idea that you'd need more than one frigate to scramble a battleship, and then voicing that idea, is a sure fire way of getting flamed. By a lot of people. I believe the general idea, and most of all need for the game, is that a frigate scrambler is equally efficient against a shuttle as against a dreadnought (to chose the two extremes). A frigate's main role is to tackle, what ever Maya Rkell say about this, although they can be used for other things. The important thing is that they remain very, very, effective in tackling. As the game stands right now, getting one single frigate in close enough is enough pain, getting more would be nearly impossible. And as the game stands now you almost need more than one frigate as it is. - Three years old
xlop Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:05:00 - [31] indeed 40km BS scramblers would be very nice. but at 4k grid almost no ship bar the tempest will be able to fit it idea i like, current stas nop -- Imperial College London FTW --
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:17:00 - [32] I actually like the idea of midrange, and only midranged scramblers. Someone else in the thread mentioned that - battleship class scramblers which only work from 20-40k. Any closer and theyre just non-functional.
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:17:00 - [33] Originally by: xlop indeed 40km BS scramblers would be very nice. but at 4k grid almost no ship bar the tempest will be able to fit it idea i like, current stas nop Agree that 4k grid is a bit much. Tobias does have a -2 to scramble strength though. 2k MW for a 40km, -1 scram is more reasonable for all ships. It would be the equivalent to fitting another large armor rep to your ship, which is pretty hard for any racial BS to do. Still limits it to BS as well. And while I personally agree with many that the whole scramble system could use some work, tbh I am not willing to wait that long. Tobias Disruptor is already ingame, has been for a VERY long time and it would be an easy adjustment for CCP to make. Thats why I suggested it. Please keep the thread on track discussing Tobias Dis or the proposed 2000 MW, 40km, -1 scram pros and cons. If you want to completely rework the system you should start another thread and we can hash it out there. Thanks! Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
ARMARINE	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:20:00 - [34] i say no to the sized warp scrammers. i think it would pull away from the required teamwork of taking down large targets. just my 2 cents not trying to start any flaming or make some one mad.
Izo Azlion Veto.	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:25:00 - [35] Originally by: Ithildin Warp jamming range need a general boost across the board. Strength 2 scramblers need to define short range (20km) Strength 1 scramblers need to define mid range (50-ish km) Could boost powergrid need of strength 1 scramblers to around 40 so that frigates can't too easily use them, considering that missile frigates with 30km scramblers are already too effective. I do think that it's time to bring scrambling out to nearly reach snipers at best. So what about retreating blaster boats? If we're not already webbed, its sometimes a struggle to make the 20km needed to warp out, if you've made the call early enough to get out in the first place. Bad idea, maybe a few KM more, but not 20km 2 points and 50km 1 point... Warp into a belt and instantly scramble? Boo. Izo Azlion. ---
Randay 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:42:00 - [36] Randay's modified Parellel Weapons Navagation Array Generation Extron cpu: 1 powergrid: 1 activation cost : 1 duration: 10 years range: 250 km scramble strength: 11,000,000,000 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Originally by: Reddari Now just be nice before I start to make life for the BOB devs (yes you have some) harder by exposing their player characters.
Dahak2150	Posted - 2006.10.05 20:13:00 - [37] It would really be nice for those ships that mount "mid-range weapons" to be able to actually use that mid-range power, without having to pay out the ass for an uninsurable part of the ship that will cost many times the ship itself. ---------- My sig is boring.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.05 20:25:00 - [38] the reason blaster boat is king in many 1vs1 situations is that, especially with large blasters and tech2 ammo, the blaster boat can do almost full damage out to 20km. A mid range BS, like say a geddon, or an AC tempest, cannot compete because they have to come into 20km to hold the mega, and are less likely to have a MWD anyway. Biggest problem with this situation tho is the EVE is NOT balanced with 1vs1s in mind. Still, a BS fitted scram that only works on BS size targets would be an interesting addition to the game. That way a geddon, if it has a MWD fitted and can keep range, can do more than force a Mega to warp out. If no MWD, Mega can still close range and likely win, and in either case, if Mega warps in and lands about 20km or less from geddon, geddon loses more often then not. At least give mid range BSes a tactic that they can use if they are setup properly and take proper precautions (sitting at warp in point ftl) Originally by: Tuxford Yes we don't play on our main accounts simply because you would lose all respect for us
Dixon Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.05 20:46:00 - [39] Originally by: Randay Randay's modified Parellel Weapons Navagation Array Generation Extron cpu: 1 powergrid: 1 activation cost : 1 duration: 10 years range: 250 km scramble strength: 11,000,000,000 I had one of those... trashed it when I couldn't scram Ginger Magician with it. BTW: I agree with the smart people who want to have more scram range - - - - - - I have no strong feelings one way or the other...
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.06 03:00:00 - [40] Or maybe it's T2 ammo that's broken? Barrage S doing as much raw damage as EMP S? So broken... etc "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14)
Shanid	Posted - 2006.10.06 04:06:00 - [41] LOL!!! hmm bs with 50km scram...hey how about this...lets just take intys/frig out of the game and make the bs the ONE ship...
Aeaus Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.10.06 04:30:00 - [42] You know, Amarr do have the lowest starting intelligence... Join Tharsis! - Get Sexy Sigs
Wild Rho Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.06 07:34:00 - [43] Edited by: Wild Rho on 06/10/2006 07:36:38 Originally by: Nyxus Originally by: Wild Rho Dislike the idea in general as it promotes the "bigger is better" ideal and severely reduces the role of tacklers in a group. How so? Battleships really lock too slowly to take the place of tacklers in a camping situation, and the short scramrange we have now disallows for any range advantage in short range fights. I guess I don't understand how this promotes "bigger is better"? Nyxus It's far from uncommon for battleships to run multiple sensor boosters during a gate camp giving them near insta locking abilities on anything larger than a frigate. With this ability to warp scramble for 2 points at a longer range the battleship will replace the frigate in it's tackling role except in a few specific circumstances. While the battleship may certainly not be as agile as a frigate it has the benefits of... - More mid slots meaning more points. - More points at double the range. - Much greater durability and room for specialised setups (from having more slots to work with). - The ability to tackle with a large number of points outside of Nos and standard webbing range. - Harder to target jam and with the room to fit ECCM to further reduce target jamming abilities. Overall it has too many advantages and far fewer risks associated with normal tackling work to keep it balanced and while it doesn't remove the frigates niche role it heavily reduces it. Again promoting the "bigger is better" mentality. EDIT: Personally I think the overall scrambling ranges are good. They each have the risks/costs and benefits that force you to make some careful choices and to use your brain. The only real problem is the overly common use of warp core stabs on combat setups these days, but that issue is getting addressed least I heard so it comes down to being patient and seeing what happens. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
JoCool Caldari Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.10.06 09:41:00 - [44] I have a Tobias Warp Disruptor. It is quite hard to fit and, unless alone, not worth fitting, especially in Caldari ships it is quite hard to use - you need to sacrifice your Heavy Nosferatus for it. The item looks balanced. So many times I have thought about how much better PVP was if this was a t1 item (even if at -1 scramble strength). A battleship using one of these items faces some serious fitting troubles and a lot of capacitor abuse, which make your ship weaker than pilots not using these disruptors. CCP, you might want to consider to do it. _______________________________________________________________________ Trey Azagthoth > Youre my idol Jocool. I wanna be like Jocool jr. or Jocool the sequel! Oveur > ohnoes jocool
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.06 09:44:00 - [45] Get a friend in a tackler gawd damnet. it is a MULTIPLAYER GAME and no ship should be the SOLOPWNMOBILE'O'DOOM _ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.06 10:08:00 - [46] This is definately a good idea in principle but lots of things need to be taken into consideration if you are going to increase the range of scrams and disruptors. Although the main point that should be considered, is that a lot of people already fit stabs to there ships, if this change were to happen you would see a big increase in stab usage and also maybe a lot more people unwilling to fight in a situation where they feel they cannot warp out. Originally by: Bob Pilot I couldn't careless if BoB pilots log in belts
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2006.10.06 10:09:00 - [47] Originally by: Sandra Tseng Get a friend in a tackler gawd damnet. it is a MULTIPLAYER GAME and no ship should be the SOLOPWNMOBILE'O'DOOM _ This isnt about solopwning, its about giving the bs the option to use falloff and optimal of there guns. Infact as gallente i couldnt care less. But for other races a AC temp with barrage can hit fine around 20-30ish k, but it cant freacking scramble there. So you say well bring a bring to do the scrambling. Well what if that other bs also brings a friend to scramble and rapes your inty tackling friend. Not everyone wants to gank peeps in eve, small gangs vs small gangs or even 1 vs 1 still exists. _________________________________________________
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.06 10:13:00 - [48] Originally by: Izo Azlion Originally by: Ithildin Warp jamming range need a general boost across the board. Strength 2 scramblers need to define short range (20km) Strength 1 scramblers need to define mid range (50-ish km) Could boost powergrid need of strength 1 scramblers to around 40 so that frigates can't too easily use them, considering that missile frigates with 30km scramblers are already too effective. I do think that it's time to bring scrambling out to nearly reach snipers at best. So what about retreating blaster boats? If we're not already webbed, its sometimes a struggle to make the 20km needed to warp out, if you've made the call early enough to get out in the first place. Bad idea, maybe a few KM more, but not 20km 2 points and 50km 1 point... Warp into a belt and instantly scramble? Boo. It goes hand-in-hand with the need to have significantly increased combat times. For example, currently it is hard to travel 20km before blowing up. In the future, it should be equally hard to travel 50km before blowing up. Well... as long as you aren't doing something suicidally silly such as trying to attack a fleet on your own. Then you deserve to die in 3 red ones. - Three years old
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.06 10:18:00 - [49] Originally by: Sandra Tseng Get a friend in a tackler gawd damnet. it is a MULTIPLAYER GAME and no ship should be the SOLOPWNMOBILE'O'DOOM _ 1. It's hard getting more than one tackler on a ship before it warps. 2. The more people you are, the more likely it is that the target will warp before he see your ships. 3. Solo pwn mobiles only happen because people operate solo without coordination. Or if a game mechanic is broken coughecm to allow a ship to attack several at the same time. So - the targets get pwned by one player because the target was a single player. It's a multiplayer game, get some backup to protect you. - Three years old
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.06 11:10:00 - [50] 40 km might be a bit too much, 30 km for 1000 grid seems nice to me, though. And it doesn't only effects 2 ships - it's a problem for the whole shortrange BS lvl. The advantage of ACs and pulses over blasters is range. 20k disruptors make an artifical border which negates the range advantage of these weapons.
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.06 11:22:00 - [51] If you want to engage at scram range, then fit yours hip according to the range of scrammers. You know they operate at max 20km, so either fit your ship along theese lines (lower tier guns, short range ammo, tracking enchancers/computers) or get a faction scrammer. You think a Sniper Rokh will get a 200km scrammer to match the range of its 425mm Railguns? _ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.10.06 11:24:00 - [52] This could be an idea for T2 scrams - improved range scrams with appropriate frig, cruiser, and BS sized fittings? Scrapheap Challenge Forums - All the cool kids are doing it!
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.06 12:55:00 - [53] Originally by: Sandra Tseng If you want to engage at scram range, then fit yours hip according to the range of scrammers. You know they operate at max 20km, so either fit your ship along theese lines (lower tier guns, short range ammo, tracking enchancers/computers) or get a faction scrammer. You think a Sniper Rokh will get a 200km scrammer to match the range of its 425mm Railguns? _ Sniper range != shortrange guns The point you still miss is that minnie and amarr ships CANNOT fit their ships along this lines. Because up to 20km blasters are the most effective weapon. It is not about tracking, it is about damage - BS sized blasters with null outdamage any pulse or AC setup up to 20ish km. If you want to beat a blasterthron with an AC or pulse setup the only feasible way is to stay in the 20-30 km range. The 20k disruptor is fine for the cruiser lvl, a good rupture pilot can beat a throax by outranging him. On the BS lvl this is not possible because in order to outrange a blastership there you have to fly outside the disruptorrange.
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.06 13:04:00 - [54] A Tracking disruptor halves the Blasterships effective range..... _ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
Kojiami	Posted - 2006.10.06 13:11:00 - [55] Remove scrambling whatsoever, scrambling is for morons, and it shouldn't be used, period.
inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.10.06 13:22:00 - [56] Originally by: Sandra Tseng A Tracking disruptor halves the Blasterships effective range..... It equally reduces yours, and has a greater effect on ships relying on optimal range than falloff (read: Amarr). I love these arguments about bring a tackler friend. So my Geddon vs Megathron becomes Geddon + tackler versus two Megathrons. Riiiiight... (sure, there's an upscaling argument but it sure doesn't hold in 1v1, 2v2 or probably 3v3 either)
Black Napallm adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.06 13:24:00 - [57] You want a T1 Bpo for a T3 module?
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.06 13:24:00 - [58] A Tracking Disruptor does NOT affect your own ship in anyway. Just as a remote sensor damper does not damp your own sensors. a webifier does nto web your own ship, a scrammer does not scram your own ship and an ECm does not jam your own ship... Dunno where you got that from? _ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg
inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.10.06 13:29:00 - [59] Originally by: Sandra Tseng A Tracking Disruptor does NOT affect your own ship in anyway. Just as a remote sensor damper does not damp your own sensors. a webifier does nto web your own ship, a scrammer does not scram your own ship and an ECm does not jam your own ship... Perhaps my attempt to keep the comment short and sharp obscured its meaning. If you can fit a tracking disruptor, so can a Megathron. And his will be more effective than yours (it affects only optimal, not falloff) if you're Amarrian, one of the two races that needs to fight outside disrupt range.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.06 13:30:00 - [60] Originally by: Sandra Tseng A Tracking disruptor halves the Blasterships effective range..... Since it does nothing to falloff it doesn't - effeciently it reduces it by about 20%. And amarr BSs and the typhoon do not have the spare med slots to use one in the first place. A pest can, but would then have to dance between 16-20 km which is with 2 unwebbed MWD BSs somewhat tricky, to say the least. But even if it is a feasible solution, thats still 1 out of 4 ships...
Vathar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.06 13:51:00 - [61] Well, not to go into too much details, but mounting tracking disruptors on a phoon is a valid and powerful solution, you don't need a web, and can do with non-injected setups ... Leaves 2 meds to play with if you think out of the box ... Now with current scrambling mechanisms, I'm still amazed that such a crucial part of pvp has not evolved to T2 stage! I kinda liked the suggestion of frig class -3 : 10k (-4 were suggested, probably too powerful) cruiser class -2 : 20k BS class -1 : 30k (40k were suggested, but I think it's a bit over the top) Now thing is that nothing would prevent a BS from fitting frig scramblers, this would need to be adressed. As a consequence, this would also "solve" the WCS problem ... as long as you get a buncha frigs to tackle, simple +1 WCS won't save ya (if it ruins WCS too much, that would require a bith of thought) Would also require to up the built in WCS for blockade runners a bit. But I didn't take time to think about the bad sides of this idea, I'm sure there are plenty of them! Now the lowslot enhancers for tackling mods sound nice to me, but they would have to be powerful enough to turn a frig into a tackling monster if you're willing to dedicate most of your setup to tackling ... If you fit for a specific role, you deserve to excel at it! This idea sounds more balanced to me ... As for T2, unless there's a complete revamp of scrambling, T2 modules with just 10%-20% more range (10% is a common performance increase for T2, some T2 modules are upped by 25%, I won't go into the crappy T2 ammo bonuses), increased fittings and reduced cap consumption might be nice, but tough to fit on frigs! ___________________________________________ Originally by: Stamm Minmatar are kind of like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair firing
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.10.06 14:11:00 - [62] Edited by: Nyxus on 06/10/2006 14:13:17 For those whining about frigates. A BS sized weapon isn't going to hit frigates outside 20km any better than it does now, which is to say, not much if any. Why do you think Crows with standards and faction scrams orbiting >20km are so good? They are nigh untouchable. In addition, 4000MW is 25% of a Tempest's grid. By comparison, a 20km scram is 2.5% of a Claws grid. Even using Aramendels suggestion of 1000MW it's still 6.5% of a BS's grid. Any BS using it is making a SERIOUS compromise with his tank or damage. It's more than a large armor repper ffs. @ Aramendel. 30km is good for ACs, but Pulse range is considerably more. I would rather see 40km, even if it required more grid, but 30km is better than nothing. Originally by: Testy This could be an idea for T2 scrams - improved range scrams with appropriate frig, cruiser, and BS sized fittings? Quite easily yes. I would rather have this as a T2 Scram then start seeing scrams with -2 or -4 like what is in the database now. I think Ithildin hit the ranges best. T2 scrams wouldn't be for frigates (they can move quickly into range) but rather upgraded scrams for Cruisers and BS. T1 Scram: 7.5km, -2 Scramble, 30tf 1MW (same as now) T1 Disruptor: 20km, -1, 40tf, 40tf 1MW (same as now) T2 Scram: 20km, -2 Scram, 20tf 75MW (new) T2 Disruptor, 40km, -1, 30tf 1000MW (new) I wouldn't mind seeing a 50km disruptor as Ithildin suggests, but I am tempering it slightly with Aramendels suggestion for 30km. I am still debating internally on what would be balanced. I went with 1000MW for the 40km scram simply because a geddon can fit 2k MW a lot easier than a Tempest or Typhoon. When you start looking at % of total grid it's a lot harder to fit it on a Matari or Caldari ship. I wouldn't mind seeing a 1k MW with 30 or 35km range and a 2k MW with a 40 or 50km range as that would seem fairly balanced and provide some options for fitting. I chose 75MW for the cruiser -2 since that is a significant investment for a cruiser without going over the top difficulty for fitting. A long range weapon is around 270MW or so. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Vathar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.06 14:28:00 - [63] Originally by: Nyxus In addition, 4000MW is 25% of a Tempest's grid. By comparison, a 20km scram is 2.5% of a Claws grid. Fitting scramblers on frigs is more of a CPU issue ... ___________________________________________ Originally by: Stamm Minmatar are kind of like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair firing
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.10.08 16:03:00 - [64] I still think that graduated warp disruptors are desperately needed. Untill then, battles will continue to go completely against ships with ACs and Pulses since thier strength (range) is nigh useless. And I haven't ever really had true cpu fitting hardships on a frig unless I was trying to do something like put ECM on my Harpy or fit it for long range. Thats why we have MAPCs in game but no co-proc equivalent. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Mr Peanut The New Empire R i s e	Posted - 2006.10.08 16:24:00 - [65] Edited by: Mr Peanut on 08/10/2006 16:24:38 This would make many more people die in low-sec (but still empire) space, so, at least from a financial standpoint, I can't see CCP putting this in. This is because some people will die too much on 0.4 gates and quit.
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.10.08 16:35:00 - [66] Ummm........how does this make people die more than they do now in low sec? If a BS is scrambling you at 20km now, its ability to scramble at 30 or 40 isn't really that different. All it does is even the playing field a bit. And it really needs some leveling. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Dixon Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.08 16:37:00 - [67] Originally by: Mr Peanut Edited by: Mr Peanut on 08/10/2006 16:24:38 This would make many more people die in low-sec (but still empire) space, so, at least from a financial standpoint, I can't see CCP putting this in. This is because some people will die too much on 0.4 gates and quit. How would this make more people die in lowsec gatecamps? And why should we care if people who can't take a ship loss quit? - - - - - - I have no strong feelings one way or the other...
XGS Crimson	Posted - 2006.10.08 16:46:00 - [68] lol if you boost scramblers you will end gallente... minmitar ship scrams you at 30km and just stays there popping shots at you with no ability to fight back... lol i want:)
Mr Peanut The New Empire R i s e	Posted - 2006.10.08 20:23:00 - [69] Originally by: Dixon Originally by: Mr Peanut Edited by: Mr Peanut on 08/10/2006 16:24:38 This would make many more people die in low-sec (but still empire) space, so, at least from a financial standpoint, I can't see CCP putting this in. This is because some people will die too much on 0.4 gates and quit. How would this make more people die in lowsec gatecamps? And why should we care if people who can't take a ship loss quit? 1. It makes people die because now you don't need as many people with warp scramblers. Who knows, maybe you could even solo gate camp. 2. It's not that WE care, it's that CCP, who feed their families on EVE subscriptions cares.
ThaMa Gebir Gallente Raddick Explorations Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.08 22:02:00 - [70] Well to be honest I have more problems with the capacitor use on warp scrmablers on frigates but meh thats another thread. There will be no survivors now that i'm around - Xorus pwnt - Immy

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