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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Sadist
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.10.12 05:37:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Tuxford I've been replying to the forums today. I'm just gonna list some of the smaller tweaks and changes here.
Comments in orange.
Ships Powergrid of Sacrilege, Deimos and Muninn increased to 1100MW, 950MW and 1100MW respectively Only about a year too late, than the changes should have been implemented. How hard was it to alter 3 values in the game?
CPU of Sacrilege and Deimos increased to 350tf for both ships Except Deimos is FINE on CPU. What it needs is either a mass change or a speed boost - you still think it should be the slowest hac in the game?
Agility of battlecruisers and command ships boosted by 20% So now plated HAC's are going to have same or worse agility than the command ships? In other words you're nerfing HAC's even more. Brilliant move.
Nighthawk's explosion velocity changed to launcher rate of fire bonus Doubt it'll help the horrible dps it puts out and the lock range...
Modules Inertia stabilizers give decrease in mass as well as agility and give a penalty to signature radius How big of a penalty?
тттттттттттт
VIP member of the [23]
Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
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That One
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Posted - 2006.10.12 07:31:00 -
[152]
That's a great point and I hadn't really looked at Command Ship targeting ranges before - is there a reason why they're all really horrible? ----------
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Serj Darek
Minmatar Mentally Unstable Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.10.12 08:01:00 -
[153]
Hooray!
Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes It contains my ingame name and corp ticker - Serj
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CherniyVolk
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Posted - 2006.10.12 08:49:00 -
[154]
Edited by: CherniyVolk on 12/10/2006 08:51:47 Edited by: CherniyVolk on 12/10/2006 08:50:50 Thanks for the PG boost. \o/ hugs, and all that stuff.
I hope one of the things you forgot was agility boost for the Deimos! o/
The other day, a corp mate and I did a 35KM standoff in a Munin and a Deimos. He could have killed my Deimos every time before I could get close enough to use blasters. That's only 35KM... It's a big problem for the Deimos, it's not even top end speed it is the ship's poor acceleration/agility.
Maybe, the ability to top out max speed, from stand still, a few seconds before the MWD recycles?
Seriously, the Deimos is like a Mustang with a supercharger, but the stock clutch is badly worn. Please, make it handle like a BMW, with an three point drag racing clutch! (such clutches can't be 'feathered' they are either engaged or not... zoom zoom!) pweeeeze! :)
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Hectaire Glade
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.10.12 09:10:00 -
[155]
The BC agility change is just excellent, it may finally move this ship class into active use, rather than being a training stepping stone to BS.
Excellent decision. Thanks Tux for listening to the community and taking action.
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Aloysius Knight
Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.12 09:11:00 -
[156]
Tux ive noticed some changes you missed in your first post so here they are
* Power grid of typhoon has been increased by 1000Mw to 13500Mw
*Armour and shield on typhoon has been swaped around, will now be 4969 armour and 4375 for shield
*Nidhoggur Bonuse has been changed to 7.5% to fighter tracking per lvl
*All capital ships have had their hp boosted by 400%
*capital repair mods are affected by gang mods
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Flitz Farseeker
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.10.12 09:17:00 -
[157]
I've only recently moved up to a Brutix and I have to say that it handles way worse than my Iteron III industrial, so a big YAY! to the devs.
Not sure about the changes to inertial stabs - they certainly need some attention. I know I haven't fitted them to any of my ships instead of nanofibers, so will need to wait and see what the numbers are.
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Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.12 09:21:00 -
[158]
Edited by: Ithildin on 12/10/2006 09:22:22
Originally by: Sadist
Originally by: Tuxford I've been replying to the forums today. I'm just gonna list some of the smaller tweaks and changes here.
Comments in orange.
Ships Powergrid of Sacrilege, Deimos and Muninn increased to 1100MW, 950MW and 1100MW respectively Only about a year too late, than the changes should have been implemented. How hard was it to alter 3 values in the game?
It's easy to change three values. To evaluate whether they should be changed is a lot harder and actually takes time - and I'm not talking popular opinion here.
Originally by: Sadist
Originally by: Tuxford CPU of Sacrilege and Deimos increased to 350tf for both ships Except Deimos is FINE on CPU. What it needs is either a mass change or a speed boost - you still think it should be the slowest hac in the game?
It's not too kind on CPU, either. I can agree that it needs at least Thorax speed traits, though. The damage output isn't high enough to merit the sluggishness - it'd need another damage bonus for that.
Originally by: Sadist
Originally by: Tuxford
Agility of battlecruisers and command ships boosted by 20% So now plated HAC's are going to have same or worse agility than the command ships? In other words you're nerfing HAC's even more. Brilliant move.
The Astarte had an agility value of 14.85 before skills The Astarte will have an agility value of 11.88 before skills The Deimos by comparison has an agility value of 7.8 before skills Agility value is calculated as megatonnes times agility rating. So instead of the Astarte being twice as cumbersome as the Deimos, it will only be half as cumbersome.
Originally by: Sadist
Originally by: Tuxford
Nighthawk's explosion velocity changed to launcher rate of fire bonus Doubt it'll help the horrible dps it puts out and the lock range...
I calculated the dps of a Nighthawk to be around 580 with two damage mods (take or give due to stacking nerf). Each Nighthawk just recieved a +33.3% dps bonus, landing the Nighthawk at 774 with two damage mods, which is a very respectable damage for a ship that's got an 84.375km maximum operational range without being tied to any specific damage type. You can compare that to the Astarte's damage at max range 40km (where the hit probability is about 10%).
* using T1 ammo, of course!
Originally by: Sadist
Originally by: Tuxford
Modules Inertia stabilizers give decrease in mass as well as agility and give a penalty to signature radius How big of a penalty?
Well, since we don't know the benefits, either, why not ask for complete stats?
Edit: Wrong decimal sign used. - Three years old |
without
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Posted - 2006.10.12 09:25:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Tuxford
no
Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% launcher rate of fire and 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level
Command Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to heavy missile Kinetic damage and 5% heavy missile precision
you have just given the caldari race a bigger iwin button than the raven
Setup: 6x heavy launcher t2 : 1x small neutron blaster t2 [or drop the stabs for dcu and u can get a medium nosf on here] large t2 booster, 2x invol t2, 20km, [last slot is optional but id go with large t2 extender] 2x stab, 2x dmg mods, 1x dcu
Std missiles sig[max skills]: 70.3125m Exp velocity: 1125mps 150dmg
High precision missiles: sig [max skills]: 28.125m Exp velocity: 1500mps 150dmg
High dmg missiles: sig [max skills]: 84.375m Exp velocity: 1125mps 180dmg
with high dmg missiles you get about 2150 burst damage [basicly you totally *****any t1 crusier in two shots.]
so you do 600 +DPS inc drones, at 54km or can hit up at 85km if you use standard ammo. and with your digh dmg heavy missiles having 84.375sig you dont need any painter to even hit the smallest sig crusier for full dmg.
this ship will be sooo much better than the cerb at agent whoring [the sig of missiles will kill smaller targets much faster, and its high dps and better thank.]
now you have handed the caldari a 600DPS machine that can do this upto 50km + while having the BEST tank [60% on EM, over 80% on the others!] AND TWO STABS. should the rest of us quit or train caldari im stuck on that one. im going to be taking the quit route though!
gl to you
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Deva Blackfire
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.12 09:30:00 -
[160]
Quote: so you do 600 +DPS inc drones, at 54km or can hit up at 85km if you use standard ammo
Rotfl... And i do 600dps (700 with better skills) at 7,5km with Absolution... But hey, missiles are balanced and are as easy to counter as turrets...
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without
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Posted - 2006.10.12 09:36:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Quote: so you do 600 +DPS inc drones, at 54km or can hit up at 85km if you use standard ammo
Rotfl... And i do 600dps (700 with better skills) at 7,5km with Absolution... But hey, missiles are balanced and are as easy to counter as turrets...
yeh ill eat your absol every day of the weak in my blasterthron, your hitting me with EM mostly and i got 80% EM resistant. i can heavy neut you or heavy nosf you to shut down your guns/tank. you only go 7.5km, he gets 10x the range. he can also swap one stab for a 3rd dmg mod giving him another 10% damage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
he has a better tank!! he has MORE damage [since i stated 600dps with 2 dmg mods, that will get the 650dps with 3dmg mods which he can fit EASY and still have +1 stab] he has an extender which you do not!
thanks for making the caldari no1 on every ship tux,
and just wait for assault missiles i bet we see that dps uped by 30-50% and with a range of 25km+
you have just given the caldari spec char of eve the BESTTTTT agent whoring ship, and imo the BEST CS for gangs and a dam good one for solo work
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Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.10.12 09:50:00 -
[162]
omfg, what are you guys smoking? With my maxed missile skills i still get around 400 dps of kinetic damage on nighthawk with 2 bcs II. That will leave me with heavily gimped tank with no tackling abilities.
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without
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Posted - 2006.10.12 10:00:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Kamikaaazi omfg, what are you guys smoking? With my maxed missile skills i still get around 400 dps of kinetic damage on nighthawk with 2 bcs II. That will leave me with heavily gimped tank with no tackling abilities.
lies!
also add 33.33% from the "new" bonous you are getting!!! which would give "your" nighthawk 400*1.33333 = 533.33DPS + drones which gives it the 600+ DPS
on top of that, your tank is definitly the best of the command ships! you can fit 2x invol t2, large extender t2, large t2 booster, 20km. [or swap that ext for a amp or cap injecter] in lows u can fit 3BCU t2 and 1DCU and 1 stab!!
that gives you 650+DPS at 55+KM!!!!!!! with missiles of sig 84.3m [ie full dmg to all crusiers without a web or target painter! and with percision missiles u crap all over smaller craft]
thanks again tux !
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Deva Blackfire
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.12 10:01:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 12/10/2006 10:04:47
Originally by: Kamikaaazi omfg, what are you guys smoking? With my maxed missile skills i still get around 400 dps of kinetic damage on nighthawk with 2 bcs II. That will leave me with heavily gimped tank with no tackling abilities.
1. we are talking abt Nighthhawk with ROF bonus (33% do DPS at lvl5 - considering 5% ROF increase per lvl) so your 400 suddenly becomes 530
2. on my abso i have tank + gank, with NO tackling at all. 3 mids dont help it, and injector on cap heavy ship is a must.
3. its still the difference in range - with pulse abso i can hit at abt 25km tops (22 optimal) with scorch, where your 2 damage mods ship (i also have 2 dmg mods) outranges it and hits heavier.
TBH i'd like to see damage graphs. Anyone up to the task?
EDIT: As for changes. The sacri boost could be transferred to othe ships that needs it WAY more: OMEN.
Sacri is not that hard to fit compared to amarr tier2 gankcruiser...
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Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.10.12 10:02:00 -
[165]
that 400 is allready WITH ROF bonus and DRONES! Do the math yourself if you dont believe it.
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.12 10:05:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Kamikaaazi omfg, what are you guys smoking? With my maxed missile skills i still get around 400 dps of kinetic damage on nighthawk with 2 bcs II. That will leave me with heavily gimped tank with no tackling abilities.
With 3 bcus you get 400dps with okish skills and t1 missiles. Which is comparable to railstarte with 3x dmg mods and antimatter(cca 450). Only thing is that ... fubared rails hits nothing and have range of something like 20km+20km falloff. Dual web + not aligned 4tl.
/trains caldari cruiser lvl5.
Sig is not eve related
Eve related? Copyright of ISD?
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Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.10.12 10:10:00 -
[167]
Originally by: without
on top of that, your tank is definitly the best of the command ships! you can fit 2x invol t2, large extender t2, large t2 booster, 20km. [or swap that ext for a amp or cap injecter] in lows u can fit 3BCU t2 and 1DCU and 1 stab!!
that wont fit, tho you could use named but then you got 1 empty high slot. Arent command ships supposed to use gang boost modules? Am i the only one whos trying to fit those in their setups?
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without
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Posted - 2006.10.12 10:21:00 -
[168]
Edited by: without on 12/10/2006 10:25:32 Edited by: without on 12/10/2006 10:22:53
Originally by: Kamikaaazi that 400 is allready WITH ROF bonus and DRONES! Do the math yourself if you dont believe it.
then one of these things is happening right now
1: your full of bull**** OR 2: your client is bugged 3: your skills are very low and you are talking about t1 missiles in a t1 launcher 4: maybe you are not looking at high dmg t2 missiles?
i think the likelyness of these are 1>3>4>2
simple math
180 [damage of missiles] * 1.25 [heavy missile skill] * 1.1 [+2% per lvl dmg skill] * 1.25 [kin dmg on nighthawk] * 6 [no of launchers] = 1856.25 dmg
12 [base rof] * 0.9 [2% missile rof skill] * .85 [3% rof missile skill] * 0.9 [heavy missile spec skill] * .75 [BC new skill] = 6.1965
DPS [max skills, no implants, no dmg mods] = (1856.25/6.1965) = 299.56
add in 3x dmg mod t2 gives : 58% to DPS [this is from memory so if someone could confirm ingame would be great, id do it but no access to eve atm] thus DPS from kin missiles = 474DPS
97.2DPS from 5 thermal small drones [gal drone spec 4]. gives 571.2
now you have one turret slot left. which will most definitly make up the 29DPS required to hit 600DPS!!!
you where saying?
Originally by: Kamikaaazi
Originally by: without
on top of that, your tank is definitly the best of the command ships! you can fit 2x invol t2, large extender t2, large t2 booster, 20km. [or swap that ext for a amp or cap injecter] in lows u can fit 3BCU t2 and 1DCU and 1 stab!!
that wont fit, tho you could use named but then you got 1 empty high slot. Arent command ships supposed to use gang boost modules? Am i the only one whos trying to fit those in their setups?
the highthawk has no need to fit a command mod, since a vulture in gang would beat its bonous! also the setup i gave [witht he t2 ext does indeed fit!!!]
Originally by: LUKEC
With 3 bcus you get 400dps with okish skills and t1 missiles. Which is comparable to railstarte with 3x dmg mods and antimatter(cca 450). Only thing is that ... fubared rails hits nothing and have range of something like 20km+20km falloff. Dual web + not aligned 4tl.
/trains caldari cruiser lvl5.
20km range with crappy tracking, no stab astarete, much lesser tank, much lesser burst damge, much lesser range compaired to the nighthawks 80 odd sig t2 missiles or 70 odd t2, or even less with precision ones!
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Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.10.12 10:36:00 -
[169]
Originally by: without Edited by: without on 12/10/2006 10:22:53
Originally by: Kamikaaazi that 400 is allready WITH ROF bonus and DRONES! Do the math yourself if you dont believe it.
then one of these things is happening right now
1: your full of bull**** OR 2: your client is bugged 3: your skills are very low and you are talking about t1 missiles in a t1 launcher 4: maybe you are not looking at high dmg t2 missiles?
i think the likelyness of these are 1>3>4>2
simple math
180 [damage of missiles] * 1.25 [heavy missile skill] * 1.1 [+2% per lvl dmg skill] * 1.25 [kin dmg on nighthawk] * 6 [no of launchers] = 1856.25 dmg
12 [base rof] * 0.9 [2% missile rof skill] * .85 [3% rof missile skill] * 0.9 [heavy missile spec skill] * .75 [BC new skill] = 6.1965
DPS [max skills, no implants, no dmg mods] = (1856.25/6.1965) = 299.56
add in 3x dmg mod t2 gives : 58% to DPS [this is from memory so if someone could confirm ingame would be great, id do it but no access to eve atm] thus DPS from kin missiles = 474DPS
97.2DPS from 5 thermal small drones [gal drone spec 4]. gives 571.2
now you have one turret slot left. which will most definitly make up the 29DPS required to hit 600DPS!!!
you where saying?
Originally by: Kamikaaazi
Originally by: without
on top of that, your tank is definitly the best of the command ships! you can fit 2x invol t2, large extender t2, large t2 booster, 20km. [or swap that ext for a amp or cap injecter] in lows u can fit 3BCU t2 and 1DCU and 1 stab!!
that wont fit, tho you could use named but then you got 1 empty high slot. Arent command ships supposed to use gang boost modules? Am i the only one whos trying to fit those in their setups?
the highthawk has no need to fit a command mod, since a vulture in gang would beat its bonous! also the setup i gave [witht he t2 ext does indeed fit!!!]
hell yeah everybody has maxed skills with drones and missiles and are shooting at the targets that dont shoot back. You know what happens to your cap when using t2 fury missiles?
Lets do the math with average pvp joe skills. 150 (missile base damage) x 1.25 (heavy mis lvl5) x 1.08 (warhead upg lvl4) x 1.20 (lvl4 command ships) x 6 (launchers) = 1458 of KINETIC damage
12 (base t2 launcher rof) x 0.9 (missile launcher op lvl5) x 0.85 (rapid launch lvl5) x 0.92 (heavy spec lvl4) x 0.75 (BC lvl5) = 6.3342
1458/6.3342 = 230.18 DPS of KINETIC damage
now add 2 damage mods and you MAYBE get 400 dps with t2 drones.
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Deva Blackfire
DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.12 10:48:00 -
[170]
If you want to compare bonuses/damage always compare em at max skills.
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without
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Posted - 2006.10.12 11:03:00 -
[171]
also everyone should know
the crystal implants are being changed to add shield HP insted of booster HP from kali
WOOOOT NERF CALDARI
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FFGR
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.10.12 11:16:00 -
[172]
Originally by: without also everyone should know
the crystal implants are being changed to add shield HP insted of booster HP from kali
WOOOOT NERF CALDARI
Actually that would be a boost due to the shield regeneration _____________________________
siggys v. 0.5 |
Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.12 11:23:00 -
[173]
So... 230 dps of kinetic damage at 60-70km before damage mods.
Astarte. Similar skills. 250mm Railgun II (10 thermal 14 kinetic) * 3.3 (base damage mod) * 1.25 (medium turret 5) * 1.12 (Surg. Str. 4) * 1.2 (CBC 4) * 1.25 (BC 5) * 1.08 (med rail spec 4) = 74.84 Thermal 104.78 kinetic (per turret)
6.375 (base ROF) * 0.9 (Gunnery 5) * 0.80 (Rapid Firing 5) = 4.59
Thus: 22.83 kinetic 16.31 thermal Sum: 39.13 dps 7 turrets: 273.95 (159.81 kinetic, 114.17 thermal) (and minor rounding errors)
Let's compare, shall we, kamikaaazi? Nighthawk: 230 kinetic dps at about 70km Astarte: 274 kinetic and thermal dps at about 25km
Wait... Something's wrong here. Astarte does 19% more damage, however it has 65% shorter range! And that's not even counting tracking... hmm... Could it possibly be that it's a very long range weapon compared to a mid ranged weapon? - Three years old |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.12 11:27:00 -
[174]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 12/10/2006 11:27:24
Originally by: Kamikaaazi omfg, what are you guys smoking? With my maxed missile skills i still get around 400 dps of kinetic damage on nighthawk with 2 bcs II. That will leave me with heavily gimped tank with no tackling abilities.
Nope.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Hygelac
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.10.12 11:36:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Tuxford
Modules Inertia stabilizers give decrease in mass as well as agility and give a penalty to signature radius
Hey Tux, love the changes you've posted thus-far as always but I've a gripe about the above.
Right now, nobody in their right mind would ever use this module, is the reduction in mass really going to be so significant that it needs a Sig Radius nerf to even it out?
If the goal is to get this module in use again, I'm not sure if this is going to fix the problem.
Of course difficult for me to comment on that without the stats ;)
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Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos |
Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.10.12 11:38:00 -
[176]
like i care about that 75km, just gimme a weapon system that gives me 1k+ dps at 5km. Allso reduce my ship mass and increase agility and speed. Im sick and tired of hearing ppl whine about "unlimited range" for missiles. How come nonone sticks around long enough for those missiles to hit from 100km.
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Arshes Nei
Dark-Rising Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.12 11:42:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Ithildin So... 230 dps of kinetic damage at 60-70km before damage mods.
Astarte. Similar skills. 250mm Railgun II (10 thermal 14 kinetic) * 3.3 (base damage mod) * 1.25 (medium turret 5) * 1.12 (Surg. Str. 4) * 1.2 (CBC 4) * 1.25 (BC 5) * 1.08 (med rail spec 4) = 74.84 Thermal 104.78 kinetic (per turret)
6.375 (base ROF) * 0.9 (Gunnery 5) * 0.80 (Rapid Firing 5) = 4.59
Thus: 22.83 kinetic 16.31 thermal Sum: 39.13 dps 7 turrets: 273.95 (159.81 kinetic, 114.17 thermal) (and minor rounding errors)
Let's compare, shall we, kamikaaazi? Nighthawk: 230 kinetic dps at about 70km Astarte: 274 kinetic and thermal dps at about 25km
Wait... Something's wrong here. Astarte does 19% more damage, however it has 65% shorter range! And that's not even counting tracking... hmm... Could it possibly be that it's a very long range weapon compared to a mid ranged weapon?
Not wanting to interrupt your little math slugfest but did you really need to do numbercrunching to find out that heavy missiles do a bit less damage than rails but have far longer range? Pretty sure you get similar results comparing rails vs heavy missiles on a ferox, or comparing a rail setup thorax vs a caracal. Also your comparsion doesnt take into account that even though the astarte has 65% less range it still can utilize that range better due to instant hits(think 5 astarte at 40km from a gate vs. 5 nighthawk 70km from the gate).
If you really are so desperate to comparing stuff why dont you compare blasters on astarte(i heard there are a few people using them ) with assault launchers on nighthawk, since they are both the shortrange weapons of the respective ships(by the logic that rails and heavys are long range).
Bottomline is when two ships have the same amount of damageboni your either worrying about skills or the weapon themselves, the ships got nothing to do with it(i, like others, tend to assume CS fit atleast 1 gang module).
So no offense intended and im not saying your completly wrong or something but your comparsion is not very fair imho.
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Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.12 11:43:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Kamikaaazi like i care about that 75km, just gimme a weapon system that gives me 1k+ dps at 5km. Allso reduce my ship mass and increase agility and speed. Im sick and tired of hearing ppl whine about "unlimited range" for missiles. How come nonone sticks around long enough for those missiles to hit from 100km.
So why the hell do you fly Caldari? If you want close range damage, train Gallente. That's how it works. You aren't allowed to do everything well with limited skills. You need to specialize.
Want damage at close range? Specialize Gallente. Want long long range? Train Caldari. - Three years old |
Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.10.12 11:52:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Kamikaaazi like i care about that 75km, just gimme a weapon system that gives me 1k+ dps at 5km. Allso reduce my ship mass and increase agility and speed. Im sick and tired of hearing ppl whine about "unlimited range" for missiles. How come nonone sticks around long enough for those missiles to hit from 100km.
So why the hell do you fly Caldari? If you want close range damage, train Gallente. That's how it works. You aren't allowed to do everything well with limited skills. You need to specialize.
Want damage at close range? Specialize Gallente. Want long long range? Train Caldari.
so gallente should be the only race to have uber close range dps weapons? How come then amarr and minmatar allso have real nice close range dps weapon systems? All i want is a close range DPS weapon system for caldari. BTW, my main is 42m sp caldari spec char. I dont run missions and i dont build stuff. All i do is pvp. Talking about npc balance falls to empty ears.
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Lygos
ISS Navy Task Force
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Posted - 2006.10.12 11:53:00 -
[180]
So, did covops users, especially Cheetar ones, train Covert Operations to V for nothing, or is that still req'd for having both a cloak and scan probe active?
No good at maths.
--- Private Investment should preceed Public Investment |
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