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Tuxford	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:20:00 - [1] I've been replying to the forums today. I'm just gonna list some of the smaller tweaks and changes here. Ships Powergrid of Sacrilege, Deimos and Muninn increased to 1100MW, 950MW and 1100MW respectively CPU of Sacrilege and Deimos increased to 350tf for both ships CPU of Anathema, Helios and Cheetah increased to 280tf, 290tf and 275tf respectively bonus of covert ops ships changed so it reduces cpu need of covert ops cloaking device from 98% to 100% Agility of battlecruisers and command ships boosted by 20% Nighthawk's explosion velocity changed to launcher rate of fire bonus Modules Inertia stabilizers give decrease in mass as well as agility and give a penalty to signature radius This is all I can remember for now. _______________

Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:25:00 - [2] YAY! ------------------ Save Deimos!
Lucus Ranger Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:26:00 - [3] Whoot!!
Caol Minmatar Privateers	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:27:00 - [4] Originally by: Tuxford This is all I can remember for now. More to come soon?

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:28:00 - [5] Yeah but probably not until after the weekend. _______________

Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:31:00 - [6] Originally by: Tuxford I've been replying to the forums today. I'm just gonna list some of the smaller tweaks and changes here. Ships Powergrid of Sacrilege, Deimos and Muninn increased to 1100MW, 950MW and 1100MW respectively CPU of Sacrilege and Deimos increased to 350tf for both ships bonus of covert ops ships changed so it reduces cpu need of covert ops cloaking device from 98% to 100% This is all I can remember for now. This is all very good Tux, but care to explain why do you think the Deimos doesnt deserve agility boost as well? Also, the bonus change to cov ops is only for cov ops or recons too? since its same bonus atm. ------------------ Save Deimos!
Caol Minmatar Privateers	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:31:00 - [7] Originally by: Tuxford Yeah but probably not until after the weekend. Okedokey
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:32:00 - [8] oh... deimos could use a bit of agility aswell. as for the rest yay \o/ ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Rasitiln Minmatar SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:43:00 - [9] when are these changes going to occur? --------
Mitchman Omniscient Order	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:43:00 - [10] The Raven and Ishtar are in serious need of some CPU love. The raven can not be fitted with T2 gear without a cpu extender II (and forget about using the last to high slots if you use siege launchers). The ishtar needs faction hardeners to be able to fit a armor tank with some EW, disruptors or similar in med slots.

Idara Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:46:00 - [11] BC agility! WOOOO
Bombasy Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:48:00 - [12] Edited by: Bombasy on 11/10/2006 13:49:11 Originally by: Mitchman The Raven and Ishtar are in serious need of some CPU love. The raven can not be fitted with T2 gear without a cpu extender II (and forget about using the last to high slots if you use siege launchers). The ishtar needs faction hardeners to be able to fit a armor tank with some EW, disruptors or similar in med slots. You sir, are what we in the business call a retard, I hereby request you GTFO of my genepool. Your signature is inappropriate. If you have any questions, email us at [email protected] Tirg Your signature is inappropriate. Please email [email protected] if you want to know why -Eldo
El Yatta Caldari Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:50:00 - [13] Originally by: Mitchman The Raven and Ishtar are in serious need of some CPU love. The raven can not be fitted with T2 gear without a cpu extender II (and forget about using the last to high slots if you use siege launchers). The ishtar needs faction hardeners to be able to fit a armor tank with some EW, disruptors or similar in med slots. Respectfully disagree - they are both really very good, with their main drawback being those tiny fittings - seige and nos with a tank is a very tricky choice, t2 tank mods really burn CPU, and ishtar its all about wangling out the CPU for EW/hards, which is very fun to set up. ---\|\|---
Aurora Tagan Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:51:00 - [14] Sounds Awsome
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:51:00 - [15] Some nice needed changes there mr Tux, i'm especially pleased with Muninn. BC agility will be nice to, AC Cyclone will move nicely. Originally by: Mitchman The Raven and Ishtar are in serious need of some CPU love. The raven can not be fitted with T2 gear without a cpu extender II (and forget about using the last to high slots if you use siege launchers). The ishtar needs faction hardeners to be able to fit a armor tank with some EW, disruptors or similar in med slots. In that case boost all BS's CPU as they can't fit everything T2... Be thankful for what you have already! Boosting Raven's LMAO, yeah right at least you don't have to use lows to tank so can afford to use a low for a CPU/Fitting mods. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:51:00 - [16] Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 11/10/2006 13:55:39 Sounds great, a lot of ships that needed help seem to be getting it A couple of questions/suggestions: 1) Like others, I'd also suggest a (small) agility boost to the Deimos, it needs it. 2) Do the inertia stabs really need a penalty? At the moment nobody uses them, with the mass decrease they might well become useful but if they also have a penalty... oh well, we'll see, depends on the actual values. 3) A couple of other ships in dire need of grid increase are the Ares and the Nemesis. They may need other help too, but at the moment their grid is totally crippling them (Nemesis is especially sad here, fit 2 cruise launchers on it and you're pretty much out of grid already :). The Ares is also crippled by the fact that it needs a MAPC or two to fit anything reasonable, effectively removing 1-2 lowslots from an already problematic inty.
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:51:00 - [17] Originally by: Mitchman The Raven and Ishtar are in serious need of some CPU love. The raven can not be fitted with T2 gear without a cpu extender II (and forget about using the last to high slots if you use siege launchers). The ishtar needs faction hardeners to be able to fit a armor tank with some EW, disruptors or similar in med slots. "I cannot fit full rack of the biggest Tier2 guns/best tanking mods without sacrifices. boost ship plzkthkx"? ------- Originally by: Abdalion Originally by: Jebidus Skari What, in EVE, is a Tyrant? Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:53:00 - [18] Originally by: Mitchman The Raven and Ishtar are in serious need of some CPU love. The raven can not be fitted with T2 gear without a cpu extender II (and forget about using the last to high slots if you use siege launchers). The ishtar needs faction hardeners to be able to fit a armor tank with some EW, disruptors or similar in med slots. Please don't clutter this with needless requests for ships which are fine as is. The Ishtar and Raven quite definitely do not need help, they are solid. Nemesis, Ares, and maybe some others do -- I doubt anyone here will claim those ships are fine as they are.
Car Wars adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:53:00 - [19] Tux, Can you look at the stealth bombers too, they are pretty nerfed beyond use. Some powergrid/cpu would be nice. More speed bonus while cloaked. etc. There are plenty off threads about it.
Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:54:00 - [20] Sounds like good changes so far. Can you look into Amarr battleship problems next please? A megathron can fit a full rack of 425 IIs, mwd, plate, medium armor rep without having to use any fitting mods at all and having enough cpu for damage mods / tracking stuff. When I try to set up my Apoc for fleets, I end up with 7 Tachs, mwd, medium rep 2 and fail to squeeze in everything because of CPU issues and have to fit an RCU2 to get comparable range and damage output to a mega or tempest. The geddon needs an mwd nowadays because of the megapulse range nerf and was clearly not balanced for it, it needs cpu love badly or we need to see a decrease in CPU use on beams. They're meant to be Grid hogs, not CPU hogs. (Yes, I do have eng / electronics / awu 5 and a -3% turret CPU implant) - - One ship to jam them all, one ship to damp them. One ship to suck them dry and in the dark void gank them.

Frools No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:55:00 - [21] T1 amarr cruiser boost please
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:55:00 - [22] Originally by: Car Wars Tux, Can you look at the stealth bombers too, they are pretty nerfed beyond use. Some powergrid/cpu would be nice. More speed bonus while cloaked. etc. There are plenty off threads about it. Yeah. While the Nemesis is the most clearly broken one, the others might need some basic grid/cpu help. The whole ship class migth need an overhaul, but I thing a grid/cpu boost would be a good start to see where things stand.
Ethidium Bromide ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.11 13:59:00 - [23] i can put decent stuff on my sacrilege now WOOT! my prophecy is not a lame sitting duck anymore WOOT! still won't fly my anathema Originally by: George Petsch Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida. My sig is blue not pink although i can't argue with the slave part - Xorus wth whats this blue stuff all of a sudden? Did I miss a mail? -eris Bwahahahaha!11 Immy was here
Skinny Boy Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:01:00 - [24] Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr Sounds like good changes so far. Can you look into Amarr battleship problems next please? A megathron can fit a full rack of 425 IIs, mwd, plate, medium armor rep without having to use any fitting mods at all and having enough cpu for damage mods / tracking stuff. When I try to set up my Apoc for fleets, I end up with 7 Tachs, mwd, medium rep 2 and fail to squeeze in everything because of CPU issues and have to fit an RCU2 to get comparable range and damage output to a mega or tempest. The geddon needs an mwd nowadays because of the megapulse range nerf and was clearly not balanced for it, it needs cpu love badly or we need to see a decrease in CPU use on beams. They're meant to be Grid hogs, not CPU hogs. (Yes, I do have eng / electronics / awu 5 and a -3% turret CPU implant) Agree, even with a character completely gal specced and no amarr character i can see how out of balance it is, megatrhon needs a pg decrease and the large beams and pulses need both a cpu decrease and a pg decrease to allow them to fit something remotely comparable
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:02:00 - [25] Nice one. Any chance of you having a look at faction ships especially cruisers? --------- Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind. Vagabond pilots want http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=405915
Waut 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:03:00 - [26] Edited by: Waut on 11/10/2006 14:03:32 [Quote] Agility of battlecruisers and command ships boosted by 20% Nighthawk's explosion velocity changed to launcher rate of fire bonus This I like Outbreak! F* Yeah! Coming again to save the motherf*ing day yeah! In Soviet EVE, roids pop YOU
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:03:00 - [27] I endorse these changes. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
inSpirAcy The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:03:00 - [28] 20%? My Prophecy's going to rule.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:04:00 - [29] gasp so my Ferox no longer handles like a solid block of lead, but like a rather bulky brick now ? __ Always question everything. Including yourself.
Weirda Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:04:00 - [30] Great news Tux! as some other have stated, would be nice to see Stealth Bomber get a slight boost. Weirda have one (of many) thread in sig... check it out! __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now Stealth Bomber Tweaks

Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:04:00 - [31] Originally by: Skinny Boy Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr Sounds like good changes so far. Can you look into Amarr battleship problems next please? A megathron can fit a full rack of 425 IIs, mwd, plate, medium armor rep without having to use any fitting mods at all and having enough cpu for damage mods / tracking stuff. When I try to set up my Apoc for fleets, I end up with 7 Tachs, mwd, medium rep 2 and fail to squeeze in everything because of CPU issues and have to fit an RCU2 to get comparable range and damage output to a mega or tempest. The geddon needs an mwd nowadays because of the megapulse range nerf and was clearly not balanced for it, it needs cpu love badly or we need to see a decrease in CPU use on beams. They're meant to be Grid hogs, not CPU hogs. (Yes, I do have eng / electronics / awu 5 and a -3% turret CPU implant) Agree, even with a character completely gal specced and no amarr character i can see how out of balance it is, megatrhon needs a pg decrease and the large beams and pulses need both a cpu decrease and a pg decrease to allow them to fit something remotely comparable Tempest with 6x 1400mm T2's has 70pg left so fitting mwd/plate/rep or the other 2 high slots is a problem... so i guess its rails pg if anything is the problem. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Rasitiln Minmatar SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:05:00 - [32] Edited by: Rasitiln on 11/10/2006 14:10:46 how about 1 more mid on the wolf, and a longer lock range on the claw and maybe just a tiny bit more cpu on it. --------
Idara Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:05:00 - [33] YES! BC boost! Can't wait for the Tier 2s now!
Tyler Lowe Minmatar DROW Org Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:07:00 - [34] The changes look very nice Tuxford, I do have one question with regards to further changes. Is the powergrid of the Typhoon being looked into? It feels like the shield values and armor values are not the only items inverted when considering the slot layout, the grid seems much more on par with supporting a shield tank than an armor tank as well. It is currently impossible to fit 1200mm artillery and cruise launchers without fitting help, basically forcing the ship into a close range setup or forcing fitting mods to use the lightest longer range weapons of each class. J.A.F.O.
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:10:00 - [35] nothing about making the deimos into a pwnmobile? Save Low-sec
Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:11:00 - [36] Originally by: Mila Prestoc Originally by: Skinny Boy Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr Sounds like good changes so far. Can you look into Amarr battleship problems next please? A megathron can fit a full rack of 425 IIs, mwd, plate, medium armor rep without having to use any fitting mods at all and having enough cpu for damage mods / tracking stuff. When I try to set up my Apoc for fleets, I end up with 7 Tachs, mwd, medium rep 2 and fail to squeeze in everything because of CPU issues and have to fit an RCU2 to get comparable range and damage output to a mega or tempest. The geddon needs an mwd nowadays because of the megapulse range nerf and was clearly not balanced for it, it needs cpu love badly or we need to see a decrease in CPU use on beams. They're meant to be Grid hogs, not CPU hogs. (Yes, I do have eng / electronics / awu 5 and a -3% turret CPU implant) Agree, even with a character completely gal specced and no amarr character i can see how out of balance it is, megatrhon needs a pg decrease and the large beams and pulses need both a cpu decrease and a pg decrease to allow them to fit something remotely comparable Tempest with 6x 1400mm T2's has 70pg left so fitting mwd/plate/rep or the other 2 high slots is a problem... so i guess its rails pg if anything is the problem. Yes, tempest has similiar problems, but do remember that if I went to fit a full rack of my largest guns on the apoc (that would be 8), I have to fit 2x RCU2 and I won't have grid for an MWD, nor plate and wouldn't have the CPU to fit anything other than CPRs in the last two lows. :) I end up putting an RCU2 on my fleet tempest, because I want the MWD on there, it's a choice, even without wanting to fit an MWD, I have to put 2x RCU2 on my apoc to get 8 tachs on it. Hence why I fly a tempest in fleets with minnie bs 4 and large arty spec 1 instead of an apoc or arma with amarr BS 5 and large beam spec 4. - - One ship to jam them all, one ship to damp them. One ship to suck them dry and in the dark void gank them.
Khavi Vetali Gallente Team Americas Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:20:00 - [37] crosses fingers for Ares changes
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:22:00 - [38] Originally by: Tuxford Powergrid of Sacrilege, Deimos and Muninn increased to 1100MW, 950MW and 1100MW respectively CPU of Sacrilege and Deimos increased to 350tf for both ships Deimos is very balanced grid-wise with these changes, it's like the Thorax if you put 3 ions and 2 electrons you can fit a 800mm plate. Well done I'm happy now
GO MaZ No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:26:00 - [39] Looking good so far, although I just ran some numbers in quickfit WRT the deimos pg boost, which gives 1187.5PG at Engy 5. This DOES allow a pretty nice fitting using 200mm Rail II and a med rep II (MWD also), but still leaves you about 50-60PG short of fitting Ion II, MWD, Med Rep II and a Medium Nos. You can now fit Electron II, MWD, Med Rep II and a Med Nos though. If this is the extent of the deimos' grid boost, then it definitely needs that agility boost everyone wants As for the BC agility boost, all I can say is \o/ Member of the Ex-KSC retard-spellers club.
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:30:00 - [40] You will implement these changes immediately, or I will kill children. Orphan children. BLIND orphan children. Don't you love blind orphan children, Tux? I think you know the wise course of action, then. Unless these changes went in over DT somehow (I'm at work, can't check, but they ARE just a couple little number tweaks). If so, you win one entire internet. ---------------------------- Remember, killing a Goon isn't murder. They don't have souls.

Ampoliros Phantom Knights	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:33:00 - [41] Originally by: Tuxford Modules Inertia stabilizers give decrease in mass as well as agility and give a penalty to signature radius Isn't this a little redundant? Agility decreases = better ship handling, mass decrease = better ship handling? ------------------------------------ Tech2 Superweapon ftw:
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:33:00 - [42] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 11/10/2006 14:33:52 Originally by: Rasitiln when are these changes going to occur? I want to know too. It can be the difference between winning or losing hundreds of millions in the market over these changes. Minor changes... yeah right. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:33:00 - [43] Edited by: Miklas Laces on 11/10/2006 14:34:22 Originally by: GO MaZ but still leaves you about 50-60PG short of fitting Ion II, MWD, Med Rep II and a Medium Nos. you can fit: 3 Ions, 2 Electrons, Small Nos and 800mm Plate 4 Ions, 1 Electron and Med Nos 5 Electrons, 800mm Plate and Med Nos (with AWU 5) 2 Neutrons, 3 Ions, Small Nos and 400mm Plate (with AWU 5) edit: 5 Electrons, Small Nos and 1600mm Plate but with a Small Rep

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:35:00 - [44] Originally by: Ampoliros Originally by: Tuxford Modules Inertia stabilizers give decrease in mass as well as agility and give a penalty to signature radius Isn't this a little redundant? Agility decreases = better ship handling, mass decrease = better ship handling? mass decrease faster speed with ab/mwd _______________

Idara Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:40:00 - [45] So now Stabilisers will make you warp faster at a gate, but will let snipers lock you faster? Think I'll stick with Nanofibers.

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:45:00 - [46] Originally by: Rasitiln when are these changes going to occur? Should see then on sisi hopefully next week and then they get ported in on TQ next static which should be Kali 1. _______________

Ampoliros Phantom Knights	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:45:00 - [47] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Ampoliros Originally by: Tuxford Modules Inertia stabilizers give decrease in mass as well as agility and give a penalty to signature radius Isn't this a little redundant? Agility decreases = better ship handling, mass decrease = better ship handling? mass decrease faster speed with ab/mwd But nanofibers increase your base ship speed, handling, and MWD/AB speed (by increasing base, yes?); whereas the new inertial stabs will increase handling and MWD/AB speed only. Is the inertial stab going to be much better at improving handling/MWD/AB than nanofibers? ------------------------------------ Tech2 Superweapon ftw:
FFGR Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:46:00 - [48] I'm assuming that all these changes are for Kali (Revelations) and not slated for a patch before it, right ? _____________________________ siggys v. 0.5
Tyler Lowe Minmatar DROW Org Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:47:00 - [49] Originally by: Idara So now Stabilisers will make you warp faster at a gate, but will let snipers lock you faster? Think I'll stick with Nanofibers. I think this is a pretty good point. Sacrificing a low to increase your speed while using AB/MWD is a pretty hefty price to pay already. Was the impact really that much over a nanofiber (which increases not only agility but base speed) that a penalty to sig was required? Considering they are to be paired with MWD or AB and thus need a mid in order to provide benefit over a nanofiber at all, an additional penalty seems a bit harsh. I'll try some fittings before offering up any more Rabble, but this is my initial impression also. J.A.F.O.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:55:00 - [50] Originally by: Tyler Lowe I think this is a pretty good point. Sacrificing a low to increase your speed while using AB/MWD is a pretty hefty price to pay already. Was the impact really that much over a nanofiber (which increases not only agility but base speed) that a penalty to sig was required? I have the same concerns, but it does depend on the actual bonuses given, doesn't it? Ideally, choosing between a nano or an inertia stab would depend on the ship and tactics, and they'd both have good uses. We'll see. ...but yeah, I think the mass decrease effect needs to be really good in order for them to compete with nanofibers, and the sig penalty needs to be fairly small. In comparison, the nanofiber penalty (less hull) is minor compared to increasing your sig, especially if you're using an MWD.

solidshot Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.10.11 14:57:00 - [51] any chance of some extra cpu and a bigger drone bay on a sythe to bring it inline with an osperey?
FFGR Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.11 15:02:00 - [52] Originally by: Skinny Boy Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr Sounds like good changes so far. Can you look into Amarr battleship problems next please? A megathron can fit a full rack of 425 IIs, mwd, plate, medium armor rep without having to use any fitting mods at all and having enough cpu for damage mods / tracking stuff. When I try to set up my Apoc for fleets, I end up with 7 Tachs, mwd, medium rep 2 and fail to squeeze in everything because of CPU issues and have to fit an RCU2 to get comparable range and damage output to a mega or tempest. The geddon needs an mwd nowadays because of the megapulse range nerf and was clearly not balanced for it, it needs cpu love badly or we need to see a decrease in CPU use on beams. They're meant to be Grid hogs, not CPU hogs. (Yes, I do have eng / electronics / awu 5 and a -3% turret CPU implant) Agree, even with a character completely gal specced and no amarr character i can see how out of balance it is, megatrhon needs a pg decrease and the large beams and pulses need both a cpu decrease and a pg decrease to allow them to fit something remotely comparable Don't forget the PG use of small lasers _____________________________ siggys v. 0.5
Eve Hel	Posted - 2006.10.11 15:04:00 - [53] nice work Tux, i specielly like the change on the nighthawk, maybe now i will even consider training on from my cerb to it
Galen Silas Gallente Digital assassins	Posted - 2006.10.11 15:06:00 - [54] I am seriously loving that deimos pg bonus, it needed it fora very long time, and to make BC's more agile is also sweet
Rasitiln Minmatar SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.10.11 15:08:00 - [55] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Rasitiln when are these changes going to occur? Should see then on sisi hopefully next week and then they get ported in on TQ next static which should be Kali 1. Thanks for the reply Tux --------
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.11 15:25:00 - [56] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Mitchman The Raven and Ishtar are in serious need of some CPU love. The raven can not be fitted with T2 gear without a cpu extender II (and forget about using the last to high slots if you use siege launchers). The ishtar needs faction hardeners to be able to fit a armor tank with some EW, disruptors or similar in med slots. "I cannot fit full rack of the biggest Tier2 guns/best tanking mods without sacrifices. boost ship plzkthkx"? Well, to be perfectly honest, the Ishtar has very, very, tight fitting - same goes for the Dominix. However (big however, I should've written it in bold and caps), nothing should be done to those two ships until we have seen the effect of ECM+NOS nerf. The Ishtar, for instance, struggle fitting a decent tank and cruiser sized guns (I'm not talking largest guns, I'm talking smallest guns). The Dominix can be fitted with the smallest guns and a decent setup in lows and mids, but anything larger than Electron and you need to sacrifice a lot of slots. As for the Raven, I do believe the Raven, and most missiles ships, suffer slightly from a lack of launcher alternatives. Siege and Crusie are very different from each other - or at least should be (damned precision torps!), there are no electron siege and no 425mm cruise. Then again, missiles get a +125% range bonus from skills compared to turret +25%. - Three years old
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.11 15:28:00 - [57] Originally by: Tuxford Agility of battlecruisers and command ships boosted by 20% Nighthawk's explosion velocity changed to launcher rate of fire bonus Modules Inertia stabilizers give decrease in mass as well as agility and give a penalty to signature radius <3 Inertia stabilisers seem funky, not sure if I can think of a use as of yet. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Blind Man Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.11 15:33:00 - [58] bc agility \o/ munnin and sac pg/cpu \o/ alts helios can use its mids now \o/ savage wont whine about the nighthawk \o/ but, no typhoon pg
Kel Dario Amarr Vortex. Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.11 15:47:00 - [59] Tuxford, dont you think the Deimos need a bit of agility boost as well? I think it are a bit to clumsy. The same about the zealotwannabe ship the Sacrilege. It needs a bit of agility boost as well. I know it wont fix everything that is wrong with it but hey it have to start somewhere. If you gonna change the Sacri more in the future then Sarmauls old thread about giving Khanid ships a proper role is the place to look I love the increase the HACs will get in CPU and MW. Nuff said. The agility fix for the battlecruisers is good, will it make them more agile then a bs now? One thing you forgot tough, their signature radius is almost as big or equal that of a battleship. When targeted they go boom quite fast The increase of cpu for the covert ops and the increased bonus is good. About the inertia stabs decrease in mass and signature penalty I'm not sure if anyone will use them, but let us test it first.
Cycerin Strikebeam Gallente House of Tempers	Posted - 2006.10.11 15:53:00 - [60] Quote: Agility of battlecruisers and command ships boosted by 20% If I said I wanted to have your babies.. would that really make me a creep in this situation?

Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.11 15:55:00 - [61] Would giving the Sac a 4th (or even 5th) launcher hardpoint and changing the laser optimal bonus to missile RoF or missile damage (all not just EM) be too much to ask for? --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Ather Ialeas Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.11 16:09:00 - [62] OMG, you're going to... BOOST AMARR?
Kyguard Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.11 16:16:00 - [63] Originally by: Ather Ialeas OMG, you're going to... BOOST AMARR? Wow.. it's a miracle! Thanks tux, great changes! === God is on the side with the best artillery.
without	Posted - 2006.10.11 16:20:00 - [64] nighthawk ftwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww wonder if it will hit 800dps woth assault missiles
Kirov VIII	Posted - 2006.10.11 16:26:00 - [65] After tachyon and sacrilege you can attack the change of ALL OTHERSSS amarr ships !!!
Tehyarec Silverleaf Foundation	Posted - 2006.10.11 16:29:00 - [66] Some nice changes indeed. Since everyone's making this their personal wishlist, I guess I could jump in on the bandwagon this time around. Personally I wish the interceptors with just two midslots (I myself can fly Ares and Claw) would receive a third midslot, to make them more viable. Wouldn't hurt Wolf & Enyo either. Even if it means sacrificing a lowslot in each case. Frigs often need midslots more anyway (I just love Stiletto's 4 midslots!). Face it, especially interceptors with two midslots just don't really work that well Many people also seem to pick Jaguar over Wolf these days, probably in large part for the extra midslots. Wolf would need more CPU if given a midslot, though it wouldn't hurt even as it is, it seems to run out of CPU faster than most other ships. Grid-wise Ares and Stealth Bombers could-use a boost, as others have also said. While even the agility boost for BCs is excellent and way late in coming, I still there was a sig radius decrease as well, for their size parameters compared to cruisers and BSs the sig radius is just too high.
Farjung Gallente TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.11 16:38:00 - [67] Originally by: Tuxford CPU of Anathema, Helios and Cheetah increased to 280tf, 290tf and 275tf respectively Cheetah love \o/ Quote: bonus of covert ops ships changed so it reduces cpu need of covert ops cloaking device from 98% to 100% What's this mean? With covert ops 5 you already get a 100% cpu reduction, not sure what this change will do ¼_¼ --- Wave of Mutilation 2
OrangeAfroMan Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.10.11 16:43:00 - [68] Originally by: Farjung Originally by: Tuxford CPU of Anathema, Helios and Cheetah increased to 280tf, 290tf and 275tf respectively Cheetah love \o/ Quote: bonus of covert ops ships changed so it reduces cpu need of covert ops cloaking device from 98% to 100% What's this mean? With covert ops 5 you already get a 100% cpu reduction, not sure what this change will do ¼_¼ Make it not require anyone who dreams of flying cov ops to get cov ops 4 before undocking :) Gronsak is Tux's angry alt.
Shirazz	Posted - 2006.10.11 16:48:00 - [69] Where does it say they will boost amarr?
Crellion Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2006.10.11 16:48:00 - [70] hehe I just cant help myself replying too... 1) HACs: Deimos needed love, Sacri needed some love, Munnin needed love? I d say give the Deimos a bit of agility as well and the changes are fair. 2) BC and BCII changes... what can I say? Bravo!!!! especially with tier Iis coming through and Nightmare being so useless... again hear me say it: Bravo!!!!!!!!!

SavageThrash 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.11 16:49:00 - [71] Well tux if your read back this far: I want to say thanks to tux (and all the other devs that help and havent shown there faces :) ) for putting up with all the whining from me and many others on the forums about some of these now addressed issues. It is greatly appreciated and sorry for all the flack i have given you guys, you really do read all the posts in those 20 page long threads coughnighthawkthreadcough and you still listen to the players :) its nice to see that. Thats the one thing thats made me stay with eve so long. Keep up the great work guys. Savage snip Please do not discuss moderation in your signature -Eldo Woah^^^
Deros Minmatar Black Omega Security The OSS	Posted - 2006.10.11 16:50:00 - [72] muninn really needed that pg increase, hopefully now it will rock more <3 D
Selim Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.11 16:53:00 - [73] Yay! More stuff to fix, though, like the autocannon tempest.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.11 16:56:00 - [74] Originally by: Selim Yay! More stuff to fix, though, like the autocannon tempest. Also please consider giving 500-1000 more grid to the typhoon. Completely redesign the Maelstrom. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:02:00 - [75] first. BC agility is freaking great. second. Nighthawk now inline with Astarte/Eos/Absolution/Sleipnir IMO w8g for more info!!
Idara Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:03:00 - [76] Everyone saying "boost Deimos agility"...aren't all HACs the same agility wise? Or does the Deimos actually have a different value?
Ather Ialeas Amarr	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:08:00 - [77] Originally by: Shirazz Where does it say they will boost amarr? Sacrilege = T2 Maller, Maller is Amarrian, thus boosting Sacrilege = boosting Amarr. Granted that it's just a small part of entire line of Amarr problems but hey, it's a start! I guess we're about 1/5th way there now with the ~90 pages in that one thread to get what we really want.
Ilmonstre Minmatar 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:11:00 - [78] Originally by: Idara Everyone saying "boost Deimos agility"...aren't all HACs the same agility wise? Or does the Deimos actually have a different value? the mass is not the same so mroe mass is less agility
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:12:00 - [79] Originally by: MECTO first. BC agility is freaking great. second. Nighthawk now inline with Astarte/Eos/Absolution/Sleipnir IMO w8g for more info!! Are you joking? With one damage bonus? Now Nighthawk is inline with Cerberus.
Shirazz	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:14:00 - [80] im feeling slightly noobsh lol Er i may be mistaken but.... Tux: I've been replying to the forums today. I'm just gonna list some of the smaller tweaks and changes here. That implies bigger changes are being made? You gonna tell anyone what tux?

Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:15:00 - [81] Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: MECTO first. BC agility is freaking great. second. Nighthawk now inline with Astarte/Eos/Absolution/Sleipnir IMO w8g for more info!! Are you joking? With one damage bonus? Now Nighthawk is inline with Cerberus. Do you guys EVER stop complaining? The nighthawk is EASILY the best tank of the battlecruisers (yes, it is better than the absolution).
Hakera Anari Higard	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:19:00 - [82] fair changes tbh, cant complain. any eta on assualt missiles and any CCP consensus on cloak production issues?
SavageThrash 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:20:00 - [83] Originally by: Tasty Burger Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: MECTO first. BC agility is freaking great. second. Nighthawk now inline with Astarte/Eos/Absolution/Sleipnir IMO w8g for more info!! Are you joking? With one damage bonus? Now Nighthawk is inline with Cerberus. Do you guys EVER stop complaining? The nighthawk is EASILY the best tank of the battlecruisers (yes, it is better than the absolution). Depends on your price range, to get a nh to tank about the same as a t2 absol u need to put a fair penny into it. If u went all faction on an absol it would tank better for sure. But a nh with faction and absol with t2 the nh will out tank it. t2 nh and t2 absol = absol 4tw :) snip Please do not discuss moderation in your signature -Eldo Woah^^^
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:21:00 - [84] Edited by: MECTO on 11/10/2006 17:22:24 Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: MECTO first. BC agility is freaking great. second. Nighthawk now inline with Astarte/Eos/Absolution/Sleipnir IMO w8g for more info!! Are you joking? With one damage bonus? Now Nighthawk is inline with Cerberus. noob, 5% to kinetic dmg 5% to rof, read topic. P.S> 5% bonus to heavy missile precision per level is what Tux mentioned i bet.
Acerus Malum Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:21:00 - [85] Originally by: Tuxford Modules Inertia stabilizers give decrease in mass as well as agility and give a penalty to signature radius Not to be nitpicky or anything, but you've got Inertia Stabs and Nanofibers mixed up in what they do. Nanofibers replace heavy metal with lighter nanofiber material, reducing structure strength and mass (what you've slated Inertia Stabs to do). Inertia Stabs, on the other hand, modify the ship's inertia modifier directly, which is what Nanofibers currently do.
DrakeStone Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:21:00 - [86] Edited by: DrakeStone on 11/10/2006 17:24:00 Edited by: DrakeStone on 11/10/2006 17:22:12 Originally by: Tuxford I've been replying to the forums today. I'm just gonna list some of the smaller tweaks and changes here. Nighthawk's explosion velocity changed to launcher rate of fire bonus Nighthawk: Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to heavy missile target navigation prediction and 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level Command Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to heavy missile Kinetic damage and 5% bonus to heavy missile precision per level Role Bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need I take it the bolded text is what will be replaced with the 5% ROF ?

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:25:00 - [87] To be totally clear then its the target navigation prediction bonus, that is the one that reduces explosion velocity of the missile that is being replaced by launcher rate of fire bonus on the nighthawk. _______________

Idara Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:43:00 - [88] Edited by: Idara on 11/10/2006 17:43:53 Originally by: Tuxford To be totally clear then its the target navigation prediction bonus, that is the one that reduces explosion velocity of the missile that is being replaced by launcher rate of fire bonus on the nighthawk. So... Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to heavy missile target navigation prediction and 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level Command Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to heavy missile Kinetic damage and 5% bonus to missile rate of fire Role Bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need Will be the new bonuses?

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.10.11 17:46:00 - [89] Originally by: Idara Edited by: Idara on 11/10/2006 17:43:53 Originally by: Tuxford To be totally clear then its the target navigation prediction bonus, that is the one that reduces explosion velocity of the missile that is being replaced by launcher rate of fire bonus on the nighthawk. So... Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to heavy missile target navigation prediction and 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level Command Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to heavy missile Kinetic damage and 5% bonus to missile rate of fire Role Bonus: 99% reduction in Warfare Link module CPU need Will be the new bonuses? no Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% launcher rate of fire and 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level Command Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to heavy missile Kinetic damage and 5% heavy missile precision _______________

Nir	Posted - 2006.10.11 18:01:00 - [90] 100 base PG and 30 Tf is nice on paper but.. will it really make a difference? The Sac is a totally different ship from the Deimos or Muninn - unlike those ships it never really suffer from fitting problems. Personally i'd rather see something like -700 base shield HP, +750 base armor HP and maybe 50 PG/20 Tf.

Rakeris Legio VIII	Posted - 2006.10.11 18:06:00 - [91] Awesome Tux! Love the changes. ^^ ---------- I gave up on sigs. As all the beatings are starting to hurt and leave nasty bruises.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.11 18:11:00 - [92] Edited by: Zixxa on 11/10/2006 18:12:02 Originally by: MECTO Edited by: MECTO on 11/10/2006 17:22:24 Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: MECTO first. BC agility is freaking great. second. Nighthawk now inline with Astarte/Eos/Absolution/Sleipnir IMO w8g for more info!! Are you joking? With one damage bonus? Now Nighthawk is inline with Cerberus. noob, 5% to kinetic dmg 5% to rof, read topic. P.S> 5% bonus to heavy missile precision per level is what Tux mentioned i bet. Are you agent runner? For what hell are you going to use kinetic missile in PVP? It's USELESS damage type in PVP, because almost everything is tanked as hell against kinetic. Best choice Em or Thermal, smtmes Explosion, but not Kinetic. It is still one damage bonus multiplied on low heavy missile DPS multiplied on only 6 slots => Nighthawk is still worst command ship(absolute crap). But we, Caldari, should be thankful to Tux, now our comand ship can compete with Cerberus. Wow! Btw, after these changes Eagle becomes worst HAC in Eve. Wonderful changes, just wonderful.
Eve Hel	Posted - 2006.10.11 18:16:00 - [93] Edited by: Eve Hel on 11/10/2006 18:22:01 Originally by: Zixxa Edited by: Zixxa on 11/10/2006 18:12:02 Originally by: MECTO Edited by: MECTO on 11/10/2006 17:22:24 Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: MECTO first. BC agility is freaking great. second. Nighthawk now inline with Astarte/Eos/Absolution/Sleipnir IMO w8g for more info!! Are you joking? With one damage bonus? Now Nighthawk is inline with Cerberus. noob, 5% to kinetic dmg 5% to rof, read topic. P.S> 5% bonus to heavy missile precision per level is what Tux mentioned i bet. Are you agent runner? For what hell are you going to use kinetic missile in PVP? It's USELESS damage type in PVP, because almost everything is tanked as hell against kinetic. Best choice Em or Thermal, smtmes Explosion, but not Kinetic. It is still one damage bonus multiplied on low heavy missile DPS multiplied on only 6 slots => Nighthawk is still worst command ship(absolute crap). But we, Caldari, should be thankful to Tux, now our comand ship can compete with Cerberus. Wow! Btw, after these changes Eagle becomes worst HAC in Eve. Wonderful changes, just wonderful. lol dude, Tux gives our Nighthawk a 25% to rof and you complaine ! lol i think our Nighthawk will be a mean machine with this boost, again cool work Tux
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.11 18:18:00 - [94] Originally by: Tuxford Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% launcher rate of fire and 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level Command Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to heavy missile Kinetic damage and 5% heavy missile precision I propose to remove Command Ships Skill Bonus for Nighthawk at all. Usage kinetics in PVP is rather troblesome and we are not going to war with small and pitiful frigates. So for Nighthawk bonuses are Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% launcher rate of fire and 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level Command Ships Skill Bonus: none
Aliennatives Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.11 18:23:00 - [95] Originally by: Tuxford bonus of covert ops ships changed so it reduces cpu need of covert ops cloaking device from 98% to 100% Will this apply to recon ships as well? (please say yes)
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.11 18:27:00 - [96] Originally by: Eve Hel lol dude Tux gives uour NH a 25% to rof and you complaine ! lol i think our NH will be mean with this boost again cool work Tux Yes. I complain. It is a sop. NH was total crap. It is 100% fact. I do not understand what gamedesigner are doing in CCP(nothing personal, but it is very important question). Three races get uberkilling machines, Caldari get sub-HAC. Why? Now Tuxford give to Caldari sub-HAC, called by mistake Command Ship Nighthawk, 25% ROF. Excellent, now Caldari get not sub-HAC, called by mistake Command Ship Nighthawk, but yet another HAC. Good news, because of upcoming changes one of Caldari HACs, Eagle, will become worst HAC in Eve.
MECTO	Posted - 2006.10.11 18:32:00 - [97] Originally by: Zixxa Are you agent runner? For what hell are you going to use kinetic missile in PVP? It's USELESS damage type in PVP, because almost everything is tanked as hell against kinetic. Best choice Em or Thermal, smtmes Explosion, but not Kinetic. It is still one damage bonus multiplied on low heavy missile DPS multiplied on only 6 slots => Nighthawk is still worst command ship(absolute crap). But we, Caldari, should be thankful to Tux, now our comand ship can compete with Cerberus. Wow! Btw, after these changes Eagle becomes worst HAC in Eve. Wonderful changes, just wonderful. nooblet again. please write about EM or Thermal in Amarr thread ok? that bonus is valuable and still u don't know nothing about upcoming heavy assault missles lol, just lol.. go away
Jet Collins Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2006.10.11 18:36:00 - [98] Originally by: Tuxford I've been replying to the forums today. I'm just gonna list some of the smaller tweaks and changes here. Ships Powergrid of Sacrilege, Deimos and Muninn increased to 1100MW, 950MW and 1100MW respectively CPU of Sacrilege and Deimos increased to 350tf for both ships CPU of Anathema, Helios and Cheetah increased to 280tf, 290tf and 275tf respectively bonus of covert ops ships changed so it reduces cpu need of covert ops cloaking device from 98% to 100% Agility of battlecruisers and command ships boosted by 20% Nighthawk's explosion velocity changed to launcher rate of fire bonus Modules Inertia stabilizers give decrease in mass as well as agility and give a penalty to signature radius This is all I can remember for now. Thank you Tux. One question though the Inertia stabilizers I recall you saying that they where going to be changed to reduse mass to make them faster with AB and MWD. But I also though they where going to decrease the signature raduis of the ship? or is that a different mod? Also also it isn't that what overdrives do excpet the penalty is differen't? Less Hull HP and Cargo space for speed. Over drives currently to my knowledge. Increase speed. Decrease agility,cargo space and hull HP The new Inertia stabilizers: decrease Mass wich inturn increases speed with AB and MWD, decrease in agility and increase in sig radus? No much different yes no? Pretty much a mod for indys that want to keep there cargo space? I was hoping it would be a nice minmatar mod to decrease sig Agian thanks.
Randay 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.11 18:40:00 - [99] A couple that are hopefully the ones you couldn't remember... 1. Nidhoggur bonus? 2. cloak + cyno field gen on recon ships? So the new covops cloak bonus goes 98%, 98.5%, 99%, 99.5%, 100%? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Originally by: Reddari Now just be nice before I start to make life for the BOB devs (yes you have some) harder by exposing their player characters.
SasRipper Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.11 18:51:00 - [100] /me hugs tux My deimos wont be gimped :P My brutix wont be himped :P And my cheetah will work Originally by: Santiago Cortes Please don't derail your own thread.

Imperil Northern Intelligence	Posted - 2006.10.11 18:57:00 - [101] Dear Tuxford, In the old days ships had to struggle to fitt their race best weapons. I remember when fitting out an Apocalypse, you could barely fitt 4 of them and have a decent _shield_ tank. To actully fitt a full rack of 8 Tachyons you would have to sacrifice most, if not _all_ of you're lowslots. These days it seems that you are directing each and every ship to be able to fitt a full rack of their best weapons without much complication. I believe that is a wrong way to go, especially since damage being dealt is a serious problem. If you would struggle to fitt a _full_ rack of you're race best kind of weapons, there would be no room for damage mods, which again reduces the damage being dealt, and you have to make a choice wether to have _full_ rack or a few with damage and/or tracking mods. Now that is what I believe, what do you believe Tuxford, and how will future balance take place?
Idara Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.11 18:58:00 - [102] Thanks for the clarifications Tux!
Garet Jackson Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.11 19:03:00 - [103] Maybe I'm not as familiar with the game mechanics as some others here, so let me just ask a quick question. Does the agility bonus for nanofibers and the current inertial stabilizers affect the rate at which a ship accelerates? Will the upcoming mass reduction for inertial stabilizers affect that rate? I'd always thought that agility affected how quickly a ship turns, while the acceleration was pretty much just a function of ship thrust and mass (possibly all mass). If that is right, then inertial stabilizers, post change, will allow massive ships to enter warp more quickly than with nanofibers. I know that from a dead stop it takes forever for more Iteron V to get up to speed, even if it's already pointed directly where I want it to go. If Inertial Stabilizers make it faster in that regard, I'm more than willing to trade a slightly larger sig radius for that, especially for Empire hauling.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.10.11 19:07:00 - [104] Originally by: Imperil These days it seems that you are directing each and every ship to be able to fitt a full rack of their best weapons without much complication. I believe that is a wrong way to go, especially since damage being dealt is a serious problem. The ships that got boosted needed the change because they had problems fitting even full racks of the midsize t2 weapons without serious compromises. Many Deimos setups resorted to an electron/ion blaster mix, because they could not fit all ions, let alone neutrons. With the new grid, it still can't fit a full rack of the best weapons without compromises, but neither is it a complete fitting nightmare. It's fine now (well, on the grip/cpu side at least). In short: I agree with your point, but the changes made were to ships that were seriously hurting and sub-par previously.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.11 19:24:00 - [105] Originally by: MECTO nooblet again. please write about EM or Thermal in Amarr thread ok? Shut up, please, carebear. You do not understand why EM is important? Go back to RUS academy(banished from Red Alliance because of cowardice) and try to finish tutorial. Missile do any type of damage. Do you understand what is missile and what is damage and what is type? Quote: that bonus is valuable ... for imperial carebears and afkers(good example - RUS Academy). For PVP this bonus is laughful. ABC of PVP, specially for retarded: Kinetic is most tanked damage among all. 5% per level damage in kinetics do not cover tanking. Quote: and still u don't know nothing about upcoming heavy assault missles Only retarded will learn any missile skill nowadays.
Khavi Vetali Gallente Team Americas Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.11 19:24:00 - [106] Edited by: Khavi Vetali on 11/10/2006 19:24:43 I know that I'm following the inertial stab changes quite closely. I always want a lowslot propulsion mod, but doesn't increase my inertia (overdrives), or compromise my hull points (nanos). I could care less about cargo space. I just want to retain my agility and keep my hull hp. As far as I understand it... Originally by: Jet Collins One question though the Inertia stabilizers I recall you saying that they where going to be changed to reduse mass to make them faster with AB and MWD. But I also though they where going to decrease the signature raduis of the ship? or is that a different mod? I've not seen mention any mod that will reduce sig radius. The inertial stabilizers will have a penalty of increased sig radius % when you fit them according to tux's post. Originally by: Jet Collins Also also it isn't that what overdrives do excpet the penalty is differen't? Less Hull HP and Cargo space for speed. Overdrives also increase your inertia, which makes your agility worse. Nanofibers cut into your hull hp. Originally by: Jet Collins The new Inertia stabilizers: decrease Mass wich inturn increases speed with AB and MWD, decrease in agility and increase in sig radus? Yup. Originally by: Jet Collins No much different yes no? Pretty much a mod for indys that want to keep there cargo space? It's a similar mod that's fer sure, but it will be much better for ships that want to receive a bonus to boosted speed, have increased agility, and be able to make full use of the hull hp for damage controls. That's a big difference in my opinion. Yarrr Originally by: Imperil Does the agility bonus for nanofibers and the current inertial stabilizers affect the rate at which a ship accelerates? Will the upcoming mass reduction for inertial stabilizers affect that rate? Afaik, agility doesn't affect acceleration, it's a mass/thrust thing. The new inertial stabs will give you increased accel.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.10.11 19:28:00 - [107] Originally by: Khavi Vetali It's a similar mod that's fer sure, but it will be much better for ships that want to receive a bonus to boosted speed, have increased agility, and be able to make full use of the hull hp for damage controls. That's a big difference in my opinion. Yarrr Yeah. Close-range combat ships, Blasterthrons in particular, are what came to my mind first. Better speed and agility while keeping all that lovely hull for your damage control to protect. Who cares if your sig is a bit bigger, you'll be MWD:ing anyway.
TheDarkForce	Posted - 2006.10.11 19:33:00 - [108] muninn love \0/
Karash Amerius Amarr O.E.C	Posted - 2006.10.11 19:37:00 - [109] Originally by: Nir 100 base PG and 30 Tf is nice on paper but.. will it really make a difference? The Sac is a totally different ship from the Deimos or Muninn - unlike those ships it never really suffer from fitting problems. Personally i'd rather see something like -700 base shield HP, +750 base armor HP and maybe 50 PG/20 Tf. The Sac does suffer from fitting issues. Typically, if you want to fit NOS and T2 lasers you have to fit the Focused variety and not Heavy. Same with CPU restrictions...making use of the 4 mid slots is very hard to do without CPU enhancers. Merc Blog
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.11 19:39:00 - [110] Originally by: Tuxford Agility of battlecruisers and command ships boosted by 20% Nighthawk's explosion velocity changed to launcher rate of fire bonus Finally.... finally... finally... After nearly a year... the gnashing of teeth has finally been heard by the powers that be. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.

Bazman Caldari Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.11 19:47:00 - [111] Nice for the Deimos, it just needs a touch of agility love, and all will be fine with the gank hac. Ishtar is fine, no boosting for that please whoever suggested that :p ----- Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. I am a Gallente Whiner. Minmatar Whining is currently in training.
Jet Collins Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2006.10.11 19:52:00 - [112] Originally by: Khavi Vetali Originally by: Jet Collins One question though the Inertia stabilizers I recall you saying that they where going to be changed to reduse mass to make them faster with AB and MWD. But I also though they where going to decrease the signature raduis of the ship? or is that a different mod? I've not seen mention any mod that will reduce sig radius. The inertial stabilizers will have a penalty of increased sig radius % when you fit them according to tux's post. I don't recal where I saw this or maybe i was just seeing thing but a while back no more than a few months ago when Tux was mentioning changes to mods and such I though he talked about a Mod that would decrease sig along with Mass and I though it was the Inertial stabilizers. Don't get me wrong I think this is a good change to a curretly usless mod however I was hoping for a smaller sig as well. I was just hoping for more love for the phoon .
Hehulk FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.11 19:57:00 - [113] Thank you very, very, very, very, very much for the Muninn changes ---------- Please choose one signature image, as per the forum rules. - Teblin
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.11 19:58:00 - [114] Originally by: Zixxa Are you agent runner? For what hell are you going to use kinetic missile in PVP? It's USELESS damage type in PVP, because almost everything is tanked as hell against kinetic. Best choice Em or Thermal, smtmes Explosion, but not Kinetic. According to the Amarr, EM is horrible thanks to EANII/DC tanks, every race does thermal and most people carry thermal drones, so everyone tanks thermal, and explosive basically doesnt do damage to invuln II shield tanks. Seems to me that kinetic is the best damage to do. I think its just adorable that every race thinks their favored damage type sucks though. Its a special level of absurdity thats just great.
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.11 20:00:00 - [115] Originally by: Tuxford Powergrid of Sacrilege, Deimos and Muninn increased to 1100MW, 950MW and 1100MW respectively CPU of Sacrilege and Deimos increased to 350tf for both ships Agility of battlecruisers and command ships boosted by 20% Nighthawk's explosion velocity changed to launcher rate of fire bonus Can I have your babies? :D ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Templer Relleg Lucid Ambition	Posted - 2006.10.11 20:01:00 - [116] Edited by: Templer Relleg on 11/10/2006 20:01:56 All fixes, but the Inertia stab is very nice. I see no reason for adding a penalty to it. Its bad enough as it is, yet i think its gonna make it a bit better. Thinking in terms of having a real spaceship, it makes no sense that the mass decreases, but the sig radius gets bigger? But i want your babies for making the BC a good ship again
Humera Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.11 20:19:00 - [117] Originally by: Tuxford Yeah but probably not until after the weekend. Hmmm, stay sober then. Regards, Humera ---------------------------------------------------- "Ruck, Tackle and Maul. And thats just getting a Beer"
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.10.11 20:27:00 - [118] WTB: Tux's babies RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Eve Hel	Posted - 2006.10.11 20:31:00 - [119] Originally by: Complacency's Bane Originally by: Zixxa Are you agent runner? For what hell are you going to use kinetic missile in PVP? It's USELESS damage type in PVP, because almost everything is tanked as hell against kinetic. Best choice Em or Thermal, smtmes Explosion, but not Kinetic. According to the Amarr, EM is horrible thanks to EANII/DC tanks, every race does thermal and most people carry thermal drones, so everyone tanks thermal, and explosive basically doesnt do damage to invuln II shield tanks. Seems to me that kinetic is the best damage to do. I think its just adorable that every race thinks their favored damage type sucks though. Its a special level of absurdity thats just great. the nabor's grass is greener symdrone haha what is most amasin is that he starts complaining in a tread about the ship being boosted with rof hehe HILARIOUS
Fenderson Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.11 20:35:00 - [120] eye <3 tux real men structure tank

Mysterlee Gallente 5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.11 20:35:00 - [121] Edited by: Mysterlee on 11/10/2006 20:35:54 Woo! Deimos and BC changes FTW! Now can you change the Enyo a bit? I'd like to see a low slot swapped to a mid and the assault ship skill bonuses changed to 10% falloff and 5% damage per level. It'd be nice to have proper blaster ship bonuses and the ability to use a web.
Chode Rizoum Minmatar Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.11 20:41:00 - [122] Dude Tuxford where is the nidhoggur fix... cmon man
Rasitiln Minmatar SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.10.11 20:49:00 - [123] ID like to see a fighter speed bonus, or tracking bonus on the minmatar carriers --------
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.11 20:50:00 - [124] I want bhaalgorn's bonus applied to neutralizers as well Sig is not eve related Eve related? Copyright of ISD?
Rasitiln Minmatar SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.10.11 21:02:00 - [125] Originally by: Blind Man if it hasent been asked already... # bonus of covert ops ships changed so it reduces cpu need of covert ops cloaking device from 98% to 100% does this apply to recons as well? I was thinking the same but some how I dont think it does --------
Blind Man Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.11 21:02:00 - [126] if it hasent been asked already... # bonus of covert ops ships changed so it reduces cpu need of covert ops cloaking device from 98% to 100% does this apply to recons as well?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.11 21:41:00 - [127] Well, Tuxford, I won't be asking about things I'm not sure you guys are working on, but do you have an ETA on the next tidbit about the new ships is coming out? Particulary the BC info. Also, while we won't necessarily be able to fly the new ships, will we be able to view the stats when Kali is loaded onto SiSi? - Three years old
Cookie Snatcher Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.11 21:45:00 - [128] damn, seems that tux missed some important stuff. 1) fix TACTICAL SHIELD MANIPULATION SKILL 2) fix VULTURE-s targeting range 3) release more info on assault rockets and add 7th missile slot for NIGHTHAWK to bring it closer to other command ships.
momotaro Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.11 21:45:00 - [129] great news indeed !! ()() The nail that stands out gets hammered.
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.11 21:49:00 - [130] Originally by: Ithildin will we be able to view the stats when Kali is loaded onto SiSi? Even if theyre not shown on the market when Kali 1 goes live on SISI, just plug this into your IGB to get ShowInfo links for all the new ships (and a few more odd ones beside) http://www.eve-files.com/media/0603/ships.txt ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!

Kldraina	Posted - 2006.10.11 22:04:00 - [131] So, if Inertial stabilizers increase sig radius, and Shield extenders increase sig radius, just how large can the sigs get? I'm really curious now. My old record was a Scorpion with about 600 sig, but that was just for having 8 Large Shield Extenders.
Ksayeni	Posted - 2006.10.11 22:12:00 - [132] Edited by: Ksayeni on 11/10/2006 22:12:49
Luc Daumier Gallente Contention Inc	Posted - 2006.10.11 22:15:00 - [133] Edited by: Luc Daumier on 11/10/2006 22:15:32 I did a bit of testing on ship agility just now (mostly so I could compare the current BC agility to BC agility afte the tuneup) and I found something pretty strange (imho). Please Tux, take a look at this and clear this issue up, would be very appreciated. Klick here
Wat0721 GalacTECH Unlimited	Posted - 2006.10.11 22:53:00 - [134] ...Tux h4x my <3. Q: Isn't in-warp speed determined by a ship's mass? And...if it is... Does this mean that if I put enough inertial stabs on my stabber I can finally warp faster than other cruisers? Answerfastkkluvuthxbai. --- ECM Fix
Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.11 22:54:00 - [135] A nice start, but there's a lot more to be fixed. Ares, Raptor and Nemesis to name a few... ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Kaathar Rielspar Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.11 23:08:00 - [136] <3 Tux excellent changes all round ____________________ Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe Originally by: Eximius Josari If BS Sized HACs would be overpowered, what are HACs? Overpriced Nos victims.
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.11 23:09:00 - [137] Good stuff! This is a few steps in the right directionÖ. ---
Jonay	Posted - 2006.10.11 23:40:00 - [138] It's amazing to see people talking to a dev like another player, if someone do that in WOW he'll surely get banned from the game and in next path he'll surely would find his dead body with a lance in his ass at the entrance of stromwind with a letter that say "don't talk to devs".
ElCoCo Gallente KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.10.11 23:45:00 - [139] Yay for covert ops cpu tweaks.... having an anathema on my alt is a nightmare Doesn't seem like enough for the deimos. I still don't see myself using it in anything else other than npc'ing... at least with it's current price.
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.11 23:49:00 - [140] Good start as others have said. Just a few things: Muninn grid upgrade very much needed, however, even with AWU 4 it's still impossible to fit it with 650 II and a medium armor rep without using a fitting mod if you put even assault launchers in the other 2 high slots. You run about 30 grid short. It's somewhat annoying to realize that minnie pilots have to get AWU 5 to get the fittings they like even if they don't plan on piloting a dread. Typhoon needs armor and shield amounts reversed. Bellicose needs serious help, specifically more grid, lock range needs to be increased so it can actually be used at long range without a sensor booster, and it needs to be able to be armor tanked since mids should have target painters in them. The lock range of the bellicose is identical to the vigil and that's got to be an oversight or screwup of some kind. Ares needs more grid. 38 grid/125 CPU would be interesting. Raptor needs more grid, and bonuses need changing so that it works as a turret platform. Something else I noticed since I did the post in my sig is that for a 13.5 AU warping interceptor, it's also abnormally slow - slower than the crow in fact. Stealth bombers need some serious looking at. Not even addressing the fact that fitting one runs about 60m, they all are seriously low on powergrid and CPU. The nemesis is the worst, since after fitting 2 cruise launchers on it you have 2.5 grid free - that with AWU 4. Also, even though they have 11 slots just like all other T2 frigs, since one is always needed for the super expensive cloak so the ship can actually work as designed, in effect they only end up with 10. The warp range of these ships is also pathetic, mainly due to the fact they warp at battleship speeds. Many good suggestions/threads around on how to fix these, look at mine why don't you :) Sacrilege should get some khanid type thinking like the vengeance got. Specifically, it would end up as a better ship if the missile ROF bonus returned and the laser optimal went away, and got 4/4 turret/launcher slots. Certianly less cookie cutter than what you see now for sure. Nighoggur needs bonus rethinking. I'm guessing that even the not-so-loved shield boost bonus would be better recieved than 2 remote repair bonii. Hel ofc same thing. All I can come up with, at the moment :) Raptor and Ares Fix

Zyrla Bladestorm Minmatar Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.10.12 00:09:00 - [141] Edited by: Zyrla Bladestorm on 12/10/2006 00:15:15 Oh thank Tuxford! Some much needed changes :) I tried to fit a cheetah with no cloak, a probe launcher and a few low fitting mods a couple days ago .. needed 2x Co-Proccessor II and a micro auxiliary power core in the end, definetely glad to see it will be *****ble without wasting all the low slots now . ----- Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.10.12 01:04:00 - [142] Edited by: Tasty Burger on 12/10/2006 01:03:49 sry
Idara Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.12 01:15:00 - [143] Originally by: Wat0721 ...Tux h4x my <3. Q: Isn't in-warp speed determined by a ship's mass? And...if it is... Does this mean that if I put enough inertial stabs on my stabber I can finally warp faster than other cruisers? Answerfastkkluvuthxbai. Uh...no...on all counts...
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.12 01:18:00 - [144] Originally by: Chode Rizoum Dude Tuxford where is the nidhoggur fix... cmon man QFT After using my Nidhoggur heavily in the McFix invasion of G-7 I can say without a doubt I'd rather have been in a Thanatos. You'd make 3 of my corp members very happy with a 7.5% Tracking Bonus to fighters. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Denrace Amarr Psykotic Dreams Barracudas.	Posted - 2006.10.12 01:58:00 - [145] Im pretty disappointed there is no decent change in the Sacrilege... Its STILL a crap ship that does a Zealots job, but worse. Since Recon Ships have come out, Sacrileges are a joke. There is NO reason to fly one over a Curse, skill permitting. Its a HAC! Make it have a ROLE besides some seemingly randomly assigned, ill-concieved bonuses and completely generic slot layout. Tank you say? Screw that - wheres the armour HP and Rep Amount bonuses?!?! Make it USEFUL. Den ________________________________________
natashii Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2006.10.12 03:26:00 - [146] Oh gawd whatever you do, make the nighthawk what it should be which is....'sexier'. # Agility of battlecruisers and command ships boosted by 20% # Nighthawk's explosion velocity changed to launcher rate of fire bonus That will make me love you and my bebe more. ============================== lolol old sig had to go...this will have to do
Tareen Kashaar eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.12 04:25:00 - [147] Yay, Sacrilege boost! \o/ Now... jumps on the wishlist bandwagon How about swapping the Retribution's 5th high slot for a 2nd mid? Pretty please? puppy dog eyes Cheers :) --- WTS: Forum Signatures, 30mil a piece. Evemail me!
BlackHorizon Caldari Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.10.12 04:33:00 - [148] The sacrilege is still crap. Although the 20% bonus to agility to BCs is nice, I think it's nowhere enough -- fit 2 nanos on a BC and you'll find it's still quite slow. Nanogeddons/nanophoons will still be faster than BCs and do more dmg/tank better.
Wrayeth Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.12 04:41:00 - [149] Edited by: Wrayeth on 12/10/2006 04:43:58 Originally by: Tuxford Powergrid of Muninn increased to 1100MW <3 Oh, can the grid of the cynabal get an increase to put it inline with the rupture while you're at it? Thanks. :) Quote: Agility of battlecruisers and command ships boosted by 20% Hells yeah! I knew there was a reason I was training battlecruiser 5! Quote: Nighthawk's explosion velocity changed to launcher rate of fire bonus Excellent. Now I'm going to have to train Caldari cruiser 5 once I finish getting the skills for my sleipnir so I can fly the nighthawk, too. Tux ftw! -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.12 05:16:00 - [150] Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr Sounds like good changes so far. Can you look into Amarr battleship problems next please? A megathron can fit a full rack of 425 IIs, mwd, plate, medium armor rep without having to use any fitting mods at all and having enough cpu for damage mods / tracking stuff. When I try to set up my Apoc for fleets, I end up with 7 Tachs, mwd, medium rep 2 and fail to squeeze in everything because of CPU issues and have to fit an RCU2 to get comparable range and damage output to a mega or tempest. The geddon needs an mwd nowadays because of the megapulse range nerf and was clearly not balanced for it, it needs cpu love badly or we need to see a decrease in CPU use on beams. They're meant to be Grid hogs, not CPU hogs. (Yes, I do have eng / electronics / awu 5 and a -3% turret CPU implant) Shouldn't you be using Mega Beams for the comparison? P.S. 1600mm Howitzer Artillery please!;) D.S. "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14)

Sadist Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.10.12 05:37:00 - [151] Originally by: Tuxford I've been replying to the forums today. I'm just gonna list some of the smaller tweaks and changes here. Comments in orange. Ships Powergrid of Sacrilege, Deimos and Muninn increased to 1100MW, 950MW and 1100MW respectively Only about a year too late, than the changes should have been implemented. How hard was it to alter 3 values in the game? CPU of Sacrilege and Deimos increased to 350tf for both ships Except Deimos is FINE on CPU. What it needs is either a mass change or a speed boost - you still think it should be the slowest hac in the game? Agility of battlecruisers and command ships boosted by 20% So now plated HAC's are going to have same or worse agility than the command ships? In other words you're nerfing HAC's even more. Brilliant move. Nighthawk's explosion velocity changed to launcher rate of fire bonus Doubt it'll help the horrible dps it puts out and the lock range... Modules Inertia stabilizers give decrease in mass as well as agility and give a penalty to signature radius How big of a penalty? òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.
That One	Posted - 2006.10.12 07:31:00 - [152] That's a great point and I hadn't really looked at Command Ship targeting ranges before - is there a reason why they're all really horrible? ----------
Serj Darek Minmatar Mentally Unstable Enterprises	Posted - 2006.10.12 08:01:00 - [153] Hooray! Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes It contains my ingame name and corp ticker - Serj
CherniyVolk	Posted - 2006.10.12 08:49:00 - [154] Edited by: CherniyVolk on 12/10/2006 08:51:47 Edited by: CherniyVolk on 12/10/2006 08:50:50 Thanks for the PG boost. \o/ hugs, and all that stuff. I hope one of the things you forgot was agility boost for the Deimos! o/ The other day, a corp mate and I did a 35KM standoff in a Munin and a Deimos. He could have killed my Deimos every time before I could get close enough to use blasters. That's only 35KM... It's a big problem for the Deimos, it's not even top end speed it is the ship's poor acceleration/agility. Maybe, the ability to top out max speed, from stand still, a few seconds before the MWD recycles? Seriously, the Deimos is like a Mustang with a supercharger, but the stock clutch is badly worn. Please, make it handle like a BMW, with an three point drag racing clutch! (such clutches can't be 'feathered' they are either engaged or not... zoom zoom!) pweeeeze! :)
Hectaire Glade Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.10.12 09:10:00 - [155] The BC agility change is just excellent, it may finally move this ship class into active use, rather than being a training stepping stone to BS. Excellent decision. Thanks Tux for listening to the community and taking action.
Aloysius Knight Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.12 09:11:00 - [156] Tux ive noticed some changes you missed in your first post so here they are * Power grid of typhoon has been increased by 1000Mw to 13500Mw Armour and shield on typhoon has been swaped around, will now be 4969 armour and 4375 for shield Nidhoggur Bonuse has been changed to 7.5% to fighter tracking per lvl All capital ships have had their hp boosted by 400% capital repair mods are affected by gang mods
Flitz Farseeker Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.12 09:17:00 - [157] I've only recently moved up to a Brutix and I have to say that it handles way worse than my Iteron III industrial, so a big YAY! to the devs. Not sure about the changes to inertial stabs - they certainly need some attention. I know I haven't fitted them to any of my ships instead of nanofibers, so will need to wait and see what the numbers are.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.12 09:21:00 - [158] Edited by: Ithildin on 12/10/2006 09:22:22 Originally by: Sadist Originally by: Tuxford I've been replying to the forums today. I'm just gonna list some of the smaller tweaks and changes here. Comments in orange. Ships Powergrid of Sacrilege, Deimos and Muninn increased to 1100MW, 950MW and 1100MW respectively Only about a year too late, than the changes should have been implemented. How hard was it to alter 3 values in the game? It's easy to change three values. To evaluate whether they should be changed is a lot harder and actually takes time - and I'm not talking popular opinion here. Originally by: Sadist Originally by: Tuxford CPU of Sacrilege and Deimos increased to 350tf for both ships Except Deimos is FINE on CPU. What it needs is either a mass change or a speed boost - you still think it should be the slowest hac in the game? It's not too kind on CPU, either. I can agree that it needs at least Thorax speed traits, though. The damage output isn't high enough to merit the sluggishness - it'd need another damage bonus for that. Originally by: Sadist Originally by: Tuxford Agility of battlecruisers and command ships boosted by 20% So now plated HAC's are going to have same or worse agility than the command ships? In other words you're nerfing HAC's even more. Brilliant move. The Astarte had an agility value of 14.85 before skills The Astarte will have an agility value of 11.88 before skills The Deimos by comparison has an agility value of 7.8 before skills Agility value is calculated as megatonnes times agility rating. So instead of the Astarte being twice as cumbersome as the Deimos, it will only be half as cumbersome. Originally by: Sadist Originally by: Tuxford Nighthawk's explosion velocity changed to launcher rate of fire bonus Doubt it'll help the horrible dps it puts out and the lock range... I calculated the dps of a Nighthawk to be around 580 with two damage mods (take or give due to stacking nerf). Each Nighthawk just recieved a +33.3% dps bonus, landing the Nighthawk at 774 with two damage mods, which is a very respectable damage for a ship that's got an 84.375km maximum operational range without being tied to any specific damage type. You can compare that to the Astarte's damage at max range 40km (where the hit probability is about 10%). * using T1 ammo, of course! Originally by: Sadist Originally by: Tuxford Modules Inertia stabilizers give decrease in mass as well as agility and give a penalty to signature radius How big of a penalty? Well, since we don't know the benefits, either, why not ask for complete stats? Edit: Wrong decimal sign used. - Three years old
without	Posted - 2006.10.12 09:25:00 - [159] Originally by: Tuxford no Battlecruiser Skill Bonus: 5% launcher rate of fire and 5% bonus to all shield resistances per level Command Ships Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to heavy missile Kinetic damage and 5% heavy missile precision you have just given the caldari race a bigger iwin button than the raven Setup: 6x heavy launcher t2 : 1x small neutron blaster t2 [or drop the stabs for dcu and u can get a medium nosf on here] large t2 booster, 2x invol t2, 20km, [last slot is optional but id go with large t2 extender] 2x stab, 2x dmg mods, 1x dcu Std missiles sig[max skills]: 70.3125m Exp velocity: 1125mps 150dmg High precision missiles: sig [max skills]: 28.125m Exp velocity: 1500mps 150dmg High dmg missiles: sig [max skills]: 84.375m Exp velocity: 1125mps 180dmg with high dmg missiles you get about 2150 burst damage [basicly you totally *****any t1 crusier in two shots.] so you do 600 +DPS inc drones, at 54km or can hit up at 85km if you use standard ammo. and with your digh dmg heavy missiles having 84.375sig you dont need any painter to even hit the smallest sig crusier for full dmg. this ship will be sooo much better than the cerb at agent whoring [the sig of missiles will kill smaller targets much faster, and its high dps and better thank.] now you have handed the caldari a 600DPS machine that can do this upto 50km + while having the BEST tank [60% on EM, over 80% on the others!] AND TWO STABS. should the rest of us quit or train caldari im stuck on that one. im going to be taking the quit route though! gl to you
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.12 09:30:00 - [160] Quote: so you do 600 +DPS inc drones, at 54km or can hit up at 85km if you use standard ammo Rotfl... And i do 600dps (700 with better skills) at 7,5km with Absolution... But hey, missiles are balanced and are as easy to counter as turrets...

without	Posted - 2006.10.12 09:36:00 - [161] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Quote: so you do 600 +DPS inc drones, at 54km or can hit up at 85km if you use standard ammo Rotfl... And i do 600dps (700 with better skills) at 7,5km with Absolution... But hey, missiles are balanced and are as easy to counter as turrets... yeh ill eat your absol every day of the weak in my blasterthron, your hitting me with EM mostly and i got 80% EM resistant. i can heavy neut you or heavy nosf you to shut down your guns/tank. you only go 7.5km, he gets 10x the range. he can also swap one stab for a 3rd dmg mod giving him another 10% damage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! he has a better tank!! he has MORE damage [since i stated 600dps with 2 dmg mods, that will get the 650dps with 3dmg mods which he can fit EASY and still have +1 stab] he has an extender which you do not! thanks for making the caldari no1 on every ship tux, and just wait for assault missiles i bet we see that dps uped by 30-50% and with a range of 25km+ you have just given the caldari spec char of eve the BESTTTTT agent whoring ship, and imo the BEST CS for gangs and a dam good one for solo work
Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.10.12 09:50:00 - [162] omfg, what are you guys smoking? With my maxed missile skills i still get around 400 dps of kinetic damage on nighthawk with 2 bcs II. That will leave me with heavily gimped tank with no tackling abilities.
without	Posted - 2006.10.12 10:00:00 - [163] Originally by: Kamikaaazi omfg, what are you guys smoking? With my maxed missile skills i still get around 400 dps of kinetic damage on nighthawk with 2 bcs II. That will leave me with heavily gimped tank with no tackling abilities. lies! also add 33.33% from the "new" bonous you are getting!!! which would give "your" nighthawk 400*1.33333 = 533.33DPS + drones which gives it the 600+ DPS on top of that, your tank is definitly the best of the command ships! you can fit 2x invol t2, large extender t2, large t2 booster, 20km. [or swap that ext for a amp or cap injecter] in lows u can fit 3BCU t2 and 1DCU and 1 stab!! that gives you 650+DPS at 55+KM!!!!!!! with missiles of sig 84.3m [ie full dmg to all crusiers without a web or target painter! and with percision missiles u crap all over smaller craft] thanks again tux !
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.12 10:01:00 - [164] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 12/10/2006 10:04:47 Originally by: Kamikaaazi omfg, what are you guys smoking? With my maxed missile skills i still get around 400 dps of kinetic damage on nighthawk with 2 bcs II. That will leave me with heavily gimped tank with no tackling abilities. 1. we are talking abt Nighthhawk with ROF bonus (33% do DPS at lvl5 - considering 5% ROF increase per lvl) so your 400 suddenly becomes 530 2. on my abso i have tank + gank, with NO tackling at all. 3 mids dont help it, and injector on cap heavy ship is a must. 3. its still the difference in range - with pulse abso i can hit at abt 25km tops (22 optimal) with scorch, where your 2 damage mods ship (i also have 2 dmg mods) outranges it and hits heavier. TBH i'd like to see damage graphs. Anyone up to the task? EDIT: As for changes. The sacri boost could be transferred to othe ships that needs it WAY more: OMEN. Sacri is not that hard to fit compared to amarr tier2 gankcruiser...
Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.10.12 10:02:00 - [165] that 400 is allready WITH ROF bonus and DRONES! Do the math yourself if you dont believe it.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.12 10:05:00 - [166] Originally by: Kamikaaazi omfg, what are you guys smoking? With my maxed missile skills i still get around 400 dps of kinetic damage on nighthawk with 2 bcs II. That will leave me with heavily gimped tank with no tackling abilities. With 3 bcus you get 400dps with okish skills and t1 missiles. Which is comparable to railstarte with 3x dmg mods and antimatter(cca 450). Only thing is that ... fubared rails hits nothing and have range of something like 20km+20km falloff. Dual web + not aligned 4tl. /trains caldari cruiser lvl5. Sig is not eve related Eve related? Copyright of ISD?
Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.10.12 10:10:00 - [167] Originally by: without on top of that, your tank is definitly the best of the command ships! you can fit 2x invol t2, large extender t2, large t2 booster, 20km. [or swap that ext for a amp or cap injecter] in lows u can fit 3BCU t2 and 1DCU and 1 stab!! that wont fit, tho you could use named but then you got 1 empty high slot. Arent command ships supposed to use gang boost modules? Am i the only one whos trying to fit those in their setups?
without	Posted - 2006.10.12 10:21:00 - [168] Edited by: without on 12/10/2006 10:25:32 Edited by: without on 12/10/2006 10:22:53 Originally by: Kamikaaazi that 400 is allready WITH ROF bonus and DRONES! Do the math yourself if you dont believe it. then one of these things is happening right now 1: your full of bull**** OR 2: your client is bugged 3: your skills are very low and you are talking about t1 missiles in a t1 launcher 4: maybe you are not looking at high dmg t2 missiles? i think the likelyness of these are 1>3>4>2 simple math 180 [damage of missiles] * 1.25 [heavy missile skill] * 1.1 [+2% per lvl dmg skill] * 1.25 [kin dmg on nighthawk] * 6 [no of launchers] = 1856.25 dmg 12 [base rof] * 0.9 [2% missile rof skill] * .85 [3% rof missile skill] * 0.9 [heavy missile spec skill] * .75 [BC new skill] = 6.1965 DPS [max skills, no implants, no dmg mods] = (1856.25/6.1965) = 299.56 add in 3x dmg mod t2 gives : 58% to DPS [this is from memory so if someone could confirm ingame would be great, id do it but no access to eve atm] thus DPS from kin missiles = 474DPS 97.2DPS from 5 thermal small drones [gal drone spec 4]. gives 571.2 now you have one turret slot left. which will most definitly make up the 29DPS required to hit 600DPS!!! you where saying? Originally by: Kamikaaazi Originally by: without on top of that, your tank is definitly the best of the command ships! you can fit 2x invol t2, large extender t2, large t2 booster, 20km. [or swap that ext for a amp or cap injecter] in lows u can fit 3BCU t2 and 1DCU and 1 stab!! that wont fit, tho you could use named but then you got 1 empty high slot. Arent command ships supposed to use gang boost modules? Am i the only one whos trying to fit those in their setups? the highthawk has no need to fit a command mod, since a vulture in gang would beat its bonous! also the setup i gave [witht he t2 ext does indeed fit!!!] Originally by: LUKEC With 3 bcus you get 400dps with okish skills and t1 missiles. Which is comparable to railstarte with 3x dmg mods and antimatter(cca 450). Only thing is that ... fubared rails hits nothing and have range of something like 20km+20km falloff. Dual web + not aligned 4tl. /trains caldari cruiser lvl5. 20km range with crappy tracking, no stab astarete, much lesser tank, much lesser burst damge, much lesser range compaired to the nighthawks 80 odd sig t2 missiles or 70 odd t2, or even less with precision ones!
Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.10.12 10:36:00 - [169] Originally by: without Edited by: without on 12/10/2006 10:22:53 Originally by: Kamikaaazi that 400 is allready WITH ROF bonus and DRONES! Do the math yourself if you dont believe it. then one of these things is happening right now 1: your full of bull**** OR 2: your client is bugged 3: your skills are very low and you are talking about t1 missiles in a t1 launcher 4: maybe you are not looking at high dmg t2 missiles? i think the likelyness of these are 1>3>4>2 simple math 180 [damage of missiles] * 1.25 [heavy missile skill] * 1.1 [+2% per lvl dmg skill] * 1.25 [kin dmg on nighthawk] * 6 [no of launchers] = 1856.25 dmg 12 [base rof] * 0.9 [2% missile rof skill] * .85 [3% rof missile skill] * 0.9 [heavy missile spec skill] * .75 [BC new skill] = 6.1965 DPS [max skills, no implants, no dmg mods] = (1856.25/6.1965) = 299.56 add in 3x dmg mod t2 gives : 58% to DPS [this is from memory so if someone could confirm ingame would be great, id do it but no access to eve atm] thus DPS from kin missiles = 474DPS 97.2DPS from 5 thermal small drones [gal drone spec 4]. gives 571.2 now you have one turret slot left. which will most definitly make up the 29DPS required to hit 600DPS!!! you where saying? Originally by: Kamikaaazi Originally by: without on top of that, your tank is definitly the best of the command ships! you can fit 2x invol t2, large extender t2, large t2 booster, 20km. [or swap that ext for a amp or cap injecter] in lows u can fit 3BCU t2 and 1DCU and 1 stab!! that wont fit, tho you could use named but then you got 1 empty high slot. Arent command ships supposed to use gang boost modules? Am i the only one whos trying to fit those in their setups? the highthawk has no need to fit a command mod, since a vulture in gang would beat its bonous! also the setup i gave [witht he t2 ext does indeed fit!!!] hell yeah everybody has maxed skills with drones and missiles and are shooting at the targets that dont shoot back. You know what happens to your cap when using t2 fury missiles? Lets do the math with average pvp joe skills. 150 (missile base damage) x 1.25 (heavy mis lvl5) x 1.08 (warhead upg lvl4) x 1.20 (lvl4 command ships) x 6 (launchers) = 1458 of KINETIC damage 12 (base t2 launcher rof) x 0.9 (missile launcher op lvl5) x 0.85 (rapid launch lvl5) x 0.92 (heavy spec lvl4) x 0.75 (BC lvl5) = 6.3342 1458/6.3342 = 230.18 DPS of KINETIC damage now add 2 damage mods and you MAYBE get 400 dps with t2 drones.
Deva Blackfire DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.12 10:48:00 - [170] If you want to compare bonuses/damage always compare em at max skills.

without	Posted - 2006.10.12 11:03:00 - [171] also everyone should know the crystal implants are being changed to add shield HP insted of booster HP from kali WOOOOT NERF CALDARI
FFGR Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.12 11:16:00 - [172] Originally by: without also everyone should know the crystal implants are being changed to add shield HP insted of booster HP from kali WOOOOT NERF CALDARI Actually that would be a boost due to the shield regeneration _____________________________ siggys v. 0.5
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.12 11:23:00 - [173] So... 230 dps of kinetic damage at 60-70km before damage mods. Astarte. Similar skills. 250mm Railgun II (10 thermal 14 kinetic) * 3.3 (base damage mod) * 1.25 (medium turret 5) * 1.12 (Surg. Str. 4) * 1.2 (CBC 4) * 1.25 (BC 5) * 1.08 (med rail spec 4) = 74.84 Thermal 104.78 kinetic (per turret) 6.375 (base ROF) * 0.9 (Gunnery 5) * 0.80 (Rapid Firing 5) = 4.59 Thus: 22.83 kinetic 16.31 thermal Sum: 39.13 dps 7 turrets: 273.95 (159.81 kinetic, 114.17 thermal) (and minor rounding errors) Let's compare, shall we, kamikaaazi? Nighthawk: 230 kinetic dps at about 70km Astarte: 274 kinetic and thermal dps at about 25km Wait... Something's wrong here. Astarte does 19% more damage, however it has 65% shorter range! And that's not even counting tracking... hmm... Could it possibly be that it's a very long range weapon compared to a mid ranged weapon? - Three years old
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 11:27:00 - [174] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 12/10/2006 11:27:24 Originally by: Kamikaaazi omfg, what are you guys smoking? With my maxed missile skills i still get around 400 dps of kinetic damage on nighthawk with 2 bcs II. That will leave me with heavily gimped tank with no tackling abilities. Nope. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Hygelac Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.12 11:36:00 - [175] Originally by: Tuxford Modules Inertia stabilizers give decrease in mass as well as agility and give a penalty to signature radius Hey Tux, love the changes you've posted thus-far as always but I've a gripe about the above. Right now, nobody in their right mind would ever use this module, is the reduction in mass really going to be so significant that it needs a Sig Radius nerf to even it out? If the goal is to get this module in use again, I'm not sure if this is going to fix the problem. Of course difficult for me to comment on that without the stats ;) --- Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.10.12 11:38:00 - [176] like i care about that 75km, just gimme a weapon system that gives me 1k+ dps at 5km. Allso reduce my ship mass and increase agility and speed. Im sick and tired of hearing ppl whine about "unlimited range" for missiles. How come nonone sticks around long enough for those missiles to hit from 100km.
Arshes Nei Dark-Rising Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.12 11:42:00 - [177] Originally by: Ithildin So... 230 dps of kinetic damage at 60-70km before damage mods. Astarte. Similar skills. 250mm Railgun II (10 thermal 14 kinetic) * 3.3 (base damage mod) * 1.25 (medium turret 5) * 1.12 (Surg. Str. 4) * 1.2 (CBC 4) * 1.25 (BC 5) * 1.08 (med rail spec 4) = 74.84 Thermal 104.78 kinetic (per turret) 6.375 (base ROF) * 0.9 (Gunnery 5) * 0.80 (Rapid Firing 5) = 4.59 Thus: 22.83 kinetic 16.31 thermal Sum: 39.13 dps 7 turrets: 273.95 (159.81 kinetic, 114.17 thermal) (and minor rounding errors) Let's compare, shall we, kamikaaazi? Nighthawk: 230 kinetic dps at about 70km Astarte: 274 kinetic and thermal dps at about 25km Wait... Something's wrong here. Astarte does 19% more damage, however it has 65% shorter range! And that's not even counting tracking... hmm... Could it possibly be that it's a very long range weapon compared to a mid ranged weapon? Not wanting to interrupt your little math slugfest but did you really need to do numbercrunching to find out that heavy missiles do a bit less damage than rails but have far longer range? Pretty sure you get similar results comparing rails vs heavy missiles on a ferox, or comparing a rail setup thorax vs a caracal. Also your comparsion doesnt take into account that even though the astarte has 65% less range it still can utilize that range better due to instant hits(think 5 astarte at 40km from a gate vs. 5 nighthawk 70km from the gate). If you really are so desperate to comparing stuff why dont you compare blasters on astarte(i heard there are a few people using them ) with assault launchers on nighthawk, since they are both the shortrange weapons of the respective ships(by the logic that rails and heavys are long range). Bottomline is when two ships have the same amount of damageboni your either worrying about skills or the weapon themselves, the ships got nothing to do with it(i, like others, tend to assume CS fit atleast 1 gang module). So no offense intended and im not saying your completly wrong or something but your comparsion is not very fair imho.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.12 11:43:00 - [178] Originally by: Kamikaaazi like i care about that 75km, just gimme a weapon system that gives me 1k+ dps at 5km. Allso reduce my ship mass and increase agility and speed. Im sick and tired of hearing ppl whine about "unlimited range" for missiles. How come nonone sticks around long enough for those missiles to hit from 100km. So why the hell do you fly Caldari? If you want close range damage, train Gallente. That's how it works. You aren't allowed to do everything well with limited skills. You need to specialize. Want damage at close range? Specialize Gallente. Want long long range? Train Caldari. - Three years old
Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.10.12 11:52:00 - [179] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Kamikaaazi like i care about that 75km, just gimme a weapon system that gives me 1k+ dps at 5km. Allso reduce my ship mass and increase agility and speed. Im sick and tired of hearing ppl whine about "unlimited range" for missiles. How come nonone sticks around long enough for those missiles to hit from 100km. So why the hell do you fly Caldari? If you want close range damage, train Gallente. That's how it works. You aren't allowed to do everything well with limited skills. You need to specialize. Want damage at close range? Specialize Gallente. Want long long range? Train Caldari. so gallente should be the only race to have uber close range dps weapons? How come then amarr and minmatar allso have real nice close range dps weapon systems? All i want is a close range DPS weapon system for caldari. BTW, my main is 42m sp caldari spec char. I dont run missions and i dont build stuff. All i do is pvp. Talking about npc balance falls to empty ears.
Lygos ISS Navy Task Force	Posted - 2006.10.12 11:53:00 - [180] So, did covops users, especially Cheetar ones, train Covert Operations to V for nothing, or is that still req'd for having both a cloak and scan probe active? No good at maths. --- Private Investment should preceed Public Investment

Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.12 11:56:00 - [181] I never mentioned NPCs. My main is a 42m Gallente all-out combat (well, there was this accident which involved Astrogeology 5, but that's minor). What's your point? Yes, Gallente are the only ones that should be allowed awesome close range combat. There's drawbacks to that - they have to get close and stay close being one of them. The Minmatar close range damage can't be called awesome (suspect it's somewhere in the region of 15% less than Gallente, incidentally), but their extra systems and speed is what (should) make up for it. Amarr are a strange thing. They've not got awesome close range damage, they've got awesome mid range damage. Nearly rivaling blaster damage at twice the range. Not saying that is perfect or as should be, I am saying, however, that you trained the wrong race since you seem to want to do close range high damage. Face it, the races are and should be different and Caldari fortT is long range - NOT close range. - Three years old
Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.10.12 11:57:00 - [182] Originally by: Ithildin I am not comparing with no basis, I am comparing to what kamikaaazi wrote, essentially highlighting that his comparison is fatally flawed and that sever critical factors, such as range and tracking, are missing. Blasters can not be compared to assault launchers since the range difference is far too great in favour of assault launchers. Besides, the current assault launchers ARENT high damage alternative, they are the small-ship-poppers and low-fitting alternative. Additionally, my comparison does not take into comparison: * Nighthawk has the more preferable resistance bonus, allowing better buffert tanking * Tracking is not calculated * Nighthawk has room for another high slot module * Astarte capacitor use What I did show was: * His damage complaint is unfounded So you are saying that blaster or railguns cant hit cruisers and bigger well? Its my fault because i can only choose between 2 different cruiser class launchers when you can choose between 3 close range and 3 mid range weapon systems?
Mysterlee Gallente 5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.12 11:57:00 - [183] I agree with boosting the Deimos's agility and increaseing its speed to the same as the thorax as mentioned earlier. Also, before I forget, the Brutix could do with another 50 powergrid. With max skills it cant fit 7x ions, mwd, cap booster, mar all T2, so its either go with electrons and a dual mar tank or mix ions and electrons.
without	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:01:00 - [184] Edited by: without on 12/10/2006 12:01:44 Originally by: Kamikaaazi so gallente should be the only race to have uber close range dps weapons? How come then amarr and minmatar allso have real nice close range dps weapon systems? All i want is a close range DPS weapon system for caldari. BTW, my main is 42m sp caldari spec char. I dont run missions and i dont build stuff. All i do is pvp. Talking about npc balance falls to empty ears. the raven. 1k DPS at 55km range let alone the 5km range you are begining for oh, and u have no idea, the numbers u see tards calculating about an astarte doing 1k DPS is with MAX skills a 5% rof implant a 5% dmg implant. try flying a megathron, blaster or rail, you RUN OUT OF CAP OFTEN reducing your DPS try using a weapon that does 2k volley over your torps 5k volley, that makes a DPS differnce as for close range uberness pawnnnn DPS, id love it if your new assault missiles had a MAXXXXXXXX range of 8km with full skills. an explosion velocity of 30MPS [foring you to web a target like almost all other close range ships] for that you can have a sig on the missiles of 50 for all i care so if u web even a frig it gona die fast! oh while we are at it, if your gona get a 900DPS NH with the assault missiles, how about torps/assaut missiles/ rockets get a nice cap use, something in line with lasers and hybrids id love to see someone use a NH with webber, MWD, cap injecter, 20km and only have one slot for a tank [but you caldari will just cry and then say u cant tank]
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:01:00 - [185] Originally by: Kamikaaazi so gallente should be the only race to have uber close range dps weapons? How come then amarr and minmatar allso have real nice close range dps weapon systems? All i want is a close range DPS weapon system for caldari. Yeah, if only you could fit blasters on Caldari ships... What is this, "International Low IQ Day"?
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:02:00 - [186] Originally by: Hygelac Hey Tux, love the changes you've posted thus-far as always but I've a gripe about the above. Right now, nobody in their right mind would ever use this module, is the reduction in mass really going to be so significant that it needs a Sig Radius nerf to even it out? If the goal is to get this module in use again, I'm not sure if this is going to fix the problem. Of course difficult for me to comment on that without the stats ;) Depends on what the stats on this item is. If it's high enough It's very possible this could be a good module to use on blaster ships, helping them close range more quickly and also be manuverable enough to avoid overshoot, maintain orbit etc. So before people complain too much you should wait until you can actually get your hands on the item to evaluate it I'd say. Raptor and Ares Fix
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:05:00 - [187] Originally by: without 97.2DPS from 5 thermal small drones [gal drone spec 4]. gives 571.2 now you have one turret slot left. which will most definitly make up the 29DPS required to hit 600DPS!!! Drones are short range, you can't include them if your argument is that the ship can do 600hp/s from 75km. The Nighthawk with the new bonus (with maxed skills) will deal ~500hp/s long range and ~600hp/s short range, assuming your numbers are correct.
without	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:08:00 - [188] Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: without 97.2DPS from 5 thermal small drones [gal drone spec 4]. gives 571.2 now you have one turret slot left. which will most definitly make up the 29DPS required to hit 600DPS!!! Drones are short range, you can't include them if your argument is that the ship can do 600hp/s from 75km. The Nighthawk with the new bonus (with maxed skills) will deal ~500hp/s long range and ~600hp/s short range, assuming your numbers are correct. small drones move faster than your missiles they have a range of >50 km so why cant you use them eh?
Arshes Nei Dark-Rising Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:08:00 - [189] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Arshes Nei Not wanting to interrupt your little math slugfest but did you really need to do numbercrunching to find out that heavy missiles do a bit less damage than rails but have far longer range? Pretty sure you get similar results comparing rails vs heavy missiles on a ferox, or comparing a rail setup thorax vs a caracal. Also your comparsion doesnt take into account that even though the astarte has 65% less range it still can utilize that range better due to instant hits(think 5 astarte at 40km from a gate vs. 5 nighthawk 70km from the gate). If you really are so desperate to comparing stuff why dont you compare blasters on astarte(i heard there are a few people using them ) with assault launchers on nighthawk, since they are both the shortrange weapons of the respective ships(by the logic that rails and heavys are long range). Bottomline is when two ships have the same amount of damageboni your either worrying about skills or the weapon themselves, the ships got nothing to do with it(i, like others, tend to assume CS fit atleast 1 gang module). So no offense intended and im not saying your completly wrong or something but your comparsion is not very fair imho. I am not comparing with no basis, I am comparing to what kamikaaazi wrote, essentially highlighting that his comparison is fatally flawed and that sever critical factors, such as range and tracking, are missing. Blasters can not be compared to assault launchers since the range difference is far too great in favour of assault launchers. Besides, the current assault launchers ARENT high damage alternative, they are the small-ship-poppers and low-fitting alternative. Additionally, my comparison does not take into comparison: * Nighthawk has the more preferable resistance bonus, allowing better buffert tanking * Tracking is not calculated * Nighthawk has room for another high slot module * Astarte capacitor use What I did show was: * His damage complaint is unfounded Thats all correct what your saying, i just fail to see whats new to that. It seems with these changes nighthawk is to astarte what raven is to mega, or deimos to cerberus or caracal to thorax. Basicly the worldorder(tm) as we know it has been applied to command ships. Oh and no amount of numbers will convince me that nighthawk is superior to astarte in a meaningful way. Yes it can have a great tank, but that means your very limited on ew(only 1 med slot more than astarte), or it can have a very basic tank and still have less ew than the astarte. For me it looks like a ship for pve or small to med sized gangs where other people do the scrambling/jamming/webbing. So basicly its a raven/cerberus/caracal spinoff, you dont want it in fleets despite its oh so great range, and unless sacrificing even more of its tank it has no speedmod making it problematic moving around in roaming gangs. I guess its good for beltratting or lvl 4 missions, or sitting on a gate with a few friends, but then again you can do that stuff fairly well in a raven already ... I really fail to see why this ship is so hyped up.
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:09:00 - [190] Originally by: Arshes Nei Thats all correct what your saying, i just fail to see whats new to that. It seems with these changes nighthawk is to astarte what raven is to mega, or deimos to cerberus or caracal to thorax. Basicly the worldorder(tm) as we know it has been applied to command ships. Oh and no amount of numbers will convince me that nighthawk is superior to astarte in a meaningful way. Yes it can have a great tank, but that means your very limited on ew(only 1 med slot more than astarte), or it can have a very basic tank and still have less ew than the astarte. For me it looks like a ship for pve or small to med sized gangs where other people do the scrambling/jamming/webbing. So basicly its a raven/cerberus/caracal spinoff, you dont want it in fleets despite its oh so great range, and unless sacrificing even more of its tank it has no speedmod making it problematic moving around in roaming gangs. I guess its good for beltratting or lvl 4 missions, or sitting on a gate with a few friends, but then again you can do that stuff fairly well in a raven already ... I really fail to see why this ship is so hyped up. I agree with every single word of that

Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:12:00 - [191] Originally by: without Edited by: without on 12/10/2006 12:01:44 Originally by: Kamikaaazi so gallente should be the only race to have uber close range dps weapons? How come then amarr and minmatar allso have real nice close range dps weapon systems? All i want is a close range DPS weapon system for caldari. BTW, my main is 42m sp caldari spec char. I dont run missions and i dont build stuff. All i do is pvp. Talking about npc balance falls to empty ears. the raven. 1k DPS at 55km range let alone the 5km range you are begining for oh, and u have no idea, the numbers u see tards calculating about an astarte doing 1k DPS is with MAX skills a 5% rof implant a 5% dmg implant. try flying a megathron, blaster or rail, you RUN OUT OF CAP OFTEN reducing your DPS try using a weapon that does 2k volley over your torps 5k volley, that makes a DPS differnce as for close range uberness pawnnnn DPS, id love it if your new assault missiles had a MAXXXXXXXX range of 8km with full skills. an explosion velocity of 30MPS [foring you to web a target like almost all other close range ships] for that you can have a sig on the missiles of 50 for all i care so if u web even a frig it gona die fast! oh while we are at it, if your gona get a 900DPS NH with the assault missiles, how about torps/assaut missiles/ rockets get a nice cap use, something in line with lasers and hybrids id love to see someone use a NH with webber, MWD, cap injecter, 20km and only have one slot for a tank [but you caldari will just cry and then say u cant tank] WTB 1k dps raven. Where are you getting these numbers? 19.2 (t2 siege rof) x 0.9 x 0.85 x 0.92 (siege spec lvl4) x 0.75 (BS lvl5) = 10.13472 rof 450 (torp damage) x 1.25 (torp lvl5) x 1.08 (warhead upg lvl4) x 6 (launchers) = 3645 damage 3645 / 10.13472 = 359,655 DPS now add 2 bcs II and you get something near 500 dps. So where did you get that 1k? You must have access to jove ravens.
Denrace Amarr Psykotic Dreams Barracudas.	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:13:00 - [192] YAY FOR NIGHTHAWK FIX!!! Now all you Gallente NOS/DRONES/ECM/BEST-DPS pilots can have something to whine about for a change!! Damn right the Nighthawk pwns, and DAMN RIGHT it should do. Den ________________________________________
Arshes Nei Dark-Rising Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:18:00 - [193] Edited by: Arshes Nei on 12/10/2006 12:20:10 Originally by: without Originally by: Miklas Laces Originally by: without 97.2DPS from 5 thermal small drones [gal drone spec 4]. gives 571.2 now you have one turret slot left. which will most definitly make up the 29DPS required to hit 600DPS!!! Drones are short range, you can't include them if your argument is that the ship can do 600hp/s from 75km. The Nighthawk with the new bonus (with maxed skills) will deal ~500hp/s long range and ~600hp/s short range, assuming your numbers are correct. small drones move faster than your missiles they have a range of >50 km so why cant you use them eh? Are you people actually trying the stuff you propose here? I cant remember getting attacked by non sentry drones from over 50km ever, it just doesnt happen. I also cant remember ever getting attacked at a gate by raven/cerberus/nighthawk sitting out of sentry range(or even at 50km!!) ever. Seriously whats up? Are you aware that there need to be awefully weird cicumstances for a missileuser to actually make use of his range in a pvp situation? I simply cannot remember a single time anyone has said to me "dude get in your missile ship, we need some long range support".
without	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:21:00 - [194] Edited by: without on 12/10/2006 12:25:48 Originally by: Kamikaaazi WTB 1k dps raven. Where are you getting these numbers? 19.2 (t2 siege rof) x 0.9 x 0.85 x 0.92 (siege spec lvl4) x 0.75 (BS lvl5) = 10.13472 rof 450 (torp damage) x 1.25 (torp lvl5) x 1.08 (warhead upg lvl4) x 6 (launchers) = 3645 damage 3645 / 10.13472 = 359,655 DPS now add 2 bcs II and you get something near 500 dps. So where did you get that 1k? You must have access to jove ravens. near 515DPS with t1 torps, use rage torps [adds exactly 50% dps] giving you 770DPs now add 4medium thermal, and 1 heavy thermal t2 drone. [124.4dps from 4 mediums and 62dps] so 770DPS from missiles and 186DPS from drones. whats that make 956DPS?? oh and how about we add a 5% rof and 5% dmg implant [since you always see the blasterthtron dps stated with these implants] grand total 1057 DPS OMG JOVEEE TECH THEEEE WINNZORRRsssszzzz oh and you can chose your torp damage type, you can field stabs, you can field a great tank, your missiles use a grand total of zero cap. oh and i think we are forgetting about those alst two high slots that you can fit easy 2x medium t2 AC, adding another 50? DPs so you get 1100 DPS /me waits for you to cry about triple target painters dont bother, you dont need to be the one painting, in a gang of say 40 people, only one guy needs to paint for all the ravens to do full dmg to a BS and it will just get easier with tier 3 bs having higher sigs Originally by: Denrace YAY FOR NIGHTHAWK FIX!!! Now all you Gallente NOS/DRONES/ECM/BEST-DPS pilots can have something to whine about for a change!! Damn right the Nighthawk pwns, and DAMN RIGHT it should do. Den when was nosf galante? when was ecm galante? best dps for a big cost of range and cap! drones are far from uber!
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:21:00 - [195] Edited by: Miklas Laces on 12/10/2006 12:21:11 Originally by: without small drones move faster than your missiles they have a range of >50 km so why cant you use them eh? I assume you're talking about lvl4 missions
Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:32:00 - [196] Originally by: without Edited by: without on 12/10/2006 12:23:02 near 515DPS with t1 torps, use rage torps [adds exactly 50% dps] giving you 770DPs now add 4medium thermal, and 1 heavy thermal t2 drone. [124.4dps from 4 mediums and 62dps] so 770DPS from missiles and 186DPS from drones. whats that make 956DPS?? oh and how about we add a 5% rof and 5% dmg implant [since you always see the blasterthtron dps stated with these implants] grand total 1057 DPS OMG JOVEEE TECH THEEEE WINNZORRRsssszzzz oh and you can chose your torp damage type, you can field stabs, you can field a great tank, your missiles use a grand total of zero cap. oh and i think we are forgetting about those alst two high slots that you can fit easy 2x medium t2 AC, adding another 50? DPs so you get 1100 DPS /me waits for you to cry about triple target painters dont bother, you dont need to be the one painting, in a gang of say 40 people, only one guy needs to paint for all the ravens to do full dmg to a BS Have you acctually tried t2 rage torps? You are talking about 40 ppl gang, but what range? Lets just say a mid 100km range. How fast did rage torps fly? Thats right, 1km/s without skills. So 2250m/s on with max skills. So 44.4 sec to travel 100km. Sounds really useful. Oh, i allmost forgot. You need to tpaint your target above 1000 sig and force its speed below 150 to inflict full damage. Its up to 4 target painters depending on target BS. Allso you mentioned something about torps not using cap. I think you forgot this small detail about rage torps, they give you 20% cap recharge penalty per torp fitted. Plz try again, its still ~500dps with 2 damage mods. Not 1k+ like you are trying to say.
Arshes Nei Dark-Rising Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:34:00 - [197] Originally by: without dont bother, you dont need to be the one painting, in a gang of say 40 people, only one guy needs to paint for all the ravens to do full dmg to a BS and it will just get easier with tier 3 bs having higher sigs I was going to write a very sarcastic response in reply to that, but i dont want to be trolling. Instead tell me please why ravens are not the most common fleetships if they are such good damage dealers. Sometimes when im reading those posts about ships and numbers im not sure we are playing the same game ... nothing of it seems wrong and the numbers tend to be correct too, but your theory conclusions seem to hardly match with what i see on the server. Or are we talking about that eve-online cardgame here? /me draws a raven and pwns the opponents megathron cause of l33t damage and range advantage
Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:35:00 - [198] Originally by: Nifel Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr Sounds like good changes so far. Can you look into Amarr battleship problems next please? A megathron can fit a full rack of 425 IIs, mwd, plate, medium armor rep without having to use any fitting mods at all and having enough cpu for damage mods / tracking stuff. When I try to set up my Apoc for fleets, I end up with 7 Tachs, mwd, medium rep 2 and fail to squeeze in everything because of CPU issues and have to fit an RCU2 to get comparable range and damage output to a mega or tempest. The geddon needs an mwd nowadays because of the megapulse range nerf and was clearly not balanced for it, it needs cpu love badly or we need to see a decrease in CPU use on beams. They're meant to be Grid hogs, not CPU hogs. (Yes, I do have eng / electronics / awu 5 and a -3% turret CPU implant) Shouldn't you be using Mega Beams for the comparison? P.S. 1600mm Howitzer Artillery please!;) D.S. Tachs have the range to be compared with 425s/1400s. Megabeams simply can't reach far enough to be in the league with the other T2 guns. If you fit megabeams, you basically cut down on the amount of options your FC has. also, 1400 II and 425 II are the biggest guns, Tachyon hasn't been a special class of it's own for ages. So yes, the comparison between 1400s, 425s and Tachs is good. Check the DPS / Range etc and you'll see. - - One ship to jam them all, one ship to damp them. One ship to suck them dry and in the dark void gank them.
NeverL Enterprise Estonia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:43:00 - [199] Like OMG without. i think u've only shot ur corp mates and npc's. rage torps are utterly useless. and using drones in 100km fights is really smart, so plz add damage done by drones also into your equation. and dont take into count that rage torps screw your cap recharge and that people in fleet fights usually align. but thats just jibberish. i have 1 word for you WoW ;)
without	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:45:00 - [200] Originally by: Arshes Nei Originally by: without dont bother, you dont need to be the one painting, in a gang of say 40 people, only one guy needs to paint for all the ravens to do full dmg to a BS and it will just get easier with tier 3 bs having higher sigs I was going to write a very sarcastic response in reply to that, but i dont want to be trolling. Instead tell me please why ravens are not the most common fleetships if they are such good damage dealers. Sometimes when im reading those posts about ships and numbers im not sure we are playing the same game ... nothing of it seems wrong and the numbers tend to be correct too, but your theory conclusions seem to hardly match with what i see on the server. Or are we talking about that eve-online cardgame here? /me draws a raven and pwns the opponents megathron cause of l33t damage and range advantage they are most definitly used in small highly skilled gangs. ie you may have 2 ravens a few hacs and a few cepters those 2 ravens are much better than having 2 blasterthrons or two geddens or two tempest ect you just dont use them cos you are stuck in the past! stab/ecm/torp ravens are uber for the smaller gangs as long as its not a fleet battle, a raven is great!

Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:46:00 - [201] Originally by: Arshes Nei Thats all correct what your saying, i just fail to see whats new to that. It seems with these changes nighthawk is to astarte what raven is to mega, or deimos to cerberus or caracal to thorax. Basicly the worldorder(tm) as we know it has been applied to command ships. You are missing the point. Kamikaaazi complained about the Nighthawk, etc, I proved that his complaints were illconcieved. I'm not at all saying the Nighthawk is this or that, I am saying it'll NOT be underpowered come this change. Oh, and the Nighthawk can easily do any mission in game. The only problem it has was breaking a Mordu's Mammoth tank. - Three years old
NightmoonEagle Minmatar Matari BackBone	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:50:00 - [202] Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr Sounds like good changes so far. Can you look into Amarr battleship problems next please? A megathron can fit a full rack of 425 IIs, mwd, plate, medium armor rep without having to use any fitting mods at all and having enough cpu for damage mods / tracking stuff. When I try to set up my Apoc for fleets, I end up with 7 Tachs, mwd, medium rep 2 and fail to squeeze in everything because of CPU issues and have to fit an RCU2 to get comparable range and damage output to a mega or tempest. The geddon needs an mwd nowadays because of the megapulse range nerf and was clearly not balanced for it, it needs cpu love badly or we need to see a decrease in CPU use on beams. They're meant to be Grid hogs, not CPU hogs. (Yes, I do have eng / electronics / awu 5 and a -3% turret CPU implant) Umm forgive me if this is wrong but, the 'geddon is Tier 1, and the Tempest is Tier 2...they aren't going to be comparable. Megathron is also Tier 2 and not a comparable ship. Start comparing like-tiers before requesting modifications.
Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:52:00 - [203] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Arshes Nei Thats all correct what your saying, i just fail to see whats new to that. It seems with these changes nighthawk is to astarte what raven is to mega, or deimos to cerberus or caracal to thorax. Basicly the worldorder(tm) as we know it has been applied to command ships. You are missing the point. Kamikaaazi complained about the Nighthawk, etc, I proved that his complaints were illconcieved. I'm not at all saying the Nighthawk is this or that, I am saying it'll NOT be underpowered come this change. Oh, and the Nighthawk can easily do any mission in game. The only problem it has was breaking a Mordu's Mammoth tank. where did i complain about nighthawk? I was just trying to pull some dudes back to planet earth with their imaginable 600+ dps setups.
without	Posted - 2006.10.12 12:52:00 - [204] Originally by: NightmoonEagle Umm forgive me if this is wrong but, the 'geddon is Tier 1, and the Tempest is Tier 2...they aren't going to be comparable. Megathron is also Tier 2 and not a comparable ship. Start comparing like-tiers before requesting modifications. the tiers have no say in how good a ship is
NeverL Enterprise Estonia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.12 13:02:00 - [205] ill try to make it clear for myself now. 1k dps close range. 6xsiege torps 2x some other stuff, med nosf? 4xtarget painters and a heavy cap injector. low like 2x 1600 tung 1 dps and 2 bcs is that possible and would anybody fly it. ofcourse you can say that someone else should fit the painters but you can also ask why other pilots dont have to.
Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.12 13:09:00 - [206] Originally by: NightmoonEagle Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr Sounds like good changes so far. Can you look into Amarr battleship problems next please? A megathron can fit a full rack of 425 IIs, mwd, plate, medium armor rep without having to use any fitting mods at all and having enough cpu for damage mods / tracking stuff. When I try to set up my Apoc for fleets, I end up with 7 Tachs, mwd, medium rep 2 and fail to squeeze in everything because of CPU issues and have to fit an RCU2 to get comparable range and damage output to a mega or tempest. The geddon needs an mwd nowadays because of the megapulse range nerf and was clearly not balanced for it, it needs cpu love badly or we need to see a decrease in CPU use on beams. They're meant to be Grid hogs, not CPU hogs. (Yes, I do have eng / electronics / awu 5 and a -3% turret CPU implant) Umm forgive me if this is wrong but, the 'geddon is Tier 1, and the Tempest is Tier 2...they aren't going to be comparable. Megathron is also Tier 2 and not a comparable ship. Start comparing like-tiers before requesting modifications. 95% of my argument was about the apoc being broken for fleet setup. Then I add the part about the arma and the MWD and suddenly I'm comparing Tier 1 to Tier 2? Sorry, but this doesn't make sense to me. - - One ship to jam them all, one ship to damp them. One ship to suck them dry and in the dark void gank them.
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.12 13:10:00 - [207] Edited by: Ithildin on 12/10/2006 13:11:24 Originally by: Kamikaaazi Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Arshes Nei Thats all correct what your saying, i just fail to see whats new to that. It seems with these changes nighthawk is to astarte what raven is to mega, or deimos to cerberus or caracal to thorax. Basicly the worldorder(tm) as we know it has been applied to command ships. You are missing the point. Kamikaaazi complained about the Nighthawk, etc, I proved that his complaints were illconcieved. I'm not at all saying the Nighthawk is this or that, I am saying it'll NOT be underpowered come this change. Oh, and the Nighthawk can easily do any mission in game. The only problem it has was breaking a Mordu's Mammoth tank. where did i complain about nighthawk? I was just trying to pull some dudes back to planet earth with their imaginable 600+ dps setups. The funny thing is that it's not imaginary. Not if you dedicate and fit for it. Especially not when you take everything into account. To make the argument that 600 dps is unattainable based on skills that are far from maxed is... odd, wouldn't you say? Also, kinetic damage isn't a bad damage type. I'd actually rank it as the second best damage type after explosive damage. Anyways. I hereby declare this thread long since officially derailed Good changes, Tuxford, love them. Too bad there's always the ****-storm that is "what about my ship" - Three years old
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.12 13:19:00 - [208] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 12/10/2006 13:20:44 Originally by: Ithildin The Minmatar close range damage can't be called awesome (suspect it's somewhere in the region of 15% less than Gallente, incidentally), but their extra systems and speed is what (should) make up for it. Amarr are a strange thing. They've not got awesome close range damage, they've got awesome mid range damage. Nearly rivaling blaster damage at twice the range. Not saying that is perfect or as should be, I am saying, however, that you trained the wrong race since you seem to want to do close range high damage. I just wish the game would allow minmatar to fight the blasterboats on the battleship level by staying away from them, just like the Rupture can beat the Thorax. Even the stabber can beat a thorax. But it doesnt work on battleship level thanks to the limited range of 20k warp disruptors. Gallente totally pwns that range. I would possibly have gone gallente if I would have known how gimped minmatar close range combat can be on the battleship level. But against my own best judgement, im currently training minmatar battleship anyway, hoping they will be made to challenge the blasterthron in some way in the future. Probably a stupid move, but.. i like minnies. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2006.10.12 13:31:00 - [209] Originally by: Kamikaaazi Originally by: without Edited by: without on 12/10/2006 12:23:02 near 515DPS with t1 torps, use rage torps [adds exactly 50% dps] giving you 770DPs now add 4medium thermal, and 1 heavy thermal t2 drone. [124.4dps from 4 mediums and 62dps] so 770DPS from missiles and 186DPS from drones. whats that make 956DPS?? oh and how about we add a 5% rof and 5% dmg implant [since you always see the blasterthtron dps stated with these implants] grand total 1057 DPS OMG JOVEEE TECH THEEEE WINNZORRRsssszzzz oh and you can chose your torp damage type, you can field stabs, you can field a great tank, your missiles use a grand total of zero cap. oh and i think we are forgetting about those alst two high slots that you can fit easy 2x medium t2 AC, adding another 50? DPs so you get 1100 DPS /me waits for you to cry about triple target painters dont bother, you dont need to be the one painting, in a gang of say 40 people, only one guy needs to paint for all the ravens to do full dmg to a BS Have you acctually tried t2 rage torps? You are talking about 40 ppl gang, but what range? Lets just say a mid 100km range. How fast did rage torps fly? Thats right, 1km/s without skills. So 2250m/s on with max skills. So 44.4 sec to travel 100km. Sounds really useful. Oh, i allmost forgot. You need to tpaint your target above 1000 sig and force its speed below 150 to inflict full damage. Its up to 4 target painters depending on target BS. Allso you mentioned something about torps not using cap. I think you forgot this small detail about rage torps, they give you 20% cap recharge penalty per torp fitted. Plz try again, its still ~500dps with 2 damage mods. Not 1k+ like you are trying to say. Hmmmm... lets see, T2 torps take 44.2 secs to travel 100km? Well, I thought: Originally by: Kamikaaaazi All i want is a close range DPS weapon system for caldari. So why are you now complaining that your short range DPS weapon system doesn't work well at long range? You should be happy that it works at all compared to every other short range weapon system which is limited to short range by design. Why should Caldari get short range DPS at short range and the possibility of still hitting at long range? The same problem exists with the Nighthawk and will be made any worse if the new assault missles can hit over ~10-15km with max skills. If you want a true short range DPS weapon for Caldari then you can have it, but it should be limited to only hitting at short range if you want it to be balanced with the other short range weapons.
Fergus Runkle	Posted - 2006.10.12 13:37:00 - [210] Originally by: without also everyone should know the crystal implants are being changed to add shield HP insted of booster HP from kali WOOOOT NERF CALDARI erm .. is this true ?

Kamikaaazi	Posted - 2006.10.12 13:41:00 - [211] well, i had to bring flight time out because some ppl were screaming about how uber missiles were from any range. Close range is under 20km, with 4 painters, 1 scramb, 1 web, 4 bcs II you get 1 slot for low slot armor tank. But lets not forget, you get "UNLIMITED RANGE WITH 1.1k DPS!!!!11one"
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2006.10.12 13:49:00 - [212] Originally by: Kamikaaazi well, i had to bring flight time out because some ppl were screaming about how uber missiles were from any range. Close range is under 20km, with 4 painters, 1 scramb, 1 web, 4 bcs II you get 1 slot for low slot armor tank. But lets not forget, you get "UNLIMITED RANGE WITH 1.1k DPS!!!!11one" Would you mind if torp range was limited to 20km then? (and torps range > assault range > rocket range)
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2006.10.12 13:50:00 - [213] Originally by: Fergus Runkle Originally by: without also everyone should know the crystal implants are being changed to add shield HP insted of booster HP from kali WOOOOT NERF CALDARI erm .. is this true ? If it is Crystal implants just became even more overpowered. Slave should be armor rep bonus just like crystal are shield rep bonus.
Imperil Northern Intelligence	Posted - 2006.10.12 14:59:00 - [214] In the old days you could evade missiles by flying fast to one side just before impact. The missiles would just travel past you and go in a straight line into oblivion because it did not have the agility to move after the target fast enough. Now CCP keep telling us that a such system is not possible. Well it existed before, so it _is_ possible! Booo CCP, BOOO!
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2006.10.12 15:06:00 - [215] Originally by: Imperil In the old days you could evade missiles by flying fast to one side just before impact. The missiles would just travel past you and go in a straight line into oblivion because it did not have the agility to move after the target fast enough. Now CCP keep telling us that a such system is not possible. Well it existed before, so it _is_ possible! Booo CCP, BOOO! I'd much rather have missles limited by agility (akin to turret tracking) than explosion velocity. That way there would be some incentive to orbit a missle boat rather and you couldn't mwd directly at them without taking much damage. It may be difficult to implement a balanced version though.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.12 15:38:00 - [216] Edited by: LUKEC on 12/10/2006 15:38:20 Originally by: Azerrad InExile Originally by: Imperil In the old days you could evade missiles by flying fast to one side just before impact. The missiles would just travel past you and go in a straight line into oblivion because it did not have the agility to move after the target fast enough. Now CCP keep telling us that a such system is not possible. Well it existed before, so it _is_ possible! Booo CCP, BOOO! I'd much rather have missles limited by agility (akin to turret tracking) than explosion velocity. That way there would be some incentive to orbit a missle boat rather and you couldn't mwd directly at them without taking much damage. It may be difficult to implement a balanced version though. It's soo easy to pop blastertaranises and ACclaws ... they always do same... ram into you or start orbit at close range and thats when missiles hit . SPLAT. Next? Sig is not eve related Eve related? Copyright of ISD?
Ifni Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2006.10.12 15:43:00 - [217] I wonder if you can use those new inertia stabs on ravens... You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
Max Carlotta Minmatar Moon Rider Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.12 17:43:00 - [218] Still no love for the non caldari bombers, raptor etc... ________________________________ Dreaming about muted FW & CW since 2005
Xion Dsurion Gallente Arcana Imperii Ltd.	Posted - 2006.10.12 18:45:00 - [219] Going to love those deimos specs, but as with everyone else :( give it more agility please
GrumpyCat	Posted - 2006.10.12 19:44:00 - [220] Originally by: without Edited by: without on 12/10/2006 12:01:44 Originally by: Kamikaaazi so gallente should be the only race to have uber close range dps weapons? How come then amarr and minmatar allso have real nice close range dps weapon systems? All i want is a close range DPS weapon system for caldari. BTW, my main is 42m sp caldari spec char. I dont run missions and i dont build stuff. All i do is pvp. Talking about npc balance falls to empty ears. the raven. 1k DPS at 55km range let alone the 5km range you are begining for oh, and u have no idea, the numbers u see tards calculating about an astarte doing 1k DPS is with MAX skills a 5% rof implant a 5% dmg implant. try flying a megathron, blaster or rail, you RUN OUT OF CAP OFTEN reducing your DPS try using a weapon that does 2k volley over your torps 5k volley, that makes a DPS differnce as for close range uberness pawnnnn DPS, id love it if your new assault missiles had a MAXXXXXXXX range of 8km with full skills. an explosion velocity of 30MPS [foring you to web a target like almost all other close range ships] for that you can have a sig on the missiles of 50 for all i care so if u web even a frig it gona die fast! oh while we are at it, if your gona get a 900DPS NH with the assault missiles, how about torps/assaut missiles/ rockets get a nice cap use, something in line with lasers and hybrids id love to see someone use a NH with webber, MWD, cap injecter, 20km and only have one slot for a tank [but you caldari will just cry and then say u cant tank] Yawn.. Whats the explosion velocity of rage? 100m/s? Let me guess your gallente? And your complaining. If you can't kill caldari ships as gallente pilot, umm you need some help especially when gallente ships get hit with big ole nerf bat. Caldari ships are good for one thing, pve because you can select the damage type and don't have to worry about the npcs warping off while your torps/missles fly towards them. Caldari missiles boats aren't used in pvp. Unless your ascn and fighting bob and just like throwing away battleships.

Alex SOKOLOFF Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.10.12 21:15:00 - [221] PG boost isnt that great really, i thought about 1000-1050. Deimos needs better agility, and better speed, 190-200 m/s. its T2 Ship why its slower than Thorax ?
LOPEZ Revelations Inc.	Posted - 2006.10.12 22:36:00 - [222] nice but now the price of a night hawk is gona go sky high. its already the most expensive tech 2 bc. S0oon it will be more expensive then the cerby :( only a matter of time.
Xasz Unemployment Office	Posted - 2006.10.13 02:45:00 - [223] So much whining... can't we just LOVE the changes? They notice us Unemployment Office [NOJOB], now firing. Contact Xasz or Jaguar Warrior for details.
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.13 02:55:00 - [224] Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr Originally by: Nifel Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr Sounds like good changes so far. Can you look into Amarr battleship problems next please? A megathron can fit a full rack of 425 IIs, mwd, plate, medium armor rep without having to use any fitting mods at all and having enough cpu for damage mods / tracking stuff. When I try to set up my Apoc for fleets, I end up with 7 Tachs, mwd, medium rep 2 and fail to squeeze in everything because of CPU issues and have to fit an RCU2 to get comparable range and damage output to a mega or tempest. The geddon needs an mwd nowadays because of the megapulse range nerf and was clearly not balanced for it, it needs cpu love badly or we need to see a decrease in CPU use on beams. They're meant to be Grid hogs, not CPU hogs. (Yes, I do have eng / electronics / awu 5 and a -3% turret CPU implant) Shouldn't you be using Mega Beams for the comparison? P.S. 1600mm Howitzer Artillery please!;) D.S. Tachs have the range to be compared with 425s/1400s. Megabeams simply can't reach far enough to be in the league with the other T2 guns. If you fit megabeams, you basically cut down on the amount of options your FC has. also, 1400 II and 425 II are the biggest guns, Tachyon hasn't been a special class of it's own for ages. So yes, the comparison between 1400s, 425s and Tachs is good. Check the DPS / Range etc and you'll see. Actually Mega Beams have the same range as 1400's. Unless you're one of those weird dudes that think you should count in falloff into the range o_O. So let's say optimal to get away with any confusion. And they have only slightly worse dps than tachs. The saving grace of tachs has always been their alphastrike compared to mega beams. Mega Beam geddon = ftw for sustained fleet fights. Tach apoc = ftw for sustained fleet fights (90% alpha strike of the tempest and way higher dps). Anyway... I still want my 1600mm Howizter Artillery II!;) "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: (MIN14)
Bluetit	Posted - 2006.10.13 08:21:00 - [225] My Calculations on NightHawk After New Bonuses Can any one tell me if im right wrong Skills Cruiser 5 ROF 25% Rapid Launch 4 ROF 12% Specilisation 4 ROF 8% Missile Operation 5 ROF 10% Warhead upgrades 4 Dam 8% Heavy Operation 5 Dam 25% Command ship 4 Dam Kin 20% Modules 2x BCU ROF 18% DAM 18% Using T2 Launchers 12s ROF ROF After Bonuses 5.37s Standard Ammo Damage non kinetic per missile after Bonuses 238.95 :6x Launchers 1433.7 : DPS 266.6 Damage kinetic per missile after Bonuses 286.5 :6x Launchers 1719 : DPS 319 T2 Ammo Damage non kinetic per missile after Bonuses 286.7 :6x Launchers 1720 : DPS 320 Damage kinetic per missile after Bonuses 344 :6x Launchers 2064 : DPS 383.8 I know im not using drones in this calc but it still seems a low DPS. Or are my calcs wrong?
Gunship Amarr FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.13 11:10:00 - [226] I think the 20% agility for the BC is much needed, perhaps it should be 50%, but every little helps. So you want to join us?
without	Posted - 2006.10.13 11:17:00 - [227] Originally by: Bluetit My Calculations on NightHawk After New Bonuses Can any one tell me if im right wrong Skills Cruiser 5 ROF 25% Rapid Launch 4 ROF 12% Specilisation 4 ROF 8% Missile Operation 5 ROF 10% Warhead upgrades 4 Dam 8% Heavy Operation 5 Dam 25% Command ship 4 Dam Kin 20% Modules 2x BCU ROF 18% DAM 18% Using T2 Launchers 12s ROF ROF After Bonuses 5.37s Standard Ammo Damage non kinetic per missile after Bonuses 238.95 :6x Launchers 1433.7 : DPS 266.6 Damage kinetic per missile after Bonuses 286.5 :6x Launchers 1719 : DPS 319 T2 Ammo Damage non kinetic per missile after Bonuses 286.7 :6x Launchers 1720 : DPS 320 Damage kinetic per missile after Bonuses 344 :6x Launchers 2064 : DPS 383.8 I know im not using drones in this calc but it still seems a low DPS. Or are my calcs wrong? you are not max skilled, you need to take into account at lest Rapid Launch 5 not 4 and Warhead upgrades 5 not 4, the specs can stay at 4 if you wish and why do you not take into account drones, they add almost 100dps exactly and move at 3500+ mps!! also you have one more high slot to fill with a weapon
without	Posted - 2006.10.13 11:31:00 - [228] Originally by: Kamikaaazi well, i had to bring flight time out because some ppl were screaming about how uber missiles were from any range. Close range is under 20km, with 4 painters, 1 scramb, 1 web, 4 bcs II you get 1 slot for low slot armor tank. But lets not forget, you get "UNLIMITED RANGE WITH 1.1k DPS!!!!11one" whats wrong with 6x siege t2 : 2x medium t2 AC xl-booster t2, amp, 2x invol, heavy electro cap booster, sesor booster. 3x dmg mod, 1x cpu, 1x pg[or pdu] javlin torps for > 80km with uber speed and uber sig and uber pawn hacs and choose dmg or rage torps for uber BS dmg, where your buddys paint! and you lock much faster than most "close range bs" which dont have the room to use a sensor booster oh and dont say it dont fit cos i use that setup all the time you can do ubeeer dmg to bs close up, or switch to javelins and do uber dmg to hacs and higher at uber range
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.13 14:25:00 - [229] Well, it is good to see that you've decided to make minor changes, instead of doing rewrites of an entire table every year. That usually didnt work out. Now... Im glad youre giving the Sacrilege a bit extra. But really, extra grid? That's roughly the only thing it didnt need. It's not going to hurt, obviously. But not helping either. A tad extra CPU is usefull, ill admit. But doesnt fix anything. The Sacrilege is one of them ships that DOES need a complete rewrite of what its supposed to do. With the Zealot and Curse both ingame, the Sacrilege has lost all roles. The Muninn. This is a good change. A good tank with 650mm IIs, or 720mm IIs and a minor tank i reckon is now doable. And AC setups were already easily done so no worries there. Regarding the Covert Ops bonus. I assume thisll be: 98.4% -> 160 (From 800) 98.8% -> 120 (From 600) 99.2% -> 80 (From 400) 99.6% -> 40 (From 200) 100%? -> 0 (No change) Slightly annoyed at that, because i had Covert Ops 5 trained just for this, but i can see the point; No use flying a Covert Ops Frig without atleast Cov Ops 4 right now, and this definatly changes that. Thanks for the update.
Bluetit	Posted - 2006.10.13 14:36:00 - [230] Originally by: without Originally by: Bluetit My Calculations on NightHawk After New Bonuses Can any one tell me if im right wrong Skills Cruiser 5 ROF 25% Rapid Launch 4 ROF 12% Specilisation 4 ROF 8% Missile Operation 5 ROF 10% Warhead upgrades 4 Dam 8% Heavy Operation 5 Dam 25% Command ship 4 Dam Kin 20% Modules 2x BCU ROF 18% DAM 18% Using T2 Launchers 12s ROF ROF After Bonuses 5.37s Standard Ammo Damage non kinetic per missile after Bonuses 238.95 :6x Launchers 1433.7 : DPS 266.6 Damage kinetic per missile after Bonuses 286.5 :6x Launchers 1719 : DPS 319 T2 Ammo Damage non kinetic per missile after Bonuses 286.7 :6x Launchers 1720 : DPS 320 Damage kinetic per missile after Bonuses 344 :6x Launchers 2064 : DPS 383.8 I know im not using drones in this calc but it still seems a low DPS. Or are my calcs wrong? you are not max skilled, you need to take into account at lest Rapid Launch 5 not 4 and Warhead upgrades 5 not 4, the specs can stay at 4 if you wish and why do you not take into account drones, they add almost 100dps exactly and move at 3500+ mps!! also you have one more high slot to fill with a weapon the extra high slot is probabaly nos. so no more dps there the extra skills add very little to the dps and with the drones your looking at just above 500 less than other command ships

Amarr Citizen 13513	Posted - 2006.10.13 16:03:00 - [231] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Well, it is good to see that you've decided to make minor changes, instead of doing rewrites of an entire table every year. That usually didnt work out. Now... Im glad youre giving the Sacrilege a bit extra. But really, extra grid? That's roughly the only thing it didnt need. It's not going to hurt, obviously. But not helping either. A tad extra CPU is usefull, ill admit. But doesnt fix anything. The Sacrilege is one of them ships that DOES need a complete rewrite of what its supposed to do. With the Zealot and Curse both ingame, the Sacrilege has lost all roles. The Muninn. This is a good change. A good tank with 650mm IIs, or 720mm IIs and a minor tank i reckon is now doable. And AC setups were already easily done so no worries there. Regarding the Covert Ops bonus. I assume thisll be: 98.4% -> 160 (From 800) 98.8% -> 120 (From 600) 99.2% -> 80 (From 400) 99.6% -> 40 (From 200) 100%? -> 0 (No change) Slightly annoyed at that, because i had Covert Ops 5 trained just for this, but i can see the point; No use flying a Covert Ops Frig without atleast Cov Ops 4 right now, and this definatly changes that. Thanks for the update. Oh stop complaining. The Sac will be able to run both a gank and a tank setup at the same time now, and with assault missiles will be an awesome pwnmobile
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.13 16:13:00 - [232] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 13513 The Sac will be able to run both a gank and a tank setup at the same time now, and with assault missiles will still be a sub-standard piece of crap F1XX0r3d. ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
Eleis Machuron	Posted - 2006.10.13 16:33:00 - [233] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Regarding the Covert Ops bonus. I assume thisll be: 98.4% -> 160 (From 800) 98.8% -> 120 (From 600) 99.2% -> 80 (From 400) 99.6% -> 40 (From 200) 100%? -> 0 (No change) I would have guessed 98% at level 1, +0.5% per level to 100% at level 5.
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.13 16:46:00 - [234] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 13513 Originally by: Elve Sorrow [...] Oh stop complaining. The Sac will be able to run both a gank and a tank setup at the same time now, and with assault missiles will be an awesome pwnmobile Please do share your awesome pwnmobile setup.
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.10.13 16:55:00 - [235] No matter what they boost on the sacrilege, it will still suck **** compared to the zealot because it has a laser bonus. Give it missile bonuses, have it have an uber armor tank, and finally, it has a use. Khanid ships should = missiles.
Khadur Minmatar Spontaneous Defenestration	Posted - 2006.10.13 17:00:00 - [236] W007!11
Dupac Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.10.13 19:33:00 - [237] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 13513 Originally by: Elve Sorrow Well, it is good to see that you've decided to make minor changes, instead of doing rewrites of an entire table every year. That usually didnt work out. Now... Im glad youre giving the Sacrilege a bit extra. But really, extra grid? That's roughly the only thing it didnt need. It's not going to hurt, obviously. But not helping either. A tad extra CPU is usefull, ill admit. But doesnt fix anything. The Sacrilege is one of them ships that DOES need a complete rewrite of what its supposed to do. With the Zealot and Curse both ingame, the Sacrilege has lost all roles. snip Oh stop complaining. The Sac will be able to run both a gank and a tank setup at the same time now, and with assault missiles will be an awesome pwnmobile Did you bang your head on something hard before you wrote this? The Sac is garbage atm and minor tweaks will have very little impact on this - Its role needs to be changed fundamentally not given a quick makeover. If you think it's going to be that good - run out and buy a hundred waiting on that big price rise after the changes............
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.13 21:29:00 - [238] Ya, thats exactly my point. Does it start counting from lvl1 or from 'lvl0'. For some odd reason i got lvl0 in my head, and i cant check ingame because ive got Cov Ops 5... The numbers you posted, can you check them for me?
Randay 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.13 21:32:00 - [239] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Ya, thats exactly my point. Does it start counting from lvl1 or from 'lvl0'. For some odd reason i got lvl0 in my head, and i cant check ingame because ive got Cov Ops 5... The numbers you posted, can you check them for me? lvl 1 man, and I am 100% sure my "current" numbers are correct. How did you decide to train covops 5 without working this out in the first place??!! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Originally by: Reddari Now just be nice before I start to make life for the BOB devs (yes you have some) harder by exposing their player characters.
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.13 21:35:00 - [240] 14 Perception and 22 Willpower is how.

Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.13 21:41:00 - [241] Originally by: Elve Sorrow Ya, thats exactly my point. Does it start counting from lvl1 or from 'lvl0'. For some odd reason i got lvl0 in my head, and i cant check ingame because ive got Cov Ops 5... The numbers you posted, can you check them for me? It starts from level 1. The skill info, that is. At level 1 it's going to be 98%. - Three years old
Ishmael Hansen	Posted - 2006.10.13 23:22:00 - [242] Originally by: Jonay It's amazing to see people talking to a dev like another player, if someone do that in WOW he'll surely get banned from the game and in next path he'll surely would find his dead body with a lance in his ass at the entrance of stromwind with a letter that say "don't talk to devs". And the point is? There is a reason EVE is the best game out there, and please don't compare this to wow. :P
dalman Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.14 00:00:00 - [243] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Elve Sorrow Ya, thats exactly my point. Does it start counting from lvl1 or from 'lvl0'. For some odd reason i got lvl0 in my head, and i cant check ingame because ive got Cov Ops 5... The numbers you posted, can you check them for me? It starts from level 1. The skill info, that is. At level 1 it's going to be 98%. Same way the gang warfare skills work. 100% per level? Nope. 1-5x multiplier, not 100-500% bonus. :/ Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
Lucus Ranger Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.10.14 09:17:00 - [244] Hmm just had quick look at Deimos's new pg and what it can fit... Still can't do the 5x Ion II + Med Nos + MWD + Med Rep II without an RCU/PDU Maybe now is the time to remove 6th High Slot and make it a Med Slot? So it can fit a Cap Injector..
Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.14 09:28:00 - [245] Nice idea about the added mid slot for Deimos. Also, is it out of the question to ask for a 5th turret on an Eagle and a 6th Turret on the Vulture since that's essentially. Not additional hi-slots, just change one of the launcher points to a shared turret/launcher point and increase the grid to match. I don't think its out of the question since the Stabber > Vagabond gained an extra turret and Cyclone > Sleipnir gained TWO extra turrets. ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.14 11:30:00 - [246] Tbh giving the Sac more grid & CPU is like giving a guy with a broken leg a piece of candy for the pain... It doesn't need no fkn candy, it needs its leg fixed! Or at least some booze for the pain. Candy helps noone. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
no1knowsWho Diplomatic Disruption	Posted - 2006.10.14 11:34:00 - [247] my brut more agile?... awesome!!!
Altai Saker Omniscient Order	Posted - 2006.10.14 12:43:00 - [248] Have to agree on the sacrilege posts... This ship just does not have a role it is ummm even good at. If someone says tanking let me remind you that tanking has about 0 use to a ship that is gonna get nossed to 0 cap and probably cant even tank a battleship + heavy drones in a full tank setup.
Mo adib	Posted - 2006.10.14 13:30:00 - [249] omg tux I <3 u, BC agility--inertial stabilizer boost--and nighthawk change to ROF in one patch TUX for ruler of the galaxy!!!
Blue Rider Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.14 19:59:00 - [250] Originally by: Tuxford Agility of battlecruisers and command ships boosted by 20% Thank you thank you thank you, this is definitely a step in the right direction. BC still could use a sig drop, but Thank You

Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.14 21:17:00 - [251] Originally by: Altai Saker Have to agree on the sacrilege posts... This ship just does not have a role it is ummm even good at. If someone says tanking let me remind you that tanking has about 0 use to a ship that is gonna get nossed to 0 cap and probably cant even tank a battleship + heavy drones in a full tank setup. Nothing can tank a battleship and drones (not the battleship you are thinking of) in anything short of a capital ship. Additionally, I must point out that the problem with the capacitor is inherent in the nosferatu problem - nosferatus are just too effective. But. As stated, the Secrilege lacks a proper role. More accurately, the layout isn't very optimal for a tank. 5 slots in it's main tank isn't very impressive and just 4 more as support doesn't make anyone happy. To recap, if I recall correctly, Sarmaul's Khanid post, I'd suggest the Sacrilege be moved to missiles and that one of it's high slots migrate to become a low slot. This would significantly improve the tank - and incidentally give it a new/improved role. - Three years old
Malcolm Adama	Posted - 2006.10.15 16:46:00 - [252] Originally by: Tareen Kashaar Yay, Sacrilege boost! \o/ Now... jumps on the wishlist bandwagon How about swapping the Retribution's 5th high slot for a 2nd mid? Pretty please? puppy dog eyes Cheers :) How about swapping the Retribution's 5th high slot for another low slot please? Another mid slot and this ship will end up too similar to every other ship instead of being the gank/tank beast it could be. Leave the Vengeance as our medium pulse + mid-slots ship, and make the Retribution a medium beam gank/tank ship... the extra low will help fitting the beams without gimping your setup, and it keeps it both different and Amarr in nature. Please also note that at beam range the 5th high slot is completely useless, so lets please lose it and make it a low!!
Tactician Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.15 18:54:00 - [253] Originally by: Lucus Ranger Hmm just had quick look at Deimos's new pg and what it can fit... Still can't do the 5x Ion II + Med Nos + MWD + Med Rep II without an RCU/PDU Maybe now is the time to remove 6th High Slot and make it a Med Slot? So it can fit a Cap Injector.. I've been saying this for months, doubt it'll happen tho
CherniyVolk	Posted - 2006.10.15 22:31:00 - [254] Originally by: Lucus Ranger Hmm just had quick look at Deimos's new pg and what it can fit... Still can't do the 5x Ion II + Med Nos + MWD + Med Rep II without an RCU/PDU Maybe now is the time to remove 6th High Slot and make it a Med Slot? So it can fit a Cap Injector.. Tuxford, can you verify this for us? I was wondering this myself, if all I'll have to do with the changes is swap out my small nos for a Medium T2 NOS. I'm tired of arguing about the Deimos myself. I don't want to have to continue arguing about it's PG. :\
Skeltek Caldari Asgard Schiffswerften Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.15 22:42:00 - [255] At first, I¦d like to mention, that this is not intended as a flame against CCP, but rather as a suggestion to think about what would be very beneficient in point of my view/experience of gamemechanics/PvP Originally by: Tuxford I've been replying to the forums today. I'm just gonna list some of the smaller tweaks and changes here. Ships Agility of battlecruisers and command ships boosted by 20% Nighthawk's explosion velocity changed to launcher rate of fire bonus Too bad, I liked the initial concept of the explosion velocity bonus. The only thing making it totaly useless was the fact how the target navigation prediction modifier is applied currently in the game. It doesn¦t decrease the enemy velocity which is being used for the damage reduction calculation, but instead it increases the explosion velocity by a few hundred m/s, which is virtualy nothing in comparison to a x-thousands m/s bonus which a Frig/Ceptor receives by imps and gangbonuses.* Instead of fixing the initial function of the bonus, they just made a damage dealer out of the ship. Virtualy useless for PvP, still slow(even with the 20% agilityincrease), much less damage than a fully insured tech2 BS, poor range. The only thing this ship will be good for now would be doing missions, since the price was way too expensive for PvP anyway(even when it was not able to break some NPC-BS tank alone in comparison to a Cerb, it was still insanely overpriced). Since it¦s made even more useless for PvP than it already was before, the gangbonus seems a bit of a wrong-invested-feature. kind regards, Skeltek = damage reduction factor is being calculated like 0.5^((EnemyVelocity-ExplosionVelocity/1240)¦) Nighthawkbonus(like it was till now): 0.5^((EnemyVelocity-(ExplosionVelocity1.5)/1240)¦) <-1.5factor=50% bonus on explosion velocity Nighthawkbonus(like it should have been to make it usefull for PvP) 0.5^(((0.5*EnemyVelocity)-ExplosionVelocity/1240)¦) <- 0.5factor=50% bonus against target speed
Lucus Ranger Gallente Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.10.15 23:15:00 - [256] Originally by: CherniyVolk Tuxford, can you verify this for us? I was wondering this myself, if all I'll have to do with the changes is swap out my small nos for a Medium T2 NOS. I'm tired of arguing about the Deimos myself. I don't want to have to continue arguing about it's PG. :\ Well, Deimos new PG with update and Engineering V = 1187.5 Heavy Ion Blaster II PG (With AWU V) = 142.2 * 5 = 711 10mn Named MWD = 150 PG Medium Nos T1 = 175 PG Medium Armour Rep II = 173 PG Add those together and you get 1209 PG Note: Is there a PG Implant? With 5% Boost? Because if there is, that would solve it... 1246.875 PG (With 5% Implant) btw, I'm tired and it's late, if I'm wrong please correct me
Yaay Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2006.10.16 02:02:00 - [257] Well this is lovely, in 1 week, the Nighthawk increased 100-150 mil and is near impossible to find on the market. Should say something about missles and their overpowering ways. I mean jesus, this is just sick, maybe the devs get paid based on caldari prices on the market.
Viktor Kax	Posted - 2006.10.16 05:10:00 - [258] I knew from dev blogs that they would change the bonus so I stocked up but 300mil+ now for a nighthawk holy****
keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.10.16 07:07:00 - [259] This happens every time a T2 ships gets a boost though, remember how fast Hawks went up in price when tux anounced they were getting turned into missile ships? I think the price increase was something in the region of 200% galaxy-wide over a period of a few hours. ---------------- Please fix BC Sig/Agility!
CherniyVolk	Posted - 2006.10.16 09:56:00 - [260] Originally by: Lucus Ranger Well, Deimos new PG with update and Engineering V = 1187.5 Heavy Ion Blaster II PG (With AWU V) = 142.2 * 5 = 711 10mn Named MWD = 150 PG Medium Nos T1 = 175 PG Medium Armour Rep II = 173 PG Add those together and you get 1209 PG Tuxford, seriously this isn't enough. The MWD and the NOS above should be T2. Even with named it won't work. So, now, the Deimos being a blaster boat will have a sixth hi-slot that the most useful module might be.... a remote armor rep? What for, it's not a drone boat. I'll refrain from beating the drum for now, wait till the fix is implemented. Maybe it's going to get an agility bonus or something...

Damis Zohar Pirates of Destruction Union Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.16 14:54:00 - [261] Originally by: Lucus Ranger Originally by: CherniyVolk Tuxford, can you verify this for us? I was wondering this myself, if all I'll have to do with the changes is swap out my small nos for a Medium T2 NOS. I'm tired of arguing about the Deimos myself. I don't want to have to continue arguing about it's PG. :\ Well, Deimos new PG with update and Engineering V = 1187.5 Heavy Ion Blaster II PG (With AWU V) = 142.2 * 5 = 711 10mn Named MWD = 150 PG Medium Nos T1 = 175 PG Medium Armour Rep II = 173 PG Add those together and you get 1209 PG Note: Is there a PG Implant? With 5% Boost? Because if there is, that would solve it... 1246.875 PG (With 5% Implant) btw, I'm tired and it's late, if I'm wrong please correct me The 5% implant would be good if that was all you planned on fitting Now add a warp scram, webber, and any sort of tank!
Darpz Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.10.16 16:30:00 - [262] what would of really fixed the deimos is just taking the useless highslow away and givving it a midslot. hell if it had that from the start I doubt people would be saying its hard to fit. because an injector makes a blastership work without it your just hitting your head against the wall trying to make it work.
Horza Otho Minmatar Silver Star Federation	Posted - 2006.10.16 18:53:00 - [263] deimos = win now :D altho it still wont stop me from flying the tier 2 gally BC :P
CherniyVolk	Posted - 2006.10.16 20:12:00 - [264] Originally by: Horza Otho deimos = win now :D altho it still wont stop me from flying the tier 2 gally BC :P No. Your ship setup isn't going to change. The only difference is that you'll have a good amount more power-grid, but not enough to do much else. I don't think you'll be able to swap the Heavy Ions for Heavy Neutrons. You won't be able to fit a Medium NOS (which the inability to fit a Medium NOS II WAS the whole argument about PG). Problem is, the Deimos was always in serious need of A LOT more powergrid than originally given. Apparently, Tuxford hasn't realized this, gave it just shy of 100PG more on the base, and while that might sound like a lot, it's not and goes to show how bad the original PG was to begin with. Tuxford, our ship fits aren't likely going to change. The PG boost isn't enough. I myself favour resistances over raw hitpoints. So I'm not going to swap out my Damage Control or EANM II for a 400mm II plate (aside from the agility issues with fitting a plate, which is No.1 problem of the Deimos). So, the only thing I myself needs, and I believe most other Deimos pilots, is the ability to fit a Medium T2 NOS with our current setup. Please reconsider the PG issues. And PLEASE PLEASE consider boosting it's agility and or speed. The ship can't close distance, dictate range even from 35KM from 0m/s; and that's already facing the target! Under practical situations, by the time it turns, and gets to 800m/s on it's first MWD boost, it's half into armor and still ~20KM away from target (which will be another two MWD boosts to reach). Thank You
Goumindong Amarr The Forsakened Companions Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.10.16 21:12:00 - [265] Originally by: Damis Zohar Originally by: Lucus Ranger Originally by: CherniyVolk Tuxford, can you verify this for us? I was wondering this myself, if all I'll have to do with the changes is swap out my small nos for a Medium T2 NOS. I'm tired of arguing about the Deimos myself. I don't want to have to continue arguing about it's PG. :\ Well, Deimos new PG with update and Engineering V = 1187.5 Heavy Ion Blaster II PG (With AWU V) = 142.2 * 5 = 711 10mn Named MWD = 150 PG Medium Nos T1 = 175 PG Medium Armour Rep II = 173 PG Add those together and you get 1209 PG Note: Is there a PG Implant? With 5% Boost? Because if there is, that would solve it... 1246.875 PG (With 5% Implant) btw, I'm tired and it's late, if I'm wrong please correct me The 5% implant would be good if that was all you planned on fitting Now add a warp scram, webber, and any sort of tank! That would be a CPU issue not a PG issue, with the 5% implant you have 40 PG left over for your resistance plating, and since none of the resistance plating requires more than 1 PG, so long as you arent trying to fit big plates you wont have a problem. If you do want a big plate you have to take a 7% dps hit and drop down to electron blasters. On the plus side you would still do 3% more damage than heavy pulse lasers [before any ship damage bonus] and 20% better than focused medium pulses[before any ship damage bonus] Alternatly, you could fit 1 PG booster in your lows and fly with less of a tank.
Anominity Amarr Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.10.16 21:14:00 - [266] I don't know if this has been mentioned already, as i have not read through the entire thread, but any thoughts on decreasing Medium Beam's power grid? As it is, the only thing i put those on are my Apoc's 8th highslot when i fit for sniping... (Energy Grid Upgrades 4 ftl :() Also, how about a grid increase for the Omen... I haven't flown one in i don't know how long, because the idea of fitting 2+ RCU's on a Cruiser makes me cry blood. Oh, while i am at it, please please please change the em missile damage bonus on the Malediction :S
Lucus Ranger Gallente Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.10.16 21:32:00 - [267] Originally by: Damis Zohar The 5% implant would be good if that was all you planned on fitting Now add a warp scram, webber, and any sort of tank! Aye, as stated above, it's more of a cpu issue, only thing that wouldn't squeeze in is a plate... But I checked the market for implant and one doesn't look as if it exsits
Randay 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.17 01:38:00 - [268] Its amazing how many people can't be happy for a boost to thier ship and instead just keep on declaring how badly they suck at EVE. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Originally by: Reddari Now just be nice before I start to make life for the BOB devs (yes you have some) harder by exposing their player characters.
Steppa Gallente Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2006.10.17 02:44:00 - [269] No Ishtar love?
Waut 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.17 06:34:00 - [270] Didn't follow the rest of the tread but what about Vulture locking range? Outbreak! F* Yeah! Coming again to save the motherf*ing day yeah! In Soviet EVE, roids pop YOU

Cosmo Raata Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2006.10.17 06:51:00 - [271] Edited by: Cosmo Raata on 17/10/2006 06:51:53 Originally by: Steppa No Ishtar love? LMAO, what are they going to do to make it better? Allow it to use fighters or go into siege mode? Maybe boost its resistances to 99% across the board.... Oh wait, Tux might like that idea....I'd better stop giving him good ideas for his painfully apparent favorite race.
Waut 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.17 08:39:00 - [272] Edited by: Waut on 17/10/2006 08:39:45 Originally by: Cosmo Raata Edited by: Cosmo Raata on 17/10/2006 06:51:53 Originally by: Steppa No Ishtar love? LMAO, what are they going to do to make it better? Allow it to use fighters or go into siege mode? Maybe boost its resistances to 99% across the board.... Oh wait, Tux might like that idea....I'd better stop giving him good ideas for his painfully apparent favorite race. That + Covert ops cloak Outbreak! F* Yeah! Coming again to save the motherf*ing day yeah! In Soviet EVE, roids pop YOU
Lucus Ranger Gallente Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.10.17 09:25:00 - [273] Originally by: Randay Its amazing how many people can't be happy for a boost to thier ship and instead just keep on declaring how badly they suck at EVE. If your refering to my Deimos posts, I'm just pointing out that this change doesn't actually make much difference to the fitting of the Deimos or at least not the fitting that almost every single Deimos pilot wants... Of course we shall see if it gets agility boosted.. That be nice..
ArchenTheGreat Caldari Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.10.17 12:16:00 - [274] Tux please fix Nemesis' grid. You can't fit this ship without power mod.
Miklas Laces A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A	Posted - 2006.10.17 14:12:00 - [275] Originally by: Lucus Ranger If your refering to my Deimos posts, I'm just pointing out that this change doesn't actually make much difference to the fitting of the Deimos The difference is sensible and I'm happy with the changes to Deimos powergrid. Now you can fit for example: - 4x ion, 1x electron, med nos, mwd, armor rep - 3x ion, 2x electron, small nos, mwd, armor rep and 800mm plate - 2x neutron, 3x ion, small nos, mwd, small rep and 800mm plate
Angus Torg	Posted - 2006.10.17 16:08:00 - [276] The powergrid increase will free one low slots in my setups, which was previously filled with a useless RCU2. Thanks so far. Now, can we have a speed increase?
samba mk2 Caldari The Priory	Posted - 2006.10.17 16:48:00 - [277] all sounds good to me
JaxxFunk Minmatar Soul Collectors	Posted - 2006.10.17 18:50:00 - [278] Sounds good to me too. Some people are just never happy. "Boost this, boost that" If the guy listened to all of you, all ships would be 8x8x8 slotted 20km/s uber beasts of doom.
Lucus Ranger Gallente Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.10.17 19:34:00 - [279] Originally by: Miklas Laces The difference is sensible and I'm happy with the changes to Deimos powergrid. Now you can fit for example: - 4x ion, 1x electron, med nos, mwd, armor rep - 3x ion, 2x electron, small nos, mwd, armor rep and 800mm plate - 2x neutron, 3x ion, small nos, mwd, small rep and 800mm plate Point taken, I didn't think about mixing guns ... Also I'm not asking for a overpowered uber monster of wtfpwnage, just a ship which is worth flying
Randay 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.17 19:47:00 - [280] Originally by: Lucus Ranger Point taken, I didn't think about mixing guns ... Also I'm not asking for a overpowered uber monster of wtfpwnage, just a ship which is worth flying Just a thought, if its not worth flying, gasp dont fly it. But I believe that it is just a personal problem here, since a "ship thats not worth flying" wouldn't be going on market for a 300-400% markup. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Originally by: Reddari Now just be nice before I start to make life for the BOB devs (yes you have some) harder by exposing their player characters.

Lucus Ranger Gallente Rampage Eternal	Posted - 2006.10.17 20:13:00 - [281] Originally by: Randay Just a thought, if its not worth flying, gasp dont fly it. But I believe that it is just a personal problem here, since a "ship thats not worth flying" wouldn't be going on market for a 300-400% markup. Actually, I don't fly it these days, I fly the Ishtar instead, bit extra in isk, but is a far better performer atm imo..
CherniyVolk	Posted - 2006.10.17 22:54:00 - [282] Originally by: Lucus Ranger Originally by: Randay Its amazing how many people can't be happy for a boost to thier ship and instead just keep on declaring how badly they suck at EVE. If your refering to my Deimos posts, I'm just pointing out that this change doesn't actually make much difference to the fitting of the Deimos or at least not the fitting that almost every single Deimos pilot wants... Of course we shall see if it gets agility boosted.. That be nice.. Yes, an agility boost would be nice. At the moment, I'm postulating what I might be able to change on my Deimos giving the increased PG/CPU. It's a bit disconcerting that I figure my fit won't change at all :(
Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.18 00:06:00 - [283] Originally by: Tuxford Yeah but probably not until after the weekend. Weekend's come and gone. :) Any new updates? ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Ysolde Xen Minmatar Liberal Trading Co Electus Matari	Posted - 2006.10.18 09:23:00 - [284] Post-weekend, I'm holding out for a little bit of PG for the Nemesis and the Ares And about the sigrad penalty, provided it's less than 10% I can see inertial stabs being quite nice on Inties. ----- It's not a crap ship, you're just flying it all wrong.
Waut 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.18 10:57:00 - [285] Vulture locking range boost pretty please Outbreak! F* Yeah! Coming again to save the motherf*ing day yeah! In Soviet EVE, roids pop YOU
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.18 15:07:00 - [286] Tuxford, can you please publish the rest of the changes? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jet Collins Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2006.10.18 17:48:00 - [287] Originally by: Jim McGregor Tuxford, can you please publish the rest of the changes? The rest of the changes and all the stats for all the new ships too. Pretty please.
Magunus The Forsakened Few The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.10.18 19:29:00 - [288] Originally by: Jet Collins Pretty please. ... with Eris on top? --- In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe'


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