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Jones Maloy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.19 13:45:00 -
[31]
if it is a small enough penealty to make still fitting stabs viable then i am willing to go along with it. a cpu reduction from 30 to 25 might be made to make up for the new penalty. a side effect of this is you increased the skill requirements of fitting a combat ship with stabs. they need sensor boosters now. also you made combat ships use a low and a mid slot for fitting stabs. no sensor boosters would be needed if the penalty was low enough. i personaly have no problem taking a little longer to lock ships as long as it doesn't take 50% longer. then it turns into a nerf and nerfs are bad m'kay.
a .93 signature resolution multiplier for each stab would be fair. a range penalty doesn't make sense. not to mention that the penalty doesn't make the least of sense from a realistic view. how is stabalizing your warp core going to hinder your sensors? the goal is to reduce the effectiveness of combat stabs, not to make them ineffective.
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WCS Nerf boycott low-sec
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=411964Gaming La |
D'Arkon Skye
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2006.10.19 13:47:00 -
[32]
No one has mentioned those of us that fit stabs to rat in 0.0. We do it because we are set up for pve and have no interest in pvping. These idiotic stab nerfs are completely screwing over 0.0 pve setups, where it is fairly standard in my experience to fit a stab or two. I personally don't rat without 2 stabs, and when I travel I fit all the stabs I can. I don't pvp and have no plans of it in the forseeable future, so I don't know if I would fit stabs for it or not.
So in summary, nerfing stabs is just making 0.0 less accessible and tipping the scales even more in favor of low sec gankers that feed on younger characters. GG CCP. Learn2Balance.
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Trind2222
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.10.19 13:57:00 -
[33]
Wgy berf stabs they arn't uced as they was suposed to flee away may pvp setup to day include stabs they was mean't to get way war target's or many pirat's
but to day even 1vs1 target get's away he is using stabs.
Hope the nerf will nerf many vaga stab setup.
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Serapis Aote
TBC
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Posted - 2006.10.19 14:01:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: Dv1C3
As a noob, all I can say is: "Take my stabs and watch me close my account".
If I can't get away, I'll get killed.
If I get killed 5 times, I'm back to square one, no cash, no ships, and I'm just not prepared to start again from scratch.
I'm hurting NO-ONE, but I expect NO-ONE to respect that.
Anyone who thinks they can win, will have a go.
Invariaby their chance of success is higher than mine, otherwise they wouldn't bother attacking (no-one that starts a fight wants a fair one, they want to win).
The only people I can possibly imagine wanting stabs nerfed are those that gank people like me. Well, If you don't like people like me using stabs, you should be using better / more scramblers, eh?
/me stands back, folds arms and levels a 1000 yard carebear stare. -_-
/me says please leave...because you dont understand the topic.
stabs on haulers and mining = fine
stabs on combat ships = lame and less fun for all involved, less fights.
Knowing you cant loose a battle because you could always run away...takes something away from the combat.
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Luke Pubcrawler
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Posted - 2006.10.19 14:04:00 -
[35]
Nerfing stabs will be a major step backwards. Of course the people yelling loudest for it to happen dont see that. Either they are "serious" PvPers who get annoyed when a target escapes because it has stabs fitted or pirates who see their victims getting away too often.
In the first case I don't see what is wrong with fitting stabs on a pvp ship. You trade combat ability (a slot) for a backup plan in case you lose. Thats not cowardice just a cautious, realistic approach to battle. Anyone whose plan for what to do when a fight starts to go badly is limited to "surrender or die" needs more imagination.
Likewise pirates who seem to believe they have a godgiven right to kill everything weaker than them that they get close to. Wrong. If they have more stabs fitted than you have scramblers tough. You already have an edge thro being in a PVP ship, surely sparing an extra slot or 2 from scrams is not impossible, anyway you can fit scram points at 2-1 for stabs if you choose.
Personaly I dont fit many stabs - one or two if I am ratting, mining or hauling in lowsec or 0.0. Even so this proposed nerf will probably help keep mw out of lowsec.
My PVE fitted ship is already no match for any PVP fitted one. This nerf reduces its effectiveness against npcs and fitting even 1 stab reduces my chance of taking on a pirate, who is probably also much more experienced than I am, from slim to none.
So I will stick to high sec or 0.0 - at least in 0.0 it is easier to see the pirate coming. Nerfing stabs is simply another step towards emptying lowsec. For a new player fitting a stab or 2 before venturing out there was smart move, gave you a sporting chance agains the campers and pirates without hurtung the game tyou wanted to play ratting or mission running. Not anymore. Pirates dont be surprised to see fewer lowsec targets and dont scream for more highsec nerfs when it happens.
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Polinus
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Posted - 2006.10.19 14:06:00 -
[36]
You can't make him be 100% sure he can run away. But you also can't make him 100% sure he cannot!!
Make Stabb more effective the farther away they are and prejudice jump time. Simple, they might save you, but they won't do it everytime.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.19 14:13:00 -
[37]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 19/10/2006 14:17:03
Originally by: Spanker
1) Nerf stabs
2) Nerf cloaks
Both of these allowed my arma to arrive safely back to empire space yesterday when really I should have been eaten alive by the people trying to catch me. As it is now non concentual pvp doesn't exist in eve 
No, that's fine. If you fit your ship to run then it should be good at it. What's a problem is if you fit stabs, and then can fight _and_ run. Which may not be very effective, but it's annoying as hell to have to use 6 ships to pin down a single sniper.
I am neither PvPer (well, not seriously, but there's always going to be some in 0.0) nor Pirate.
Yes, it hurts your ratting set up a little, but seriously, lock time on NPCs isn't much of an issue anyway. 's not like they're going to have ganked you in the time it takes you to lock. Or you could fit a PvP ready setup, and next time someone warps to your belt, kill them too.
Player pirates in lowsec and 0.0 drop even better loot than the rats do, although admittedly you do have to get the pod for the bounty (if any).
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Jones Maloy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.19 14:15:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Jones Maloy on 19/10/2006 14:15:58
wcs nerf
.50 signature resolution and max targeting range multiplier per wcs. **** this. **** low-sec. god damn ******* nerfbat.
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WCS Nerf boycott low-sec
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=411964Gaming La |
Hoshi
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.19 14:15:00 -
[39]
It's not like this is a large nerf to stabs, it will mostly effect snipers while short range ships might not even notice it. Will make ECM/Damps a bit more effective against stabbed ships (longer relock time etc).
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Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.10.19 14:17:00 -
[40]
booohooohoohohoo...
cry me a river. Stabs deserve to get nerfed.
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Nicocat
Caldari
New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2006.10.19 14:23:00 -
[41]
Bwaaaahahahahahahahahahaha!
*ahem*
I approve of WCS nerfs. Why?
Because fighting a stabbed-up Ferox/Raven (full tanking ability, no damage anyway) is very, very annoying when he warps off in low shield.
Because the Stabbabond needs to die.
Because I don't like Burn Eden anyway.
Because it's STILL ok to run around low-/no-sec transporting **** with stabs fitted.
Because ratting doesn't need stabs unless you're a total tool that can't kill a warp disrupting frigate, and don't know to do so FIRST.
Because gate snipers are the lowest, most pathetic wastes of space in EVE.
Because, if you're fighting with super-expensive modules in PvP, you're asking to lose them anyway.
I think I got it all.
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Remember, killing a Goon isn't murder. They don't have souls. |
Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.10.19 14:29:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Nicocat
Bwaaaahahahahahahahahahaha!
*ahem*
I approve of WCS nerfs. Why?
Because fighting a stabbed-up Ferox/Raven (full tanking ability, no damage anyway) is very, very annoying when he warps off in low shield.
Because the Stabbabond needs to die.
Because I don't like Burn Eden anyway.
Because it's STILL ok to run around low-/no-sec transporting **** with stabs fitted.
Because ratting doesn't need stabs unless you're a total tool that can't kill a warp disrupting frigate, and don't know to do so FIRST.
Because gate snipers are the lowest, most pathetic wastes of space in EVE.
Because, if you're fighting with super-expensive modules in PvP, you're asking to lose them anyway.
I think I got it all.
QFT
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Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.19 14:29:00 -
[43]
*narrows eyes at OP*
So, are you a Stabbabond pilot or a Burn Eden Raven(tm) pilot? Either way your lameness is manifest. The WCS nerf allows travellers to continue as before which is good. Combat ships should not fit stabs and now they won't. This too, is good.
*dances on the shallow, unmarked graves of the Stabbabond and the BE Raven(tm)*
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.19 14:34:00 -
[44]
The most balanced module in EvE is going to get nerfed. A sad day.
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Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind.
Pax Caldaria. |
Paxmerlin
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Posted - 2006.10.19 15:00:00 -
[45]
Okay, so what is the real complaint anyway? a ganker can't gank? someone planning on the possability of loss?
why it takes 2 or more mid slots to really be effictive with scrams? you cannot think outside the box? you don't want to get scramed? why not not get locked? ever heard of ECM? You can't pay attention to the messages when it says who is scramming you and attempt to take that target first?
Loading up on WCS? so what? if you really wanted that target you will figure it out, do more DPS and actulay have to think about your fittings for your ship instead of relieing on the forums for your setups.
Gate snipers can be dealt with, just ask ginger magician.
there are countless was to avoid being scramed, and countless ways to deal with someone who does. If you can't solo PVP you want scrams to get nerfed.... if you don't want to pvp you don't want scrams to get nerfed..
Its the prey saying don't cage me, and the preditor saying I shouldn't need help.
If you play the PVE solo, be a carebear and stay high sec, or take your chances, unless you learn to avoid and hide.
If your going to PVP solo, then expect your prey to get away sometimes, and learn to hunt them better.
First rule of and role playing game.. you cannot get attached to your charactor, they will die, your gear, you are going to lose it. The only thing you can do is skill up, make your choices and then deal with it.
you don't want to learn from a mistake you want the mistake not be allowed to happen. Its a game, learn to play, or go play WOW were you don't need any skill other than point and click.
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Magunus
The Forsakened Few
The ARR0W Project
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Posted - 2006.10.19 15:08:00 -
[46]
Originally by: D'Arkon Skye
No one has mentioned those of us that fit stabs to rat in 0.0. We do it because we are set up for pve and have no interest in pvping. These idiotic stab nerfs are completely screwing over 0.0 pve setups, where it is fairly standard in my experience to fit a stab or two. I personally don't rat without 2 stabs, and when I travel I fit all the stabs I can. I don't pvp and have no plans of it in the forseeable future, so I don't know if I would fit stabs for it or not.
So in summary, nerfing stabs is just making 0.0 less accessible and tipping the scales even more in favor of low sec gankers that feed on younger characters. GG CCP. Learn2Balance.
I honestly don't see a problem with PvE. Some rats do scramble, and it's nice to have a stab or two on just so if you're in a dangerous area you'll never get tackled by rats while a player pounds you to dust, but that's not going to change. So you'll be locking the rats a bit closer and it'll take a bit longer. Big deal, it's not like they're going to kill you in those extra couple seconds.
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In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe' |
Nicocat
Caldari
New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2006.10.19 15:10:00 -
[47]
My view isn't that people shouldn't use stabs because it helps them escape somewhere they don't want to be (I stab up when running through gatecamps with loot, for example). My view is that they shouldn't use stabs because it helps them escape somewhere they DO want to be. They fit a stab or two, and they can escape any solo attack, regardless of who initiated it. It's like "Teehee, look mommy! I can fight with no risk now!" Hell, they can escape a group attack if the group only has one tackler...
Granted, my favorite counter to stabs is always to call in friends who have scrams (like me) and just beat the everloving **** out of people that use them, so I don't really care if they fit them or not. Still, I like watching them squirm and ***** about it. It warms my heart like delicious, metaphysical Earl Grey tea.
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Remember, killing a Goon isn't murder. They don't have souls. |
TheEndofTheWorld
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Posted - 2006.10.19 15:40:00 -
[48]
What will this wcs nerf fix? Dunno, nothing. So you don't like PVP ships with wcs? You know what will they do after the nerf? Just not engage. Never ever even try to engage when they aren't 100% of the win.
200km t2 sniper with or without stabs he is impossible to catch. Actually, with 2 stabs he would possibly risk to stay there a bit longer, get scrambled and risk it for a kill.
BE won't get any worse off from the change. Actually you just made them even more safespotski/covopski with the change.
TBH WCS won't solve any of the "issues"?
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Snikkt
Gallente
Time Cube Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.19 16:08:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Polinus
Survinving is the most important part of combat.
If a survival mechanism like stab is to be emoved". So remove armor and shield!! They are for loosers as well!
Pathetic! I would get very frustrated If I could not have a chance of escaping by scrificing a lot of my ship potential (enough to stop playing in fact).
Want to change the balance? Fine! add more scrambling possibilities!! Range based scramblers that start to have effect at 50 km but only get strong close by etc... (and when close by The other guy would need to have everything on stab!
If someone wants to gibe all its slots for stab, let him do it! And If he does that he should be able to escape form any single scrambling ship! But should be anyway not able to evade several ships scrambling him at once.
I don't get why people want the gamne to become more and more simplistic to the point where is just an option of I find a ship with less tank and damage than mine, so I I must always leve with a kill!
Making others retreat is already a victory! Surviving is also a victory! Dont crew the game making it a pathetic 5 year old only 2 option game.
I really want you to have my babies.
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If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
My opinions are not my corporations.
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Snikkt
Gallente
Time Cube Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.19 16:15:00 -
[50]
Know what makes me giggle? The post trying to get more people into low sec.
This is just gonna chase away more people from it.
Say what you will, but I won't touch low-sec now, except for corp functions.
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If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
My opinions are not my corporations.
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lofty29
Praxiteles Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.19 16:17:00 -
[51]
Originally by: tiller
I want to see officer stabs. Thanks 
WTS Tobias's WCS.
4 strength - 1pg, 50 CPU
Starting bid - 1b
Bid increments - 500m
Buyout - 50b
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Praxitele's Inc. is Recruiting! |
Rafein
Eye of God
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.19 17:31:00 -
[52]
Well, how bout we just double scrambler's power and range, so it's not a stab nerf, but a scrambler buff???
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Waut
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.10.19 17:34:00 -
[53]
The stab nerf is brilliant
Outbreak! F*** Yeah! Coming again to save the motherf***ing day yeah!
In Soviet EVE, roids pop YOU
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Mr Fringle
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Posted - 2006.10.19 18:23:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Jones Maloy
30 cpu, 1 pg, and a low slot are perfectly ballanced already. and nerfing is just plain retarded. look what happened to the Ammar. people that don't want to die use stabs. people who don't use stabs die. fitting my rupture with 5 stabs takes 150 out of 390 cpu. that's almost 40%. but i'll be damned anyone can scram me. if i want to sacrifice that much to ensure my survival than that should be my choice. people proposing a .50 cpu multiplyer per stab are insane. they gimp ships pretty darn fast already.I see absolutly no reason at all why they should be touched. the only people complaining about it are the people who can't gank their prey because they were smart and used stabs. if you nerf things left and right all you end up with is a pile of ****. this is about game balance. and they are already balanced.
rant over. un-nerf Ammar, balance caldari and minmatar, make drones smarter, improve ai tactics, and last but not least: streamline code and reduce lag. thank you.
seeing those nerf stab threads every day makes me want to scream.
All the well skilled PVPers that snipe, then when the person has got really close, the sniper just warps off....no cnncequences...the sniper just knows he kills things and will never lose a ship...
People like that ruined stabs for the people that genuinly dont want to PVP..
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Ashturi Nagano
LeM Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.10.19 18:31:00 -
[55]
I've said this before, and I'll say it again, but I guess I don't really understand why you would change the current setup in the game. Either that, or you're not going far enough. If you eliminate Stabilizers, you should eliminate Scramblers, too. If you want someone to stick around long enough to fight, make sure to attack something they want/need to protect. That's the way that it works in RL, so why not in the game?
In RL, you have two ships (let's say) on the open ocean. Oddly enough, neither EVER has to engage the other, unless one is caught in the open by surprise. The only reason that the smaller would engage the larger, is to protect something else, whether it be a base, another, more important, ship, etc. Your average BB (ocean-going) doesn't, and will probably never have, a webbifier, a scrambler, or other mismatch-making equipment. So why do we have to have them here?
Because technology has advanced? Of course! But every offensive technological breakthrough will have an opposite and equal defensive breakthrough. Bigger guns vs. thicker/better/differently-arranged armor. Faster vehicles vs. landmines. Lasers vs. Hardening (Modern battlefield...not futuristic). Better radios (yes, an offensive weapon) vs. More effective jamming. Stealth vs. Better RADAR and training (yes, a well trained RADAR operator can find a Stealth...sometimes).
Or, Scramblers vs. Stabilizers.
To have one without the other would go against the least sense that God ever gave an engineer. Especially ones in the business of creating things that can hurt or protect people. If you wish to "nerf" stabilizers, then you should "nerf" scramblers as well, so that they don't work as well against an un-stabilized ship. Seems only fair, doesn't it?
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"Sometimes I amaze even myself. Well, not so much 'amaze' as 'worry,' or 'freak out.' But occasionally, I'm able to work 'amaze' in there." |
Julio Torres
Reaver Inc
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Posted - 2006.10.19 18:55:00 -
[56]
This is very bad for PvP.
Stabs gives people a secure feeling, take it away, and there will be less people in 0.0
Scrams isnt supposed to be a "I will kill U" button either, which it will be.
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.10.19 19:00:00 -
[57]
Edited by: keepiru on 19/10/2006 19:00:58
I dont see the problem - people who dont want to pvp/are travelling for one reason or another can fit stabs just fine.
The people who go down PF-346 with no info or scout totally unprepared - and then whine about in "General Diss" as sharkbait calls it - arent going to engage anyway, the nerf has no effect on them...
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
Hudsonn
Minmatar
Undercover Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.19 19:39:00 -
[58]
I only use stabs for moving ships/moving mods.Using them in combat, is lame.
Everyone knows how annoying it is to start winning a fight, only to have your target warp off before he pops. Argh!
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Minmatar is hard mode___ |
ragewind
Caldari
VersaTech Interstellar Ltd.
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.19 20:10:00 -
[59]
this is really screwed.
the stab is the counter to the scrambler the lone T1 mod you can slap on the cheepest of the cheep ships and hold down anything up to cariers and dreads.
300K holding 2bil of ship and engine tech so this was balanced to begain with wasnt it 
is the stab over powered as all precive no whats more uses a stab or a power diagnostic 2 or a BCU 2 eather depends what you want!
damage/tank/chance to get a way. see that chance to get away mmany a time ive seen players fit T1 tackler frigs with 4 point scramblers so even with the best hope in hell a stab uses is screwed.
so then we have the sniper argument, ok so they have a sniper with a stab so then dont cry uses the game and the ships in it to beat him, covert ops/recon/interdictor ect can all be used to get you in close and personal.
and if we are in a balanceing mood as the game is based around "ever reaction has an equal and aposing reaction" or ever mod has a counter were is the dictor counter yes that ship that is be so pointless now its untrue whats the point in T2 when T1 frig will rule
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Dragon the patch to optimise EVE.
Welcome to Tranquillity the optimised snail
Please wait 4 minuets to jump war targets
are 2 seconds away. |
Leikeze Mrotserif
Murder-Death-Kill
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Posted - 2006.10.19 20:11:00 -
[60]
a good solution.... release t2 scrams
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