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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Paranoid Loyd 4489	Posted - 2015.04.02 21:42:52 - [391] - Quote admiral root wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: Pots and kettles everywhere. I'd love a cup of tea, please. One lump or two? "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Ria Nieyli Nieyli Enterprises 33789	Posted - 2015.04.02 21:43:34 - [392] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Steppa Musana wrote: Because that isn't the conclusion your ilk are going with. You might be an exception, but mostly your kind are using this as evidence that the griefing that occurs in highsec has a positive affect on player retention. Nonsense. Making people like you froth at the mouth is reason enough to make claims like this, even more so when a CCP case study appears to back it up. It appears to back it up to some people, but they're just misreading the data to suit their own views. I love statistics Why do bad threads happen to good people?
Hengle Teron Just Another Corp XIV 44655	Posted - 2015.04.02 21:43:43 - [393] - Quote The sky is green, I tell you. I saw it with my own damn eyes.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 35406	Posted - 2015.04.02 21:44:28 - [394] - Quote Eve Solecist wrote: You take the facts. You stick them somewhere. When an ******* comes along, you point at the facts and tell him to shut up. No discussions. No argueing. No debate. Facts and HTFU. Often I'd agree with that sentiment. At other times, I think this forum is as much a part of the rich experience of Eve as the game itself is. I know personally I'm as connected to what happens here as I am to shooting someone in the face in game, so firing volleys from one trench to another entrenched player with neither giving ground in a debate/argument can still be enjoyable. Futile, but enjoyable. I also think 'flavour of the month' is a thing CCP listens to and makes changes to the game based on community outcry. So in the absence of everyone agreeing on something, both sides are just as important to express, even in the face of facts, just to ensure petty things don't become the target of the latest FOTM. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Paranoid Loyd 4489	Posted - 2015.04.02 21:44:36 - [395] - Quote Hengle Teron wrote: The sky is green, I tell you. I saw it with my own damn eyes. There's just an incursion in the system. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12415	Posted - 2015.04.02 21:45:41 - [396] - Quote admiral root wrote: Mr Epeen wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Which makes perfect sense to me, EVE only really gets real once you realize that you can lose. Do tell. What have you participated in with any risk of losing? Awoxing? Miner bumping? You're not exactly an authority on any part of this game except taking advantage of unarmed opponents. Nothing wrong with that, of course. Just stop acting like you are something you're not. Be proud of who you are, Kaarous. There's no shame in being afraid to engage someone that might shoot back. Own your fear. Mr Epeen Says the forum alt. No, I don't mind engaging the worthless anklebiter this once, even if he is making a false claim for credentials fallacy. Since I began playing EVE, I have engaged in fleet combat in nullsec as a line member. Quit that, then ended up rolling this guy as an alt, since my main was somewhat untenable thanks to a particularly bad doxx. This guy has been in faction warfare for a while, got out of that after winning the warzone with Fweddit. Then, in between helping out with missions, ran a bunch of fleet ops (logi, most often, since this guy is a Guardian pilot) with my old alliance, the ROC, in both low and null, as well as with their wormhole corp for a while. Quit that because poses made me want to pull out my fillings. In between, on alt accounts, I have been a fairly prolific awoxer and ganker, dabbling presently in highsec wars with this excellent and real life friendly corp in CODE. I also dabble in margin trade scams and some pretty awful marketing, since I speculate pretty damn badly. So I've done a large proportion of what EVE Online has to offer. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Iroquoiss Pliskin Hedion University Amarr Empire 119	Posted - 2015.04.02 21:56:24 - [397] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Hengle Teron wrote: The sky is green, I tell you. I saw it with my own damn eyes. There's just an incursion in the system. Hey! I saw you in Devoid looting wrecks off a gate. Stealer! ( -í° -£-û -í°)
Paranoid Loyd 4494	Posted - 2015.04.02 22:01:18 - [398] - Quote Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: Hengle Teron wrote: The sky is green, I tell you. I saw it with my own damn eyes. There's just an incursion in the system. Hey! I saw you in Devoid looting wrecks off a gate. Stealer! I saw you too, but I do the shooting not the looting. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!!!
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23414	Posted - 2015.04.02 22:18:18 - [399] - Quote Ria Nieyli wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Steppa Musana wrote: Because that isn't the conclusion your ilk are going with. You might be an exception, but mostly your kind are using this as evidence that the griefing that occurs in highsec has a positive affect on player retention. Nonsense. Making people like you froth at the mouth is reason enough to make claims like this, even more so when a CCP case study appears to back it up. It appears to back it up to some people, but they're just misreading the data to suit their own views. I love statistics Which part of CCP Rise saying that people who get ganked are the most likely group to stay, with people otherwise killed by other players the 2nd most likely group to stay, while people who don't die at all are most likely group to leave the game is ambiguous? CCP Rise's presentation doesn't go as far as explicitly stating that "highsec griefing" has a positive effect on player retention. However, the presentation he gave certainly seems to suggest that "highsec griefing" doesn't appear to be having a negative effect. Your use of griefing is inappropriate btw, the dictionary definition doesn't count when those activities are recognised and encouraged by the developer of a game, as is the case with Eve. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Ria Nieyli Nieyli Enterprises 33790	Posted - 2015.04.02 22:29:44 - [400] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Ria Nieyli wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Steppa Musana wrote: Because that isn't the conclusion your ilk are going with. You might be an exception, but mostly your kind are using this as evidence that the griefing that occurs in highsec has a positive affect on player retention. Nonsense. Making people like you froth at the mouth is reason enough to make claims like this, even more so when a CCP case study appears to back it up. It appears to back it up to some people, but they're just misreading the data to suit their own views. I love statistics Which part of CCP Rise saying that people who get ganked are most likely stay, with people in the otherwise killed by other players 2nd most likely to stay, while people who don't die at all are most likely to leave the game is ambiguous? CCP Rise's presentation doesn't go as far as explicitly stating that "highsec griefing" has a positive effect on player retention., the presentation he gave certainly seems to suggest that "highsec griefing" doesn't appear to be having a negative effect. Your use of griefing is inappropriate btw, the dictionary definition doesn't count when those activities are recognised and encouraged by the developer of a game, as is the case with Eve. Where did I say griefing in my post? As for the other question: EVE is marketed as a PvP game, people come in expecting to experience some. Ergo, concordedly, vis-a-vis it would be expected that they stay if they do. I don't know why people are chestbeating about it so much. It's like reading about all the horrible scams that can occur in the game and how you can't trust anyone. Then you start to play and people warn you about the Goons because... they'll scam you. Well, duh? Why do bad threads happen to good people?

Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23415	Posted - 2015.04.02 22:36:16 - [401] - Quote ^^ Sorry my bad, I derped and pasted where I should have copied, only the first paragraph should have been posted. Apologies Post edited. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jenshae Chiroptera 1202	Posted - 2015.04.02 23:27:13 - [402] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: James kinda pretend to be space Jesus... You get that also?! The way the CODE fanatics press The Order on people has me refering to them to other people as, "Space Jehovahs" or "SJ"s now. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 35417	Posted - 2015.04.03 00:21:17 - [403] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: The orginal example pertains to developers that run silly queries against the database. Maybe you could explain in simple terms that even a dense person like me can understand, why that data presented as it was, was not relevant to the point Rise made? Not empty quoting. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12423	Posted - 2015.04.03 00:22:37 - [404] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: The orginal example pertains to developers that run silly queries against the database. Maybe you could explain in simple terms that even a dense person like me can understand, why that data presented as it was, was not relevant to the point Rise made? Not empty quoting. Yes you are, they'll ignore it anyway. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Jenshae Chiroptera 1202	Posted - 2015.04.03 00:27:13 - [405] - Quote ] Scipio Artelius wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: The orginal example pertains to developers that run silly queries against the database. Maybe you could explain in simple terms that even a dense person like me can understand, why that data presented as it was, was not relevant to the point Rise made? The problem is that the data was run at all. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Eve Solecist wrote: ... It was CCP who wondered if it was true what carebears claimed. They checked, if it was true that a high amount of new players is being griefed out of the game by being ganked, or ... Obvious flaw here. Ask 100 random carebears what determines new player and you will have 50 different answers. For the purpose of his presentation his definition is the only one that counts, our definitions are irrelevant. That said I'd be interested in seeing the results of any future studies done with extended timescales. Eve Solecist is making new definitions and a lot of guess work. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Concord Guy's Cousin State War Academy Caldari State 658	Posted - 2015.04.03 00:28:12 - [406] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Obvious flaw here. Ask 100 random carebears what determines new player and you will have 50 different answers. Ask 100 random carebears anything at all and the answer generally comes down to one or more of the following themes. Gankers are sociopaths in real life. Wardecs are unfair, people who do it are sociopaths in real life. Scammers are sociopaths people in real life. Leave me alone, I just want to PvE. Grr GoonsGäó Highsec should be safe. Other people suck. Occasionally we get an exceptional bingo-post from the likes of Veers that manages to combine all of the above in some far fetched fantasy that resembles Habbo on 'shrooms. ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries" NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12428	Posted - 2015.04.03 00:30:47 - [407] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: The problem is that the data was run at all. Told ya, Scipio. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
admiral root Red Galaxy 2610	Posted - 2015.04.03 00:33:25 - [408] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: The problem is that the data was run at all. People like you wanted to burn Galileo. I'm just saying. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff \| No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that. A recent survey of applicants to CODE. corporations showed that 100% accepted James 315 as their saviour. You can't argue with facts.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23423	Posted - 2015.04.03 00:33:35 - [409] - Quote Darn it, bloody forums.. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 35419	Posted - 2015.04.03 00:37:09 - [410] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: The problem is that the data was run at all. Told ya, Scipio. Seems so, unfortunately. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari

Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12433	Posted - 2015.04.03 00:39:33 - [411] - Quote admiral root wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: The problem is that the data was run at all. People like you wanted to burn Galileo. I'm just saying. That's actually a common misconception. Galileo was persecuted largely for his disobedience against a dictate, having made one of his books solely to make fun of the Pope after promising not to. It had little to do with his scientific views. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Jenshae Chiroptera 1202	Posted - 2015.04.03 00:40:48 - [412] - Quote admiral root wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: The problem is that the data was run at all. People like you wanted to burn Galileo. I'm just saying. Quote: A valid logical argument is one in which the conclusions follow from its premises, and its conclusions are consequences of its premises. If the premises are garbage throw out the rest. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
admiral root Red Galaxy 2614	Posted - 2015.04.03 00:42:14 - [413] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: admiral root wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: The problem is that the data was run at all. People like you wanted to burn Galileo. I'm just saying. That's actually a common misconception. Galileo was persecuted largely for his disobedience against a dictate, having made one of his books solely to make fun of the Pope after promising not to. It had little to do with his scientific views. Well, I learnt something today. \o/ No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff \| No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that. A recent survey of applicants to CODE. corporations showed that 100% accepted James 315 as their saviour. You can't argue with facts.
admiral root Red Galaxy 2614	Posted - 2015.04.03 00:43:10 - [414] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: If the premises are garbage throw out the rest. Says the head of what amounts to Eve's flat Earth society. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff \| No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that. A recent survey of applicants to CODE. corporations showed that 100% accepted James 315 as their saviour. You can't argue with facts.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12433	Posted - 2015.04.03 00:43:44 - [415] - Quote admiral root wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: admiral root wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: The problem is that the data was run at all. People like you wanted to burn Galileo. I'm just saying. That's actually a common misconception. Galileo was persecuted largely for his disobedience against a dictate, having made one of his books solely to make fun of the Pope after promising not to. It had little to do with his scientific views. Well, I learnt something today. \o/ At least someone did. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Jenshae Chiroptera 1202	Posted - 2015.04.03 00:48:27 - [416] - Quote admiral root wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: If the premises are garbage throw out the rest. Says the head of what amounts to Eve's flat Earth society. I look at the profile picture of your rather flat, table topped, looking head and have a good laugh. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 1992	Posted - 2015.04.03 01:27:19 - [417] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: An 80,000 user sample size is not insignificant. Assuming that the users are unique and the last figure of 500,00 subs to be accurate to within 10%, that'd be a 14-17% sample of the overall population, better than pretty much any medical study. Quote: Eve Solecist is making new definitions and a lot of guess work. And you're not? Pull the other one, it's got bells on. Ignoring Jenshaes weird statement. Firstly an 80,000 person study is not a 14-17% sample of the overall population. Because it is a study which includes no longer active accounts who are not part of the 500,000 population, so to obtain an accurate percentage of the population you would have to know the total number of accounts who have been active at any time (including trials) in the time period of the study. not the number of current subs. Secondly, all the database query established is that there is a relationship between players who have been ganked in their first 15 days and players who have stayed more than 15 days. Ignoring all the stuff about 15 days being a terrible timeframe to take, we still have no idea of the nature of the relationship. So to say that 'Players stayed because they were ganked' is extrapolating the statistics to say something that we have no idea on. There are a multitude of other relationships that would also generate a similar view, but for vastly different reasons on which ganking is not the root cause, but simply a subsequent effect from the real reason those players have stayed longer. Basically, you all are inventing results from a study, and would get laughed out of any scientific establishment with your reaching for straws.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 23423	Posted - 2015.04.03 01:48:14 - [418] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Ignoring Jenshaes weird statement. Firstly an 80,000 person study is not a 14-17% sample of the overall population. Because it is a study which includes no longer active accounts who are not part of the 500,000 population, so to obtain an accurate percentage of the population you would have to know the total number of accounts who have been active at any time (including trials) in the time period of the study. not the number of current subs. If true, this is the first I've heard about it. Would you have a source for your information? Quote: Secondly, all the database query established is that there is a relationship between players who have been ganked in their first 15 days and players who have stayed more than 15 days. Ignoring all the stuff about 15 days being a terrible timeframe to take, we still have no idea of the nature of the relationship. So to say that 'Players stayed because they were ganked' is extrapolating the statistics to say something that we have no idea on. I've certainly not said that as far as I know, what I have said is that the data points to people who have been involved in ship to ship PvP being more likely to stay those who haven't. I hope CCP Rise actually takes the study further, both in time and depth to see if he and his team can come up with some sort of relationship, which as you rightly say is obscure or unknown at present. Quote: There are a multitude of other relationships that would also generate a similar view, but for vastly different reasons on which ganking is not the root cause, but simply a subsequent effect from the real reason those players have stayed longer. No doubt there is, a further study should be able to point to them, for example joining a competent corp, falling in with like minded folks etc will certainly influence player retention. Quote: Basically, you all are inventing results from a study, and would get laughed out of any scientific establishment with your reaching for straws. Have you seen the crap some people pass off as science these days? Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Jenshae Chiroptera 1206	Posted - 2015.04.03 02:43:42 - [419] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: If true, this is the first I've heard about it. Would you have a source for your information? Party 1, "I have studied the density of 80 000 granite pebbles to see if they are more dense than granite rocks. " Party 2, "That is a stupid study because granite is granite and on average they will have the same density under the same conditions." Party 3, "Where is your proof? Have you studied 80 000 granite rocks?" Party 2, "I do not need proof. It is evident that their study is based on a stupid idea to start off with." CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other areas of space, where they can grow. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10548	Posted - 2015.04.03 03:44:18 - [420] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Basically, you all are inventing results from a study, and would get laughed out of any scientific establishment with your reaching for straws. How hard would that laughter be for people who were debunking a case study while having zero information of their own and never having even conducted one of their own? Because that's what's happening here lol. It's no coincidence that the 2 or 3 die hard deniers here are members of the same ideological camp. A camp that at it's base NEEDS non-consensual pvp to be a bad thing.



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