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Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 35499	Posted - 2015.04.04 00:51:55 - [511] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: What if the game checks if there are two newbies online and their next mission is to kill each other? They get kill rights, they see where each other are, they have a time limit, so one can hide if they want but their rookie ship will be replaced ... I think there is some potential in that idea, but within the context of the new opportunities system. A player completing the NPE for the first time, could have an opportunity to mark themselves as available for a pvp opportunity and when another new player does the same, the game matches them up for a duel. That way, the game doesn't have to remember the state of different players and doesn't force the opportunity on either player. They select it when they want. There would be issues around timezones, players being logged in, region the players are located in, vets completing the NPE on an alt (not a bad thing anyway), completing the NPE after you've been in the game for a while and probably many more that could be thought of with a few minutes, but these could be managed if this was seen as something good. The advantage from a new player perspective is that, despite any other pvp encounter in the game, they would have a one-time opportunity to experience pvp when they feel they want to try it. The biggest limitation of the idea I can see though is how does that fit into the broader aims of CCP in terms of providing rich, social experiences for new players. If it is simply one solo player duels another solo player and then they each go their own way again, what has been gained in terms of the overall game experience? I'm not sure at this point, that much is gained other than a single pvp isolated and solo encounter. How can the opportunity be designed to promote both participants into more social play beyond that one encounter? Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Dots State Protectorate Caldari State 25	Posted - 2015.04.04 01:05:39 - [512] - Quote I think you guys have hit the nail on the head. None of the New Player Opportunities (see my sig!).. not a single one has anything to do with interacting with other players. You can point to the one Opportunity that tells you to open a chat or a private convo, but these station spinning activities isn't real EVE interaction (really!). The only other one tells you to sell something and buy something (I also don't see any real opportunity for interaction there). Just like the old tutorial, the Opportunities are showing players how to do stuff completely alone. everything is better with ß¦êß¦Æß¦ù-ó on it New Player Opportunities: a gallery
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1386	Posted - 2015.04.04 01:17:10 - [513] - Quote Dots wrote: I think you guys have hit the nail on the head. None of the New Player Opportunities (see my sig!).. not a single one has anything to do with interacting with other players. You can point to the one Opportunity that tells you to open a chat or a private convo, but these station spinning activities isn't real EVE interaction (really!). The only other one tells you to sell something and buy something (I also don't see any real opportunity for interaction there). Just like the old tutorial, the Opportunities are showing players how to do stuff completely alone. I can't really think of a way in which the tutorial can overcome that limitation. It can only progress you through things it can quantify, social interaction usually being more difficult in that regard. Honestly I'm still of the opinion that letting veterans initiate contact more easily is the best cure for the social ills plaguing the NPE (For instance, allow veterans into NPC corp chats without abandoning their current corps for recruiting/whatever purposes).
Eli Stan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 118	Posted - 2015.04.04 01:19:45 - [514] - Quote Eve Solecist wrote: Eli Stan wrote: Formidable post. But why only every six weeks? What happens the rest of the time? We restock replacement ships, do our normal null thing, get some sleep, go outside, go to work, that sort of stuff. Quote: The Scope Project was some attempt to create a community out of The Scope. I believe they wanted to teach new players, next to other things. Okay, yeah, I heard them mentioned a few times back when I first joined CAS. They were working on setting up something like CAS except for Scope. They'd join us every once in a while and fleet up. Then they moved to a sov alliance, and I really hadn't heard anything since. Quote: Last I checked they seemed to be on the failway, because all that was happening was a constant turnaround. Roams happened ... that's all I remember. I really thought you'd know, but maybe it failcascaded already? Haven't seen anything of their "overlord", forgothisname, for a longer while. Anslo? He struck me as being the sole driving force behind it. It's tough for a single person to maintain the momentum of running a group. That's one of the strong points for CAS - there are a number of folk who can be leaders, but nobody is trying to direct the whole group. We all coexist together in our little purple world, always on coms, helping eachother out as we can, doing our own thing when we want, and from time-to-time stepping up to lead some activity because that's fun too.
Dots State Protectorate Caldari State 25	Posted - 2015.04.04 01:28:26 - [515] - Quote Are you guys confusing Anslo and Scope Works (SWCW) with Vapor Ventrillian? SWCW recently reached 1 trillion ISK destroyed and is part of OE. SWCW was the PVP arm of Scope for a while, and there is a bit of history there. Scope was also much more active at that time. Vapor seems like he's moved on from his empty promises in the anti-ganking realm to even bigger promises he won't be able to keep with null (of course Vector is Vapor's alt). everything is better with ß¦êß¦Æß¦ù-ó on it New Player Opportunities: a gallery
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10583	Posted - 2015.04.04 01:28:47 - [516] - Quote Eli Stan wrote: Non-self reliant: Don't we want such players? The self-reliant player doesn't interact with others, right? CCP says such players are more likely to quit. That's not what self reliant means at all. Most people in corps and alliances have a self reliant attitude, meaning that THEY TRY TO DO THINGS THEMSELVES BEFORE ASKING FOR HELP. The entitled, lazy player demands and expects 'help' without spending a single brain cell trying to figure out a problem for himself, as if other people exist only to do their bidding. Quote: Need to be hand held: One person's hand-holding is another person's teaching. It might sound to you the players who quit wanted somebody to hold their hand, but it sounds to me like they needed the right sensei. Being taught by other players, rather than reading wikis and blogs, is a GOOD thing because it keeps the newbies engaged with the community. And EVE is so complex that we ALL need teaching. Which is a good thing that we like, right? ' Hand holding is "I can't do anything at all unless you tell me how 1st" , like your friend who could figure out that warping is as simple as following the 1st rule of modern computer usage ("When in doubt, RIGHT CLICK"). A good student (or EVE player) will try to figure it out for themselves 1st, then after an acceptable amount of effort, ask for help. Besides, too much teach is bad.
beakerax Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 65	Posted - 2015.04.04 01:31:33 - [517] - Quote Dots wrote: The only other one tells you to sell something and buy something (I also don't see any real opportunity for interaction there). In Rise's 2014 presentation, one of the characteristics of the "isolated" players was that they didn't interact with the market very much. Which consistently blows my mind. I also see a lot of questions on the theme of "I need [skillbook/module/ship], where do I get that?" from brand new players. Reflexively checking the market isn't something they're in the habit of doing. ( I'm not disagreeing with you, these are just some thoughts that came to mind. ) Eli Stan wrote: Okay, yeah, I heard them mentioned a few times back when I first joined CAS. They were working on setting up something like CAS except for Scope. They'd join us every once in a while and fleet up. Then they moved to a sov alliance, and I really hadn't heard anything since. I think you are thinking of Scope Works, run by Anslo, which inexplicably joined TISHU but is now in Overload Everything. The Scope Project was possibly run by Vapor Ventrillian. As far as I know it fizzled out. beaten to the punch!
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10583	Posted - 2015.04.04 01:31:54 - [518] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: I play EVE because it is a tad bit more challenging that most of the other online games and I find solo games a bit lacking in depth with the AI. I was under what is more and more becoming apparent, a misconception that the EVE community was of a calibre above average. So, people disagree with you because what you believe is wrong, and people refrain from voting for you because (to put it politely and based off your own interview) your views are wrong, and somehow now there is a problem with the community, a community you wanted to represent. Aren't you just precious....
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 10583	Posted - 2015.04.04 01:33:56 - [519] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Eli Stan wrote: Non-self reliant: Don't we want such players? The self-reliant player doesn't interact with others, right? CCP says such players are more likely to quit. I don't think self-reliant also has to mean non-social. It can just as easily refer to people that are self-motivated but very social. They don't require other people to generate content for them, but can easily be part of that, while also being the type of player that can generate things for others to do as well. From everything I have ever read of Jenn's posts, I'd be inclined to think that what she was referring to was more the self-reliant player that doesn't whinge when they face a problem, but who goes out and attacks the problem themselves to find a solution; whether solo or as part of a social group. There goes Scipio, saying it better than I can. Exactly so. And I feel the same way about people in real life.
Eli Stan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 118	Posted - 2015.04.04 01:34:28 - [520] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: I can't really think of a way in which the tutorial can overcome that limitation. It can only progress you through things it can quantify, social interaction usually being more difficult in that regard. Honestly I'm still of the opinion that letting veterans initiate contact more easily is the best cure for the social ills plaguing the NPE (For instance, allow veterans into NPC corp chats without abandoning their current corps for recruiting/whatever purposes). Hmm... That's an interesting idea... Instead of putting all new players into a new-player-only chat which just perpetuates the isolation from the general player base, put them into a newbie chat that veteran players can join? During the trial period it's mandatory, but afterwards the newbie can elect to leave that chat. Call it "Ask A Vet" or something, with color coding indicating players who have subscribed. No linking of contracts, in order to help cut down on scamming. (Scamming being a perfectly fine thing later, but lets not skim off the trial accounts just yet...) Of course, this opens an avenue for vets to troll, but that's already possible in NPC corp chat, local chat, etc.

Eli Stan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 118	Posted - 2015.04.04 01:37:05 - [521] - Quote Dots wrote: Are you guys confusing Anslo and Scope Works (SWCW) with Vapor Ventrillian? Quite possibly - I've never heard of Vapor Ventrillian, and with similar names (Scope Works vs Scope Project) we could each be talking entirely two different people and projects without realizing it.
Eli Stan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 118	Posted - 2015.04.04 01:41:40 - [522] - Quote beakerax wrote: In Rise's 2014 presentation, one of the characteristics of the "isolated" players was that they didn't interact with the market very much. Which consistently blows my mind. That one caught my attention too, and puzzled me. It's very difficult to do anything in EVE if you never make use of the market. No purchasing of ships or ammor? No selling of loot and tags? Sounds like somebody who created a trial account, spent a few minutes in station doing who-knows-what, maybe a tutorial or two, then never logging back on...? Maybe instead of the "Earth..." backstory video as an intro, CCP should replace it with the "This is EVE" video.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1386	Posted - 2015.04.04 01:42:41 - [523] - Quote Eli Stan wrote: Tyberius Franklin wrote: I can't really think of a way in which the tutorial can overcome that limitation. It can only progress you through things it can quantify, social interaction usually being more difficult in that regard. Honestly I'm still of the opinion that letting veterans initiate contact more easily is the best cure for the social ills plaguing the NPE (For instance, allow veterans into NPC corp chats without abandoning their current corps for recruiting/whatever purposes). Hmm... That's an interesting idea... Instead of putting all new players into a new-player-only chat which just perpetuates the isolation from the general player base, put them into a newbie chat that veteran players can join? During the trial period it's mandatory, but afterwards the newbie can elect to leave that chat. Call it "Ask A Vet" or something, with color coding indicating players who have subscribed. No linking of contracts, in order to help cut down on scamming. (Scamming being a perfectly fine thing later, but lets not skim off the trial accounts just yet...) Of course, this opens an avenue for vets to troll, but that's already possible in NPC corp chat, local chat, etc. On the subject of trolling, I would hope and believe that the player base at large would generate more good than ill even if it means a few of the most gullible/uninformed become examples for the rest. If that doesn't happen then it means we have a player base that largely lacks concern over molding new blood and keeping them in the game or views that NPE as a gauntlet to weed out the unworthy. Either way the player base can get what it wants out of the NPE and the social aspect is ostensibly solved.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1386	Posted - 2015.04.04 01:49:37 - [524] - Quote Eli Stan wrote: beakerax wrote: In Rise's 2014 presentation, one of the characteristics of the "isolated" players was that they didn't interact with the market very much. Which consistently blows my mind. That one caught my attention too, and puzzled me. It's very difficult to do anything in EVE if you never make use of the market. No purchasing of ships or ammor? No selling of loot and tags? Sounds like somebody who created a trial account, spent a few minutes in station doing who-knows-what, maybe a tutorial or two, then never logging back on...? Maybe instead of the "Earth..." backstory video as an intro, CCP should replace it with the "This is EVE" video. Eve was my first MMO, but as I contrast it to other MMO's I have played, few as they are, none have had a market like this one. It's typically vendors with set items and specific NPC's (class mentors and the like) or locations for anything you would need to advance your character in a specific way. The idea of a unified regional market for everything isn't something common in my MMO experience, so expecting everyone to naturally look for it may be unreasonable on some level. I do agree on the limitations it creates being a factor to cause someone to quit, but it happening doesn't seem far fetched to me at all.
Hengle Teron Just Another Corp XIV 44753	Posted - 2015.04.04 02:11:53 - [525] - Quote Eli Stan wrote: Tyberius Franklin wrote: I can't really think of a way in which the tutorial can overcome that limitation. It can only progress you through things it can quantify, social interaction usually being more difficult in that regard. Honestly I'm still of the opinion that letting veterans initiate contact more easily is the best cure for the social ills plaguing the NPE (For instance, allow veterans into NPC corp chats without abandoning their current corps for recruiting/whatever purposes). Hmm... That's an interesting idea... Instead of putting all new players into a new-player-only chat which just perpetuates the isolation from the general player base, put them into a newbie chat that veteran players can join? During the trial period it's mandatory, but afterwards the newbie can elect to leave that chat. Call it "Ask A Vet" or something, with color coding indicating players who have subscribed. No linking of contracts, in order to help cut down on scamming. (Scamming being a perfectly fine thing later, but lets not skim off the trial accounts just yet...) Of course, this opens an avenue for vets to troll, but that's already possible in NPC corp chat, local chat, etc. There's this thing called the "help" channel, might be of interest to you.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1386	Posted - 2015.04.04 02:17:49 - [526] - Quote Hengle Teron wrote: There's this thing called the "help" channel, might be of interest to you. No, it's not. The traffic is too high to maintain any real conversation. There is also the fact that the channel isn't really made for prolonged interaction between individuals.
Eli Stan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 118	Posted - 2015.04.04 02:43:29 - [527] - Quote Hengle Teron wrote: There's this thing called the "help" channel, might be of interest to you. You mean "English Help" channel? LOL, I never even was aware that existed until just now... (Such chat channels weren't anything I was aware of as a newbie, then once I joined a group I just used them to ask questions.) Sure, repurpose that and make trial accounts auto-join.
Hengle Teron Just Another Corp XIV 44753	Posted - 2015.04.04 02:53:36 - [528] - Quote they do auto join the help channel
Mia Keldarin Escadron leader La Ligue des mondes libres 8	Posted - 2015.04.04 02:57:39 - [529] - Quote Eve Solecist wrote: ... Yeah maybe i should write more about pleasing noobs, i get this exalted feeling when your sweating tears of rage and madness come down on your cheeks each time your trolling fails. And then we'll talk about the pvp experience i had with my indus toon so you'll laugh so hard that you'd eventually choked to asphyxia. "LoL" would be the last word you ever read =) Wouldn't it be nice ?
Eli Stan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 118	Posted - 2015.04.04 03:10:38 - [530] - Quote Hengle Teron wrote: they do auto join the help channel I thought that was the rookie help channel, that they're kicked out of after a while...? Anyway, thanks for the info, I didn't realize newbies were auto-joined to the English Help channel.

ISD Decoy ISD Community Communications Liaisons 450	Posted - 2015.04.04 03:16:44 - [531] - Quote I have removed a disrespectful and ranting post, along with one quoting it. If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. Constructive discussions are encouraged -- but blatant flaming and disrespect will be removed. Quote: 2. Be respectful toward others at all times. The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others. 3. Ranting is prohibited. A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents. ISD Decoy Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Eve Solecist Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 169	Posted - 2015.04.04 08:01:36 - [532] - Quote Eli Stan wrote: Hengle Teron wrote: they do auto join the help channel I thought that was the rookie help channel, that they're kicked out of after a while...? Anyway, thanks for the info, I didn't realize newbies were auto-joined to the English Help channel. I'm not sure he didn't actually mean that one, because you only get forced into rookie-help usually. Makes no sense to have a noob in two helpchats at once, too. That would only be confusing. "Please do not file support tickets to ask if your support ticket will be answered soon." - Actual Quote.
Eve Solecist Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 169	Posted - 2015.04.04 08:06:56 - [533] - Quote Dots wrote: Are you guys confusing Anslo and Scope Works (SWCW) with Vapor Ventrillian? SWCW recently reached 1 trillion ISK destroyed and is part of OE. SWCW was the PVP arm of Scope for a while, and there is a bit of history there. Scope was also much more active at that time. Vapor seems like he's moved on from his empty promises in the anti-ganking realm to even bigger promises he won't be able to keep with null (of course Vector is Vapor's alt). Told him. As usual, people refused to listen to experience and rather believed they are so awesome they can do it themselves. Remind me to rub his failure in his nose. And why did my long post get removed? It was precise and to the point. "Please do not file support tickets to ask if your support ticket will be answered soon." - Actual Quote.
Hengle Teron Just Another Corp XIV 44774	Posted - 2015.04.04 12:35:44 - [534] - Quote Fun fact: According to a rather popular theory, mankind populated the Earth by a series of incests.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12500	Posted - 2015.04.04 13:16:04 - [535] - Quote Eve Solecist wrote: Remind me to rub his failure in his nose. Be sure and link him a few of the articles on minerbumping featuring his penchant for failure. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Eve Solecist Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 171	Posted - 2015.04.04 13:19:25 - [536] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Eve Solecist wrote: Remind me to rub his failure in his nose. Be sure and link him a few of the articles on minerbumping featuring his penchant for failure. I don't read that crap. Didn't even know he tried with anti-ganking. What a fool. "Please do not file support tickets to ask if your support ticket will be answered soon." - Actual Quote. "AND THIS IS WHY THE FEDERATION MUST BE DESTROYED!!" - Diana Kim
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15566	Posted - 2015.04.04 13:23:12 - [537] - Quote Hengle Teron wrote: Fun fact: According to a rather popular theory, mankind populated the Earth by a series of incests. It would explain a few things. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 12500	Posted - 2015.04.04 13:27:35 - [538] - Quote Eve Solecist wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Eve Solecist wrote: Remind me to rub his failure in his nose. Be sure and link him a few of the articles on minerbumping featuring his penchant for failure. I don't read that crap. Didn't even know he tried with anti-ganking. What a fool. Yeah, he was the first one in fact. His sig might still have the link to his blog, where he advocated for miners and carebears to mass report Code members to try and get us all banned. Among other such things. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Eve Solecist Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 172	Posted - 2015.04.04 14:12:18 - [539] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Eve Solecist wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Eve Solecist wrote: Remind me to rub his failure in his nose. Be sure and link him a few of the articles on minerbumping featuring his penchant for failure. I don't read that crap. Didn't even know he tried with anti-ganking. What a fool. Yeah, he was the first one in fact. His sig might still have the link to his blog, where he advocated for miners and carebears to mass report Code members to try and get us all banned. Among other such things. * . . . * That's so stupid, it hurts. What a loser. "Please do not file support tickets to ask if your support ticket will be answered soon." - Actual Quote. "AND THIS IS WHY THE FEDERATION MUST BE DESTROYED!!" - Diana Kim
Johan Civire The Lyran Empire 948	Posted - 2015.04.04 15:10:37 - [540] - Quote Rowells wrote: Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Sibyyl wrote: Apparently there's this huge problem of newbies being griefed out of the game. If you read the NPC corp thread people are equating this 1% ganked statistic to the 90% that drops out of game. So..1% of the time, they are griefed out every time? Wait.... so... does this mean that CCP is catering to the 1%? if my math is correct, that means in reality, 9000% percent of players are quitting because of grieving. True or the (waiting for skill training to compleet for "beginners" are just to long) i guess. Grieving is fun. Like you are trolling the GN forums. Its the same no harm done. Just a little fun. But i guess like in real life people get upset easy.



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