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Aoife Fraoch
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
41
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Posted - 2015.04.26 05:54:33 -
[151] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:Alp Khan wrote:Because they care about their losses to an extend that places a hard limit on what they are willing and able to do. You won't see a pirate group fighting on a grid for prolonged periods. You won't see them commit, unless they are absolutely and positively sure that they won't suffer losses of any kind. Therefore, they can't pursue any dominance and control oriented objective. Those require committing considerable resources. And resources here, do not just mean ISK. On top of ISK, they need well planned and competently executed logistics, adequate leadership and a sufficient number of pilots that can follow orders and fly certain ships. Pirates have neither of these, if they did, they wouldn't be pirates to begin with. This is the standard Goon propaganda that used to work until someone started to analyze the killboard. Let's see the last month, March: - Mordus Angels: 198B - Black Legion.: 124B - Sorry We're In Your Space Eh: 96B Let's compare their performance with the organizations who have all the resources you claim and committed and control oriented and were in a declared invasion against CFC: - DARKNESS.: 65B - Northern Coalition.: 99B - Nulli Secunda: 42B - The Kadeshi: 57B You'd like to paint MoA and -EH- as killboard-masturbating kids who cause trivial damage with high ISK ratio, while in reality they cause more than a whole enemy coalition during an invasion - while upkeeping high ISK ratio. The reason why CFC didn't crush N3 after B-R is that you need them as straw-man. You know that there will always be anti-Goon players and you want them to join these incompetent organizations where they simply burn out. Time and time again one of you suggest me to hire NC. which would cost me 100-200B and be about as effective as investing this money at one of the ISK doubling services in Jita. N3 is merely a black hole that swallows all the anti-CFC and elite-aspirant players, stopping them from finding or forming a group that is (or has the chance to become) a threat.
How much space did they take? How many stations captured and dead zoned? You know, how much actual impact?
Also you are cherry picking yet again. I would love working with someone like you, I enjoy tearing bad analysis apart with an audience.
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Alp Khan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
322
|
Posted - 2015.04.26 12:10:52 -
[152] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote: You'd like to paint MoA and -EH- as killboard-masturbating kids who cause trivial damage with high ISK ratio, while in reality they cause more than a whole enemy coalition during an invasion - while upkeeping high ISK ratio.
I never called MoA and -EH- that, but now that you mentioned the definition... But I'd agree with only the first part of your sentence. That is precisely what they are. "Killboard-masturbing kids" as a definition is hilariously accurate. These groups have nothing else to show for any claim towards significance, so killboards bloated with AFK ratters who didn't pay attention and haulers who didn't follow safety procedures are the only metric they can come up with to instill a false sense of significance among their member base.
Ironically, as your own words reveal, you are able to come up with a good analogy and a definition for those pirate groups no one takes seriously. I suspect this is a direct result of your self-awareness regarding their insignificance. And do not assume that readers of this thread are not picking up your hasty retreats towards logical fallacies; you seem to be frequenting straw-man arguments in particular.
Why? Because no serious commentator mentions damage caused in ISK from killboards or ISK ratios in the case of war against a null sovereign entity. It simply is a metric of no consequence. Large alliances such as those who make up Imperium are inherently and independently wealthy as they maintain an active member base. The Imperium is a well governed and administrated coalition, and thus, accumulated wealth is able to be utilized towards achievement of it's goals with high efficiency.
In contrast, the pirate groups you keep up pampering have terrible leadership cadres. Incompetence and inability to think strategically combined with inability to innovate are rampant, if not outright the norm. I don't follow the actions of -EH- each and every day as they cannot project any presence towards Deklein; but MoA is MoA because of such a lack of talent. If one actually takes time to observe how MoA operates daily regarding roams and CTAs, the inevitable realization is that they don't even have multiple competent FCs. At best, I can only mention two MoA FCs that I can comfortably attest to being somehow competent. One doesn't even have to take this assessment at face value coming from me, any MoA partner/ally who has worked with them can attest to this. |
Alp Khan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
322
|
Posted - 2015.04.26 12:58:27 -
[153] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote: Time and time again one of you suggest me to hire NC. which would cost me 100-200B and be about as effective as investing this money at one of the ISK doubling services in Jita.
I'm glad that even in your bull/spin propaganda post, there is a good glimpse of truth. Hence, I wanted to quote this specifically. Yes, we know you are too poor to afford a proper PvP competent mercenary group like BL, PL or NC. You can't hope to hold even one of these groups on retainer for more than three months, and that is if only they agree to take you on as a client for cheap.
And yeah, it would be no more effective than sending an incompetent and insignificant group like MoA scraps every week and claiming that everything they do (which is not much) is happening solely because of you.
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Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
2404
|
Posted - 2015.04.26 13:43:17 -
[154] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:Let's see the March: Let's see Marmites the last 5 days.This contract was paid properly
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - DELETE THE WEAK , ADAPT OR DIE !
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Syds Sinclair
Pan-Galactic Assembly
254
|
Posted - 2015.04.26 14:04:23 -
[155] - Quote
..Eve literally turned Gevlon crazy.
Back in his WoW days, his blog posts were very useful and thought out, even if he did go overboard every now and then with his hate for "M&S".
Eve Gevlon is a completely different person. It surprises me to this day that he continues to cite logical fallacies and straw men argruments as fact. I'm not even sure if it's all to save face at this point. Eve is a cold harsh place and not everyone is up to the task, as demenstrated in Gevlon.
Eve turned Gevlon from a rational economical goal driven gamer into a pitiful attention seeker full of denial.
Gevlon is the Village Idiot, on the galactic scale. His blog is front page headline news of the galactic idiot's latest blunder. |
Antylus Tyrell
Uedama Artisan Jams
8
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Posted - 2015.04.26 14:21:57 -
[156] - Quote
Yes yes, Gevlon is crazy and MOA is irrelevant and suck. So ignore Gevlon and send your fleets out to crush MOA... They only have one or two good fcs, how hard could it be?
Oh wait you have all tried numerous times and always failed. And Gevlons "crazy" graphs show truths that you find embarrassing.
Writing essay length answers explaining why MOA and Gevlon are irrelevant kinda gives the opposite impression.... just a tip to the CFC dudes in charge of that stuff. |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
403
|
Posted - 2015.04.26 18:35:29 -
[157] - Quote
@Alp Khan: writing 2 pages of bold letter propaganda may make people avoid actually reading it so they might not notice that you didn't even try to answer what I wrote. So I repeat: - Mordus Angels causes 3x more damage to CFC than NC during an invasion. - so, hiring NC. is pointless, as they are hilariously incompentent. - CFC purposefully avoids crushing NC. because the NC. propaganda makes competent PvP-ers join and be harmless while they could join MoA and defeat you. You want to "are you chicken McFly" me into supporting NC. because giving them money is total waste.
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
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Syds Sinclair
Pan-Galactic Assembly
254
|
Posted - 2015.04.26 18:49:55 -
[158] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:@Alp Khan: writing 2 pages of bold letter propaganda may make people avoid actually reading it so they might not notice that you didn't even try to answer what I wrote. So I repeat: - Mordus Angels causes 3x more damage to CFC than NC during an invasion. - so, hiring NC. is pointless, as they are hilariously incompentent. - CFC purposefully avoids crushing NC. because the NC. propaganda makes competent PvP-ers join and be harmless while they could join MoA and defeat you. You want to "are you chicken McFly" me into supporting NC. because giving them money is total waste.
..Fix: MoA does 3x more in ISK losses then NC.
MoA doesn't damage the CFC because they are not a threat to the CFC's sov.
NC. targets the CFC's sov, the thing that makes the CFC the CFC: A dominate sov holding coalition.
He is simply pointing out that the forces you are hiring are attacking the wrong objective.
This is classic Eve Gevlon. Purposfully obtuse to further his own interests. |
Alp Khan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
325
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 16:41:29 -
[159] - Quote
Antylus Tyrell wrote:Yes yes, Gevlon is crazy and MOA is irrelevant and suck. So ignore Gevlon and send your fleets out to crush MOA... They only have one or two good fcs, how hard could it be?
Oh wait you have all tried numerous times and always failed. And Gevlons "crazy" graphs show truths that you find embarrassing.
Writing essay length answers explaining why MOA and Gevlon are irrelevant kinda gives the opposite impression.... just a tip to the CFC dudes in charge of that stuff.
Only thing that failed are Gevlon's laughably off claims and ridiculous attempts of presenting cooked off numbers to make his constant failure appear like a success.
Gevlon skews statistics methodology to be able to find a reason, or in this case, any reason to present his blunders or inability to take on the largest and most powerful sov null coalition under a favorable light.
You don't strike me as a person that received higher education. If you were, you'd be picking up on Gevlon's fallacies with ease. To help you comprehend, I will compile some of the logical fallacies Gevlon employs to try and manipulate masses and lie to their faces and post them here shortly. |
Alp Khan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
325
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 17:50:40 -
[160] - Quote
Gevlon's most favored logical fallacy is called the Texas sharpshooter.
It is defined as "cherry-picking data clusters to suit an argument, or finding a pattern to fit a presumption."
Example:
Gevlon claims when damage dealt and damage received in ISK value is recalculated according to his own personal methodology, it reveals that Mordus Angels deal more damage in ISK value to the Imperium on a time period that he gets to pick based on it's ability to yields numbers favorable to his argument. Therefore, Gevlon concludes that the biggest enemy of the Imperium coalition (please don't laugh) and that Mordus have the best PvP skilled players in EVE (I know it's difficult, but please don't laugh, at least not just yet)
Why?
Because no matter how many times one recalculates damage values and ratios to suit his own needs, MoA kills on AFK ratters and careless haulers is only pertinent to the Imperium's line member retention. If MoA or any other pirate group could do something significant, alliances that make up the Imperium would have been bleeding out members at a constant rate and the Imperium would have collapsed long by now. This obviously hasn't been the case. Other than that, damage dealt on random afk ratters and careless haulers has nothing to do with the strength and well being of a coalition, and Gevlon commits another fallacy by implying killing AFK ratters and careless haulers in no risk and no commit instawarp interceptors and cloaky ships is an activity that requires a lot of skill. It isn't, but still, Gevlon would like you to think that pirate groups are the best PvP players in EVE.
The second favorite fallacy of Gevlon is called black or white.
It is defined as "Where two alternative states are presented as the only possibilities, when in fact more possibilities exist."
Example:
Gevlon posits that because he sends a few billions every week to some pirate groups, all AFK ratter and careless hauler kills those groups get are his. He claims that any change in activity patterns of such groups is due to him sending a few billions to them occasionally, and without him, those groups wouldn't have been effective at all.
Why?
Gevlon wants you to think that there are only two mutually exclusive states: He either sends them peanuts routinely and because of that, pirates are able to get kills, or he doesn't send them anything, and pirates suddenly find themselves unable to kill AFK ratters and careless haulers. He wants you to think he is relevant or significant because he sends a few billions every once in a while to what he defined before as "a bunch of kids masturbating over killboard values".
The third fallacy of Gevlon is called burden of proof.
It is defined as "Saying that the burden of proof lies not with the person making the claim, but with someone else to disprove."
Example:
Gevlon provides a flawed texas sharpshooter argument with the cooked up statistics of his creation, and is unable to come up with any sensible premise or evidence that connects his flawed argument to the hilariously unrealistic conclusion he is pushing hard to sell here. When anyone points those out, Gevlon asks them for proof and refuses to provide any valid proof of his own.
Why?
Gevlon isn't really interested in rational thought or argumentation, he is merely trying to make you believe into something that is obviously untrue.
Fourth and fifth logical fallacies Gevlon often employs are called strawman and false cause.
Strawman is "Misrepresenting someoneGÇÖs argument to make it easier to attack."
Example: Gevlon takes the fact that pirate groups are ineffective and insignificant to undermine a sovereign null entity such as Imperium, combines it another valid point provided by someone else "Mordus provides us content through their failed ratter hotdrops" and claims that those cannot be true at the same time, and existence of one disproves the other.
Why? Propaganda and wanting to firmly place his failure under a favorable light.
False cause is "Presuming that a real or perceived relationship between things means that one is the cause of the other."
Example: Gevlon claims that the Imperium is only succesful because they fool EVE community into believing that they are not elite PvP players, and that their opponents as elite PvP. He concludes that the Imperium actually must be an elite PvP group and the Imperium's opponents are in fact without skill and only employ mass number tactics, and because Imperium fools them into thinking otherwise, Imperium's opponents are unable to fix their shortcomings.
Why? Gevlon is desperate for any frivolous claim to cast some positive light in his failed endeavor. He is willing to include any amount of ridiculousness just to be able to use it for his benefit.
I believe the above definitions and examples will be able to help readers understand the nature of Gevlon's ridiculous propaganda and attempts at manipulation. |
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Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
404
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 18:47:35 -
[161] - Quote
Alp Khan yet again provided a few pages of copy-paste from wikipedia to avoid even trying to address anything that was mentioned. Namely that he claims that NC. is a serious enemy of CFC who deserves support (both ISK and pilot hours) while MoA is not, despite NC. failed every strategic attempt against CFC in the past years and their killboard is a joke.
Please note that he was the first in the topic who even mentioned NC., previous propagandists went by the old "MoA is irrelevant" or "MoA just provides content."
Now, I indeed cannot prove that MoA can defeat CFC. MoA clearly haven't destroyed the CFC yet. My point is that if the CFC is defeatable, then it will be MoA who do it, since they are the #1 CFC killers for months in a row.
"MoA doesn't take Sov" is true, but irrelevants since no one takes CFC Sov, the CFC won every single Sov war since I'm in EVE. The only reason they don't have all the Sov is that they give to badly chosen allies who failcascade/turn on them/get stomped when CFC leaves. The question is who should we place our hopes on? - MoA who takes no Sov but kills lots of member ships and lose little - NC. and other N3 entities who take no Sov, kill few CFC ships and lose a lot in return
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
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Big Lynx
1266
|
Posted - 2015.04.27 19:45:57 -
[162] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:..Eve literally turned Gevlon crazy.
Back in his WoW days, his blog posts were very useful and thought out, even if he did go overboard every now and then with his hate for "M&S".
Eve Gevlon is a completely different person. It surprises me to this day that he continues to cite logical fallacies and straw men argruments as fact. I'm not even sure if it's all to save face at this point. Eve is a cold harsh place and not everyone is up to the task, as demenstrated in Gevlon.
Eve turned Gevlon from a rational economical goal driven gamer into a pitiful attention seeker full of denial.
Gevlon is the Village Idiot, on the galactic scale. His blog is front page headline news of the galactic idiot's latest blunder. So true. |
Eyrun Mangeiri
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
30
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 04:30:32 -
[163] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:- CFC purposefully avoids crushing NC. because the NC. propaganda makes competent PvP-ers join and be harmless while they could join MoA and defeat you. You want to "are you chicken McFly" me into supporting NC. because giving them money is total waste.
If I were competent at PvP and looking for a new home I would join PL, or BL but not MoA. Killing AFK ratters is not exciting. Crushing multiple alliances at the same time and turning the tide of a war like PL did is fun.
I can see what you see not - vision milky then eyes rot. When you turn they will be gone - whispering their hidden song.
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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
683
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 12:50:50 -
[164] - Quote
Eyrun Mangeiri wrote:Gevlon Goblin wrote:- CFC purposefully avoids crushing NC. because the NC. propaganda makes competent PvP-ers join and be harmless while they could join MoA and defeat you. You want to "are you chicken McFly" me into supporting NC. because giving them money is total waste.
If I were competent at PvP and looking for a new home I would join PL, or BL but not MoA. Killing AFK ratters is not exciting. Crushing multiple alliances at the same time and turning the tide of a war like PL did is fun.
Suddenly squish.
Also, to keep the conversation going...
We're better than everyone. And we have jackets to prove it.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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Gericht
Delusions of Adequacy Get Off My Lawn
6
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 15:10:42 -
[165] - Quote
Quick question for Gevlon. You keep assuming that because you give an alliance money ALL kills they make can be directly attributed to you. Now that you have discontinued your support for the fountain core, are you going to do one of your extensive analyses to show that is true? It's real easy. Check the amount killed when you supported versus the amount killed versus the amount when you do not support. The difference should be your effect. You can use that to , as you say, de-***** your contribution. Then you can apply that to MOA and get a real estimate of your effect on the Imperium instead of just claiming all their work as your own. I'm surprised you've never done such an analysis as you spend so much time on that with regards to a person's killboard. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5536
|
Posted - 2015.04.28 15:15:35 -
[166] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:Alp Khan yet again provided a few pages of copy-paste from wikipedia to avoid even trying to address anything that was mentioned. Namely that he claims that NC. is a serious enemy of CFC who deserves support (both ISK and pilot hours) while MoA is not, despite NC. failed every strategic attempt against CFC in the past years and their killboard is a joke. Actually, it's been answered multiple times, you've simply ignored it because you don't understand how EVE works. MoA don't achieve any strategic objectives, NC. do. So no matter how many bling fit kills they get on their killboard they'll still be no threat to a significant sov holding alliance. You ignore this now as you always ignore facts. You have preconceived opinions of what you think the facts are and you keep working the data in different ways and ignoring everything that doesn't match what you think until you satisfy your own thoughts, regardless of how ridiculous it looks to an external party. Amusingly from you're own figures, you've accidentally shown that the losses caused to the entire coalition could be written off by ratting income alone, and yet that's another fact you've glossed over.
Let's make it really simple - If MoA were as significant a threat as you make them out to be, then we would be destroyed or rapidly heading on our way to destruction. We're not. So I guess MoA are as irrelevant as everyone else is.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Antylus Tyrell
Uedama Artisan Jams
10
|
Posted - 2015.04.29 02:08:08 -
[167] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Gevlon Goblin wrote:Alp Khan yet again provided a few pages of copy-paste from wikipedia to avoid even trying to address anything that was mentioned. Namely that he claims that NC. is a serious enemy of CFC who deserves support (both ISK and pilot hours) while MoA is not, despite NC. failed every strategic attempt against CFC in the past years and their killboard is a joke. Actually, it's been answered multiple times, you've simply ignored it because you don't understand how EVE works. MoA don't achieve any strategic objectives, NC. do. So no matter how many bling fit kills they get on their killboard they'll still be no threat to a significant sov holding alliance. You ignore this now as you always ignore facts. You have preconceived opinions of what you think the facts are and you keep working the data in different ways and ignoring everything that doesn't match what you think until you satisfy your own thoughts, regardless of how ridiculous it looks to an external party. Amusingly from you're own figures, you've accidentally shown that the losses caused to the entire coalition could be written off by ratting income alone, and yet that's another fact you've glossed over. Let's make it really simple - If MoA were as significant a threat as you make them out to be, then we would be destroyed or rapidly heading on our way to destruction. We're not. So I guess MoA are as irrelevant as everyone else is.
MOA has no interest in taking sov. They are an insurgent force fighting a guerrilla war against a massive enemy. So you say what they kill does not matter but what does matter is how many systems they control in a sov system that most people cannot be bothered with because it is so broken? Yes you cfc people have lots of systems... have fun with that.
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Gericht
Delusions of Adequacy Get Off My Lawn
6
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Posted - 2015.04.29 05:17:00 -
[168] - Quote
Antylus Tyrell wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Gevlon Goblin wrote:Alp Khan yet again provided a few pages of copy-paste from wikipedia to avoid even trying to address anything that was mentioned. Namely that he claims that NC. is a serious enemy of CFC who deserves support (both ISK and pilot hours) while MoA is not, despite NC. failed every strategic attempt against CFC in the past years and their killboard is a joke. Actually, it's been answered multiple times, you've simply ignored it because you don't understand how EVE works. MoA don't achieve any strategic objectives, NC. do. So no matter how many bling fit kills they get on their killboard they'll still be no threat to a significant sov holding alliance. You ignore this now as you always ignore facts. You have preconceived opinions of what you think the facts are and you keep working the data in different ways and ignoring everything that doesn't match what you think until you satisfy your own thoughts, regardless of how ridiculous it looks to an external party. Amusingly from you're own figures, you've accidentally shown that the losses caused to the entire coalition could be written off by ratting income alone, and yet that's another fact you've glossed over. Let's make it really simple - If MoA were as significant a threat as you make them out to be, then we would be destroyed or rapidly heading on our way to destruction. We're not. So I guess MoA are as irrelevant as everyone else is. MOA has no interest in taking sov. They are an insurgent force fighting a guerrilla war against a massive enemy. So you say what they kill does not matter but what does matter is how many systems they control in a sov system that most people cannot be bothered with because it is so broken? Yes you cfc people have lots of systems... have fun with that.
I don't think anyone here is saying MOA is bad at what they do. Their playstyle is the 'lets see what quick expensive kills we can get' And they do this by targeting AFK ratters, careless haulers and targets of oppertunity. And they do this well. However, they are doing this against a target that can easily absorb these losses without it impacting it, which is also the smart thing to do. It's kinda like hunting. You don't target the herd that will die off if you hunt it, you target the herd that will recoup its losses so you can keep hunting. And this is where Gevlons logic fails. He assumes that MOA is able to destroy the Imperium by actions that have been shown to not affect the Imperium's ability to survive.
On a personal level, where I a MOA pilot, I would be annoyed at Gevlon's rethoric that claims that because he tosses MOA spare change every month, each and every succes made by MOA pilots and MOA FC's is actually his. With the added implication that before Gevlon's charity MOA was utterly helpless. I suspect that were the donations to stop there would be no significant change in the amount of kills by MOA. But hey, free money :) |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5539
|
Posted - 2015.04.29 06:54:36 -
[169] - Quote
Antylus Tyrell wrote:MOA has no interest in taking sov. They are an insurgent force fighting a guerrilla war against a massive enemy. So you say what they kill does not matter but what does matter is how many systems they control in a sov system that most people cannot be bothered with because it is so broken? Yes you cfc people have lots of systems... have fun with that. Great, MoA don't want sov. Then they will never take down our coalition. It's really that simple. You can call it guerilla war if you want, but even guerilla war has overall strategic aims. This isn't war at all, it's just going out and getting some kills for fun. Nothing wrong with that of course, but Gevlon's idea that we're gonna lose some ratters then collapse to the ground screaming "the end is nigh!" is ludicrous, anyone with even vague ideas of what common sense is should be able to see that.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
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Big Lynx
1269
|
Posted - 2015.04.29 06:58:16 -
[170] - Quote
Gericht wrote:
On a personal level, where I a MOA pilot, I would be annoyed at Gevlon's rethoric that claims that because he tosses MOA spare change every month, each and every succes made by MOA pilots and MOA FC's is actually his. With the added implication that before Gevlon's charity MOA was utterly helpless.
The only thing Gevlin wants is attention, he is bathing in it and singing, cause he seems to have some fetish or disorder regarding to it (maybe because of insufficient rl capacities/activites) . We give him enough fodder, so he doesn't stop to post irrelevant nonsense claiming to be relevant.
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Antylus Tyrell
Uedama Artisan Jams
10
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Posted - 2015.04.29 10:35:41 -
[171] - Quote
Gericht wrote: On a personal level, where I a MOA pilot, I would be annoyed at Gevlon's rethoric that claims that because he tosses MOA spare change every month, each and every succes made by MOA pilots and MOA FC's is actually his. With the added implication that before Gevlon's charity MOA was utterly helpless. I suspect that were the donations to stop there would be no significant change in the amount of kills by MOA. But hey, free money :)
I doubt any MOA pilot would see it that way. I was in MOA before Gevlons donations and after, and there was a real tangible difference. Before, alliance FC's were more hesitant to use more expensive doctrines, if you lost a ship on a strategic op you would get a gift "basket" of captured loot for your srp. Everyone was expected to buy and replace their own ships. After the donations started you could expect to see your srp in isk form minutes after the end of an op.
It meant that we killed more, since we did not have to worry as much about funding our pvp. So yeah I would be happy to give Gevlon credit for many of my kills. |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
405
|
Posted - 2015.04.30 17:35:45 -
[172] - Quote
You still deny to see the problem here: no one takes CFC Sov. So MoA not taking it is irrelevant statement. My point is that MoA at least does something that at least annoys some CFC pilots. Others do nothing. So our options are: - MoA (and other similar non-sov taking, CFC killing groups) - give up
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
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Gericht
Delusions of Adequacy Get Off My Lawn
7
|
Posted - 2015.05.01 04:20:34 -
[173] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:You still deny to see the problem here: no one takes CFC Sov. So MoA not taking it is irrelevant statement. My point is that MoA at least does something that at least annoys some CFC pilots. Others do nothing. So our options are: - MoA (and other similar non-sov taking, CFC killing groups) - give up
If your goal is to annoy some Imperium pilots temporarily, you are indeed succeeding. If your goal is to subsidize MOA so they roam more your are also succeeding. If your goal is to create more content for both sides, you are also succeeding.
But your stated goal is that your donations will destroy the Imperium. And that is where you are clearly not succeeding. Part of this is that I gather from your posts here and your blog that you truly do not understand how other people might still enjoy the game when they are not killboard green or squeezing the maximum amount of ISK/hour out of it. For many of us ISK is a tool, not a goal. A tool to buy the ships we need for the goal of entertaining ourselves for a few hours. And as long as we get enough of that it's utterly irrellevant that it is theorethically possible to get more.
If you truly want to destroy the Imperium you'd be much better off starting a good in/out game dating service as RL commitments to a families is what makes CEO's / FC's and other admistrative types eventually quit. |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
410
|
Posted - 2015.05.02 17:33:52 -
[174] - Quote
Gericht wrote:If your goal is to annoy some Imperium pilots temporarily, you are indeed succeeding. If your goal is to subsidize MOA so they roam more your are also succeeding. If your goal is to create more content for both sides, you are also succeeding. But your stated goal is that your donations will destroy the Imperium. And that is where you are clearly not succeeding. That's obvious. The pure fact that the Imperium still stands shows that I have not succeeded. Yet.
Also, I'm just one man, how on Earth could I destroy a 40K coalition? In 2014 the damage increase of MoA since the donations and the permawar of Marmite caused 5% of CFC losses. +5% damage obviously won't destroy anything. But imagine 20 Gevlons. That's +100% damage. That would clearly make difference. Winning 20 v 40000 would be pretty good.
Of course I'm not 20, just one. All I can do is showing what I alone can achieve to motivate people to step up and do the same instead of following orders from someone who begs money from me while drunk.
I also want to show PvP pilots that MoA and similar organizations are the real elite and not PL or NC. who fail to defeat anything but BRAVE or infighting Russians.
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
683
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Posted - 2015.05.03 03:18:53 -
[175] - Quote
Look at my killboard, I'm elite too! ...except that my solo kills are probably in the single digits... or lower. But since I mostly fly dps on this character, the stats should be pretty good even when de-whored.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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Gericht
Delusions of Adequacy Get Off My Lawn
8
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Posted - 2015.05.03 04:51:21 -
[176] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:Gericht wrote:If your goal is to annoy some Imperium pilots temporarily, you are indeed succeeding. If your goal is to subsidize MOA so they roam more your are also succeeding. If your goal is to create more content for both sides, you are also succeeding. But your stated goal is that your donations will destroy the Imperium. And that is where you are clearly not succeeding. That's obvious. The pure fact that the Imperium still stands shows that I have not succeeded. Yet. Also, I'm just one man, how on Earth could I destroy a 40K coalition? In 2014 the damage increase of MoA since the donations and the permawar of Marmite caused 5% of CFC losses. +5% damage obviously won't destroy anything. But imagine 20 Gevlons. That's +100% damage. That would clearly make difference. Winning 20 v 40000 would be pretty good. Of course I'm not 20, just one. All I can do is showing what I alone can achieve to motivate people to step up and do the same instead of following orders from someone who begs money from me while drunk. I also want to show PvP pilots that MoA and similar organizations are the real elite and not PL or NC. who fail to defeat anything but BRAVE or infighting Russians.
And this is where you once again show not to truly understand how to apply statistics to a real world, or game worlds as it may be. You've shown this before, with your advices on how to make money and your error seems to be the assumption of some unlimited pool of ISK goods, demand and players. This is not the case, EVE is sharply limited in all of those. If 20 people did what you did barely anything would change. Because while give ISK to MOA lets them fly shinier ships it does not help them recruit. There are only so many people that like their form of playstyle and the vast majority of those are already in MOA or similar NPC null corporations. At the same time, IF their actions become annoying enough to distrupt the ISK flow of the Imperium there will be more active fleets countering them, whereas MOA's preferred targets are unaware ratters/haulers. Thus lowering their potential targets. If that is not enough, AFK ratters will just make a neutral highsec alt and run missions for ISK a while, nearly completely removing targets, which means MOA gets bored and either has to go full sov attack or move out, which is the opposite of what you want.
But this first assumes 20 players who like you seem to be content day trading and running obscure mission lines all without cutting into each others profit, who then need to also share your (RP-ed or not) dislike of the Imperium. So far that number of players appears to be 1. |
Leto Thule
Origin. Black Legion.
2456
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Posted - 2015.05.03 05:38:18 -
[177] - Quote
Titan.
Are you an asshole? Do you like flying with other assholes? Can you listen to the FC and not be horribad?
Origin. is recruiting!
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2884
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Posted - 2015.05.03 07:10:45 -
[178] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Also, I'm just one man, how on Earth could I destroy a 40K coalition? In 2014 the damage increase of MoA since the donations and the permawar of Marmite caused 5% of CFC losses. +5% damage obviously won't destroy anything. But imagine 20 Gevlons. That's +100% damage. That would clearly make difference. Winning 20 v 40000 would be pretty good.
SHIVERRRRRRRRR , HELL no .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Nilaie
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2015.05.03 08:48:19 -
[179] - Quote
I've been gone for a year... There are a few things that haven't changed.. Spaceship Barbie is still in Amarr selling 1 trit for 3.2 billion isk, isk doublers, Boom Boom Longtime's bounty (probably higher now), and Gevs mindless ramble.
I am in the actuarial science profession for an insurance company and Gevs, the way you break down your data it's as if you want something to be there. Some of the conclusions you come to I can't even follow. |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
411
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Posted - 2015.05.04 16:53:07 -
[180] - Quote
The April data is ready. The top CFC killer is once again Mordus Angels with 153B Second place: Out of Sight.: 128B Third: The Marmite Collective: 94B
NC. did 64B during an ongoing war. Anyone wants to place his trust in them instead of Mordus?
My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
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