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75 bill for a BPO, Wake up CCP?

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bundy bear	Posted - 2006.10.22 02:22:00 - [1] One person being able to win a 75 billion isk BPO out of pure luck is just rediculous. When will CCP finally wake up and release three or four times as many BPO's to fix the market.
Padack Dark Star Combine Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.22 02:23:00 - [2] And how is that going to fix the market sir?
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.22 02:27:00 - [3] what exactly is so rediculous about an extremely rare and valuable item being sold for an extremely high price? My thoughts are my own and do not reflect those of my Corp/Alliance
bundy bear	Posted - 2006.10.22 02:32:00 - [4] Because its making EVE all about luck. Getting tech II BPO's is a lottery not a profession. If there were 3 times as many BPO's Then the ships might sell for a reasonable price so more people can fly them.
Father Weebles Panzershrek Blood Raiders Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.22 02:33:00 - [5] because ccp wants everybody to move to 00 where alliances have lots of the t2 bpos. if ccp really wanted to change tech2 they wouldve done it a long time ago... "Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control."
themule Caldari Insane Decision	Posted - 2006.10.22 02:38:00 - [6] Originally by: Father Weebles because ccp wants everybody to move to 00 where alliances have lots of the t2 bpos. if ccp really wanted to change tech2 they wouldve done it a long time ago... 1) They are changing T2, check invention. 2) If everyone moved to 0.0 we whould have the same supply demand problem.
Afonso Henriques Minmatar Low Grade Ore The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.10.22 02:39:00 - [7] I really doubt invention is going to do uch sadly.
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2006.10.22 02:40:00 - [8] So then 3 times as many people get lucky and can make a load (albeit not so much individually) of isk for doing nothing? Kinda hypocritical don't u think?
Reiisha Frontier Technologies	Posted - 2006.10.22 02:44:00 - [9] The reason you wouldn't make those BPO's available via normal 'skills' (farm that much ore, train that many skills, do that many missions) is that the market would be flooded eventually by too many of them. Market dynamics between players would become completely useless since everyone can build it themselves - kinda what happens in other games. To keep the economy healthy the BPO's need to be regulated and limited, as strange as this may sound. But remember, this is a game, not the real world, so while the end result will be the same, the way it's achieved is a bit different. EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
Eilie Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.22 02:44:00 - [10] Originally by: bundy bear One person being able to win a 75 billion isk BPO out of pure luck is just rediculous. When will CCP finally wake up and release three or four times as many BPO's to fix the market. Releasing more BPOs with the same retarded system isn't the answer. The real answer (which will get me flamed by every T2 BPO owner) is really simple: Step 1) Change all current T2 BPOs to BPCs. Step 2) Either (a) Have T2 items only be created through the new invention system or (b) intruduce a fair way in which all players can get T2 BPOs. An example of a fair method would be having research agents RP work the same way as a normal agents LP. Than you could get an offer for a HAC BPO for something like 100k RP (which is about a years worth) and 1 billion ISK.
zeKzn Empire of Destiny	Posted - 2006.10.22 02:48:00 - [11] Originally by: bundy bear Because its making EVE all about luck. Getting tech II BPO's is a lottery not a profession. If there were 3 times as many BPO's Then the ships might sell for a reasonable price so more people can fly them. all of moneymaking is based on luck, to a large extent, even. its luck when you get a module worth 50mil off of a rat and someone else gets 100 antimatter s ammo off of it. the only difference is the return and the number of winners, which scale. My thoughts are my own and do not reflect those of my Corp/Alliance
Ariel Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.22 02:58:00 - [12] Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 22/10/2006 02:58:35 Originally by: Eilie Releasing more BPOs with the same retarded system isn't the answer. The real answer (which will get me flamed by every T2 BPO owner) is really simple: Step 1) Change all current T2 BPOs to BPCs. Step 2) Either (a) Have T2 items only be created through the new invention system or (b) intruduce a fair way in which all players can get T2 BPOs. An example of a fair method would be having research agents RP work the same way as a normal agents LP. Than you could get an offer for a HAC BPO for something like 100k RP (which is about a years worth) and 1 billion ISK. Sounds like the best solution to me, and people with T2 BPOs have probably printed off enough ISK to buy a few decades worth of GTCs and you'd only be ticking off a few players (as there are so few copies of T2 BPOs) who don't even pay to play (as their BPOs buy all the GTCs they want).
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.22 03:01:00 - [13] Ehh, the game has a component of luck, yes. Saying "the game is all about luck" is wrong. Some days you hit the jackpot, that's GOOD. Now kindly, go back to your hole. :P [ore mongers, recruiting]
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2006.10.22 03:12:00 - [14] Originally by: bundy bear rediculous. Ridiculous* Also posting in a T2 thread. Flooding the market with T2 BPOS is not a good idea at all either. Oh well, all we can do is wait for invention and T2 BPO seeds in the lottery.
EchoTheDolphin	Posted - 2006.10.22 03:20:00 - [15] Originally by: bundy bear One person being able to win a 75 billion isk BPO out of pure luck is just rediculous. When will CCP finally wake up and release three or four times as many BPO's to fix the market. Everyone should get one, it would work out perfectly, just like the real life form of communism.
Torquemanda Corteaz Gallente Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.22 03:33:00 - [16] eve life just like the real thing isnt fair, get used to it
Tareen Kashaar eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.22 04:06:00 - [17] Originally by: Gamer4liff Flooding the market with T2 BPOS is not a good idea at all either. From which point of view? From mine, it's a great idea. T2 ship and mod inflation is just ridiculous. More bpos = supply increasing with same demand = lower prices overall. Good thing from a buyer's point of view. Market will still regulate itself --- WTS: Forum Signatures, 30mil a piece. Evemail me!
Taedrin Gallente Mercatoris Technologies	Posted - 2006.10.22 04:10:00 - [18] Econ 101. People have unlimited wants in a world of limited resources. MMOs currently have the problem in that their worlds have unlimited resources. This leads to mudflation and oversaturates the market. It makes player professions unprofitable and destroys the game's economy. Be limiting the number of T2 BPOs in circulation, CCP guarantees that T2 ships will always be expensive items, even after years of mudflation.
Agent Kenshin Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.22 04:24:00 - [19] Originally by: Tareen Kashaar Originally by: Gamer4liff Flooding the market with T2 BPOS is not a good idea at all either. From which point of view? From mine, it's a great idea. T2 ship and mod inflation is just ridiculous. More bpos = supply increasing with same demand = lower prices overall. Good thing from a buyer's point of view. Market will still regulate itself The price isnt going to go down. All that does is change where the most profit is being made. It transfers the money from the BPO owners to those who moon mine and make the materials needed for t2 production. The materials to make t2 bpos are limited by the current game mechanics and there for the t2 bpos are also limited. ----- Station Invunerablity POS Module
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.10.22 04:30:00 - [20] Originally by: Taedrin Econ 101. People have unlimited wants in a world of limited resources. MMOs currently have the problem in that their worlds have unlimited resources. This leads to mudflation and oversaturates the market. It makes player professions unprofitable and destroys the game's economy. Be limiting the number of T2 BPOs in circulation, CCP guarantees that T2 ships will always be expensive items, even after years of mudflation. This is correct and Invention will put in place mechanics to allow CCP to tweak the price levels of T2 products as they see fit. If they feel the price of an item is too high, they can and will seed more tools for invention of that item until the price drops to a 'suitable' level. But rest assured that some items will always remain expensive, while others will fluctuate according to some unseen will. Why would CCP regulate supply in order to cause regular price fluctuations? Simply because it keeps the economic scene dynamic and, therefore, interesting for those who care to predict fluctuations of the market and invest in them. This is yet another mechanism by which non-BPO owners can make fortunes, and it is by design. "If you kill all the wolves, you're gonna have a crapload of bunnies. And by bunnies I mean stupid people." Ask Ninja
Thrawnfl	Posted - 2006.10.22 04:38:00 - [21] Actually I would like to note that most if not all corps have their T2 BPO's in Empire because they are so valuable. You Wont see a 0.0 Corp move a T2 BPO to 0.0 because there might be a chance of them loosing it. If anyone finds out there's a T2 BPO somewhere in 0.0 your gonna have Corps or Alliances hunting that corp down. In Empire BPO's are safe for the most part.
Feta Solamnia	Posted - 2006.10.22 05:28:00 - [22] The group of people that offered those 75 have been working non-stop for over 2 years. Why are they not worth it in the least? When you had breakfast, they were hauling. When you had dinner, they were hauling. When you went to bed, they were running 50-page long excel sheets to see what to haul tommorow. I am seriously bothered when dedicated groups of people like the ones participating in the referenced auction are pointed out as a problem. They are not the problem, they are the example that many people cannot live up to. Dedication, sacrifice that quite oftenly goes beyond the scope of "a game". Yes that means you can't kill them ("how can you kill that which has no life?" ) People only get the right to complain about these kinds of economical powers only after they put in at least half of the effort they did. Once you do that you will come to appreciate what some people have achieved. Originally by: Oveur I have access to all market data. Believe me, we have not reached anything close to deflation yet.
Feta Solamnia	Posted - 2006.10.22 05:34:00 - [23] Originally by: Thrawnfl Actually I would like to note that most if not all corps have their T2 BPO's in Empire because they are so valuable. You Wont see a 0.0 Corp move a T2 BPO to 0.0 because there might be a chance of them loosing it. If anyone finds out there's a T2 BPO somewhere in 0.0 your gonna have Corps or Alliances hunting that corp down. In Empire BPO's are safe for the most part. If they gave the amarrian outposts a 0.5 buildtime multiplier, you'd see people flooding their prints out of the empire and into 0.0 in no-time. At the moment, empire-sustained pos' can hit the current 0.75 buildtime with only a fraction of the cost, risk and trouble that an amarrian prodstation requires. Originally by: Oveur I have access to all market data. Believe me, we have not reached anything close to deflation yet.
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.22 05:38:00 - [24] WOW, this makes it thread #23465723652356235th about the T2 lottery, congratulations you win a T2 Clue. I agree with Feta on most points (if not all) _____________________________ siggys v. 0.5
Karazaan Rakyra	Posted - 2006.10.22 05:51:00 - [25] Originally by: bundy bear One person being able to win a 75 billion isk BPO out of pure luck is just rediculous. When will CCP finally wake up and release three or four times as many BPO's to fix the market. I won't go into the very boring Lottery subject, since some peoples are really unable to understand or even try and read some existing threads. But you bring an interesting subject, the price of a single item. We have a free market in Eve. A player driven one. Many items are not provided by NPC anymore, so it's the players that set the price and if it's too high and others see an opportunity, they will get the stuff themselves also (agent and complex stuff come to mind). Their is no max price because it would create problems with the market. So what would prevent me to put the last snowball (item seeded one time only) in the universe up for sale at 100 bil on the market? You will accuse me of getting it for free? It's not my problem if everyone else already fired theirs. Really there is only one solution, don't buy it if it's not fitting with you. If it's stupidely priced, just let the stupids buy it. Why would you decide what would be my max price for my snowballs? To have easy access to them? Unlimited cheap supply? Your head might have an hard time with tech 3!
Copine Callmeknau The Splinter Syndicate SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.22 05:52:00 - [26] Imagine what the price would be for a decent BPO, like an Absolution or a Sleipnir oO -- Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you where tuxford.
Strikeclone Caldari Starscreamers	Posted - 2006.10.22 06:30:00 - [27] One person winning half a dozen tech2 BPOs with a few months of getting a reserch agent isnt fair or like real life. That same person then making an absolute killing with those 6 BPOs and eventually buying twenty more tech2 BPOs including just about all the HACs is just a ridiculous outcome from a ridiculous manufacturing system. Want a good R&D and manufacturing system, check out Auto Assault's system. Its about the best I have seen in any mmorpg. There you have to earn you skills, and your abilities to make nice items. I think many will agree Eve is supposed to be about effort and play time, not random lotto roll overs. "Peace through the application of fingers in ears and humming real loud" Starscreamers HQ
thetwilitehour Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.10.22 06:49:00 - [28] Originally by: bundy bear One person being able to win a 75 billion isk BPO out of pure luck is just rediculous. When will CCP finally wake up and release three or four times as many BPO's to fix the market. In part I think the OP is right. The system as it was orginally implemented is severely flawed, ridiculous even. Would releasing more BPOS fix the problem? Sadly not necessarily. Essentially the problem with the T2 system is twofold, first its a system of artifical scarcity, where the means to produce are simply not available to everyone who wants to compete in the market, and second the system was designed with a much smaller playerbase in mind. Assuming orginaly there was 1 BPO for say every 1,000 players with only 1/4 of those players being of the appropriate race to to use said ship/component might help to understand why these flaws werent immediately apparent. However simply releasing new bpos is dangerous because players and corps have made investments into the t2 bpo market based on the assumption the inherent fact of scarce t2 bpos will not significantly change. The theoretical fix is limited run BPCs becoming available to players via invention. The best guess is this will lower the price of items with a large mark up (such as Hacs) as players produce their own and enterprising souls try to compete in the market. It will also theoretically drive up the prices of t2 bpo manufacturing. In general this should be a good fix, as bpo holders can still make a decent profit off their investment, but having certain t2 bpos will no longer essentially be a license to print isk. Please read stickied threads and search, stop posting this so someone has to respond each time.
Cheese999	Posted - 2006.10.22 06:53:00 - [29] An idea. Make ALL T2 BPOs into BPCs. The lottery continues as before, except pays out BPCs instead of BPOs. Result: Cartels will have a hard time exsisting as they will have to buy out the winners of the lottery. Which would lead to a rise in the price of the BPCs, eventually driving cartels out of buisness (hopefully). As there could be no form of organised price fixing (randomised distribution FTW) competition would develop, droping T2 prices. Any problems?
Hesed Hamartia.	Posted - 2006.10.22 07:23:00 - [30] Can we just be honest here for a sec? T2 itself is damaging to the game and to its popularity. Take any of the following examples: -ships for tackling in general -t2 ammo range -damage stacking -fittings complaints -lack of people who consider themselves competent at pvp If we just had nothing but t1, no insurance, all the roles offered by t2 spec ships, slower warp drive activation, and good balance between the classes, this would be a more functional and popular game. There are lots of other solutions, but if they rely on grinding, they are automatically wrong. Invention could be tied in with POS somehow. Like maybe utilize a POS module that runs on Extremely large quantities of atmospheric gases as one ingredient.

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