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ICE Mining ruined by spawn changes, multiboxers and farmers?

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ISO Quorra School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.03.25 10:22:02 - [1] - Quote I came back to the game a few months ago and started to aim for T2 Ice harvesters, a mining ship and decided to do some solo ice mining to build up some slow but steady isk to get back into the game. I noticed the ice belt and spawn changes, was like ok np multiple systems have ice, it spawns every 4 hours etc, should be fine. Wow was I wrong. First I made the mistake of trying Caldari space, first thing I noticed was the amount of risk free cheap ganking going on has increased by a lot. Ok np I can work around that, im active not afk and fit correctly etc etc, not an issue. Then I found the real problem with ice mining, solo farmers with 15-20 accounts, freighters, orcas and a crap ton of macks, retrievers, skiffs just going from system to system sucking up all the ice for themselves every 4 hours, logging off and then instantly logging all 15-20 accounts again after 4 hours respawn at the exact same second.... Your lucky if you get 2-3 holds of ice before it is all gone. So CCP have really ***** new players with ice mining and anyone that wants to solo mine or even small corps have been completely pushed out of the ICE industry and market by solo mega account farmers and ice belt changes. Ok ok....maybe im over reacting? Maybe I just need to leave all the caldari systems behind even though it's the best priced ice for high sec...maybe I need to try the other regions and systems? Same bloody problem in all gallante, minmatar and amarr ice systems. I scouted the majority of them and especially before and after downtime, all you see is either no ice belts left or almost gone with one guy in each system with 15-20 accounts, freighters, orcas and macks or skiffs. I even started to add them all to watchlist and every 4 hours they all log on same time and log off the exact same second every time a system spawns, rip it out in less than an hour and move on to the next system or log off. This happened in every single region basically making it impossible to do any ice mining. I checked almost all the ice systems in high sec and this happens in pretty much all of them, travelled well over 100 jumps across 4 regions and same issue everywhere I checked. One guy even has ganking alts, he logs on with his 10 ganking alts....ganks any orcas or miners, then logs on all his mackinaws and farms all the ice, switches back to ganking all other miners in area and back to farming all the ice, does it every day...I must admit that is pretty genius but still. Unless you hire some kind of ganking / merc alliance/corp there is no counter to this kind of thing. Even then they make so much ISK per day on multiple ice belts solo, they can buy 100 macks....lose them and buy 100 more... So CCP can sit there and say "there is enough ICE for the game", yeah for one guy with 20 accounts.... GG CCP, ICE mining for anyone but 20 account farmers, botters, ISBoxers is completely gone from EVE Online. In b4 locked for "ranting" and "mining sucks don't do it #rekt #tears"
Falken Falcon 31611	Posted - 2015.03.25 10:29:39 - [2] - Quote What do you suggest, ban alts? and have you tried leaving high sec? There is plenty of ice in new eden if one is willing Also input automation is bannable, so isboxing is no no. If you suspect that someone is doing that, report them. Aye, Sea Turtles
Tuttomenui II Aliastra Gallente Federation 263	Posted - 2015.03.25 10:30:13 - [3] - Quote Need to be able to gank asteroids if you ask me. If they can blast away at them with mining lasers I should be able to blast away at them with any weapon of choice, and reduce them to unrecoverable clouds of dust.
Laken Starr Mining and Munitions Ltd Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 74	Posted - 2015.03.25 10:38:32 - [4] - Quote While I agree that multiboxers are the bane of Eve Online...most of the problems listed above can be avoided simply by moving to nullsec.
Electrique Wizard Mutually Lucrative Business Proposals 404	Posted - 2015.03.25 10:39:20 - [5] - Quote Tuttomenui II wrote: Need to be able to gank asteroids if you ask me. If they can blast away at them with mining lasers I should be able to blast away at them with any weapon of choice, and reduce them to unrecoverable clouds of dust. +1 as long as they dont respawn after being ganked I am the Zodiac, I am the stars, You are the sorceress, my priestess of Mars, Queen of the night, swathed in satin black, Your ivory flesh upon my torture rack.
Ferni Ka'Nviiou Republic University Minmatar Republic 11076	Posted - 2015.03.25 10:43:50 - [6] - Quote 15-20 accounts.... 10 ganking alts..... 200,000,000,000 ISK per day mining.... cough cough bullshit cough cough Ever considered --just maybe--- that it is actually a fleet of different miners, rather than one guy with 60 characters? Sticking your head in the sand is generally a stupid idea, but pulling it out and thinking you have intelligence is much worse. So read the title. "MMO." Get friends if you want to get more ISK. Or do something other than mining. Or both.
ISO Quorra School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.03.25 10:51:49 - [7] - Quote Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote: 15-20 accounts.... 10 active ganking alts..... 200,000,000,000 ISK per day.... ...Miners. I can contact you in game, give you a system with all the names of characaters/accounts if you like, you can add them all to watchlist then watch as the all log on 3-4 times a day every 4 hours on the clock at the exact same second. Plus the fact one the guys himself freely admits it in local chat and even discussed it, he even went as far as to blame CCP for forcing him to do in high sec since he can no longer mine in 0.0 with his 20 accounts for whatever reason.... Just go look and you can see for yourself....
Garnoo Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 150	Posted - 2015.03.25 10:52:11 - [8] - Quote move to nullsec and mine ice in 100% safe space (according to forums - thanks to blue donut reality)... ...but no! youre too lazy!... People are going to try to ruin your day. Get together with others, ruin their day back --á EvE
ISO Quorra School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.03.25 10:54:16 - [9] - Quote Garnoo wrote: move to nullsec and mine ice in 100% safe space (according to forums - thanks to blue donut reality)... ...but no! youre too lazy!... I used to live in 0.0 a long time ago but I don't have the time to play as much plus I did not like the changes CCP have made to 0.0 life. Which is why I took a break and came back, decided to give high sec life a try.... Also one of the guys who farms the ice belts with 20 accounts says the reason he is doing it in high sec is because he can no longer do it in 0.0.....because "CCP"....he did not explain further than that but I will ask him for more info.
GankYou Redshield Holding Company 31	Posted - 2015.03.25 10:56:37 - [10] - Quote Here is the volume mined by regions throughout the year 2014 - http://i.imgur.com/ReUZfak.jpg Covers all types of ores and ice, and all regions. ISO Quorra, survey the gray areas.

Scira Crimson Scira Crimson Corporation 13	Posted - 2015.03.25 10:56:55 - [11] - Quote I also dont believe the story with 20 accounts in every ice belt... But still I would say that all this multiaccounting is complete BS and its just sad that CCP not just allows it, but also encourages it(with game mechanics like the cynos)! Basically selling the quality of the game for some extra money. 1 person = 1 account = 1 character = maximum game integrety When you complain about the skill system, people will tell you "go back to WoW, because you are a brat and want everything NOW and intant gratification blablabla" but then you see those people having 2+ accounts with different characters actually being able to do all possible stuff ingame, basically baught their way to victory and no need for specializsation. Oh, something probably most do not understand: Multiaccounting does not necessarily generate more Gé¼ for CCP but burden the beginner and solo player ingame economicaly more. More multiaccounts -> more overall isk and items -> less value for 1 hour playtime If there was no multiaccounting, beginner and solo player would accumulate a lot more "relative wealth". As a soloplayer I ask myself: why play a MMO if every 2nd account is an Alt and most dedicated player are not in need of player interaction, because they can do everything themselves with their army of alts? This is the main point: The skillsystem and alting makes player interaction and specializsation less relevant. And this is a big flaw in a MMO. When people makes guides where alts are part of the main strategy, sh't already hit the fan. And I am sure all this alt stuff will backfire one day. The growth of a game is dependand on player to player advertisment and if there are few player and mechanics which deters beginner and solo player, the player to player advertisment might collapse one day and have a snowball effect.
Gardav Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2015.03.25 11:16:31 - [12] - Quote Ferni Ka'Nviiou wrote: 15-20 accounts.... 10 active ganking alts..... 200,000,000,000 ISK per day.... ...Miners. And this is one of the reasons why many Players hate Miners like me, because they automatically assume I must be multiboxing if I am a Miner.... and the way EvE is set up they in many cases are right to make that assumption, but not correct in my case. I agree with you Scira Crimson... One Player - One Account - One Character played at a time. That's how I do it. I don't even agree with the idea of making a scout alt. If I want or need a scout I will ask a real Player to scout for me. It makes a Player make choices ingame some times far different than a Player with multiple clients and characters running would make.
Ito Eto State War Academy Caldari State 12	Posted - 2015.03.25 11:22:08 - [13] - Quote I never understood why timer based mass spawning was decided as the best option for EvE harvest-ables, its vulnerability to be exploited by mass harvesting weather automated or not is quite obvious to anyone with MMO experience. The tried and tested solution for mass harvesting exploitation used in many of the MMOs reviled in this neck of the woods is round robin random distribution, when one node is exhausted another node spawns in a random location at a semi random time. it also causes less load on servers since the spawning is incremental, rather than spawning masses of nodes simultaneously. Round robin random distribution would easily nip mas harvesting in the bud by simultaneously invalidating botted/multiboxed fleets while giving smaller/solo actors a chance at the resources without having to alarm clock to hit the 4h re-spawn. Even semi randomizing the re-spawn timer within an hour or two hour window would make the mass-harvesters job more onerous and unreliable and can be implemented with a few lines of code.
Kiandoshia Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2241	Posted - 2015.03.25 11:23:52 - [14] - Quote Leave high sec.
Shadowness University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2015.03.25 11:26:30 - [15] - Quote Kiandoshia wrote: Leave high sec. Die in low/null.
Falken Falcon 31614	Posted - 2015.03.25 11:35:17 - [16] - Quote Shadowness wrote: Kiandoshia wrote: Leave high sec. Die in low/null. I'd rather die in low and/or null than "live" in high sec, if you call that living.. Aye, Sea Turtles
Mara Pahrdi The Order of Anoyia 925	Posted - 2015.03.25 11:38:53 - [17] - Quote Laken Starr wrote: While I agree that multiboxers are the bane of Eve Online...most of the problems listed above can be avoided simply by moving to nullsec. While avoidance works for the individual player, the situation still remains the same and is a detriment to the game. Remove insurance. This thread is the reason, why CCP should stop advertising any aspect of EVE PvE
Amarrchecko Hedion University Amarr Empire 22	Posted - 2015.03.25 11:43:11 - [18] - Quote Scira Crimson wrote: More multiaccounts -> more overall isk and items -> less value for 1 hour playtime It's not so simple. Someone boxing a bunch of accounts purely to mine minerals or ice or PI or something? They are an isk SINK. They buy skillbooks and jump clones and insurance that doesn't pay out and planetary structures and stuff like that, but all they create are raw materials. They not only increase the relative value of isk for a new player by being an isk sink, but they decrease the relative cost of goods for the new player by increasing the supply of raw materials necessary to create those goods. Just because your one attempted career path in Eve isn't panning out in the way you want it to doesn't mean there is much of anything wrong here.
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 52	Posted - 2015.03.25 11:59:12 - [19] - Quote Ito Eto wrote: I never understood why timer based mass spawning was decided as the best option for EvE harvest-ables, its vulnerability to be exploited by mass harvesting weather automated or not is quite obvious to anyone with MMO experience. The tried and tested solution for mass harvesting exploitation used in many of the MMOs reviled in this neck of the woods is round robin random distribution, when one node is exhausted another node spawns in a random location at a semi random time. it also causes less load on servers since the spawning is incremental, rather than spawning masses of nodes simultaneously. Round robin random distribution would easily nip mas harvesting in the bud by simultaneously invalidating botted/multiboxed fleets while giving smaller/solo actors a chance at the resources without having to alarm clock to hit the 4h re-spawn. Even semi randomizing the re-spawn timer within an hour or two hour window would make the mass-harvesters job more onerous and unreliable and can be implemented with a few lines of code. This shows how little you know about mmos. Random resource distribution might work in a theme park game like WoW. However, in a player driven sandbox game such as EVE, where almost everything is player made, the economy would fall apart if you just randomised the resource spawns. There's also the fact that when everyone knows where the resource is, everyone has a shot at getting it, that is not the case if the spawns are just random.
Amarrchecko Hedion University Amarr Empire 22	Posted - 2015.03.25 12:00:02 - [20] - Quote And regarding your thoughts on 1 character per player? I agree to an extent about how a game is more alive when there aren't alts and multiboxing and such, though I personally enjoy playing multiple accounts while I build my own little space empire in my head (and ingame). If you like this 1 character per player thing so much, consider making a blog about it. Embrace the playstyle you say you want in the face of so many others using alts and boxing and such. I could see that working out very well for you, if you do it right.

ISO Quorra School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.03.25 12:05:26 - [21] - Quote Right on time...just after DT Checked 4+ systems so far and pretty much all the same... http://i.imgur.com/t9sB4Uf.jpg http://i.imgur.com/J3mdQqU.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ZrBw0Lq.jpg Each one of those is one guy each controlling all those....they have no issue openly admitting it. Go see for yourself, scout all the different regions in high sec, every single ice system. You will see similar pretty much everywhere especially before and after DT because ice belts after DT respawn even if its within the 4hrs....so before downtime clear belts with 20+ accounts....after DT instant respawn, do it again....$$$$....
Nidal Fervor State War Academy Caldari State 52	Posted - 2015.03.25 12:08:29 - [22] - Quote ISO Quorra wrote: Right on time...just after DT Checked 4+ systems so far and pretty much all the same... http://i.imgur.com/t9sB4Uf.jpg http://i.imgur.com/J3mdQqU.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ZrBw0Lq.jpg Each one of those is one guy each controlling all those....they have no issue openly admitting it. Go see for yourself, scout all the different regions in high sec, every single ice system. You will see similar pretty much everywhere especially before and after DT because ice belts after DT respawn even if its within the 4hrs....so before downtime clear belts with 20+ accounts....after DT instant respawn, do it again....$$$$.... See my previous post, I have offered a simple solution.
Brutus Utama Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx 8	Posted - 2015.03.25 12:19:03 - [23] - Quote Thats nothing we had to compete with a 70 man mining fleet with a 10 man oracle escort an orca and a freighter all lead by a nighthawk..... all the same guy the belt lasted approximately 6 cycles before it was gone.... so we moved upto to amarr space was nice & quiet my old corp had the biggest fleet in the belt then the ice price dropped by about 1/3 making it not worth mining.... i have a huge stock of ice sat in a station i was waiting for the price to rise.... about 27k blocks actually because its not worth selling.... would be more effort to move it for the price i get even compressed it would take about 8 freighters.. find a new hobby to make isks ice is not what it used to be...i now live in null and make quadrouple to isk i did mining ice.. they tried to cut down on the multiboxing by restricting ISboxer but it only made a minimal effect as a whole you still get large 1 (real player) fleets mining everything...
Ito Eto State War Academy Caldari State 12	Posted - 2015.03.25 12:23:29 - [24] - Quote Nidal Fervor wrote: This shows how little you know about mmos. Random resource distribution might work in a theme park game like WoW. However, in a player driven sandbox game such as EVE, where almost everything is player made, the economy would fall apart if you just randomised the resource spawns. There's also the fact that when everyone knows where the resource is, everyone has a shot at getting it, that is not the case if the spawns are just random. I'm all ears as to how you think moving the nodes about in a belt, or even randomizing the locations of the belts, is going to destroy the EvE economy. I find its not wise to assume stuff, myself, especially since you don't even seem to understand how RRND works. I guess its more fun and easier to personally attack people who's experience you have no idea of* , trot off some tired sandbox/themepark/wow cliches, than you know, engage in an adult discussion, and make sure you understand my premise before getting all shouty. *BRB, Im just going to polish my BAFTA and my C+VG awards.
Lee Sin Priest Republic University Minmatar Republic 11	Posted - 2015.03.25 12:43:28 - [25] - Quote Using multiple characters is an integral part of Eve They get more (with the implication that there is the law of diminishing returns in play) with the more accounts they get This has been around since the inception of the game when people were mining in cruisers and realized that hey, if they get a second cruiser they can mine so much more for that fancy ass new raven (good ol' days) The lack of resources you seem to be experiencing is not the disease of multiple accounts but rather the symptom, the disease being game mechanics You literally warp to location, Orbit, lock and F1 The ice belt debate is up for grabs as the first solution would be: Infinite ice - infinite supply, lowish risk, limited demand, therefore low prices but in the other hand you get to mine as much as you want regardless of other people in your belt, just remembering that it is a competition the second being: 4 hour timers - Limited supply, limited time frame, lots of people suck up ice and leave none for newer players There is something you have to realize with this, since there is a limited supply that means at some point, due to the way mining works, you will hit a hard cap as to how much ice you can mine per hour, which means the only way to add more efficiency is to add characters, so either every one in the game gets limited to 1 character to rectify this, or you make more to combat this, as even if they werent all run by 1 guy, other players would make more accounts to fill the vacancy then any other funky town solutions players can think of I dont see where you are trying to go with this Would you prefer No multiple accounts, (btw isboxer still legal, just no input multiplexing) - and subsequently crash eve No 4 hour belts (there is mining ore, yields more isk/h tbh if done correctly) meaning you want infinite belts where you can mine as much as you want?
Agondray Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces 266	Posted - 2015.03.25 12:48:48 - [26] - Quote Garnoo wrote: move to nullsec and mine ice in 100% safe space (according to forums - thanks to blue donut reality)... ...but no! youre too lazy!... while it is fairly safe past the initial gate camps set by your fleets and the pacts of the 2 blocs, interceptor roams since "interceptor online" came about do like to go out and grief whoever they can find. as for the alts when you go to the evelopedia I find this funny as the whole turn point of doing anything in eve is just to make another alt for it Warning: DISCLAIMER: Although it is not officially supported by CCP, it is possible to run multiple clients simultaneously. However, doing this has been known to cause some problems with some computers. Use the following instructions at your own risk! found here: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Multiple_clients "Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
ISO Quorra School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.03.25 12:48:49 - [27] - Quote Lee Sin Priest wrote: The lack of resources you seem to be experiencing is not the disease of multiple accounts but rather the symptom, the disease being game mechanics Oh I completely agree with what your saying.
Lfod Shi Lfod's Ratting and Salvage 232	Posted - 2015.03.25 13:08:39 - [28] - Quote +1 for one player, one account. Maybe one day... one day... sigh. GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
Serene Repose 2488	Posted - 2015.03.25 13:10:13 - [29] - Quote Ban the bot. Oh, we already do that. Identify bots as you see them and drop a dime on them. The boys at the CCP Precinct are always happy to know what's happening in the 'hood. It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to type on your keyboard and remove all doubt.
Nicolai Serkanner Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective 308	Posted - 2015.03.25 13:11:58 - [30] - Quote ISO Quorra wrote: scout all the different regions in high sec, . There is your problem ...

Nicolai Serkanner Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective 308	Posted - 2015.03.25 13:13:55 - [31] - Quote Agondray wrote: while it is fairly safe past the initial gate camps set by your fleets and the pacts of the 2 blocs, interceptor roams since "interceptor online" came about do like to go out and grief whoever they can find. And they get bored within a few minutes and you can mine for hours on end again. Ask my friends at Bovril Borers how to do it.
Noragli Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 84	Posted - 2015.03.25 13:18:50 - [32] - Quote Op has been offered advice but chooses to ignore such posts. Op making huge exaggerations to try to convince people to see his way (yes, some ice belts have a guy with 10+ alts, but most ice belts do not) I wonder if he has a hidden agenda?
Eve Solecist Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 5	Posted - 2015.03.25 13:25:25 - [33] - Quote It's only "risk free cheap" ganking, because no one bothers protecting (his) miners. Anyone can change this situation with a battlecruiser and a bit of research.
IcyMind Arierep Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 9	Posted - 2015.03.25 13:50:12 - [34] - Quote The expression on this forums is like everyone has 20 alt character. Is not like that I know a lot people that play only 1 account with 1 or 2 alt. If you don't like it in one place, more somewhere else. But if this behavior is bot driven it should be banned. If is one guy playing 20 account I don't care, somehow he still needs to pay for plex or subscription so good for CCP.
ISO Quorra School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 2	Posted - 2015.03.25 14:02:42 - [35] - Quote IcyMind Arierep wrote: The expression on this forums is like everyone has 20 alt character. Is not like that I know a lot people that play only 1 account with 1 or 2 alt. If you don't like it in one place, more somewhere else. But if this behavior is bot driven it should be banned. If is one guy playing 20 account I don't care, somehow he still needs to pay for plex or subscription so good for CCP. I have looked at the majority of all high sec ice systems... Moved around 20 jumps already today alone and find the same thing all over.... Here have some more... http://i.imgur.com/GhRWNd7.png 4 Belts almost gone over 2 systems so far, they working on 4th and soon 5th belt in a 3rd system since downtime...they also did exactly the same thing before downtime so by the time they finish they would of farmed almost 12 belts of ice before and after downtime...to one play pretty much. Repeat another 6 belts in next 4 hours spawn time, and again the next day... Not all of those is same guy but 90% of them. We had a nice discussion about what CCP should do about ICE belts in local and they agree the changes were stupid and he understands how it is unfair on those trying to do a little but of mining here and there and completely favors those with 15-20 accounts doing mega farming....but like everyone else he says its completely legit part of the game and he is allowed to do it, which is true. CCP screwed up with the ice belt changes and the game mechanics around ice mining now have completely screwed solo miners, small corps or anyone basically who is wanting to ice mine but does not have 15-20 accounts. Move 20 systems and same thing....no matter what ice system you go to...
Shiloh Templeton Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 270	Posted - 2015.03.25 14:10:27 - [36] - Quote ISO Quorra wrote: Each one of those is one guy each controlling all those....they have no issue openly admitting it. Does it look like he's a bot (simultaneous actions with ship movement, targeting, cycling lasers)? If so, use the in game option to report him as a bot. Like the law, CCP moves slow - but they do move. One ban of all his accounts would likely change the behavior. As far as your assertion that it's this way in all ice belts -- it's just not true. The 70 man mining fleet with positioned defenders was a very impressive thing to see (Genesis/Agal). Does anyone know if he's still operating after the bot action in January?
Amarrchecko Hedion University Amarr Empire 22	Posted - 2015.03.25 14:15:51 - [37] - Quote If you're so concerned with these guys clearing out all the belts, why are you hiding their names and such instead of offering them up and asking for a ganker response?
Daerrol Furtherance. 75	Posted - 2015.03.25 14:17:36 - [38] - Quote I know of many ice belts you could mine semi-AFK all day. Yes they are in lowsec, but no one at all goes there. Granted this was ~6months ago but I doubt anyone moved in where we moved out.
ISO Quorra School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 2	Posted - 2015.03.25 14:23:21 - [39] - Quote Amarrchecko wrote: If you're so concerned with these guys clearing out all the belts, why are you hiding their names and such instead of offering them up and asking for a ganker response? Because its against forum rules? Is why I blacked out the names.
Anthar Thebess 977	Posted - 2015.03.25 14:31:09 - [40] - Quote GankYou wrote: Here is the volume mined by regions throughout the year 2014 - http://i.imgur.com/ReUZfak.jpg Covers all types of ores and ice, and all regions. ISO Quorra, survey the gray areas. Now you made me proud Stain citizen. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.

Soldarius Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent 1189	Posted - 2015.03.25 14:42:31 - [41] - Quote Report them all as bots. Let CCP sort them out. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Aivo Dresden Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 429	Posted - 2015.03.25 14:46:34 - [42] - Quote Why don't you just flip their can?
Kalishka Ashkulf Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 110	Posted - 2015.03.25 14:48:29 - [43] - Quote Bump them. Why, thank you, Thing!
IcyMind Arierep Chaotic Tranquility Warp to Cyno. 9	Posted - 2015.03.25 15:00:03 - [44] - Quote Wow seems like a lot, but try that bump them, report them. Move to another part of the empire.
Hengle Teron Just Another Corp XIV 43758	Posted - 2015.03.25 15:11:39 - [45] - Quote Mara Pahrdi wrote: Laken Starr wrote: While I agree that multiboxers are the bane of Eve Online...most of the problems listed above can be avoided simply by moving to nullsec. While avoidance works for the individual player, the situation still remains the same and is a detriment to the game. Ask for more highsec safety and ganker nerfs. That will fix it.
Amarrchecko Hedion University Amarr Empire 22	Posted - 2015.03.25 15:18:35 - [46] - Quote ISO Quorra wrote: Amarrchecko wrote: If you're so concerned with these guys clearing out all the belts, why are you hiding their names and such instead of offering them up and asking for a ganker response? Because its against forum rules? Is why I blacked out the names. My mistake. But still. Go post the names on the minerbumping forums or in the CODE. channel ingame or something.
admiral root Red Galaxy 2553	Posted - 2015.03.25 16:30:26 - [47] - Quote Amarrchecko wrote: ISO Quorra wrote: Amarrchecko wrote: If you're so concerned with these guys clearing out all the belts, why are you hiding their names and such instead of offering them up and asking for a ganker response? Because its against forum rules? Is why I blacked out the names. My mistake. But still. Go post the names on the minerbumping forums or in the CODE. channel ingame or something. Or he could kill them himself. We aren't mercenaries, we are champions of justice. You can't just batphone us because you want to mine in peace. Besides, I have no record of the OP owning a mining permit, so he's just as criminal as the people he's whining about. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff \| No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that. Sabriz for CSM
Niobe Song Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 60	Posted - 2015.03.25 18:16:34 - [48] - Quote So these people with the 20 account mining fleets....is that all they do ever? Are these accounts at least supplementing their income so they can do something more interesting and fun on their main or is ice mining all they do? And if it is all they do I have to ask WHY? Why would someone want to do that and nothing else all day?
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 870	Posted - 2015.03.25 18:26:38 - [49] - Quote Eve is a competitive multiplayer sandbox and some resources like ice are finite. If you want a share of them you need to fight for it. If you are not willing to fight then try a game where everything is handed to you without effort. BTW: where is your mining permit? the Code ALWAYS wins
DaReaper Net 7 1864	Posted - 2015.03.25 18:42:49 - [50] - Quote move to a shatllered system. ls system or join a null sec alliance. if you believe they are breaking the rules, like using isboxer then report them. adapt or die /thread OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Styphon the Black Forced Euthanasia Soviet-Union 20	Posted - 2015.03.25 19:13:09 - [51] - Quote I think 1 account = 1 person = 1 toon. However, it was already long ago broken before I ever even created an account. So we all just have to live with it.
ashley Eoner 463	Posted - 2015.03.25 20:37:53 - [52] - Quote Styphon the Black wrote: I think 1 account = 1 person = 1 toon. However, it was already long ago broken before I ever even created an account. So we all just have to live with it. How would you even do that? Require social security numbers for every account? Don't say one account per IP because that's so ridiculously stupid I don't even want to have to waste my time pointing out why. It's funny that Blizzard is telling people to HTFU over multiboxers while CCP is trying to cater to the whiners. Multiboxing has always existed in nearly every online game in existence. The few that don't have multiboxers have draconian and often incredibly intrusive methods to prevent it. As for ice the new spawn system is the only reason ice products are worth anything right now. Between fatigue and talk of stront related changes there's been a massive decrease in demand for ice products. I see in some of your pictures that you could be easily ganking the supposed boxers with a single retriever. I say supposed because I know some people who run a tight mining setup and they get accused of being boxers all the time. In reality it's just a group of friends some of whom live together. CCP has given you tools to deal with this situation and you choose to ignore all of them except the forum. That's just laziness on your part.
Arthur Aihaken Narada 4215	Posted - 2015.03.26 01:13:26 - [53] - Quote Tuttomenui II wrote: Need to be able to gank asteroids if you ask me. If they can blast away at them with mining lasers I should be able to blast away at them with any weapon of choice, and reduce them to unrecoverable clouds of dust. I like the idea. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
ZAKURELL0 LINDA Black Scorpions Inc Fidelas Constans 60	Posted - 2015.03.26 01:33:48 - [54] - Quote instead of crying and running like a child, you can DO THIS and collect tears gank the same guy until he quits, even if he can coupe with the losses, he still need to fit the ships everytime he welp his fleet and don't forget to post a vid doing it RIP Iron Lady
Jenshae Chiroptera The Volition Cult 1159	Posted - 2015.03.26 01:35:23 - [55] - Quote ashley Eoner wrote: You should be pitying the multibox ice miners. . Yeah, that 35 billion ISK after PLEXing ... those poor guys! ISO Quorra wrote: Each one of those is one guy each controlling all those....they have no issue openly admitting it. Go see for yourself, scout all the different regions in high sec, every single ice system. Found your problem. There is ice in other parts of space. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids. . SOV is stagnant because Low Sec is not the next step from High Sec and a viable place to grow alliances to the point they can challenge Null alliances. Fozzie is treating a symptom.
Michael Ruckert Hohere Kavallerie-Kommando 286	Posted - 2015.03.26 01:56:39 - [56] - Quote I ice mine now and then in a high sec system. Last night I was the only one in a 0.5 system mining ice. Yes, the ONLY ONE. Sometimes we get a mining group in, but not often. And right next door is a 0.4 system with ice that never gets mined. There are times when no one is in that system for prolonged time periods, so it could easily be mined. Sorry OP, not buying into your generalization that individual ice mining in high sec is dead. "No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier
Dalto Bane Cruis3r's Cr3w Inc. 154	Posted - 2015.03.26 01:59:23 - [57] - Quote Replying in stealth Nerf ISBoxer....oh wait... so what do you propose CCP do now? If the before mentioned is a true testiment, cry loud enough, and they will give in to your demands. Drops Mic
ashley Eoner 463	Posted - 2015.03.26 04:58:32 - [58] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: ashley Eoner wrote: You should be pitying the multibox ice miners. . Yeah, that 35 billion ISK after PLEXing ... those poor guys! What are you even talking about with that 35 billion isk comment? It takes 55 hours of ice mining a month just to get the accounts paid for. To make another 35 billion isk would take another 149 hours of mining. At that point he/she will of spent well over 200 hours of ice mining (51 hours a week you'd be better off with a second full time job and just buy plex). That's just not happening with ice. I know this because I've boxed ice mining before out of curiosity. I made far more isk per hour with my accounts via other activities.
Hermanni Pursiainen The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2015.03.26 06:30:53 - [59] - Quote Wouldnt be half as bad if you could actually wardec these guys. Too bad they are always in npc corp so youre just **** outta luck. Also yes, the system is stupid. Old system was just as flawed as this one, but at least then you could mine no?
Korwin Abre-Kai lichfield exploration and salvage 10	Posted - 2015.03.26 07:56:16 - [60] - Quote what a load of total BS! waaa I tried 4+ systems blabla ban multy boxing cause other players are better than me........ I mined blue ice this evening with a three account fleet and there were only two other fleets in the belt for a total of around 8 to 12 ships including the orcas, the belt was up for 3 hrs at least and that is how it is most weeknights in that system the belt one system over was even less populated in fact all the belts around there run about the same ( NO im not telling you where) so quit your crying and do some actual scouting yes there are large fleets and it sucks to have them suck up all the ice but it is no where near the problem it was prior to the broadcasting ban and even then it was not as bad as what your claiming.

Brutus Utama Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx 10	Posted - 2015.03.26 12:05:21 - [61] - Quote Noragli wrote: Op is making huge exaggerations to try to convince people to see his way, claiming all systems have a guy with 15-20 mining alts. You would struggle to find ice belts with 20 mining alts. Yes, some ice belts have a guy with around 10 alts, but most ice belts do not even have this. Op has been offered advice but chooses to ignore such posts. This, plus the huge exaggerations, I wonder if he has a hidden agenda? i disagree here as a former ice miner every single belt we tried to mine had players with 10-15 alts plus other random players each belt had more than 20-25 players in it was rare for a belt to last more than an hour and thats if you found a good system to mine in...
Brutus Utama Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx 10	Posted - 2015.03.26 12:11:39 - [62] - Quote Shiloh Templeton wrote: ISO Quorra wrote: Each one of those is one guy each controlling all those....they have no issue openly admitting it. Does it look like he's a bot (simultaneous actions with ship movement, targeting, cycling lasers)? If so, use the in game option to report him as a bot. Like the law, CCP moves slow - but they do move. One ban of all his accounts would likely change the behavior. As far as your assertion that it's this way in all ice belts -- it's just not true. The 70 man mining fleet with positioned defenders was a very impressive thing to see (Genesis/Agal). Does anyone know if he's still operating after the bot action in January? he is still there....in january he dropped to maybe 10 miners with minimal escort but i heard it is rising into the higher end of his numbers again....i have not had chance to look i live on the edge of nowhere now...
Nors Phlebas Sabelhpsron The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 96	Posted - 2015.03.26 12:16:07 - [63] - Quote Quote: One guy even has ganking alts, he logs on with his 10 ganking alts....ganks any orcas or miners, then logs on all his mackinaws and farms all the ice, switches back to ganking all other miners in area and back to farming all the ice, does it every day...I must admit that is pretty genius but still. Unless you hire some kind of ganking / merc alliance/corp there is no counter to this kind of thing. You gave the answer to the 'problem' in your OP. Hire some merc to wardec / gank the miners. If you don't want to fight for resources in EvE, why should you get them?
Noragli Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 84	Posted - 2015.03.26 12:19:21 - [64] - Quote Several have posted disagreeing with the op that all ice belts in high sec are as packed as he makes out. As some have said, it's quite common for some ice fields to last for more than 3 hours because often enough there is not more than 10 people in a belt. Yes some areas are worse than this but it's your fault is you choose to mine there, move to an area with less competition. Or you could kill the competition, or bump it, you claim others already do this. You could just move to a quieter system, but I guess it's too much effort to scout one out. You have the same tools available as everyone else, yet you choose to whine on the forum instead. Everyone, the OP has an agenda behind posting this, I know who he is. I also know who that group of miners are that he is whining about and I know that he is all upset because he has been accusing them of using isboxer, he was hoping to get them banned because he wanted a specific ice system all to himself. He failed to achieve his goal and gave up trying, shortly after this thread appeared. I think that your only real goal here is to get mining changed, as a way to take vengeance on that group of miners whom you are all butthurt about.
Aphsala Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2015.03.26 12:29:02 - [65] - Quote mining does need changed, an changed in such a way that anyone who afk's does not profit
Serene Repose 2502	Posted - 2015.03.26 12:50:17 - [66] - Quote Yes. It was true - Ice Mining could make you billions effortlessly. Now, it is not true. Find another cash cow. Le mooooo. It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to type on your keyboard and remove all doubt.
KIller Wabbit The Scope Gallente Federation 916	Posted - 2015.03.26 12:55:44 - [67] - Quote Aivo Dresden wrote: Why don't you just flip their can? You mean kill the Orca, right?
KIller Wabbit The Scope Gallente Federation 916	Posted - 2015.03.26 12:56:32 - [68] - Quote Soldarius wrote: Report them all as bots. Let CCP sort them out. As if reporting bots actually does anything anymore.
KIller Wabbit The Scope Gallente Federation 916	Posted - 2015.03.26 12:58:28 - [69] - Quote Niobe Song wrote: So these people with the 20 account mining fleets....is that all they do ever? Are these accounts at least supplementing their income so they can do something more interesting and fun on their main or is ice mining all they do? And if it is all they do I have to ask WHY? Why would someone want to do that and nothing else all day? Bots don't have many feelings.
KIller Wabbit The Scope Gallente Federation 916	Posted - 2015.03.26 13:02:32 - [70] - Quote OP CCP nerfed HiSec ice in order to force more people into Null. Don't blame the multi-boxer guys, blame CCP for warping the resource allocations. Once the new Sov gets deployed expect your ice mining services to be in high demand in Null.

Petre en Thielles Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 126	Posted - 2015.03.26 14:04:15 - [71] - Quote Leave high sec? In certain areas of null you could literally mine ice 23/7 if you wanted to.
Jason Xado Xado Industries 194	Posted - 2015.03.26 14:55:10 - [72] - Quote This thread should be closed as a duplicate of the following thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=387571 In other words, you have won, you don't have to rub our noses in it.
Kiandoshia Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2243	Posted - 2015.03.26 16:02:15 - [73] - Quote Shadowness wrote: Kiandoshia wrote: Leave high sec. Die in low/null. That's ridiculous and you know it. I know it sounds like I am just being like grrrr, leave high sec so I can shooty you because there are no targets anywhere, grrrrr but seriously, the problem fixes itself when you go to null. I dunno about low sec. I don't go there much for things other than lighting cynos on stations but remarkably few of these die. It's not hard to get in with an established corp somewhere in 0.0 and do your ice mining there. They might even help you, give you people to do it with and protection and what not and all the fancy stuff and then you can mine so much ice that you will stop caring about a dead ship now and again.
Janeway84 Def Squadron Pride Before Fall 157	Posted - 2015.03.26 16:09:39 - [74] - Quote The solution is simple , CCP could make it so people have to scan the ice belts with scan probes Or easy solution increase amount of ice x 10 or whatever. But its a sensitive balance between providing ice and crashing the ice market...
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 3239	Posted - 2015.03.26 16:40:08 - [75] - Quote OP, could you tell us what game mechanic change you would like to see? I do not want the result you want to see, but, in detail, the actual change in the game mechanics. We know you want a change the prevents multiboxed mining fleets scooping up all the mineable stuff. But what is, in fact, that change? Kiandoshia wrote: Shadowness wrote: Kiandoshia wrote: Leave high sec. Die in low/null. That's ridiculous and you know it. I know it sounds like I am just being like grrrr, leave high sec so I can shooty you because there are no targets anywhere, grrrrr but seriously, the problem fixes itself when you go to null. I dunno about low sec. I don't go there much for things other than lighting cynos on stations but remarkably few of these die. It's not hard to get in with an established corp somewhere in 0.0 and do your ice mining there. They might even help you, give you people to do it with and protection and what not and all the fancy stuff and then you can mine so much ice that you will stop caring about a dead ship now and again. I've only tried mining in low, with an established corp, once. The effort lasted 5 minutes. I've had better luck in W. Know a Frozen fan? Check this out Frozen fanfiction
Xayder Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 334	Posted - 2015.03.26 16:54:50 - [76] - Quote OP, more accounts means more money for CCP PERIOD I don't always post, But when i post I do it with my main
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 3240	Posted - 2015.03.26 16:59:24 - [77] - Quote Xayder wrote: OP, more accounts means more money for CCP PERIOD Now the only question is: Which results in more accounts: Having a few players who multibox, resulting in hordes of solo-minded players leaving, or nefing multi-boxing and keeping all those solo-minded players? (Note: by multi-box, I am assuming each is controlled manually. No bots or broadcasting.) Know a Frozen fan? Check this out Frozen fanfiction
Petre en Thielles Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 126	Posted - 2015.03.26 17:23:54 - [78] - Quote Kiandoshia wrote: That's ridiculous and you know it. I know it sounds like I am just being like grrrr, leave high sec so I can shooty you because there are no targets anywhere, grrrrr but seriously, the problem fixes itself when you go to null. I dunno about low sec. I don't go there much for things other than lighting cynos on stations but remarkably few of these die. It's not hard to get in with an established corp somewhere in 0.0 and do your ice mining there. They might even help you, give you people to do it with and protection and what not and all the fancy stuff and then you can mine so much ice that you will stop caring about a dead ship now and again. Exactly...I don't mine, but I often go ratting for ISK. Everyone knows to call me if rats show up in the belt and I will pop over to take care of them. Also null intel channels mean anyone not under a POS shield/reshipped to PvP when a baddie/unknown shows up has no one to blame but themselves.
ISO Quorra School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 7	Posted - 2015.03.26 18:25:13 - [79] - Quote Noragli wrote: Several have posted disagreeing with the op that all ice belts in high sec are as packed as he makes out. As some have said, it's quite common for some ice fields to last for more than 3 hours because often enough there is not more than 10 people in a belt. Yes some areas are worse than this but it's your fault is you choose to mine there, move to an area with less competition. Or you could kill the competition, or bump it, you claim others already do this. You could just move to a quieter system, but I guess it's too much effort to scout one out. You have the same tools available as everyone else, yet you choose to whine on the forum instead. Everyone, the OP has an agenda behind posting this, I know who he is. I also know who that group of miners are that he is whining about and I know that he is all upset because he has been accusing them of using isboxer, he was hoping to get them banned because he wanted a specific ice system all to himself. He failed to achieve his goal and gave up trying, shortly after this thread appeared. I think that your only real goal here is to get mining changed, as a way to take vengeance on that group of miners whom you are all butthurt about. +1 for effort, made me laugh. You found out my secret plan....I am doomed. Brutus Utama wrote: Noragli wrote: Op is making huge exaggerations to try to convince people to see his way, claiming all systems have a guy with 15-20 mining alts. You would struggle to find ice belts with 20 mining alts. Yes, some ice belts have a guy with around 10 alts, but most ice belts do not even have this. Op has been offered advice but chooses to ignore such posts. This, plus the huge exaggerations, I wonder if he has a hidden agenda? i disagree here as a former ice miner every single belt we tried to mine had players with 10-15 alts plus other random players each belt had more than 20-25 players in it was rare for a belt to last more than an hour and thats if you found a good system to mine in... Yes their is some systems which are quieter but they are few and far between.... Pretty much this, even if you move away from the farmers 20+ jumps, you just find more of the same. Found another 3 fleets of solo multi account farmers in everyshore after downtime today. Same in Caldari space, gallente...minmatar...amarr...a few systems are quieter than others but its mostly the same in each ice system, even the systems with 3 belt spawns.., gone in less than an hour...lucky if you get 3 holds worth from one belt before it's gone. Basically unless you plan on wiping ice belts with 20 account fleet don't even bother training any ice mining skills, complete waste of time. Not worth the effort, too many botters, farmers and ISboxers.
Alexstrazaas Perkone Caldari State 46	Posted - 2015.03.26 18:40:54 - [80] - Quote Honestly they should make a Mini-game out of mining. like controlling power lvls and settings, maybe aiming lazer. Something that makes you feel like your mining, could even add a special view for it like planet management could make it so that afk mining has a 66%(or more) less rate of mining to encourage active mining, of course they need to make it more interesting the same time. but everyone agrees that mining needs work form the "afk alts/ bot fest" it is now that i know of at least.

BrundleMeth Caldari Provisions Caldari State 407	Posted - 2015.03.26 19:31:08 - [81] - Quote Scira Crimson wrote: 1 person = 1 account = 1 character = maximum game integrety Stick it in yer butt...
Tuttomenui II Aliastra Gallente Federation 277	Posted - 2015.03.26 19:39:30 - [82] - Quote Go to Osmon, sometimes there are up to 3 ice anoms at the same time. And those pesky Code guys are running rampant.
Alexstrazaas Perkone Caldari State 46	Posted - 2015.03.26 19:57:50 - [83] - Quote BrundleMeth wrote: Scira Crimson wrote: 1 person = 1 account = 1 character = maximum game integrety Stick it in yer butt... let me guess you got 5 alts mining....
Korwin Abre-Kai lichfield exploration and salvage 10	Posted - 2015.03.27 00:21:37 - [84] - Quote Aphsala wrote: mining does need changed, an changed in such a way that anyone who afk's does not profit the fact is I prefer to be up against an AFK 10 boxer any day of the week as opposed to an ATK fleet running fully optimized cycles the former is harvesting far less ice than the latter period end of story. quite frankly I just don't get the obsession some EVE players have with what other players may or may not be doing on their side of the client. if some one is AFK it can have NO negative effect on YOUR game play PERIOD in fact as I pointed out it is a boon as an AFK player cannot by definition react to what is going on in the game. I actually find it more than a little bit creepy that some EVE players seem to have this obsessive need to control the behavior of other people in the game , making moral judgments and ethical arguments because some one is using the freaking auto pilot mechanics(WTF?)or because a mining laser can auto cycle. I mean seriously?? how about this as a change to mining. make it totally passive just like PI and moon mining. maybe then we will see these and other tear threads on this subject vanish like a fart in the breeze god knows I have had my fill of the stench from them.
Charles Muffins ROC Academy ROC. 16	Posted - 2015.03.27 01:56:51 - [85] - Quote Mining is 100% broken. No one should be able to do the work of 20 players solo, and take all the profit for themselves.
Jason Xado Xado Industries 194	Posted - 2015.03.27 02:03:26 - [86] - Quote Charles Muffins wrote: Mining is 100% broken. No one should be able to do the work of 20 players solo, and take all the profit for themselves. Why?
Mephiztopheleze Republic University Minmatar Republic 54	Posted - 2015.03.27 03:34:45 - [87] - Quote to the OP.... Seriously, get out of High Sec. Not only are the Null belts full of higher value ores of all types, they're largely untouched. The only major difference is that you need to keep an eye on things, especially while operating solo. Watch Local, watch your region's Intel Channels. Notice that there's a roaming gang two jumps away? Time to head to station. Neut enters local, burn for station. Choose your mining system carefully (eg: avoid pipes and try to mine away from border systems) and you should basically almost never be interrupted. I'll let you in on a dirty little not-so-secret: Most minerals 'mined' in 0.0 are actually acquired from reprocessing Rat loot from anomalies. Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
Gerald Sphinx The Scope Gallente Federation 79	Posted - 2015.03.27 04:22:17 - [88] - Quote After reading this... https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=387571&find=unread ...I wonder. Have you reported the characters in question to CCP for possible input automation or multiplexing? Quote: Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing of actions with consequences in the EVE universe, are prohibited and will be policed in the same manner as Input Automation. This includes, but isnGÇÖt limited to: GÇóActivation and control of ships and modules GÇóNavigation and movement within the EVE universe GÇóMovement of assets and items within the EVE universe GÇóInteraction with other characters Examples of allowed Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing are actions taken that do not have an impact on the EVE universe and are carried out for convenience: GÇóEVE Online client settings GÇóWindow positions and arrangements (of the EVE Online client in your operating systemGÇÖs desktop environment) GÇóThe login process If the player in question is doing the above, you need to report them. Pardon me if I'm repeating anything here as I don't have the time to read through 5 pages of posts right now.
Korwin Abre-Kai lichfield exploration and salvage 11	Posted - 2015.03.27 05:51:19 - [89] - Quote when i logged this evening the local ice belt was up and there were aprox 10 miners in the belt , according to the locals it had spawned at 1810 (2 hrs earlier) at 530 I have the belt to my self with 80 units left......... yeah ice belts are totally over crowded and its just not fair CCP PLZ ban multi boxing cause I cant find any ice
Anonymous Forumposter State War Academy Caldari State 202	Posted - 2015.03.27 06:40:10 - [90] - Quote Lfod Shi wrote: +1 for one player, one account. LOLOLOlOLolOLROFLMAOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. This made me lol so hard xD Thank you for being so hilarious. I needed that.

Brutus Utama Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx 11	Posted - 2015.03.27 08:55:25 - [91] - Quote Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: when i logged this evening the local ice belt was up and there were aprox 10 miners in the belt , according to the locals it had spawned at 1810 (2 hrs earlier) at 530 I have the belt to my self with 80 units left......... yeah ice belts are totally over crowded and its just not fair CCP PLZ ban multi boxing cause I cant find any ice 80 units isnt worth warping into belt for its what 15m isk? 10 minutes mining ores in null.... ice mining... move to solitude 2 belts and only the locals to bother you
Noragli Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 84	Posted - 2015.03.27 13:09:30 - [92] - Quote Gerald Sphinx wrote: After reading this... https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=387571&find=unread ...I wonder. Have you reported the characters in question to CCP for possible input automation or multiplexing? Quote: Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing of actions with consequences in the EVE universe, are prohibited and will be policed in the same manner as Input Automation. This includes, but isnGÇÖt limited to: GÇóActivation and control of ships and modules GÇóNavigation and movement within the EVE universe GÇóMovement of assets and items within the EVE universe GÇóInteraction with other characters Examples of allowed Input Broadcasting and Input Multiplexing are actions taken that do not have an impact on the EVE universe and are carried out for convenience: GÇóEVE Online client settings GÇóWindow positions and arrangements (of the EVE Online client in your operating systemGÇÖs desktop environment) GÇóThe login process If the player in question is doing the above, you need to report them. Pardon me if I'm repeating anything here as I don't have the time to read through 5 pages of posts right now. Yes he apparently reported them, he was so certain he was right. However, it makes no difference if he reported them or not, they are not isboxing (I know this for a fact). Then this thread appeared.
Bethan Le Troix Krusual Investigation Agency 181	Posted - 2015.03.27 13:43:01 - [93] - Quote All you have to do is watch them like you appear to be doing in your contacts list. If they all log on within a few seconds of each other they are probably using third party software as it isn't physically possible to do this by hand. If they use this same software to start their mining lasers up as well they are probably breaking the EULA as of January this year. A lot of these characters have been seriously butthurt by the decision but it is better for New Eden in the long run. A chart shown at Fanfest this year showed a massive drop in the ISBoxers after January 1st. If the lasers all come on at the same time just report them all to CCP and they will do the rest. I have noticed a number of the ISBoxers local to my area are no longer running. We will get there in the end. Dependant on ships used you can be proactive and gank some of these multi-bot miners yourself as well. It doesn't take that much in terms of ISK cost and skills.
Soldarius Kosher Nostra The 99 Percent 1201	Posted - 2015.03.27 14:16:21 - [94] - Quote Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: Aphsala wrote: mining does need changed, an changed in such a way that anyone who afk's does not profit the fact is I prefer to be up against an AFK 10 boxer any day of the week as opposed to an ATK fleet running fully optimized cycles the former is harvesting far less ice than the latter period end of story. quite frankly I just don't get the obsession some EVE players have with what other players may or may not be doing on their side of the client. if some one is AFK it can have NO negative effect on YOUR game play PERIOD in fact as I pointed out it is a boon as an AFK player cannot by definition react to what is going on in the game. I actually find it more than a little bit creepy that some EVE players seem to have this obsessive need to control the behavior of other people in the game , making moral judgments and ethical arguments because some one is using the freaking auto pilot mechanics(WTF?)or because a mining laser can auto cycle. I mean seriously?? how about this as a change to mining. make it totally passive just like PI and moon mining. maybe then we will see these and other tear threads on this subject vanish like a fart in the breeze god knows I have had my fill of the stench from them. the truly sad part of this thread is that if the OP had asked one of the fleet operators he chose to antagonize for boost and joined in the fleet he would have been making as much off his account as the fleet commander was making off any one of his and also could have followed that fleet from belt to belt making far more as part of a fleet than he ever possibly could have on his own in that same amount of time even if he would have had that first belt all to his lonesome.(I know shocking idea actually teaming up with others in a multi player game but hay "other peoples kids" what can you say?) Holy crap. How can you possibly be that naive? Anyone that opens their fleet to a completely random person in this game is a fool and will eventually get their entire fleet destroyed. The OP was complaining about an obvious multi-boxer using obviously banned means. And he is right. AFK resource gathering is a pox on the game. It is part of why, when CCP decided to change ice fields from static belts to anoms, so many of us said, "How is that any different than current mechanics? You're just making high-sec mining of high ends easier." and suggested making ice belts Cosmic Signatures. Instead CCP changed all grav sites to anoms on top of the ice belt changes. Guess what happened? High end minerals, which are found more prevalently in those sites than in belts, are crashing. Zydrine is now worth less than Nocxium. According to Eve-Markets it is at a historical low. Literally never been this low. If the OP thinks the characters he saw are multiplexing, then he should report them as such. There are pretty easy ways to tell if they are. One of them is to apply to their corp and find out for sure. Chat them up. Some botters are really dumb and most are extremely lazy (hence why they bot) and will readily admit it or point the player to whatever software he is using. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 3243	Posted - 2015.03.27 16:17:48 - [95] - Quote Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: ........... if some one is AFK it can have NO negative effect on YOUR game play PERIOD ......... Not neccarly true, It depends on what they would be if it was somehow impossible for them to be AFK. If the alternative is they would ATK, then yes, for mining that is worse for me. But if they could not be AFK, it might be their only alternative would be to not be on at all. Then there would be even more ore for me. If someone needs to get housework done, they could set up their mining fleet, go do a little housework, come back and adjust things, and so on. If it became impossible to mine AFK, they would still need to get that housework done, so what would not get done is the mining. Result: More ore for those that are ATK. Whenever a change is proposed or make, you need to consider ALL the ways the players could change their behavior. Know a Frozen fan? Check this out Frozen fanfiction
Kiandoshia Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2244	Posted - 2015.03.27 17:58:46 - [96] - Quote Alexstrazaas wrote: Honestly they should make a Mini-game out of mining. like controlling power lvls and settings, maybe aiming lazer. Something that makes you feel like your mining, could even add a special view for it like planet management could make it so that afk mining has a 66%(or more) less rate of mining to encourage active mining, of course they need to make it more interesting the same time. but everyone agrees that mining needs work form the "afk alts/ bot fest" it is now that i know of at least. That sounds like mining is going to be more effort than Ishtar ratting. Are we going to nuke automatic drone aggro next because it certainly is the more ridiculous of the two mechanics.
Tuttomenui II Aliastra Gallente Federation 278	Posted - 2015.03.27 19:04:06 - [97] - Quote Bethan Le Troix wrote: All you have to do is watch them like you appear to be doing in your contacts list. If they all log on within a few seconds of each other they are probably using third party software as it isn't physically possible to do this by hand. If they use this same software to start their mining lasers up as well they are probably breaking the EULA as of January this year. A lot of these characters have been seriously butthurt by the decision but it is better for New Eden in the long run. A chart shown at Fanfest this year showed a massive drop in the ISBoxers after January 1st. If the lasers all come on at the same time just report them all to CCP and they will do the rest. I have noticed a number of the ISBoxers local to my area are no longer running. We will get there in the end. Dependant on ships used you can be proactive and gank some of these multi-bot miners yourself as well. It doesn't take that much in terms of ISK cost and skills. They are allowed to use isbox to login so that is not proof of anything. And if they tile their screen with all the logged in accounts they can turn the lasers on pretty quickly manually.
Korwin Abre-Kai lichfield exploration and salvage 11	Posted - 2015.03.27 20:21:50 - [98] - Quote Vincent Athena wrote: Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: ........... if some one is AFK it can have NO negative effect on YOUR game play PERIOD ......... Not neccarly true. It depends on what they would do if it was somehow impossible for them to be AFK. If the alternative is they would ATK, then yes, for mining, that is worse for me. But if they could not be AFK, it might be their only alternative would be to not be on at all. Then there would be even more ore for me. Right now, if someone needs to get housework done, they could set up their mining fleet, go do a little housework, come back and adjust things, and so on. If it became impossible to mine AFK, they would still need to get that housework done, so what would not get done is the mining. Result: More ore for those that are ATK. Whenever a change is proposed or make, you need to consider ALL the ways the players could change their behavior. you can only harvest so much ore per hr period it makes no difference what so ever to your mining rate if the dude next to you is ATK or taking a dump period. when the belt gets used up all you need to do is move to the next if all the ore in a system gets used up move to the next (that is what jump gates are for)
ashley Eoner 463	Posted - 2015.03.27 20:30:59 - [99] - Quote Bethan Le Troix wrote: All you have to do is watch them like you appear to be doing in your contacts list. If they all log on within a few seconds of each other they are probably using third party software as it isn't physically possible to do this by hand. If they use this same software to start their mining lasers up as well they are probably breaking the EULA as of January this year. A lot of these characters have been seriously butthurt by the decision but it is better for New Eden in the long run. A chart shown at Fanfest this year showed a massive drop in the ISBoxers after January 1st. If the lasers all come on at the same time just report them all to CCP and they will do the rest. I have noticed a number of the ISBoxers local to my area are no longer running. We will get there in the end. Dependant on ships used you can be proactive and gank some of these multi-bot miners yourself as well. It doesn't take that much in terms of ISK cost and skills. In case anyone decides to be silly CCP has stated that you can use repeaters to log in. Using a repeater to set the mining lasers is an awful idea and none of the boxers I know ever did that. Having said that server ticks are pretty huge so I can get 5-8 characters to start shooting beams at the same time by just using eve in windowed mode. That chart showed a MASSIVE drop in boxers and yet there's been no positive impact in game. IF anything certain items have increased in costs making it harder on the non boxers. Soldarius wrote: Holy crap. How can you possibly be that naive? Anyone that opens their fleet to a completely random person in this game is a fool and will eventually get their entire fleet destroyed. The OP was complaining about an obvious multi-boxer using obviously banned means. And he is right. AFK resource gathering is a pox on the game. It is part of why, when CCP decided to change ice fields from static belts to anoms, so many of us said, "How is that any different than current mechanics? You're just making high-sec mining of high ends easier." and suggested making ice belts Cosmic Signatures. Instead CCP changed all grav sites to anoms on top of the ice belt changes. Guess what happened? High end minerals, which are found more prevalently in those sites than in belts, are crashing. Zydrine is now worth less than Nocxium. According to Eve-Markets it is at a historical low. Literally never been this low. If the OP thinks the characters he saw are multiplexing, then he should report them as such. There are pretty easy ways to tell if they are. One of them is to apply to their corp and find out for sure. Chat them up. Some botters are really dumb and most are extremely lazy (hence why they bot) and will readily admit it or point the player to whatever software he is using. People allow strangers into their mining boost fleet all the time. When it comes to ice mining you're not going to find anything out by joining their fleet that you can't find out by just warping to the ice. Same for rocks it just takes a little more effort. The ore is at a historical low because Null peeps keep complaining they aren't making enough isk off their stuff. So CCP gave them more to mine and predictably prices crashed. Same thing would happen if they reverted to the old ice. The only people making money would be bots or AFK all day.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15530	Posted - 2015.03.27 20:33:26 - [100] - Quote Do I hear calls for a return of the ice interdictions? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship

Korwin Abre-Kai lichfield exploration and salvage 11	Posted - 2015.03.27 20:49:38 - [101] - Quote Soldarius wrote: Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: Aphsala wrote: mining does need changed, an changed in such a way that anyone who afk's does not profit the fact is I prefer to be up against an AFK 10 boxer any day of the week as opposed to an ATK fleet running fully optimized cycles the former is harvesting far less ice than the latter period end of story. quite frankly I just don't get the obsession some EVE players have with what other players may or may not be doing on their side of the client. if some one is AFK it can have NO negative effect on YOUR game play PERIOD in fact as I pointed out it is a boon as an AFK player cannot by definition react to what is going on in the game. I actually find it more than a little bit creepy that some EVE players seem to have this obsessive need to control the behavior of other people in the game , making moral judgments and ethical arguments because some one is using the freaking auto pilot mechanics(WTF?)or because a mining laser can auto cycle. I mean seriously?? how about this as a change to mining. make it totally passive just like PI and moon mining. maybe then we will see these and other tear threads on this subject vanish like a fart in the breeze god knows I have had my fill of the stench from them. the truly sad part of this thread is that if the OP had asked one of the fleet operators he chose to antagonize for boost and joined in the fleet he would have been making as much off his account as the fleet commander was making off any one of his and also could have followed that fleet from belt to belt making far more as part of a fleet than he ever possibly could have on his own in that same amount of time even if he would have had that first belt all to his lonesome.(I know shocking idea actually teaming up with others in a multi player game but hay "other peoples kids" what can you say?) 1)Holy crap. How can you possibly be that naive? Anyone that opens their fleet to a completely random person in this game is a fool and will eventually get their entire fleet destroyed. 2)The OP was complaining about an obvious multi-boxer using obviously banned means. And he is right. AFK resource gathering is a pox on the game. It is part of why, when CCP decided to change ice fields from static belts to anoms, so many of us said, "How is that any different than current mechanics? You're just making high-sec mining of high ends easier." and suggested making ice belts Cosmic Signatures. Instead CCP changed all grav sites to anoms on top of the ice belt changes. 3)Guess what happened? High end minerals, which are found more prevalently in those sites than in belts, are crashing. Zydrine is now worth less than Nocxium. According to Eve-Markets it is at a historical low. Literally never been this low. 4)If the OP thinks the characters he saw are multiplexing, then he should report them as such. There are pretty easy ways to tell if they are. One of them is to apply to their corp and find out for sure. Chat them up. Some botters are really dumb and most are extremely lazy (hence why they bot) and will readily admit it or point the player to whatever software he is using. 1) on my mining alts I have never once been refused a boost request if the fleet had room I have also been offered boost by random fleet commanders several times. as an orca fleet commander I have never refused a fleet request and have even offered boost to random newbros who did not know to ask (even paid the CSPA charges to do so) please explain how being in a fleet bypasses the crime and punishment mechanics in high sec??? last time I checked there is even a warning stating that they apply to fleet members when you receive the invite. 2) your 4th point kinda answers the first part of this and also contradicts it as well fact is only CCP can decide the truth of the matter OP should have reported it and that should have been the end of it instead we got a stealth ban multi boxing thread. as to the rest. it is all before my time and I have no opinion one way or the other you seem to be making a lot of claims here I don't suppose you have any thing but your opinion to back any of it up do you? 3)more opinions with not one citation of any sort to back it up 4) what you meant to say in your 2nd point with which I totally agree
Korwin Abre-Kai lichfield exploration and salvage 11	Posted - 2015.03.27 21:16:54 - [102] - Quote Brutus Utama wrote: Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: when i logged this evening the local ice belt was up and there were aprox 10 miners in the belt , according to the locals it had spawned at 1810 (2 hrs earlier) at 530 I have the belt to my self with 80 units left......... yeah ice belts are totally over crowded and its just not fair CCP PLZ ban multi boxing cause I cant find any ice 80 units isnt worth warping into belt for its what 15m isk? 10 minutes mining ores in null.... ice mining... move to solitude 2 belts and only the locals to bother you I should have been clearer I was in that belt from some time well after 1810 and mined ice until 5:45 ish I harvested a total of 1100+ units and made around 225 million I make plenty of isk right where I am and see no need to move also this is only one belt of several in the area all of which have similar usage rates my point was and is that this belt was up for damn near 11 hrs a fact that shows the op to be totally full of manure. and as I am almost certain I know the area he is claiming to be talking about and this system is well with in the "20 jumps" the OP claims to have scouted I would even go so far as to say he is making up his entire story.
Ereilian Mythic Inc Gentlemen's.Parlor 78	Posted - 2015.03.27 23:19:33 - [103] - Quote Relax dude, once CCP complete the capital ship nerficide, remove POS's from the game so Team Game of Please Recruit Me Riot can deploy their garbage structure devamp .. yeah ice will be worthless.
BrundleMeth Caldari Provisions Caldari State 408	Posted - 2015.03.28 09:04:19 - [104] - Quote Alexstrazaas wrote: BrundleMeth wrote: Scira Crimson wrote: 1 person = 1 account = 1 character = maximum game integrety Stick it in yer butt... let me guess you got 5 alts mining.... You guessed wrong. I don't mine ever, Wayyy too boring and pay off sucks...
March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1575	Posted - 2015.03.28 10:58:43 - [105] - Quote BrundleMeth wrote: Alexstrazaas wrote: BrundleMeth wrote: Scira Crimson wrote: 1 person = 1 account = 1 character = maximum game integrety Stick it in yer butt... let me guess you got 5 alts mining.... You guessed wrong. I don't mine ever, Wayyy too boring and pay off sucks... ... and i remember times when mining implants were the thing! And getting lvl4 storyline with reward of 'Mining foreman mindlink' could net you 600 million! And people were actually using it! Good times.... The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Tisiphone Dira new order logistics CODE. 178	Posted - 2015.03.28 11:22:38 - [106] - Quote Tuttomenui II wrote: Go to Osmon, sometimes there are up to 3 ice anoms at the same time. And those pesky Code guys are running rampant. I'll tell Liek you recommended his system for mining.
Noragli Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 84	Posted - 2015.03.28 17:14:01 - [107] - Quote Bethan Le Troix wrote: All you have to do is watch them like you appear to be doing in your contacts list. If they all log on within a few seconds of each other they are probably using third party software as it isn't physically possible to do this by hand. If they use this same software to start their mining lasers up as well they are probably breaking the EULA as of January this year. A lot of these characters have been seriously butthurt by the decision but it is better for New Eden in the long run. A chart shown at Fanfest this year showed a massive drop in the ISBoxers after January 1st. If the lasers all come on at the same time just report them all to CCP and they will do the rest. I have noticed a number of the ISBoxers local to my area are no longer running. We will get there in the end. Dependant on ships used you can be proactive and gank some of these multi-bot miners yourself as well. It doesn't take that much in terms of ISK cost and skills. If the characters seem synchonised, such as mining lasers turning all on at the exact same time, yes it's clearly isboxing. But logging in within a few seconds of each other? Do you know how easy it is to log in a bunch of characters all within a few seconds of each other by hand? Just get each account to log in screen and press enter quickly as you select each window by hand.
Jane Bond Eyes in the Skies I.N.F.A.M.Y 0	Posted - 2015.03.29 00:22:33 - [108] - Quote Lfod Shi wrote: +1 for one player, one account. Maybe one day... one day... sigh. And how do you think that can be enforced? I have any number of email addresses. I can make more paypal accounts. I have a bank card and a credit card - and could get other cards with no problem. I could get friends to pay and/or borrow their addresses. I have at least 4 computers capable of running EVE. I have two different broadband connections. I can have make any computer have a different IP address by routing through a VPN. It just cant be done. Unless you propose assigning the police to watch people play. ^^
Jane Bond Eyes in the Skies I.N.F.A.M.Y 0	Posted - 2015.03.29 00:28:33 - [109] - Quote Noragli wrote: [ If the characters seem synchonised, such as mining lasers turning all on at the exact same time, yes it's clearly isboxing. But logging in within a few seconds of each other? Do you know how easy it is to log in a bunch of characters all within a few seconds of each other by hand? Just get each account to log in screen and press enter quickly as you select each window by hand. I believe you are allowed to use ISBOXER to log in accounts and set up windows. Just not for in-game actions. DISCLAIMER - make your own checks before you do it!
Vector Symian 0 Fear 489	Posted - 2015.03.29 01:01:45 - [110] - Quote ice mining ruined...LOL wanders off lolling as he skips

Oxide Ammar 197	Posted - 2015.03.29 05:05:46 - [111] - Quote You are unbelievable guys, we cried about ISBoxing and all people with with 20+ accounts mining/ bombing / ganking and how they are ruining the game. CCP banned ISBoxing now you have new level of demands ? Why don't you ask CCP to hand over ice blocks to you everyday you log in into game? Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
Hermanni Pursiainen The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2015.03.29 05:44:51 - [112] - Quote Mining itself is already a pretty **** way of getting income. You can do stuff like incursions for 120m+/h no problem in super safety. Mining is ** isk and people know it. Thats why it needs to be multiboxed to at least make it somehow feel like you are getting money out of it. Icemining changes were stupid. Mining is stupid. Why mine when you can earn more in less time with less effort, yes thats right less effort. Mining needs to get a huge revamp and buffs so its actually worth people's time.
Tuttomenui II Aliastra Gallente Federation 280	Posted - 2015.03.29 06:07:51 - [113] - Quote Tisiphone Dira wrote: Tuttomenui II wrote: Go to Osmon, sometimes there are up to 3 ice anoms at the same time. And those pesky Code guys are running rampant. I'll tell Liek you recommended his system for mining. OK. But I don't mine. Maybe you can get someone who read my post and decided to go there even with the warning that code is operating in that area.
Kinete Jenius Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 8	Posted - 2015.03.29 06:28:17 - [114] - Quote Hermanni Pursiainen wrote: Mining itself is already a pretty **** way of getting income. You can do stuff like incursions for 120m+/h no problem in super safety. Mining is ** isk and people know it. Thats why it needs to be multiboxed to at least make it somehow feel like you are getting money out of it. Icemining changes were stupid. Mining is stupid. Why mine when you can earn more in less time with less effort, yes thats right less effort. Mining needs to get a huge revamp and buffs so its actually worth people's time. Reality is HQs over time are more around 100m an hour till you invest several billions into your ship so you can run with other like minded people or make friends with them. Mining is low income but there's no way to boost that as it'll just increase the prices of everything farther down the chain of industry.
Torviak Sandman Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.03.29 13:22:45 - [115] - Quote im sorry old chap butt your thread is considered a rant and a violent offense against the EULA. I hereby ask the ISDs to lock your thrread
Torviak Sandman Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.03.29 13:23:31 - [116] - Quote Torviak Sandman wrote: im sorry old chap butt your thread is considered a rant and a violent offense against the EULA. I hereby ask the ISDs to lock your thrread Reminder for the ISDs to take appropriate action
ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons 4198	Posted - 2015.03.29 15:50:21 - [117] - Quote I have removed a rule breaking post and the one quoting it. The Rules: 12. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited. The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a support ticket under the Community & Forums Category. ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Eve Solecist Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 52	Posted - 2015.03.29 16:03:08 - [118] - Quote Hermanni Pursiainen wrote: Mining itself is already a pretty **** way of getting income. You can do stuff like incursions for 120m+/h no problem in super safety. Mining is ** isk and people know it. Thats why it needs to be multiboxed to at least make it somehow feel like you are getting money out of it. Icemining changes were stupid. Mining is stupid. Why mine when you can earn more in less time with less effort, yes thats right less effort. Mining needs to get a huge revamp and buffs so its actually worth people's time. You do not understand how it works, so to help you avoid future posts like these, I will explain it to you in a short and simple manner. The prices of minerals are directly related to the prices of everything built by said minerals. When people ask for "buffs" they usually ask for ... .) Higher yield, because they think selling more means more money/hr. .) Higher prices, because they think that higher prices will result in having more money. .) both. I know I am repeating myself here, but ... The prices of minerals are directly related to the prices of everything built by said minerals. I guess it makes more sense the other way round. Everything you build from minerals is tied to the prices of minerals. .) Higher yield = more minerals/hr = more minerals sold/hr = prices of minerals drop. .) Higher prices = 99% of all modules rise in price = no actual gain in your wallet. I hope this helped teach you why asking for any buffs regarding the income of miners is rather silly, and also brought you a bit closer to understanding how the game works. "Please do not file support tickets to ask if your support ticket will be answered soon." - Actual Quote.
Musashi IV Off-World Mining 43	Posted - 2015.03.29 17:28:47 - [119] - Quote A few weeks ago I wrote a thread on this same subject. CCP ruined my ice mining corp because now the ice only last about 1 hour and you can get maybe 2 to three loads before its gone. As far as im concerned CCP ruined this game!!!
Noragli Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 84	Posted - 2015.03.29 19:07:10 - [120] - Quote Musashi IV wrote: A few weeks ago I wrote a thread on this same subject. CCP ruined my ice mining corp because now the ice only last about 1 hour and you can get maybe 2 to three loads before its gone. As far as im concerned CCP ruined this game!!! Which system is that? Ice lasts for 2-3 hours usually

Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 885	Posted - 2015.03.29 19:12:16 - [121] - Quote Wait, guys I will handle this... MINER! CALM DOWN! the Code ALWAYS wins
ashley Eoner 464	Posted - 2015.03.29 20:19:56 - [122] - Quote Musashi IV wrote: A few weeks ago I wrote a thread on this same subject. CCP ruined my ice mining corp because now the ice only last about 1 hour and you can get maybe 2 to three loads before its gone. As far as im concerned CCP ruined this game!!! So you want CCP to increase the supply so that you earn even less isk per hour?
Brian Harrelstein Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 20	Posted - 2015.03.29 23:03:41 - [123] - Quote Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: my point was and is that this belt was up for damn near 11 hrs a fact that shows the op to be totally full of manure. I used to mine ice in Minmatar space, and I used to have to constantly wait for belts to spawn because of these large fleets. If I was lucky, I would catch them as they spawn and get a good half-hour of mining in before they all show up and force me out of the belt by depleting whatever ice asteroid I choose to mine from. The belt disappears an hour or two later, only to wait 4 hours and do it all over again. I gave up and decided to go into production instead.
Korwin Abre-Kai lichfield exploration and salvage 11	Posted - 2015.03.29 23:30:55 - [124] - Quote Brian Harrelstein wrote: Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: my point was and is that this belt was up for damn near 11 hrs a fact that shows the op to be totally full of manure. I used to mine ice in Minmatar space, and I used to have to constantly wait for belts to spawn because of these large fleets. If I was lucky, I would catch them as they spawn and get a good half-hour of mining in before they all show up and force me out of the belt by depleting whatever ice asteroid I choose to mine from. The belt disappears an hour or two later, only to wait 4 hours and do it all over again. I gave up and decided to go into production instead. why is it that those who think there is a problem all seem to have no idea what a "jump gate" is used for and/or no clue that ice spawns in lots of systems?
Lienzo Amanuensis 61	Posted - 2015.03.29 23:48:35 - [125] - Quote The demand for isotopes is where the strange economic disconnect is taking place. It's not even some vast circle. It's just a injection from one sector of the economy (ice mining) into POS and capital ships. It needs to be redirected. Perhaps to this. The problem for POS is that isotopes are a limiting mechanic. Why do we even need a limiting mechanic? It's not making any POS disappear. Often it seems like there are more dead sticks in the game than live ones. Why penalize players who are taking risks by taxing their activity to support the most popular botting activity. It's another example of creating a positive feedback loop to reward avoiding player interaction. I really hope isotope consumption isn't a part of the new sov 5.0 structures unless ice mining involves a respectable way to get and keep players in space. The other trouble with making ice the prime expense of POS is the effect on POS numbers. Is the number of sticks on R8s several orders of magnitude greater than on R32s? The big trouble there is lack of demand for the R8 products. If it was they who produced the capital ship fuel, things would be a lot more interesting in that arena. Capital ships are their own ball of yarn. Less isotope fuel is being used now than ever. I'm surprised there hasn't been a collapse in isotope prices. If strictly industrial ships used ice isotopes for their cyno capability, it would kinda make sense and be pretty balanced. I've kicked around the idea of an industrial cyno. Currently, we go through a lot of hassle to build them, and then they are pretty much independent once they are born. It's even harder to strike at their logistics chains than it is to strike at caps, and even those few opportunities have declined with the projections changes. To be fair, those have been pretty necessary. If caps are tied to sov structures, then they should be continually dependent upon them. That would mean a switchover from isotopes, to something derived from new structures, or anything which produces conflict. The bulk of building materials for capital ships should be coming from low end moons. Beyond that, modules need charges made from low ends, and they need to get their heat damage or structure repairs from structures and from materials derived from them. Fozziesov makes logging off expensive, but it doesn't tie anything expensive to sov, and that's a major disconnect that established players will exploit. What's the future of Ice though? Well it needs to depend on investment, and investments need to be attackable, and that means the new structures. Your noobcorp multiboxer can't do much if he can't anchor refining installations, or those which will seek out or spawn ice signatures. An even better solution would be procedural generation to allow exploration starting at system belts, allowing people to find all sorts of things, even things for which they were not looking.
Brian Harrelstein Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 20	Posted - 2015.03.30 07:17:14 - [126] - Quote Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: why is it that those who think there is a problem all seem to have no idea what a "jump gate" is used for and/or no clue that ice spawns in lots of systems? Why do you assume I didn't try? We had 3 belt systems nearby and they were all being farmed out in a similar fashion by 3 separate entities.
ashley Eoner 466	Posted - 2015.03.30 14:34:10 - [127] - Quote Brian Harrelstein wrote: Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: why is it that those who think there is a problem all seem to have no idea what a "jump gate" is used for and/or no clue that ice spawns in lots of systems? Why do you assume I didn't try? We had 3 belt systems nearby and they were all being farmed out in a similar fashion by 3 separate entities. So what's your solution then? More ice wouldn't mean more isk for you. Most functions of isboxer outside of using it as a glorified window management software is banned. This is eve htfu and fight for what you want. Otherwise go run missions.
Noragli Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 84	Posted - 2015.03.30 14:34:24 - [128] - Quote Brian Harrelstein wrote: Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: my point was and is that this belt was up for damn near 11 hrs a fact that shows the op to be totally full of manure. I used to mine ice in Minmatar space, and I used to have to constantly wait for belts to spawn because of these large fleets. If I was lucky, I would catch them as they spawn and get a good half-hour of mining in before they all show up and force me out of the belt by depleting whatever ice asteroid I choose to mine from. The belt disappears an hour or two later, only to wait 4 hours and do it all over again. I gave up and decided to go into production instead. Oh are we claiming the spawns only last half an hour now then? First I think it was claimed they last for an hour, now it's half an hour. Why are all posts stating the truth, that anomalies typically last for 2 or 3 hours are ignored? You just here to whine?
Ocih Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums 860	Posted - 2015.03.30 20:34:13 - [129] - Quote You do understand the paradox of your complaint, right OP? If they dump Ice belts out so you can Ice mine your little rump off, the mega fleets will do so as well, the prices will bottom out and you will have something new to complain about. If you had come in saying you wanted to mine your own Ice to augment your Industrial game I could have appreciated that but you seem to present an idea that you want to do it for income. It has been parroted 40 million times, you can mine Dense Veldspar, sell it and get more Ice material or make more ISK/ hr and you always could. There really is absolutely, unequivocally, no reason to mine Ice in High Sec. Go mine something else. Anything else. You are playing an EVE that has been dead for two years.
Brian Harrelstein Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 20	Posted - 2015.03.30 21:36:14 - [130] - Quote Noragli wrote: Oh are we claiming the spawns only last half an hour now then? Troll some more.

Noragli Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 84	Posted - 2015.03.30 23:27:55 - [131] - Quote Brian Harrelstein wrote: Noragli wrote: Oh are we claiming the spawns only last half an hour now then? Troll some more. You're the troll. These mega fleets who show up and target every roid you mine and "force you out of the belt" don't exist. A solo miner can get a good 2 hours of mining per spawn, sometimes 3 hours, and up to 4 hours is possible in certain systems. You're just jealous of guys who get more ice than you because your solo barge can't out mine multiple people.
Vincent Athena V.I.C.E. 3250	Posted - 2015.03.30 23:55:13 - [132] - Quote Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: Brian Harrelstein wrote: Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: my point was and is that this belt was up for damn near 11 hrs a fact that shows the op to be totally full of manure. I used to mine ice in Minmatar space, and I used to have to constantly wait for belts to spawn because of these large fleets. If I was lucky, I would catch them as they spawn and get a good half-hour of mining in before they all show up and force me out of the belt by depleting whatever ice asteroid I choose to mine from. The belt disappears an hour or two later, only to wait 4 hours and do it all over again. I gave up and decided to go into production instead. why is it that those who think there is a problem all seem to have no idea what a "jump gate" is used for and/or no clue that ice spawns in lots of systems? As all the spawns happen at the same time (right at the end of downtime) each day, they tend to get in lock-step. If one system has fewer miners, and lasts longer, miners shift to it. The end result is all belts have about the same number of miners, and all deplete at about the same time. Result: Once your belt is gone, there is little use going to another, as its gone too. The solution would be to have the 4 hour timer stretch across down time. But then we get another player behavior: Locust fleets. These would be when all the miners end up flying from system to system, all in a big group (not necessarily cooperating) and scooping up each belt in turn. It would just be that unless you follow the crowd, you get no ice at all. Know a Frozen fan? Check this out Frozen fanfiction
Korwin Abre-Kai lichfield exploration and salvage 12	Posted - 2015.03.31 00:32:34 - [133] - Quote Brian Harrelstein wrote: Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: why is it that those who think there is a problem all seem to have no idea what a "jump gate" is used for and/or no clue that ice spawns in lots of systems? Why do you assume I didn't try? We had 3 belt systems nearby and they were all being farmed out in a similar fashion by 3 separate entities. sorry but three systems is does not a "try" make so it was not an "assumption" it was a observation. the fact that I am mining ice right now with a grand total of 11 other ships in the belt spread across at least 3 fleets shows that all of you pushing this agenda have put forward zero effort PERIOD you all want a multi billion ISK per month income handed to you well guess what? that aint going to happen EVE has a "competitive" player based economy so when I read your comments all I see is "working as intended"
Korwin Abre-Kai lichfield exploration and salvage 12	Posted - 2015.03.31 00:51:12 - [134] - Quote Vincent Athena wrote: Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: Brian Harrelstein wrote: Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: my point was and is that this belt was up for damn near 11 hrs a fact that shows the op to be totally full of manure. I used to mine ice in Minmatar space, and I used to have to constantly wait for belts to spawn because of these large fleets. If I was lucky, I would catch them as they spawn and get a good half-hour of mining in before they all show up and force me out of the belt by depleting whatever ice asteroid I choose to mine from. The belt disappears an hour or two later, only to wait 4 hours and do it all over again. I gave up and decided to go into production instead. why is it that those who think there is a problem all seem to have no idea what a "jump gate" is used for and/or no clue that ice spawns in lots of systems? As all the spawns happen at the same time (right at the end of downtime) each day, they tend to get in lock-step. If one system has fewer miners, and lasts longer, miners shift to it. The end result is all belts have about the same number of miners, and all deplete at about the same time. Result: Once your belt is gone, there is little use going to another, as its gone too. The solution would be to have the 4 hour timer stretch across down time. But then we get another player behavior: Locust fleets. These would be when all the miners end up flying from system to system, all in a big group (not necessarily cooperating) and scooping up each belt in turn. It would just be that unless you follow the crowd, you get no ice at all. blablabla " I cant be bothered to move away from the high traffic systems" CCP change game mechanics I cant compete in an actual competitive environment because :effort:
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1377	Posted - 2015.03.31 01:05:18 - [135] - Quote Noragli wrote: Brian Harrelstein wrote: Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: my point was and is that this belt was up for damn near 11 hrs a fact that shows the op to be totally full of manure. I used to mine ice in Minmatar space, and I used to have to constantly wait for belts to spawn because of these large fleets. If I was lucky, I would catch them as they spawn and get a good half-hour of mining in before they all show up and force me out of the belt by depleting whatever ice asteroid I choose to mine from. The belt disappears an hour or two later, only to wait 4 hours and do it all over again. I gave up and decided to go into production instead. Oh are we claiming the spawns only last half an hour now then? First I think it was claimed they last for an hour, now it's half an hour. Why are all posts stating the truth, that anomalies typically last for 2 or 3 hours are ignored? You just here to whine? Where are they lasting 2-3 hours routinely? I'm not in the majority of ice belts admittedly but I've not seen any last that long even on off peak times. Or is this primarily non-highsec belts?
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1377	Posted - 2015.03.31 01:10:36 - [136] - Quote Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: Brian Harrelstein wrote: Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: why is it that those who think there is a problem all seem to have no idea what a "jump gate" is used for and/or no clue that ice spawns in lots of systems? Why do you assume I didn't try? We had 3 belt systems nearby and they were all being farmed out in a similar fashion by 3 separate entities. sorry but three systems is does not a "try" make so it was not an "assumption" it was a observation. the fact that I am mining ice right now with a grand total of 11 other ships in the belt spread across at least 3 fleets shows that all of you pushing this agenda have put forward zero effort PERIOD you all want a multi billion ISK per month income handed to you well guess what? that aint going to happen EVE has a "competitive" player based economy so when I read your comments all I see is "working as intended" That actually proves nothing except your playtime happening to fall within availability of the ice spawns. If indeed you are routinely able to get it then your evidence falls against you claim in that you are somehow competing for it and just suggests you happen to be there when others haven't had a chance to deplete it. I too can get ice rather frequently, but am not so delusional as to assume it happens as a result of some great effort. It's usually check systems next door > If ice is there park barge, activate harvester and do something else for several minutes.
Shiloh Templeton Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 273	Posted - 2015.03.31 01:47:57 - [137] - Quote Vincent Athena wrote: As all the spawns happen at the same time (right at the end of downtime) each day If the ice field isn't mined out, it will be in the same state after downtime.
Korwin Abre-Kai lichfield exploration and salvage 12	Posted - 2015.03.31 02:34:37 - [138] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: Brian Harrelstein wrote: Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: why is it that those who think there is a problem all seem to have no idea what a "jump gate" is used for and/or no clue that ice spawns in lots of systems? Why do you assume I didn't try? We had 3 belt systems nearby and they were all being farmed out in a similar fashion by 3 separate entities. sorry but three systems is does not a "try" make so it was not an "assumption" it was a observation. the fact that I am mining ice right now with a grand total of 11 other ships in the belt spread across at least 3 fleets shows that all of you pushing this agenda have put forward zero effort PERIOD you all want a multi billion ISK per month income handed to you well guess what? that aint going to happen EVE has a "competitive" player based economy so when I read your comments all I see is "working as intended" That actually proves nothing except your playtime happening to fall within availability of the ice spawns. If indeed you are routinely able to get it then your evidence falls against you claim in that you are somehow competing for it and just suggests you happen to be there when others haven't had a chance to deplete it. I too can get ice rather frequently, but am not so delusional as to assume it happens as a result of some great effort. It's usually check systems next door > If ice is there park barge, activate harvester and do something else for several minutes. the "effort" is in knowing which systems have low usage in all TZs and yeah I will admit effort is too strong a word but that fact does not negate my point it simply makes the OPs claims that much more pathetic.
Hermanni Pursiainen The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2015.03.31 06:13:03 - [139] - Quote Eve Solecist wrote: Hermanni Pursiainen wrote: Mining itself is already a pretty **** way of getting income. You can do stuff like incursions for 120m+/h no problem in super safety. Mining is isk and people know it. Thats why it needs to be multiboxed to at least make it somehow feel like you are getting money out of it. Icemining changes were stupid. Mining is stupid. Why mine when you can earn more in less time with less effort, yes thats right less effort. Mining needs to get a huge revamp and buffs so its actually worth people's time. edit: I am talking specifically about ore mining, because you started talking about mining in general. You do not understand how it works, so to help you avoid future posts like these, I will explain it to you in a short and simple manner. The prices of minerals are directly related to the prices of everything built by said minerals. When people ask for "buffs" they usually ask for ... .) Higher yield, because they think selling more means more money/hr. .) Higher prices, because they think that higher prices will result in having more money. .) both. I know I am repeating myself here, but ... The prices of minerals are directly related to the prices of everything built by said minerals. I guess it makes more sense the other way round. Everything you build from minerals is tied to the prices of minerals. .) Higher yield = more minerals/hr = more minerals sold/hr = prices of minerals drop. .) Higher prices = 99% of all modules rise in price = no actual gain in your wallet. I hope this helped teach you why asking for any buffs regarding the income of miners is rather silly, and also brought you a bit closer to understanding how the game works. EDIT: See ... the real issue comes from people only looking at the number, but completely ignoring the fact that numbers are meaningless without an attached value. Miners always earn the same amount of value, only changing when there is a shift in prices happening for some reason, which usually doesn't last very long. In the end miners always earn the same value, because there's a fixed ratio minerals/modules. Yes, obviously mining products are the bottom building block for all industry in EVE. Im not saying CCP should increase yield or whatever. Also increasing prices is not something CCP can really do, the market is run by players. Only real way to push mineral prices is to increase demand and that would mean tweaking all industry to require more materials. All in all it would only push prices of almost everything up. Im saying mining needs a rework to be something you actually want to do, something that actually earns you isk. It shouldnt be something that people do afk with 30 alts and make isk by selling mining products. We already have mining missions, but those are just stupid in general. How about combine normal mining with mining missions. You mine to get mining products to sell and isk/lp/standings for doing that ** in the first place. Could actually be something worth the time. Wouldnt upset the market since there would be no real changes in supply or demand and on top of that you would gain isk from an independent source.
Noragli Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 85	Posted - 2015.03.31 07:57:28 - [140] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: Noragli wrote: Brian Harrelstein wrote: Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: my point was and is that this belt was up for damn near 11 hrs a fact that shows the op to be totally full of manure. I used to mine ice in Minmatar space, and I used to have to constantly wait for belts to spawn because of these large fleets. If I was lucky, I would catch them as they spawn and get a good half-hour of mining in before they all show up and force me out of the belt by depleting whatever ice asteroid I choose to mine from. The belt disappears an hour or two later, only to wait 4 hours and do it all over again. I gave up and decided to go into production instead. Oh are we claiming the spawns only last half an hour now then? First I think it was claimed they last for an hour, now it's half an hour. Why are all posts stating the truth, that anomalies typically last for 2 or 3 hours are ignored? You just here to whine? Where are they lasting 2-3 hours routinely? I'm not in the majority of ice belts admittedly but I've not seen any last that long even on off peak times. Or is this primarily non-highsec belts? Primarily? All over hi-sec there are such systems, with fewer closer to jita, so just stay away from systems close to jita. It takes effort to scout out the best systems and if you just check 1 or 2 systems and pick one of those you can bet you are missing out on a better system somewhere else. I know of systems in gallente and min space that always last for 4 hours and up to 5 hours.

Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1377	Posted - 2015.03.31 08:04:18 - [141] - Quote Noragli wrote: Tyberius Franklin wrote: Noragli wrote: Brian Harrelstein wrote: Korwin Abre-Kai wrote: my point was and is that this belt was up for damn near 11 hrs a fact that shows the op to be totally full of manure. I used to mine ice in Minmatar space, and I used to have to constantly wait for belts to spawn because of these large fleets. If I was lucky, I would catch them as they spawn and get a good half-hour of mining in before they all show up and force me out of the belt by depleting whatever ice asteroid I choose to mine from. The belt disappears an hour or two later, only to wait 4 hours and do it all over again. I gave up and decided to go into production instead. Oh are we claiming the spawns only last half an hour now then? First I think it was claimed they last for an hour, now it's half an hour. Why are all posts stating the truth, that anomalies typically last for 2 or 3 hours are ignored? You just here to whine? Where are they lasting 2-3 hours routinely? I'm not in the majority of ice belts admittedly but I've not seen any last that long even on off peak times. Or is this primarily non-highsec belts? Primarily? All over hi-sec there are such systems, with fewer closer to jita, so just stay away from systems close to jita. It takes effort to scout out the best systems and if you just check 1 or 2 systems and pick one of those you can bet you are missing out on a better system somewhere else. Considering I'm nowhere near Jita that certainly has nothing to do with the times I'm seeing. If they're "all over highsec" I'd imagine the ones near me should qualify. That or all over highsec excludes most of highsec.
Noragli Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 85	Posted - 2015.03.31 08:08:48 - [142] - Quote I know of systems in gallente and minmatar space that always last for 4 hours and up to 5 hours.
Rose Honey Small Holdings Inc. 2	Posted - 2015.03.31 08:52:09 - [143] - Quote Falken Falcon wrote: What do you suggest, ban alts? and have you tried leaving high sec? There is plenty of ice in new eden if one is willing Also input automation is bannable, so isboxing is no no. If you suspect that someone is doing that, report them. Isboxer is not banned at all. You can still use it for a number of things without breaking any rules.
Man Milk Ugly Duckling Inc 18	Posted - 2015.03.31 20:19:54 - [144] - Quote A couple of suggestions.... 1. Join/create a corporation with other players that becomes the fleet that mines out the spawn thus pushing out the competition. You don't have to go BFF style with them, you all want the same thing so fleet up, say a polite hello on comms & then mine away with fleet/Orca boosts running. 2. Try other activities. You never know, you may actually find something else more enjoyable. There are so many other things ingame that can be done solo if you really don't want to socialise. Eve is only a game so don't get frustrated with it and most of all don't become obsessed with a fat wallet full of Isk if all you plan on doing is sitting in ice belts. Peace xxx 'Fail we may. Sail we must.'
Spinzel Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.03.31 20:43:58 - [145] - Quote I went to mine in a random hi-sec ice system not far from jita today. The spawn after DT lasted for over 3 hours and when it respawned again at around1900 EVE time there wasn't that many people again so overall a good session. No problem here, a system you're in is really busy, find another.
ashley Eoner 466	Posted - 2015.03.31 22:36:23 - [146] - Quote Hermanni Pursiainen wrote: Eve Solecist wrote: Hermanni Pursiainen wrote: Mining itself is already a pretty **** way of getting income. You can do stuff like incursions for 120m+/h no problem in super safety. Mining is isk and people know it. Thats why it needs to be multiboxed to at least make it somehow feel like you are getting money out of it. Icemining changes were stupid. Mining is stupid. Why mine when you can earn more in less time with less effort, yes thats right less effort. Mining needs to get a huge revamp and buffs so its actually worth people's time. edit: I am talking specifically about ore mining, because you started talking about mining in general. You do not understand how it works, so to help you avoid future posts like these, I will explain it to you in a short and simple manner. The prices of minerals are directly related to the prices of everything built by said minerals. When people ask for "buffs" they usually ask for ... .) Higher yield, because they think selling more means more money/hr. .) Higher prices, because they think that higher prices will result in having more money. .) both. I know I am repeating myself here, but ... The prices of minerals are directly related to the prices of everything built by said minerals. I guess it makes more sense the other way round. Everything you build from minerals is tied to the prices of minerals. .) Higher yield = more minerals/hr = more minerals sold/hr = prices of minerals drop. .) Higher prices = 99% of all modules rise in price = no actual gain in your wallet. I hope this helped teach you why asking for any buffs regarding the income of miners is rather silly, and also brought you a bit closer to understanding how the game works. EDIT: See ... the real issue comes from people only looking at the number, but completely ignoring the fact that numbers are meaningless without an attached value. Miners always earn the same amount of value, only changing when there is a shift in prices happening for some reason, which usually doesn't last very long. In the end miners always earn the same value, because there's a fixed ratio minerals/modules. Yes, obviously mining products are the bottom building block for all industry in EVE. Im not saying CCP should increase yield or whatever. Also increasing prices is not something CCP can really do, the market is run by players. Only real way to push mineral prices is to increase demand and that would mean tweaking all industry to require more materials. All in all it would only push prices of almost everything up. Im saying mining needs a rework to be something you actually want to do, something that actually earns you isk. It shouldnt be something that people do afk with 30 alts and make isk by selling mining products. We already have mining missions, but those are just stupid in general. How about combine normal mining with mining missions. You mine to get mining products to sell and isk/lp/standings for doing that ** in the first place. Could actually be something worth the time. Wouldnt upset the market since there would be no real changes in supply or demand and on top of that you would gain isk from an independent source. So basically you want CCP to snap their fingers and magically increase your isk income because you can't be bothered to. There are many ways for you to make more isk and if you consider mining to not be worth it I question why you continue. Obviously mining is worth it to enough people or there would be ore shortages and possibly higher prices. Anything that makes mining "something that actually earns isk" means you've increased the costs of ores which increases the cost of minerals which increases the costs of modules while also increasing the costs of everything else. So overall all parts of and including the ship increase in cost so you end up where you were before in income relative to ship costs. All you managed to do is screw most everyone else over in the process.. Level 4 mining missions are good for +30m an hour while mostly AFK. How would you combine that with regular mining without making it silly in income? If you want to convince people you're going to need something more than vague pronouncements. Currently many level 4 security missions already have large stores of roids and most people ignore the rocks because the actual mission part is more profitable. How will you change that so it's the other way around without effecting the ore/mineral market and thus everything else? Like I said earlier you should be pitying anyone that is mining with 30 alts in highsec. I'd dispute that anyone is even doing that anymore. You're probably mistaking a small group of people for a boxer. I know a few groups that look like a boxer when they are out mining. Buy a t1 variation of a in interceptor and fit it like an interceptor with an ore scanner in the cargohold. Now go check a bunch of a systems including dead ends and such. Use the ore scanner to see what's available. If you spend a little time I guarantee you'll find not only a lot of ore that isn't being mined but also ice.
Hermanni Pursiainen The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2015.04.01 04:08:59 - [147] - Quote ashley Eoner wrote: Hermanni Pursiainen wrote: Eve Solecist wrote: Hermanni Pursiainen wrote: Mining itself is already a pretty **** way of getting income. You can do stuff like incursions for 120m+/h no problem in super safety. Mining is isk and people know it. Thats why it needs to be multiboxed to at least make it somehow feel like you are getting money out of it. Icemining changes were stupid. Mining is stupid. Why mine when you can earn more in less time with less effort, yes thats right less effort. Mining needs to get a huge revamp and buffs so its actually worth people's time. edit: I am talking specifically about ore mining, because you started talking about mining in general. You do not understand how it works, so to help you avoid future posts like these, I will explain it to you in a short and simple manner. The prices of minerals are directly related to the prices of everything built by said minerals. When people ask for "buffs" they usually ask for ... .) Higher yield, because they think selling more means more money/hr. .) Higher prices, because they think that higher prices will result in having more money. .) both. I know I am repeating myself here, but ... The prices of minerals are directly related to the prices of everything built by said minerals. I guess it makes more sense the other way round. Everything you build from minerals is tied to the prices of minerals. .) Higher yield = more minerals/hr = more minerals sold/hr = prices of minerals drop. .) Higher prices = 99% of all modules rise in price = no actual gain in your wallet. I hope this helped teach you why asking for any buffs regarding the income of miners is rather silly, and also brought you a bit closer to understanding how the game works. EDIT: See ... the real issue comes from people only looking at the number, but completely ignoring the fact that numbers are meaningless without an attached value. Miners always earn the same amount of value, only changing when there is a shift in prices happening for some reason, which usually doesn't last very long. In the end miners always earn the same value, because there's a fixed ratio minerals/modules. Yes, obviously mining products are the bottom building block for all industry in EVE. Im not saying CCP should increase yield or whatever. Also increasing prices is not something CCP can really do, the market is run by players. Only real way to push mineral prices is to increase demand and that would mean tweaking all industry to require more materials. All in all it would only push prices of almost everything up. Im saying mining needs a rework to be something you actually want to do, something that actually earns you isk. It shouldnt be something that people do afk with 30 alts and make isk by selling mining products. We already have mining missions, but those are just stupid in general. How about combine normal mining with mining missions. You mine to get mining products to sell and isk/lp/standings for doing that in the first place. Could actually be something worth the time. Wouldnt upset the market since there would be no real changes in supply or demand and on top of that you would gain isk from an independent source. So basically you want CCP to snap their fingers and magically increase your isk income because you can't be bothered to. There are many ways for you to make more isk and if you consider mining to not be worth it I question why you continue. Obviously mining is worth it to enough people or there would be ore shortages and possibly higher prices. Anything that makes mining "something that actually earns isk" means you've increased the costs of ores which increases the cost of minerals which increases the costs of modules while also increasing the costs of everything else. So overall all parts of and including the ship increase in cost so you end up where you were before in income relative to ship costs. All you managed to do is screw most everyone else over in the process.. Level 4 mining missions are good for +30m an hour while mostly AFK. How would you combine that with regular mining without making it silly in income? If you want to convince people you're going to need something more than vague pronouncements. Currently many level 4 security missions already have large stores of roids and most people ignore the rocks because the actual mission part is more profitable. How will you change that so it's the other way around without effecting the ore/mineral market and thus everything else? Like I said earlier you should be pitying anyone that is mining with 30 alts in highsec. I'd dispute that anyone is even doing that anymore. You're probably mistaking a small group of people for a boxer. I know a few groups that look like a boxer when they are out mining. Buy a t1 variation of a in interceptor and fit it like an interceptor with an ore scanner in the cargohold. Now go check a bunch of a systems including dead ends and such. Use the ore scanner to see what's available. If you spend a little time I guarantee you'll find not only a lot of ore that isn't being mined but also ice. Yes exactly, there are more ways to make isk than just mining. Mining however is such an important thing to the entirety of EVE. Someone has to do ** like this in order for everything else to be possible in game. So why are miners the bottom feeders? They should have the same possibility for greater income just like mission runners, ratters, incursioners etc. Currently its not possible. All Im saying is mining needs to be worth while. No point arguing any different. Having a combined mining mission + normal mining setup would mean what 60m/h with it being half mining product income and half mission income. Mining product income again is dependent on the market so it is subject to change.
Hermanni Pursiainen The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2015.04.01 04:09:48 - [148] - Quote And that alone is still HALF of what incursioners make per hour. At least it would be a step in the right direction though.
ashley Eoner 468	Posted - 2015.04.01 20:18:40 - [149] - Quote Hermanni Pursiainen wrote: Yes exactly, there are more ways to make isk than just mining. Mining however is such an important thing to the entirety of EVE. Someone has to do **** like this in order for everything else to be possible in game. So why are miners the bottom feeders? They should have the same possibility for greater income just like mission runners, ratters, incursioners etc. Currently its not possible. All Im saying is mining needs to be worth while. No point arguing any different. Having a combined mining mission + normal mining setup would mean what 60m/h with it being half mining product income and half mission income. Mining product income again is dependent on the market so it is subject to change. Because miners only engage in bottom feeding. Mining is the absolute bottom of the industry food chain. If you want to make more isk mining than invest a little time into producing a more refined product. Mission runners make awful isk per hour if they stick to doing level 1 missions. They have to upgrade their capabilities and invest time/isk into getting to the real isk making levels. So stop sticking to the level 1 aspect of industry.... They already have combined missions with mining in several security missions. Most people ignore the roids because they don't want to be bothered with spending time/effort. So there's going to need to be more than just put regular ore in the mining mission sites... Incursion runners make a wild variety of isk per hour depending on contests/population/fellow fleet members/FCs/etc. I've been in HQ fleets where people shuffling in and out and some bad scouting caused us to only do about 70m an hour for a while. I've been in fleets where only +4b isk ships were allowed and still only done 100m an hour. On the flip side you can occasionally +150m an hour for well about an hour. Maintaining +120m an hour for long periods of time is difficult. Every little second of wasted time adds up quickly when engaged in an activity over a length of time.
admiral root Red Galaxy 2597	Posted - 2015.04.01 20:46:57 - [150] - Quote Hermanni Pursiainen wrote: So why are miners the bottom feeders? They should have the same possibility for greater income just like mission runners, ratters, incursioners etc. Currently its not possible. If you want greater income from mining, destroy the competition - all of it. No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff \| No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that. A recent survey of applicants to CODE. corporations showed that 100% accepted James 315 as their saviour. You can't argue with facts.

Olivia Moon School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.04.02 01:50:08 - [151] - Quote I wonder, why doesn't people understand the mechanism of economics? Everything is about supply and demand. The ice mining changes limits the supply and hence, the number of ice going into the market is fixed since the change. It means the price of ice is totally reflected by BUYERS - namely demands. I understand that you are mad at people mining in a very hardcore way - multiboxing. It is their play style and you are free to have the same style. What CCP did, is to stabilise the price of ice by limiting the supply. Can't you see how great is that? To the point of multi boxing, the spawn actually impacted multi boxing as well. You got bunch of accounts doesn't mean you can have easy money. In terms of easy, it means you need to be conscious to the timing of each spawn. You miss the spawn, you get less isk. Without this change, it means whenever you like to mine, you log in and mine. CCP could also add items that uses ice to manufacture. Fuel blocks and jump fuels are the main use of ice. Which means a limited DEMAND. And eventually, is the only cause to the price fluctuation.
Boslar somethingsomethingsomethingdarkside Together We Solo 0	Posted - 2015.04.04 15:36:33 - [152] - Quote Moar miner tears
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6692	Posted - 2015.04.04 16:49:08 - [153] - Quote Man Milk wrote: A couple of suggestions.... 1. Join/create a corporation with other players that becomes the fleet that mines out the spawn thus pushing out the competition. You don't have to go BFF style with them, you all want the same thing so fleet up, say a polite hello on comms & then mine away with fleet/Orca boosts running. Or instead, follow the blobbers' ideal Just join the fleet that mines out the spawn ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
Gallowmere Rorschach Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 965	Posted - 2015.04.04 23:59:33 - [154] - Quote In case it hasn't already been mentioned: I'd recommend joining a nullsec corp. Christ, we have icebelts everywhere that never even get 10% depleted, let alone wiped out every spawn.
13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 91	Posted - 2015.04.06 02:29:38 - [155] - Quote Most MMOs are gambler's dilemma. You keep coming back because of investment. The game was supposed to be immersive. Not sure how removed clones is immersive, nor how multibox farming is immersive, but w/e. Yes, Farming has ruined it. We have to admit the economics behind ore: Those who are willing to sell for a lower price will outbid you as a miner. Multiboxing compounds that. Farmers have always ruined game economies, and instead of battening down on it, and tightening restrictions, CCP caved to short term money interests by allowing multiboxing farming and so on. I've seen guys with 20 alts, all named Xxxxx1 through Xxxxx20 and so on, mining out entire belts with their ships. All those paid accounts are great for CCP, the automation (scripting) makes it easy for the player, and ore prices drop causing it to be a worthless profession for newbies... Which is where mission running comes in. The easier the game gets, the less worthwhile it is for new blood, which is exactly who they believe they're targeting by making the game easier. ashley Eoner wrote: Hermanni Pursiainen wrote: Yes exactly, there are more ways to make isk than just mining. Mining however is such an important thing to the entirety of EVE. Someone has to do **** like this in order for everything else to be possible in game. So why are miners the bottom feeders? They should have the same possibility for greater income just like mission runners, ratters, incursioners etc. Currently its not possible. All Im saying is mining needs to be worth while. No point arguing any different. Having a combined mining mission + normal mining setup would mean what 60m/h with it being half mining product income and half mission income. Mining product income again is dependent on the market so it is subject to change. Because miners only engage in bottom feeding. Mining is the absolute bottom of the industry food chain. If you want to make more isk mining than invest a little time into producing a more refined product. Mission runners make awful isk per hour if they stick to doing level 1 missions. They have to upgrade their capabilities and invest time/isk into getting to the real isk making levels. So stop sticking to the level 1 aspect of industry.... They already have combined missions with mining in several security missions. Most people ignore the roids because they don't want to be bothered with spending time/effort. So there's going to need to be more than just put regular ore in the mining mission sites... Incursion runners make a wild variety of isk per hour depending on contests/population/fellow fleet members/FCs/etc. I've been in HQ fleets where people shuffling in and out and some bad scouting caused us to only do about 70m an hour for a while. I've been in fleets where only +4b isk ships were allowed and still only done 100m an hour. On the flip side you can occasionally +150m an hour for well about an hour. Maintaining +120m an hour for long periods of time is difficult. Every little second of wasted time adds up quickly when engaged in an activity over a length of time. This is true to the extent that upgrades are necessary to grow for runners or miners. Its not true to the extent that mining is limited. Its difficult to spawn your own personal mining belt by going to an agent. At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6703	Posted - 2015.04.06 02:35:33 - [156] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: All those paid accounts are great for CCP, the automation (scripting) makes it easy for the player, and ore prices drop causing it to be a worthless profession for newbies... Automation? Did you make sure to petition them, that isn't allowed... ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
ashley Eoner 468	Posted - 2015.04.06 03:40:56 - [157] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: This is true to the extent that upgrades are necessary to grow for runners or miners. Its not true to the extent that mining is limited. Its difficult to spawn your own personal mining belt by going to an agent. If by difficult you mean bothersome to talk to an agent more than once. What you described for a multiboxer is illegal and bannable.
13kr1d1 Hedion University Amarr Empire 91	Posted - 2015.04.06 06:31:50 - [158] - Quote Im not sure when that changed, but allowing cloned keystrokes to multiple boxes has been something CCP has allowed before. At 5 drones of T2, the Tristan is nearly as powerful as the Algos, with a cheaper price tag, better maneuverability and speed, and smaller sig radius to avoid the lazy carebearish T3 station blapping -10s who have no life. Pick tristan for FW.
ashley Eoner 468	Posted - 2015.04.06 07:52:47 - [159] - Quote https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=387571 13kr1d1 wrote: Im not sure when that changed, but allowing cloned keystrokes to multiple boxes has been something CCP has allowed before.
Spinzel Hedion University Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.04.06 08:33:14 - [160] - Quote 13kr1d1 wrote: Im not sure when that changed, but allowing cloned keystrokes to multiple boxes has been something CCP has allowed before. The days you spoke off are over, I haven't seen any such xxx1 xxx2 names in a long time. The kind of players who did that (input broadcasters) had their playstyle banned.

Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2414	Posted - 2015.04.06 13:22:35 - [161] - Quote Too many people jumping on top of limited resources. Problem: the stuff is too valuable Solution: seed more until nobody can mine it all What will happen: value will plummet I support the above action and feel all highsec resources should be extremely abundant. A Caldari is just a Gallente who begged to have their civil liberties taken away.
Dave Stark 7469	Posted - 2015.04.06 13:32:53 - [162] - Quote refreshing, another "i should be able to do the same thing as an organised and efficient group" thread. make your own friends, and outmine the competition. if you can't make friends, i'm sure you can persuade some one to deliver some CNAM to your competition at a knock down rate. Reaver Glitterstim wrote: Too many people jumping on top of limited resources. Problem: the stuff is too valuable Solution: seed more until nobody can mine it all What will happen: value will plummet I support the above action and feel all highsec resources should be extremely abundant. so, you mean the exact system we had before the anomaly change?


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