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Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 14:48:59 -
[31] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:congratulations mate. know im only poking fun I thought I was just poking fun. And then we conceived the second one. LOL ... congratulations!
Tell us when you have five! :) |
Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 14:50:19 -
[32] - Quote
Hicksimus wrote:I like to imagine EvE arguments about "gameplay mechanics" in terms of how stupid they would sound in other games.
Let's say you have a large group of people playing/observing a game of Monopoly....it's usually very long, very boring and very full of people getting angry. The game eventually ends many days later with many ruined friendships and at worst somebody steals money during a bio break.
But have a large group of EvE players playing/observing Monopoly and suddenly things go full ******. One of the players realizes that the board is quite small and he can punch the other players in the face for an advantage. If that player happens to be from the blue doughnut everybody jumps in to declare that it's legitimate because if the game designers didn't want people to punch others in the face they'd have made the board larger because it's a gameplay mechanic while all of the normal people in the world wonder WTF is wrong with EvE players. Saving that one for truth..... ROFL
I WANT TO GIVE YOU THOUSAND LIKES BUT ITS NOT WORKING!!! |
Serene Repose
2502
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 14:51:33 -
[33] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Serene Repose wrote:As long as players can manipulate the actual shape of the playing board, and in a way that is virtually undetectable with certainty, the game is rigged. You cannot believe what you're looking at. What is Grid Fu? Take some time and read this. GRID FU A Practical Manual (By Goonwaffles)How is this not an exploit? Hmmm? I'm sorry, but were you under the impression that all of space in this game is one giant continuous grid? You clearly didn't read the manual. Just warping to some place in space creates a grid if you are the first thing there. Expanding a grid happens automatically when you move around and drop something as a place holder. That manual is great for learning exactly how grids work and how to use CCP-designed grid mechanics to your advantage. I'm sorry, but did I say that?
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to type on your keyboard and remove all doubt.
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Vyl Vit
1146
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Posted - 2015.03.26 14:53:12 -
[34] - Quote
Oh, so you can manipulate the grid. Oh, so you had a bad experience with it. Oh, so it's not fair. HTFU and go gank somebody. You'll feel better for it.
(Brought to you as a public service by Sociopaths Unlimited, all rights reserved.)
Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
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malcovas Henderson
THoF
351
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 14:56:31 -
[35] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
My wife just had our second child(literally yesterday), so while I'm a tad busy, now that she's finally not having a high risk pregnancy (and the thrice weekly doctor visits that entailed), my schedule should free up quite a bit in the near future.
Congratulation to you and your wife dude. All the best wishes to both of you. Now I am expecting Young Kaarous to be flying a cata vsoon.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
8115
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 14:58:20 -
[36] - Quote
Eve Solecist wrote:Hicksimus wrote:I like to imagine EvE arguments about "gameplay mechanics" in terms of how stupid they would sound in other games.
Let's say you have a large group of people playing/observing a game of Monopoly....it's usually very long, very boring and very full of people getting angry. The game eventually ends many days later with many ruined friendships and at worst somebody steals money during a bio break.
But have a large group of EvE players playing/observing Monopoly and suddenly things go full ******. One of the players realizes that the board is quite small and he can punch the other players in the face for an advantage. If that player happens to be from the blue doughnut everybody jumps in to declare that it's legitimate because if the game designers didn't want people to punch others in the face they'd have made the board larger because it's a gameplay mechanic while all of the normal people in the world wonder WTF is wrong with EvE players. Saving that one for truth..... ROFL I WANT TO GIVE YOU THOUSAND LIKES BUT ITS NOT WORKING!!!
Not empty quoting. Really.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Hengle Teron
Just Another Corp XIV
44009
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 15:05:24 -
[37] - Quote
bonkerss wrote:we unintentionally gridfued the other night while dropping a can at a "wrong" spot. resulting in the loss of the entire fleet because we warped on our ping at 10 but we were like maybe a couple k off the other grid. unfortunately the people in the other grid could see us and we got locked and killed by stuff we could neither see nor lock on our grid.
so basically you can set the grid up so that one side can see the other but the other side is not aware that a whole fleet is on top of them. also funny is the doctor bubbled us and we couldn't warp even tough the bubble was not visible on our grid.
if you think this is smart use of game mechanic then im not really sure whats wrong with you:) this awfully looks like a horrible exploit. at least ccp reimbursed the whole fleet. but this tactic can easily be abused and people probably do it on a daily basis.
so **** gridfu and make it a bannable offense cool story bro |
Amarrchecko
Hedion University Amarr Empire
24
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 15:11:55 -
[38] - Quote
Eve Solecist wrote:No one is exploiting a weakness in design or code.
How in the world did you convince yourself that this is true? |
Serene Repose
2502
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 15:20:55 -
[39] - Quote
Hengle Teron wrote:bonkerss wrote:we unintentionally gridfued the other night while dropping a can at a "wrong" spot. resulting in the loss of the entire fleet because we warped on our ping at 10 but we were like maybe a couple k off the other grid. unfortunately the people in the other grid could see us and we got locked and killed by stuff we could neither see nor lock on our grid.
so basically you can set the grid up so that one side can see the other but the other side is not aware that a whole fleet is on top of them. also funny is the doctor bubbled us and we couldn't warp even tough the bubble was not visible on our grid.
if you think this is smart use of game mechanic then im not really sure whats wrong with you:) this awfully looks like a horrible exploit. at least ccp reimbursed the whole fleet. but this tactic can easily be abused and people probably do it on a daily basis.
so **** gridfu and make it a bannable offense cool story bro Oh look. We have erudite among us!
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to type on your keyboard and remove all doubt.
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Hengle Teron
Just Another Corp XIV
44010
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 15:22:28 -
[40] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Hengle Teron wrote:bonkerss wrote:we unintentionally gridfued the other night while dropping a can at a "wrong" spot. resulting in the loss of the entire fleet because we warped on our ping at 10 but we were like maybe a couple k off the other grid. unfortunately the people in the other grid could see us and we got locked and killed by stuff we could neither see nor lock on our grid.
so basically you can set the grid up so that one side can see the other but the other side is not aware that a whole fleet is on top of them. also funny is the doctor bubbled us and we couldn't warp even tough the bubble was not visible on our grid.
if you think this is smart use of game mechanic then im not really sure whats wrong with you:) this awfully looks like a horrible exploit. at least ccp reimbursed the whole fleet. but this tactic can easily be abused and people probably do it on a daily basis.
so **** gridfu and make it a bannable offense cool story bro Oh look. We have erudite among us! Oh I'm sorry, did you want to say anything before my Brutor smashing club reaches your head ? |
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Maeliki Sullanniel
Nox Draconum Holding Corp Nox Draconum
0
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 15:23:49 -
[41] - Quote
Eve Solecist wrote: ...
Also... I look soooooo achuran, but still like myself. ^_^
*\o/* Yay! for looking Achuran!
Boo! for Grid-Fu! |
Serene Repose
2502
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 15:26:24 -
[42] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:How exactly would you have the server partition grids? Uncharted Waters, an NES game with a map depicting all of Earth, the whole globe, has to break that map into loadable sections (considering how big Earth is). With a game that primitive they didn't seem to require a system that is exploitable, or one that can be reformed and reshaped by the player. Are you saying ten years later in technology (when EVE was born) something about the advancement of technology forced us to revert to something more primitive than an NES game? I think not. Nice try. This methodology was known years before EVE was developed.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to type on your keyboard and remove all doubt.
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6184
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 15:31:49 -
[43] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Should the capability for a player (or group of players) to manipulate the boundaries of the grid within the game mechanics due simply to understanding obscure properties of the game engine that are not easily discovered and used by the player base as a whole (and grants an distinct advantage) be completely reworked? Yeah, it really should be.
This is a great example of one of those things that CCP is firmly trying to eradicate. You mean.. like Hyperdunking? CCP is not firmly patterned to do anything. Quote:Players should succeed through superior use of known mechanics, not though superior knowledge of game related trivia and technical limitations. Players should succeed through research, risk, and intelligence. Grid fu fits perfectly within the EVE sphere. You should probably look at CCP's recent STRONG emphasis on making game mechanics more transparent before you use that argument. They want players competing on a level where skill matters, not your ability to find flaws in obscure game mechanics. To this end contrived and non-intuitive game mechanics just like this one are being systematically eliminated from the game.
View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
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Vyl Vit
1146
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 15:35:14 -
[44] - Quote
Hengle Teron wrote:Serene Repose wrote:Hengle Teron wrote:bonkerss wrote:we unintentionally gridfued the other night while dropping a can at a "wrong" spot. resulting in the loss of the entire fleet because we warped on our ping at 10 but we were like maybe a couple k off the other grid. unfortunately the people in the other grid could see us and we got locked and killed by stuff we could neither see nor lock on our grid.
so basically you can set the grid up so that one side can see the other but the other side is not aware that a whole fleet is on top of them. also funny is the doctor bubbled us and we couldn't warp even tough the bubble was not visible on our grid.
if you think this is smart use of game mechanic then im not really sure whats wrong with you:) this awfully looks like a horrible exploit. at least ccp reimbursed the whole fleet. but this tactic can easily be abused and people probably do it on a daily basis.
so **** gridfu and make it a bannable offense cool story bro Oh look. We have erudite among us! Oh I'm sorry, did you want to say anything before my Brutor smashing club reaches your head ? Find a Brutor and smash it?
Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
|
Serene Repose
2502
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 15:38:54 -
[45] - Quote
Hengle Teron wrote:Serene Repose wrote:Hengle Teron wrote:bonkerss wrote:we unintentionally gridfued the other night while dropping a can at a "wrong" spot. resulting in the loss of the entire fleet because we warped on our ping at 10 but we were like maybe a couple k off the other grid. unfortunately the people in the other grid could see us and we got locked and killed by stuff we could neither see nor lock on our grid.
so basically you can set the grid up so that one side can see the other but the other side is not aware that a whole fleet is on top of them. also funny is the doctor bubbled us and we couldn't warp even tough the bubble was not visible on our grid.
if you think this is smart use of game mechanic then im not really sure whats wrong with you:) this awfully looks like a horrible exploit. at least ccp reimbursed the whole fleet. but this tactic can easily be abused and people probably do it on a daily basis.
so **** gridfu and make it a bannable offense cool story bro Oh look. We have erudite among us! Oh I'm sorry, did you want to say anything before my Brutor smashing club reaches your head ? Look! It's trying to be fearsome and scary and stuff! WoooOOOOooOOOOooOOOOoooo. I'm skeered. Ain't you guys skeered?
HEY SPIKE, WHADDYA LIKE?
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to type on your keyboard and remove all doubt.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9179
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 15:38:57 -
[46] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:Hengle Teron wrote:Serene Repose wrote:Hengle Teron wrote:bonkerss wrote:we unintentionally gridfued the other night while dropping a can at a "wrong" spot. resulting in the loss of the entire fleet because we warped on our ping at 10 but we were like maybe a couple k off the other grid. unfortunately the people in the other grid could see us and we got locked and killed by stuff we could neither see nor lock on our grid.
so basically you can set the grid up so that one side can see the other but the other side is not aware that a whole fleet is on top of them. also funny is the doctor bubbled us and we couldn't warp even tough the bubble was not visible on our grid.
if you think this is smart use of game mechanic then im not really sure whats wrong with you:) this awfully looks like a horrible exploit. at least ccp reimbursed the whole fleet. but this tactic can easily be abused and people probably do it on a daily basis.
so **** gridfu and make it a bannable offense cool story bro Oh look. We have erudite among us! Oh I'm sorry, did you want to say anything before my Brutor smashing club reaches your head ? Find a Brutor and smash it? haha, grammar
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp Vae. Victis.
6184
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 15:49:27 -
[47] - Quote
Well, on the bright side I seem to remember references to necessary changes that may have to happen to grid mechanics as we get into structures we can deploy anywhere.
Heck, they were looking strongly into new mechanics along this line when they were exploring moving celestial bodies, such as orbiting planets/moons/stations or comets moving about a system.
Progress was made then, and this was a while ago. With any luck the options being discussed for new structures and their placement means that some advancement has been made along this line.
View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
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Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
655
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 16:08:03 -
[48] - Quote
I can see some folks growing reliant on such things as these suddenly having to suck air through their a$$hole$ trying to figure out another way to play. That's a thing about cheating. And, when you do it, you know that's what it is, so don't try some schoolkid argument about "no it ain't, nannner nanner."
It's just not a good idea to succumb to the fashionable idea that if you don't get caught it's alright.
The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
12304
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 16:22:28 -
[49] - Quote
malcovas Henderson wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
My wife just had our second child(literally yesterday), so while I'm a tad busy, now that she's finally not having a high risk pregnancy (and the thrice weekly doctor visits that entailed), my schedule should free up quite a bit in the near future.
Congratulation to you and your wife dude. All the best wishes to both of you. Now I am expecting Young Kaarous to be flying a cata vsoon.
Stay tuned...
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Remiel Pollard
Against All Odds.
6563
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 16:26:51 -
[50] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:I can see some folks growing reliant on such things as these suddenly having to suck air through their a$$hole$ trying to figure out another way to play. That's a thing about cheating. And, when you do it, you know that's what it is, so don't try some schoolkid argument about "no it ain't, nannner nanner."
It's just not a good idea to succumb to the fashionable idea that if you don't get caught it's alright.
No one's cheating though, and it's not a 'schoolkid' argument, it's not an exploit and CCP have said as much. Anyone getting 'caught' doing it won't even get a slap on the wrist.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Vyl Vit
1148
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 16:27:34 -
[51] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Pok Nibin wrote:I can see some folks growing reliant on such things as these suddenly having to suck air through their a$$hole$ trying to figure out another way to play. That's a thing about cheating. And, when you do it, you know that's what it is, so don't try some schoolkid argument about "no it ain't, nannner nanner."
It's just not a good idea to succumb to the fashionable idea that if you don't get caught it's alright. No one's cheating though, and it's not a 'schoolkid' argument, it's not an exploit and CCP have said as much. Was he talking about just this?
Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
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Remiel Pollard
Against All Odds.
6563
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 16:28:42 -
[52] - Quote
Vyl Vit wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Pok Nibin wrote:I can see some folks growing reliant on such things as these suddenly having to suck air through their a$$hole$ trying to figure out another way to play. That's a thing about cheating. And, when you do it, you know that's what it is, so don't try some schoolkid argument about "no it ain't, nannner nanner."
It's just not a good idea to succumb to the fashionable idea that if you don't get caught it's alright. No one's cheating though, and it's not a 'schoolkid' argument, it's not an exploit and CCP have said as much. Was he talking about just this?
This thread is about grid-fu. If he's talking about something else, he should specify, and probably talk about it somewhere else.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Pok Nibin
Filial Pariahs
655
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 16:33:50 -
[53] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Pok Nibin wrote:I can see some folks growing reliant on such things as these suddenly having to suck air through their a$$hole$ trying to figure out another way to play. That's a thing about cheating. And, when you do it, you know that's what it is, so don't try some schoolkid argument about "no it ain't, nannner nanner."
It's just not a good idea to succumb to the fashionable idea that if you don't get caught it's alright. No one's cheating though, and it's not a 'schoolkid' argument, it's not an exploit and CCP have said as much. Anyone getting 'caught' doing it won't even get a slap on the wrist. You had to try anyway. I know.
The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.
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Remiel Pollard
Against All Odds.
6563
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 16:37:17 -
[54] - Quote
Pok Nibin wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Pok Nibin wrote:I can see some folks growing reliant on such things as these suddenly having to suck air through their a$$hole$ trying to figure out another way to play. That's a thing about cheating. And, when you do it, you know that's what it is, so don't try some schoolkid argument about "no it ain't, nannner nanner."
It's just not a good idea to succumb to the fashionable idea that if you don't get caught it's alright. No one's cheating though, and it's not a 'schoolkid' argument, it's not an exploit and CCP have said as much. Anyone getting 'caught' doing it won't even get a slap on the wrist. You had to try anyway. I know.
It's not trying, it's facts. I'm telling you facts, and the fact is, it's not an exploit. And your reply in typical flat-earther fashion is dismissal a la ignorance. From the article linked:
"This whole process is quite complex but not an exploit of game mechanics."
Most reasonable people would go, "oh look, facts to the contrary of what I believed previously, I should concede that I'm wrong and adapt to this new information." Let's see if you have the maturity to pull that one off instead of reverting to the ironic immaturity of accusing people of being children because they don't play the game in the way you say/think they should.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Eve Solecist
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 16:56:45 -
[55] - Quote
Dunning Kruger, ladies and gentlemen.
Ignorance about Ignorance.
It must be cheating, because I say it's cheating, disregarding the actual definition of cheating.
I'm too tired for this. simple people who should not have a voice.
Serene, at this point I believe that people who deliberate make the stupid come out, are in fact bad and sad people who need something to feel better about. |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1573
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 17:17:47 -
[56] - Quote
Agondray wrote:yeah as one that used to incap pos mods all day in a solo battleship I used to abuse the gun range, and I would pod people in low sec from extreme range, then ccp changed that I guess they finally considered it an exploit to out fire the gun range at gates and pos's. Now the stupid things fire at anything that can be seen. no matter how many sebo's I put on a ship can only target 249.99kms which doesn't even allow me to do a strike and play gridfu if I tried.
EVERYTHING IS A GAME MACHANIC UNTIL CCP DECIDES OTHERWISE Maybe you could take another approach? Shrink grid to make it as close to the target as possible. Then approach, fire, de-approach, leave grid. Could work with slow POS targeting system.
We used grid-fu to catch bot tengu in 0.0 back in 2011. Extended grid to 400km+ and put bubble. Then used login trap. Killed it once. Bot owner fitted next ship with interdiction nullifier subsystem.....
And i have seen the same tengu half a year after in different space/alliance/corp doing the same. CCP bot reporting works wonders!
Eve Solecist wrote:Dunning Kruger, ladies and gentlemen.
Ignorance about Ignorance.
It must be cheating, because I say it's cheating, disregarding the actual definition of cheating.
you forgot to put Kaarous's quote here
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
754
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 18:09:27 -
[57] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Get a good list of the posters to this thread who "don't see a problem here". They are practitioners. They may as well be saying, "The emperor does SO have clothes on! You just can't SEE them."
Anywhere else in the forum it's claimed you can't prove a negative. Right off the bat I'm told to. Uh huh.
I just came down with yesterday's rain. (Quite a few rapid responses for a "Nothing here. Move along.") wow, that sure was a quick "i cannot be bothered to give any evidence for anything i suggest, i'm just going to insult everyone who doesn't agree with me and hope my large well of respect within the eve community carries the day"
sadly the Bank of Serene Repose's Respect has been overdrawn since before it even opened and never once has there even been a deposit |
Commander Spurty
Dimension Door We need wards.
1448
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 18:21:27 -
[58] - Quote
OP: Just because someone documented their findings, doesn't mean "it wasn't used by others". It certainly never started happening the day that document was published!!!
To be clearer, this document just allows you, the causal player to learn how to do things the more 'curious' player already knows (but doesn't publicize).
if CCP hasn't fixed it, it's not considered enough of an issue. I'm still not convinced it's a problem even after all these years
There are good ships
And wood ships
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are
Spaceships
Built by CCP
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Spurty
Dimension Door We need wards.
1448
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 18:21:27 -
[59] - Quote
OP: Just because someone documented their findings, doesn't mean "it wasn't used by others". It certainly never started happening the day that document was published!!!
To be clearer, this document just allows you, the causal player to learn how to do things the more 'curious' player already knows (but doesn't publicize).
if CCP hasn't fixed it, it's not considered enough of an issue. I'm still not convinced it's a problem even after all these years
There are good ships
And wood ships
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are
Spaceships
Built by CCP
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Zura Namee
The Milkmen
16
|
Posted - 2015.03.26 18:36:44 -
[60] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Primary This Rifter wrote:How exactly would you have the server partition grids? Uncharted Waters, an NES game with a map depicting all of Earth, the whole globe, has to break that map into loadable sections (considering how big Earth is). With a game that primitive they didn't seem to require a system that is exploitable, or one that can be reformed and reshaped by the player. Are you saying ten years later in technology (when EVE was born) something about the advancement of technology forced us to revert to something more primitive than an NES game? I think not. Nice try. This methodology was known years before EVE was developed.
Are you seriously implying a singleplayer game with load cells is remotely comparable to what EVE is doing? |
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