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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Zarch AlDain
Friends of Everyone
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:02:00 -
[31]
The suggestions look good, although as the others have said we will have to see how the numbers work out.
On the blackbird I do like the suggestion of changing the cap need to being an ewar strength bonus...that does seem to leave them weaker than they are now though unless the bonus takes their actual jam strength to stronger than currently.
Perhaps one of the low slots could become a mid slot or there could be a lower bonus but an extra mid slot? It already has a lot of mid slots though, so perhaps an extra low slot would be the way forwards?
With an extra low slot people could fit an ECM strength boost in the low slot, or fit extra cap recharge, or even extra tank.
Zarch AlDain
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:02:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Kala Veijo
 Looks like im going to fit cap boosters to BB after this. Still, love it.
BBs are getting -cap and +strength aren't they? So basically, won't be jamming everything at 100km...
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Soraya Silvermoon
Never'where
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:02:00 -
[33]
I can live with it.
Am I a fan of it no. But thats becasue I dont see it as a problem in the first place.
In Wow we have classes and specialized fields. In eve we want to have the option of fitting all kinds of mods.
What is the point of mods in the first place when you`ll allways fit the same and never bother to fit what belongs to other races.
even there is plenty of "possibillities" there is really only one way to fit a ship decently becaseu that way overpower all the other ways.
But my head hurt... seems communitie is happy with it so go for it.
I`m a 03 player anyway so I just hcange to another race of ships wehn I want to do something different :D
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Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:02:00 -
[34]
can we get more exact numbers?
For example will the scorpion still have the same jamming strength, with t2 multispec, as it has now?
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:03:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Zarch AlDain
The suggestions look good, although as the others have said we will have to see how the numbers work out.
On the blackbird I do like the suggestion of changing the cap need to being an ewar strength bonus...that does seem to leave them weaker than they are now though unless the bonus takes their actual jam strength to stronger than currently.
Perhaps one of the low slots could become a mid slot or there could be a lower bonus but an extra mid slot? It already has a lot of mid slots though, so perhaps an extra low slot would be the way forwards?
With an extra low slot people could fit an ECM strength boost in the low slot, or fit extra cap recharge, or even extra tank.
Same jamming str + jamming damage mods IMO would be a boost for blackbirds. OK, you've only 2 lows to play with, but still...
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Hellspawn01
Amarr
The Phantom Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:03:00 -
[36]
Change ECM to what it was 3 years ago. 4 jammers to lock down a ship, not 1 multi/racial jammer to jam a carrier while flying a frig. This would give ECM ships their special touch back.
Ship lovers click here |
Soraya Silvermoon
Never'where
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:06:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Change ECM to what it was 3 years ago. 4 jammers to lock down a ship, not 1 multi/racial jammer to jam a carrier while flying a frig. This would give ECM ships their special touch back.
Agreed.. I stopped using ew n missils back when they changed it and trained minmatar..
But realisticly changing it back wouold require so much work and then u got all the skils ppl have trained. So I think thats something we have to realize is just a drem :P
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Ilmonstre
Minmatar
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:06:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Change ECM to what it was 3 years ago. 4 jammers to lock down a ship, not 1 multi/racial jammer to jam a carrier while flying a frig. This would give ECM ships their special touch back.
this i would also like bring back the 4-5 scrorps in a fleet to be bale to jam enough of the hostiles instead of 2 scorps jamming 8 ships
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:17:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Edited by: Hllaxiu on 23/10/2006 12:48:02
So the ecm strength gang mod is now just as useless as the sensor strength one? Poor Eos... 
True. Tux, I hope that a look at the Information Warfare gang links is on the "todo" list at some point. It's already a lot weaker than the other 3 gang bonus sets, and after this we'd have the weird situation where a Gallente gang link boosts (only) a Caldari EW type...
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Hellspawn01
Amarr
The Phantom Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:19:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon
Originally by: Hellspawn01
Change ECM to what it was 3 years ago. 4 jammers to lock down a ship, not 1 multi/racial jammer to jam a carrier while flying a frig. This would give ECM ships their special touch back.
Agreed.. I stopped using ew n missils back when they changed it and trained minmatar..
But realisticly changing it back wouold require so much work and then u got all the skils ppl have trained. So I think thats something we have to realize is just a drem :P
Skills arent wasted, just change the system. I cant imagine that you can balance the current system when a frig jams a capital ship. Where is the logic behind that? Its like an ant blinding an elephant.
Nos domis could be better countered with the old system, they are overpowered atm Imo. Caldari ships with an ECM bonus wouldnt be overpowered like they are now with tank+gank+jamming. Amarr recons wouldnt be able to be solo killing machines whatever they fight. Ishtars.... should I continue?
Just what I think about ECM.
Ship lovers click here |
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Vargrh
Gallente
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:21:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Vargrh on 23/10/2006 13:24:37
Or, how about going back to the days where it stacked. If someone wants to resist ECM they should put ECCM on. 
If you guys spent half the time trying to find and fix the bugs that cause the horrendous lag spikes, rather then worrying about making subtle changes to module attributes, we'd all be much happier for it.
Once the issues making the game unplayable are resolved, I might be more willing to consider time spent changing module attributes to have been well spent.
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Miklas Laces
A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:24:00 -
[42]
I really like this, good work Tuxford
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Nicholai Pestot
Gallente
Havoc Inc
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:27:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Vargrh
Edited by: Vargrh on 23/10/2006 13:24:37
Or, how about going back to the days where it stacked. If someone wants to resist ECM they should put ECCM on.
If you guys spent half the time trying to find and fix the bugs that cause the horrendous lag spikes, rather then worrying about making subtle changes to module attributes, we'd all be much happier for it.
Once the issues making the game unplayable are resolved, I might be more willing to consider time spent changing module attributes to have been well spent.
Do you honestly believe tuxford has anything to do with code optimistation at all?
Do you honestly believe tuxford is responsible for the physical state of the servers or upgrades to said servers?
Its like moaning at the cleaner that he should stop mopping the floors and help with server stability 
________________
What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete |
Nir
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:27:00 -
[44]
I hope the chance % of jammers on non-EW dedicated ships becomes low enough for people to stop fitting them. On many ships right now like the Dominix, even if you had a 5% or 10% jam chance instead of 30% people would still fit Multispecs.. simply because there is little else to fill those slots with.
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Ather Ialeas
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:28:00 -
[45]
Hmm, looks rather interesting and as a plus this could boost Amarr. Just imagine it, Apoc (or Arma if you're a cheapskate) with highs full of medium guns or NOS, meds filled with ECM, 5-6 ECM boosters in lows and LARII/Damage Control/capmod...what would that turn the Amarr bs into? A Scorpion in disguise?
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Shabesa
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:28:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Alex Harumichi
True. Tux, I hope that a look at the Information Warfare gang links is on the "todo" list at some point. It's already a lot weaker than the other 3 gang bonus sets, and after this we'd have the weird situation where a Gallente gang link boosts (only) a Caldari EW type...
What he said.
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Soraya Silvermoon
Never'where
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:29:00 -
[47]
Hellspawn speaks words of wisdom. Lots of us knew about this when they changed the ecm inthe first place but did we get heard? no.
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Intaran
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:29:00 -
[48]
One sugestion about blackbird, you could make it like the logistics cruiser and it would have a fixed cap reduction. Only the other bonus would change with the skill lvl.
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Nir
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:31:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Hmm, looks rather interesting and as a plus this could boost Amarr. Just imagine it, Apoc (or Arma if you're a cheapskate) with highs full of medium guns or NOS, meds filled with ECM, 5-6 ECM boosters in lows and LARII/Damage Control/capmod...what would that turn the Amarr bs into? A Scorpion in disguise?
I thought the same, until I realized.. you'll probably need 4 co-pro II's to fit any of that.
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Vargrh
Gallente
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:32:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Vargrh on 23/10/2006 13:33:20
Originally by: Nicholai Pestot
Originally by: Vargrh
Edited by: Vargrh on 23/10/2006 13:24:37
Or, how about going back to the days where it stacked. If someone wants to resist ECM they should put ECCM on.
If you guys spent half the time trying to find and fix the bugs that cause the horrendous lag spikes, rather then worrying about making subtle changes to module attributes, we'd all be much happier for it.
Once the issues making the game unplayable are resolved, I might be more willing to consider time spent changing module attributes to have been well spent.
Do you honestly believe tuxford has anything to do with code optimistation at all?
Do you honestly believe tuxford is responsible for the physical state of the servers or upgrades to said servers?
Its like moaning at the cleaner that he should stop mopping the floors and help with server stability
If a company hired dozens of cleaners and next to no server support and I came in every day to a sparkling clean office, but the corporate network was always down or suffered horrendous lag spikes, I would comment for sure about the fact there were too many cleaners and not enough server admin. CCP seem intent on adding content update at the expense of stability (my opinion).
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
The Nest
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:33:00 -
[51]
Looks good Tux. Let us test it ASAP.
Team Minmatar
Carriers need Clone Vats
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Kunming
Amarr
adeptus gattacus
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:37:00 -
[52]
ECM will still be pwnage but only on Caldari ships. What about Minmatar's (non-existant) EW abilities, Amarr's useless (against missiles) tracking disruptors?
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Vasiliyan
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:37:00 -
[53]
Looks good
I'll second the "please please look at information warfare gang effects" request though.
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dalman
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:42:00 -
[54]
Good to see that they've at least understood the problem after my continous spamming:
That 1 slot used has 1/3 chance to deactivate 10 slots on the hostile - ie, ECM is very very overpowered.
Really waiting for some numbers:
* ECM must have at most 50% of the strength it has today
* EW ships (rook, scorp, falcon, blackbird etc) must not have higher strength than they have today (when looking at skill with level 5).
If these 2 holds true when we get numbers, I'm happy.
Am I forced to have any regret?
I've become the lie, beautiful and free
In my righteous own mind
I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:46:00 -
[55]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 23/10/2006 13:48:42
The sensible choice on the nos domi would be remote sensor damps. That way you get them to choose - run away, or close to nos range. Or on one of the other ships, you force them to move in close to fight, which is where Gallente excel.
ECMs will be good on the ships that they always were, and this is fine - the problem was ECMs on every frigate, every cruiser, and every battleship.
Tracking disruptors and remote sensor dampeners are actually better choices - they're more reliable. They just take a bit more effort to use effectively.
And if you do get an apoc with 4 'jamming strength boosts' and some ECMs, well, so what? That's fine by me. It won't be you losing a fight to someone randomly stuffing an ECM in a spare mid, it'll be someone who thought about their options, and actively created a somewhat off the wall setup. Much like the nos domi was once upon a time.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:46:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Kunming
ECM will still be pwnage but only on Caldari ships.
Only on a few EW-oriented Caldari ships, which lack pretty much any other defense other than that ECM.
Originally by: Kunming
What about Minmatar's (non-existant) EW abilities
Oh, you mean those totally useless 40km webbers and boosted target painters. Sure, nobody uses those....
Originally by: Kunming
Amarr's useless (against missiles) tracking disruptors?
Useless against missiles, but deadly (and 100% effective) against turret ships. I don't know who you fly against, but I tend to see a lot more turret boats than missile boats in pvp. Even one tracking disruptor is bad news to a turret user.
Originally by: Kunming
Edit: Oh and not to forget about gallente, who are supposed to be short-range fighters, who got long-range EW.
Well, true to a point. Otoh, damps can also be used to avoid enemy lock while you're closing in for the kill -- sure, they usually aren't used that way, but I can see some synergy with close-range, also.
In any case, damps are fine imho. They are effective but are sitational.
If ECM chance is severely reduced for non-ECM ships, I think things will be fine. Depends on the numbers of course.
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Nicholai Pestot
Gallente
Havoc Inc
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:49:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Nicholai Pestot on 23/10/2006 13:50:29
Originally by: Vargrh
Edited by: Vargrh on 23/10/2006 13:33:20
Originally by: Nicholai Pestot
Originally by: Vargrh
Edited by: Vargrh on 23/10/2006 13:24:37
Or, how about going back to the days where it stacked. If someone wants to resist ECM they should put ECCM on.
If you guys spent half the time trying to find and fix the bugs that cause the horrendous lag spikes, rather then worrying about making subtle changes to module attributes, we'd all be much happier for it.
Once the issues making the game unplayable are resolved, I might be more willing to consider time spent changing module attributes to have been well spent.
Do you honestly believe tuxford has anything to do with code optimistation at all?
Do you honestly believe tuxford is responsible for the physical state of the servers or upgrades to said servers?
Its like moaning at the cleaner that he should stop mopping the floors and help with server stability
If a company hired dozens of cleaners and next to no server support and I came in every day to a sparkling clean office, but the corporate network was always down or suffered horrendous lag spikes, I would comment for sure about the fact there were too many cleaners and not enough server admin. CCP seem intent on adding content update at the expense of stability (my opinion).
So they should fire their content department because their codemonkeys are having problems?
Or should the content department sit on their hands and do nothing until the server is 100% working and bug free?
Im sure that will help speed up resolving the problems
________________
What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete |
Syrin
SouthStar Business Solutions Inc.
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:49:00 -
[58]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Ishana
Meh... I'm not very anthousiastic about these changes...
It's a start I guess, but I was hoping for something better tbh.
It sounds to me that ecm gets nerfed across the board (good thing) EXCEPT for caldari.
Jup that's it i'm training for them.... (/me throws away 15mil of minnie skillpoints)
When was the last time you saw a scorp in anything other than large fleet?
For that matter, I don't see many BBs in PvP either, although they're a little more common.
The ECM specialised ships aren't commonly used, because they trade off having no tank, and no firepower for being EWar ships. And ... well frankly, a raven or a dominix is a better choice for 'small gang/solo' pvp for fitting ECMs too.
So yes, the devil will be in the details, but I like this move.
Says the man who flies one in all our small gangs  Maybe this will stop those crazy ECM exequrors
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Garia666
Amarr
adeptus gattacus
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.23 13:51:00 -
[59]
well if a BS can get jammed just by one single frigate i think thats not good.
The basic jamming defence should looked at
tech II ships and BS should have better radar, ladar, ect, ect.
And how does the stacking work on all modules or just one?
let say you have 3 low ECM strength modules and in med 4 ECM muli spec.
Than you will have 4 ECM modules with the power of 3 stacking .. that way The ECM will be far more overpowered ..
or will you only be able to use 1 single ECM in ur med slot? like the ab and mw ?
then those ships will have more med slot availlable..
Cant we just ban ECM to ECM ships only and let them have there roles but not on standard ships? Since ECM warfare isnt a fun way of PvP anyway.
->My Vids<- |
LoKesh
Amarr
InQuest Ascension
Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2006.10.23 14:08:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Ather Ialeas
Hmm, looks rather interesting and as a plus this could boost Amarr. Just imagine it, Apoc (or Arma if you're a cheapskate) with highs full of medium guns or NOS, meds filled with ECM, 5-6 ECM boosters in lows and LARII/Damage Control/capmod...what would that turn the Amarr bs into? A Scorpion in disguise?
This a very valid point. I like the proposed changes, I think they'll address some of the problems people have without destroying a whole part of the game (Well done!)
However, will the strength of 1 or 2 of the new low-slot ECM boost modules be equal to the ship bonus? The EW ships are already lacking in low slots compared to other ships in the same size class. Yes, I realize that the other ships don't have as many mid slots - but it seems like you might be inviting a world where an Apoc could fit EW, 3 EW mods and still have a tank.
I guess what I'd really like to see is some proposed numbers, before I worry about the above.
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