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Radioactive Babe
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Posted - 2006.10.24 14:26:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Radioactive Babe on 24/10/2006 14:26:48
 Originally by: ValanEDIT
The reason they're bad for EVE is that battles are won through attrition in EVE. If you can replace everything you lose in an instant then you're unbeatable. Hence its cheating, its esentially god mode.
This is the nasty side of GTC's really, an alliance can send in hac after hac after hac and even though they may be losing far more than their foe, if he has loads of isk he will win. Where the isk came from is also at question, new players should not be able to hold more than 1 mil in their wallets or be able to send more than 5 eve-mails a day (just to stop those annoying evemails)
Any player that has more than 10 of any particular gist mod in their hangar should have them taken by CCP as well ... you know they were gotten by farming plexes (gist mods are VERY easiy converted to large amounts of isk - similar to GTC's)
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Rina Shanu
Phoenix Knights
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Posted - 2006.10.24 14:41:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Radioactive Babe
Edited by: Radioactive Babe on 24/10/2006 14:26:48
Originally by: ValanEDIT
The reason they're bad for EVE is that battles are won through attrition in EVE. If you can replace everything you lose in an instant then you're unbeatable. Hence its cheating, its esentially god mode.
This is the nasty side of GTC's really, an alliance can send in hac after hac after hac and even though they may be losing far more than their foe, if he has loads of isk he will win. Where the isk came from is also at question, new players should not be able to hold more than 1 mil in their wallets or be able to send more than 5 eve-mails a day (just to stop those annoying evemails)
Any player that has more than 10 of any particular gist mod in their hangar should have them taken by CCP as well ... you know they were gotten by farming plexes (gist mods are VERY easiy converted to large amounts of isk - similar to GTC's)
your pushing this in the wrong direction. I have to disagree with you. taking in game freedom from newer players just because they are new is not good. and I seem to miss a good enough reason for it.
Image removed, not appropriate for this site. -Suvetar
then make me a sig Suvetar
what has 4 legs and 1 arm? a happy pitbull |
Rick Dentill
Lynx Frontier Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.24 14:56:00 -
[63]
I have had lots of abortive attempts with thoughts on this post and I have come to this conclusion.
The game mechanics put everyone on a level footing and then its our abilities, intelligence guile, interpersonal skills etc that allow us to advance ourselves. Isk sales (GTC or otherwise) circumvent these mechanics so it is not an exploit in the typical sense of the word, but it certainly is one in the spirit of the rules governing them.
My concern is not really over the economy of EVE but simply that if I or anyone can buy stuff then they are breaking the balance. Success or failure is based and should only be based on your ability to play the game, not on factors such as more money. EVE is also about earning your way in game not out of it.
EVE is not about fairness, but the rules that govern it are meant to be fair. It is an initially a level playing field from which only the path we take and our innate abilities that put us ahead (sorry I said that before) or should be. Why do you think logon traps annoy people, and the mud hurling over bookmarks in holds and node crashes and all the other accusations that fly around? All these thing are attempts to use out of game factors to circumvent the mechanics. If someone can buy their way through the game, aside from being lame, they are also spitting on the central theme, it is not their in game actions that put them ahead, itÆs the size of their wallet, pay check or daddyÆs credit card.
GTC is accepted by CCP. The cynical view being because they still get paid for it. The more open minded view being that it allows people without a means to pay to still play. Either way they are here to stay. but taking the latter reason the purpose of GTC sales was to help the buyers not sellers.
_______
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Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.10.24 15:06:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Death Kill on 24/10/2006 15:06:39
Originally by: Rick Dentill
GTC is accepted by CCP. The cynical view being because they still get paid for it. The more open minded view being that it allows people without a means to pay to still play.
I've given this some though. Considering that the average EVE player is (IIRC) 27 years old thats not really a valid argument. If you are over the age of 18 and not living on the moon it shouldnt be hard to aquire a bankcard that allows online transactions at all.
Good/bad echonomy has nothing to do with it, as VISA issues cards that dont give credit yet allows you to buy stuff online.
N=R* x fp x ne x fl x Fi x fc x L |
Jean LaForge
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Posted - 2006.10.24 15:40:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Jean LaForge on 24/10/2006 15:41:48
I'm curious, to those who are against the casual player buying a few GTC's in order to make ISK (not talking about hundreds at a time), what is your opinion of those people who run multiple accounts?
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Rina Shanu
Phoenix Knights
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Posted - 2006.10.24 16:34:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Jean LaForge
Edited by: Jean LaForge on 24/10/2006 15:41:48
I'm curious, to those who are against the casual player buying a few GTC's in order to make ISK (not talking about hundreds at a time), what is your opinion of those people who run multiple accounts?
Multiple accounts.
I'm for the 2-3 GTCs a months...
Multiple accounts have nothing to do with this. Let me explain: in order to run multiple accounts taht person has to dedicate a certain ammount of time to each account. If taht person has that time or is willing to put in that time effort, than it's all fine by me.
Having multiple accounts does not bring anything without an effort. This effort is in game.
I can see the similarity, as a person with 5 accounts uses 4 of them to make the 5th rich in ISK and assets and thus makes from the 5th a very enjoyable experience.
So this person is investing real life money to make that 5th account cool and fun and all.
Yes, but THERE IS MORE TO IT. It is ok because that person has to play those 5 accounts, so that person works a lot to make that 5th account great or whatever...
See my point I hope.
Image removed, not appropriate for this site. -Suvetar
then make me a sig Suvetar
what has 4 legs and 1 arm? a happy pitbull |
Valan
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Posted - 2006.10.24 17:04:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Death Kill
I've given this some though. Considering that the average EVE player is (IIRC) 27 years old thats not really a valid argument.
I doubt that applies anymore. In fact I'm sure it doesn't. My money would be an average of 17 now.
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
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Tundaar
Minmatar
Eve Defence Force
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.24 17:09:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Death Kill
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
The new rabble, people buying in game advantages with real life time. They sit play for hours and hours and hours each day essentially overwhleming other players not by being better but by simply giving up everything else in life to sit at a keyboard. It offers far greater than rewards than even money can buy
Complete and utter rubbish. You can buy your way to 100 billion isk faster than you can farm or whatever.
Hmm look at the math for that - to buy 100 Billion ISK without breaking the EULA would take: (figures rounded for easy calc).
(Assume 90 day GTC costs $40 and buys 400 million ISK therefore $10 = 100 Million ISK)
100 million x 1000 = 100 billion
so:
$10 x 1000 = $10,000 (or 100 Billion)  If someone wants to spend $10K on a game within the EULA and is giving the money to CCP I say let them.
On a slightly more personal note recent RL developments have severely dented my ability to spend a lot of time in game. Just because I now have a young family and work out of town most days without aa PC does it mean that I should take my main and spend every second online (approx 3 hours per week now) Mining or mission running to afford new ships/skills? (which I then wouldn't be able to have time to use)
No instead I chose to occasionaly sell some GTC so that I can actually enjoy the time I have in game without some fo the Grind (which I would haappily do if I had the time).
Also look at it from the POV of those who have very little in the way of cash reserve. I know that a number of people I have spoken to would not be able to afford to keep playing if they could not buy GTC with ISK. Killing off this processs would mean that they would be forced out of the game (or forced into breaking the EULA by selling ISK to buy subscription) just because they don't earn much in real life. Again a little unfair.
Selling GTC is not an ideal situation but it is better than the alternatives, It keeps the buyer in the game, It allows the seller to have ISK and it adds to CCPs income so they can afford to develop new things in the game. win/win/win as the ISK spent actually feeds the game (unlike ebaying)
It's only the grind mechanic and time/experence which gets broken and that I can live with
(ie: I'm a lousy PvP'er as I don't have time to practice  but I can afford to get new ships occasionally  - again feeding the economy  )
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Valan
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Posted - 2006.10.24 17:50:00 -
[69]
People like yourself aren't the problem.
Its the ones that launder isk by selling GTCs out of game. Its also those taking it to the extreme. Why should a group of players be able to sell GTCs to hold multiple constellations in 0.0? They can't be beaten as they just buy their ships with RL cash.
A registration system can help those who need to play, others can earn a little isk while curtailing the abuse of the system. 9 times out of 10 constant abuse results in the removal of a system. Control it and manage it and I reckon it'll be supported across the player base, ensuring the system will stay around for ever for those that need it.
Lets face it CCP could always wait until you're all hooked then remove the GTCs knowing full well you'll find a way to pay. Why give up all that hard work?
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
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Riley Craven
Caldari
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.10.24 17:57:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Death Kill
Edited by: Death Kill on 23/10/2006 16:20:49
So, it seams we have a new issue (finally) hitting the agenda.
People paying rl money for getting ISK, as a person that has been playing games for more than 20 year and online games since 1999 I look at selling GTC for isk as BLATANT CHEATING.
It can possibly break the game, because the game is based on certain principles such as risk vs reward/investment/time vs reward.
Selling gtc undermines this.
CCP, hear our plea! Yes GTC buys you more Ferraris but seriously its starting to hurt the community you claim to love.
God knows how the alliance map would look like if there were no gtc.
Frankly, I dont agree with you. Even if people were buying carrier accounts and what not. I see this as having virtually no impact on the way I play my game. Which seems to be the real problem for this complaint. (i.e. people "cheating" affecting the way you play)
Why should you care if it doesnt affect you?
People get squimish over the stupidest things. Its just a game afterall.
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Valan
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Posted - 2006.10.24 18:04:00 -
[71]
It does affect you if the enemy keeps whipping out a new ship every ten minutes. Kinda prevents you from taking down their POS doesn't it?
Its an mmorpg what you do affects everyone else in the game.
I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on.
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Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.10.24 18:27:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Death Kill on 24/10/2006 18:27:10
Originally by: Riley Craven
Why should you care if it doesnt affect you?
Why would anyone care aboyut anything as long as it doesnt affect them?
See?
Quote:
People get squimish over the stupidest things. Its just a game afterall.
Wrong! EVE isnt a game, its a hobby.
N=R* x fp x ne x fl x Fi x fc x L |
Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.10.24 18:33:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Death Kill on 24/10/2006 18:33:41
Originally by: Tundaar
Hmm look at the math for that
No, 100 billion was a number I randomly choosed.
Quote:
On a slightly more personal note recent RL developments have severely dented my ability to spend a lot of time in game. Just because I now have a young family and work out of town most days without aa PC does it mean that I should take my main and spend every second online (approx 3 hours per week now) Mining or mission running to afford new ships/skills? (which I then wouldn't be able to have time to use)
So basically what you are saying is that your situasion is supposed to affect those that do have the time for EVE and the way it was ment to be?
Quote:
No instead I chose to occasionaly sell some GTC so that I can actually enjoy the time I have in game without some fo the Grind (which I would haappily do if I had the time).
Ahhh but you want it both ways, pitty people like you are ruining the value of hard work.
Quote:
I know that a number of people I have spoken to would not be able to afford to keep playing if they could not buy GTC with ISK.
Yet they magically manage to pay their internet bill?
Rubbish!
Quote:
Killing off this processs would mean that they would be forced out of the game (or forced into breaking the EULA by selling ISK to buy subscription) just because they don't earn much in real life. Again a little unfair.
I'm a student. I AM POOR, yet I'm able to afford EVE. If you cant afford EVE without breaking the game then you should spend money on food instead of computer games.
Quote:
Selling GTC is not an ideal situation but it is better than the alternatives, It keeps the buyer in the game, It allows the seller to have ISK and it adds to CCPs income so they can afford to develop new things in the game. win/win/win as the ISK spent actually feeds the game (unlike ebaying)
CCP has enough money, and they have too many subscribers for the servers to be able to handle them. If 5000 people left it would only benefit the rest.
Quote:
It's only the grind mechanic and time/experence which gets broken and that I can live with
Its 'only the gring mechanic'?
Thats 50% of the game. It breaks the game!
N=R* x fp x ne x fl x Fi x fc x L |
Polinus
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Posted - 2006.10.24 18:34:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Death Kill
Originally by: Polinus
My god.. you don't get it? It does not matter if Eve is for me. It matter if there are enough people of the other type to keep CCp working all by themselves?
Yes my dear Polinus I do get it. EVE is a compeditive game, and you want people who can only play a few hours a week compete with people who play everyday.
Quote:
EVE already does not have a hugea array of subscribers, and cutting out 90% of world population won't help CCP.
For a single sharded game EVE hs alot of subscribers, I would take single sharded 'only 100k subscribers' over sharded world of warcrap '10 billion subscribers' anyday!
You want a game that you can play a few hours a week, world of warcraft is such a game.
again!! You cant get the point. I am not talking on a player pointof view. Think ona CCP point of view!!
With 50 k players paying about 14 $ per month.. do you realy think CCP has a large income? They cannot spare to throw away any costumer.
On company point on view, Blizzard is zillion times more sucessfull than CCP, in fact is by far the most successfull game company around the world. Since with a single title it get more than 1 Billion dollars per year!
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Taedrin
Gallente
Mercatoris Technologies
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Posted - 2006.10.24 18:41:00 -
[75]
IMO, CCP's handling of ISK sellers has been very good. They can control the price of ISK by controlling the price of GTC's. Plus, it enables them to take action against those who try to directly sell ISK for money. Much better than doing (relatively) nothing, like SOE/Blizzard did with EQ/WoW, respectively.
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Death Kill
Caldari
direkte
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Posted - 2006.10.24 19:00:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Polinus
On company point on view, Blizzard is zillion times more sucessfull than CCP, in fact is by far the most successfull game company around the world. Since with a single title it get more than 1 Billion dollars per year!
CCP doesnt spend a trillion Euro's in marketing. CCP is a small company with fewer employees and yet they are able to provide us with a superior product.
Seriously, dont compare CCP with Blizzard.
N=R* x fp x ne x fl x Fi x fc x L |
Tundaar
Minmatar
Eve Defence Force
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.24 19:44:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Tundaar on 24/10/2006 19:45:47
Originally by: Death Kill
No, 100 billion was a number I randomly choosed.
Same proportion applies all down the line - you chose the number - not me. Is it broken if someone spends 100 bucks and gets 1 billion ISK? - possibly - but given the speed that ships get destroyed in Eve that seem like a damn quick way to empty your wallet to me.
Originally by: Death Kill
So basically what you are saying is that your situasion is supposed to affect those that do have the time for EVE and the way it was ment to be?
No - simply using an example - everyone plays Eve differently - it is one of the great things about the game. Why should I be penalised because my circumstances change? - I pay the same amount to play as someone who plays for 15 hours a day; I am also prepared to pay a little more to make up for that lack of time. There are many playing styles, many RL circumstances and everyone has the same rights in the game. CCP has to an extent levelled the playing field a little with their stance. I
In most games the issue is Farmers using in game money to buy REAL money, you have an issue with the opposite in Eve using Real money to buy In game money
Originally by: Death Kill
Ahhh but you want it both ways, pitty people like you are ruining the value of hard work.
Actually I'm often working 16 hour days 6 days a week - Eve is my relaxation, not my job. I don't want it both ways - I'm happy with the GTC situation that CCP has sanctioned as it enables me to treat Eve as a game that I can participat ein to the level that I enjoy. When circumstances allowed I did spend 100's of hours online building up assets and training and killing 'roids - I've done that, I can't put that time in any more but still want to play the game - within the rules.
Originally by: Death Kill
Yet they magically manage to pay their internet bill?
Rubbish!
Hmm - by the same logic because I can afford a bus ticket I should be able to buy a train? . . . some people have limited funds and have to chose how they allocate them. Don't generalise.
Originally by: Death Kill
I'm a student. I AM POOR, yet I'm able to afford EVE. If you cant afford EVE without breaking the game then you should spend money on food instead of computer games.
So you want to ban a whole bunch of people just becauise they have a different opinion on what breaking game play is? - let's let CCP be the judge of that shall we? People can always vote on what they think a "Broken Game" is by not playing.
Originally by: Death Kill
CCP has enough money, and they have too many subscribers for the servers to be able to handle them. If 5000 people left it would only benefit the rest.
A very simplistic view - for the hardware and dev time going into this game CCP is doing OK, but they haddly have "enough" money. To suggest that them losing almost a million dollars in revenue (5,000 players leaving) is a GOOD thing for the game is sadly shortsighted. CCP is a BUSINESS - if they don't make money - they so out of that business, the better their revenue stream is the more likely that we will get to keep playing this game for a long time yet. <More subscribers (and more GTC sales) is good for CCP and therefore good for Eve.
Originally by: Death Kill
Its 'only the gring mechanic'?
Thats 50% of the game. It breaks the game!
People only really have Money and Time to spend. Participation in Eve is dictated by the amount of each of those which a person is willing, or able, to spend. In my case I don't have time and am willing to spend (some) money, in other cases people don't have money and are willing to spend time (represented by ISK).
It keeps the economy moving.
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Caliwyrm O'Libr
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Posted - 2006.10.24 19:56:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Rick Dentill
I have had lots of abortive attempts with thoughts on this post and I have come to this conclusion.
The game mechanics put everyone on a level footing and then its our abilities, intelligence guile, interpersonal skills etc that allow us to advance ourselves. Isk sales (GTC or otherwise) circumvent these mechanics so it is not an exploit in the typical sense of the word, but it certainly is one in the spirit of the rules governing them.
Why does GTC sales circumvent any game mechanics? Does 1 alliance have a monopoly on GTC sales?
From my understanding the alliance with the Titan isn't the one people are talking about here with all the recent "OMGZOR AN ALLIANCE IS SELING GTCz TO FUND THEMSELFES~!!~!oneELEVENTYBILLION!@"
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RealLiveGirl
Gallente
University of Caille
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:05:00 -
[79]
How is this any different than buying 20 accounts, farming them for 6 months, and then selling them for 500M-1B isk apiece?
Answer: it isn't.
Real money can and will always produce advantages in a virtual world. Not coincidentally, just like the real world! Richer people get advantages in every way over poor people when it comes to time and labor invested, because they can pay others to do spend time on things they don't want to spend time on, and labor on things they don't want to labor on. You can either stick your head in the sand and let ebay devour Eve, or you can be proactive like CCP and at least try to regulate it a bit with GTCs.
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Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:47:00 -
[80]
Uh oh guys, people are buying their ISK via unassailable GTCs. This is much worse than when they used farm missions with alts unknown to us, in unassailable empire farming an undeniable ressource.
Sure is ruining the game little buddy.
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Tarkan Kador
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.10.25 02:26:00 -
[81]
The reason the GTC for ISK thing is problematic, is that sooner or later, someone is going to get screwed out of a lot of time, money, or ISK.
The thing about game time cards is that they are like a loan to CCP, or a promisary note to CCP. Middlemen, retailers, distributors, and ISK aside, the two ends of the exchange involve CCP, who gets real revenue now, and in exchange, it promises service in the future.
There is no theoretical limit as to how many GTCs can enter the economy, as CCP can print them off at their leisure. However, there are two limits to how many GTCs can ever be consumed.
Players can only consume GTCs at a fixed rate of one GTC/per account/per term. The other GTCs can get stockpiled, so that when one runs out, players can activate another one. Theoretically, if someone buys 100, fifty-day GTCs, they can play almost 14 account/years without having to pay CCP anything.
That is assuming, of course, that EVE lasts for 14 years. It may not, despite the best intentions of CCP. So the GTC is only good for a fixed period between today, and somewhere in the future, unknown to anyone. Whatever GTCs survive past that point are worthless, as the GTC's value is contingent on the availability of the service.
Now the real crux of the problem with using GTCs to facilitate ISK sales, is that for every GTC CCP sells, CCP is obligated to provide service at some future date, for some patron, for free.
Since ISK is being constantly created, GTCs are constantly being supplied, and GTCs are constantly being exchanged for ISK, there will eventually come a point where there will be more GTCs than the population of Tranquility could ever possibly use, the ISK value will drop to a point where it is not a good return for the seller, and people will start cancelling subscriptions, in favor of using prepaid card time instead.
The problem with prepaid card time is that CCP is no longer getting new revenue. It is honoring revenue that has most likely already been spent. It is good in that it allows CCP to build up revenue like a bond, of sorts, and as long as there is enough new money coming in, it is manageable.
However, if there is too much prepaid time already out there, and it is easily acquired, then CCP could be faced with thousands of subscribers with more prepaid vouchers than they could ever possibly honor, and the game will suffer financial collapse, thereby making those GTCs worthless.
That is the real danger with GTCs as a medium for ISK transactions. It is borrowing from Peter to pay Paul, and it is a ticking time bomb waiting to go off, destroying the viability of keeping the game open.
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Hitomi Ayame
Royal Knights of Khanid
Order of the Khanid Crown
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Posted - 2006.10.25 03:46:00 -
[82]
Irrespective of any post made here, I think it's prudent to briefly point out that:
trading GTCs for ISK and vice versa via the buy/sell forums is not cheating.
Why not? We play a game. That game has rules. CCP makes the rules. Anything that breaks those rules is cheating. Anything that is allowed within those rules is not cheating. CCP has made the decision to allow GTC/ISK exchange; it is perfectly within the boundaries of the rules as established by CCP. Regardless of how you feel about the principles at work, you cannot claim that GTC/ISK exchange is cheating because it simply is not.
Now the direct exchange of ISK for cash is cheating, because CCP has said it is against the rules.
To use a card game analogy that was previously used, in certain games of poker, "buying a hand", where in you bid more than your opponent can possibly match and thus force them to fold, is perfectly acceptable because it is within the established rules of the game. If you're at a card table and don't want to play that way, you can do three things:
a) tolerate it and continue playing
b) get up and leave the table
c) suggest to the host or dealer that they change the rules or use a different set
You do not accuse the players of cheating.
- - -
Hitomi Ayame,
Lady Marshal,
Royal Knights of Khanid
The Royal Knights of Khanid are now recruiting! |
QwaarJet
Gallente
Rage of Angels
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.10.25 06:03:00 -
[83]
Edited by: QwaarJet on 25/10/2006 06:03:37
Quote:
CCP, hear our plea! Yes GTC buys you more Ferraris but seriously its starting to hurt the community you claim to love.
Oh my god, stop whining about game time cards. For a start, you would struggle to get the community behind you. Most either favour GTC's or have nothing against them. Your plea will fall on deaf ears, and I can't say that's a bad thing.
"Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimter Of Wisdom.Run!" |
Kal Shakai
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Posted - 2006.10.25 06:24:00 -
[84]
I'm curious as to if a GTC saturation level could be reached causing a natural cap to this phenomenon. When do enough GTC's exist that everyone who wants/uses them has enough to play as long as they want or the sales slow down due to lack of demand. In the end this could be seen as brilliant by CCP to curbing the so-called "cheating" or maybe they make tons of front-loaded cash off the craze by pre-selling services via GTC. Just some theories. |
Victor Valka
Caldari
Terra Incognita
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Posted - 2006.10.25 06:35:00 -
[85]
I somehow fail to see the problem.
No ISK is magically created. It simply changes hands. Same thing that happens when you sell that spicy veldspar.
WTF is the problem? 
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Xs 142
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Posted - 2006.10.25 06:36:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Xs 142 on 25/10/2006 06:39:11
Let me put it like this:
Do you know how long it took us to mine together the ISK to buy GTC's for the entire mining up?
Three hours....
Those that are in 0.0 space can do it without any actual problems as ore isn't very hard to come by..
Not much risk vs reward as it is so how does it make a difference?
I'll tell you how it makes a difference, it keeps people like me from quitting.
A few hours a month in the hauler, protected by the alliance, makes me all the ISK I need for my other, more dreadful activity.
No risk v reward in this case, the carebear me hauls and the other me kills..
However I only do it because I can actually play to pay.
The play to pay system is the best thing that has happened since the toaster and since you actually have a problem with it, obviously it plays a big role in the subscriber amount.
Stop yer yappin' and get some numbers together, mining the amount the GTC sells for isn't very hard if you're already in a major alliance so there's no real difference apart from the fact that alot of us can actually play...
*May I remind you that the players are the sellers and the buyers
Edit: To sum this one up: CCP hear our plea!
Don't listen to ANY numbnut who doesn't know enough to have an opinion..
Originally by: Oveur
Eternally yours,
The other dumbass 
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Ashley Stellia
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Posted - 2006.10.25 07:02:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Victor Valka
I somehow fail to see the problem.
No ISK is magically created. It simply changes hands. Same thing that happens when you sell that spicy veldspar.
WTF is the problem?
No isk is magically created when someone buys it on ebay either. But we all know that is a big problem.
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Xs 142
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Posted - 2006.10.25 07:13:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Ashley Stellia
No isk is magically created when someone buys it on ebay either. But we all know that is a big problem.
With that said;
CCP can either try to fight against ISK sellers/buyers, which is a lost war
Or they could turn the situation into profit...
This way atleast CCP are the ones getting the bucks
Originally by: Oveur
Eternally yours,
The other dumbass
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Xyn Rhais
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Posted - 2006.10.25 10:05:00 -
[89]
As someone mentioned, using multiple accounts, and GTC/ISK trading are essentially the EXACT SAME PROBLEM.
They are both not cheats since they are allowed by the devs.
They both give a (fairly large) ingame advantage to the person who is willing/can afford to pay more in real life.
Don't give me "you have to invest time in the second account", you just need to log in a couple of minutes once in a blue moon to change a skill trainining, and do that up to the point where your character becomes useful. Then you can have a disposable scout ahead of you, a hauler for your mining, defense when you need it, so on. The fact that you can't train your alts on the same account at the same time, is designed specifically to give an ingame advantage to people who are willing to pay more.
Why is this ? Because CCP is a buisness, it's a comercial service. I find that the fact that they are willing to manage RMT, while making some profits, is a realistic solution. What they are doing is put a check on it and making sure the trading does not become a buisness. RMT is not necessarly evil in itself, i think i read on a dev blog somewher that they thought it's "interesting". It's when it turns into a buisness that only cares about profit and will abuse the economy and exploit to obtain that, then it starts to hurt the game.
There are plenty of people gaining unfair/unworked for advantages in the game every day. For some people it's a playstyle, stop acting like you've all mined veldspar for 16 hours/day for the last 3 years.
Putting my tin-foil hat on, are you guys who are so vocal about this benefiting fromt he macro-miners and gold-farmers ? E-bay sellers ? Because those are the guys who will benefit the most if GTC sales would be stoped.
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Michela
Bosun Shipyards
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Posted - 2006.10.25 10:33:00 -
[90]
Wow, talk about a lot of people wanting to control how others play.
To those who complain that those based in 0.0 can easily mine or rat and get GTCs "easily", you are clueless. Yes, clueless. To get to the "I can easily rat/mine in 0.0" means that you have to be part of an alliance that has done a LOT OF WORK to make that part of space safe.
Oh, how about the "get a credit card" folks. If CCP allows it, why should they? If they can follow the rules and make enough ISK to purchase GTCs to play ... why not?
I've seen thsee arguments in every game I've played since UO ... there's a lot of bitterness and jealousy thrown out.
If your enemy is pulling out a lot of ships ... get your team together and try to counter it.
And, remember ... even when everyone plays by the rules, life isn't fair. Don't like it? Too bad ... we're all stuck with it.
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