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Zhull
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Posted - 2006.10.24 19:28:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Zhull on 24/10/2006 19:31:41
 Originally by: Hyperion instruction Manual
"WARNING
Do not use in close range combat. May explode if exposed to blaster fire"
I still think that it needs more firepower than the Mega.
The Megatrhon can fit bigger guns or NOS and has Drones that will hit you at 60km.
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Ihar Enda
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.24 19:44:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Ihar Enda on 24/10/2006 19:45:18
Why not just make the Hyperion a sniper ship instead (or a EW ship as was suggested)? It already has more turret slots than the Mega, and Megathron on the other hand does clearly more close range damage (can deploy more drones, fit better guns etc).
Make the Hyperion a sniper boat, and leave Mega alone (I already saw a suggestion to change Mega into a long range ship, which would be really *bad* and would probably leave us with two sub-par ships).
Not to mention Mega's more aggresive looks which really fit a close range ship, much better than the way Hyperion looks (from what I've seen at least).
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Grinkur
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Posted - 2006.10.24 19:50:00 -
[63]
I think they already did, not on purpose, of course.
Looking at the ammo thread i noticed that they nerfed skpike. It now gives you 80% range bonus instead of 100%.
So new optimal for 425mm railgun II with spike and 3 tracking mods is 182km (+30km faloff)Locking Range of the Hyperion with 3 sensor booster II 204km
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Ihar Enda
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.24 19:59:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Ihar Enda on 24/10/2006 20:00:33
Edited by: Ihar Enda on 24/10/2006 20:00:06
They sit down to make a blaster boat and behold, out comes a sniper ship... nice.. 
Just change the rep bonus to range bonus and be done with it. Fitting-wise it seems ok as you don't need a tank for long range. Also, increase the lock range of course.
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Gabriel Karade
Office linebackers
Blood of the Innocents
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Posted - 2006.10.24 19:59:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Nebuli
Edited by: Nebuli on 24/10/2006 18:06:36
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Zhull
Edited by: Zhull on 24/10/2006 17:50:29
I made some numbers using Naughty boy's spreadsheet and it is outdamaged by the Megatrhon at any range with similar setups.
Sounds pretty balanced, since it has the speed advantage instead.
Cant see how, blasterthron with neutrons and null can hit to 20k pretty nicely, so where the blasterthron wont even need to move to hit its target, the hypes going to have to move to use its crap ranged electrons.
In a way I'm kinda happy the Hype sucks as a blaster boat, means I dont have to fly the ugly thing and stick with my beautifull looking mega :)
I'm thinking likewise... 
....however, I have a Blaster Dominix as part of my Arsenal (for variety), so there is already a place (and a name) ready and waiting for a Hyperion.
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- Office Linebacker -
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Izo Azlion
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:02:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Ihar Enda
Edited by: Ihar Enda on 24/10/2006 19:45:18
Why not just make the Hyperion a sniper ship instead (or a EW ship as was suggested)? It already has more turret slots than the Mega, and Megathron on the other hand does clearly more close range damage (can deploy more drones, fit better guns etc).
Make the Hyperion a sniper boat, and leave Mega alone (I already saw a suggestion to change Mega into a long range ship, which would be really *bad* and would probably leave us with two sub-par ships).
Not to mention Mega's more aggresive looks which really fit a close range ship, much better than the way Hyperion looks (from what I've seen at least).
Sniping is for the lose. The megathron works fine. Blasters are more fun. No, thanks.
Izo Azlion.
---
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karrak
Ruffians
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:02:00 -
[67]
First thing that cought my eye was grid..
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Ihar Enda
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:07:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Izo Azlion
Sniping is for the lose. The megathron works fine. Blasters are more fun. No, thanks.
That's why I want the Mega to stay as is and give Hyperion another role. EW (sensor dampening) maybe?
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lofty29
Praxiteles Inc.
E N I G M A
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:08:00 -
[69]
Needs a bit of a grid boost to make up for the missing lowslot, and about 20m/s more speed, but other than that, Game On! 
P.S. Ive already worked out a 2.1k DPS Tank with this baby, while still dishing out the DPS
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Praxiteles Inc. is Recruiting! |
Doomsday Machine
Caldari
Jovian Labs
Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:12:00 -
[70]
Tuxford take heed...
The Hyperion should be an all out do or die blasterboat. Im talking insane dps and a ****ty tank. Kill them before they kill you. It needs a full rack of Neutron IIs and 1 rep. Change the armor repairing bonus to an HP bonus.
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Ihar Enda
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:14:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Doomsday Machine
The Hyperion should be an all out do or die blasterboat. Im talking insane dps and a ****ty tank. Kill them before they kill you. It needs a full rack of Neutron IIs and 1 rep.
That's the Mega already, with a correct setup..
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:15:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Originally by: Nebuli
Edited by: Nebuli on 24/10/2006 18:06:36
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Zhull
Edited by: Zhull on 24/10/2006 17:50:29
I made some numbers using Naughty boy's spreadsheet and it is outdamaged by the Megatrhon at any range with similar setups.
Sounds pretty balanced, since it has the speed advantage instead.
Cant see how, blasterthron with neutrons and null can hit to 20k pretty nicely, so where the blasterthron wont even need to move to hit its target, the hypes going to have to move to use its crap ranged electrons.
In a way I'm kinda happy the Hype sucks as a blaster boat, means I dont have to fly the ugly thing and stick with my beautifull looking mega :)
I'm thinking likewise...
....however, I have a Blaster Dominix as part of my Arsenal (for variety), so there is already a place (and a name) ready and waiting for a Hyperion.
Ah, you guys were discussing megathron vs the hyperion. I was thinking along the lines of other race ships. For example, if a hyperion uses its speed advantage to catch someone, and on top of it would have the dps of the megathron, it seems slighly overpowered to me. Since the mega kills everything close to it today.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Arushia
Nova Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:23:00 -
[73]
On a slightly different topic, any screenies of it in action on SiSi?
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Doomsday Machine
Caldari
Jovian Labs
Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:24:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Ihar Enda
Originally by: Doomsday Machine
The Hyperion should be an all out do or die blasterboat. Im talking insane dps and a ****ty tank. Kill them before they kill you. It needs a full rack of Neutron IIs and 1 rep.
That's the Mega already, with a correct setup..
+1 Neutron II
The Megathron can already tank, we need an all out blasterboat that cant tank for **** but deals insane damage.
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Tasty Burger
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:27:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Ihar Enda
Originally by: Doomsday Machine
The Hyperion should be an all out do or die blasterboat. Im talking insane dps and a ****ty tank. Kill them before they kill you. It needs a full rack of Neutron IIs and 1 rep.
That's the Mega already, with a correct setup..
Exactly. Almost nothing survives a properly setup blasterthron atm.
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Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:29:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Ithildin
Change it's tanking bonus to +10% armour hit points
This I like. Maybe only 7.5% though, but either way this is a role appropiate bonus which is what the ship needs.
Yeah, I was thinking the same. If it got more hit points, it'd suddenly do something that the Megathron didn't which was soak damage. Right now it can, barely due to grid, repair damage. Not very blasterish, really.
If it got a bit more hit points instead, it'd be like a big, slow (and ugly some say), brute that lumbers in close to deliver the blow.
Seriously, armour tanking is an Amarr thing.
-
What am I listening to? |
Max Hardcase
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:36:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Max Hardcase on 24/10/2006 20:37:15
Mehhh I think tanking, period, aint gonna be much of anyone's thing anymore. Calculate how long it will take a LAR to catch up on a 3800hp plate and how much cap it uses while doing so.
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Doomsday Machine
Caldari
Jovian Labs
Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:38:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Ithildin
Change it's tanking bonus to +10% armour hit points
This I like. Maybe only 7.5% though, but either way this is a role appropiate bonus which is what the ship needs.
Yeah, I was thinking the same. If it got more hit points, it'd suddenly do something that the Megathron didn't which was soak damage. Right now it can, barely due to grid, repair damage. Not very blasterish, really.
If it got a bit more hit points instead, it'd be like a big, slow (and ugly some say), brute that lumbers in close to deliver the blow.
Seriously, armour tanking is an Amarr thing.
Another pilot who realizes what the Hyperion should be...
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Sathrai
Unlimited Blade Works
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Posted - 2006.10.24 20:40:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Alex Tremayne
Originally by: Ithildin
Change it's tanking bonus to +10% armour hit points
This I like. Maybe only 7.5% though, but either way this is a role appropiate bonus which is what the ship needs.
Yeah, I was thinking the same. If it got more hit points, it'd suddenly do something that the Megathron didn't which was soak damage. Right now it can, barely due to grid, repair damage. Not very blasterish, really.
If it got a bit more hit points instead, it'd be like a big, slow (and ugly some say), brute that lumbers in close to deliver the blow.
Seriously, armour tanking is an Amarr thing.
I think we're starting to cook with gas here. A similar proposal for shields sounded good on the Maelstrom, too - it's a hell of a lot more universally applicable than a repping bonus.
Food for Tuxford's thoughts!
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.24 21:12:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Arushia
On a slightly different topic, any screenies of it in action on SiSi?
It isn't seeded on Sisi yet. In fact, it's textures arn't in the patch either. Looks like the Hyoe is still on the drawing board- and good, by the looks of things. It's current stats arn't all that satisfactory, heres hoping what we're looking at is still a relic of an earlier attempt.
-----------------------------------------------
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Nebuli
Caldari
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2006.10.25 00:10:00 -
[81]
Some people seem to like the hype as it stands, can anyone give me an example fit that is usable and also better than the Mega?
For a start I think the Hype actualy loses a slot to the mega, where the mega has a tracking bonus so it can actualy hit with blasters the hype doesnt, so that extra mid slot is going to HAVE to be a tracking cpu, or maybe a second web, either way its losing a slot as its going to be forced to fitting one of the two to actualy hit anything.
CEO - Art of War
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lofty29
Praxiteles Inc.
E N I G M A
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Posted - 2006.10.25 00:17:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Nebuli
Some people seem to like the hype as it stands, can anyone give me an example fit that is usable and also better than the Mega?
Electrons
MWD, Dual web, Scram, Cap injector
Dual rep, 3x EANM II, Dcontrol
The hyperion will be a good ship for taking on multiple opponents. Imagine built-in faction reps 
---
Praxiteles Inc. is Recruiting! |
Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.25 08:26:00 -
[83]
Originally by: lofty29
The hyperion will be a good ship for taking on multiple opponents. Imagine built-in faction reps
The only thing those 'built in faction reps' will be good for is repairing your passive plate tank faster between fights. 
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 08:51:00 -
[84]
I'm contemplating. What has the Hyperion going for it over the Megathron?
1. It does less damage since it has smaller drone bay.
2. It does less damage with it's turrets since it's lacking a tracking bonus.
3. It has to fit smaller guns if it wants to make use of it's repair bonus.
4. The repair bonus isn't very useful.
Why does it have to be like this?
1. The Hyperion and the Megathron are both crammed into the same battlefield role - blasters.
2. Apparently all tier 3 battleships need to have a tanking bonus.
Dear developers, Tuxford, and TomB, one or both of these two has to go if you want to make the Hyperion useful without obsoleting the Megathron. Tuxford also stated he didn't like the Thorax style MWD bonus since it involved a powergrid, CPU, and capacitor heavy module to be used - armour repairers are even more powergrid, CPU, AND capacitor heavy!
Here are some suggestions.
Minimal effort, minimal result
* 7.5% Armour repair amount bonus changed to armour hit point bonus.
Comment: This is a minimum effort. The Hyperion suffers from a small powergrid, and lock range enforced close range set up. With this change, it will heavily promote plate-tanking, which is much more powergrid efficient than repair tanking.
Altered role
* Change one of the bonuses to Sensor Dampener Efficiency
* Move a low slot to mid slot
* Improve CPU
Comment: It doesn't matter which bonus you change, it'll work well regardless. My suggestion is the repair bonus, since electronic warfare is damage prevention.
A different kind of drone boat
* Change one of the bonuses to electronic warfare drone efficiency and MWD velocity.
* Tripple drone bay
Comment: It doesn't matter which bonus you change. This ship doesn't do damage with it's drones, it annoys the hell out of you with it's drones and kills you with it's guns. It's sort of a reversed Dominix.
Do something, the current Hyperion lacks a role.
You got the patches on test server. It's a test server. Let us test for you. In the end, we are the ones who'll abuse or reject the ships, not you.
If you let us test things now, we won't have to call you names on the forums the coming two years until you change it (at which point the other half of the forum users call you names BECAUSE you change it).
Disclaimer for the stupid: who said this change request is a request not to change the other ships in need? I didn't. Good, so don't flip out and write something stupid, 'cause the Maelstrom is also in dire need.
-
What am I listening to? |
Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 09:26:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Ithildin
I'm contemplating. What has the Hyperion going for it over the Megathron?
1. It does less damage since it has smaller drone bay.
2. It does less damage with it's turrets since it's lacking a tracking bonus.
3. It has to fit smaller guns if it wants to make use of it's repair bonus.
4. The repair bonus isn't very useful.
Indeed. Unless that hidden agility modifier makes the Hyperion handle like a cruiser I won't be leaving the Megathron for the Hyperion. Especially not with the advent of the new inertial stabilisers, which are awesome.
Originally by: Ithildin
Why does it have to be like this?
1. The Hyperion and the Megathron are both crammed into the same battlefield role - blasters.
2. Apparently all tier 3 battleships need to have a tanking bonus.
The combination of these two points is the real problem. The Mega is a perfectly servicable rail platform. A good one even. But due to the redundant tank bonus on the Hyperion, the Megathron is also the superior blaster platform.
Originally by: Ithildin
Dear developers, Tuxford, and TomB, one or both of these two has to go if you want to make the Hyperion useful without obsoleting the Megathron. Tuxford also stated he didn't like the Thorax style MWD bonus since it involved a powergrid, CPU, and capacitor heavy module to be used - armour repairers are even more powergrid, CPU, AND capacitor heavy!
Please, Tux, TomB, listen to the man. He speaks sense.
Originally by: Ithildin
Minimal effort, minimal result
* 7.5% Armour repair amount bonus changed to armour hit point bonus.
Comment: This is a minimum effort. The Hyperion suffers from a small powergrid, and lock range enforced close range set up. With this change, it will heavily promote plate-tanking, which is much more powergrid efficient than repair tanking.
Simple, straight forward, effective, and role appropriate. I like it.
Originally by: Ithildin
Altered role
* Change one of the bonuses to Sensor Dampener Efficiency
* Move a low slot to mid slot
* Improve CPU
Comment: It doesn't matter which bonus you change, it'll work well regardless. My suggestion is the repair bonus, since electronic warfare is damage prevention.
Sensor dampener efficiency isn't terribly helpful on a ship who is still going to have to get to point blank range to open fire. OK, it might allow you to close the distance without being fired upon, but still, this one leaves me a little cold really.
Originally by: Ithildin
A different kind of drone boat
* Change one of the bonuses to electronic warfare drone efficiency and MWD velocity.
* Tripple drone bay
Comment: It doesn't matter which bonus you change. This ship doesn't do damage with it's drones, it annoys the hell out of you with it's drones and kills you with it's guns. It's sort of a reversed Dominix.
This has real potential to be very interesting. It would have to be very carefully tested though. It would also probably require a fair bit of work.
Originally by: Ithildin
Do something, the current Hyperion lacks a role.
You got the patches on test server. It's a test server. Let us test for you. In the end, we are the ones who'll abuse or reject the ships, not you.
I cannot agree with this statement enough.
Originally by: Ithildin
If you let us test things now, we won't have to call you names on the forums the coming two years until you change it (at which point the other half of the forum users call you names BECAUSE you change it).
I must admit I worry that we'll see the Hyperion hit TQ unchanged and then have to wait years for it to be made in any way useful. Please don't let that happen Tux.
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Gavax
Psykotic Dreams
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 09:30:00 -
[86]
maybe if you all just stopped whining about what it has and what it doesn't have, and actually wait until you've flown it to try it
theory can only get you so far =]
from what i been told, there are a few errors on the stats of some of the new ships (bc and bs alike) and will be changed in due time, if you look at it - the kali patch doesn't seem to be THAT near, i mean seriously look at it, open the scanner - it still says under construction
so what i say is, rather than going on about it as tho its gonna be so insanely cack, and the only way to justify its existence is to repackage and buy a mega - wait and see =]
if you look at every thread everyone just has a boo about how there particular race is either getting nerfed or the ship isn't good enough, or the weapons aren't good enough
are you all forgetting rigs? =] how about a nice fat rig on the hyperion ;] might make it insane could it not?
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 09:33:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Ithildin
I'm contemplating. What has the Hyperion going for it over the Megathron?
1. It does less damage since it has smaller drone bay.
2. It does less damage with it's turrets since it's lacking a tracking bonus.
3. It has to fit smaller guns if it wants to make use of it's repair bonus.
4. The repair bonus isn't very useful.
Why does it have to be like this?
1. The Hyperion and the Megathron are both crammed into the same battlefield role - blasters.
2. Apparently all tier 3 battleships need to have a tanking bonus.
Dear developers, Tuxford, and TomB, one or both of these two has to go if you want to make the Hyperion useful without obsoleting the Megathron. Tuxford also stated he didn't like the Thorax style MWD bonus since it involved a powergrid, CPU, and capacitor heavy module to be used - armour repairers are even more powergrid, CPU, AND capacitor heavy!
Here are some suggestions.
Minimal effort, minimal result
* 7.5% Armour repair amount bonus changed to armour hit point bonus.
Comment: This is a minimum effort. The Hyperion suffers from a small powergrid, and lock range enforced close range set up. With this change, it will heavily promote plate-tanking, which is much more powergrid efficient than repair tanking.
Altered role
* Change one of the bonuses to Sensor Dampener Efficiency
* Move a low slot to mid slot
* Improve CPU
Comment: It doesn't matter which bonus you change, it'll work well regardless. My suggestion is the repair bonus, since electronic warfare is damage prevention.
A different kind of drone boat
* Change one of the bonuses to electronic warfare drone efficiency and MWD velocity.
* Tripple drone bay
Comment: It doesn't matter which bonus you change. This ship doesn't do damage with it's drones, it annoys the hell out of you with it's drones and kills you with it's guns. It's sort of a reversed Dominix.
Do something, the current Hyperion lacks a role.
You got the patches on test server. It's a test server. Let us test for you. In the end, we are the ones who'll abuse or reject the ships, not you.
If you let us test things now, we won't have to call you names on the forums the coming two years until you change it (at which point the other half of the forum users call you names BECAUSE you change it).
Disclaimer for the stupid: who said this change request is a request not to change the other ships in need? I didn't. Good, so don't flip out and write something stupid, 'cause the Maelstrom is also in dire need.
Why are you only listing its disadvantages and not the advantages such as speed and agility? You can do better than that...
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 09:35:00 -
[88]
Gavax, back up with stats or quotes, please.
There is no indication, what so ever, that these aren't the final stats. In fact, going by EVE change history, these ARE the final stats and most likely WONT change.
And no, rigs won't help the Hyperion. Rigs come with a penalty, and I have seen no penalty that the Hyperion could survive. Especially not the weapon rigs.
-
What am I listening to? |
Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 09:35:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Gavax
maybe if you all just stopped whining about what it has and what it doesn't have, and actually wait until you've flown it to try it
theory can only get you so far =]
from what i been told, there are a few errors on the stats of some of the new ships (bc and bs alike) and will be changed in due time, if you look at it - the kali patch doesn't seem to be THAT near, i mean seriously look at it, open the scanner - it still says under construction
so what i say is, rather than going on about it as tho its gonna be so insanely cack, and the only way to justify its existence is to repackage and buy a mega - wait and see =]
if you look at every thread everyone just has a boo about how there particular race is either getting nerfed or the ship isn't good enough, or the weapons aren't good enough
are you all forgetting rigs? =] how about a nice fat rig on the hyperion ;] might make it insane could it not?
We've been through this kind of thing before. If we don't moan, whinge and scream about it now, before it hits TQ, it will go through unchanged and won't be fixed for months or years.
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.10.25 09:41:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Why are you only listing its disadvantages and not the advantages such as speed and agility? You can do better than that...
Speed and agility? It's an immense 5m/s faster than the Megathron and the same mass. It will have to have truly insane agility to make up for all the other problems the ship has.
Lyrus Associates' Diplomat Of Last Resort |
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