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WCS nerf is pretty heavy.

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Serious Bob	Posted - 2006.10.24 16:46:00 - [31] Edited by: Serious Bob on 24/10/2006 16:46:26 Originally by: lofty29 ... you just ruin other people's fun. And that's why stabs are so fun. I expected more from you lofty.
Red Six Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.10.24 16:46:00 - [32] Originally by: Octavio Santillian I think what people fail to realize, at least in the case of a vaga, is that a lot of vaga pilots have spent near a billion isk on the ship + faction mods + implants. ItÆs only natural that said pilots want to protect that kind of investment, because a vaga can be easily killed if pined down and everyone is gunning for them. Now IÆll take the WCS nerf in stride, I do think there should be some kind of penalty. It will be interesting to see how the new inertial stabs work as a possible replacement. If you can't afford to fly it then don't. You know that with a Vagabond's speed, agility and quickness into warp 5 WCS on it was ridiculous but that is what the common fitting is. I personally like the sound of this WCS nerf. Originally by: Eridu Fallen Upon closer inspection, that Caldari BS doesn't even look like it got hit with the ugly stick, it looks like it is the ugly stick.
Mallakk	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:05:00 - [33] 16km ? its still too much. WCS are for transport or travelling people, those who think they are omfgbbqpvproxor should have 1km optimal with their 2 wcs...
Deadzone Caldari Phoenix Propulsion Labs Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:41:00 - [34] I dont use WCS nor do I fly a VAga...but I think that maybe WCS should carry a 25-30% penalty on them instead of nearly 50%. 50% does seem a bit too much. DZ Vice-Admiral Military Division Phoenix Propulsion Laboratories
Gierling Gallente Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:42:00 - [35] So anyone think that BE is gonna try and crash the forums over this like they did when damps were accidently nerfed?
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:44:00 - [36] Originally by: Gierling So anyone think that BE is gonna try and crash the forums over this like they did when damps were accidently nerfed? Question is, does anyone care? I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
DARKKK	Posted - 2006.10.24 17:46:00 - [37] I think BE will have some quite serious issues. I don't know what will happen to damps, but javelin torps are getting big fat nerf, ecm as well and stabs also. Basicly they will have to revisit setups... and i shall eagerly await to copy :)
Octavio Santillian	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:11:00 - [38] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Octavio Santillian I think what people fail to realize, at least in the case of a vaga, is that a lot of vaga pilots have spent near a billion isk on the ship + faction mods + implants. ItÆs only natural that said pilots want to protect that kind of investment, because a vaga can be easily killed if pined down and everyone is gunning for them. A bit of a chicken & egg argument this. People were not stabbing a vaga because they were using faction mods & implants, people were using faction mods & implants because it was viaable to use stabbed setups with the vaga without loosing combat effeciency. In short: faction mods were a result of stabs (because if you played right you would basically never die with a vaga, so it pays to faction it up), not the other way around. Perhaps, but the fact is I still have all these faction mods. I guess I 'could' sell the stuff (not the implants), but that's not likely. Really, the Vaga is only okish without all the faction gear and implants. Given that, and the fact that very few people could sustain many losses at 250 mil for the ship and a lot more for all the faction gear, itÆs going to hurt losing WCS on this ship. I'm sure some of you are saying...damn right! I understand that. But true to form, the Vaga is an oddball kind of ship, and it is one of the few combat ships I can honestly say that stabs have a place on. I know that the nerf is happening, and Vagas will be tamed. It's all good. I'm just saying stabs on a vaga were a little different than stabs on a sniper. A sniper generally has time to get out if aligned and at speed, it has more drones, more tank, and maybe even things like a medium NOS or multispec to defend itself. A vaga, on the other hand, is all about heroic strikes against superior odds and is always in the thick of tacklers. One heavy NOS and all that speed and all that ISK doesnÆt do you a lot of good, not to mention rapiers . ôWeÆre not doing for ISK...........WeÆre doing it for a ****load of ISK!ö
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:12:00 - [39] well, it does screw with their lock on times as well. 2 stabs dropped it's scan resolution to 81, which is slightly longer to lock onto targets than a Raven.
Octavio Santillian	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:14:00 - [40] Originally by: Red Six Originally by: Octavio Santillian I think what people fail to realize, at least in the case of a vaga, is that a lot of vaga pilots have spent near a billion isk on the ship + faction mods + implants. ItÆs only natural that said pilots want to protect that kind of investment, because a vaga can be easily killed if pined down and everyone is gunning for them. Now IÆll take the WCS nerf in stride, I do think there should be some kind of penalty. It will be interesting to see how the new inertial stabs work as a possible replacement. If you can't afford to fly it then don't. You know that with a Vagabond's speed, agility and quickness into warp 5 WCS on it was ridiculous but that is what the common fitting is. I personally like the sound of this WCS nerf. I fit 2 not 5; I mean who fits 5? Like I said, I'll adapt. And again, I can afford to lose it, but can I afford to replace it; how about twice, that's the question. ôWeÆre not doing for ISK...........WeÆre doing it for a ****load of ISK!ö
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:15:00 - [41] and really, this is only bout the stab change. Vaga will still be a good ship, and with speed rigs, better than ever before. It's just the stabs are getting nerfed, and that was the example listed.
Octavio Santillian	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:23:00 - [42] Originally by: Rafein and really, this is only bout the stab change. Vaga will still be a good ship, and with speed rigs, better than ever before. It's just the stabs are getting nerfed, and that was the example listed. Agreed, for the most part. ôWeÆre not doing for ISK...........WeÆre doing it for a ****load of ISK!ö
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:25:00 - [43] Originally by: lofty29 "matter of decency." "Dont logout, you just ruin other people's fun." Dude, you saying all that just made me rofl irl :) Scrapheap Challenge Forums
Commander Thrawn Tarnak inc. Eternal Empire	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:31:00 - [44] Originally by: Octavio Santillian Originally by: Red Six Originally by: Octavio Santillian I think what people fail to realize, at least in the case of a vaga, is that a lot of vaga pilots have spent near a billion isk on the ship + faction mods + implants. ItÆs only natural that said pilots want to protect that kind of investment, because a vaga can be easily killed if pined down and everyone is gunning for them. Now IÆll take the WCS nerf in stride, I do think there should be some kind of penalty. It will be interesting to see how the new inertial stabs work as a possible replacement. If you can't afford to fly it then don't. You know that with a Vagabond's speed, agility and quickness into warp 5 WCS on it was ridiculous but that is what the common fitting is. I personally like the sound of this WCS nerf. I fit 2 not 5; I mean who fits 5? Like I said, I'll adapt. And again, I can afford to lose it, but can I afford to replace it; how about twice, that's the question. all this means is you'll be like every other hac pilot i can put stabs on my zealot but it gimps my setup which was not the case with the vega most hac are expensice, my zealot with mods is worth at least 500mill and im not including implants. so get used to it
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:34:00 - [45] My opinion, FWIW, is that the penalty should ONLY apply to the second stab and above...fitting ONE should be free. No one is going effectively sensor damp themselves in return for fitting a WCS...CCP have overreacted (not for the first time, we should be used to it by now). lofty29...logging out is ruining other people's fun? You didn't care about that when you were gang-ganking mission runners in hi sec space... --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:41:00 - [46] Originally by: Grey Area No one is going effectively sensor damp themselves in return for fitting a WCS... Which is what CCP wants. Combat and WCS shouldn't go hand in hand. If you're going to blow up someone, you should also face the fact that you may get blown up in return. If you want to fit 2 stabs and try to fight then you deserve to be gimped. Honestly, this isn't enough. It's obvious that CCP gimped stabs with groups like Burn Eden in mind and have completely overlooked the 2 stab vagabond setup. If you're a 2 stab vagabond pilot that can't figure out how to overcome a 16km lock range, then you deserve to die. ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:43:00 - [47] Originally by: Imode Originally by: Grey Area No one is going effectively sensor damp themselves in return for fitting a WCS... Which is what CCP wants. Combat and WCS shouldn't go hand in hand. Why?
Chode Rizoum Minmatar Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:44:00 - [48] about time WCS got nerfed good job ccp...
murder one Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:44:00 - [49] Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Imode Originally by: Grey Area No one is going effectively sensor damp themselves in return for fitting a WCS... Which is what CCP wants. Combat and WCS shouldn't go hand in hand. Why? If you have to ask, you're beyond having it explained to you. Because I said so...
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:46:00 - [50] The way they have implemented this nerf is a stroke of pure genius. No serious PvP will now fit stabs, wheras haulers are uneffected. Excellent work.
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:48:00 - [51] Originally by: Butter Dog The way they have implemented this nerf is a stroke of pure genius. No serious PvP will now fit stabs, wheras haulers are uneffected. haulers are affected. Do you know smth about ecm to terminate ceptor lock? Sometimes it helps.
Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:48:00 - [52] OMG takes my afk stabbed mining iteron forever to lock onto that veld roid! I can hear the whines now... ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Zixxa	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:50:00 - [53] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Imode Originally by: Grey Area No one is going effectively sensor damp themselves in return for fitting a WCS... Which is what CCP wants. Combat and WCS shouldn't go hand in hand. Why? If you have to ask, you're beyond having it explained to you. AFAIK, "Dead" Red Alliance did explain to you how to fight. So shut up.
Chode Rizoum Minmatar Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:50:00 - [54] Originally by: Zixxa Originally by: Butter Dog The way they have implemented this nerf is a stroke of pure genius. No serious PvP will now fit stabs, wheras haulers are uneffected. haulers are affected. Do you know smth about ecm to terminate ceptor lock? Sometimes it helps. "serious pvp"
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:51:00 - [55] Originally by: Zixxa AFAIK, "Dead" Red Alliance did explain to you how to fight. So shut up. Be silent, alt boy. Go sensor damp yourself
Beef Hardslab	Posted - 2006.10.24 18:57:00 - [56] I'm kinda new (and not a PVP'er yet), so I may be a bit off... but doesn't this make FOF missiles pimp for those that want to fight and stab?
Corey Grim FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:00:00 - [57] i fly vagabond sometimes and i love this WCS nerf can you believe it i have never used stabs in combat fitted ship and prolly never will. this just makes vagabond more uber (wich is kinda sad) as ppl realize that vagabond is working best when u use your lows for something else. My latest Video: Hysteria
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:01:00 - [58] Originally by: Beef Hardslab I'm kinda new (and not a PVP'er yet), so I may be a bit off... but doesn't this make FOF missiles pimp for those that want to fight and stab? Yeah, but FOF missiles are more dangerous than your enemy... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:02:00 - [59] Originally by: Beef Hardslab I'm kinda new (and not a PVP'er yet), so I may be a bit off... but doesn't this make FOF missiles pimp for those that want to fight and stab? Umm... I can see what you're getting at, but no. There's a few elements to PVP. First thing is making sure your target doesn't just run away. You need to use a warp scram for that. If you can't target, then no warp scram. Second, if you come at a target who has no intention of fighting you, then FoF missiles won't work. They're an odd, pidgeonholed beast. Once they're activated, they'll fire at the closest target that is agressing you. If the target does not agress you (read: tries to run instead of fight) then the missiles will not launch regardless if you have lock or not. ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
Imode Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.24 19:04:00 - [60] Originally by: Corey Grim i fly vagabond sometimes and i love this WCS nerf can you believe it i have never used stabs in combat fitted ship and prolly never will. this just makes vagabond more uber (wich is kinda sad) as ppl realize that vagabond is working best when u use your lows for something else. LOL, shhh. Don't say anything, otherwise the next wcs nerf will include removing 2 lo slots from Vagabonds. ____________________________ Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes

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