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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Karandor
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Posted - 2006.10.30 04:12:00 -
[181]
This nerf is excellent. If you have problems running missions in a system because of rats HUNT THEM DOWN. Get your corp and alliance mates together and have some fun. Hedaleofarber is a huge mission running hub and there are VERY few rats there because they get hunted and killed very quickly. If you can do level 4 missions easily you can PvP too.
I always thought mission running was for when you needed money or had nothing more interesting to do. People actually do it for FUN? I've had more than a few rats get away from me and my corpmates because of WCS, seeing it nerfed makes me happy in my pants. WCS aren't allowed on combat vessels in my corp. When people plan on running away they generally do just that. Plan on winning and it may happen more often.
If you want to mine low sec or 0.0 get some freaking guards. You people have friends right? RIGHT?
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Flaming sambuka
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2006.10.30 10:06:00 -
[182]
/me says his prayers.
Ok so this nerf is great n dandy, it really is but in pvp if its 1v1 or even a small gang engagement your going to be under 20km, for short range under 7.5km. The nerf bat has hit hard and on ships like stabbed up ecm scorps i can appreciate the nerf but on most ships like the bthron, vaga, deimos, tempest, geddon and all the others its really not going to make that much of a difference since they are all close range ships, the only hit there going to take is the lock time which yeah is pretty good but its not really gonna hurt these ships that much at all if they want to kill there target (especially the vaga). You guys know what im getting at, just reason with me for once
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Earthan
Gallente GREY COUNCIL
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Posted - 2006.10.30 10:09:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Rafein 2 stabs on a vagabond brought a Vagabond from 60 Km lock range to 16 KM.
very good - A knight in space,war veteran,Grey Council military officer. Grey Council webpage
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Damis Zohar
Pirates of Destruction Union Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.10.30 10:47:00 -
[184]
Low sec missioners can still fit stabs and offline them while in mission right ?
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Estan Drake
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Posted - 2006.10.30 19:41:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Damis Zohar Low sec missioners can still fit stabs and offline them while in mission right ?
I think you are missing the point some people would make. Missioners sometimes use at least one WCS at times since Mission NPCs scramble them. On a level 4 even in hi-sec where the whole room aggros you at once and you get lagged for a few seconds, a WCS can mean the difference between a repairing a damaged battleship and shopping for a new one.
Personally, I have never used a WCS except in Cosmos missions. It would be a shame to make a WCS completely useless to mission runners.
for a single WCS, like most other mods that are stacking nerfed, there shouldn't be a penalty. 2 and more, yes. 4? Their ship should probably implode or something.
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ZuN3
Fortunis Novum
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Posted - 2006.10.30 19:43:00 -
[186]
Running missions is a risk, just as pvping is. Why shouldn't the nerf apply to them?
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.10.30 21:11:00 -
[187]
I think the nerf would have been better if stabs interfered with scrams....you can stab OR scram, but not both.....wouldnt effect mission runners, and would encourage team play...
wouldnt change much out in 0.0 with dictors tho....just thought it was an idea that was more fun.
Originally by: Tuxford Yes we don't play on our main accounts simply because you would lose all respect for us
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LWMaverick
Quam Singulari Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.10.30 21:21:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Grey Area
Originally by: Commander Nikolas The changes will be a step in the right direction for WCS. Hopefully more penalties will be added.
Get back under your bridge, Troll. Or rather, back to your gatecamp.
.... a little bitter huh?
<3 |
Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.30 22:56:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Damis Zohar Low sec missioners can still fit stabs and offline them while in mission right ?
Do you know the requirements for onlining them again? You have to have 95% cap. If you're running a mission, you don't HAVE 95% cap. So if the player pirate warps into my mission, are you suggesting I politely email him to ask if he'd mind AWFULLY waiting until my cap is back to 95% so I can online my WCS before attacking me?
Best compromise is that the penalty applies to second stab and above. A pirate who fits the close rang scrambler will still catch mission runners, cos they won't fit TWO and incur the penalty, but "opportunist" pirates who only fitted a 1 point scrambler would not be so successful.
And LWMaverick, yes, I AM bitter. I rarely fit WCS. I'm a deep empire mission runner at the moment, so no need for them. But I find the venom that is levelled at WCS to be so over the top that it is comic. There is no 50% penalty to ANYTHING to fit a scrambler. Why should there be one to fit a stab? Can you give me ONE single module that incurs a 50% penalty to anything? The closest I can think of is the MWD at 25% to cap...and even if that was 50% to cap, I would say it wasn't as severe as 50% to range.
So...we have a module that is about to become the most crippling module in EVE, and some NUMPTY posts that it's not enough. I lost my temper. Sue me. --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Estan Drake
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Posted - 2006.10.31 00:23:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Grey Area So...we have a module that is about to become the most crippling module in EVE, and some NUMPTY posts that it's not enough. I lost my temper. Sue me.
They were just ****ing and moaning that they couldn't gank everyone all the time without a little bit of skill. God forbid they actually have to chase somebody or use the scanner.
I'm sure they will find something else to whine about after the WCS changes as well. "Nerf warp.. they keep warping away while I try to snipe them from outside of sentry range!"
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Bloody Scince
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Posted - 2006.11.02 07:28:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Earthan
Originally by: Rafein 2 stabs on a vagabond brought a Vagabond from 60 Km lock range to 16 KM.
very good
/Signed
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LC Sulla
BGG Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.02 08:42:00 -
[192]
Edited by: LC Sulla on 02/11/2006 08:42:45 Does anyone think this may have the overall result of decreasing pvp activity (at least between quality ships).
Up in Deklein we often get lone vagas with 2-3 x wcs raiding our assets. They are very hard to catch because of their speed but a well place bubble or interdictor can ruin their day (especially if there is a scorp present because they can usually obliterate tacklers very fast). When they are destroyed they are nearly always decked out in faction and/or t2 gear. It's a nice catch when we get them.
With the nerf I am a little concerned these guys will be much more reluctant to come a play with their best kit mounted (or worse... not come and play at all). And I'm of the view that less quality pvp will be bad for Eve. I'm also of the view that if these guys have 800+ mill ISK mounted then a little wcs 'insurance' is not always a bad thing.
Speaking as a player in 0.0 I've always felt that wcs were nerfed a little with the introduction of interdictors and bubbles (and a well placed little camp). Although for empire wars I am aware bubbles and interdictors cannot be used.
Not sure how it will play out in the long run so I'm reserving my judgement.
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Goewyn Ravenclaw
Minmatar Stormriders
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Posted - 2006.11.02 09:19:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Grey Area Let's get one thing straight.
And as to the comment I can "still run missions, only slower"...you really have NEVER tried it, have you?
Missions in low sec are now dead. Welcome to Motsu, population 600 and rising....
Just because you can't run missions in low sec without a stab does not make impossible. I've lived in 0.1 for the last year and a half running missions. Apart from a momentary blip where I fitted a stab to my raven for a week or two I have never done it. I soon realised it's better to have a better tank than rely on essentially a wasted slot.
Missions in Low sec are by no means dead, although all of the pilots incapable of thinking a way round this nerf and returning to high sec is good for me, less lagg!
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.02 17:49:00 -
[194]
Originally by: LC Sulla Edited by: LC Sulla on 02/11/2006 08:42:45 Does anyone think this may have the overall result of decreasing pvp activity (at least between quality ships).
All these whiners do not think, because they have not enough brain. They screams: "Wow! No more stabbabond! Good!" Poor *tards do not understand that they will see no more vagabonds at all. At least in good faction/t2 fit. But they will see a lots of tier2 BC's and plain BS(cheap and 100% insurance).
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Uggster
Caldari Never'where
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Posted - 2006.11.02 18:00:00 -
[195]
Edited by: Uggster on 02/11/2006 18:01:06 I just dont know what I'm going to do with my last two low slots in my Caracal now _______________________________________________
Sig removed as inappropriate- Tirg |
Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.02 19:19:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Goewyn Ravenclaw Just because you can't run missions in low sec without a stab does not make impossible. I've lived in 0.1 for the last year and a half running missions. Apart from a momentary blip where I fitted a stab to my raven for a week or two I have never done it. I soon realised it's better to have a better tank than rely on essentially a wasted slot.
Missions in Low sec are by no means dead, although all of the pilots incapable of thinking a way round this nerf and returning to high sec is good for me, less lagg!
I'm not a PVPer, and I'm not apologising for that. We are a small corp who does not have the resources to base ourselves in 0.1 where you are.
I'm talking about a largely empire based corp, who OCCASIONALLY get given a mission that is just "over the border" into 0.4 space. 0.4 space is worse than 0.1 space because they are invariably choke points from empire to 0.0...this means it attracte both gatecampers AND mission runner hunters in much greater numbers than you will find in 0.1. It is THESE mission runners who are being unfairly penalised by this nerf.
And I'm glad to see at least one poster has seen the light...no, you won't be seeing any warp core stabs any more...but I'm afraid you won't be seeing the ships that they used to be fitted to either. Those who whined that they couldn't catch people with warp core stabs were the unprofessional, unprepared and opportunist pirates. In general, the security of a WCS was false...as the poster pointed out, they COULD be cuaght. But because CCP have listened to the whiners who wanted an easy kill, all you professional, prepared and patient pirates I am sure are going to see a startling drop in your kill tallies...people will simply choose not to come. --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Radiamantis
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Posted - 2006.11.06 10:21:00 -
[197]
I must say I'm a bit splitted between the 2 point of view ! I haven"t read everything because it's quite long repetetive !
I hate chasing people in 0.0 who have more than 1 WCS !!!! Around where I play there are peoploe unwanted with 6WCS and a cloak on a raven, what's that about ! You need a gang of takkler to unable them to warp out and a gang to do damage !!! That is quite hard if you are a small corp
I think wcs should be nefted if you use more than 1 ! Because if you only have 1 and are chasing in 0.0, 2 jammers can unable you to warp out ! Simple ! One wcs should be allowed but the use of more than one should be nerfed !
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Vox'Dei
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Posted - 2006.11.06 12:34:00 -
[198]
Originally by: ZuN3 Running missions is a risk, just as pvping is. Why shouldn't the nerf apply to them?
pvping is not a risk. The only risk in pvp is that you will run into a gate camp or cloaked ship. No cloaked ship or gate camps and the only risk you take is the risk of lost time. Seriously rock paper scissors, you fight what you can beat and run from what you can't. W/o stabs theres no reason to attempt to fight something you dont think you can beat. Risk vs reward argument is the most broken one ive heard period.
In the end the only thing this will do is increase the usability of ships that can succssfuly fit stabs because tacklers will no longer have a reason to fit more then 2 points of scramblage. It will also be a nerf to most npc fittings for people who don't want to fight. Adapation will happen though. Ill probably just bring ecm drones or t2 meds instead of fitting stabs, and fit those two extra bcus ive been meaning to.
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zwerg
Caldari mUfFiN fAcToRy Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.11.06 13:20:00 -
[199]
now tbh,
i am a vagabond pilot, can proudly say that after half a year flying around everywhere with this beauty.
and the stab nerv is really, really needed. But not THAT MUCH! i mean wtf? that shall be a nerf? Please Tux/CCp could you just remove it out of the game if you nerv it that much?!
i lost so many kills because of stabs, and i still wonder how a vexor/thorax can stabbed ( 2x ) rat in syndicate, but im still against that massive nerf of the stabbies.
maybe lower the nerf a bit would solve that problem, i will be complaining about it after that, ye true, but i still can see the newbs in eve who just wanna make money and are using stabs, and after kali cant.
You see? Then we can go kill them! UHUUUUUUUUUU, what a thing! TBH youre just trashing the game!
/zwerg
Save the whales!!! Harpoon some Amarrians!!!!
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Nemain
Amarr Obsidian Asylum
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Posted - 2006.11.06 15:10:00 -
[200]
Edited by: Nemain on 06/11/2006 15:12:23 Personally I have mixed fellings about this nerf. On the plus side it means setups like the stababond should be a thing of the past. Any setup that has to be countered by multiple inties or if you are lucky, 1 stilleto with 2xScrambler, web and mwd is definetly not right, so it is definetly a step in the right direction.
On the downside I do feel it may be a bit harsh on PVE setups and when used as a genuine scramble counter on close range ships. Regardless of WCS complaints, 1 or 2 on a short range ship is a reasonable setup as close range ships are more at risk of getting scrambled, so being able to still be reasonably effective and be able to warp whenever it gets in blaster, ac range is a legitimate need.
In my view there should be 2 varients, 1 as already proposed called somthing like Civilian WCS, and another called somthing like Combat WCS which you can only use 1 of, that reduces targetting range only by 50%, gives +2 strengh and has to be activated which uses a fair amount of cap per cycle. That way travel ships stay as is, but short range combat ships can still be given the chance to escape a single +2 scrambler without abuse. This means they are still going to be caught by a dedicated tackler as they should be, as opposed to every ship that fits a disruptor or scrambler.
Seems alot more balanced to me like that and doesn't put all the apples in the basket of the scrambler, but doesn't mean scramble immune combat ships will be possible.
And/Or a remote warp core strengh mod so other ships can help allies who are scrambled. Though make them high slot mods to prevent close knit gangs efectively making each other unable to be scrambled while still being combat effective.
Essentially my view is WCS do have a place in and out of combat, just not in their current form which is ioen to abuse.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.06 15:14:00 -
[201]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 06/11/2006 15:15:20
So who hasnt sold the Vaga yet?
Naah, to be honest, its still a good ship. You just have to make 100% sure you dont get webbed.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.06 15:17:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
So who hasnt sold the Vaga yet?
I haven't. Planning to buy a few more. Very excited over getting my alt up to skills for flying the ****ed things. However, I only ever used stabs on my Deimos, because that's the only ship that I know that is gimped enough to need stabs in order to bugger off so often. - Am I in the coolest alliance or what? |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.11.06 15:20:00 -
[203]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 06/11/2006 15:20:47
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Jim McGregor
So who hasnt sold the Vaga yet?
I haven't. Planning to buy a few more. Very excited over getting my alt up to skills for flying the ****ed things. However, I only ever used stabs on my Deimos, because that's the only ship that I know that is gimped enough to need stabs in order to bugger off so often.
Yeah, they are fun, but you need those super expensive snakes to get the most from them. And personally, I feel they are too expensive to fly around comfortably.
The hurricane will provide some much needed fun instead. :)
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Snikkt
Gallente Time Cube Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.06 15:24:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Vox'Dei
pvping is not a risk.
I read this, and promptly ignored the rest of your post.
PvP is probably the riskiest thing you can do, because, now with these warp stab nerf, it's do or die, once you engage, you, or him is going down, and losing everything you've got with you, and possibly your pod.
The nerf maked PvP the riskiest thing in EVE, bar none. -------------------
If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
My opinions are not my corporations.
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smallgreenblur
Minmatar Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2006.11.06 16:08:00 -
[205]
Yay ccp!
I can stop fitting 3 tackling points on all my ships, swearing as 8-wcs geddons warp off into the distance after ganking a mate, and trying to decide between slowing a vaga down and watching it warp out, or scrambling it and watching it mwd away. The best part has to be that it was my suggestion in the first place!
Go sgb!
Can I have a cookie?
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Kaeten
Hybrid Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.06 16:14:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Octavio Santillian I think what people fail to realize, at least in the case of a vaga, is that a lot of vaga pilots have spent near a billion isk on the ship + faction mods + implants. ItĘs only natural that said pilots want to protect that kind of investment, because a vaga can be easily killed if pined down and everyone is gunning for them.
Now IĘll take the WCS nerf in stride, I do think there should be some kind of penalty. It will be interesting to see how the new inertial stabs work as a possible replacement.
don't fly what you can't afford to loose...
About the nerf, ABOUT ******* TIME.
Euro Empire/0.0 Gang PvP Recruitment |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari Boryokudan Incorporated
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Posted - 2006.11.06 16:16:00 -
[207]
WCS nerf affects my Cerberus more than Vagabonds. --------- Faction Warfare Begins Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! |
Ione Hunt
Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.11.06 16:22:00 -
[208]
Tbh, speed has saved my Vagabond more often than WCS. Good change imo ________________________________________________
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.06 16:24:00 -
[209]
Originally by: smallgreenblur Yay ccp!
I can stop fitting 3 tackling points on all my ships, swearing as 8-wcs geddons warp off into the distance after ganking a mate, and trying to decide between slowing a vaga down and watching it warp out, or scrambling it and watching it mwd away. The best part has to be that it was my suggestion in the first place!
Go sgb!
Can I have a cookie?
Try to use more tacklers. Or your corp cannot afford to use tacklers?
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2006.11.06 16:28:00 -
[210]
Edited by: Zixxa on 06/11/2006 16:29:37
Originally by: Kaeten don't fly what you can't afford to loose...
Truth. But sometimes you need to bring smth more expensive (at least to make your enemy happy when they will manage to kill you). Do you follow me? People will use cheap t1 ships. With cheap t1 equipment(or inexpensive t2). It is not good. We have to get balance between annoying stabbabonds and full removing of warp scramble protection fron any ships(except stupidiest haulers).
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