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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
PhamNuwen
Caldari
Bungee Jumper
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Posted - 2006.11.20 18:52:00 -
[271]
Edited by: PhamNuwen on 20/11/2006 19:06:37
I made some tests to invention:
1) strange material requirements (not balaced up to now?)
Ferox 3run-BPC (ME20/PE5): 2 types of 16 datcores
MOA 5run-BPC (ME40/PE5): 2 types of 8 datacores
Osprey 5run-BPC (ME20/PE0): 2 types of 8 datacores
Kestrel 30run (ME10/PE0): 2 types of 1 datacore
+ 1 Esoteric Ship data interface
+ Skill: Caldari encryption Lvl1 (skill missing! - bad for testing)
+ Skill: Mechanical engineering Lvl1 (too low!)
+ Skill: Cald Starship engineering engineering Lvl1 (too low!)
Time 1d 1h
2) Strange:
Bestower/Badger Mark II: "2006.11.20 18:28:21 Info This job cannot result in an output blueprint. The reason might be that the metalevel of your input blueprint is too high or that there are no items in the same metagroup with a higher metalevel."
No T2-Bestower/T2-Badger II available? Or ME too high? Or too much number of runs?
Please add the missing items to market (for testing):
- datacores
- skills
- Esoteric Ship data interface
Please re-work the interfaces (store last position/size; more sophistcated default values; store last selection in combo boxes)
Thx
Update:
Power Diagnostic Unit:
2 types of 2 datacores
1 Occult data interface
+ Skill: Amarr encryption Methods Lvl1 (ups, not in market?)
+ Skill: Quantum Physics Lvl1
+ Skill: High Energy Physics Lvl1
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Gort
Rampage Eternal
Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2006.11.20 21:32:00 -
[272]
I don't mind complicated, within reason, but the obscurantism in Eve is running rampant atm.
Low-tech sig:
"When in doubt, empty the magazine." |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2006.11.21 06:29:00 -
[273]
 Originally by: Gort
I don't mind complicated, within reason, but the obscurantism in Eve is running rampant atm.
QFT
When depth of options can not be made, use the overly complex to expand the options beyond manageability.
However I think CCP doesn't have much choice in the matter. We are, after all, a very adaptive bunch that pushes CCP further than they plan on. Each and every time.
I forget who was complaining about the fact that invention favors the veterans of the game but I'd like to point out that as a vet with roughly 100K rp through various agents I don't feel like I'm all that much ahead of you.
Once my bonus for paying $15 USD per month, for coming up on 4 years, is gone it is gone. After that, anyone that grinds up some missions can access the same agents I have and do the same research I am doing. I'm just getting something for my investment of time and energy. My bonus will likely be misspent on the early days of invention while it is still being adjusted, tweaked, and somehow along the way nerfed not in my favor.
That is the experience of being a veteran in Eve. Knowing that things are what they are and will likely change in ways that you simply just don't like or weren't prepared to swallow. And you simply keep on through out it all.
Only one cure for not being a veteran. Whining about it is not on the list.
Still screwing the dictionary, baby. One long word at a time!
Arknox > shar with bad hair day >>> solution = suicide and spawn fresh clone :D |
Khajit Smitty
Minmatar
MisFunk Inc.
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Posted - 2006.11.21 08:47:00 -
[274]
Edited by: Khajit Smitty on 21/11/2006 08:48:20
Originally by: Imhotep Khem
You sound like a college student. Come to the real world where we don't have time/luxury to find out ALL the facts before we make decisions. Where, in fact, your value as an engineer is based on your ability to make decisions without the "required" information.
My friend i am in the real world and im far from a "college student" - making decisions based on virtually no information is an assumption and "Assumptions are the mother off all ****ups", engineers (i presume you are one) make educated decisions based on limited yet ACCURATE information and yes sometimes they apply existing knowledge from existing solutions to guess their way through it. Its the same as myself (software developer) we often have to make educated decisions based on limited information but that information generally has some level of detail or practical real life example to study.
Currently invention is not testable, there are some abstract dev blogs , there is limited information on how it will work (Vague information) yet people are stating things like certain T2 modules wont be invented based on something they dont understand yet, i mean common, honestly, wait until its out..
Educated discussions regarding what would be kewl, woulnt be kewl, what could happen, what people are doing to prepare for it are great and i say keep them coming.
Anyways just ignore me, im a 19 year old drug induced caffenine addicted pimple faced college student.
Oh and i think invention is awesome, even if it sounds really complicated.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.11.22 06:58:00 -
[275]
Kajit, you are right, the thru is that witj or post we are trying to get some reply from the developers, who should have most of the answers.
Beyond that I am deeply concerned. I am following the scanning discussion too for the information on how finding the complex needed for the data interfaces, skills, and added datacores.
So far the number of complex discovered is very low, with a signal strengt so low to bd detected by 1 probe in a hundred, obviously if you are in the right system.
If that stay true datainterface and skillbook prices will be in the billions.
I am not happy so far.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.11.22 17:27:00 -
[276]
I think invention is a great idea, for one simple reason. Unlike the current T2 BPO market, it's tunable after release.
You can't _really_ recall people's T2 BPOs that they bought for 185bajillion isks.
However with invention you can adjust 'success rates' such that the desired results are achieved, once the initial emergent behaviour settles down.
For those that are complaining how many cores it takes, and how long it takes to earn one, well, yes. I fully expect that producing HACs _shouldn't_ be a solo enterprise.
OK, so if it take a week to 'earn' a core (half that if you run missions) welll ... so what? There's still probably about 50,000 people who are also earning one (or more) core per week, and of those some will just sell them - obviously supply and demand will determine what ratio try to sell vs. try to invent with them, but ... this is good isn't it? I'll quite happily train up Research Project management and farm datacores, either to hand off to my corpmates, alliance or sell on the open market.
In many ways, the barriers to entry are what promotes this - if you have invested in the skills, decryptors and stuff to invent stuff, then the cores are going to be worth more to you than J random newbie who feels like trying to get lucking on a cerberus BPC.
My only real concern is whether more BPOs will be introduced via the lottery once invention goes live - at which point it'll be a trade off where the people who actually _want_ to be researchers end up losing out on their relative chances to people who just sit on their RP stockpile.
That said, if there _are_ to be new T2 BPOs released, IMO the best way to do that is add a (very small) percentage change of a real breakthrough on the research project until they're handed out. Thus the 'real' researchers end up getting a payoff for their efforts.
Also, for all those who are providing a huge amount of froth about how certain invention stuff will only be in 0.0, where do you think most of the megacyte and probably zydrine on the Jita market comes from? OK, so you may not have access to 0.0.
I can guarantee you though, if you're prepared to put up money in proportion to value and effort, there _will_ be people selling the '0.0 only' stuff.
Looks good to me, although I would like to be able to play with it on SiSi. - please add the invention stuff to the market.
It'd also be rather useful to have relative value of the invention options indicated. I don't think the percentage chance of inventing should be disclosed - this does allow for on the fly modification due to percieved imbalance.
However, some indication of relative weight of each of the ingredients would be useful e.g.
how important is it to have the decryptor, metamodule, BPC runs/ME/PE, relevant skill.
Some guideline on if you do all the stuff and feed it a top end named module, your chances to invent are X times better than if you just invent without, that would be really lovely.
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Brolly
Caldari
The Department of Justice
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Posted - 2006.11.23 22:46:00 -
[277]
Anyone found the locations of datacores yet or is this going to be untested by the mass.
/me looks at clock and points
5 days left to revelations and no testing 
If I had ú1 for every intelligent comment posted in general discussion, I'd be hideously in debt |
Kunming
Amarr
adeptus gattacus
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.23 23:06:00 -
[278]
Looking at the whole invention system.. I only wish they never brought out T2 BPOs. Unfortunately despite the best effords of the devs, they are haunted by their shortsightedness!
Quote:
READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
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Swamp Ziro
EPSILON TEAM
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.11.24 00:35:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Imhotep Khem
Originally by: Khajit Smitty
Speculation, assumptions, more speculation and even more assumptions....
im totally fascinated how people can attempt to discuss something to such levels based on very vague and abstract information provided.
You sound like a college student. Come to the real world where we don't have time/luxury to find out ALL the facts before we make decisions. Where, in fact, your value as an engineer is based on your ability to make decisions without the "required" information.
Haha awesome =) And I agree !
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2006.11.24 17:57:00 -
[280]
Edited by: Amy Wang on 24/11/2006 17:57:52
1. Invention has a great potential to balance the t2 market.
2. Invention will be horribly broken and unbalanced when it goes live because a beta test cant yield enough information for the needed tuning while the life version can can be tuned and fixed until it really works as James pointed out.
What Invention should mean:
- R&D is a viable profession that yields money over time not based on luck alone like the lottery
- dropping T2 prices to a lower level until they stabilise again due to a simple mechanic:
1. People invest RP in the products with the highest profit margin (e.g. t2 ships, some of the t2 weapons etc).
2. Competition let the prices drop.
3. Dropping prices increase demand since more people are willing/able to afford those t2 products, prices stabilise.
4. Dropping prices make it less profitable to invent certain products, prices stabilise.
5. Rising prices make it more attractive to invent certain things -> 1.
I dont think the prices will drop too much but I can imagine them going down to the niveau they had a couple months ago and then stay there.
The Key is that the effort/RP amount put in must be worth it without making it the ultimate cash cow.
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ArchenTheGreat
Caldari
Yesodic Nomads Corp
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2006.11.24 18:55:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Amy Wang
What Invention should mean:
- R&D is a viable profession that yields money over time not based on luck alone like the lottery
- dropping T2 prices to a lower level until they stabilise again due to a simple mechanic:
- making R&D profession with "progress". Character with low skills and only one level 1 R&D agent should still be able to invent. Of course not everything and not as efficiently as highly skilled one. Unfortunately now R&D path is only viable if you grind multiple lvl4 R&D agents for several months.
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Brolly
Caldari
The Department of Justice
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Posted - 2006.11.24 18:59:00 -
[282]
The amount of datacores given out by an agent seems to have been restricted, I could only get 4 off my agent and I have 500K rp with. Looks like deepspace complexes will be the main source of datacores.
As it had been stated before, most of the new complexes found will be in low sec space. I can't wait for the next 'nerf empire' thread in general discussion, lol.
If I had ú1 for every intelligent comment posted in general discussion, I'd be hideously in debt |
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