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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Bermag
Point-Zero
Ratel Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.27 10:47:00 -
[61]
One more question. How many runs will the BPCs you create from invention be?
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Stein Voorhees
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.10.27 17:12:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: Illuminaty
...So either its possible, or pirates are ninjas with magical powers.
Thankyou, I just fell off my chair laughing 
Back on topic, I've heard a few rumours and snippets of info regarding Cloaks and invention but is there anything definative on how/if this will work?
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Excremento
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Posted - 2006.10.27 18:21:00 -
[63]
I think its time for me to go buy a stabber BPO and start researching it. Then get a bunch of copies ready.
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Ronon Dex
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Posted - 2006.10.27 19:11:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Mephysto
Originally by: Eilie
Now than, the important questions are:
1) How many RP does a datacore cost?
1) this value is not finalised yet, but a few hundred to a couple of thousand RP's for a datacore, with a maximum number being able to be purchased in a given day.
Ok, so I'm not helping much with these answers am I? 
So taking 1 of the bpc's from a screenshot posted above, that requires 32 datacores (16 of each type) costing say 1000 rp each, thats 32,000 rp @ 100rp per day = 320 days researching to aquire the datacores needed to start a single invention job that could fail and return nothing?
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Effei Gloom
Minmatar
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.27 20:36:00 -
[65]
it looks like both T1 and T2 bpo of the new upgrades will go into lottery + invent... total of 90 new bpo
the T1 bpo wont be NPC sold -> skill requirement listed 
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Mikal Drey
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Posted - 2006.10.27 21:28:00 -
[66]
if you need one of the 4 racial encryption skills to invent items; what about ORE ? does this already mean that hulks/makinaws/skiffs will also not be possible to invent like the already mentioned Covert ops cloak ?
also will whoever has an expanded cargo hold 1 BPC be able to create expanded cargohold II bpc's ? <-- this guy would be seriously rich.
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Chitah
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.10.27 22:54:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Chitah on 27/10/2006 22:56:46
Edited by: Chitah on 27/10/2006 22:54:47
If the Datacores will be available from a couple RP to couple of thousand RP this will be bad..very bad. Some thoughts:
As stated before by Kanuo Ashkeron:
From what I see from the dev blog (http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=384):
1) You need a T1 BPC (available in empire)
2) You may want to put a t1 item into the process (available in empire)
3) You need Data cores (available from r&d agents, they are in empire, right?)
4) You need a Data interface (ok this one could only be available in the new COSMOS regions in 0.0), but you only need one for infinite jobs.
5) You may want to put a decryptor in (which could only be available in 0.0)
Point 1:
Is ok...i don't think anyone discuss this point except for some items like the cloaking device. IMO the prototype Cloaking device should be available on T1 market.
Point 2:
You may take a T1 item....This is good for mods...and what abou ships? if we are going for T2 BPC ships...should we put a ship there? Since they are not named and have the same metal that will not increase the rate of success. I haven't seen this answered or asked anywhere...
Point 3:
Data cores...this will be a problem if each one costs more than a couple of hundred RPs/day. Suppose 1 Data core is 200RPs..and you receive from R&D agents 100 RP/day. This means 2 days = 1 Data Core. Some of the BPCs ask an amount of 15+ data cores...which means at least 30 days only for the Data Cores. If these numbers are correct this will be a huge waiting time and i can't imagine how would it be if each datacore is 2000 RPs.
IMO they should also given as reward for R&D missions and/or other missions. These missions are 50% trading/50% Courier so you buy/deliver things and receive some data cores. That way the R&D missions are no longer useless. And you can always buy them in R&D agents.
Point 4:
I think this is something that doesn't need to be discussed. Is one of those things you get the first time..and you never loose it :D
Point 5:
So these Decryptors will be available through exploration. So we must wait until there to say anything. But they will be lost after the invention so it all depends on what missions you can get these Decryptors and the quantity.
Questions:
1. Can a caldari research agent invent a gallente (or other racial) BPC? I think this would be possible..since the enemies always try to know enemies secrets..
2. If each step adds % of succes....which % are these..taken from Dev blog:
"The chance of succeeding an invention job depends on two main factors:
* All items have a base chance (for instance, ships are harder to invent than modules).
* The skill level of the player. The invention skill is the most important one, but your level in the manufacture skills (Rocket Science, etc.) that the Datacores require and the Encryption skills that the Data Interfaces require also matters."
These number are very important because if invention gives a base success of 10%/invention lvl then this will be a priority. But since a ship BPO have a base chance lower then mods then this should be as a penalty to invention skill itself.
From my point of view even if these answers are the ones i dream these BPCs won't take the value of T2 ships/mods and won't drop by itself the isk neede to purchase T2 ships.
There are too many factors in the air and no certains. We need some numbers...
Cheers
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RobW1
Caldari
Iyen-Oursta Salvage
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Posted - 2006.10.28 01:23:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Chitah
Edited by: Chitah on 27/10/2006 22:56:46
.....
4) You need a Data interface (ok this one could only be available in the new COSMOS regions in 0.0), but you only need one for infinite jobs.
...
Not everyone in the entire multi-verse has access to 0.0, so are these things going to be sold on the market? Are there going to be NO options for getting these through empire, at all?
There is no-way that a single player, or small corp can head off out into 0.0 land (deep in to 0.0?) to find a "complex" to get an item, to then take back to empire to "make" some of this hybrid stuff. That just isn't going to be possible with almost all entry points to 0.0 guarded (rightly so) 23x7.
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Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.10.28 01:54:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 28/10/2006 01:55:12
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 28/10/2006 01:54:35
Originally by: RobW1
Originally by: Chitah
Edited by: Chitah on 27/10/2006 22:56:46
.....
4) You need a Data interface (ok this one could only be available in the new COSMOS regions in 0.0), but you only need one for infinite jobs.
...
Not everyone in the entire multi-verse has access to 0.0, so are these things going to be sold on the market? Are there going to be NO options for getting these through empire, at all?
There is no-way that a single player, or small corp can head off out into 0.0 land (deep in to 0.0?) to find a "complex" to get an item, to then take back to empire to "make" some of this hybrid stuff. That just isn't going to be possible with almost all entry points to 0.0 guarded (rightly so) 23x7.
Worry not, I'm sure some data interfaces will wind their way to empire, even at horrible prices.
So, Yeah, can we at least have crappy limited run data interfaces from lowsec cosmos?
Also why is quoting this makeing my text italic.
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Eilie
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.28 02:16:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Mephysto
Originally by: Eilie
Now than, the important questions are:
1) How many RP does a datacore cost?
2) What is the highest chance of success you can get with max Invention, Encryption, and [Specific] Research skills?
1) this value is not finalised yet, but a few hundred to a couple of thousand RP's for a datacore, with a maximum number being able to be purchased in a given day.
2) varies wildly depending on the bpc and other components used.
Ok, so I'm not helping much with these answers am I?
I got quoted by a dev, I am so honored! (Though I would've perfered if it was Eris!) 
Anyway... with Kali due out in less than a month, I think you guys need to hurry up and decide on the answers to these 2 questions... They are the most important questions and what will either make or break Invention.
I really don't think datacores should be any more than 200 RP each because looking at the BPs, some of them (BCs) need over 30 datacores and even with the best agents you can't get more than 100RP/day (not counting the x2 or x3 for certain fields.)
_______________________________
It's great not being Amarr, isn't it?
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Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.10.28 02:43:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 28/10/2006 02:44:57
Originally by: Eilie
Originally by: Mephysto
Originally by: Eilie
Now than, the important questions are:
1) How many RP does a datacore cost?
2) What is the highest chance of success you can get with max Invention, Encryption, and [Specific] Research skills?
1) this value is not finalised yet, but a few hundred to a couple of thousand RP's for a datacore, with a maximum number being able to be purchased in a given day.
2) varies wildly depending on the bpc and other components used.
Ok, so I'm not helping much with these answers am I?
I got quoted by a dev, I am so honored! (Though I would've perfered if it was Eris!)
Anyway... with Kali due out in less than a month, I think you guys need to hurry up and decide on the answers to these 2 questions... They are the most important questions and what will either make or break Invention.
I really don't think datacores should be any more than 200 RP each because looking at the BPs, some of them (BCs) need over 30 datacores and even with the best agents you can't get more than 100RP/day (not counting the x2 or x3 for certain fields.)
I think a lot of what invention boils down to is getting rid of RP, and the more RP gotten rid of the better. 200 RP is laughable to people as myself who have been researching for years. long-time researchers like myself are more or less the target of invention after all. Also I'm willing to bet that the 'cores for things other than starships will cost proportionally less RP than starship eng' 'cores.
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Eilie
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.10.28 02:51:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Gamer4liff
I think a lot of what invention boils down to is getting rid of RP, and the more RP gotten rid of the better. 200 RP is laughable to people as myself who have been researching for years. long-time researchers like myself are more or less the target of invention after all. Also I'm willing to bet that the 'cores for things other than starships will cost proportionally less RP than starship eng' 'cores.
Well I also have over 200k RP... but if they charge over 1k RP each, all of us research vets will be out of RP within a week or two and than T2 prices will go back up and Invention will be useless... 
_______________________________
It's great not being Amarr, isn't it?
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Ronon Dex
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Posted - 2006.10.28 04:12:00 -
[73]
If the datacores cost any more than a couple hundred RP's each, invention will not be worth the time and effort required to produce anything.
I think the Devs are worried about making invension availlable to the masses resulting in the market being flooded with T2 gear and crashing its value.
At several hundred to a couple thousand RP's per core, it will take months to produce anything, and invension will be kicked out of the airlock to die a cold death in space.
The problem is finding the balance where everyone has the chance to produce T2 gear without flooding the market.
I think a month of research to produce say a 10 run T2 module BPC or a 1 run T2 ship BPC would be reasonable, which would mean a couple hundred RP's per datacore Max
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Illuminaty
ISS Logistics
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.10.28 04:16:00 -
[74]
The cloaks really do need to be inventable. Thats right, I said need.
Once invention gets rolled out, I'm expecting the price of Covert-ops cloaks to skyrocket like gas prices after an election
If the cloak BPO holders find out they can't be invented, I'd not be suprised to see them hit 100mil each.
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Aphotic Raven
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Posted - 2006.10.28 06:21:00 -
[75]
Yes tech 2 ships are awesome, but according to evemon the average base price for HACS is around 18mil, I think fears of the market being flooded are unfounded, it may make 0.0 more hotly contested but i think it needs to be done, watching the tech 2 BPO owners turn the screws hard on the economy to strangle the last bit of isk out before Kali has been saddening, I respect the way that CCP allows people to change their world and scam people and pirate and do whatever they want within the rules... but the inflation problems have to stop. Invention will be good for all, i dont object to some of it being 0.0 based, I think it should be reasonably easy for all those people out there making t1 ships for crappy returns to really get into tech 2 production. The devs have stated that they never expected the lottery/power balance to turn out like it has and i think they should flip it on its head. Come on, base price of ishkur: 3mil Current TQ price: 25mil or more.
The sooner it stops, the sooner PVPers can go back to having fun.
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Kanuo Ashkeron
Eve Defence Force
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.28 09:20:00 -
[76]
When talking about rp/datacore price one has to see the big picture. Of course I am guessing right now, but imagine there are 2000 people researching gallente starship engineering with a good agent (3,4). They are propably getting 150rp at average per day. Which results in 300k rp per day given out in that reseach field.
Let¦s say you need 1000 rp per datacore in that field, EVE gets 300 datacores a day for gallente starship engineering. Now let¦s put around 100 in T2 BC, 100 in HAC and 100 in Frigs, that would result in around 6 T2 BC, around 13 HACs (assuming 8 datacores per Invention job) and 50 T2 frigs (all types). Of course assuming, Mechanical Engineering datacores are available.
I don¦t know the numbers on T2 frig production per day, but from the other two it seems that would increase the production by about 50%.
Once again, this example is based on numbers which are mostly guessed.
Kanuo
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Sandzibarr
A.W.M
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Posted - 2006.10.28 10:54:00 -
[77]
looks like Mech Engineering Datacores are used in almost all the tasty invention jobs for every race.. shame the RP for those agents comes in with ony a 1x multiplier.. time to hit up the only 4 lvl4 agents in that field - and still not be able to cope with the demand for datacores
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PuhBaer
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Posted - 2006.10.28 11:44:00 -
[78]
Anyone has seen the Invention option for BS too?
Does that mean that we soon have T2 BS?
That would be funny
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Sunaria
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Posted - 2006.10.28 11:52:00 -
[79]
Originally by: PuhBaer
Anyone has seen the Invention option for BS too?
Does that mean that we soon have T2 BS?
That would be funny
you can only invent items that are allready in game, you can not just invent new types of BS, keep it realistic please
the main issue stays how much rp/datacore, if that is to high invention will not be used by many. Especially with the notion that invention jobs fail
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Imiarr Timshae
Roid Vandals
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Posted - 2006.10.28 12:45:00 -
[80]
Well well well.
Time for a little rant. (not a bad one )
The new features put in by CCP are always well planned, and well executed. Major flaws are ironed out in early testing, and bug are fixed shortly afterwards.
Grats to CPP for improving the game ect.
However...
I sincerely believe too little is told the the pod pilots of Eve.
We are told by Clover in the blog lots of general stuff. You need this, and that, and you might want to use this, but you can only get that from 0.0.
There are questions to be asked, and answers are not forthcoming. If being withheld for Economic reasons, that is acceptable.
Releasing a blog that is only half what it should be is not.
Getting people all psyched up for invention is not good. We need definition of who, what, where and how.
Thanks.
I'm done.
-Imiarr Timshae-
-Pushing game mechanics since 04/03/2005- |
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Lord Goodberry
Gallente
Madhatters Inc.
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Posted - 2006.10.29 00:07:00 -
[81]
Listen, I doubt the developers are gonna explain every iota of how invention will work while it's still being tested.
Part of playing the test is to help identify issues but I think we need to do a little homework in test to find out what invention is about.
That said I pray that invention does properly reward those who faithfully stuck with and built up R & D progress (as a pose to developing PvP skills) with some ISK producing items.
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Ezra
Gallente
Calista Industries
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Posted - 2006.10.29 00:45:00 -
[82]
Originally by: EvilNate
Originally by: Queen Hades
Sounds good to me but I see another problem.
To make it clear - what I fear is the following:
1. Data interfaces are available via 0.0 only
2. Almost 100% of 0.0 is not accessible for the public, so the big alliances have full control over them
3. No one, besides the alliance guys, ever gets a data interface
4. The alliances kill everybody who tries to smuggle a data interface to those who need it - we all know that there are a lot of strange people in 0.0 who pay EUR 15,- per month just to sit at gates to wait for the strange shuttle or noob ship that lost its way so they can kill it (this is called "defending sovereignity" - I wonder if the big alliance bosses pay them their monthly fee and a full income for this, yes, second job)
5. Tech 2 prices stay high
And this is exactly what will happen. Not that I would ever want a data interface, I don't care about industrial stuff. But I want cheaper tech 2 items - and the only guys that will get them are those who don't need it if Murphys law will prove correct here once again.
On the other hand, maybe the guys @ CCP do know about the politics and the situation in Eve (I'm not sure if they are interested because otherwise there would be much more tech 2 bpos around) and if they add 1 + 1 they will get to the conclusion that we need data interfaces in empire space. 
There are plenty of 0.0 spaces that are not controlled by any alliance, nor can it be controlled by an alliance. Curse, Stain, Geminate, etc. All the new ones that are coming out too. Once you are in these regoins its not too bad. Just get a scout for scouting camps and you good to go, or a covops for moving stuff, there are plenty of ways of going about doing.
But like I said, created a contract and make it some one elses problem.
Nate.
Soverignty != control
In fact, some of the regions which have NPC sovereignty (such as Fountain) are very popular with alliances because it means that they don't have to worry about maintaining sov, they only need to shoot intruders. In fact, because of this, while sovereignty is not possible in such areas, *control* is EASIER.
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Ezra Cornell
pe0n, Calista Industries |
Elenit
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Posted - 2006.10.29 08:53:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Sunariayou can only invent items that are allready in game, you can not just invent new types of BS, keep it realistic please[/quote
That may be the case with how things currently are - but why not allow invention of composite modules?
Surely with decent skills, the right tools, research agents and time - you should be able to invent something that doeasn't exist already? Take an invented sensor booster and an invented target painter and, presto, you get a sensor painter. The attributes might be worse than the individual modules at first - more research, a few more prototypes and you get something that's better.
Some thoughts:
1) It's a logical extension of ship riggs - therefore not a giant leap from something that exists already
2) You would end up with crud on the market but these could help others improve on what somebody has started
3) You'd end up with novel items
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Amaron Ghant
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.29 11:21:00 -
[84]
Invention. Looks interesting.
Another prod to breach the womb of safesec and head to 0.0 Not a bad thing in and of itself.
Whether it has a marked effect in reducing the depredations of the t2 ship manufacturers? who knows. Only time will tell.
I¦,m looking forward to seeing it in action, but I think i¦ll wait a few months for R.A to seed the jita market with data interfaces before I join in.
Meanwhile time to acquire isk to buy some of the cool new toys when they get released.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.10.29 13:58:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Gamer4liff
Originally by: Queen Hades
Problem with invention:
1. People in 0.0 don't need it, they already have the BPOs
2. People in empire space would need it but they can't use it because you need to offer yourself for ganking by those selfrighteous nbsi - snobs to get some of the items
3. So it won't solve the problem with 400 million isk for a HAC and stuff
I think the way it is implemented now one can call it a barrel burst. It solves not a single problem and it is not usable for those who would need it.
My solution:
Make all items for it available in empire space, maybe the datacores (or whatever it is that comes from 0.0) with limited runs or so. But please do anything to stop that extreme advantages old players with tech 2 bpos have over the rest of us and bring the tech 2 ship and item prices back to a reasonable level.
Make invention something for everyone, not only for a small elite that already has enough of everything. Thanks. 
Agreeing with this, putting them in 0.0 only will really solve nothing.
Huh?
I don't know a single T2 production corp based in 0.0. They're all empire corporations: T2HL, Lacuna Viators, FIN, AATP, H-TI, NAGA...
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2006.10.29 17:51:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 29/10/2006 17:50:52
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Gamer4liff
Originally by: Queen Hades
Problem with invention:
1. People in 0.0 don't need it, they already have the BPOs
2. People in empire space would need it but they can't use it because you need to offer yourself for ganking by those selfrighteous nbsi - snobs to get some of the items
3. So it won't solve the problem with 400 million isk for a HAC and stuff
I think the way it is implemented now one can call it a barrel burst. It solves not a single problem and it is not usable for those who would need it.
My solution:
Make all items for it available in empire space, maybe the datacores (or whatever it is that comes from 0.0) with limited runs or so. But please do anything to stop that extreme advantages old players with tech 2 bpos have over the rest of us and bring the tech 2 ship and item prices back to a reasonable level.
Make invention something for everyone, not only for a small elite that already has enough of everything. Thanks.
Agreeing with this, putting them in 0.0 only will really solve nothing.
Huh?
I don't know a single T2 production corp based in 0.0. They're all empire corporations: T2HL, Lacuna Viators, FIN, AATP, H-TI, NAGA...
Actually I changed my mind on that when I realised that it was only the infinite use-data interfaces that came from 0.0.
But still, it would have served only the 0.0 alliance playerbase if all of the needed stuff for invention came from 0.0. Prices would remain high due to hard-to-get parts in 0.0 costing a lot. Then invention wouldn't be profitable at all for lowsec/empire folk who couldn't get the parts cheaply.
all in all, I think ccp's invention plan is fine right now tbh, although I am a tad bit worried on the cost of data interfaces.
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Goktar illiat
Gallente
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.10.29 18:42:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Excremento
I think its time for me to go buy a stabber BPO and start researching it. Then get a bunch of copies ready.
with luck you'll find a avaible research slot in 10-15days time :(
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Loraen
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Posted - 2006.10.29 19:21:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Eilie
The Encryption Skills you get from Hacking/Archelogy which is done in hi-sec COSMOS and completely safe.
Safe? Maybe from players. Try hacking cans in a sawrm of BS whit a BC.
Now they go for 100 millions each, probably they will rise in price.
You forget that they said the renamed (serpentis = gallente etc) encryption books will also be available from profession sites that will be located with the exploration system. As to what sec these exist in, is unknown at the moment.
My expectation is for the encryption books to drop in price below 100M soon enough, unless you can get them only from 0.0 profession sites (or the old way of COSMOS hacking).
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Arcticblue2
Gallente
Nordic Freelancers inc
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Posted - 2006.10.29 20:00:00 -
[89]
I sure hope they don't give these things to 0.0 people, I am thinking abouth those infinitve dataencryptions...
I live in low sec most of my time, if anything they should give these to low sec instead... alot more danger and they should start to NOT force people into 0.0....
I am already almost NOT playing this game, I like production, research and stuff... if it turns out that I can't do this inventions stuff... my subscription is out.
----------------------------------------------
"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
1 cor. |
Xianthar
Sha Kharn Corp
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.10.30 01:07:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Queen Hades
Problem with invention:
1. People in 0.0 don't need it, they already have the BPOs
2. People in empire space would need it but they can't use it because you need to offer yourself for ganking by those selfrighteous nbsi - snobs to get some of the items
3. So it won't solve the problem with 400 million isk for a HAC and stuff
I think the way it is implemented now one can call it a barrel burst. It solves not a single problem and it is not usable for those who would need it.
My solution:
Make all items for it available in empire space, maybe the datacores (or whatever it is that comes from 0.0) with limited runs or so. But please do anything to stop that extreme advantages old players with tech 2 bpos have over the rest of us and bring the tech 2 ship and item prices back to a reasonable level.
Make invention something for everyone, not only for a small elite that already has enough of everything. Thanks.
won't work, you make everything available in empire and i'll just start an alt to do it full time.
NBSI snobs FTW!!!!!!
don't avoid the flashy red, learn to love it.
-xian
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