EVE Search - **** +5% Kinetic missile damage/ level.

All Channels

Ships and Modules

**** +5% Kinetic missile damage/ level.

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Sakura Yoshimitsu	Posted - 2006.10.31 03:01:00 - [1] Edited by: Sakura Yoshimitsu on 31/10/2006 03:03:22 Isn't the whole point of missiles is that you trade instant damage for the ability to chose the damage type? How do you make one missile do more damage of one type then another if the missiles have the same warhead size/amount of damage inflicted? Does the kinetic warhead just somehow get miraculously bigger when fired out of the ship with the bonus? Amarr players complain all the time about being pigeon-holed into EM/Thermal damage why is it okay for the same to happen to Caldari? If your going to continue to remove all of the ROF bonuses from all the ships one by one, do the same to all the other races. Gallente only ever get Thermal Missile damage bonuses, Amarr get EM only damage bonuses, and Minmatar only get an Explosive missile damage bonus. If the problem is that 5% ROF is too much, then try the other 4 points of percentage to make it balanced, not this branded racial damage. {edited title. The swearing filter missed the f-bomb?)
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2006.10.31 03:13:00 - [2] Originally by: Sakura Yoshimitsu Edited by: Sakura Yoshimitsu on 31/10/2006 03:03:22 Isn't the whole point of missiles is that you trade instant damage for the ability to chose the damage type? How do you make one missile do more damage of one type then another if the missiles have the same warhead size/amount of damage inflicted? Does the kinetic warhead just somehow get miraculously bigger when fired out of the ship with the bonus? Amarr players complain all the time about being pigeon-holed into EM/Thermal damage why is it okay for the same to happen to Caldari? If your going to continue to remove all of the ROF bonuses from all the ships one by one, do the same to all the other races. Gallente only ever get Thermal Missile damage bonuses, Amarr get EM only damage bonuses, and Minmatar only get an Explosive missile damage bonus. If the problem is that 5% ROF is too much, then try the other 4 points of percentage to make it balanced, not this branded racial damage. {edited title. The swearing filter missed the f-bomb?) 1) When have you ever seen a min/gal/amarr ship with missile bonuses? I think theres maybe 1 per race. 2) No, you sacrifice the ability to deal instant damage for the ability to always hit anything at any speed. (Crazy fast intys and torps excepted) 3) Every other race has specific damage types, why shouldn't you? CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too.
Sakura Yoshimitsu	Posted - 2006.10.31 03:26:00 - [3] So if I replace "5% bonus Drones Damage" with "5% bonus thermal Drone damage" to all Gallente droneships that would be acceptable for you?
Siakel	Posted - 2006.10.31 03:29:00 - [4] There's a difference between 5% and 10%. Also, all the other drones already do lower DPS, and changing it to +Thermal would leave those other drones even further behind than they already are.
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2006.10.31 03:46:00 - [5] Originally by: Sakura Yoshimitsu So if I replace "5% bonus Drones Damage" with "5% bonus thermal Drone damage" to all Gallente droneships that would be acceptable for you? Drones already have a built in damage progression, i.e. thermal>kinetic>explosive>em. Missles on the other hand do the same damage across the board.
Futuri Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2006.10.31 03:46:00 - [6] Although I agree that the kinetic damage bonus isn't as good as a generic dps bonus, changing 5% drone damage to 10% thermal drone damage is a boost not a nerf :p
Siakel	Posted - 2006.10.31 04:13:00 - [7] Originally by: Futuri Although I agree that the kinetic damage bonus isn't as good as a generic dps bonus, changing 5% drone damage to 10% thermal drone damage is a boost not a nerf :p There was never any 5% drone damage bonus. On any ship. What there was, was a +1 drone/level bonus. Which is the exact same as our current +10%. The Thermal damage that got changed would have been hugely nerfing their use of any other drones, as they'd lose a huge chunk of DPS from what they had previously, to what they'd have had after the change.
Shaala Caldari Singularity Services	Posted - 2006.10.31 05:17:00 - [8] precision light missiles... what a laugh when flying at 12000 m/s :D "Missiles hit anything at any speed, except Torps vs superfast ceptors", you sure made me laugh ^^
Aeaus Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.10.31 05:35:00 - [9] Originally by: Sakura Yoshimitsu Edited by: Sakura Yoshimitsu on 31/10/2006 03:03:22 Isn't the whole point of missiles is that you trade instant damage for the ability to chose the damage type? How do you make one missile do more damage of one type then another if the missiles have the same warhead size/amount of damage inflicted? Does the kinetic warhead just somehow get miraculously bigger when fired out of the ship with the bonus? Amarr players complain all the time about being pigeon-holed into EM/Thermal damage why is it okay for the same to happen to Caldari? If your going to continue to remove all of the ROF bonuses from all the ships one by one, do the same to all the other races. Gallente only ever get Thermal Missile damage bonuses, Amarr get EM only damage bonuses, and Minmatar only get an Explosive missile damage bonus. If the problem is that 5% ROF is too much, then try the other 4 points of percentage to make it balanced, not this branded racial damage. {edited title. The swearing filter missed the f-bomb?) Yea. You guys get to lose a whole big of 25% Damage on a great damage type while the Amarr have to deal with an immense EM bias. Caldari have no right to complain about being weak during Kali. Last Weeks Signature
Sakura Yoshimitsu	Posted - 2006.10.31 05:35:00 - [10] Originally by: Siakel The Thermal damage that got changed would have been hugely nerfing their use of any other drones, as they'd lose a huge chunk of DPS from what they had previously, to what they'd have had after the change. So its just okay to do it to Caldari Ship then? Thats the exact same reason I don't like Kinetic damage bonuses because it forces me to use that damage type and makes the others less useful to anyone using that ship. The Caldari's racial weapons are Rails and Missiles. Gallente are Blasters and Drones. We both do Thermal/Kinetic for our guns and drone/missiles do any damage you want provided you loaded the proper drone/ammo. So why is it okay to put Caldari's ability to inflict any damage they want but not okay for the Gallente's Drones?
Sakura Yoshimitsu	Posted - 2006.10.31 05:38:00 - [11] Exactly Aeaus, There should be an ability to vary your damage type no matter what race your flying to some degree. Like maybe the Mircowave Crystals inflict almost all thermal or something, not 2/3's
Albrecht Wassenar Caldari Tsurokigaarai Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.10.31 06:15:00 - [12] I have found that a ship with a racial damage bonuses to be nigh worthless seeing as how most, if not all "good" PVP ships all have generic DPS bonuses or a rate of fire bonus. Either make everyone stick to their racial damage types, or make the bonuses apply to each races appropriate weapon type, not damage. This half and half buisness needs to go. ------------------------------------- KD Director of Foreign Relations ------------------------------------- Join "TKI-net"/"Directivenet" for more information
Lucian Corvinus Gallente Expert Systems	Posted - 2006.10.31 10:05:00 - [13] Originally by: Aeaus Yea. You guys get to lose a whole big of 25% Damage on a great damage type while the Amarr have to deal with an immense EM bias. Caldari have no right to complain about being weak during Kali. Well actually gallente drone ships should have the same restrictions, that is bonus to only thermal drone damage, that would only be fair right? And caldari complaining about kali, lol. ECM is getting nerfed and missiles are getting nerfed, what's not to like. But atleast they are getting the rokh so they can use those mighty 425mm T2, to bad over 60% of eve's population are either gallente or caldari, and using those guns. I'm gonna love buying them at 20-25 mil/ gun unless inventions really can do something about that.
Frools No Quarter. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.31 10:28:00 - [14] Originally by: Azerrad InExile Drones already have a built in damage progression, i.e. thermal>kinetic>explosive>em. Missles on the other hand do the same damage across the board. quoting this because most people seem to have missed it weapon systems that can 'choose damage type' projectiles: reduced damage depending on which ammo you use, does not let you choose 100dps kin or 100dps thermal missiles: for the most part you get kin bonuses, so you lose dps if you switch damage type drones: thermal drones do the most damage, em the least, switching damage type changes your dps missiles already have some huge advantages over other weapon system, no need for more
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.10.31 23:41:00 - [15] Originally by: Vicious Phoenix 3) Every other race has specific damage types, why shouldn't you? Were you around when tux/TomB were going to make all Gallente drone damage bonuses only be to thermal? Did you see the insane amount of yelling about it? There's about about 30x as much when it comes to kinetic-only bonuses, spread over a much longer period of time. Do Amarr get EM-only as their bonus to dmg? no, it's just turret damage, same with minmatar, and Gallente, and Gallente drone bonuses to damage are universal. Caldari are the only race who get a single damage-type for their bonuses. Caldari 'specific damage' is kinetic, that's fine and dandy. That doesn't mean that they should be held back in a way no other ship is. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.10.31 23:43:00 - [16] Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Originally by: Aeaus Yea. You guys get to lose a whole big of 25% Damage on a great damage type while the Amarr have to deal with an immense EM bias. Caldari have no right to complain about being weak during Kali. Well actually gallente drone ships should have the same restrictions, that is bonus to only thermal drone damage, that would only be fair right? And caldari complaining about kali, lol. ECM is getting nerfed and missiles are getting nerfed, what's not to like. But atleast they are getting the rokh so they can use those mighty 425mm T2, to bad over 60% of eve's population are either gallente or caldari, and using those guns. I'm gonna love buying them at 20-25 mil/ gun unless inventions really can do something about that. We also get the drake, and that thing is going to smoke any HAC that flies within 10km on it. Heck it might kill soem badly setup CBCs too. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Areconus Caldari Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.31 23:44:00 - [17] Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Originally by: Sakura Yoshimitsu Edited by: Sakura Yoshimitsu on 31/10/2006 03:03:22 Isn't the whole point of missiles is that you trade instant damage for the ability to chose the damage type? How do you make one missile do more damage of one type then another if the missiles have the same warhead size/amount of damage inflicted? Does the kinetic warhead just somehow get miraculously bigger when fired out of the ship with the bonus? Amarr players complain all the time about being pigeon-holed into EM/Thermal damage why is it okay for the same to happen to Caldari? If your going to continue to remove all of the ROF bonuses from all the ships one by one, do the same to all the other races. Gallente only ever get Thermal Missile damage bonuses, Amarr get EM only damage bonuses, and Minmatar only get an Explosive missile damage bonus. If the problem is that 5% ROF is too much, then try the other 4 points of percentage to make it balanced, not this branded racial damage. {edited title. The swearing filter missed the f-bomb?) 1) When have you ever seen a min/gal/amarr ship with missile bonuses? I think theres maybe 1 per race. 2) No, you sacrifice the ability to deal instant damage for the ability to always hit anything at any speed. (Crazy fast intys and torps excepted) 3) Every other race has specific damage types, why shouldn't you? Why shouldn't we have specific dmg types? Maybe because not only do our missiles do less dps than any other race (t2 excluded, which is getting a nerf), they also take lots of time to hit something at range Gloria Stitz- "Try not to bring reality in to these forums Otherwise we might take the game seriously"
Albrecht Wassenar Caldari Tsurokigaarai Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.10.31 23:58:00 - [18] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Vicious Phoenix 3) Every other race has specific damage types, why shouldn't you? Were you around when tux/TomB were going to make all Gallente drone damage bonuses only be to thermal? Did you see the insane amount of yelling about it? There's about about 30x as much when it comes to kinetic-only bonuses, spread over a much longer period of time. Do Amarr get EM-only as their bonus to dmg? no, it's just turret damage, same with minmatar, and Gallente, and Gallente drone bonuses to damage are universal. Caldari are the only race who get a single damage-type for their bonuses. Caldari 'specific damage' is kinetic, that's fine and dandy. That doesn't mean that they should be held back in a way no other ship is. My point exactly. Lets get everyone on the same, playing field, not some on one and the rest on the other. ------------------------------------- Join "TKI-net"/"Directivenet" for more information
Seria Tuanton	Posted - 2006.11.01 00:02:00 - [19] I'd just like to say having flown all the races in the game to a good standard (tech 2 guns etc) Caldari's missile bonus in my opinion doesnt need to change, I can see your reasoning but think about it, all gallente do with their guns (which on many of their ships is the main weapon) is thermal and kin, similarly amarr only do Em and thermal. So if someones tanking you for 65% resists + on all stats, whats the difference between using one damage type or using four? I'm primarily a minmatar pilot and while its handy to have all the damage types for missions, in gang pvp (which is the best part of the game imo) where most people are tanked anyway it honestly makes no difference to if your doing four damage types or one, for example my armor tank on a certain ship is 71.556%exp/73%kin/75.236%therm/78%EM so if your doing 25% additional to kinetic rather than having an all round missile damage bonus when on bigger ships especially your garunteed a hit so to speak. I personally just dont feel caldari should be made any better at this stage in time. My fully tanked phoon got dropped to 10% armor in like 45 second by two ravens only survived because my friend brought some jammers just in time (which might I add while they are getting a nerf in kali, they still work nicely). So please don't change it unless it becomes a serious problem (which it won't) after kali
Scorpyn Caldari The Patriot Pact	Posted - 2006.11.01 00:23:00 - [20] Edited by: Scorpyn on 01/11/2006 00:26:38 Originally by: Vicious Phoenix 2) No, you sacrifice the ability to deal instant damage for the ability to always hit anything at any speed. (Crazy fast intys and torps excepted) I'm kind of tired of seeing that argument being made by the turret users all the time. If you consider a hit of 0.6 enough to be useful then you've got a very crappy shield regen. Originally by: Malthros Zenobia We also get the drake, and that thing is going to smoke any HAC that flies within 10km on it. Not likely, the current assault missile (or whatever they've decided to call the heavy torps) have the wrong stats - it'll probably have a lot lower damage output in the end.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.11.01 00:41:00 - [21] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Vicious Phoenix 3) Every other race has specific damage types, why shouldn't you? Were you around when tux/TomB were going to make all Gallente drone damage bonuses only be to thermal? Did you see the insane amount of yelling about it? There's about about 30x as much when it comes to kinetic-only bonuses, spread over a much longer period of time. Do Amarr get EM-only as their bonus to dmg? no, it's just turret damage, same with minmatar, and Gallente, and Gallente drone bonuses to damage are universal. Caldari are the only race who get a single damage-type for their bonuses. Caldari 'specific damage' is kinetic, that's fine and dandy. That doesn't mean that they should be held back in a way no other ship is. Agreed. Perhaps make it like drones, so kinetic missiles do the most base damage (by a slight margin). -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Talthrus Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.01 00:48:00 - [22] There is one gigantic flaw in your view right now: All missiles do the EXACT same amount of damage with the same EXACT stats. Drone damage varies by damage type in addition to turrets moving along their damage type spectrum with the different ranges. If you want a blanket missile damage bonus then missile damage must vary by type. Kinetic will be the most damaging and will be = to the current bonus damage. The other missiles will have to have varying degrees of damage. Take a look at drones right now. The damage bonus favors a certain type (namely thermal) because they do the highest base damage out of the drones. As if Caldari weren't already overpowered enough ... ----------------------
Albrecht Wassenar Caldari Tsurokigaarai Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.11.01 01:25:00 - [23] Then by all means do so, at least then we are varying the damage done by missiles in the appropriate and logical way instead of "for some reason, this type of missile works better on this ship." The platform shouldnt have any control on how much damage the missle does as that is determined by the warhead payload and how well the missile tracks. Now it can be argued that the platform can vary the DPS through better guidance to the target (ala better precision), but that is a logical way to increase damage instead of "this one is more effective because we say so" but increasing precision as a general to increase damage would make them too effective. The Caldari are better at using missiles than anyone else. Why can't we be more proficient with them in ways that make sense (i.e. we can fire them faster and more accurately than others) instead of doing more damage with the exact same warhead that everyone else uses. ------------------------------------- Join "TKI-net"/"Directivenet" for more information
Sakura Yoshimitsu	Posted - 2006.11.18 10:51:00 - [24] Looks like this "bonus" has claimed another victim. R.I.P Drake
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation The Corporation Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.18 11:06:00 - [25] Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Originally by: Aeaus Yea. You guys get to lose a whole big of 25% Damage on a great damage type while the Amarr have to deal with an immense EM bias. Caldari have no right to complain about being weak during Kali. Well actually gallente drone ships should have the same restrictions, that is bonus to only thermal drone damage, that would only be fair right? Thermal drones do 39% more damage than EM drones. If Gallente drone ships got restricted to thermal drones only, then the damage modifier of T1 drones need to be boosted to 1.6 for ALL drones (and Amarr drone ships would have to have an EM drone damage bonus only). Additionally, all drones would have to have more or less equal stats, particularly the velocity and tracking stats would need to be increased. OP, come again when it looks like this: 1. Missile damage has been reduced to 62.5% of original. 2. Kinetic missiles have a damage modifier of 1.6 (but are slowest) 3. Thermal missiles have a damage modifier of 1.45 4. Explosive missiles have a damage modifier of 1.3 (and are fastest) 5. EM missiles have a damage modifier of 1.15 (but are sturdier and require more dfenders/smartbombs to take out) 6. Stealth Bombers have been changed away from racial damage. - EVE is sick.
Severa Crest Nomina Sacra Sapientia Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.18 11:18:00 - [26] Make missiles do mixed damage types - problem solved
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.18 11:23:00 - [27] Well, I've already posted a whine (here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=427482) IMO either missiles are intentionally similar - every heavy missile identical, just with a different colour warhead, or they're intended to be different. In the latter case it still makes more sense to me to vary the _missile_ rather than just having one 'type' stand out as 25% more damaging, when fired from a caracal. I don't think it needs to be a big difference, but I'm thinking that EVE would be better off if there were reasons to choose any of the missile designs _aside_ from damage type. As it is, there's a measure of variance in drones. I like that, it makes things more interesting. I think missiles should do the same. I don't mind either way, if the aim is racial damage variance, but I do think that 100%/80%/80%/80% is far less interesting than 100%/90%/80%/70% - especially when you have other factors to 'balance' the damage of the missiles, such that e.g. the explosive ones might do lower damage than kinetic, but might be better at hitting smaller targets.
Electric Cucumber Amarr coracao ardente Sani Khal'Vecna	Posted - 2006.11.18 11:23:00 - [28] kestrel and caracal have kinetic bonus = fine drake = omg whine fest..yeah right
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.18 11:24:00 - [29] Originally by: Electric Cucumber kestrel and caracal have kinetic bonus = fine drake = omg whine fest..yeah right I dislike seeing kestrel and caracal with 'kinetic bonus' only too, and would like to see that changed. However I figure there's more chance that the Drake still isn't 'set in stone' than the older existing ships will be rejigged.
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.11.18 13:33:00 - [30] Originally by: nexvis Edited by: nexvis on 18/11/2006 13:32:29 Originally by: Shaala precision light missiles... what a laugh when flying at 12000 m/s :D "Missiles hit anything at any speed, except Torps vs superfast ceptors", you sure made me laugh ^^ So quit expecting to omgpwn people with snake sets and faction fit crows/crusaders worth more than every ship you've ever owned combined. the 'average' interceptor is about 4000m/s, a 'good' ceptor pilot is approaching 4500. uber is above 5k. if you spent more than 3 hours on missile skills, you should be able to hit them (obviously not for full damage, but too bad, nobody wlse hits them for full damage if any at all). anything faster is just rich people with expensive toys, and they paid a lot of isk for you to not be able to touch them. Quit crying. qft
Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.18 13:41:00 - [31] Originally by: nexvis Edited by: nexvis on 18/11/2006 13:32:29 Originally by: Shaala precision light missiles... what a laugh when flying at 12000 m/s :D "Missiles hit anything at any speed, except Torps vs superfast ceptors", you sure made me laugh ^^ So quit expecting to omgpwn people with snake sets and faction fit crows/crusaders worth more than every ship you've ever owned combined. the 'average' interceptor is about 4000m/s, a 'good' ceptor pilot is approaching 4500. uber is above 5k. if you spent more than 3 hours on missile skills, you should be able to hit them (obviously not for full damage, but too bad, nobody wlse hits them for full damage if any at all). anything faster is just rich people with expensive toys, and they paid a lot of isk for you to not be able to touch them. Quit crying. Quoted for absolute truth. I hate it when people, mostly missile whiners make it look like every single interceptor is going around flying 10km/s+.
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.18 15:25:00 - [32] Edited by: Grey Area on 18/11/2006 15:27:21 Originally by: nexvis the 'average' interceptor is about 4000m/s, a 'good' ceptor pilot is approaching 4500. uber is above 5k. Missile damage calcs for your "good" interceptor (using sig radius 27) (edit: apologies, I typed "average" the first time) Rocket 10.12 pts Standard 1.09 pts Heavy 0.25 pts Cruise 0.07 pts Torp 0.02 pts And again, using sig radius 135 (assuming they have to use a MWD to get this fast...I don't know, I don't fly one) Rocket 10.12 pts Standard 1.51 pts Heavy 1.04 pts Cruise 0.38 pts Torp 0.11 pts Above assumes Warhead Upgrades, Guided Missile Precision and Target Navigation Prediction all at level 5. Missiles always hit. Joy. --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.11.18 15:28:00 - [33] Originally by: Grey Area Originally by: nexvis the 'average' interceptor is about 4000m/s, a 'good' ceptor pilot is approaching 4500. uber is above 5k. Missile damage calcs for your "average" interceptor (using sig radius 27) Rocket 10.12 pts Standard 1.09 pts Heavy 0.25 pts Cruise 0.07 pts Torp 0.02 pts And again, using sig radius 135 (assuming they have to use a MWD to get this fast...I don't know, I don't fly one) Rocket 10.12 pts Standard 1.51 pts Heavy 1.04 pts Cruise 0.38 pts Torp 0.11 pts Above assumes Warhead Upgrades, Guided Missile Precision and Target Navigation Prediction all at level 5. Missiles always hit. Joy. That's 0.11 more points of damage than any large, medium and most small turrets will ever hope to achieve against a ship moving quick. Until you've tried hitting stuff with turrets, keep your opinions to yourself. _______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues!
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.18 15:39:00 - [34] Edited by: Aramendel on 18/11/2006 15:41:01 Originally by: Grey Area And again, using sig radius 135 (assuming they have to use a MWD to get this fast...I don't know, I don't fly one) Yes, they do have to, and in this case it would be a sig radius of 162. The sig (and speed) bonus of MWDs is on top of the already exisiting one, so a sig bonus of +500% means a sig 6 times as big. And if they are using faction MWDs (which are needed for the higher speeds) they approach on 7 times the sig.
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.11.18 15:51:00 - [35] The kinetic bonus isn't crappy, it's balanced. Drones have different stats, with the same damage bonus. Missiles have the same stats, with differing damage bonus. Net result = pretty much equal and balanced. And for those whining about the Drake. Have you actually run the numbers on the damage? Actual fits for Tier 2 bc, T2 ammo + 150m/s transversal 300m/s speed Drake is the second most damaging BC past 15km. Most damaging past 25km. As Caldari are the long range race this is very appropriate. Drake still looks great, and looks pretty darn balanced now. Nyxus Originally by: keepiru I cant imagine a stronger signal of how pants 3/4 of new BS are than the fact that Matari will be training Amarr BS and Amarrians will be training Large Projectile to use the same ship
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Pirates of Destruction Union Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.11.18 15:52:00 - [36] The op is right, it's stupid to pigeon-hole the Caldari ships with a single damage type. After all, my Purifier gets to switch....wait, that's an EM bonus....the Malediction...hmm EM bonus again....Heretic.....crap, there's that EM bonus. I know, I'll switch to the Hound....nope, EXP bonus. But still, it would be unfair for the Caldari to get bonus to one damage type. They shouldn't be forced to switch races to get a different damage bonus just because everyone else does. By the way, would anyone care to tell me which ships can outrun missiles besides the Interceptor class? Just in case you wonder, missiles are my primary damage dealers, followed by LASARS!!!! --- Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.11.18 16:02:00 - [37] Originally by: Sakura Yoshimitsu Originally by: Siakel The Thermal damage that got changed would have been hugely nerfing their use of any other drones, as they'd lose a huge chunk of DPS from what they had previously, to what they'd have had after the change. So its just okay to do it to Caldari Ship then? Thats the exact same reason I don't like Kinetic damage bonuses because it forces me to use that damage type and makes the others less useful to anyone using that ship. The Caldari's racial weapons are Rails and Missiles. Gallente are Blasters and Drones. We both do Thermal/Kinetic for our guns and drone/missiles do any damage you want provided you loaded the proper drone/ammo. So why is it okay to put Caldari's ability to inflict any damage they want but not okay for the Gallente's Drones? if you keep comparing it to drones... fine That would mean that the missile dmg would have to be changed 450 kinetic torp 400 therm torp 350 explosive torp 300 EM torp then you can have your ''25% bonus to all missiles'' bonus
Lucian Corvinus Gallente Expert Systems	Posted - 2006.11.18 16:07:00 - [38] Originally by: Old Geeza That's 0.11 more points of damage than any large, medium and most small turrets will ever hope to achieve against a ship moving quick. Until you've tried hitting stuff with turrets, keep your opinions to yourself. Yeah, cause every single rookie ship isn't able to passive tank those might 0.11 in damage. That damage IS the equivalent to a miss from a turret. Only difference is that the turret is actually able to wreck that ship with a single lucky shot.
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.11.18 16:09:00 - [39] Actually, it is more restrictive to Caldari than anyone else. Take Amarr, for example. All of their weapons do Em and Thermal damage, to varying degrees. If they get a 5%/level damage bonus, it is not just to EM damage, but to Em and Thermal damage. When they change crystals to more thermal damage, they also increase the thermal damage bonus. Currently, Caldari are the only race that gets restricted to receiving a damage bonus to one type of damage. you do not see gallente with a 5%/level hybrid/blaster thermal damage and 10%/level drone thermal damage. You do not see Amarr with 5%/level damage boost for EM laser damage, and you do not see minmatar getting a 5%/level boost to explosive damage.
Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.11.18 16:10:00 - [40] Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Originally by: Old Geeza That's 0.11 more points of damage than any large, medium and most small turrets will ever hope to achieve against a ship moving quick. Until you've tried hitting stuff with turrets, keep your opinions to yourself. Yeah, cause every single rookie ship isn't able to passive tank those might 0.11 in damage. That damage IS the equivalent to a miss from a turret. Only difference is that the turret is actually able to wreck that ship with a single lucky shot. Wrong. Wrecking shots changed ages ago from being completely random to being based on the tracking formula - if you now have to hit to wreck. _______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues!
Old Geeza The Retirement Home	Posted - 2006.11.18 16:16:00 - [41] Originally by: Rafein Actually, it is more restrictive to Caldari than anyone else. Take Amarr, for example. All of their weapons do Em and Thermal damage, to varying degrees. If they get a 5%/level damage bonus, it is not just to EM damage, but to Em and Thermal damage. When they change crystals to more thermal damage, they also increase the thermal damage bonus. Currently, Caldari are the only race that gets restricted to receiving a damage bonus to one type of damage. you do not see gallente with a 5%/level hybrid/blaster thermal damage and 10%/level drone thermal damage. You do not see Amarr with 5%/level damage boost for EM laser damage, and you do not see minmatar getting a 5%/level boost to explosive damage. Drones have racial damage implemented directly - Thermal > Kinetic > Explosive > EM. Amarr have racial damage implemented in their crystals which are already high-EM Minmatar have racial damage implemented in their primary T1 ammos and all of their T2 ammos (which are high-explosive). For Caldari to recieve a flat 25% damage bonus, missile damage types would have to be changed so Kinetic is as it is now, then followed by Explosive, EM and then Thermal. While you're at it, switch Kinetic and EM drone damage around as Amarr actually have drone bays and some drone ships, where-as Caldari are as about as anti-drone as possible. Drones: Thermal (Gallente, the kings of drones), EM (Amarr, also have drone ships), Explosive (Minmatar, steal other people's technology and make it crap), Kinetic (Caldari, omg you people have drone bays?!?) Missiles: Kinetic (Caldari, we win EVE), Explosive (Minmatar, we have lots of redundant missile points), EM (Amarr, KHANID MK II!!!!), Thermal (Gallente, we only have missile bonuses when Tuxford gets drunk). _______________________________________ Sign the petition against jump queues!
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.11.18 20:05:00 - [42] People like to say that the Caldari being able to swap damage type is overpowered, yet they fail to realize missile DPs cannot compare to turret DPS. When was the last time you saw a non-capital missile boat do near/over 1k DPS excluding a rage raven with a dedicated huginn support ship? Never. Now what about turret boats? Quite a few, hell Neutron mega could do over 1k DPS before factoring in drones. But wait, those missiles, doing 60% the DPS, are overpowered because they can swap damage types. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Aequitas Veritas TAOSP Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.11.18 20:43:00 - [43] Originally by: Old Geeza That's 0.11 more points of damage than any large, medium and most small turrets will ever hope to achieve against a ship moving quick. Until you've tried hitting stuff with turrets, keep your opinions to yourself. Congratulations! You win a newly fitted Caldari Navy Raven for your outstanding participation in this thread! "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.18 21:16:00 - [44] Originally by: Old Geeza That's 0.11 more points of damage than any large, medium and most small turrets will ever hope to achieve against a ship moving quick. If you can't tank (0.11 x 6 = 0.66) points of damage every 10 seconds or so then you're a fairly sorry state. The limit is "Can I outdo the tank?". Missiles can't. Turrets can't. I NEVER tried to imply that turrets were in any way better to missiles. Originally by: Old Geeza Until you've tried hitting stuff with turrets, keep your opinions to yourself. Since when were simple figures an opinion? And I have all the support gunner skills to level 5 (except for two at level 4) and quite often fly an Apoc. As I said, under the conditions given, I NEVER tried to portray that turrets were better...just that missiles suck equally as much. --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2006.11.18 21:26:00 - [45] Originally by: Grey Area And again, using sig radius 135 (assuming they have to use a MWD to get this fast...I don't know, I don't fly one) yeah.... learn your enemy and you will be able to counter him. You think SHOULD be able to take that inty down w/ just your missiles and trained up to lvl 3s or somethin? Do what turret users do, buy a webber/target painter, use webby drones, bring along a tackler etc, etc, etc, etc..... weapons dont kill peole. PILOTS do
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.18 22:26:00 - [46] Originally by: HankMurphy yeah.... learn your enemy and you will be able to counter him. You think SHOULD be able to take that inty down w/ just your missiles and trained up to lvl 3s or somethin? Do what turret users do, buy a webber/target painter, use webby drones, bring along a tackler etc, etc, etc, etc..... weapons dont kill peole. PILOTS do You're very***y for a man who has completely missed the point. First, so you know YOUR opponent, here are my SKILLS Second, THIS is the point I was arguing against; Originally by:** nexvis if you spent more than 3 hours on missile skills, you should be able to hit them (obviously not for full damage, but too bad, nobody wlse hits them for full damage if any at all) There's a lot of store set by "able to hit them". I just wanted to post cold, hard figures about how pathetic those "hits" were. And to correct my earlier error; I decided your advice was sound, so I went out and bought a Gist A-type MWD for my Malediction. I've got not other speed boosting effects on the ship, and only the following speed boosting implants; Slot 7: +3% to velocity Slot 8: +5% to AB and MWD speed boost Slot 10: +3% to AB and MWD speed boost (I don't know if this pays any stacking penalty with the above...can anyone confirm?) When installed and activated I got a sig radius of 188 and a top speed of 5564 m/s Missile damage would be as follows; Rocket 1.48 Standard 0.05 Heavy 0.02 Cruise 0.009 Torp 0.001 I had to go to three decimal places! Now, if you think that spending the ten's of millions on that kit is overkill, I also bought a Tech II MWD and tried it with that Sig Radius 148 top speed 4724 Missile damage would be as follows; Rocket 7.34 Standard 0.81 Heavy 0.51 Cruise 0.19 Torp 0.05 Turrets can't kill interceptors, missiles can't kill interceptors...that was my whole and only point...if you're trying to read anything more into this, you are being overly defensive. --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.18 22:34:00 - [47] Edited by: Grey Area on 18/11/2006 22:33:47 Just another point...standard sig radius of my malediction was 24 before turning on the MWD's...I can't see how a modifier of 500% and 661% gave me sig radii of 148 and 188 respectively...can someone show me the math please? --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2006.11.18 22:36:00 - [48] Originally by: Grey Area Originally by: HankMurphy yeah.... learn your enemy and you will be able to counter him. You think SHOULD be able to take that inty down w/ just your missiles and trained up to lvl 3s or somethin? Do what turret users do, buy a webber/target painter, use webby drones, bring along a tackler etc, etc, etc, etc..... weapons dont kill peole. PILOTS do You're very***y for a man who has completely missed the point. First, so you know YOUR opponent, here are my SKILLS Second, THIS is the point I was arguing against; Originally by:** nexvis if you spent more than 3 hours on missile skills, you should be able to hit them (obviously not for full damage, but too bad, nobody wlse hits them for full damage if any at all) There's a lot of store set by "able to hit them". I just wanted to post cold, hard figures about how pathetic those "hits" were. And to correct my earlier error; I decided your advice was sound, so I went out and bought a Gist A-type MWD for my Malediction. I've got not other speed boosting effects on the ship, and only the following speed boosting implants; Slot 7: +3% to velocity Slot 8: +5% to AB and MWD speed boost Slot 10: +3% to AB and MWD speed boost (I don't know if this pays any stacking penalty with the above...can anyone confirm?) When installed and activated I got a sig radius of 188 and a top speed of 5564 m/s Missile damage would be as follows; Rocket 1.48 Standard 0.05 Heavy 0.02 Cruise 0.009 Torp 0.001 I had to go to three decimal places! Now, if you think that spending the ten's of millions on that kit is overkill, I also bought a Tech II MWD and tried it with that Sig Radius 148 top speed 4724 Missile damage would be as follows; Rocket 7.34 Standard 0.81 Heavy 0.51 Cruise 0.19 Torp 0.05 Turrets can't kill interceptors, missiles can't kill interceptors...that was my whole and only point...if you're trying to read anything more into this, you are being overly defensive. missed the point? hmmm. perhaps i have? sounds like we agree then! missiles dont kill interceptors till ya slow em down or paint em up, like anything else. the link to your skills doesn't work btw (at least not for me). And the speeds those ppl were talking about earlier? yeah, your average run of the mill under 20-30million sp inty tackler will likely be more 2500m/s-4000m/s, anything over that you are spending an awful lot of isk on being a pvp tackler. like that Gist A-type MWD, most actual pvp pilots wont use that, they use a tech II mwd. not to say ppl dont. hell i have a couple intys i have that mod on and i'd be ****ed suprised of some asshat ever landed a hit on me w/o me being dumb enough to let myself get locked down
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.18 22:39:00 - [49] Actually, if I pick up the MAIN point of nexvis's post...he said people complain about Inty's doing 12,000 m/s. I think I've shown that Inty's doing 4500 are enough of a problem anyway. --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.18 22:40:00 - [50] Try this link for skills instead - My skills. I'm number 12 in the list...click my name to see the breakdown. --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2006.11.18 22:44:00 - [51] Originally by: Grey Area Try this link for skills instead - My skills. I'm number 12 in the list...click my name to see the breakdown. grrr... yeah you got a couple skill points on me i'm not saying you could take me, but you got nice char sheet (yeah, i am kinda*****y)
Grey Area Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.18 22:46:00 - [52] "take you"? LOL. You can't quite see it in that shot, but my chest is all pink and fluffy and has a rainbow on it... (Carebear) Plus you have one BIG advantage...you've seen my skills...I know DIDDLY about yours... --- Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums; Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?" Cleese: "I've told you once."
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2006.11.18 23:17:00 - [53] Edited by: HankMurphy on 18/11/2006 23:18:20 Originally by: Grey Area Edited by: Grey Area on 18/11/2006 22:50:21 "take you"? LOL. You can't quite see it in that shot, but my chest is all pink and fluffy and has a rainbow on it... (Carebear) Plus you have one BIG advantage...you've seen my skills...I know DIDDLY about yours... EDIT : Stuck a bet mod overdrive on the malediction...rockets now do 0.52 damage, down to torps doing 0.0002...if EVE rounds damage , then that is a ZERO point hit...surely even the staunchest turret user would not count that as a hit? well basically, just shift all your missle skills over to gunnery and your looking at my character. i wan't saying you didn't have any skills, just the earlier comment it *sounded like you knew about as much about inties and MWD's as Martha Stewart knows about power tools. CAREBEAR? w/ all them skills , oh man... come to the darkside luke. and no, that wouldn't register on a turret either. edit to add: man we kinda hijacked this thread, sry OP
Darknar	Posted - 2006.11.18 23:49:00 - [54] every race in eave has at least one ship choice whitch gives them a Racial damage bonus amarr, caldri and minmatar get frigates with missile damage bonus gallente just get a tristen with silly split weapons and turret damage bonus gallent's only ship with a missile damage bonus is the ares, little more use than a T2 shuttle most of the time, increadbly hard to fit and danm worthless to any normal pilot that can fly a taranis caldari already have it good with the missile advantage, what more do they want.. go back to your level 4 missioning caldri, let the big boys with the turrets go PVPing in style.. when i say big boys i mean not me.. never killed anyone in PVP yet.. at the moment i mission and rat to be able to mssion more.. i dont use caldri ships. i rat pure gallente style... (blasters all the way).. im just fed up with caldri whining on about how its unfair that there the best race for PVE in the game and that they should get more for PVP
Merin Ryskin Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.19 00:42:00 - [55] Originally by: Darknar im just fed up with caldri whining on about how its unfair that there the best race for PVE in the game and that they should get more for PVP It's because EVE is a PvP game. The PvE side is just a means to an end for many people. And we're not amused at not being able to fly our own race's ships in PvP. Screw PvE, I would happily trade a little mission-running effectiveness for some good PvP missile boats.
Jake Nicren	Posted - 2006.11.19 00:58:00 - [56] Originally by: Darknar caldari already have it good with the missile advantage, what more do they want.. go back to your level 4 missioning caldri, let the big boys with the turrets go PVPing in style.. That sais it all really, Caldari are just not allowed to compete in PVP
Lucian Corvinus Gallente Expert Systems	Posted - 2006.11.19 01:05:00 - [57] Originally by: Old Geeza Wrong. Wrecking shots changed ages ago from being completely random to being based on the tracking formula - if you now have to hit to wreck. No you are wrong. Eventhough wrecking shot are somewhat based on tracking, that tracking could be 0, and you would wreck that ship. A missile does not care about the transversal speed, but the actual speed of the target. So if the target was at 0 transversal speed that ship could be dead using turrets, but not with missiles.
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2006.11.19 01:15:00 - [58] Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Originally by: Old Geeza Wrong. Wrecking shots changed ages ago from being completely random to being based on the tracking formula - if you now have to hit to wreck. No you are wrong. Eventhough wrecking shot are somewhat based on tracking, that tracking could be 0, and you would wreck that ship. A missile does not care about the transversal speed, but the actual speed of the target. So if the target was at 0 transversal speed that ship could be dead using turrets, but not with missiles. and your point is? do you actually fly in combat? what all needs to happen for your transversal to be 0? -you flying directly towards or away from a stationary object -neither object is moving -both objects share the same trajectory and speed what the hell kinda situation is this gonna be where suddenly the turrets are hitting and the missiles are not? the POINT is, if missiles are gonna have trouble hitting so are the turrets. go get a tackler or (god forbid) fit your ship so you can hit them. if your just stating obvious, non practical facts about game mechanics thats cool. otherwise hop off the msls suck bandwagon. they have many many advantages to go w/ their disadvantages, just like everything else oh, and LOL at 'caldari cant pvp' guy up there. riiiiiight. keep on whining, everyone is listening
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.11.19 02:58:00 - [59] Edited by: welsh wizard on 19/11/2006 02:59:16 Originally by: Nyxus The kinetic bonus isn't crappy, it's balanced. Drones have different stats, with the same damage bonus. Missiles have the same stats, with differing damage bonus. Net result = pretty much equal and balanced. And for those whining about the Drake. Have you actually run the numbers on the damage? Actual fits for Tier 2 bc, T2 ammo + 150m/s transversal 300m/s speed Drake is the second most damaging BC past 15km. Most damaging past 25km. As Caldari are the long range race this is very appropriate. Drake still looks great, and looks pretty darn balanced now. Nyxus You're missing the point. It's not a gank ship anymore, its just another missile boat which is better suited to shooting NPC's than PC's. I think I can say with some authority that the majority of Caldari pilots are miffed because we were getting a high damage ship for the first time, now our hopes have been dashed. The more observant and reasonable among us accepted that it was stupidly overpowered in its initial format, this should have been rectififed by nerfing its ability to tank not nerfing its damage. The handling of the rebalance is farcial. Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.
Benglada Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.11.19 04:20:00 - [60] Edited by: Benglada on 19/11/2006 04:20:16 All damage specific bonus' need to be scrapped ASAP. Edit:Including the ares bonus to thermel missiles. --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
DiuxDium Black Omega Security The OSS	Posted - 2006.11.19 04:30:00 - [61] Anyone who argues the drake isn't just another PvE ship now is lying through their teeth. That or has never fired a single missile in their life. Missiles are a drag in PvP. BE might disagree with me here, but their tactics requier an entire corp to work towards that 'tactic'. It's not something you get often in Fleet combat. When i'm told "Bring a sniper" and I show up with a raven, I'd expect to get funny looks. The day when my torps hit a target before it goes Poof, or Warps is one hell of a wierd day. All that's needed is this. "Would you fly a drake into a PvP scenario where you're asked to do damage"
BlackMoon Thrawn the Organ Grinder and Company Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.19 04:41:00 - [62] Always hit = no wrecking or barely scratching Reduced damage for smaller ships = reduced damage for smaller ships Reduced damaged for fast moving targets = never having to worry about transversal Kinetic damage bonus instead of general damage = only having 2 damage types to choose from(and one favored) Minmatar get 2 or 3 damages put together but that is only on t1 ammo and would be gladly traded for differnet bonuses to falloff I think. Delay in damage = having to get into a much closer or furher range to get hits
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.11.19 05:55:00 - [63] Originally by: Benglada Edited by: Benglada on 19/11/2006 04:20:16 All damage specific bonus' need to be scrapped ASAP. Edit:Including the ares bonus to thermel missiles. Agreed. Anyone who wants to tell me "oh yeah if you want kinetic only changed for the Drake/cerb/hawk/etc, then it has to change for all the other non-caldari missile ships", I have one thing to say: Please /sign every thread you can find that suggest and supports the idea. I'd gladly see all missile damage bonuses become universal ones and not damage specific. Even on the bat** insanely overpowered curse. Originally by:** kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Xoduse Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.19 08:52:00 - [64] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Vicious Phoenix Caldari are the only race who get a single damage-type for their bonuses. /me points to thermal missile damage bonus on the broken Ares. ---------------------
goodby4u	Posted - 2006.11.19 09:09:00 - [65] Hey sakura,try switching to amarr and doing any kinetic damage with your main weapons,you dont get a bonus towards them but you can use any damage type from your missiles whereas us ammarrians would have to switch to projectile turrets to do the same thing.
Lucian Corvinus Gallente Expert Systems	Posted - 2006.11.19 10:45:00 - [66] Originally by: HankMurphy and your point is? do you actually fly in combat? what all needs to happen for your transversal to be 0? -you flying directly towards or away from a stationary object -neither object is moving -both objects share the same trajectory and speed what the hell kinda situation is this gonna be where suddenly the turrets are hitting and the missiles are not? Well for starters we have most sniping situations, but I guess you havent tried that, otherwise if your target is trying to zig-zsg to get close to you, and your target is turning, your transversal speed will drop to close to 0, and if your have the brain-power, just activate your weapons. But if you are more into running missions where these situations do not occur, well tough luck. But it would however explain why you keep lobbying and crying so much for the drake to stay in it's current useless state, you want to run missions with it, right? If not, please explain why you are having such a hard time if the drake had it's tank nerfed, and was able to deal some damage closerange, because until now you haven't made a single argument, but rather just flame in these forums.
Rastigan Caldari Ars Caelestis Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.11.19 13:05:00 - [67] I guess all you Caladari guys quickly forget that Caldari isnt just a missile race. The Harpy/Eagle/Vulture are the best sniping ships out there with a Caldari sniping BS coming out soon. Yes missiles do gimped damage compared to hybrid and lasers, too bad those weapons #1 Use cap (ah that helpless feeling, when a T2 nos boat just holds your blaster ship in place while you cant even fire back) #2 Have less defense vs ECM/tracking disruptors/Sensor dampeners. That 1k DPS Megathron is ALWAYS going to do Kinetic/Thermal damage, its not TOO hard to stack up on those resists. Its not too strange of a coincidence that Kinetic/Thermal is Caldaris main bonus resist. So you can use hybrids and do kinetic/thermal, switch out ammo and do kinetic/thermal, swap to T2 ammo and do kinetic/thermal... OR... You can use kinetic missiles and do decent dps, or switch out to a different damage type and tailor your damage to your enemy. I for one would F...ing love to have Explosive and EM hybrid ammo for a -50% DPS hit. Please dont try to rationalize why Caldari ships fire kinetic missiles better, its just a game, why would a Caldari ship be able to fire a hybrid turret 50% farther than any other ship ?
Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.19 14:23:00 - [68] Originally by: Siakel Originally by: Futuri Although I agree that the kinetic damage bonus isn't as good as a generic dps bonus, changing 5% drone damage to 10% thermal drone damage is a boost not a nerf :p There was never any 5% drone damage bonus. On any ship. What there was, was a +1 drone/level bonus. Which is the exact same as our current +10%. The Thermal damage that got changed would have been hugely nerfing their use of any other drones, as they'd lose a huge chunk of DPS from what they had previously, to what they'd have had after the change. Actually the Ishtar does +5% DPS per level saddly. It was an ingenious stealth nerf that means that if you use medium drones or light drones (against appropriate targets) with Ishtar you do less DPS than a Vexor and Arbotrator a Pilrgrim a Curse or an Ishkur using the same drones. The phenomenon is also called "CCP 4tl" As to the OP: Yes +5% kinetic damage is a ridiculous bonus and the reason why Raven is the single useful tech I Caldari missle ship IMO. Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.19 14:26:00 - [69] Originally by: Rastigan I guess all you Caladari guys quickly forget that Caldari isnt just a missile race. The Harpy/Eagle/Vulture are the best sniping ships out there with a Caldari sniping BS coming out soon. Yes missiles do gimped damage compared to hybrid and lasers, too bad those weapons #1 Use cap (ah that helpless feeling, when a T2 nos boat just holds your blaster ship in place while you cant even fire back) #2 Have less defense vs ECM/tracking disruptors/Sensor dampeners. That 1k DPS Megathron is ALWAYS going to do Kinetic/Thermal damage, its not TOO hard to stack up on those resists. Its not too strange of a coincidence that Kinetic/Thermal is Caldaris main bonus resist. So you can use hybrids and do kinetic/thermal, switch out ammo and do kinetic/thermal, swap to T2 ammo and do kinetic/thermal... OR... You can use kinetic missiles and do decent dps, or switch out to a different damage type and tailor your damage to your enemy. I for one would F...ing love to have Explosive and EM hybrid ammo for a -50% DPS hit. Please dont try to rationalize why Caldari ships fire kinetic missiles better, its just a game, why would a Caldari ship be able to fire a hybrid turret 50% farther than any other ship ? I take your point of comparison with lasers and hybrids (with some salt oc because even with kinetic missles the Caldari ships still do a lot less DPS) but tell me now please about projectiles doing a lot more DPS than missles AND retaining that DPS no matter what damage type they use AND using no cap AND being fitted on ships that can dictate range 99% of the time... There used to be a balance in EvE... then they hired Tux Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.19 16:51:00 - [70] Originally by: Crellion but tell me now please about projectiles doing a lot more DPS than missles AND retaining that DPS no matter what damage type they use EMP M: 10 EM, 8 exp, 4 kin - 22 damage (100%) Phased Plasma M: 16 thermal, 4 kin - 18 damage (82%) Titan Sabot M: 12 kin, 6 exp - 18 damage (82%) Fusion M: 16 exp, 4 kin - 20 damage (91%)
Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.19 17:56:00 - [71] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Crellion but tell me now please about projectiles doing a lot more DPS than missles AND retaining that DPS no matter what damage type they use EMP M: 10 EM, 8 exp, 4 kin - 22 damage (100%) Phased Plasma M: 16 thermal, 4 kin - 18 damage (82%) Titan Sabot M: 12 kin, 6 exp - 18 damage (82%) Fusion M: 16 exp, 4 kin - 20 damage (91%) QOTSA: A breeding ground for smart people. <3
Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.19 18:46:00 - [72] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Crellion but tell me now please about projectiles doing a lot more DPS than missles AND retaining that DPS no matter what damage type they use EMP M: 10 EM, 8 exp, 4 kin - 22 damage (100%) Phased Plasma M: 16 thermal, 4 kin - 18 damage (82%) Titan Sabot M: 12 kin, 6 exp - 18 damage (82%) Fusion M: 16 exp, 4 kin - 20 damage (91%) ok thats balanced then innit You guys dont play eve you play minmattar ... you are all roleplayers Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2006.11.20 20:28:00 - [73] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Crellion but tell me now please about projectiles doing a lot more DPS than missles AND retaining that DPS no matter what damage type they use EMP M: 10 EM, 8 exp, 4 kin - 22 damage (100%) Phased Plasma M: 16 thermal, 4 kin - 18 damage (82%) Titan Sabot M: 12 kin, 6 exp - 18 damage (82%) Fusion M: 16 exp, 4 kin - 20 damage (91%) Sabot does that much damage? Huh. I thought it did less. buys more to fend off T2 Minmatar ships ---------------------------- Please don't try to troll in your signature -Eldo([email protected]) I tried?

Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.