| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 .. 17 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
36158
   |
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:19:37 -
[31] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:...Everybody wants an easy gank...
Absolutely.
Which makes the argument that 'lowsec pvp is real pvp' or that' nullsec pvp is real pvp' or that 'highsec pvp is not real pvp' kind of all pointless.
They are just different to each other. Not greater or lesser than one another.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1389
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:20:07 -
[32] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
There are very few real fights in EVE. Everybody wants an easy gank. But the risk-reward for highsec mercs is broken.
The only way it's broken is that it can be dodged. Everything else is dependent on the defender. My risk is what they are willing to give me. If they aren't, that's their fault, not mine, and not the game's. Theirs.
That's not risk when the wardec occurs on the attackers prerogative unless the attacker looks for it or wrongly estimates the capacity of the opponent. Every wardec target has a limit to what they can respond with and we can't all be the strongest entity. That's just not possible. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
12698
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:21:56 -
[33] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
That's not risk when the wardec occurs on the attackers prerogative unless the attacker looks for it or wrongly estimates the capacity of the opponent.
And that's the fault of the target still. The only defenseless people in New Eden are those who choose to be that way.
Quote:
Every wardec target has a limit to what they can respond with and we can't all be the strongest entity. That's just not possible.
I didn't say it was. I said that "not defending myself" is the NPC corp option. If that's what you want, then you belong in an NPC corp, period. Player corps are for people who will deal with wars. NPC corps are for people who won't.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2835
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:23:53 -
[34] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
There are very few real fights in EVE. Everybody wants an easy gank. But the risk-reward for highsec mercs is broken.
The only way it's broken is that it can be dodged. Everything else is dependent on the defender. My risk is what they are willing to give me. If they aren't, that's their fault, not mine, and not the game's. Theirs. That's not risk when the wardec occurs on the attackers prerogative unless the attacker looks for it or wrongly estimates the capacity of the opponent. Every wardec target has a limit to what they can respond with and we can't all be the strongest entity. That's just not possible.
And this would be a problem, were it not so ridiculously easy to avoid the consequences of war, or bring in allies at a fraction of the cost that the aggressors pay.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
12698
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:25:47 -
[35] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
And this would be a problem, were it not so ridiculously easy to avoid the consequences of war, or bring in allies at a fraction of the cost that the aggressors pay.
I don't think it would even be a problem then. It would simply cut out all the toxic newbie tax farm corps, and incentivize people to work together and defend themselves.
Combine that with changes that make player corps the optimal way to generate personal income and you have a system that both encourages conflict and incentivizes the defender to hold onto what he has, not just fold corps every time.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Dana Goodeye
Quafe Commandos
Point Blank Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:27:32 -
[36] - Quote
oh god, code guys, please stop :D attacking pods, miners, haulers, explorers isnt pvp even in losec or null xD you guys can be so deffensive when something like this comes up, but until any of you not gonna fight me in a duel in hek, ( im ready to bring an ibis, or a procurer to fight with, to be fair xD ) so, until that fight happens, stop defining yourselves as pvpers :D fighting a pve pilot with 0 pvp experience is the same as shooting miners =P and a 2 days old player flying a venture has no clue about that red trasher just came out of warp :D hisec pvp is a joke anyway. hisec pvp is ganking, like the code does, or station gaming, like the marmite way for example. at least the marmites doest fear to fly their shiny ships to losec and get levelled up in combat =D |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1389
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:31:10 -
[37] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:
That's not risk when the wardec occurs on the attackers prerogative unless the attacker looks for it or wrongly estimates the capacity of the opponent.
And that's the fault of the target still. The only defenseless people in New Eden are those who choose to be that way. Quote:
Every wardec target has a limit to what they can respond with and we can't all be the strongest entity. That's just not possible.
I didn't say it was. I said that "not defending myself" is the NPC corp option. If that's what you want, then you belong in an NPC corp, period. Player corps are for people who will deal with wars. NPC corps are for people who won't.
Accepting NPC corps but declaring evasion as an issue with wars doesn't make sense. Evasion doesn't stop being evasion when it just eliminates the possibility of a dec vs removing the effects of a wardec from an individual. If you have no issue with NPC corps you should have no issue with people using them to dodge wars.
And while a corps strength may be a result of that corps choice, it doesn't change the fact that not all corps can reasonably be equal in strength and that the attackers initiative creates the match ups. Even a corp that does take combative action risks being destroyed by a superior force. All it takes is for you to catch the eye of a bigger fish. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2836
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:34:12 -
[38] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:And while a corps strength may be a result of that corps choice, it doesn't change the fact that not all corps can reasonably be equal in strength and that the attackers initiative creates the match ups. Even a corp that does take combative action risks being destroyed by a superior force. All it takes is for you to catch the eye of a bigger fish.
Hang on for a second. When did war start to have to be fair? When did competition for resources start to have to be fair? Are we playing EVE, or a game of tennis?
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6570
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:35:06 -
[39] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Go ahead and pull rank then. I'm going to disagree with you anyway. I can't avoid this pattern that you and several well known forum names around here swoop into these threads like moths to a flame to say the same old stuff over and over again. You can avoid it by not making claims about other people, from their perspective, without presenting some kind of quantifiable data to support it. That, or you could preface such statements with "I think that..." Either would work. Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:And shame on you for not remembering what the game used to be like, how much better it was when the community was not so aspergian. Nothing has changed, except the ever-increasing tendency to demand to be able to operate outside of the game's conventional rules by the average revolving-door freemium fan who gets an EVE trial link from his favorite YouTube broadcaster. We killed (and were killed by) players ten years ago exactly the same way as today (except there were much less limitations on player violence back then), and the only difference is that back then, much fewer players complained about it.
C'mon even you have to admit the sperging ISK/stats addiction is worse than it ever was. For every miner with one eye on the wallet who won't fit a tank, there's a highsec PVP/gank spanking noobs with one eye on the killboard. It used to be that a noob was left alone in lowsec (unless really being dumb or asking for it) and having a KB full of month old noobs and frigates was nothing to be proud of.
The Crimes and Punishment forum was even better, full of great tales of ganks and capers usually against people who stuck their necks out (knew what they were doing) or thought they could pull a fast one (should have known better).
Those days are gone. The kind of player you describe as being bad for the game is on both sides of the gank or highsec wardec. You know this and there's no dishonor in admitting it. I'm not trying to win forum fu contests.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
876
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:36:29 -
[40] - Quote
alexclone1 wrote:Who is there to hire when all the pvpers are in the war decing alliances? Where is there to go? What is there to do?
Sadly i had spent too much $$ for a corp website that never saw the light of day because once i relized the war dec mechanics, it was no longer worth it to be a successful large (50+) high sec corp.
I have no issues fighting, but a 50 man corp spread in euro/american tz simply cant do jack about the HUNDREDS of experienced pvpers camping your stations with nothing better to do.
I would love to have a conversation in the comments from both sides. Perhaps there is some middle ground?
Sorry to hear you were unable to successfully start a corp in highsec. Without all the details it is hard to determine where you went wrong, but it is true that there are hundreds of successful corps in highsec and more created every month. That said, it is non-trivial (as it should be) to create a vibrant and function highsec corp in the competitive sandbox that is New Eden.
There is nothing wrong with this. There are very good game design reasons why highsec corps should be under pressure from other players. Unfortunately in this case you were not able to provide the diplomatic and/or military leadership needed to successfully navigate the hornet's nest of ne'er-do-wells looking for targets, or rivals wanting to defend their operations from competitors.
If there is anything wrong with the game, it is that there is no compelling technical reason for you to start a corp in highsec. I don't know what your goals were, but if you just wanted a social place for players to hang out while they learn the game, then the game forced you to assume a lot of risk and attention from PvPers and other rival corps, while providing you with little more than a shared hanger/wallet and a chat channel. If this was your goal then I have some sympathy for you and hope CCP gets around to implementing a "social corp" or another mechanism where you can have the social benefits of a corp without the added risk of wardecs.
If you were starting a serious industrial corp then the failure of your corp was working as intended. This game is designed so you have to defend your industrial operations. If you are going to extract benefit from the Eve economy, then you need to be at risk from your competitors, including to direct pressure from wardecs. A competitive corp is not entitled to opt-out of wardecs while dumping resources and industrial goods onto the market. Doing so would limit destruction which is bad for the war economy of Eve, and targets for other players which is bad for a vibrant PvP game.
There is nothing stopping you from trying again. Start a new corp and pay more attention to the risk of wardecs. Spend some effort developing plans and doctrines to deal with the threat, and work on making friends to help defend you or find mercenaries that will do that for a fee. Perhaps grow a little slower by spending more time on that and less on spamming invites in rookie systems just to get your numbers up quickly and you will have more success.
|
|
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1389
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:36:59 -
[41] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
There are very few real fights in EVE. Everybody wants an easy gank. But the risk-reward for highsec mercs is broken.
The only way it's broken is that it can be dodged. Everything else is dependent on the defender. My risk is what they are willing to give me. If they aren't, that's their fault, not mine, and not the game's. Theirs. That's not risk when the wardec occurs on the attackers prerogative unless the attacker looks for it or wrongly estimates the capacity of the opponent. Every wardec target has a limit to what they can respond with and we can't all be the strongest entity. That's just not possible. And this would be a problem, were it not so ridiculously easy to avoid the consequences of war, or bring in allies at a fraction of the cost that the aggressors pay.
The statement was in direct response to someone who stated the issue was with avoiding consequence, thus in the ideal war they would create such an option isn't available and thus keeps the objection relevant. Also while the mechanical limits of bringing in allies is negligible, purchasing quality allies is likely to exceed the dec cost unless in an entity that is sizable enough to have some reasonable defense. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1389
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:40:43 -
[42] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:And while a corps strength may be a result of that corps choice, it doesn't change the fact that not all corps can reasonably be equal in strength and that the attackers initiative creates the match ups. Even a corp that does take combative action risks being destroyed by a superior force. All it takes is for you to catch the eye of a bigger fish. Hang on for a second. When did war start to have to be fair? When did competition for resources start to have to be fair? Are we playing EVE, or a game of tennis?
Never said they had to be, but rather the line of this conversation followed the idea that differing levels of strength justified having other ways around an arbitrary ability to freely engage in hostilities. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
12701
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:40:51 -
[43] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Accepting NPC corps but declaring evasion as an issue with wars doesn't make sense.
Evasion is not an issue. The use of dec dodging to get the benefits of being in a player corp with NPC corp safety is.
Quote:
And while a corps strength may be a result of that corps choice, it doesn't change the fact that not all corps can reasonably be equal in strength and that the attackers initiative creates the match ups.
If you want fair fights, you're playing the wrong game.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Darth Terona
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
50
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:44:54 -
[44] - Quote
With regards.. If you where a military director, and you cannot deal with this problem... Can I know who you where a military director for? Sounds like an easy mark for my guys :) |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2837
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:45:21 -
[45] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:C'mon even you have to admit the sperging ISK/stats addiction is worse than it ever was. For every miner with one eye on the wallet who won't fit a tank, there's a highsec PVP/gank spanking noobs with one eye on the killboard. It used to be that a noob was left alone in lowsec (unless really being dumb or asking for it) and having a KB full of month old noobs and frigates was nothing to be proud of.
The Crimes and Punishment forum was even better, full of great tales of ganks and capers usually against people who stuck their necks out (knew what they were doing) or thought they could pull a fast one (should have known better).
Those days are gone. The kind of player you describe as being bad for the game is on both sides of the gank or highsec wardec. You know this and there's no dishonor in admitting it. I'm not trying to win forum fu contests.
We must have been playing a different game, because when I played back then, we sat 150km off low-sec gates and popped every little thing with Tachygeddons and sniper Feroxes, and rolled around the belts killing and ransoming anyone we could find. A player's age made no difference either, since everyone was pretty new.
Is it more of a numbers game today, where math and exact calculations play a bigger role in pvp? Sure. but that's evolution, not regression. No one counted their DPS and healing in vanilla WoW raids either.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1389
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:49:35 -
[46] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Accepting NPC corps but declaring evasion as an issue with wars doesn't make sense.
Evasion is not an issue. The use of dec dodging to get the benefits of being in a player corp with NPC corp safety is. Quote:
And while a corps strength may be a result of that corps choice, it doesn't change the fact that not all corps can reasonably be equal in strength and that the attackers initiative creates the match ups.
If you want fair fights, you're playing the wrong game.
Who said anything about fair fights? You said you wanted to trap people in decs, that doesn't make sense considering the massive potential strength differences. That has nothing to do with actually declaring war, or the ability to pursue or engage weaker targets that don't evade, or even seeking out other means to pursue those that do.
Also the differences between a player corp and an NPC corp are largely not worth fighting over for most corps. The "benefits" amount to very little, thus there is no reason for such determined defense in the face of overwhelming odds. You line of thought leaves no room for codifying any form of identity save for fighting capacity in a social game. I can't be the only one who finds that odd. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2839
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:54:30 -
[47] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Who said anything about fair fights? You said you wanted to trap people in decs, that doesn't make sense considering the massive potential strength differences. That has nothing to do with actually declaring war, or the ability to pursue or engage weaker targets that don't evade, or even seeking out other means to pursue those that do.
Not trap; there should always be a way out. But that way out shouldn't equate to a "okay, we're canceling your war now, bye o/".
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Also the differences between a player corp and an NPC corp are largely not worth fighting over for most corps. The "benefits" amount to very little, thus there is no reason for such determined defense in the face of overwhelming odds. You line of thought leaves no room for codifying any form of identity save for fighting capacity in a social game. I can't be the only one who finds that odd.
I agree. Perhaps it's time that they raised the NPC corp tax to something along the lines of 40-50%, which would be in line with the amount of protection afforded by them.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
12702
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:55:26 -
[48] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Who said anything about fair fights?
You did, when you were jawing on about "reasonably equal in strength".
Quote:
You said you wanted to trap people in decs
Nope. I said that dec dodging should not be permitted. If you don't want to deal with wars, you belong in an NPC corp, full stop.
Quote:
Also the differences between a player corp and an NPC corp are largely not worth fighting over for most corps.
Which is why NPC corps themselves should be nerfed, and player corps commensurately buffed until being in a player corp is the optimal choice for personal income.
Player corps should mean more than just a glorified chat channel and a station hangar.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Second-Dawn
770
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:55:54 -
[49] - Quote
I have had a chat with some merc alliances in another thread and the question I posed when they were complaining about people evading war decs by closing corps and re-creating and by moving to NPC corps was whether it was sensible for them to do the scatter gun war decs.
Their view was that it was the only way to get fights (kills)... And I said that they were over-fishing, I also pointed out that there was also an issue in that if anyone fought back, then other hisec mercs would also pile in so it was a zero-sum game.
It is quite obvious that if you lock non-PvP players into this so they cannot play they will up sticks and move to another game, gee thats obvious to me, but not blinked people like Kaarous.
The most important thing to look at is whether there is any skin in the game, and the changes coming with new structures is exactly that..., which is why I looked at all the blowhards saying no don't allow them in hisec with utter amazement, the key thing is that a war dec is only meaningful if you have something to defend and something to kill other than blowing up noob ships and empty pods, or killing noobs who are too stupid to change what they are doing.
I pointed out in one thread at a person whining about a war dec corp being useless when the person employed them to cause pain after their POS was taken out, I pointed out that the time to employ mercs was to defend the POS, not to have them trying to kill people who could just sit it out. Seems obvious to me, but that works both ways doesn't it.
Currently I have two war decs on by Marmite and Foresaken, both paid for by a Goon, most of my corp mates are playing GTA 5, and me I am floating around doing the odd thing like saving a freighter from the Goons or playing Shadow of Morder while sitting cloaked or docked, the joys of Eve indeed... There you go I am like a leet AFK cloaker, I just won Eve 
Ella's Snack bar
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
12704
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 06:59:05 -
[50] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
It is quite obvious that if you lock non-PvP players into this so they cannot play they will up sticks and move to another game, gee thats obvious to me, but not blinked people like Kaarous.
No one wants to lock them out of the game.
I merely want risk vs reward to mean a goddamned thing, instead of be skewed enormously in favor of the PvE players.
Quote:Currently I have two war decs on by Marmite and Foresaken, both paid for by a Goon, most of my corp mates are playing GTA 5, and me I am floating around doing the odd thing like saving a freighter from the Goons or playing Shadow of Morder while sitting cloaked or docked, the joys of Eve indeed... There you go I am like a leet AFK cloaker, I just won Eve
Whose fault is it that your corp is too risk averse to actually play the game?
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
|
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
12704
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 07:01:59 -
[51] - Quote
Come on now Drac. I know that, compared to the pampered, isk bloated life they have right now, that actually having to play the game will be quite the shock for the average carebear, but if they can't get over it, that's not my problem.
The game needs to change to promote conflict, instead of boring people to death. That change will mean a less safe highsec. If that's a deal breaker for some, well, don't let the door hit you.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2840
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 07:02:22 -
[52] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:I also pointed out that there was also an issue in that if anyone fought back, then other hisec mercs would also pile in so it was a zero-sum game.
This is exactly how it doesn't work, and why pvp-focused high-sec corporations aren't being picked on with wars. The caveat is that "fighting back" mustn't involve pulling your 1.2b-ISK, cap-stable CNR away from Angel Extravaganza in order to "camp" the mean griefer sociopath in his station while he's Frapsing your local rage.
You have fifty new members? Put them in cheap-fit Caracals and Blackbirds, get a single kill against one of the high-sec hardman entities, and watch as you never get a single war again.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
|
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Second-Dawn
770
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 07:02:45 -
[53] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
It is quite obvious that if you lock non-PvP players into this so they cannot play they will up sticks and move to another game, gee thats obvious to me, but not blinked people like Kaarous.
No one wants to lock them out of the game. I merely want risk vs reward to mean a goddamned thing, instead of be skewed enormously in favor of the PvE players. Quote:Currently I have two war decs on by Marmite and Foresaken, both paid for by a Goon, most of my corp mates are playing GTA 5, and me I am floating around doing the odd thing like saving a freighter from the Goons or playing Shadow of Morder while sitting cloaked or docked, the joys of Eve indeed... There you go I am like a leet AFK cloaker, I just won Eve Whose fault is it that your corp is too risk averse to actually play the game?
You want them locked out of the game, you have said so in numerous threads.
As for not fighting, we did 4 roams looking for Marmite, they ran or were not around, some of our guys have had such war decs before where they pick of easy kills and run, so they are doing something else, in other words boring them out of the war dec. But tell that to the Marmite player who ran from me on the gate last night too, that was funny...
Ella's Snack bar
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1389
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 07:03:12 -
[54] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Who said anything about fair fights? You said you wanted to trap people in decs, that doesn't make sense considering the massive potential strength differences. That has nothing to do with actually declaring war, or the ability to pursue or engage weaker targets that don't evade, or even seeking out other means to pursue those that do. Not trap; there should always be a way out. But that way out shouldn't equate to a "okay, we're canceling your war now, bye o/". Tyberius Franklin wrote:Also the differences between a player corp and an NPC corp are largely not worth fighting over for most corps. The "benefits" amount to very little, thus there is no reason for such determined defense in the face of overwhelming odds. You line of thought leaves no room for codifying any form of identity save for fighting capacity in a social game. I can't be the only one who finds that odd. I agree. Perhaps it's time that they raised the NPC corp tax to something along the lines of 40-50%, which would be in line with the amount of protection afforded by them.
Why is "we're cancelling your war now" inherently different from "we're cancelling your relative peace now"? Why is one more allowable than the other? So long as wardecs are arbitrary why can't dodging be equally so? And why is the only risk an informed declarer might face, the fact that his targets might not willingly go along with their intent, too much to be dealt with?
As for the latter, you double my EHP on every ship I get in so that I'm actually twice as "safe" in reality as compared to the warped view of protection you've created and we might have a fair deal. |
Dana Goodeye
Quafe Commandos
Point Blank Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 07:04:23 -
[55] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
If you want fair fights, you're playing the wrong game.
i had fair fights =P not too many, im about a year old, and i had about 10 or so. how about that? am i playing the wrong game, ha? and btw guys, not all pvpers looking for easy gank. easy gank isnt fun. hard kill, and unexpected loss is fun :P once i lost my comet to an atron, and it was soo shocking, i forgot to warp my pod off, but it was spared :D or whem i killed a svi with my incursus... or when i almost got a tail with my incursus :D or when i killed a rifter, and on the killmail i saw i should lost that fight :D and some other really fun fights =P i like the pvp, but for me real pvp is when booth sides has the chance to win. where is the fun when you ganking a week old guy in a venture? thats the best you can do? what is the fun in sitting on losec gates, and smartbombing frigs and dessies? i know, not all the ppl have the same standards than me, but i really have no idea, where is the fun in those things *.* |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
12707
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 07:06:20 -
[56] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
You want them locked out of the game, you have said so in numerous threads.
No, I want them to not get to have their cake and eat it too.
I want conflict to be promoted by the game mechanics, not stifled.
If conflict being a thing means not playing the game to you(or to anyone), then you're what's wrong with EVE Online.
Quote:
As for not fighting, we did 4 roams looking for Marmite
Wait, what? Why would you "roam" looking for Marmite? Go to a trade hub.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
12707
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 07:10:03 -
[57] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Why is "we're cancelling your war now" inherently different from "we're cancelling your relative peace now"? Why is one more allowable than the other?
Because loss is supposed to happen. It's pretty much the entire point of this game.
Quote:
So long as wardecs are arbitrary why can't dodging be equally so?
Because wars are intended, and if you don't want them, you already have an option, NPC corps.
What you want is the best of both worlds via an exploit. You're flailing wildly to try and justify this overpowered advantage, but the truth of the matter is that if you don't want wars, you do not belong in a player corp. Player corps are for players.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6571
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 07:10:17 -
[58] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
It is quite obvious that if you lock non-PvP players into this so they cannot play they will up sticks and move to another game, gee thats obvious to me, but not blinked people like Kaarous.
No one wants to lock them out of the game. I merely want risk vs reward to mean a goddamned thing, instead of be skewed enormously in favor of the PvE players. Quote:Currently I have two war decs on by Marmite and Foresaken, both paid for by a Goon, most of my corp mates are playing GTA 5, and me I am floating around doing the odd thing like saving a freighter from the Goons or playing Shadow of Morder while sitting cloaked or docked, the joys of Eve indeed... There you go I am like a leet AFK cloaker, I just won Eve Whose fault is it that your corp is too risk averse to actually play the game?
Damn I could have bet ISK on these responses.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1389
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 07:10:35 -
[59] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Who said anything about fair fights?
You did, when you were jawing on about "reasonably equal in strength". Quote:
You said you wanted to trap people in decs
Nope. I said that dec dodging should not be permitted. If you don't want to deal with wars, you belong in an NPC corp, full stop. Quote:
Also the differences between a player corp and an NPC corp are largely not worth fighting over for most corps.
Which is why NPC corps themselves should be nerfed, and player corps commensurately buffed until being in a player corp is the optimal choice for personal income. Player corps should mean more than just a glorified chat channel and a station hangar.
No, I never said fights should be fair, but rather that differences in strength should allow differences in response. Nowhere did I say decs should be restricted to entities of similar strength, I was even explicit about that. And the dodging concept, we're saying the same thing. Disabling the ability to dodge is trapping someone into a dec. If you don't believe so I'd like you to actually explain what you find to be different.
Also, why again should a player corp need to meet any standard? What's so wrong with a social construct in itself in a social game? And how does that translate to corps that never undock? Player corps should mean what those who create them intend for them to mean and be defended as they intend them to be defended. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
12707
|
Posted - 2015.04.21 07:11:39 -
[60] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Damn I could have bet ISK on these responses.
Are you going to bite ankles, or are you going to rant about the good old days like a hipster? Pick one.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 .. 17 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |