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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Comboduck
TURN LEFT
28
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Posted - 2011.12.06 06:03:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Yes, they should.
I realize that giving promises and stuff in a forum thread isn't something that's going to happen, so instead I will ask you - Is this something that could be done like within the current game mechanics (so that you don't have to spend a lot of time reworking it), and thus realistically MIGHT show up sometime in the future? |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
140
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Posted - 2011.12.06 06:19:00 -
[62] - Quote
Hwong Jian wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:So when you get blown up you want everyone in space to know who your squad, wing and fleet commanders were? In the middle of a fight you want people to be able to know who to shoot so that your squad stops getting bonuses? Quoting because pro-pvp'ers stop in the middle of a firefight to check lossmails. Nothing says "fighting a difficult battle" like stopping to scour killboards for real-time pvp information. In other news, water is wet! And, idiots don't understand sarcasm! I bet you guys didn't know that. If you can gain an advantage by doing something people will do it. If you can have the person who just got blown up check his own loss mail to see who the person who killed him was getting bonuses from nobody who is currently involved in fighting has to stop what they are doing.
Although if you're really lazy, aren't particularly interested in winning and have no ability to multitask I can see why looking at a single line of text on killmail on your second monitor might be too much work for you to handle. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
268
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Posted - 2011.12.06 07:09:00 -
[63] - Quote
Soma Khan wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:So there will be a new breed of KM-hores with rep modules instead of weapons getting in on the kill without getting a GCC in high sec.
They'll call it "ninja killmailing".
you mean as opposed to km whores with a neut logi alt wouldn't you say that needs fixing though? or would you rather just qq about it?
Not sure really. I can see it going both ways, as indicated by reading the other posts.
On the one hand, you need not be the "lead singer" to get in on the kill.
On the other hand, all those "leet" PVPers sticking their epeens all over the place with their killmails will have their neutral RR help listed, and not look so leet.
I could go either way.
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Comboduck
TURN LEFT
28
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Posted - 2011.12.06 07:15:00 -
[64] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Hwong Jian wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:So when you get blown up you want everyone in space to know who your squad, wing and fleet commanders were? In the middle of a fight you want people to be able to know who to shoot so that your squad stops getting bonuses? Quoting because pro-pvp'ers stop in the middle of a firefight to check lossmails. Nothing says "fighting a difficult battle" like stopping to scour killboards for real-time pvp information. In other news, water is wet! And, idiots don't understand sarcasm! I bet you guys didn't know that. If you can gain an advantage by doing something people will do it. If you can have the person who just got blown up check his own loss mail to see who the person who killed him was getting bonuses from nobody who is currently involved in fighting has to stop what they are doing. Although if you're really lazy, aren't particularly interested in winning and have no ability to multitask I can see why looking at a single line of text on killmail on your second monitor might be too much work for you to handle.
Actually both of you have valid points. Possible solution - Strategic information could show up at a set time after the loss. |
knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
11
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Posted - 2011.12.06 07:16:00 -
[65] - Quote
XIRUSPHERE wrote:Comboduck wrote:XIRUSPHERE wrote:Sure thing, just as soon as they fix the problem of you guys not inheriting aggression session penalties and being able to dock and jump through gates while assisting people rendering logi nearly invincible on gate and station. COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC YOU NEED TO FOCUS It's on topic, you can have lazy access to killmails if they fix the inherent problems with them. In order to get on a killmail currently they need to perform an act of aggression which is completely fair, it's also really easy to put a small arty or use a flight of light drones to get on it my friends do this all the time. If you want kills for reps they should fix the ships and give inherited aggression for reps on ships shooting other ships as well. Fair is fair.
You should try flying logistics sometime. It's anything but lazy when you're trying to save billions in ship hulls and fittings from getting popped. Logistics wins battles. Flying logi is one of the most intense and personally rewarding ships to fly in eve yet there is no way for them to share the glory on battle reports. This needs to be addressed.
Allot of corps judge activity on kill mails and logis have to compromise there ability to rep to get on kill mails. Even using combat drones is a compromise when they could be using repping drones. |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
91
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Posted - 2011.12.06 14:43:00 -
[66] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Hwong Jian wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:So when you get blown up you want everyone in space to know who your squad, wing and fleet commanders were? In the middle of a fight you want people to be able to know who to shoot so that your squad stops getting bonuses? Quoting because pro-pvp'ers stop in the middle of a firefight to check lossmails. Nothing says "fighting a difficult battle" like stopping to scour killboards for real-time pvp information. In other news, water is wet! And, idiots don't understand sarcasm! I bet you guys didn't know that. If you can gain an advantage by doing something people will do it. If you can have the person who just got blown up check his own loss mail to see who the person who killed him was getting bonuses from nobody who is currently involved in fighting has to stop what they are doing. Although if you're really lazy, aren't particularly interested in winning and have no ability to multitask I can see why looking at a single line of text on killmail on your second monitor might be too much work for you to handle.
If its a huge fleet fight then maybe they would do this. But so what? Both sides will be able to determine this. Maybe people won't give bonuses and have the whole fleet join in on killing a stray rifter so they don't give this intel away. If the ship is not giving bonuses for the kill it won't show up.
Moreover if your link ships are on grid then they may show up firing guns isntead of giving links. If your booster ships are off grid they will show up as giving boosts but the other side will still need to track them down. If they have half a brain they will be aligned with an ab ready to warp and practically uncatchable. (which is another problem)
None of this seems to be problematic in the least. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Barakkus
1172
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Posted - 2011.12.06 15:16:00 -
[67] - Quote
Hwong Jian wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:So when you get blown up you want everyone in space to know who your squad, wing and fleet commanders were? In the middle of a fight you want people to be able to know who to shoot so that your squad stops getting bonuses? Quoting because pro-pvp'ers stop in the middle of a firefight to check lossmails. Nothing says "fighting a difficult battle" like stopping to scour killboards for real-time pvp information. In other news, water is wet! And, idiots don't understand sarcasm! I bet you guys didn't know that.
No, most people check killboards BEFORE engaging if they're smart. They will scout people in local and neighboring systems to find out where the target's backup is sitting. |
Xtover
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
20
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Posted - 2011.12.06 15:17:00 -
[68] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Yes, they should. eye wub joo |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
91
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Posted - 2011.12.06 15:27:00 -
[69] - Quote
Barakkus wrote:Hwong Jian wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:So when you get blown up you want everyone in space to know who your squad, wing and fleet commanders were? In the middle of a fight you want people to be able to know who to shoot so that your squad stops getting bonuses? Quoting because pro-pvp'ers stop in the middle of a firefight to check lossmails. Nothing says "fighting a difficult battle" like stopping to scour killboards for real-time pvp information. In other news, water is wet! And, idiots don't understand sarcasm! I bet you guys didn't know that. No, most people check killboards BEFORE engaging if they're smart. They will scout people in local and neighboring systems to find out where the target's backup is sitting.
Risk adverse in my eve?
Stop the hand wringing and just have some fun. It's a game. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
325
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Posted - 2011.12.06 15:28:00 -
[70] - Quote
Comboduck wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Yes, they should. I realize that giving promises and stuff in a forum thread isn't something that's going to happen, so instead I will ask you - Is this something that could be done like within the current game mechanics (so that you don't have to spend a lot of time reworking it), and thus realistically MIGHT show up sometime in the future?
It would require some fairly non-trivial re-engineering work that we will need to do anyway at some point in the non-distant future for other reasons. |
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Barakkus
1172
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Posted - 2011.12.06 15:30:00 -
[71] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Barakkus wrote:Hwong Jian wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:So when you get blown up you want everyone in space to know who your squad, wing and fleet commanders were? In the middle of a fight you want people to be able to know who to shoot so that your squad stops getting bonuses? Quoting because pro-pvp'ers stop in the middle of a firefight to check lossmails. Nothing says "fighting a difficult battle" like stopping to scour killboards for real-time pvp information. In other news, water is wet! And, idiots don't understand sarcasm! I bet you guys didn't know that. No, most people check killboards BEFORE engaging if they're smart. They will scout people in local and neighboring systems to find out where the target's backup is sitting. Risk adverse in my eve? Stop the hand wringing and just have some fun. It's a game.
Who said anything about not engaging? It's called knowing what you're up against and planning accordingly. |
Killer Gandry
Shadow of the Pain
15
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Posted - 2011.12.06 15:33:00 -
[72] - Quote
Anyone who uses a module which in some form assists in the battle should appear on the killmail.
Not just the ones shooting, but also the ones repping AND the ones hiding somewhere running ganlinks to boost from far away.
Also agression timer should transfer to neutral logistics because the activly participate in assisting a hostile act. If I sit next to someone shooting and all I do is pass him ammo then I am not an innocent participant, same when I someone is shooting someone else and I remote rep one of them I am no longer uninvolved in an act of agression and as such should suffer the agression timer for docking and jumping aswel.
And yes, I fly logistics. Amongst others I love logistics and scouting. And I accept the risks it should bring with it. I refrain from using a logistics ship as a neutral repair guy simply because it's a broken game mechanic which CCP just can't seem to fix, but as the EULA says, knowingly abusing a bug or oversight is considered exploiting and as such I refrain from using that exploit.
Even if CCP states it isn't an exploit the fact remains that activly assisting in a battle should have shared agression timer and since it doesn't have it it is an exploit in my point of vieuw. One very happily used exploit and because it's so widely used and ingame for a long time CCP can't act on it anymore as an exploit. So now they are gradually changing the mechanics.
And if you bring a few pvp fit logi's there is not much need to use neut logi's because your opponents have to decide what first. The logi's spidertanking eachother and in the meanwhile get shot by their Dps group or on to the Dps group which get's a load of reps.
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Goumeka Ghalvia
The Fuel Pump Brotherhood
15
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Posted - 2011.12.06 15:40:00 -
[73] - Quote
Fully support the OP. All assitance should show up on the kill/lossmails. It would both make killboards more "honest" and give more people incentive to fly logistics. No more whoring with 1 gun or combat drones. |
Barakkus
1172
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Posted - 2011.12.06 15:41:00 -
[74] - Quote
Goumeka Ghalvia wrote:Fully support the OP. All assitance should show up on the kill/lossmails. It would both make killboards more "honest" and give more people incentive to fly logistics. No more whoring with 1 gun or combat drones.
:( But it's funny :P |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
91
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Posted - 2011.12.06 15:44:00 -
[75] - Quote
Barakkus wrote:Cearain wrote:Barakkus wrote:Hwong Jian wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:So when you get blown up you want everyone in space to know who your squad, wing and fleet commanders were? In the middle of a fight you want people to be able to know who to shoot so that your squad stops getting bonuses? Quoting because pro-pvp'ers stop in the middle of a firefight to check lossmails. Nothing says "fighting a difficult battle" like stopping to scour killboards for real-time pvp information. In other news, water is wet! And, idiots don't understand sarcasm! I bet you guys didn't know that. No, most people check killboards BEFORE engaging if they're smart. They will scout people in local and neighboring systems to find out where the target's backup is sitting. Risk adverse in my eve? Stop the hand wringing and just have some fun. It's a game. Who said anything about not engaging? It's called knowing what you're up against and planning accordingly.
By the time you check their killboards and then scout the surrounding area you may find some of your pvp opportunities are gone. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
400
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Posted - 2011.12.06 15:44:00 -
[76] - Quote
Goumeka Ghalvia wrote:Fully support the OP. All assitance should show up on the kill/lossmails. It would both make killboards more "honest" and give more people incentive to fly logistics. No more whoring with 1 gun or combat drones.
This TBH, THIS !
Flying logistics is boring, tedious and stressful in large engagements, on top of that you're considered by the actual KM mechanics has not being there, this is completely silly !!
Logistics pilots also need something to fight for and give them a good reason to be there other than "I'm a good guy who wants my team to win" BS. Give points accordingly to repair amount on the ships in that fracking KM/LM
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Barakkus
1172
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Posted - 2011.12.06 15:56:00 -
[77] - Quote
Cearain wrote: By the time you check their killboards and then scout the surrounding area you may find some of your pvp opportunities are gone.
Not really. |
Valator Uel
Rionnag Alba Northern Coalition.
45
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Posted - 2011.12.06 16:42:00 -
[78] - Quote
I can think of two ways to go about doing this.
1) If someone dies that has been remote repaired the pilot repairing appears on KM with damage repaired shown as a negative number. Only damage repaired shows up, not the virtual HP sent by each cycle of the remote rep module if the target ship is undamaged. Only problem with this method is that someone in the fleet has to die for the logi pilot to appear on the KM. Easy solution but not perfect.
Quote:Name: Valator Uel Security: 3.5 Corp: Rionnag Alba Alliance: Northern Coalition. Faction: None Ship: Guardian Weapon: Large Remote Armor Repair System II Damage Done: -15636
2) When someone kills another ship but his ship was repaired then the logistics pilot appears as a benefactor to that pilot. While it shows no numbers it does show participation in the battle report by those who do no damage but buff other ships. This can actually be applied to all kinds of friendly e-war.
Quote:Name: Valator Uel Security: 3.5 Corp: Rionnag Alba Alliance: Northern Coalition. Faction: None Ship: Sabre Weapon: 150mm Light AutoCannon II Damage Done: 1892 Benefactor1: Barakkus Benefactor1Ship: Scimitar ... ect
Or a combination of both. |
hundurinn
Saiph Industries SRS.
0
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Posted - 2011.12.06 16:56:00 -
[79] - Quote
broken empire mechanics is a seperate issue i dont really understand why it was brought up.
way i see it logistics are part of the fleet and deserve to be in battle reports, it would also make it slightly less thankless to fly them.
also i might actually use my t2 rr drones |
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
547
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Posted - 2011.12.06 17:04:00 -
[80] - Quote
It's been a while since I last PvP'ed, but I thought logis had always showed up in killmails... When did this change?
And why would CCP have removed the killmails for logistics, that makes no sense at all. 84,000 AUR ($420) spent on NeX store for Troll and Profit. |
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Cartheron Crust
Matari Exodus
7
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Posted - 2011.12.06 17:10:00 -
[81] - Quote
So what you are all saying is killmails should be removed from the game.
I approve this message and/or service. |
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Fatal Ascension
276
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Posted - 2011.12.06 17:39:00 -
[82] - Quote
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:It's been a while since I last PvP'ed, but I thought logis had always showed up in killmails... When did this change?
And why would CCP have removed the killmails for logistics, that makes no sense at all. They do because the always fit ***** guns, but that gimps their ability to, you know, be logi.
Its like fitting an alvager on a dps ship for pvp. It has a use, but not a good one. Its there to achieve a goal but detracts from your fleets overall ability. o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/` |
whatever whateverson
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2011.12.06 17:45:00 -
[83] - Quote
It should be shown, also if a guy loses he wants it to show that the opponent was healed and without that logi he would'nt die! |
Dubs Checkem
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.12.06 18:31:00 -
[84] - Quote
Killer Gandry wrote:Anyone who uses a module which in some form assists in the battle should appear on the killmail.
Not just the ones shooting, but also the ones repping AND the ones hiding somewhere running ganlinks to boost from far away.
Also agression timer should transfer to neutral logistics because the activly participate in assisting a hostile act. If I sit next to someone shooting and all I do is pass him ammo then I am not an innocent participant, same when I someone is shooting someone else and I remote rep one of them I am no longer uninvolved in an act of agression and as such should suffer the agression timer for docking and jumping aswel.
And yes, I fly logistics. Amongst others I love logistics and scouting. And I accept the risks it should bring with it. I refrain from using a logistics ship as a neutral repair guy simply because it's a broken game mechanic which CCP just can't seem to fix, but as the EULA says, knowingly abusing a bug or oversight is considered exploiting and as such I refrain from using that exploit.
Even if CCP states it isn't an exploit the fact remains that activly assisting in a battle should have shared agression timer and since it doesn't have it it is an exploit in my point of vieuw. One very happily used exploit and because it's so widely used and ingame for a long time CCP can't act on it anymore as an exploit. So now they are gradually changing the mechanics.
And if you bring a few pvp fit logi's there is not much need to use neut logi's because your opponents have to decide what first. The logi's spidertanking eachother and in the meanwhile get shot by their Dps group or on to the Dps group which get's a load of reps.
this guy seems like he might have it figured out, tbh. it would seem to me that a more consistent mechanic like "anyone who helps anyone who aggresses inherits their aggression timer and shows up on the killmail." this seems more coherent than some things inheriting and some not, some things showing up on kill mails and some not. I am not a logi pilot and don't normally fly with one, but honestly i just like consistent game mechanics. |
Raid'En
Apprentice Innovations
134
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Posted - 2011.12.06 18:32:00 -
[85] - Quote
make me wonder... given that dictor now get agression for depoying bubbles, do they show up on killmails if the guy was on the dirctor's bubble ?
seems as fair as logi on km to me |
Comboduck
TURN LEFT
30
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Posted - 2011.12.06 18:52:00 -
[86] - Quote
Raid'En wrote:make me wonder... given that dictor now get agression for depoying bubbles, do they show up on killmails if the guy was on the dirctor's bubble ?
seems as fair as logi on km to me
That is an entirely different discussion alltogether mate. The only other problem than the one mentioned in my op that fits in here is the broken aggro mechanics of logistics.
However, that should easily be fixable as well.
If you rep someone with agression, you get aggro timer. When they stop agressing, your aggro timer starts ticking down. This way, there won't be a eternal loop of aggro between two cap transfering logistics. It will also add another layer of depth into a fight - If your gang is badly coordinated and some people doesn't deagress when told, it could cost the gang their logistics.
Just a thought.
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Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
128
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Posted - 2011.12.06 19:40:00 -
[87] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Yes, they should.
Don't you dare tease us!
Also, love the new CCP focus and direction. Keep up the good work. |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe
39
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Posted - 2011.12.06 22:38:00 -
[88] - Quote
Greyscale .. if you add this soon ... I can finally forgive you for the anomaly nerf |
Raife Zetter
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2012.03.05 18:23:00 -
[89] - Quote
I was going to make a topic about this myself..
I'm working on a solo mail posting site, and was thinking about the possibilities of setting up competitions and prizes - but unfortunatley without remote assistance of any & all kinds (reps, tracking, boosting etc..) appearing on killmails, it's impossible (without referee's) to 100% verify that a kill occurred in a purely 1-on-1 situation.
Including this stuff on killmails could enable some great out-of-game drivers for content created by players. |
Cipher Jones
341
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Posted - 2012.03.05 18:55:00 -
[90] - Quote
Soma Khan wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:So there will be a new breed of KM-hores with rep modules instead of weapons getting in on the kill without getting a GCC in high sec.
They'll call it "ninja killmailing".
you mean as opposed to km whores with a neut logi alt wouldn't you say that needs fixing though? or would you rather just qq about it?
Fix the broken game mechanic of RR instead of bitching about killmails that reflect the broken mechanic FFS.
04:25:37 Notify Cipher Jones, criminals are not welcome here. Leave now or be destroyed. |
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