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R.I.P. Hurricane

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keepiru Supernova Security Systems	Posted - 2006.11.17 06:00:00 - [91] Horizontally specced for BC/cruisers actually, so the nerfbat doesn't really hurt me from a combat efficiency POV, I just hop into another race's ship. shrug It saddens me to see potentially interesting ships go the way of the feorx though, no matter what the race. There's balanced, and then there's useless. ---------------- Kali ships worth flying left: Harbinger, Rokh. Only 2 left tux, you can make it!
Pattern Clarc The Priory	Posted - 2006.11.17 06:03:00 - [92] it loses a turret and suddenly it's broken?? I agree it was the wrong nerf(should have been with the plates), but seriously people, get a grip. Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Max Hardcase Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.11.17 07:49:00 - [93] Edited by: Max Hardcase on 17/11/2006 07:50:00 Originally by: Pattern Clarc it loses a turret and suddenly it's broken?? I agree it was the wrong nerf(should have been with the plates), but seriously people, get a grip. Well look at it this way : relative to the hp changes it does as much damage as a rupture did b4 patch. Relative to the rupture it does 50% more damage. And thats for atleast a 5x price premium. I'd like to see a graph comparing the Tier 2 BC to the Tier 1 BS from a DPS per isk (in M isk) ratio. I'm also disappointed the Command ship pilots have to cry, but they already knew they where paying a price premium for Tech2. Might as well cry a BS does more damage than a command ship while being cheaper.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.17 08:55:00 - [94] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 17/11/2006 08:55:22 Originally by: Protunia The hurricane doesnt need a biiger drone bay 100 m3 is quite enough. heh I guess we can change the name know to the Guster Except it has 30 m3. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.11.17 08:56:00 - [95] Originally by: Patch86 Originally by: Jim McGregor With heavy drones, myrmidon has equal dps to hurricane at 15k btw (doesnt show in graph). You would rather be forgetting that, with 4 heavy drones, the Myrmidon has the survival potential of a butternut squash. 4 drones would popped within 1 minute, and each one thats popped takes a serious chunk out of it's DPS. Its DPS therefor looks artifically high if you assume it's drones will remain at full strength from the begining to the end of the fight. Thats a load of crap. I would put 3 dampeners on it and have a field day killing people who cant target my drones before they are dead. The ship has 5 medium slots ffs. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Linkel Minmatar Back Home In Time For Tea And Medals The Volition Cult	Posted - 2006.11.17 11:02:00 - [96] What's the chances of CCP undoing these chances or at least give us back out turret please? **** It was too good to be true. A good Minnie ship kinda down the drain.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.17 11:16:00 - [97] Edited by: Ath Amon on 17/11/2006 11:18:13 no the ship is not broken but A) the nerf was mage in the wrong way: if dps was really too high (imo it was not the case) you can reduce it with other means than removing a turret (read drones or ham) B) and more important the motivations behind the nerf where laughtable at best you can't say that the ship melts enemies in no time when there are ships in the same class that do more damge... expecially when one of the ship is a dedicated ganker and the other one have gang modules capabilities you also can't say that when there is a ship that with 1 less gun do around 15% less damage under 7km but have an optimal of 20km i had really the impression that this was a nerf because people liked it... look people like the hurricane, it means it is too good let's nerf it... or maybe because someone at fanfest convinced the developer that it was umbalanced? (if this is really the case is really a problem)
Brolly Caldari The Department of Justice	Posted - 2006.11.17 11:22:00 - [98] ****, I was hoping there would be 1 kick arse ship left, *it. Why the hell did they not just buff the other 2 bc's?, why?. /me is most unimpressed. If I had ú1 for every intelligent comment posted in general discussion, I'd be hideously in debt*
solidshot Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.11.17 11:28:00 - [99] Originally by: Brolly Why the hell did they not just buff the other 2 bc's?, why?. Because that would have been to simple and would have actually given the minnie's a ship that was good from the start without haveing to whine on the forums for three years in the hope that a dev will buff it
MECTO Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.11.17 12:09:00 - [100] "omg hurri lost 1 turret - z0mg rip kill tux!" - what a bull** i hear lol! , hurricane is still a very nice ship with 6 turrets and buni like rupture, yeah.. be happy to not get changed 5% dmg boni to 7.5% shield boost i mean, not now later.. It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it? Originally by:** Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright

Ysolde Xen Minmatar Liberal Trading Co Electus Matari	Posted - 2006.11.17 12:22:00 - [101] Originally by: Protunia heh I guess we can change the name know to the Guster I was thinking more along the lines of 'Stiff Breeze' as a relative term. Bah. Oh well. ----- It's not a crap ship, you're just flying it all wrong.
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.17 12:30:00 - [102] So in summary: t2 BC stats are being released. Amarr: OMG we have nothing we suck Gallente: OMG Myrmidon is useless wtf Drake?? Caldari: haha Drake is fine un00b we're supposed to omgpwn Minmatar: Ssssht let's not discuss Hurricane cos it omgrocks t2 BC stats are rebalanced: Amarr: Hmmpf, we have best dps now so I guess that's good Gallente: Thank god for nerfing Drake. Can't really whine about still useless Myrmidon tho. ****. Caldari: OMGOHNOES we lost out omgwtfownage ship nooo CCP we're supposed to be the best cos we use missiles!!11 Minmatar: OMGOHNOES we still outdamage everything but Harbinger at 5km+ and still have best DPS at point blank but now we suck cos we have to use missiles instead of the turret NOOOOO!!
Tani Yih Minmatar NED-Clan R i s e	Posted - 2006.11.17 12:47:00 - [103] I was actually -happy- we had a non-battleship which filled a role in which you don't need missiles. I was happy not to have to use any missiles. Or rather, I liked filling it with guns. But I suppose I am like the others: I very much was taken by the hurricane. Incidentally, I heard the Drake has its bonus' changed. Was the hurricane changed besides the slot changes?
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.17 12:52:00 - [104] Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux So in summary: Minmatar: OMGOHNOES we still outdamage everything but Harbinger at 5km+ and still have best DPS at point blank but now we suck cos we have to use missiles instead of the turret NOOOOO!! brutix have and had better dps... nerf the brutix?
Matrix Aran Legio Immortalis	Posted - 2006.11.17 12:55:00 - [105] Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux So in summary: t2 BC stats are being released. Amarr: OMG we have nothing we suck Gallente: OMG Myrmidon is useless wtf Drake?? Caldari: haha Drake is fine un00b we're supposed to omgpwn Minmatar: Ssssht let's not discuss Hurricane cos it omgrocks t2 BC stats are rebalanced: Amarr: Hmmpf, we have best dps now so I guess that's good Gallente: Thank god for nerfing Drake. Can't really whine about still useless Myrmidon tho. ****. Caldari: OMGOHNOES we lost out omgwtfownage ship nooo CCP we're supposed to be the best cos we use missiles!!11 Minmatar: OMGOHNOES we still outdamage everything but Harbinger at 5km+ and still have best DPS at point blank but now we suck cos we have to use missiles instead of the turret NOOOOO!! I don't think I could have done it better myself ----
Gragnor Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2006.11.17 13:37:00 - [106] Originally by: Matrix Aran Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux So in summary: t2 BC stats are being released. Amarr: OMG we have nothing we suck Gallente: OMG Myrmidon is useless wtf Drake?? Caldari: haha Drake is fine un00b we're supposed to omgpwn Minmatar: Ssssht let's not discuss Hurricane cos it omgrocks t2 BC stats are rebalanced: Amarr: Hmmpf, we have best dps now so I guess that's good Gallente: Thank god for nerfing Drake. Can't really whine about still useless Myrmidon tho. ****. Caldari: OMGOHNOES we lost out omgwtfownage ship nooo CCP we're supposed to be the best cos we use missiles!!11 Minmatar: OMGOHNOES we still outdamage everything but Harbinger at 5km+ and still have best DPS at point blank but now we suck cos we have to use missiles instead of the turret NOOOOO!! I don't think I could have done it better myself I tell you what; I'll swap the Typhoon stats for the Dominix or the Megathron; better still; I'll give you the Typhoon and take the Raven. Then see what it means.
Pesadel0 Vagabundos THE H0RDE	Posted - 2006.11.17 13:40:00 - [107] Originally by: Matrix Aran Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux So in summary: t2 BC stats are being released. Amarr: OMG we have nothing we suck Gallente: OMG Myrmidon is useless wtf Drake?? Caldari: haha Drake is fine un00b we're supposed to omgpwn Minmatar: Ssssht let's not discuss Hurricane cos it omgrocks t2 BC stats are rebalanced: Amarr: Hmmpf, we have best dps now so I guess that's good Gallente: Thank god for nerfing Drake. Can't really whine about still useless Myrmidon tho. ****. Caldari: OMGOHNOES we lost out omgwtfownage ship nooo CCP we're supposed to be the best cos we use missiles!!11 Minmatar: OMGOHNOES we still outdamage everything but Harbinger at 5km+ and still have best DPS at point blank but now we suck cos we have to use missiles instead of the turret NOOOOO!! I don't think I could have done it better myself Galentean pilots.
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente	Posted - 2006.11.17 14:18:00 - [108] Edited by: Shayla Sh''inlux on 17/11/2006 14:26:57 Originally by: Ath Amon brutix have and had better dps... It does? Not according to your own graph That, plus comparing a ship with NO tank (your Brutix) that has to shoot with extra cap use ammo and empties its cap in under 30 seconds from just shooting to a ship WITH room for a tank and NO cap use for its weapons isn't entirely fair is it? Also what about the brown line, about 100dps above all Brutix lines from over 10km? Isn't that your precious RIP'ed Hurricane? Nerf Brutix indeed. After all, it's the top of the food chain on TQ, everyone flies one and everyone is flying it in uber gank mode. Nobody is fitting small guns and plates to run anti-frig duty cos that's all it's good at. Nope. Brutix is the prime example why DPS Graphs mean absolutely ****e. You know, like Deimos having hot DPS compared to other HAC's and still being absolute, complete crap. And Abaddon having omgshiny DPS and being pretty much the worst of all new ships. What we have now is Matar and Caldari pilots whining their new shiny toys of ownage got nuked down to the level of the OTHER less shiny new toys. If you'd put that level as "useless", then maybe your definition of "useless" is CCP's aim for the powerlevel of cheap, insurable, easy to train for, expandable Battlecruisers. Not that I have any faith in Tuxford actually having a plan or an aim on that matter anywhere. To me all the news stuff, changes and balancing looks purely random anyway.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.17 14:34:00 - [109] Edited by: Ath Amon on 17/11/2006 14:38:33 noticed that the brutix was using the electron and not ion vs 220mm? noticed that it was the old hurricane with 7 guns/1 ham? noticed that the brutix have a tank bonus? noticed that brutix is T1 and that T2 BCs are supposed to be better in combat than T1 ones as they get (generally) 2 more slots? noticed that the brutix is a ship designed to use gangs modules while the hurricane is a pure dps one? and still my point was that brutix was able to outdps the hurricane... if hurricane dps was too high to "melt other ships before they can say ohhh look at that pretty ship" (sort of that?) this is not valid for the brutix?
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.17 14:43:00 - [110] Originally by: Ath Amon Edited by: Ath Amon on 17/11/2006 14:38:33 noticed that the brutix was using the electron and not ion vs 220mm? noticed that it was the old hurricane with 7 guns/1 ham? noticed that the brutix have a tank bonus? noticed that brutix is T1 and that T2 BCs are supposed to be better in combat than T1 ones as they get (generally) 2 more slots? noticed that the brutix is a ship designed to use gangs modules while the hurricane is a pure dps one? and still my point was that brutix was able to outdps the hurricane... if hurricane dps was too high to "melt other ships before they can say ohhh look at that pretty ship" (sort of that?) this is not valid for the brutix? Last time I checked, Hurricane could fit gang modules too (although the fitting bonus was accidentally left off the description page of all the new BCs- still there though, according to Tux). Brutix is severely overrated due to it's cap- its tanking bonus is an acitve tank bonus (reppers) and 7 turrets eats through it's cap in under a minute on its own anyway. The hurricane's weapons don't use any cap- thats a big balancing factor, aside from "omgbbq dps". The Brutix is meant to have a higher DPS (as does the harbinger) to make up for it's crippling cap use. Thats the deal- more difficult to use weapons = better performance in exchange. Why else would anyone use a Brutix, if Hurricane could do the same damage with projectiles without using a drop of cap? -----------------------------------------------

Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.17 14:53:00 - [111] Edited by: Ath Amon on 17/11/2006 14:55:25 if even new BCs can use gang modules then is a bit different as they share the same role, but also open new problems as most T1 BCs becomes totally obsolete (cept the brutix) comparing cyc and hurricane there is no game, hurr have better tank and way better dps... so to me it made sense than T1 where gang support while T2 where "combat" bcs, expecially considering their 2 more slots (that are a lot) are you sure they also share the same role? also a thing that i don't like is that with T1 BCs gallente got their "uber" dpsmobile while other races got crap... and now that T2 BCs came out and are supposed to be better than T1 here that they need to get nerfed cause brutix stats and again more than the nerf itself what makes me mad is how and why it was done
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.11.17 14:58:00 - [112] Edited by: Patch86 on 17/11/2006 15:02:43 Originally by: Ath Amon Edited by: Ath Amon on 17/11/2006 14:55:25 are you sure they also share the same role? Fairly. I'll have a poke on EVE-Search and see if I can dig it up. EDIT: Found. -----------------------------------------------
swamp zyro	Posted - 2006.11.17 15:01:00 - [113] Edited by: swamp zyro on 17/11/2006 15:02:28 Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Minmatar: OMGOHNOES we still outdamage everything but Harbinger at 5km+ and still have best DPS at point blank but now we suck cos we have to use missiles instead of the turret NOOOOO!! What's your problem ? Have you, like, forgotten what it is to have low sp? People already have to train for shieldtanks, armortanks, gunnery, drones, and I hoped, for once, that I wouldnt have to train for ******* missiles also, so you can take those missiles and shove them, thank you.
Swamp Ziro EPSILON TEAM Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.11.17 15:03:00 - [114] Originally by: swamp zyro Edited by: swamp zyro on 17/11/2006 15:02:28 Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Minmatar: OMGOHNOES we still outdamage everything but Harbinger at 5km+ and still have best DPS at point blank but now we suck cos we have to use missiles instead of the turret NOOOOO!! What's your problem ? Have you, like, forgotten what it is to have low sp? People already have to train for shieldtanks, armortanks, gunnery, drones, and I hoped, for once, that I wouldnt have to train for ******* missiles also, so you can take those missiles and shove them, thank you. Bah wrong character again =/
Malena Panic Gallente Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.11.17 15:37:00 - [115] Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux So in summary Can you please do a daily brief in this format so I don't have to wade through gigs of crap and whinage to find out what's going on on Kali?
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.17 15:53:00 - [116] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Patch86 Originally by: Jim McGregor With heavy drones, myrmidon has equal dps to hurricane at 15k btw (doesnt show in graph). You would rather be forgetting that, with 4 heavy drones, the Myrmidon has the survival potential of a butternut squash. 4 drones would popped within 1 minute, and each one thats popped takes a serious chunk out of it's DPS. Its DPS therefor looks artifically high if you assume it's drones will remain at full strength from the begining to the end of the fight. Thats a load of crap. I would put 3 dampeners on it and have a field day killing people who cant target my drones before they are dead. The ship has 5 medium slots ffs. ...and that's a load of crap. Jim, forget your "put 3 damps on a Myrmidon pet theory already. That leaves you 2 slots in which to fit ab/mwd, web and scrambler. You don't do 3 damps with less that 6 mids. The reason ECM was so powerful (especially on drone ships like the Dom) was that if worked fine with just 1-2 modules, making it good with 5 mids. Damps don't work that way.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.17 15:58:00 - [117] Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux What we have now is Matar and Caldari pilots whining their new shiny toys of ownage got nuked down to the level of the OTHER less shiny new toys. If you'd put that level as "useless", then maybe your definition of "useless" is CCP's aim for the powerlevel of cheap, insurable, easy to train for, expandable Battlecruisers. Not that I have any faith in Tuxford actually having a plan or an aim on that matter anywhere. To me all the news stuff, changes and balancing looks purely random anyway. Have to agree here. While the nerf did make the new bcs a bit less equal, they also made them as a group somewhat worse ships. I would have much rather had seen a mild boost to the Myrmidon (and a fix to broken t2 HAMs) myself instead of this nerf. Yeah, Tux's balancing method seems to involve alcohol and a dartboard more than reasoned, careful balance shifts.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.17 16:01:00 - [118] Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 17/11/2006 16:01:25 Originally by: swamp zyro [ What's your problem ? Have you, like, forgotten what it is to have low sp? People already have to train for shieldtanks, armortanks, gunnery, drones, and I hoped, for once, that I wouldnt have to train for ******* missiles also, so you can take those missiles and shove them, thank you. What's your problem? I mostly fly Gallente, and I've had to train that above list, and missiles too. Since missiles are actually a primary weapon class for Manmatar (unlike Gallente), you should have much less problems training them than me, not more. ***ing about having to train for one of your racial primary weapon classes isn't that smart, really. You easily start to sound like the Caldari horde going bat** about actually having to train (shudder) railguns...
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.11.17 16:08:00 - [119] if missiles are primary weapon for minnies then why their missile BS have 4/4 split weapons and not a 6/2 as the raven? mmmmmmmm
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.11.17 16:17:00 - [120] Originally by: Ath Amon if missiles are primary weapon for minnies then why their missile BS have 4/4 split weapons and not a 6/2 as the raven? mmmmmmmm Hey, it's not my fault the devs haven't released a proper missile ship for Minmatar yet. Ok, maybe "primary" was the wrong word, but "secondary" or "racial" certainly isn't. Projectiles and missiles have always been the Minmatar thing. ...and that 4/4 Phoon is still the second-best missile battleship in the game, you know.



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