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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
DangerosoDavo
EVE Is Dead
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 11:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just putting this here to see if someone else had experienced this issue and to warn others.
So i lost an expensive pod yesterday, not a problem but anyone with some smarts can avoid being podded in low sec? right? So i do the usual spam the warp button trick, but, it doesnt work now it seems, atleast not always..
http://www.evesecurity.com/quick/up/922abe7ed9829d6d6948cecc44e19fce.jpg Above link is a link to my logs. (you cannot do that while warping)
I have submited a bug report. (ID: 121764)
Maybe i was just unlucky.
For a little extra information. I had no graphics lag, i had nothing downloading :D and i have fibre optic 30mb/s internet line. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
1276
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 11:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Only 30mb fibre optic? You might as well have dial up
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |
DangerosoDavo
EVE Is Dead
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 11:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Only 30mb fibre optic? You might as well have dial up
lol england is behind the times. 30mb is considered fast. the fastest possible is 100mb in england. (residential) still its a download speed of 3.7MB/s ish. |
Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 11:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
I had the same problem a few days ago. My blockade runner with double WCS (=4 warp strength) was scrambled by a single Rapier. When trying to warp away I got the error message, but it still said the warp drive was active. After a while I cancelled the warp, restarted it and warped away. Of course you don't have so much time in a pod.
A rather serious bug. |
Lady Spank
GET OUT NASTY FACE
313
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 11:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
DangerosoDavo wrote:Bumblefck wrote:Only 30mb fibre optic? You might as well have dial up lol england is behind the times. 30mb is considered fast. the fastest possible is 100mb in england. (residential) still its a download speed of 3.7MB/s ish.
Ignore him, he just makes badposts to wind people up. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ Get Out, Nasty Face ~ (a¦á_a¦â)
Signature edited. Navigator. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
1276
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 11:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:DangerosoDavo wrote:Bumblefck wrote:Only 30mb fibre optic? You might as well have dial up lol england is behind the times. 30mb is considered fast. the fastest possible is 100mb in england. (residential) still its a download speed of 3.7MB/s ish. Ignore him, he just makes badposts to wind people up.
Actually, this is a fairly serious post. I'm from the UK too, but I currently live in Japan. I also have a fibre optic connection, but it is a 100MB line, for about the equivalent of -ú25/month. I was being a little facetious in my post but that was more to illustrate the paucity of BT's infrastructure
Anyway, sucks to lose your pod dude
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki |
St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
163
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 11:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yep, lost two yesterday, good to know it wasn't my fault |
Dust Fourtwenty
Dust 515
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 11:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
bandwidth is not speed ping is speed
and sadly how that loss happened is nothing new |
DangerosoDavo
EVE Is Dead
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 11:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dust Fourtwenty wrote:bandwidth is not speed ping is speed
this is true. Being in the same country as the eve server helps though and being fibre optic when most of the country is on adsl still means i get an awesome ping to the eve cluster. |
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
23
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 12:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Dust Fourtwenty wrote:bandwidth is not speed ping is speed
Just to be PERFECTLY correct:
Speed of broadband is constant (speed of light) so ping and bandwidth incorrectly reference "speed" but it is the easiest to understand. Ping attempts to send a packet of information to gather statistics about its journey. How long it took to get there and return that information (if allowed) is returned and it does not reference speed. I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking |
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Sentient Blade
Walk It Off Coalition of the Unfortunate
116
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 12:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Klandi wrote:Dust Fourtwenty wrote:bandwidth is not speed ping is speed Just to be PERFECTLY correct: Speed of broadband is constant (speed of light) so ping and bandwidth incorrectly reference "speed" but it is the easiest to understand. Ping attempts to send a packet of information to gather statistics about its journey. How long it took to get there and return that information (if allowed) is returned and it does not reference speed.
That's close, but not entirely true.
A network with high congestion will respond with longer pings as packets work their way through routers and buffers. Therefore the speed of which this data can navigate the network can be reasonably represented by a ping (at that load). |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
235
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 12:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Shut up nerds.
It's not Rocket Surgery |
Karn Dulake
Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance
127
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 12:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dangerous Dave
Only an Englishman could have a name like that. :) Something Awful. A beacon for tearful, lonely neckbeards. |
Sadayiel
Inner Conflict
15
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 12:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
DangerosoDavo wrote:Just putting this here to see if someone else had experienced this issue and to warn others. So i lost an expensive pod yesterday, not a problem but anyone with some smarts can avoid being podded in low sec? right? So i do the usual spam the warp button trick, but, it doesnt work now it seems, atleast not always.. http://www.evesecurity.com/quick/up/922abe7ed9829d6d6948cecc44e19fce.jpgAbove link is a link to my logs. (you cannot do that while warping) I have submited a bug report. (ID: 121764) Maybe i was just unlucky. For a little extra information. I had no graphics lag, i had nothing downloading :D and i have fibre optic 30mb/s internet line.
If i recall this is some kind of bug (not working as intended) or either a revamp of the mechanic (the spam warp to runaway asap you get into pod doesn't seems to work)
It was brought to attention before and some CCP Dev acknowledge at 1st glance as bug.. but can't say for sure how the whole thing went at the end. (it's nothing related to isp connection)
P.S: it also happened to me several months ago, maybe they fixed it and somehow it resurfaced. |
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GM Homonoia
Game Masters C C P Alliance
189
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 13:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
DISCLAIMER: I am not a programmer or designer. My word is not law on this matter.
However: Spamming a button is never a feature and is never guaranteed to work. Spamming the warp button has never been a 100% guarantee escape and it was definitely not designed to be so. In fact, spamming any button can cause client side lag. It may help you get the perfect timing right, it is just as likely to drown the client or your connection and make things worse.
It is really explained by the word "spamming", which is never a good thing. Btw, this is true for almost all software. Even a simple text program will fall behind or filter out some commands when you mash your buttons fast enough, let alone a complex program like EVE.
My only advise is: do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. If your ship gets caught, your pod is in dire straights as well. It may get out, but it may go squish all the same if your attackers are paying attention. GM Homonoia | Info Group | Game Master |
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KPEMAT0P
Solaris Holding The Ancients.
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 13:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
Hi DangerosoDavo,
The issue is not new. It is likely to be ralated to same trick that is preventing/delaying transporters to enter Cloak. There is a couple of way to create the time delay affecting the user being attacked, but must know is the "Warp to gate trick". This was among others used by a known alliance in Aunenen sinde late summer 2011.
The reason why CCP have not noted the issue. Might be because it is a PVP senario, and all complains about lost ships in PVP situations is considered as "Not eligable for reimbursment". So these tech reports might get low priority.
By the way. Nice work with the new POCO and PI taxes. Its working as intended, and as you already gave a heads up on, several months before the change.
|
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
256
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 13:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
GM Homonoia wrote:However: Spamming a button is never a feature and is never guaranteed to work. Spamming the warp button has never been a 100% guarantee escape and it was definitely not designed to be so. In fact, spamming any button can cause client side lag. It may help you get the perfect timing right, it is just as likely to drown the client or your connection and make things worse. Well, one thing that is definitely true since Crucible is that the client lags a lot more on quite a few situations. This is difficult to bug report, as it's not a single bug you can easily reproduce, but it feels a lot more laggy. And that would indicate a software problem that should be fixed, regardless of whether the "pod escape" is an intended feature or not. |
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GM Homonoia
Game Masters C C P Alliance
191
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 13:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
Arkady Sadik wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:However: Spamming a button is never a feature and is never guaranteed to work. Spamming the warp button has never been a 100% guarantee escape and it was definitely not designed to be so. In fact, spamming any button can cause client side lag. It may help you get the perfect timing right, it is just as likely to drown the client or your connection and make things worse. Well, one thing that is definitely true since Crucible is that the lag caused by "spamming" (I hit the warp button twice a second tops for pod escape, worked very well in the past) is that the client lags a lot more on quite a few situations. This is difficult to bug report, as it's not a single bug you can easily reproduce, but it feels a lot more laggy. And that would indicate a software problem that should be fixed, regardless of whether the "pod escape" is an intended feature or not.
That, unfortunately, is something I cannot really go into as I simply lack the skills (not a programmer or QA person) to delve into this. I realize that bug reporting this isn't easy, but it is still the best way to get programmers to notice.
What I can promise you is that I will keep an eye out for this (both as a game master and as a player) and will pass anything I find up the chain. GM Homonoia | Info Group | Game Master |
|
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
256
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 13:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Thank you :-) |
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
23
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 13:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:
That's close, but not entirely true. .
Sorry to disagree but ping does not and cannot represent speed in any form.
Please reference any documentation on ping and its elements and forget all interpretation. Speed is constant on any type of network at 186,282 miles per second. Fact. What you are referring to is the amount of information that can be carried AT THAT SPEED which is always variable and for ease of use is referred to as speed - but wrongly so.
And as a registered nerd, Zagdul - I will not shut up I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking |
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Lady Spank
GET OUT NASTY FACE
315
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 13:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
Nice to know it's our fault the client freezes and gets people killed. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ Get Out, Nasty Face ~ (a¦á_a¦â)
Signature edited. Navigator. |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 13:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Happens with ships, too....sometimes. Since Crucibal, happens EVERYtime you spam warp-to-0. |
DangerosoDavo
EVE Is Dead
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 13:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
GM Homonoia wrote:Arkady Sadik wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:However: Spamming a button is never a feature and is never guaranteed to work. Spamming the warp button has never been a 100% guarantee escape and it was definitely not designed to be so. In fact, spamming any button can cause client side lag. It may help you get the perfect timing right, it is just as likely to drown the client or your connection and make things worse. Well, one thing that is definitely true since Crucible is that the lag caused by "spamming" (I hit the warp button twice a second tops for pod escape, worked very well in the past) is that the client lags a lot more on quite a few situations. This is difficult to bug report, as it's not a single bug you can easily reproduce, but it feels a lot more laggy. And that would indicate a software problem that should be fixed, regardless of whether the "pod escape" is an intended feature or not. That, unfortunately, is something I cannot really go into as I simply lack the skills (not a programmer or QA person) to delve into this. I realize that bug reporting this isn't easy, but it is still the best way to get programmers to notice. What I can promise you is that I will keep an eye out for this (both as a game master and as a player) and will pass anything I find up the chain.
okay, after pondering for a few moments on your view i have come to the following conclusion.
Lag due to spamming may infact be possible but looking at the logs it was between 5 and 9 seconds after lossing the ship and being in a pod and being unable to warp the whole time, and again looking at the logs it states the reason as being already in warp. im sure a pod can align and warp in less than 5 seconds even with lag. This indicated a programming/software issue to me. state change problems?
another thing, i had no clientside lag at the time of the incident, you only have my word for this though as i wasnt recording the fight due to 2 scorps decloaking and me thinking it was pointless :D
on a side note: i had had the issue with session change simply not expireing before since cruicible, ive been sat on a gate for 3 minutes not being able to jump because my session change didn't expire, maybe another state change problem in the client? only relogging fixed the problem. |
Paul Clancy
Korpu no Byakko Tower of Dark Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 13:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
KPEMAT0P wrote:Hi DangerosoDavo,
The issue is not new. It is likely to be ralated to same trick that is preventing/delaying transporters to enter Cloak. There is a couple of way to create the time delay affecting the user being attacked, but must know is the "Warp to gate trick". This was among others used by a known alliance in Aunenen sinde late summer 2011.
The reason why CCP have not noted the issue. Might be because it is a PVP senario, and all complains about lost ships in PVP situations is considered as "Not eligable for reimbursment". So these tech reports might get low priority.
By the way. Nice work with the new POCO and PI taxes. Its working as intended, and as you already gave a heads up on, several months before the change.
As one being podded in Aunenen - may you say what exacly is this trick? They had themselves warped to gate where I am. yes. Or in moments of ship's destruction they all warping to other gate thus lagging me? |
WhyTry1
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 13:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
GM Homonoia wrote:DISCLAIMER: I am not a programmer or designer. My word is not law on this matter.
However: Spamming a button is never a feature and is never guaranteed to work. Spamming the warp button has never been a 100% guarantee escape and it was definitely not designed to be so. In fact, spamming any button can cause client side lag. It may help you get the perfect timing right, it is just as likely to drown the client or your connection and make things worse.
It is really explained by the word "spamming", which is never a good thing. Btw, this is true for almost all software. Even a simple text program will fall behind or filter out some commands when you mash your buttons fast enough, let alone a complex program like EVE.
My only advise is: do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. If your ship gets caught, your pod is in dire straights as well. It may get out, but it may go squish all the same if your attackers are paying attention.
Thats a pretty poor response and excuse.. fix your damn game then... |
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GM Homonoia
Game Masters C C P Alliance
191
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 13:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
WhyTry1 wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:DISCLAIMER: I am not a programmer or designer. My word is not law on this matter.
However: Spamming a button is never a feature and is never guaranteed to work. Spamming the warp button has never been a 100% guarantee escape and it was definitely not designed to be so. In fact, spamming any button can cause client side lag. It may help you get the perfect timing right, it is just as likely to drown the client or your connection and make things worse.
It is really explained by the word "spamming", which is never a good thing. Btw, this is true for almost all software. Even a simple text program will fall behind or filter out some commands when you mash your buttons fast enough, let alone a complex program like EVE.
My only advise is: do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. If your ship gets caught, your pod is in dire straights as well. It may get out, but it may go squish all the same if your attackers are paying attention. Thats a pretty poor response and excuse.. fix your damn game then...
See the disclaimer above.
All I said is: software breaks when you spam stuff. This is quite universal, especially where the internet is involved.
I also said that I am not a programmer and do not know how this works under the hood, but that I (and my colleague GMs) will keep our eye on this. GM Homonoia | Info Group | Game Master |
|
Lady Spank
GET OUT NASTY FACE
315
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 13:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
If the warp button highlighted accurately and at the right time after ship destruction (session change) then we wouldn't NEED to spam the warp button.
As it is in game waiting for it to light up will get you killed. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ Get Out, Nasty Face ~ (a¦á_a¦â)
Signature edited. Navigator. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1938
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 14:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
Bah.
Ping is distance; bandwidth is volume. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Barakkus
1172
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 14:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
Turn off camera shake, I lost a pod because of camera shake freezing my client after my ship went pop. After I turned off camera shake I haven't lost a pod to client freeze since. |
DangerosoDavo
EVE Is Dead
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 14:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
Barakkus wrote:Turn off camera shake, I lost a pod because of camera shake freezing my client after my ship went pop. After I turned off camera shake I haven't lost a pod to client freeze since.
client didnt freeze the client bugged out and wouldnt warp, the client itself was perfectly responsive just wasnt acting on the commands it was being given. |
|
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
74
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 15:06:00 -
[31] - Quote
Never spam any button you want to work. Tends to make the action not occur. This is a fact of working with computers, and the sooner you learn it the better. |
DangerosoDavo
EVE Is Dead
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 15:08:00 -
[32] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Never spam any button you want to work. Tends to make the action not occur. This is a fact of working with computers, and the sooner you learn it the better.
lol, this guy... |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
400
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 15:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
GM Homonoia wrote:DISCLAIMER: I am not a programmer or designer. My word is not law on this matter.
However: Spamming a button is never a feature and is never guaranteed to work. Spamming the warp button has never been a 100% guarantee escape and it was definitely not designed to be so. In fact, spamming any button can cause client side lag. It may help you get the perfect timing right, it is just as likely to drown the client or your connection and make things worse.
It is really explained by the word "spamming", which is never a good thing. Btw, this is true for almost all software. Even a simple text program will fall behind or filter out some commands when you mash your buttons fast enough, let alone a complex program like EVE.
My only advise is: do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. If your ship gets caught, your pod is in dire straights as well. It may get out, but it may go squish all the same if your attackers are paying attention.
+1
This game is about a lot of possible choices with a lot of possible consequences or not at all the moment you know what you're doing.
Loosing your ship must be something you consider has a NORMAL thing to happen, loosing your POD is something you have to consider something NORMAL to happen.
This said, you need to help yourself by educate yourself with game mechanics, tips from "scrubs" and "scum" also some of those requiring both named frequently "pirates" because it's easy to put a name on something. (most of those I've known from my beginning until now are the most incredible awesome/honourable people I've ever met in this game)
Yes it hurts when you loose your pod or ship whenever you get ganked at some belt, mission, or your pod by some insta lock arty trasher, sure it sucks and would make mad whoever is less hot head than me, but hey it's a game, you need to learn mechanics the hard way before you know how to deal with.
Even then, whenever you think you already know enough about, you'll always learn something from someone may it be some noob or some bitvet. |
De'Veldrin
Element 27 Intrepid Crossing
112
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 15:14:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ping (in network terms, it does have other uses) is a measure of time pure and simple - this can be easily derived by looking at its units(typically milliseconds).
It can be used to infer network latency between two specific nodes of a particular network (including the Internet), but it is not a direct meaure of anything except the time necessary to travel between two points on the network. What you make of that information is your own business. Unsub or don't.-á I don't care what your reasons are, and neither does anyone else.-á Just click the button and go away - or don't. |
DangerosoDavo
EVE Is Dead
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 15:26:00 -
[35] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:DISCLAIMER: I am not a programmer or designer. My word is not law on this matter.
However: Spamming a button is never a feature and is never guaranteed to work. Spamming the warp button has never been a 100% guarantee escape and it was definitely not designed to be so. In fact, spamming any button can cause client side lag. It may help you get the perfect timing right, it is just as likely to drown the client or your connection and make things worse.
It is really explained by the word "spamming", which is never a good thing. Btw, this is true for almost all software. Even a simple text program will fall behind or filter out some commands when you mash your buttons fast enough, let alone a complex program like EVE.
My only advise is: do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. If your ship gets caught, your pod is in dire straights as well. It may get out, but it may go squish all the same if your attackers are paying attention. +1 This game is about a lot of possible choices with a lot of possible consequences or not at all the moment you know what you're doing. Loosing your ship must be something you consider has a NORMAL thing to happen, loosing your POD is something you have to consider something NORMAL to happen. This said, you need to help yourself by educate yourself with game mechanics, tips from "scrubs" and "scum" also some of those requiring both named frequently "pirates" because it's easy to put a name on something. (most of those I've known from my beginning until now are the most incredible awesome/honourable people I've ever met in this game) Yes it hurts when you loose your pod or ship whenever you get ganked at some belt, mission, or your pod by some insta lock arty trasher, sure it sucks and would make mad whoever is less hot head than me, but hey it's a game, you need to learn mechanics the hard way before you know how to deal with. Even then, whenever you think you already know enough about, you'll always learn something from someone may it be some noob or some bitvet.
please take your fingers out of your eyes and stop spouting rubbish, read the thread before posting.
i agree that theres always more to learn, i agree that you shouldnt fly what you cant afford ot lose. i understand its just a game.
this: This said, you need to help yourself by educate yourself with game mechanics, tips from "scrubs" and "scum" also some of those requiring both named frequently "pirates" because it's easy to put a name on something. (most of those I've known from my beginning until now are the most incredible awesome/honourable people I've ever met in this game)
Yes it hurts when you loose your pod or ship whenever you get ganked at some belt, mission, or your pod by some insta lock arty trasher, sure it sucks and would make mad whoever is less hot head than me, but hey it's a game, you need to learn mechanics the hard way before you know how to deal with.
Reply: no. what we are discussing here is when you are unable to warp away for 5-9 seconds due to no fault of your own and no matter how much to try to escape when you normally should be able to under the circumstances. lossing a pod to an insta lock thrasher is a different story. please dont derail/change the subject. this is not about losing pods and hwo to deal with them this is about the game client being bugged.
read the thread before posting. |
Sadayiel
Inner Conflict
16
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 16:13:00 -
[36] - Quote
DangerosoDavo wrote:Tanya Powers wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:DISCLAIMER: I am not a programmer or designer. My word is not law on this matter.
However: Spamming a button is never a feature and is never guaranteed to work. Spamming the warp button has never been a 100% guarantee escape and it was definitely not designed to be so. In fact, spamming any button can cause client side lag. It may help you get the perfect timing right, it is just as likely to drown the client or your connection and make things worse.
It is really explained by the word "spamming", which is never a good thing. Btw, this is true for almost all software. Even a simple text program will fall behind or filter out some commands when you mash your buttons fast enough, let alone a complex program like EVE.
My only advise is: do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. If your ship gets caught, your pod is in dire straights as well. It may get out, but it may go squish all the same if your attackers are paying attention. +1 This game is about a lot of possible choices with a lot of possible consequences or not at all the moment you know what you're doing. Loosing your ship must be something you consider has a NORMAL thing to happen, loosing your POD is something you have to consider something NORMAL to happen. This said, you need to help yourself by educate yourself with game mechanics, tips from "scrubs" and "scum" also some of those requiring both named frequently "pirates" because it's easy to put a name on something. (most of those I've known from my beginning until now are the most incredible awesome/honourable people I've ever met in this game) Yes it hurts when you loose your pod or ship whenever you get ganked at some belt, mission, or your pod by some insta lock arty trasher, sure it sucks and would make mad whoever is less hot head than me, but hey it's a game, you need to learn mechanics the hard way before you know how to deal with. Even then, whenever you think you already know enough about, you'll always learn something from someone may it be some noob or some bitvet. please take your fingers out of your eyes and stop spouting rubbish, read the thread before posting. i agree that theres always more to learn, i agree that you shouldnt fly what you cant afford ot lose. i understand its just a game. this: This said, you need to help yourself by educate yourself with game mechanics, tips from "scrubs" and "scum" also some of those requiring both named frequently "pirates" because it's easy to put a name on something. (most of those I've known from my beginning until now are the most incredible awesome/honourable people I've ever met in this game) Yes it hurts when you loose your pod or ship whenever you get ganked at some belt, mission, or your pod by some insta lock arty trasher, sure it sucks and would make mad whoever is less hot head than me, but hey it's a game, you need to learn mechanics the hard way before you know how to deal with. Reply: no. what we are discussing here is when you are unable to warp away for 5-9 seconds due to no fault of your own and no matter how much to try to escape when you normally should be able to under the circumstances. lossing a pod to an insta lock thrasher is a different story. please dont derail/change the subject. this is not about losing pods and hwo to deal with them this is about the game client being bugged. read the thread before posting.
The EVE-O fora ate my post but i recall a fairly odd bug from incarna release that may be related.
Somehow when you spam warp before your ship is destroyed the game bugs and the actual celestial you are warping on the overview doesn't work (be either station/belt/gate/planet) back in the day a rather quick fix was target a different celestial after your pod shows up then hit warp.
This is the kind of bug i was refering on my previous post on this thread (it's not related to lag/ping or whatever mostly the client) and i think it was discussed sometime ago, but well i can;t tell if this was fixed and somehow resurfaced or it was working as intended. |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
92
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 19:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
When MMOs first came out I didn't bother with them because it was understood that being good at them had more to do with your computer and internet connection than any actual game skill.
EVE suffers from this in the extreme when it comes to podkilling mechanics.
Your implants can be a very important part of your strategy/fit. Yet the actual mechanics of how you save your or lose your pod are almost completely out of a players control. I really think this is a weak point of the game that ccp should work on.
Either make the game work so players can get their pod out or they can't. But make the game actually work, and work reliably.
Right now you are supposed to spam warp because that is how you get your pod out. Its just that it is a crap shoot whether it will work or not.
Yet CCP even put more emphasis on this broken aspect of the game by showing implants. I know players wanted it so I don't blame them. But they should make this aspect of the game work reliably.
The problem with client side lag started with incarna it's not new to this release. It may be worse now I am not sure. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Sadayiel
Inner Conflict
18
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 19:48:00 -
[38] - Quote
Cearain wrote:When MMOs first came out I didn't bother with them because it was understood that being good at them had more to do with your computer and internet connection than any actual game skill.
EVE suffers from this in the extreme when it comes to podkilling mechanics.
Your implants can be a very important part of your strategy/fit. Yet the actual mechanics of how you save your or lose your pod are almost completely out of a players control. I really think this is a weak point of the game that ccp should work on.
Either make the game work so players can get their pod out or they can't. But make the game actually work, and work reliably.
Right now you are supposed to spam warp because that is how you get your pod out. Its just that it is a crap shoot whether it will work or not.
Yet CCP even put more emphasis on this broken aspect of the game by showing implants. I know players wanted it so I don't blame them. But they should make this aspect of the game work reliably.
The problem with client side lag started with incarna it's not new to this release. It may be worse now I am not sure.
I'm sorry wich part of after your ship blows up, you are granted a 2nd chance to run away before truly die and be penalized (possible Sp loss/ buy a new clone)
The fact ppl was using a fairly odd/tricky mechanic to get an almost insta warp again before they could even get locked. TBH if you await until your ship explode and then after the pod shows you warp the enemy only can catch you with faster than 1x sec lock tacklers or with Warp bubbles. (assuming having a decent Isp connection and not lagging badly.
TL;DR complain about not be able to use an insta warp when ship explode it's like complain about not be able to instawarp with any kind of ship after undock/use stargate. the only reason ppl ignored this with pods it's just because the pod has been ignored as something valuable aside the little grief/nuissance of get a new clone. |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
92
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 20:17:00 -
[39] - Quote
Sadayiel wrote:Cearain wrote:When MMOs first came out I didn't bother with them because it was understood that being good at them had more to do with your computer and internet connection than any actual game skill.
EVE suffers from this in the extreme when it comes to podkilling mechanics.
Your implants can be a very important part of your strategy/fit. Yet the actual mechanics of how you save your or lose your pod are almost completely out of a players control. I really think this is a weak point of the game that ccp should work on.
Either make the game work so players can get their pod out or they can't. But make the game actually work, and work reliably.
Right now you are supposed to spam warp because that is how you get your pod out. Its just that it is a crap shoot whether it will work or not.
Yet CCP even put more emphasis on this broken aspect of the game by showing implants. I know players wanted it so I don't blame them. But they should make this aspect of the game work reliably.
The problem with client side lag started with incarna it's not new to this release. It may be worse now I am not sure. I'm sorry wich part of after your ship blows up, you are granted a 2nd chance to run away before truly die and be penalized (possible Sp loss/ buy a new clone) The fact ppl was using a fairly odd/tricky mechanic to get an almost insta warp again before they could even get locked. TBH if you await until your ship explode and then after the pod shows you warp the enemy only can catch you with faster than 1x sec lock tacklers or with Warp bubbles. (assuming having a decent Isp connection and not lagging badly. TL;DR complain about not be able to use an insta warp when ship explode it's like complain about not be able to instawarp with any kind of ship after undock/use stargate. the only reason ppl ignored this with pods it's just because the pod has been ignored as something valuable aside the little grief/nuissance of get a new clone.
You still don't get it.
We should either be able to instawarp or we shouldn't.
I don't care what they pick. But either way the mechanic should work reliably. It shouldn't be entirely dependant on your computer hardware/client lag or internet connection. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
293
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 20:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
You shouldn't try to warp away when shot, you should just... pop.
Or just press the warp button once. Wait, nothing happens? There's the whole reason ppl spam that button. Kick the lawnmower if it doesn't start. It doesn't help, but what else can you do? Perhaps CCP can feed the hamsters so that they respond to command the first time. |
|
whatever whateverson
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 20:40:00 -
[41] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Lady Spank wrote:DangerosoDavo wrote:Bumblefck wrote:Only 30mb fibre optic? You might as well have dial up lol england is behind the times. 30mb is considered fast. the fastest possible is 100mb in england. (residential) still its a download speed of 3.7MB/s ish. Ignore him, he just makes badposts to wind people up. Actually, this is a fairly serious post. I'm from the UK too, but I currently live in Japan. I also have a fibre optic connection, but it is a 100MB line, for about the equivalent of -ú25/month. I was being a little facetious in my post but that was more to illustrate the paucity of BT's infrastructure Anyway, sucks to lose your pod dude
Yeah and my line is between 500-1000mbs |
Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
128
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 21:24:00 -
[42] - Quote
GM Homonoia wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:DISCLAIMER: I am not a programmer or designer. My word is not law on this matter.
However: Spamming a button is never a feature and is never guaranteed to work. Spamming the warp button has never been a 100% guarantee escape and it was definitely not designed to be so. In fact, spamming any button can cause client side lag. It may help you get the perfect timing right, it is just as likely to drown the client or your connection and make things worse.
It is really explained by the word "spamming", which is never a good thing. Btw, this is true for almost all software. Even a simple text program will fall behind or filter out some commands when you mash your buttons fast enough, let alone a complex program like EVE.
My only advise is: do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. If your ship gets caught, your pod is in dire straights as well. It may get out, but it may go squish all the same if your attackers are paying attention. Thats a pretty poor response and excuse.. fix your damn game then... See the disclaimer above. All I said is: software breaks when you spam stuff. This is quite universal, especially where the internet is involved. I also said that I am not a programmer and do not know how this works under the hood, but that I (and my colleague GMs) will keep our eye on this.
Then it is settled. For the next expansion CCP should fix the internet. No more excuses CCP!!!
/me cracks whip |
Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
88
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 21:37:00 -
[43] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:DISCLAIMER: I am not a programmer or designer. My word is not law on this matter.
However: Spamming a button is never a feature and is never guaranteed to work. Spamming the warp button has never been a 100% guarantee escape and it was definitely not designed to be so. In fact, spamming any button can cause client side lag. It may help you get the perfect timing right, it is just as likely to drown the client or your connection and make things worse.
It is really explained by the word "spamming", which is never a good thing. Btw, this is true for almost all software. Even a simple text program will fall behind or filter out some commands when you mash your buttons fast enough, let alone a complex program like EVE.
My only advise is: do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. If your ship gets caught, your pod is in dire straights as well. It may get out, but it may go squish all the same if your attackers are paying attention. Thats a pretty poor response and excuse.. fix your damn game then... See the disclaimer above. All I said is: software breaks when you spam stuff. This is quite universal, especially where the internet is involved. I also said that I am not a programmer and do not know how this works under the hood, but that I (and my colleague GMs) will keep our eye on this. Then it is settled. For the next expansion CCP should fix the internet. No more excuses CCP!!! /me cracks whip
And make it faster :trollface:
|
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
92
|
Posted - 2011.12.06 21:42:00 -
[44] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:WhyTry1 wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:DISCLAIMER: I am not a programmer or designer. My word is not law on this matter.
However: Spamming a button is never a feature and is never guaranteed to work. Spamming the warp button has never been a 100% guarantee escape and it was definitely not designed to be so. In fact, spamming any button can cause client side lag. It may help you get the perfect timing right, it is just as likely to drown the client or your connection and make things worse.
It is really explained by the word "spamming", which is never a good thing. Btw, this is true for almost all software. Even a simple text program will fall behind or filter out some commands when you mash your buttons fast enough, let alone a complex program like EVE.
My only advise is: do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. If your ship gets caught, your pod is in dire straights as well. It may get out, but it may go squish all the same if your attackers are paying attention. Thats a pretty poor response and excuse.. fix your damn game then... See the disclaimer above. All I said is: software breaks when you spam stuff. This is quite universal, especially where the internet is involved. I also said that I am not a programmer and do not know how this works under the hood, but that I (and my colleague GMs) will keep our eye on this. Then it is settled. For the next expansion CCP should fix the internet. No more excuses CCP!!! /me cracks whip
Or not make it so their game mechanics are not so entirely reliant upon the connection quality.
For example in ship versus ship combat the connection might have some small impact, but its really minor. But when it comes to losing pods in high or low sec its almost always completely dependant on the internet or client lag. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 08:52:00 -
[45] - Quote
Almost everyone in this thread didn't get what the OP was talking about. Or so I think. What happened was that the warp drive was supposedly active but the pod did not warp. Like I described in my own post:
Terrorfrodo wrote:I had the same problem a few days ago. My blockade runner with double WCS (=4 warp strength) was scrambled by a single Rapier. When trying to warp away I got the error message, but it still said the warp drive was active. After a while I cancelled the warp, restarted it and warped away. Of course you don't have so much time in a pod.
A rather serious bug.
If I initiate warp (speedometer turns into "warping" and the ship starts aligning) and my ship or pod is successfully warp-scrambled by an attacker before I actually enter warp, the warp drive is switched off, I slow down and the speedometer reverts to a display of my speed in meters per second.
If I am not warp-scrambled before I am aligned, then I warp away.
It's either one or the other.
Now what happened here is that my ship was stuck in a zombie-state of the warp drive being active, and thus not accepting any commands that are not valid when in warp, but also not actually warping even long after the ship was aligned. |
XIRUSPHERE
In Bacon We Trust
150
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 09:16:00 -
[46] - Quote
A small tactical nuke was deployed into the code that's involved with the overview and registering commands. It's been pretty obvious since Incarna and appears to be gaining new and amazing quirks such as laughing at previously rock solid mechanics and performance from the overview.
Would really love a blue bar to at least come out and say " yeah our bad brah, just need a little time in the shop till she's fixed and fly safe ". The advantage of a bad memory is that one can enjoy the same good things for the first time several times.
One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear. |
Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
51
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 09:24:00 -
[47] - Quote
I actually had this issue yesterday on an alt that got podded (and shouldn't have under the circumstances - two otherwise well-timed clicks to a celestial are usually sufficient). But! I'm already well aware of the cause - Canada's third world tubes.
Canadian telecoms have no incentive to upgrade infrastructure due to laws that they essentially wrote themselves that prevent anyone from competing with them, so we're stuck with what seems like the slowest, garbage-assiest internet in the world that costs, like, ~$80/mo. for 20Mb/s (with $2/GB penalties for going over your paltry monthly bandwidth allotment ... oh also 'traffic shaping') in the nation's own capital city. I mean, hey, what's the incentive to upgrade infrastructure when it's just that profitable and you're under no threat of outside competition! Yay for federally enforced duopolies!
alskdhg;ah'; |
Near Death
Wolfsbrigade
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 10:53:00 -
[48] - Quote
I were once told by a GM when i petitioned something along the lines of #0's problems.
Insta-warping is not a feature of the game. It is a bug. You are supposed to be in a 30 second stasis period (atleast according to this GM) after your ship is shot. I ofcourse called bullsh!t on this and didn't care to take this further.
Anyway, this was an official response to a petition were I was unable to warp away after getting my ship shot to atoms. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
234
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 11:12:00 -
[49] - Quote
GM Homonoia wrote:
All I said is: software breaks when you spam stuff. This is quite universal, especially where the internet is involved.
I also said that I am not a programmer and do not know how this works under the hood, but that I (and my colleague GMs) will keep our eye on this.
Then make a warp button that greys out after one click and is no longer spammable. The results (warp or not) are left entirely to the host after the single "warp away" command is received, instead of a constant stream of requests. This is absolutely trivial to program.
Edit: I think the whole reason for spamming in the first place is the lack of feedback when the button is pressed. You press it and the game seems to not be doing anything for a number of milliseconds. Greying out the button both provides feedback (yes, I know you pressed the button) and prevents spamming. |
Mrs Sooperdudespaceman
Loud On The Forums Silent In Game
29
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 12:20:00 -
[50] - Quote
I too have hard the 'in warp' message appear and my ship/pod does not warp. There is no 'unable to warp due to blah blah blah' message either. This doesn't happen all the time but it has been happening for at least 6 months. |
|
Anja Talis
Mimidae Risk Solutions
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 12:51:00 -
[51] - Quote
This happened to a corp mate the other day. We were sat on a gate, I was in a BC he was in a BS. We both warped out to a station. I aligned, got up to speed and warped. The corp mate, aligned, got up to speed and then just sat there with the speedo not moving. After a few seconds he hit ctrl space and warp to again and he immediately warps.
Definitely something wrong here. |
DangerosoDavo
EVE Is Dead
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 13:25:00 -
[52] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Almost everyone in this thread didn't get what the OP was talking about. Or so I think. What happened was that the warp drive was supposedly active but the pod did not warp. Like I described in my own post:
-snip-
Now what happened here is that my ship was stuck in a zombie-state of the warp drive being active, and thus not accepting any commands that are not valid when in warp, but also not actually warping even long after the ship was aligned.
Okay to clarify what happened in my situation. What you say was close but there are some small differences.
The speed counter still just said 0m/s as far as i remember. Yet i was getting feedback in the box saying already in warp. This tells me the game thought i was in warp when i wasnt. (a dodgey state?)
Something isnt right whatever the bug is. (it only happens some of the time also which is even stranger)
Somebody also said that it could be an exploit with warping to stop the other guy warping? another post also says it maybe a selected item bug where if you select a celestial pre-shipdeath the selected item is bugged when you are put into a pod hence being unable to warp, but i tried with a second celestial after i realised nothing was happening without any success.
hope this clarifys the situation. |
Dante Chusuk
Sicarius. The Kadeshi
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 13:52:00 -
[53] - Quote
For added geek factor you do realise the same way there is a difference between b and B (a factor of 8) there's a difference between m and M (quite a bit more than a factor of 8) ...
whatever whateverson wrote: Yeah and my line is between 500-1000mbs
So the above is actually 0.5 to 1 bit per second, slightly less than the intended 500 to 1000 Million bits per second (or 62.5 to 125 Million Bytes per second). |
DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
478
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 13:57:00 -
[54] - Quote
I'M HITTING THE KEYBOARD WITH MY FACE BUT MY SHIP IS NOT WINNING. |
Cybele Lanier
Viziam Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 14:55:00 -
[55] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Then make a warp button that greys out after one click and is no longer spammable. The results (warp or not) are left entirely to the host after the single "warp away" command is received, instead of a constant stream of requests. This is absolutely trivial to program.
The directional scanner already had a similar change. |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
92
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 15:18:00 -
[56] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Almost everyone in this thread didn't get what the OP was talking about. Or so I think. What happened was that the warp drive was supposedly active but the pod did not warp. Like I described in my own post:
If only there was just one problem with warping your pod out eve would be a much better game. I think the point is there are so many glitches with this aspect of the game its just a complete crap shoot.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Alexa Coates
LNTC
13
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 15:31:00 -
[57] - Quote
Yesterday while jumping around I too found a problem. In a couple systems, (we'll use bawilan for this) I got an error upon hitting the gate saying something along the lines of 'you cannot leave bawilan due to problems with the space time continuum'. Being in highsec, it wasn't too much of an issue, but if I was running from a gang in low I would have been dead on the gate, as it happened as many times as I pressed jump. I will file a bug report when I get back online. Figured this would fit in ops thread. Love my Gallente Federation Navy ships! |
Handsome Hussein
185
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 17:35:00 -
[58] - Quote
Alexa Coates wrote:Yesterday while jumping around I too found a problem. In a couple systems, (we'll use bawilan for this) I got an error upon hitting the gate saying something along the lines of 'you cannot leave bawilan due to problems with the space time continuum'. Being in highsec, it wasn't too much of an issue, but if I was running from a gang in low I would have been dead on the gate, as it happened as many times as I pressed jump. I will file a bug report when I get back online. Figured this would fit in ops thread. I encountered this a few times last night while in a pod in low-sec (kind of pissed me off!) Might have something to do with TiDi?
Also, I took Barakkus' advice and turned off camera shake, worked wonders. Far less lag when my ship got blown up. Instead of spamming the button I willed myself, through the soothing powers of alcohol, to calmly click the button twice, and my pod warped out safely. BEFORE CRUCIBLE EVE WAS ON CRUISE CONTROL. After Crucible EVE didn't need cruise control. |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
96
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 17:54:00 -
[59] - Quote
Klandi wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:
That's close, but not entirely true. .
Sorry to disagree but ping does not and cannot represent speed in any form. Please reference any documentation on ping and its elements and forget all interpretation. Speed is constant on any type of network at 186,282 miles per second. Fact. What you are referring to is the amount of information that can be carried AT THAT SPEED which is always variable and for ease of use is referred to as speed - but wrongly so. And as a registered nerd, Zagdul - I will not shut up
You seem to have failed basic physics. The speed of light is only 299 792km/s in a vacuum. At BEST light in a network will be traveling at 185 057km/s as the core of optic fibre typically has a refractive index of 1.62. And that's assuming it's a solid piece of optic fibre from the source to the destination, which usually runs into sever signal degradation issue at distances over a couple hundred km. |
vlrqsdrrgtt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 18:26:00 -
[60] - Quote
I have these navigations bugs:
- in fleet fights the overview freezes and distances to other ships are displayed wrong
- if I jump in a Covert ops ship in a hostile camp after the patch due to the lag, it give me way more the message "you can not cloak, because you are still cloaked." I did not have that before the patch in a long time.
- I give the ship a command and it might not take it. Warp command is it often. Another can be Stop overheat, and I do not mean stop the cycle, it does not stopp cycling anymore until it is burned out. |
|
gfldex
68
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 18:39:00 -
[61] - Quote
GM Homonoia wrote:DISCLAIMER: I am not a programmer or designer. My word is not law on this matter.
That might be the reason why you wrote the following bullshit.
GM Homonoia wrote:Spamming the warp button has never been a 100% guarantee escape and it was definitely not designed to be so.
It used to work so well that anybody in his right mind was doing it all the time. That has changed. Why was it changed? Was it a side effect or a change of policy. If it is the former it's a bug. If it's the latter it needs to be in the patch notes.
GM Homonoia wrote:Even a simple text program will fall behind or filter out some commands when you mash your buttons fast enough, let alone a complex program like EVE.
I don't know what kind of computers you are using but I can't think of any text program that would fail to process the input buffer so hard that a human being could outperform it. I'm terribly sorry but you reasoning can only be seen as a fairly bad compilation of lame excuses.
Edit: It would be nice to be allowed to post on this forum without having to take any post into the clipboard to prevent it from being eaten by a bug. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
486
|
Posted - 2011.12.07 18:43:00 -
[62] - Quote
gfldex wrote:
That might be the reason why you wrote the following bullshit.
It used to work so well that anybody in his right mind was doing it all the time. That has changed. Why was it changed? Was it a side effect or a change of policy. If it is the former it's a bug. If it's the latter it needs to be in the patch notes.
I don't know what kind of computers you are using but I can't think of any text program that would fail to process the input buffer so hard that a human being could outperform it. I'm terribly sorry but you reasoning can only be seen as a fairly bad compilation of lame excuses.
Edit: It would be nice to be allowed to post on this forum without having to take any post into the clipboard to prevent it from being eaten by a bug.
honestly I'm glad someone said it, but yeah...
that was a terrible answer
The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
94
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 15:54:00 -
[63] - Quote
Near Death wrote:I were once told by a GM when i petitioned something along the lines of #0's problems.
Insta-warping is not a feature of the game. It is a bug. You are supposed to be in a 30 second stasis period (atleast according to this GM) after your ship is shot. I ofcourse called bullsh!t on this and didn't care to take this further.
Anyway, this was an official response to a petition were I was unable to warp away after getting my ship shot to atoms.
This combined with the input from the other gm makes it sound like we are exploiting a bug to spam warp when you are about to lose your ship in order to get your pod out.
What is going on ccp is this exploiting a bug? Are we supposed to wait out the session timer before we warp our pod out? Why is the pod following the warp command that we actually gave our ship not the pod?
Is time dilation effecting this mechanic?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
442
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 15:58:00 -
[64] - Quote
Karn Dulake wrote:Dangerous Dave
Only an Englishman could have a name like that. :)
Like op said, it's because they're behind the age
Also: logs show nothing.
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Solstice Project
Cult of Personality
267
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Posted - 2011.12.08 16:34:00 -
[65] - Quote
Two times in a row i didn't get podded by thrashers, after they popped my ship. Odd. I wonder what you guys, who died, are doing wrong.
Only two times out of plenty it happened that the pods warped out before i had them pointed. Odd. I wonder what the others, who i podded, were doing wrong.
*snickers* xD Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Shad0wsFury
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
41
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Posted - 2011.12.08 16:52:00 -
[66] - Quote
How shocked should I be that a GM doesn't seem to understand generally accepted game mechanics?
I probably should be far more shocked than I am, which is sad in itself.
It's pretty common sense that spamming leads to lag, but that doesn't change the fact that it was a tactic that worked, and for a very long time has been in common use. Maybe there were minor changes in some bit of code somewhere which changed how the whole thing works, intentional or not. Regardless the end result for the player is that a game mechanic changed.
It probably bears mentioning that what a CCP employee might see as a game mechanic and the definition a player might give to the same term are probably very different things. See, for me as a player, a game mechanic is simply the reality of how the game functions, which I can then build tactics AROUND to accomplish the things I wish to accomplish. These tactics are never fool proof, because no plan ever really is. On the other hand, CCP likely sees a game mechanic as transitory things which they can manipulate at any given time, for any given reason, to change the way the game functions. Both definitions are probably correct in some way.
However
When CCP goes and fiddles with things, even minor things, they often do not explain the change they made, or even acknowledge that they made a change at all. THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST FRUSTRATING ASPECTS OF BEING A PLAYER. I'm cool with you changing whatever you want whenever you want, AS LONG AS YOU TELL ME WHAT YOU CHANGED. Such "ninja-nerfs" as they're called by players are getting very tiresome and increasingly frustrating. Be upfront with what you change, regardless of whether you deem it a bug or exploit or WHATEVER, and a lot of players will be a lot less agitated when you change little things like this. I realize a lot of work goes into big releases like Crucible, but seriously if you're not keeping records of EVERYTHING you change and how much work goes into any given item, then you really should be, and there should never be a reason to hide this information from the players. No, you shouldn't give them a list of known exploits, but when an exploit is fixed, it should never, ever, be a secret.
Also, your GMs clearly need more experience playing EVE, and that experience should be well-rounded, not just shooting players 23/7 or rocks 23/7 or running manufacturing jobs or any other single thing 23/7. And if you can't manage that, maybe you should assign specific GMs with specific experience to specific areas of interest like PvP, mining, et-cetera.
edit/ps. I've been running into this bug (?) since Incarna was released. I heard about it from some hardcore lowsec PvPers, and I eventually was in lowsec and got 0wned and tested it out, and ended up podded lol (luckily with no worthwhile implants). |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
94
|
Posted - 2011.12.08 17:01:00 -
[67] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Two times in a row i didn't get podded by thrashers, after they popped my ship. Odd. I wonder what you guys, who died, are doing wrong.
Only two times out of plenty it happened that the pods warped out before i had them pointed. Odd. I wonder what the others, who i podded, were doing wrong.
*snickers* xD
That's the thing they may not have done anything wrong. If you spam warp whether you are podded or not has nothing to do with how you play the game. It has to do with things outside your (or your opponents) control. Like client and internet lag.
If the game worked reliably then there wouldn't be an issue. But it doesn't. Both sides can play the game exactly the same way and sometimes you can warp out sometimes you can't.
IMO that is a flaw in the game. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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GM Homonoia
Game Masters C C P Alliance
196
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Posted - 2011.12.09 08:26:00 -
[68] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Near Death wrote:I were once told by a GM when i petitioned something along the lines of #0's problems.
Insta-warping is not a feature of the game. It is a bug. You are supposed to be in a 30 second stasis period (atleast according to this GM) after your ship is shot. I ofcourse called bullsh!t on this and didn't care to take this further.
Anyway, this was an official response to a petition were I was unable to warp away after getting my ship shot to atoms. This combined with the input from the other gm makes it sound like we are exploiting a bug to spam warp when you are about to lose your ship in order to get your pod out. What is going on ccp is this exploiting a bug? Are we supposed to wait out the session timer before we warp our pod out? Why is the pod following the warp command that we actually gave our ship not the pod? Is time dilation effecting this mechanic?
I think that GM message has been misinterpreted or taken out of context. After your ship is destroyed you go into a session change, namely moving from your ship to your pod. This means that you cannot jump, dock, or go through any other session change for 30 seconds (which is now 20 seconds). It is certainly not an exploit to spam the warp button.
Time dilation should not affect it.
And your pod following the command you gave your ship is most likely caused by the fact that often when you still see your ship on your screen, on the server you re already in your pod. Thus the server thinks you gave that command to your pod and not your ship, which was already removed server side. GM Homonoia | Info Group | Game Master |
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THXBYE
Elite War Squad
31
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Posted - 2011.12.09 08:32:00 -
[69] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:I had the same problem a few days ago. My blockade runner with double WCS (=4 warp strength) was scrambled by a single Rapier. When trying to warp away I got the error message, but it still said the warp drive was active. After a while I cancelled the warp, restarted it and warped away. Of course you don't have so much time in a pod.
A rather serious bug. This is very accurate.
I lost a tengu one time the same way, tried to warp and initiated warp (bar full and after aligning done) however it stayed like that for a good 1 minute at least and never really got into warp itself, until they blew my ship.
Universal PvP System Mode: ..default.aspx?g=posts&t=38634 In Game Laws, Fines and Taxes: ..default.aspx?g=posts&t=36124 Stations and NPC Services Costs: ..default.aspx?g=posts&t=39038 |
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GM Homonoia
Game Masters C C P Alliance
196
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Posted - 2011.12.09 08:33:00 -
[70] - Quote
gfldex wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:DISCLAIMER: I am not a programmer or designer. My word is not law on this matter. That might be the reason why you wrote the following bullshit. GM Homonoia wrote:Spamming the warp button has never been a 100% guarantee escape and it was definitely not designed to be so. It used to work so well that anybody in his right mind was doing it all the time. That has changed. Why was it changed? Was it a side effect or a change of policy. If it is the former it's a bug. If it's the latter it needs to be in the patch notes. GM Homonoia wrote:Even a simple text program will fall behind or filter out some commands when you mash your buttons fast enough, let alone a complex program like EVE. I don't know what kind of computers you are using but I can't think of any text program that would fail to process the input buffer so hard that a human being could outperform it. I'm terribly sorry but you reasoning can only be seen as a fairly bad compilation of lame excuses. Edit: It would be nice to be allowed to post on this forum without having to take any post into the clipboard to prevent it from being eaten by a bug.
I may not be a programmer, but I have a very solid background in both software development and EVE; I would not comment on these things if I was completely clueless. I am aware that spamming the warp button greatly increased your chances of getting out. When I was simply a player and not a GM we told our alliance grunts to do exactly that. However, it was never a full proof thing. I lost quite a few pods despite that tactic.
We also did not change that 'mechanic', not consciously. Some code may have been introduced that affects that particular behavior as a side effect, but considering that behavior is partly there because the way client/server communication works across the internet, that possible behavioral change is more likely a technical thing and not a design change.
As I said earlier, this is not a game mechanic, but the way the technology behaves. If the tech is changes, behavior might change. However, even though it is not an official design, if the behavior changed in a way that is undesirable me and my colleagues will keep an eye on things. And any solid feedback is welcome. GM Homonoia | Info Group | Game Master |
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GM Homonoia
Game Masters C C P Alliance
196
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Posted - 2011.12.09 08:41:00 -
[71] - Quote
Shad0wsFury wrote: When CCP goes and fiddles with things, even minor things, they often do not explain the change they made, or even acknowledge that they made a change at all. THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST FRUSTRATING ASPECTS OF BEING A PLAYER. I'm cool with you changing whatever you want whenever you want, AS LONG AS YOU TELL ME WHAT YOU CHANGED. Such "ninja-nerfs" as they're called by players are getting very tiresome and increasingly frustrating. Be upfront with what you change, regardless of whether you deem it a bug or exploit or WHATEVER, and a lot of players will be a lot less agitated when you change little things like this. I realize a lot of work goes into big releases like Crucible, but seriously if you're not keeping records of EVERYTHING you change and how much work goes into any given item, then you really should be, and there should never be a reason to hide this information from the players. No, you shouldn't give them a list of known exploits, but when an exploit is fixed, it should never, ever, be a secret.
As I said before, if the 'warp pod after ship destruction' behavior changed, then it was a side effect, not an intentional change. We try to list every possible change we make to our patch notes. Nothing is left out intentionally with the exception of certain exploits.
Shad0wsFury wrote: Also, your GMs clearly need more experience playing EVE, and that experience should be well-rounded, not just shooting players 23/7 or rocks 23/7 or running manufacturing jobs or any other single thing 23/7. And if you can't manage that, maybe you should assign specific GMs with specific experience to specific areas of interest like PvP, mining, et-cetera.
We have specific GMs with specific specialties. We also have all-round GMs. Of course, some GMs are more experienced than others, bot those dealing with game play issues generally have quite a bit of EVE experience. Personally I have been playing since January 2006. I have flown almost every ship type, I have been in alliance leadership (space holding/conquering), I have been an industrialist and a PvPer, lived in NPC 0.0 and empire. The only things I have never really done is wormhole occupancy, T3 ships, suicide ganking and extensive mission running (mining ftw!) GM Homonoia | Info Group | Game Master |
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ghost st
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.12.09 08:50:00 -
[72] - Quote
Just set autopilot, and activate when boned. Ship dies and autopilot instawarps the egg to saftey |
SmashTech
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
54
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Posted - 2011.12.09 09:04:00 -
[73] - Quote
Mining :cripes: |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
62
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Posted - 2011.12.09 09:16:00 -
[74] - Quote
Fix your game, CCP. And stop giving lame answers that try to deflect blame to your customers. The log shows that the problem is on your end.
People spend billions of ISK on implants that they PVP in because they have enough confidence in themselves (and their internet connection) to risk being podded in the event they lose their ship. They shouldn't have to worry about being podded by your ****** software, too.
If I'm in a pod, not in a bubble, not pointed, not scrammed and I hit the warp-to button, and your server receives that input, I'd damn well better warp. Not sometimes. Not most of the time. Every ******* time. |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
229
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Posted - 2011.12.09 09:50:00 -
[75] - Quote
Homonoia, you are a great GM, and that explains why you replied like one But the thread really needs an actual dev.
Spamming warp was not a 100% thing, and as a GM, you need to stick to that to avoid bogus reinbursement petitions. But for us, it is/was a 99% safe way to get the pod out. Out of almost 200 losses in empire, I've lost exactly 1 pod since I learned to spam warp. Most people who PVP, especially outside 0.0, take that into account when considering which implants to plug in.
If this behaviour changes (can't confirm that it has, haven't lost a ship in crucible yet), it will affect the risk/reward for expensive implant sets. You can argue whether that's good or bad, but it's a change that affects game balance.
Saying that spamming warp is taking advantage of a bug may be technically correct. But it's been there so long, and players have used it so much, it has become a feature. Not something you can dismiss as "hey it's not supposed to work". What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
2
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Posted - 2011.12.09 11:15:00 -
[76] - Quote
1) Given a standing start, A pod can warp before any ship gets a lock on it
2) If you click warp the instant your pod "appears" in space you can warp before anything has locked it
3) "spamming" warp was not an attempt to utilize some bug, it simply meant that the millisecond your pod appears you would have clicked to initiate warp. If you are clicking slightly before, during, and after your ship is being/been destroyed, you make it more likely you will have clicked warp the second your pod loadsThis cuts down on A) Reaction time and B) some of the weirdness that occurs when your ship pops and others may see your pod before you do. The "insta warp" refered to by some, is exactly the same warp out time you would have if you were D.A.R.Y.L and you managed to click the warp button once precisly when your pod appeared.
Incidentally, a good tackler will also be spam clicking to try to lock your pod as it appears.
4) Pre patch this method would work, as a previous poster has indicated, 99 times out of 100. There was still many ways to get podded, but preparedness and correct fits (a suitable soak) would give your implants a good survivability.
5) If post patch this does not work, then CCP have borked something.
Suggesting people were abusing the system by clicking impatiently is unfair. Similar situations whereby people click repeatedly are attempting to dock whilst under fire, and attempting to jump through a gate whilst sitting out an aggro timer under fire and when attempting to warp to a celestial whilst mwding away from a target who has them warp disrupted.
SKUNK |
Bunnyy Lebowski
35
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Posted - 2011.12.09 11:32:00 -
[77] - Quote
I think I am going to end up on top of a clock tower with a high powered sniper rifle picking off women and children if I keep seeing people attempt to make intelligent points while using the word "loose" when what they really mean is "lose".
It's not "loosing" your ship, it's "losing" your ship. Christ....
OH and BY THE WAY
It isn't "full proof" it's "fool proof" as in even a ****** can't screw it up. Entrapped in a vile world, where the endgames all the same as every other...
...We're only here to die... |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
2
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Posted - 2011.12.09 11:34:00 -
[78] - Quote
Bunnyy Lebowski wrote:I think I am going to end up on top of a clock tower with a high powered sniper rifle picking off women and children if I keep seeing people attempt to make intelligent points while using the word "loose" when what they really mean is "lose".
It's not "loosing" your ship, it's "losing" your ship. Christ....
I could care less
SKUNK |
Bunnyy Lebowski
35
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Posted - 2011.12.09 11:38:00 -
[79] - Quote
Le Skunk wrote:Bunnyy Lebowski wrote:I think I am going to end up on top of a clock tower with a high powered sniper rifle picking off women and children if I keep seeing people attempt to make intelligent points while using the word "loose" when what they really mean is "lose".
It's not "loosing" your ship, it's "losing" your ship. Christ.... I could care less SKUNK
And a herp derp to you too, sir! Entrapped in a vile world, where the endgames all the same as every other...
...We're only here to die... |
Uppsy Daisy
Deteis Industries
24
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Posted - 2011.12.09 12:08:00 -
[80] - Quote
Le Skunk wrote:1) Given a standing start, A pod can warp before any ship gets a lock on it
2) If you click warp the instant your pod "appears" in space you can warp before anything has locked it
3) "spamming" warp was not an attempt to utilize some bug, it simply meant that the millisecond your pod appears you would have clicked to initiate warp. If you are clicking slightly before, during, and after your ship is being/been destroyed, you make it more likely you will have clicked warp the second your pod loadsThis cuts down on A) Reaction time and B) some of the weirdness that occurs when your ship pops and others may see your pod before you do. The "insta warp" refered to by some, is exactly the same warp out time you would have if you were D.A.R.Y.L and you managed to click the warp button once precisly when your pod appeared.
Incidentally, a good tackler will also be spam clicking to try to lock your pod as it appears.
4) Pre patch this method would work, as a previous poster has indicated, 99 times out of 100. There was still many ways to get podded, but preparedness and correct fits (a suitable soak) would give your implants a good survivability.
5) If post patch this does not work, then CCP have borked something.
Suggesting people were abusing the system by clicking impatiently is unfair. Similar situations whereby people click repeatedly are attempting to dock whilst under fire, and attempting to jump through a gate whilst sitting out an aggro timer under fire and when attempting to warp to a celestial whilst mwding away from a target who has them warp disrupted.
SKUNK
This is right on.
My guess is that some time in the last year they changed the client as part of the war against lag, so that when you hammer a button 50 times repeatedly it does not necessarily send all of those commands to the server.
This *would* help the lag situation, but would have the side effect of loosing the guaranteed insta-warp that pods had.
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Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
231
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Posted - 2011.12.09 12:21:00 -
[81] - Quote
At the risk of getting flamed.
We already have something like 10 seconds of invulnerability for ships coming out of warp, presumably to let them load grid. Would it be too gamebreaking to extend that to pods as the ship dies? What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Eisen Obliema
Lamellar Vorpal's Edge
0
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Posted - 2011.12.09 14:40:00 -
[82] - Quote
Myself and several members of my alliance have experienced all of these issues. However we have noticed them since Incarna, so they are not new to Crucible. In fact if you read the EvE blogs, you can see that these issues have been around since Incarna with no real response from the Devs. (All have been petitioned and reported only to receive the standard canned response. "Our logs show no errors") Each time I was in a fleet and my fleet verified that they were seeing the same thing I was seeing in real time. ie my ship wasn't popped early, or before my client indicated it, etc.
While not scrammed, ship is already aligned at full speed. Select warp, all HUD indications are that ship should be in warp, unable to enter any commands receiving the response (You cannot do that while in warp) yet ship sits on grid still aligned not responding to commands. This has also happened while webbed (but not pointed) which should have resulted in an insta warp, instead resulting in ship sitting on grid long enough to watch my armor and hull slowly chipped away.
Taking fire while sitting on a gate. Attempt to jump through gate while still having plenty of shields left in an armor tanked ship. Nothing happens. Click jump again get the message that session change is already in progress. Try another command, same message. Sit there and watch as armor and hull is slowly stripped away again. Start trying to spam warp, get the message that session change is already in progress. Suddenly appear in pod, on the other side of the gate! Which shouldn't have been possible given the 30 second session change timer following ship loss. Which indicates that my ship should have jumped through the first time I clicked jump.
Since Crucible, lots of lag during session changes, etc. |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
95
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Posted - 2011.12.09 15:08:00 -
[83] - Quote
GM Homonoia wrote: I think that GM message has been misinterpreted or taken out of context. After your ship is destroyed you go into a session change, namely moving from your ship to your pod. This means that you cannot jump, dock, or go through any other session change for 30 seconds (which is now 20 seconds). It is certainly not an exploit to spam the warp button.
Time dilation should not affect it.
And your pod following the command you gave your ship is most likely caused by the fact that often when you still see your ship on your screen, on the server you re already in your pod. Thus the server thinks you gave that command to your pod and not your ship, which was already removed server side.
Thank you for your post!
LetGÇÖs assume what you say explains this. Ok so basically people lose their pods when they see that they are still in a ship but their opponent, do to having a better internet connection or better computer, see they are in a pod. Would you agree that as long as you are spamming warp or autopilot trick there is nothing more you can do as a player? BTW which is better: autopilot or spam warp?
Assuming you can't do anything more than spam warp or use the autopilot trick then it seems the whole business of whether you get a pod kill or not has nothing to do with ability in the game but is really just a matter of what sort of internet or computer you have.
I think that is the inescapable conclusion. But this sort of poisons the game for solo and small gang players in empire. Because it means if you have a good computer or internet connection you can have ships with 50% more armor,(slaves) or 40% more speed(snakes) or 40% more shield boost(crystals) than others. Sure if you are used to flying in fleets where its 50 vs 20 this won't make much difference. But for those of us who like solo and small scale pvp this is really significant. That is why I posted this originally:
Cearain wrote:When MMOs first came out I didn't bother with them because it was understood that being good at them had more to do with your computer and internet connection than any actual game skill.
EVE suffers from this in the extreme when it comes to podkilling mechanics.
But now let me suggest that perhaps what you explain is not the only problem and the whole thing is may be riddled with problems. The first two scenarios are why I suggested that it seems the pod is responding to a command you actually gave your ship. The third point is just an explanation that the problems go deeper than you describe.
1) After I lose my ship the warp out button is GÇ£unpressable.GÇ¥ I realize that due to the session timer change I shouldn't be able to dock or jump through a gate but I should be able to warp. Yet right after my ship explodes the warp out button does not "press." ItGÇÖs frozen for a couple seconds. This freeze up seems to happen after my ship is lost. So I conclude that perhaps the pod is reacting to a command given while I am in my ship.
2) One time I was fighting a destroyer in a range fit frigate. I started to dip into armor so I warped away. I did a few warps to let my aggession go and then I docked. Well the destroyer was at the station. The ship said it was docking but it didn't dock. I spammed dock. The destroyer locked me. Started firing. My armor went then I went into hull. So I picked a distant celestial and started to spam the warp out button to at least save my pod. Well I ended up in my pod in station. But in my pod with my implants! Now I was glad I had my pod but this should not have happened. This was before incarna so there should have been a 30 second session timer before i could dock. The only explanation I can come to is my pod instantly acknowledged the command I gave my ship.
3) Your explanation doesn't explain what can be very extensive client side lag. One time I was spaming warp for quite a while when I while in structure. I was fighting a merlin without a sensor booster. Now there is no way I was already in my pod when I started spamming warp and the logs verified that. But nevertheless I was podded. Now according to eft a merlin with all level 5 skills should take 3.8 seconds to target a pod. There is no way my spamming the warp button would have left a 3.8 second gap. Some of the warp commands must not have been coming through at all.
In sum even if your explanation is correct the pod mechanics in eve poison the game for solo and small scale pvp in empire. But itGÇÖs quite likely that the mechanics are even more problematic than your explanation suggests.
Again I think eve is awesome. The actual ship fights are not determined by these things. But this podding mechanic often causes me to think why should I play this game when itGÇÖs more of a test of internet connection than any game ability. Some people can fly with pirate implants and almost never get podded, others canGÇÖt take advantage of those. DonGÇÖt you think ccp should look at making this game mechanic reliable? I mean I donGÇÖt care if you always lose a pod or if you can always warp out. But eve shouldnGÇÖt be just a test of your computer. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Duvida
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.12.09 18:48:00 -
[84] - Quote
So, pod and warp problems should be ruled by game mechanics and not by coding problems. I can agree with that.
As for the person telling the nerds to 'shut up'... does that include all the nerds that developed EVE Online or even all the nerds that developed computers and computer gaming in the first place? |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
62
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Posted - 2011.12.09 18:51:00 -
[85] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote:At the risk of getting flamed.
We already have something like 10 seconds of invulnerability for ships coming out of warp, presumably to let them load grid. Would it be too gamebreaking to extend that to pods as the ship dies?
Yes, it would. God, you're a scrub.
If you panic, you die. If you rage, you die. If you're in a bubble, you die.
If you calmly hit/spam the warp button and there's no bubble trouble, you live.
That's how it has worked. That's how it should work. Or high-priced implants will only be used by carebears and the game will lose even more of its luster.
OP lost a couple of billion because CCP yet again broke their game with an expansion. (None of the ships on his killmail could have locked him in less than a few seconds.) Fix the game, CCP! |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
346
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Posted - 2011.12.09 19:09:00 -
[86] - Quote
GM Homonoia wrote: And your pod following the command you gave your ship is most likely caused by the fact that often when you still see your ship on your screen, on the server you re already in your pod. Thus the server thinks you gave that command to your pod and not your ship, which was already removed server side.
this was a mistake and probably even the cause for the whole problem.
if you want to escape with your ship you will want to escape in your pod too... All that spamming is ONLY to make sure that the pod knows to warp out after the session changes. Thats a workaround for the technical issue of the session change.
if you now apply button spamming filters on the servers you make it only worse since you didn't understood the root cause.
in short: cause for spaming the dscan button != cause for spamming the warp button while your ship explodes a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
234
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Posted - 2011.12.09 19:15:00 -
[87] - Quote
AkJon Ferguson wrote:If you panic, you die. If you rage, you die. If you're in a bubble, you die.
If you calmly hit/spam the warp button and there's no bubble trouble, you live.
That's how it has worked. That's how it should work. Or high-priced implants will only be used by carebears and the game will lose even more of its luster. You could argue relying on buggy mechanics as a balance feature is no way to design a game.
Of course, if you argued that, you might as well quit EVE, so... What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
346
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Posted - 2011.12.09 19:20:00 -
[88] - Quote
the next thing to fix is client side performance when your ship is exploding. You still get unresponsive UI and even a progress bar (!) which is actually not acceptable for a pvp game if you think about that.
if CCP really can't improve the issue think about implementing automatic warpout.
pod warps automatically 1000km in a random direction, the only way to prevent it is to have a bubble.
reasoning: - if warpout jamming, client freezes etc WOULD be fixed in future, there would be no podkills in lowsec anymore anyway - podkills in low ONLY happen because of technical issues - or pilot mistakes forgetting about session timers, for example pilot wants to dock or jump
a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
234
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Posted - 2011.12.09 19:25:00 -
[89] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:reasoning: - if warpout jamming, client freezes etc WOULD be fixed in future, there would be no podkills in lowsec anymore anyway - podkills in low ONLY happen because of technical issues - or pilot mistakes forgetting about session timers, for example pilot wants to dock or jump (again: technical issues) Not really, they mostly happen because of players getting excited and fumbling with the right click menus, misclicking, and so on. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
346
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 19:29:00 -
[90] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote:Bienator II wrote:reasoning: - if warpout jamming, client freezes etc WOULD be fixed in future, there would be no podkills in lowsec anymore anyway - podkills in low ONLY happen because of technical issues - or pilot mistakes forgetting about session timers, for example pilot wants to dock or jump (again: technical issues) Not really, they mostly happen because of players getting excited and fumbling with the right click menus, misclicking, and so on. again: they happen because the client does not react.
player counter with button spamming ccp counters with with filters (or whatever) and makes it only worse without fixing the root cause a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
346
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 19:37:00 -
[91] - Quote
random guy on twitter 5s ago:
"killed and podded in one second, while STILL in warp, by a smartbomb... i am VERY mad bro. #tweetfleet" https://twitter.com/#!/RaidEn_EVE/status/145224568091586560
he does not know that: - client did not knew that user was dead on the server - user warped -> happy - died in warp -> very unhappy
with fixed meachnics the would die on the field in the smartbomb and all would be good and interpreted as fair game a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
234
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 19:44:00 -
[92] - Quote
Smartbombs do kill stuff coming in and out of warp. What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644 |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
346
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 19:53:00 -
[93] - Quote
Jack Dant wrote:Smartbombs do kill stuff coming in and out of warp. but not in warp a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Hainnz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 21:21:00 -
[94] - Quote
Eh, big deal if I lose my pod. |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
96
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 22:07:00 -
[95] - Quote
Hainnz wrote:Eh, big deal if I lose my pod.
In most blobs the actual benefits of the implants don't really matter. Since many eve pvpers just blob others they don't need to bother with them. But for those of us who do small scale or solo pvp the benefits from pirate implants can be very substantial.
Losing them do to unreliable game mechanics can really start to hurt. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Ivan Joukov
Astromechanica Maxima Astromechanica Federatis
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 22:37:00 -
[96] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:the next thing to fix is client side performance when your ship is exploding. You still get unresponsive UI and even a progress bar (!) which is actually not acceptable for a pvp game if you think about that.
if CCP really can't improve the issue think about implementing automatic warpout.
pod warps automatically 1000km in a random direction, the only way to prevent it is to have a bubble.
reasoning: - if warpout jamming, client freezes etc WOULD be fixed in future, there would be no podkills in lowsec anymore anyway - podkills in low ONLY happen because of technical issues - or pilot mistakes forgetting about session timers, for example pilot wants to dock or jump (again: technical issues)
+1 one that, I had the same problem and there's clearly a post-patch problem and client-side odds with podding.
-áDavai!
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
348
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 22:41:00 -
[97] - Quote
Hainnz wrote:Eh, big deal if I lose my pod. don't warp if you don'T want to. you decide. right now its just influenced by server load or client performance. a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
96
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 23:22:00 -
[98] - Quote
AkJon Ferguson wrote: If you calmly hit/spam the warp button and there's no bubble trouble, you live.!
It depends on client and internet lag. You don't always live. Even before incarna it was glitchy. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Jenshae Chiroptera
238
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 00:10:00 -
[99] - Quote
On a related note. I went from high sec into the worm hole, saw a ganker camping, waited a bit with default cloak then decided best thing to do would be to jump back out.
One session change failure later, my ship is gone but I fortunately managed to warp my pod away. Ideas and stuff EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down. |
Cearain
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
96
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 11:39:00 -
[100] - Quote
Eisen Obliema wrote:Myself and several members of my alliance have experienced all of these issues. However we have noticed them since Incarna, so they are not new to Crucible. In fact if you read the EvE blogs, you can see that these issues have been around since Incarna with no real response from the Devs. ....
I heard that when they went with the carbon ui it caused more client side lag.
Again I don't really care if ccp wants to make it so we always get podded or never get podded but the game mechanics should be reliably based on how you play the game not your computer. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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DangerosoDavo
EVE Is Dead
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 21:26:00 -
[101] - Quote
Good news, pod reimbursed, there was an issue on their end that the gm found and success...
maybe there is hope for a bug fix in future.... |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
99
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 21:57:00 -
[102] - Quote
DangerosoDavo wrote:Good news, pod reimbursed, there was an issue on their end that the gm found and success...
maybe there is hope for a bug fix in future.... The logs showed something!!!!
Glad to hear it though. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
96
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 22:09:00 -
[103] - Quote
DangerosoDavo wrote:Good news, pod reimbursed, there was an issue on their end that the gm found and success...
maybe there is hope for a bug fix in future....
I will say the gms are often fair when they do find something.
The problem is really that their hands are often tied because the logs don't show client lag or internet lag. The logs just show you hitting the warp button once every 3 seconds instead of 5xs per second.
Internet gaming is not yet ready to sort out who gave these sub second commands first. I wish ccp would acknowledge that and stop making important consequences in their game hinge on it. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Opertone
Signal 7 The Jagged Alliance
53
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 22:18:00 -
[104] - Quote
GM Homonoia wrote:DISCLAIMER: I am not a programmer or designer. My word is not law on this matter.
However: Spamming a button is never a feature and is never guaranteed to work. Spamming the warp button has never been a 100% guarantee escape and it was definitely not designed to be so. In fact, spamming any button can cause client side lag. It may help you get the perfect timing right, it is just as likely to drown the client or your connection and make things worse.
It is really explained by the word "spamming", which is never a good thing. Btw, this is true for almost all software. Even a simple text program will fall behind or filter out some commands when you mash your buttons fast enough, let alone a complex program like EVE.
My only advise is: do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. If your ship gets caught, your pod is in dire straights as well. It may get out, but it may go squish all the same if your attackers are paying attention.
Dear GM, introduce POD catapult. Leave ship behind - new incentive to eject early. |
Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 22:47:00 -
[105] - Quote
I'm glad you got your ISK back but giving ISK to people who don't deserve it is no better than letting people get podded who don't deserve it. People who choke need to die horribly. People who don't choke need to escape (absent a bubble.) It shouldn't come down to lawyering and petitioning. |
DangerosoDavo
EVE Is Dead
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 23:27:00 -
[106] - Quote
Jonathan Ferguson wrote:I'm glad you got your ISK back but giving ISK to people who don't deserve it is no better than letting people get podded who don't deserve it. People who choke need to die horribly. People who don't choke need to escape (absent a bubble.) It shouldn't come down to lawyering and petitioning.
+1
however petitioning wont get you your isk back.. unless there is actually a problem. People should die if they dont know how to save there pod in low/null without bubble. however if someone has a problem that is legit then petitions and bug reports should be sent. your perfect world scenario doesnt always exist.. especially in eve. |
iCaldari
QWERTY ASDFG
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 23:32:00 -
[107] - Quote
This has been talked about already, and its an issue.
ccp fix this **** already .. i lost my tengu too like that, 20 seconds with the warping bar full and **** wouldnt move or start warping or letting me to anything else just tanking untill I died. |
Xolve
Epidemic.
145
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 23:38:00 -
[108] - Quote
iCaldari wrote:This has been talked about already, and its an issue.
ccp fix this **** already .. i lost my tengu too like that, 20 seconds with the warping bar full and **** wouldnt move or start warping or letting me to anything else just tanking untill I died.
That was just punishment because you are bad, and should feel bad. Lady Spank for C&P Moderator.
|
Nullbeard Rager
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 23:52:00 -
[109] - Quote
GM Homonoia wrote:gfldex wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:DISCLAIMER: I am not a programmer or designer. My word is not law on this matter. That might be the reason why you wrote the following bullshit. GM Homonoia wrote:Spamming the warp button has never been a 100% guarantee escape and it was definitely not designed to be so. It used to work so well that anybody in his right mind was doing it all the time. That has changed. Why was it changed? Was it a side effect or a change of policy. If it is the former it's a bug. If it's the latter it needs to be in the patch notes. GM Homonoia wrote:Even a simple text program will fall behind or filter out some commands when you mash your buttons fast enough, let alone a complex program like EVE. I don't know what kind of computers you are using but I can't think of any text program that would fail to process the input buffer so hard that a human being could outperform it. I'm terribly sorry but you reasoning can only be seen as a fairly bad compilation of lame excuses. Edit: It would be nice to be allowed to post on this forum without having to take any post into the clipboard to prevent it from being eaten by a bug. I may not be a programmer, but I have a very solid background in both software development and EVE; I would not comment on these things if I was completely clueless. I am aware that spamming the warp button greatly increased your chances of getting out. When I was simply a player and not a GM we told our alliance grunts to do exactly that. However, it was never a full proof thing. I lost quite a few pods despite that tactic. We also did not change that 'mechanic', not consciously. Some code may have been introduced that affects that particular behavior as a side effect, but considering that behavior is partly there because the way client/server communication works across the internet, that possible behavioral change is more likely a technical thing and not a design change. As I said earlier, this is not a game mechanic, but the way the technology behaves. If the tech is changes, behavior might change. However, even though it is not an official design, if the behavior changed in a way that is undesirable me and my colleagues will keep an eye on things. And any solid feedback is welcome.
Another angry, ignorant player schooled in how to computerz... |
Nullbeard Rager
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.15 23:54:00 -
[110] - Quote
GM Homonoia wrote:Shad0wsFury wrote: When CCP goes and fiddles with things, even minor things, they often do not explain the change they made, or even acknowledge that they made a change at all. THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST FRUSTRATING ASPECTS OF BEING A PLAYER. I'm cool with you changing whatever you want whenever you want, AS LONG AS YOU TELL ME WHAT YOU CHANGED. Such "ninja-nerfs" as they're called by players are getting very tiresome and increasingly frustrating. Be upfront with what you change, regardless of whether you deem it a bug or exploit or WHATEVER, and a lot of players will be a lot less agitated when you change little things like this. I realize a lot of work goes into big releases like Crucible, but seriously if you're not keeping records of EVERYTHING you change and how much work goes into any given item, then you really should be, and there should never be a reason to hide this information from the players. No, you shouldn't give them a list of known exploits, but when an exploit is fixed, it should never, ever, be a secret.
As I said before, if the 'warp pod after ship destruction' behavior changed, then it was a side effect, not an intentional change. We try to list every possible change we make to our patch notes. Nothing is left out intentionally with the exception of certain exploits. Shad0wsFury wrote: Also, your GMs clearly need more experience playing EVE, and that experience should be well-rounded, not just shooting players 23/7 or rocks 23/7 or running manufacturing jobs or any other single thing 23/7. And if you can't manage that, maybe you should assign specific GMs with specific experience to specific areas of interest like PvP, mining, et-cetera.
We have specific GMs with specific specialties. We also have all-round GMs. Of course, some GMs are more experienced than others, bot those dealing with game play issues generally have quite a bit of EVE experience. Personally I have been playing since January 2006. I have flown almost every ship type, I have been in alliance leadership (space holding/conquering), I have been an industrialist and a PvPer, lived in NPC 0.0 and empire. The only things I have never really done is wormhole occupancy, T3 ships, suicide ganking and extensive mission running (mining ftw!)
And his best friend...
|
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
96
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 02:00:00 -
[111] - Quote
DangerosoDavo wrote:Jonathan Ferguson wrote:I'm glad you got your ISK back but giving ISK to people who don't deserve it is no better than letting people get podded who don't deserve it. People who choke need to die horribly. People who don't choke need to escape (absent a bubble.) It shouldn't come down to lawyering and petitioning. +1 however petitioning wont get you your isk back.. unless there is actually a problem. People should die if they dont know how to save there pod in low/null without bubble. however if someone has a problem that is legit then petitions and bug reports should be sent. your perfect world scenario doesnt always exist.. especially in eve.
Petitions have nothing to do with lawyering. If the logs show an error you get reimbursed. If not you don't. What Ferguson seems to fail to realize is that even people who don't "choke" often still get podded due to the internet not being instantaneous in its communications.
It may be that due to his internet provider or his location he has always gotten his pod out absent a bubble or smarty but for others that is not the case. In eve how good your internet connection is will have a large impact on how competive you will be. People can look at stats or whatever you want but a *very* significant aspect of the game has nothing to do with choking or not choking. It has to do with your internet provider.
That is why Jack dents proposal here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=491606#post491606
That pods be given time to warp out is not a scrub suggestion. Its a suggestion from someone who understands that the internet is not "instantaneous" so making mechanics based on the assumption that they are, is stupid. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cipher Jones
158
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 03:30:00 -
[112] - Quote
Klandi wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:
That's close, but not entirely true. .
Sorry to disagree but ping does not and cannot represent speed in any form. Please reference any documentation on ping and its elements and forget all interpretation. Speed is constant on any type of network at 186,282 miles per second. Fact. What you are referring to is the amount of information that can be carried AT THAT SPEED which is always variable and for ease of use is referred to as speed - but wrongly so. And as a registered nerd, Zagdul - I will not shut up
A person can simply reference "speed" as the time it takes for information to accumulate. Speed can refer to rate of progress. Totally legit use of the word.
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Ev0ke
34
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 04:21:00 -
[113] - Quote
Klandi wrote:Dust Fourtwenty wrote:bandwidth is not speed ping is speed Just to be PERFECTLY correct: Speed of broadband is constant (speed of light) so ping and bandwidth incorrectly reference "speed" but it is the easiest to understand. Ping attempts to send a packet of information to gather statistics about its journey. How long it took to get there and return that information (if allowed) is returned and it does not reference speed.
Electric signals in copper wire propagate at roughly 2/3c, depending on how crappy your cabling is.
Optic signals in fibre cable propagate at speed s with s < c since while the carrier wave itself may travel at c, it does not travel down the fibre in a straight line, but gets constantly refracted at the outer edges of the fibre ("bounces between them"). So the distance inside the fibre is actually longer than the fibre itself resulting in signal propagation speeds below the speed of the carrier wave.
You are correct that "ping" does not measure speed but round-trip time. But, in the absence of anycast setups, usually time to a relatively fixed destination. If now the routing path stays the same you have time and a rough idea of the distance to the destination (if you actually know the destination's location; also distance here is not length of the traveled path), thus speed in a distance per unit of time sense. An information transmission speed though, not physical signal propagation speed.
In practice this is largely irrelevant though, since icmp echo is, due to small packet sizes and the protocol design, less affected by differences in the deployed switching technologies along its path, has no retransmission delays, congestion control algorithms, uneven endpoint support of things like selective acks, various fragment reassemblies along the path or window scaling problems on the endpoints.
There are myriads of possibilities why your echo RTT can be good, but the time it takes your application to successfully transmit a specific amount of information down what you perceive to be the same path via TCP very bad.
Game clients are much like interactive shells tough and not bulk transfers, so a bad baseline RTT which can be established via "pings" can dramatically increase the subjective unresponsiveness of the application. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
298
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 15:07:00 -
[114] - Quote
Given how much implants can give large advantage in this game, I have asked ccp diagoras to give some statistics on this here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=851310#post851310 Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Miss Whippy
Bloody Limeys
89
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 15:14:00 -
[115] - Quote
I never used to get podded, I could always escape. Since crucible I've been getting podded loads. On every occasion the UI was telling me I was actually in Warp.
I did petition all this, but I was told the records couldn't prove anything either way. I just assumed I was sucking more, but now this thread makes me think again. Highjacking every thread possible in the campaign to END THE CLICK FEST and RUBBISH NAVIGATION in EvE. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
364
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 15:34:00 -
[116] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:DangerosoDavo wrote:Bumblefck wrote:Only 30mb fibre optic? You might as well have dial up lol england is behind the times. 30mb is considered fast. the fastest possible is 100mb in england. (residential) still its a download speed of 3.7MB/s ish. Ignore him, he just makes badposts to wind people up.
A really bad DOUCHE is more like it............. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
490
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 15:37:00 -
[117] - Quote
^ he is more like a bumbledouche then anything I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
364
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 15:40:00 -
[118] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote: The logs showed something!!!!
For once ! OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
364
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 15:43:00 -
[119] - Quote
Jonathan Ferguson wrote:I'm glad you got your ISK back but giving ISK to people who don't deserve it is no better than letting people get podded who don't deserve it. People who choke need to die horribly. People who don't choke need to escape (absent a bubble.) It shouldn't come down to lawyering and petitioning.
Wow. You really like your name bunches. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2923
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 16:11:00 -
[120] - Quote
whatever whateverson wrote:Bumblefck wrote:Lady Spank wrote:DangerosoDavo wrote:Bumblefck wrote:Only 30mb fibre optic? You might as well have dial up lol england is behind the times. 30mb is considered fast. the fastest possible is 100mb in england. (residential) still its a download speed of 3.7MB/s ish. Ignore him, he just makes badposts to wind people up. Actually, this is a fairly serious post. I'm from the UK too, but I currently live in Japan. I also have a fibre optic connection, but it is a 100MB line, for about the equivalent of -ú25/month. I was being a little facetious in my post but that was more to illustrate the paucity of BT's infrastructure Anyway, sucks to lose your pod dude Yeah and my line is between 500-1000mbs
I know I'm a little late to the reply, but this snarky attitude really 'grinds my gears'. Why is it inconceivable that other countries' infrastructures are far in advance of your (I assume) North American or European standards? Fibre optic connections are very common here now, and cheap too (compared to the UK and US)
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
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Ajita al Tchar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
108
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 16:22:00 -
[121] - Quote
Soooooo, much speculation and guessing as far as whether anything changed, whether something changed that could have affected the warp mechanics, etc.
Dev response?... No? It would actually help, you know. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2923
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 16:25:00 -
[122] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: A really bad DOUCHE is more like it.............
Nice personal attack there, buddy-stalker
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Johan Civire
Dirty Curse inc.
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 17:24:00 -
[123] - Quote
DangerosoDavo wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:Arkady Sadik wrote:GM Homonoia wrote:However: Spamming a button is never a feature and is never guaranteed to work. Spamming the warp button has never been a 100% guarantee escape and it was definitely not designed to be so. In fact, spamming any button can cause client side lag. It may help you get the perfect timing right, it is just as likely to drown the client or your connection and make things worse. Well, one thing that is definitely true since Crucible is that the lag caused by "spamming" (I hit the warp button twice a second tops for pod escape, worked very well in the past) is that the client lags a lot more on quite a few situations. This is difficult to bug report, as it's not a single bug you can easily reproduce, but it feels a lot more laggy. And that would indicate a software problem that should be fixed, regardless of whether the "pod escape" is an intended feature or not. That, unfortunately, is something I cannot really go into as I simply lack the skills (not a programmer or QA person) to delve into this. I realize that bug reporting this isn't easy, but it is still the best way to get programmers to notice. What I can promise you is that I will keep an eye out for this (both as a game master and as a player) and will pass anything I find up the chain. okay, after pondering for a few moments on your view i have come to the following conclusion. Lag due to spamming may infact be possible but looking at the logs it was between 5 and 9 seconds after lossing the ship and being in a pod and being unable to warp the whole time, and again looking at the logs it states the reason as being already in warp. im sure a pod can align and warp in less than 5 seconds even with lag. This indicated a programming/software issue to me. state change problems? another thing, i had no clientside lag at the time of the incident, you only have my word for this though as i wasnt recording the fight due to 2 scorps decloaking and me thinking it was pointless :D on a side note: i had had the issue with session change simply not expireing before since cruicible, ive been sat on a gate for 3 minutes not being able to jump because my session change didn't expire, maybe another state change problem in the client? only relogging fixed the problem.
Hey dude now you mis 1 point here let me refresh your memmory he say : DISCLAIMER: I am not a programmer or designer. My word is not law on this matter.
|
Doc Severide
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
41
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 17:28:00 -
[124] - Quote
Klandi wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:
That's close, but not entirely true. .
Sorry to disagree but ping does not and cannot represent speed in any form. Please reference any documentation on ping and its elements and forget all interpretation. Speed is constant on any type of network at 186,282 miles per second. Fact. What you are referring to is the amount of information that can be carried AT THAT SPEED which is always variable and for ease of use is referred to as speed - but wrongly so.
That's ALMOST correct.
Disclaimer: Like wow d00d...
With the formula 186,282 x hypotinus of the constant speed of the bits of data + the unknown aspect of the paradigm of the wave shift = the number of packets interjected into a sine wave at the constant air pressure at sea level... |
Kiandoshia
Amarrian Retribution
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 18:44:00 -
[125] - Quote
I lost a pod once because the 'Changing Ship' message got stuck on my screen and I couldn't do anything until I died xD |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1419
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 18:52:00 -
[126] - Quote
*lol* Hilarious.
I myself die to podding only because of docking lag.
You're doing it wrong. :)
Also ... +1 Klandi :D Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
298
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 20:55:00 -
[127] - Quote
Ajita al Tchar wrote:Soooooo, much speculation and guessing as far as whether anything changed, whether something changed that could have affected the warp mechanics, etc.
Dev response?... No? It would actually help, you know.
Yes I agree. The advantages that implants give in this game are high enough that ccp should explain how these mechanics work.
If they are just going to claim nothing has changed in this regard then I would like to see the numbers of pod kills/ship kills in low sec that support that claim. I know for sure that something changed for me and everyone I have talked to agrees. Was this due to my and everyone I talked to having and issue with their internet provider or local computer? Or did something happen to the client?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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kopacz swiata
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.03.08 21:44:00 -
[128] - Quote
Doc Severide wrote:Klandi wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:
That's close, but not entirely true. .
Sorry to disagree but ping does not and cannot represent speed in any form. Please reference any documentation on ping and its elements and forget all interpretation. Speed is constant on any type of network at 186,282 miles per second. Fact. What you are referring to is the amount of information that can be carried AT THAT SPEED which is always variable and for ease of use is referred to as speed - but wrongly so. That's ALMOST correct.
Disclaimer: Like wow d00d...
With the formula 186,282 x hypotinus of the constant speed of the bits of data + the unknown aspect of the paradigm of the wave shift = the number of packets interjected into a sine wave at the constant air pressure at sea level...
I think I pooped myself a little bit reading this.... |
Avid Bumhumper
Furian Necromongers
28
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 21:52:00 -
[129] - Quote
Klandi wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:
That's close, but not entirely true. .
Sorry to disagree but ping does not and cannot represent speed in any form. Please reference any documentation on ping and its elements and forget all interpretation. Speed is constant on any type of network at 186,282 miles per second. Fact. What you are referring to is the amount of information that can be carried AT THAT SPEED which is always variable and for ease of use is referred to as speed - but wrongly so. And as a registered nerd, Zagdul - I will not shut up
You've been de-registered. Your talking bandwidth, not ping...
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Sloppy Podfarts
Hedion University Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2012.03.09 01:10:00 -
[130] - Quote
kopacz swiata wrote:I think I pooped myself a little bit reading this....
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Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
366
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 13:24:00 -
[131] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote: I know I'm a little late to the reply, but this snarky attitude really 'grinds my gears'.
I won't quit laughing at THIS for WEEKS !!! OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
299
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 18:16:00 -
[132] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:*lol* Hilarious.
I myself die to podding only because of docking lag.
You're doing it wrong. :)
Also ... +1 Klandi :D
How do you do it?
It used to be that if you aligned and then spammed the warp out button before your ship blew up you would get out. That is no longer the case though. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
754
|
Posted - 2012.03.09 18:37:00 -
[133] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Lady Spank wrote:DangerosoDavo wrote:Bumblefck wrote:Only 30mb fibre optic? You might as well have dial up lol england is behind the times. 30mb is considered fast. the fastest possible is 100mb in england. (residential) still its a download speed of 3.7MB/s ish. Ignore him, he just makes badposts to wind people up. Actually, this is a fairly serious post. I'm from the UK too, but I currently live in Japan. I also have a fibre optic connection, but it is a 100MB line, for about the equivalent of -ú25/month. I was being a little facetious in my post but that was more to illustrate the paucity of BT's infrastructure Anyway, sucks to lose your pod dude
84,000 AUR ($420) spent on NeX store for Troll and Profit. |
Zleon Leigh
90
|
Posted - 2012.03.10 07:54:00 -
[134] - Quote
Klandi wrote:Sentient Blade wrote:
That's close, but not entirely true. .
Sorry to disagree but ping does not and cannot represent speed in any form. Please reference any documentation on ping and its elements and forget all interpretation. Speed is constant on any type of network at 186,282 miles per second. Fact. What you are referring to is the amount of information that can be carried AT THAT SPEED which is always variable and for ease of use is referred to as speed - but wrongly so. And as a registered nerd, Zagdul - I will not shut up
Sentient is right.
A car may be able to reach a speed of 200 mph on the autobahn, but if the roadway is congested and traffic controlled it may only be able to average speed of 20 mph. Since a packet is the minimal, easiest to transport element in the system, it's average transport time (velocity of information) is the very practical and useful representative speed of the system. While the control and data signals may propagate at "c", the system is stepped by digital clocks operating at a time base that is much, much slower than that. Your theoretical infrastructure speed of "c" is meaningless. Also - even the "c" number is wrong - there are many different materials in the system that propagate electrons slower than "c".
Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital.
CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day |
Zleon Leigh
90
|
Posted - 2012.03.10 07:57:00 -
[135] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:Nice to know it's our fault the client freezes and gets people killed.
In my experience 8/10 pod kills have been caused by client freeze/collapse. Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital.
CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day |
Zleon Leigh
90
|
Posted - 2012.03.10 07:59:00 -
[136] - Quote
GM Homonoia wrote:DISCLAIMER: I am not a programmer or designer. My word is not law on this matter.
However: Spamming a button is never a feature and is never guaranteed to work. Spamming the warp button has never been a 100% guarantee escape and it was definitely not designed to be so. In fact, spamming any button can cause client side lag. It may help you get the perfect timing right, it is just as likely to drown the client or your connection and make things worse.
It is really explained by the word "spamming", which is never a good thing. Btw, this is true for almost all software. Even a simple text program will fall behind or filter out some commands when you mash your buttons fast enough, let alone a complex program like EVE.
My only advise is: do not fly what you cannot afford to lose. If your ship gets caught, your pod is in dire straights as well. It may get out, but it may go squish all the same if your attackers are paying attention.
In short - CCP never has bad programming. If CCP has bad programming it is working as intended.
Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital.
CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day |
Zleon Leigh
90
|
Posted - 2012.03.10 08:01:00 -
[137] - Quote
Arkady Sadik wrote: Well, one thing that is definitely true since Crucible is that the client lags a lot more on quite a few situations. This is difficult to bug report, as it's not a single bug you can easily reproduce, but it feels a lot more laggy. And that would indicate a software problem that should be fixed, regardless of whether the "pod escape" is an intended feature or not.
Totally agree - definitely laggy at gates now. I'm also seeing 6/10 fail to jumps or dock because "you are cloaked". Funny how those advanced spaceship computers have problems flipping things on and off in time for a session change.
Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital.
CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day |
Zleon Leigh
90
|
Posted - 2012.03.10 08:07:00 -
[138] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:You shouldn't try to warp away when shot, you should just... pop. Or just press the warp button once. Wait, nothing happens? There's the whole reason ppl spam that button. Kick the lawnmower if it doesn't start. It doesn't help, but what else can you do? Perhaps CCP can feed the hamsters so that they respond to command the first time.
Since the cursor partially covers the icon, making it hard to see if it changed state, maybe a sound feedback on the "click" would be reassuring that the client actually registered the action on the server side.
Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital.
CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
300
|
Posted - 2012.03.11 22:55:00 -
[139] - Quote
Zleon Leigh wrote:Lady Spank wrote:Nice to know it's our fault the client freezes and gets people killed. In my experience 8/10 pod kills have been caused by client freeze/collapse.
There certainly seems to be some sort of issue since incarna. I think the client must be freezing or something. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Bubanni
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
131
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Posted - 2012.03.12 00:46:00 -
[140] - Quote
Kiandoshia wrote:I lost a pod once because the 'Changing Ship' message got stuck on my screen and I couldn't do anything until I died xD
Confirming this is actually the problem... The session change between your ship blowing up, and you being in a pod... able to warp takes long enough (some of the time) for fast locking ships to point you |
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
300
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Posted - 2012.03.12 13:37:00 -
[141] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:Kiandoshia wrote:I lost a pod once because the 'Changing Ship' message got stuck on my screen and I couldn't do anything until I died xD Confirming this is actually the problem... The session change between your ship blowing up, and you being in a pod... able to warp takes long enough (some of the time) for fast locking ships to point you
So you are thinking that you can't warp out during the session change?
I think its clear that something changed in how this works because of the substantial increase in pod kills. But with no devs willing to talk about it I am not sure what exactly happened.
I'm not expecting ccp to admit the game is bugged or anything, but can we at least get some assurance that someone at ccp is looking into this? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Ambo
I've Got Nothing
29
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Posted - 2012.03.12 13:53:00 -
[142] - Quote
Yup, there is certainly some sort of issue there. It is only intermittent but then that's almost worse. The inconsistency is really annoying and has pretty much stopped me using decent pods in pvp because i'm just not sure how it's supposed to be behaving. It's kind of like having a random 1 % chance of your guns just not working. |
Terminal Insanity
Convex Enterprises Unprovoked Aggression
259
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 13:57:00 -
[143] - Quote
Upgrade your pipes. It makes other internet servers and routers immediately faster and increases their bandwidth as well.
But really - The bug is when your ship is destroyed and you're transfered into your pod. A lot of the time theres caching issues and i find now and then my harddrive thrashes for 5-10 seconds when my ship explodes.
The best way to fix it is to leave your ship in station and have it load the Pod mode/graphics etc right before you enter battle. If you've been flying around for hours, chances are the pod model/graphics have been dropped from memory |
Wodensun
ZeroSec
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 16:41:00 -
[144] - Quote
RFC 2925 ( Request For Comment )
Ping and traceroute are two very useful functions for managing networks. Ping is typically used to determine if a path exists between two hosts while traceroute shows an actual path. Ping is usually implemented using the Internet Control Message Protocol (ICMP) "ECHO" facility. It is also possible to implement a ping capability using alternate methods, some of which are:
o Using the UDP echo port (7), if supported.
This is defined by RFC 862 [2].
o Timing an SNMP query.
o Timing a TCP connect attempt.
In general, almost any request/response flow can be used to generate a round-trip time. Often many of the non-ICMP ECHO facility methods stand a better chance of yielding a good response (not timing out for example) since some routers don't honor Echo Requests (timeout situation) or they are handled at lower priority, hence possibly giving false indications of round trip times.
It must be noted that almost any of the various methods used for generating a round-trip time can be considered a form of system attack when used excessively. Sending a system requests too often can negatively effect its performance. Attempting to connect to what is supposed to be an unused port can be very unpredictable. There are tools that attempt to connect to a range of TCP ports to test that any receiving server can handle erroneous connection attempts. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
304
|
Posted - 2012.03.12 19:22:00 -
[145] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:Upgrade your pipes. It makes other internet servers and routers immediately faster and increases their bandwidth as well.
But really - The bug is when your ship is destroyed and you're transfered into your pod. A lot of the time theres caching issues and i find now and then my harddrive thrashes for 5-10 seconds when my ship explodes.
The best way to fix it is to leave your ship in station and have it load the Pod mode/graphics etc right before you enter battle. If you've been flying around for hours, chances are the pod model/graphics have been dropped from memory
What do you mean upgrade your pipes? I don't think this is a lag issue. I very rarely have lag of more than .1 second. I have a ssd hard drive but I do have an older graphics card but I play on the low settings and it used to work fine until incarna.
So what changed?
Do you think the pod graphics are better and therefore taking longer to load?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
304
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 21:31:00 -
[146] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:*lol* Hilarious.
I myself die to podding only because of docking lag.
You're doing it wrong. :)
Also ... +1 Klandi :D
What do you do to get your pod out? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Molden Heath Angels
34
|
Posted - 2012.03.13 22:18:00 -
[147] - Quote
It is not only pods which have been behaving irrationally after incarna.
It is ALL STUFF TRYING TO ENTER WARP. You randomly get stuck at warp phase accelerating forever. And no I am not talking about this old bug which has been bothering us for at least 5 years when you turn off mwd after pressing warp your ship is stuck in alignment process.
Sometimes you can be tackled sometimes not when initiatin warp. It's feels totally random. There's no logic and this randomness is way too much to be an accident.
I have been experiencing different kind of problems with this warp drive initiation thing after incarna and they are definetly nothing like old ones.
Case A: You are aligned and you press warp button your ship is flying over 75% but nothing seems to happen for some time until suddenly warp
Case B: You're tackled after hitting warp button, way before your ship hits 75% speed, but your ship still suddenly warps.
Fix thank you. Or explain how it works so we can predict when our ship randomly enters warp or does it get tackled or not. |
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