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BurnHard
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:30:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Semper Sanguis The word "Lag" does not compute in any WTZ related argument.
If they had removed instas and put in WT15 the problem would have been solved the exact way.
WTZ is not an exclusive solution to lag or bm load. It's a colossal cop-out on behalf of the dev team.
The vast majority of people are extremely happy with WTZ - the vast majority of those people who aren't happy with WTZ are unhappy because ganking in low sec now requires much more effort than simply parking up by a gate in 0.4 and waiting.
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Semper Sanguis
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:36:00 -
[242]
Quote: The vast majority of people are extremely happy with WTZ - the vast majority of those people who aren't happy with WTZ are unhappy because ganking in low sec now requires much more effort than simply parking up by a gate in 0.4 and waiting.
This statement is wrong because you don't speak for any "majority" or "minority", and frankly you lack the ability to understand that random superficial gate-ganking isn't at all the reason why instas and now WTZ are such a critical failure of the devs, so don't hold your breath for election any time soon.
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Draconia Blackheart
Disciples of the Underverse
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:43:00 -
[243]
Originally by: Semper Sanguis
WTZ is not an exclusive solution to lag or bm load. It's a colossal cop-out on behalf of the dev team.
The greatest and most adventagous "cop-out" the game has ever seen This has gone on for 9 pages and most of you have reinforced the fact that CCP will not be reversing WTZ...so live with it and (as I hear constantly from people who have nothing else to say)..ADAPT!
Above all else CCP/EVE is there to MAKE MONEY..they are a business!
1.) IF they reverse WTZ now, everyone who had a gazillon BMS is gonna quit. and 2.) If they reverse WTZ (people who praise it like me) are gonna guit.
CCP is NOT going to see that kind of money go out the door..Its not about your playstyle, its not about the game. Its about money. Besides the BM lag, EVE is getting alot more in that just 'want to play', 'carebears' if you will, that would rather treat EVE as an empire building game rather than a "deathmatch" game. If this is not to your liking, exercise your right to LEAVE!..
People abused the bookmark system and now cry holy murder when they get spanked for it..
Cheers
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ToxicFire
Warlords Corp The Core Collective
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:44:00 -
[244]
Originally by: BurnHard
Originally by: Semper Sanguis The word "Lag" does not compute in any WTZ related argument.
If they had removed instas and put in WT15 the problem would have been solved the exact way.
WTZ is not an exclusive solution to lag or bm load. It's a colossal cop-out on behalf of the dev team.
The vast majority of people are extremely happy with WTZ - the vast majority of those people who aren't happy with WTZ are unhappy because ganking in low sec now requires much more effort than simply parking up by a gate in 0.4 and waiting.
I could also say the vast majority of your vast majority don't want pvp in the game either, should ccp give it to them. You'd probably say yes, but the answer is f*** no simply because it wouldn't be eve anymore it would be WoW in space. Seriously the only reason people are happy with warp to zero is they had the inability to learn to deal with issues such as gate camping by finding alternatives. Why should everyone have the game easy without any work. Seriously if someones not smart enough to stop going through a gate he's been ganked at repeatedly do you reward him?
Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
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ToxicFire
Warlords Corp The Core Collective
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:47:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Draconia Blackheart
Originally by: Semper Sanguis
WTZ is not an exclusive solution to lag or bm load. It's a colossal cop-out on behalf of the dev team.
The greatest and most adventagous "cop-out" the game has ever seen This has gone on for 9 pages and most of you have reinforced the fact that CCP will not be reversing WTZ...so live with it and (as I hear constantly from people who have nothing else to say)..ADAPT!
Above all else CCP/EVE is there to MAKE MONEY..they are a business!
1.) IF they reverse WTZ now, everyone who had a gazillon BMS is gonna quit. and 2.) If they reverse WTZ (people who praise it like me) are gonna guit.
CCP is NOT going to see that kind of money go out the door..Its not about your playstyle, its not about the game. Its about money. Besides the BM lag, EVE is getting alot more in that just 'want to play', 'carebears' if you will, that would rather treat EVE as an empire building game rather than a "deathmatch" game. If this is not to your liking, exercise your right to LEAVE!..
People abused the bookmark system and now cry holy murder when they get spanked for it..
Cheers
lets point out the flaw in your argument... Everyone who disagrees with warp to zero strongly will quit. You'll come back with the argument no they won't they'll just use warp to zero and put up with it. My answer Prove It, Your answer You Can't, My Answer Which also means you can't prove people that praise wtz or people that had a gazillion bookmarks will quit, which in short makes your argument pointless futile and now defunct
Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
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Draconia Blackheart
Disciples of the Underverse
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:54:00 -
[246]
Originally by: ToxicFire
lets point out the flaw in your argument... Everyone who disagrees with warp to zero strongly will quit. You'll come back with the argument no they won't they'll just use warp to zero and put up with it. My answer Prove It, Your answer You Can't, My Answer Which also means you can't prove people that praise wtz or people that had a gazillion bookmarks will quit, which in short makes your argument pointless futile and now defunct
"Lets point out", I CAN prove it..what I said above is not MY opinion..(if you know how to read forums, which I have stong doubts about) it is the opinions of people on these forums not mine. I don't see a massive exodus of people since WTZ came in, only a few malcontents that SAY they are going..so YOUR comment on that is "pointless and defunct"..
Have a Nice Day..
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Semper Sanguis
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:57:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Draconia Blackheart
Originally by: Semper Sanguis
WTZ is not an exclusive solution to lag or bm load. It's a colossal cop-out on behalf of the dev team.
The greatest and most adventagous "cop-out" the game has ever seen This has gone on for 9 pages and most of you have reinforced the fact that CCP will not be reversing WTZ...so live with it and (as I hear constantly from people who have nothing else to say)..ADAPT!
Above all else CCP/EVE is there to MAKE MONEY..they are a business!
1.) IF they reverse WTZ now, everyone who had a gazillon BMS is gonna quit. and 2.) If they reverse WTZ (people who praise it like me) are gonna guit.
CCP is NOT going to see that kind of money go out the door..Its not about your playstyle, its not about the game. Its about money. Besides the BM lag, EVE is getting alot more in that just 'want to play', 'carebears' if you will, that would rather treat EVE as an empire building game rather than a "deathmatch" game. If this is not to your liking, exercise your right to LEAVE!..
People abused the bookmark system and now cry holy murder when they get spanked for it..
Cheers
So basically, your whole argument is based on the condition that you're sleeping with the CEO of CCP and he tells you their business plans and secrets during pillow-talk. Otherwise, you're just talking as if you know something, but infact know nothing.
How many people would quit if WTZ was turned into WT15 today? 1000? 2000? 10000? Who can say for sure? Answer is; no one, not you especially. People like you did prophesize that half of the player base would quit with a) the missile changes b) the tracking changes c) random nerfs etc. etc. and it has never happened. Historically, we have a bunch of doomsday preachers who are constantly proven WRONG by the fact that the game hasn't died every time they cried about something.
CCP is a Business, yeah, and in the business world, when you carve a niche in a market where predators like Blizzard and Sony roam around squashing every little MMO, you keep by the reason why you survived in the first place. (Hint: That reason isn't silly pointless third-class carebear grinding, npc content, try-hard roleplaying or ADDING FEATURES TO THE GAME THAT DUMB IT DOWN TO MAKE IT EASIER AND SIMPLER FOR THE LAZY AND STAGNATED CLICK-REPEAT-HOARD GAMERS.
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BoBoZoBo
Foundation R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:58:00 -
[248]
Edited by: BoBoZoBo on 02/12/2006 23:05:47 NO Keep WTZ - CASE IN POIT!!!!
Ive been playing since beta and have never been podded ... untill last night.. ATFER the WTZ took effect.
So all this get rid of WTZ is BS.... obviously there are pople using the resources the devs gave them quite sucessfully.
Just get creative.
- - -
As far as you argument about people quitting, I was plaaning to quit untill I heard they were bringing WTZ. I still get down and dirty, but for me it was an issue of time. I cant play for 10+ like some of the campers. I was (am) able to do more when I log on to EVE, as a result I will actually play more probably. I for one appreciate that. And i still get the risk associated with travel in 0.0, check the map, people are still getting podded.
I also appreciate, that now I have time to fight REAL opponents, not just some camper catching a noob due to dumb luck in a random location. We still fight like hell, only we do it as the above poster mentioned.. we do it by building empiresa and invading space.
Get rid of time consuming petty thieves, keep WTZ. =========================
Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9
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HermIone's
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:58:00 -
[249]
I like warp to 0 so leave it in.
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Draconia Blackheart
Disciples of the Underverse
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Posted - 2006.12.02 23:00:00 -
[250]
Edited by: Draconia Blackheart on 02/12/2006 23:01:05
Semper.. Remember to take your blood presure medication..Then count to 10!
Cheers
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Semper Sanguis
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Posted - 2006.12.02 23:04:00 -
[251]
Aw, whats the matter? Good, solid arguments not your thing?
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Capt Sparky
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Posted - 2006.12.02 23:08:00 -
[252]
warp to zero is good, we get ease db , and we get rid of some boring tedious aspects of eve( bm copying, insta creating to haul cans etc.).
Sorry for those who say it created the realism effect and not everythign shoudl be easy, for most of us with limited time for play it was time lost really.
WTZ ftw:)
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BurnHard
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Posted - 2006.12.02 23:16:00 -
[253]
Originally by: ToxicFire
I could also say the vast majority of your vast majority don't want pvp in the game either, should ccp give it to them. You'd probably say yes, but the answer is f*** no simply because it wouldn't be eve anymore it would be WoW in space. Seriously the only reason people are happy with warp to zero is they had the inability to learn to deal with issues such as gate camping by finding alternatives. Why should everyone have the game easy without any work. Seriously if someones not smart enough to stop going through a gate he's been ganked at repeatedly do you reward him?
No that isn't true at all. I love PvP, but I don't like ganking. The benefits of WTZ are far more widespread, especially within the realms of actually getting stuff done in Eve and making the game "feel" more fun to play. I would describe it as a large reduction in Cognitive Burden. Making something more difficult doesn't make it more fun, so you cannot use the argument that making things easier makes it less fun. Travel (within system and between systems) is not a fun thing to do and the longer you spend doing it, the more frustrating and tedious the game becomes. One of the main criticisms of Eve outside of the player-base is that you spend most of your time doing naff-all but approaching gates. It was this games main disease. WTZ has cured that.
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.12.02 23:20:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Draconia Blackheart
"Lets point out", I CAN prove it..what I said above is not MY opinion..(if you know how to read forums, which I have stong doubts about) it is the opinions of people on these forums not mine. I don't see a massive exodus of people since WTZ came in, only a few malcontents that SAY they are going..so YOUR comment on that is "pointless and defunct"..
Have a Nice Day..
well you have to bear with me and my opinion 'til my sub runs out .. which will happen in less than 4 weeks.
___________________
EVE: Revelations - The Game for Carebears and Gankbears
no more skill needed for PvP - only skillpoints for Large Bubble and CovOps n00b-alts |
Ehrys Marakai
Caldari Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2006.12.03 00:02:00 -
[255]
Why leave the game over something like this?
It's equivalent to "Whaaa I didn't get what I want!! *stomp feet, throw paddy" What's the word I'm looking for... Oh yeah, childish...
WTZ has it's advantages, it also has it's disadvantages. WTZ makes people complacent.
Many many of us use insta's. This is without doubt. (Otherwise there would be no market for them) So, tell me when have you been ganked travelling through low-sec? I'll answer this for you, it's on the other side as you're trying to warp away.
Combat aside...
This does present a problem for the current trade hubs, undoubtedly. So much in fact it's near impossible to do anything in Jita/Motsu/Rens etc. What does this cause? It means players aren't willing to spend 25+ minutes trying to buy a single item and will go somewhere else. This will remove the trade hub problem, but very slowly.
In my opinion, server performance has improved, although this may be a co-incidence with the patch. This may be due to the removal of several hundred thousand BM's from the database, or maybe better server code.
WTZ removes the tedium of gate to gate and docking travel. It means players can spend more time actually playing the game, especially if you cannot afford or do not wish to purchase a BM set.
If you *really* have a problem with not being able to pop people on the way to a gate, goto 0.0 and camp there with a bubble. Get some guts and go out of protected space and actually BE a pirate.
The End
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Dixon
Caldari Hells Donkeys
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Posted - 2006.12.03 00:24:00 -
[256]
Originally by: Semper Sanguis ADDING FEATURES TO THE GAME THAT DUMB IT DOWN TO MAKE IT EASIER AND SIMPLER FOR THE LAZY AND STAGNATED CLICK-REPEAT-HOARD GAMERS.[/i]
Easy and simple? Was it so terribly hard and complex for you click-repeating those insta-BMs? This change has a minimal effect on gameplay as almost everybody who traveled through non-secure space had instas everywhere, this isn't making anybody dumber.
I don't care how many (if any) quit because of this, that is not the point. And neither is lag. It's just cutting down excessive travel time that can make the game boring and games should generally try not to be boring. - - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.12.03 00:38:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Ehrys Marakai Why leave the game over something like this?
It's equivalent to "Whaaa I didn't get what I want!! *stomp feet, throw paddy" What's the word I'm looking for... Oh yeah, childish...
WTZ has it's advantages, it also has it's disadvantages. WTZ makes people complacent.
Many many of us use insta's. This is without doubt. (Otherwise there would be no market for them) So, tell me when have you been ganked travelling through low-sec? I'll answer this for you, it's on the other side as you're trying to warp away.
Combat aside...
This does present a problem for the current trade hubs, undoubtedly. So much in fact it's near impossible to do anything in Jita/Motsu/Rens etc. What does this cause? It means players aren't willing to spend 25+ minutes trying to buy a single item and will go somewhere else. This will remove the trade hub problem, but very slowly.
In my opinion, server performance has improved, although this may be a co-incidence with the patch. This may be due to the removal of several hundred thousand BM's from the database, or maybe better server code.
WTZ removes the tedium of gate to gate and docking travel. It means players can spend more time actually playing the game, especially if you cannot afford or do not wish to purchase a BM set.
If you *really* have a problem with not being able to pop people on the way to a gate, goto 0.0 and camp there with a bubble. Get some guts and go out of protected space and actually BE a pirate.
The End
if this post was directed at me ...
well - as i allready said once ..
i don't play EVE to camp a gate, i play EVE for the chase and the hunt.
the rest is up to you to figure it out. ___________________
EVE: Revelations - The Game for Carebears and Gankbears
no more skill needed for PvP - only skillpoints for Large Bubble and CovOps n00b-alts |
Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.12.03 00:40:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Semper Sanguis ADDING FEATURES TO THE GAME THAT DUMB IT DOWN TO MAKE IT EASIER AND SIMPLER FOR THE LAZY AND STAGNATED CLICK-REPEAT-HOARD GAMERS.[/i]
Easy and simple? Was it so terribly hard and complex for you click-repeating those insta-BMs? This change has a minimal effect on gameplay as almost everybody who traveled through non-secure space had instas everywhere, this isn't making anybody dumber.
fly once without instas through hostile 0.0 - then you'll know how instas/WTZ dumb this game down. ___________________
EVE: Revelations - The Game for Carebears and Gankbears
no more skill needed for PvP - only skillpoints for Large Bubble and CovOps n00b-alts |
Dixon
Caldari Hells Donkeys
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Posted - 2006.12.03 00:55:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Originally by: Dixon
Originally by: Semper Sanguis ADDING FEATURES TO THE GAME THAT DUMB IT DOWN TO MAKE IT EASIER AND SIMPLER FOR THE LAZY AND STAGNATED CLICK-REPEAT-HOARD GAMERS.[/i]
Easy and simple? Was it so terribly hard and complex for you click-repeating those insta-BMs? This change has a minimal effect on gameplay as almost everybody who traveled through non-secure space had instas everywhere, this isn't making anybody dumber.
fly once without instas through hostile 0.0 - then you'll know how instas/WTZ dumb this game down.
I have on several occasions flown through hostile 0.0 without instas and only once been killed by a gate camp. I had less than 100 BMs, most of them were tactical safespots. I doubt my intelligence has dropped severely due to WTZ, perhaps that's just me. Now stop acting so damn superior and face the facts... WTZ is here to stay. - - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
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Izo Azlion
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.12.03 00:55:00 -
[260]
9 pages and 7000 Views,
not one Dev response?
I understand the BM's cause server lag, and thats bad that they do. I'm happy BM's are gone... But I think 0km is a bad thing. As said before, if I wanted to travel fast I'd jump in a Inty and get to where I'm going.
All I have to do now is be at my PC and click, the longest bit in most instances is either physically jumping, or actually being in warp... Both of which times I cannot be engaged.
Nah CCP, I appreciate you lightening the Server load, because god knows that cannot be easy... But warp to 0km for *everywhere* and not just Gate to Gate was a bad thing... And I dont see why it should have been done that way...
Just my thoughts...
/signed for the OP anyway.
Izo Azlion.
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Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.12.03 01:00:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Dixon stuff
fly once without instas through hostile 0.0 - then you'll know how instas/WTZ dumb this game down.
I have on several occasions flown through hostile 0.0 without instas and only once been killed by a gate camp. I had less than 100 BMs, most of them were tactical safespots. I doubt my intelligence has dropped severely due to WTZ, perhaps that's just me. Now stop acting so damn superior and face the facts... WTZ is here to stay.
it's not you who got dumbed down - it's the game.
or do you want to tell me that WTZ need as much thought and planing (especially: what's my plan if suddenly hostiles jump into the system?) as without WTZ/instas? ___________________
EVE: Revelations - The Game for Carebears and Gankbears
no more skill needed for PvP - only skillpoints for Large Bubble and CovOps n00b-alts |
Izo Azlion
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.12.03 01:13:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Dixon Edited by: Dixon on 03/12/2006 01:10:29
Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte
it's not you who got dumbed down - it's the game.
or do you want to tell me that WTZ need as much thought and planing (especially: what's my plan if suddenly hostiles jump into the system?) as without WTZ/instas?
what's my plan if suddenly hostiles jump into the system?
Pre WTZ: Log off/use insta/cloak/kill them all Post WTZ: Log off/use WTZ/cloak/kill them all
The difference being 'use WTZ' will be slightly more common than 'use insta' but 'log off' might get less popular.
Because sometimes theres an ounce of hope they might land at 15km, and now you know full well theres no point being in the same local with them. Izo Azlion.
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Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.12.03 01:14:00 -
[263]
uhmm .. ok .. maybe i should have made my point clearer ...
if you approach the gate because you don't have instas - you need to keep an eye on local, you need to scan for ships warping in on your gate if there were people allready in local with you, you need to keep an eye on the gate you're approaching - maybe there's some hostiles jumping in. then you need to know what you're doing when some hostiles are in warp to your gate/uncloak near you.
while with WTZ/instas you warp on 0m to the gate and jump through.
___________________
EVE: Revelations - The Game for Carebears and Gankbears
no more skill needed for PvP - only skillpoints for Large Bubble and CovOps n00b-alts |
McBrite
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2006.12.03 01:16:00 -
[264]
bla bla bla, who cares, either adapt or quit... simple...
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Brugar
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Posted - 2006.12.03 01:17:00 -
[265]
What's funny, is that the people who don't like WTZ, are the very same people who use it.
There is no one, not one person that will not use it or does not use it.
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Dixon
Caldari Hells Donkeys
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Posted - 2006.12.03 01:20:00 -
[266]
Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte uhmm .. ok .. maybe i should have made my point clearer ...
if you approach the gate because you don't have instas - you need to keep an eye on local, you need to scan for ships warping in on your gate if there were people allready in local with you, you need to keep an eye on the gate you're approaching - maybe there's some hostiles jumping in. then you need to know what you're doing when some hostiles are in warp to your gate/uncloak near you.
while with WTZ/instas you warp on 0m to the gate and jump through.
True, these situations will be different, but I feel it's a small price to pay for less travel time tbh. The real danger was always on the other side of the gate anyway, and it still is. - - - - - -
Originally by: Ath Amon as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
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Sen Goku
Es and Whizz
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Posted - 2006.12.03 01:57:00 -
[267]
I've never really understood the 'less travel time' arguement. Fit a MWD? It takes a whole 1-2 seconds longer to get to the gate than a BM.
If that means you can't take a mission specced Raven or whatever without changing fittings for travel..well surely thats how it should be..?
You can't have everything after all. I don't like Wt0 much, and I'm kinda hoping CCP will pull something out the bag on this one, but if not then, well, I'll just get on with it. I just hope things don't get any easier or this game will lose the very thing that makes it stand out from the drab selection of other MMO's out there, that cater for the 'I want it now' crowd.
Just my opinion for what its worth
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Imba Bambi
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Posted - 2006.12.03 02:48:00 -
[268]
Yeah I dislike WTZ as well, especially for the impact it has on empire warfare. There really many people didnt have instas for all gates and stations... really sucks now.
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Jarrod0987
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.03 02:53:00 -
[269]
Edited by: Jarrod0987 on 03/12/2006 02:56:18 I love warp to 0. Im sorry if that interfears with Piracy. I would even be ok with the idea of makign it only work in Hi sec. Far as I'm concerned , Low sec is pirate area and Hi sec should be safe for people who choose not to be involved with wars and pirates. if you go into low sec or mine without a secure can thats your choice. If you don't want to be in a war don't join a corp. But )km in hi sec helps more then in hurts. If your mad because you can't kill someone in hi sec now I'm sorry but I don't feel sorry for you. maybe they shoudl do something for low sec though. :D |
Soporo
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Posted - 2006.12.03 03:09:00 -
[270]
Love WT0.
Now I can actually fly a BS 12 jumps to a friends mission and help out or vice versa.
Or haul, or move, or just check stuff out, or Explore, or whatever much easier much faster.
I can now have a better chance (one way) to actually take advantage of the crappy LowSec market. Which is a good thing for anyone in LowSec because the Missioners sure as hell arent gonna be screwing around there much anymore.
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