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Arktiger
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Posted - 2006.12.02 11:14:00 -
[211]
Edited by: Arktiger on 02/12/2006 11:17:01 I love the new warp to 0 option.
Before this, having to do 52 jumps each way in a cargo podded Badger sucked ass.
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Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.02 11:29:00 -
[212]
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Kagura Nikon
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Posted - 2006.12.02 11:30:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Stitcher Basically, it boils down to either:
1: people are allowed to warp to 0m
2: people are not allowed to warp to 0m, but lag up the game with BMs and do it anyway.
I'm afraid your opinions are not relevant here, folks.
really no.. there is a 3rd option that i suggested and no one listened.
Make all warps have a 0-15km RANDOM error on a spehere around target.
That would remove instas completely since when you made an insta you would not land on it second time you used it... and would not remove the HUNT FUN....
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.12.02 12:17:00 -
[214]
Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 02/12/2006 12:27:09
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 I am suggesting that if you fly an inty that costs 10 mill and you are gonna try to kill a Bs worth 100 mill, then you should need atleast 6 or more inty's to have a chance, and the BS pilot should have a farking chance to kill off a few intys maybe... right now 1 inty can tackle hold and work over a Bs indefenitely because they BS will simply miss nearly every single time.... The Bs has no chance to get away but if the inty suddenly decides things might go bad he can be assured to get away from the BS.... Something needs to change people are catching on and eve pvp is turning into fleets of small cheap ships that can safely and risk free hit and run to incur big losses on others. NO Bs shouldnt be pwn mobiles, but we need a middle ground, and right small cheap ships are too effective in pvp.
and i always thought heavy NOS and light drones kill tacklers ... let me check ... allmost any BS has a free utility slot and enough drone bay to use 5 light drones.
uh oh ... now only tacklers using faction scramblers are able to hold a BS infinte in place. and guess what an interceptor using a faction scram is coming close to the 100mio isk pricetag.
oh wait .. i'm not a serious EVE player because i hadn't BMs for the south .. cool.
in some ways instas were following the "actions and consequences" philosophy. you wanted to be safe? invest time and ISK ... and deal with the caused lag by them. the only REAL problem with instas was the fact they lagged not only the owner but (around three corners) everyone in the cluster.
btw - more power to kagura ___________________
EVE: Revelations - The Game for Carebears and Gankbears
no more skill needed for PvP - only skillpoints for Large Bubble and CovOps n00b-alts |
Sen Goku
Es and Whizz
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Posted - 2006.12.02 12:22:00 -
[215]
I agree with Kagura, it's a good compromise.
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.02 13:09:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Stitcher Basically, it boils down to either:
1: people are allowed to warp to 0m
2: people are not allowed to warp to 0m, but lag up the game with BMs and do it anyway.
I'm afraid your opinions are not relevant here, folks.
really no.. there is a 3rd option that i suggested and no one listened.
Make all warps have a 0-15km RANDOM error on a spehere around target.
That would remove instas completely since when you made an insta you would not land on it second time you used it... and would not remove the HUNT FUN....
No it isn't, then all I've got to do is make the displacement of that random 15km sphere relatively small. How? I make my insta-BM 100km from the gate, warp to 100 on it. Even if I land 15 km in a random sphere around the BM, I still have an excellent chance of landing within jump range on the gate.
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Bodziu
Gallente No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.12.02 13:28:00 -
[217]
I think warp to 0 is ok. i was 1.5 year in 0.0 and have a ton off bms beacause live in 0.0 without them is a death. How i see that removed bms help a lot. 2 fleets meeting in alliance wars evry fleet meet 200 persons each. How you think how many bms that 400 peoples have in 1 node? I cant even imagine. think about how much cpu ram it take from server. Now I was in 1.0 sec system with 120-200 persons in local and before new expansion come it wasnt playble when peoples reach around 160 in local. Now when most o that persons delete that bms like i made it a much smooth game play. it is bad? I dont think so. In 0.0 you can buble gate by smal or medium or even large mobile buble or more simple flywith interdictor. Do you remember too that autopilot still warp to 15km to the gate? Im for warp to 0 it help a lot with server and not get too much in gameplay.
With regards Bodziu
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babyblue
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Posted - 2006.12.02 13:36:00 -
[218]
Edited by: babyblue on 02/12/2006 13:37:08
Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte
do i get this right?
in beta it was "warp to 3km" ... but then the Devs saw - "nah .. that's not good for the game in the way we intended it to be, they are travelling to fast .. New Eden should be perceived as a vast space" ...
so they increased the traveltime with "warp to 15km", and all the years they didn't had problems with it from a gameplay perspective (else they would have decreased the warp to distance)
No this isn't right. The original distance was increased in order to create greater "zones of interaction". It was recognized that the early game (without bubbles, interdictors, etc.) gave no opportunities for players to fight each other - err, I mean for one player to gank the other [because we all know that if two players want to fight each other, they can regardless of warp distance!]. So it was increased to 15km; giving 15km for one player to "interact" with the other.
The main problem with this was that it resulted in travel times increasing. Not just travelling from one side of the universe to the other, but travelling from here to next-door. Increasing travel times are directly correlated with increasing boredom/frustration (I've spent approximately 1/2 my characters age actually susbscribed because of this), so the player-base invented the "insta". As with all fantastic ideas, the insta quickly spread (Meme theory) resulting in system performance problems.
Now here is an analogy to help: at my University (many years ago), a new building was constructed with a large patch of grass to the side. Rather than cut out and make a path across the grass for people to walk from one building to the other, the University left it to grow. After a year, a path had developed where the grass didn't grow because students/staff had walked from one point to the other on their preferred route. Now the builders came along and filled in this path with concrete. The end result was an optimal preferred path from A to B for the students.
So as with all things involving human activity, it is possible to proscribe the "rules" or let people create them themselves. In the case of WTZ, the players made their own path (with bookmarks) and CCP have simply filled it in with concrete. The result of all of this is a better game.
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Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.02 15:43:00 -
[219]
hmm.. consider this
what if: when you set an enemy into your buddies, and set their standing to exactly -5.5 - all your shots would automatically do wrecking damage on every hit.
result: everyone would set every person in eve to -5.5 to get full damage. Not to do so would be stupid, because you would be fighting gimped by comparison... the DB would take a bit hit as everyone would have their buddies list getting very very big...
answer? equivalent to wtz - CCP makes it that all shots automatically do wrecking damage - negating everything about tracking.. yes, easier game, everyone on equal standing again.
good idea?
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.02 16:39:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Varis hmm.. consider this
what if: when you set an enemy into your buddies, and set their standing to exactly -5.5 - all your shots would automatically do wrecking damage on every hit.
result: everyone would set every person in eve to -5.5 to get full damage. Not to do so would be stupid, because you would be fighting gimped by comparison... the DB would take a bit hit as everyone would have their buddies list getting very very big...
answer? equivalent to wtz - CCP makes it that all shots automatically do wrecking damage - negating everything about tracking.. yes, easier game, everyone on equal standing again.
good idea?
I like that analogy. I might have to steal it :)
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.02 16:40:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Sever Aldaria
Originally by: James Lyrus Funnily enough, I have a corp filled with people I know IRL. We live in the same system, and it's actually pretty easy to 'interact'.
I assume its those same people you pvp against then since you don't leave? jk. Most corps aren't comprised of people that all know each other IRL though, nor that all only play in one system. My story wasn't focusing on people being in different systems as much as the time for 15km gate travels to every gate and leading to problems with it's unnecessary time wastage. Either way, they still roam systems for pvp (more so in 0.0 than low sec anyway).
Or fly a fast ship, rather than a slow one. Cruisers with MWDs move pretty quick without instas...
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000Hunter000
Gallente The Lookers
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Posted - 2006.12.02 17:34:00 -
[222]
man what a fuss!
Warping AWAY from a gate was always the more tricky part as then u could be intercepted, warping to a gate was usually bookmarked anyways.
Now stabs are nerfed (god knows why cuz them filling up low slots was a nerf enough allready) and several other improvements have been introduced and people are still complaining.
Well i like it and not specifically cuz it makes flying through low sec safer but because it shortens travels to unbookmarked places. Resized tag... hope this pleases the tag ninjas from ccp :p
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Loftur sterki
Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2006.12.02 20:23:00 -
[223]
This is nothing to argue about.... Those of you who miss 15k jumps adjust he default warp to 15km..... Those of you living from killin plp without instas.. get a decent job....
If its so anoying play WOW...
Have a nice day ** Grumpy old Viking ** |
Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.02 20:33:00 -
[224]
Originally by: 000Hunter000 7 Well i like it and not specifically cuz it makes flying through low sec safer but because it shortens travels to unbookmarked places.
umm, thats sorta why we're complaining. - mainly that it shortens travel time to everyone - not just those who fit for it.
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Wibiq
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Posted - 2006.12.02 21:02:00 -
[225]
The point that I see everyone ignoring is an out of game issue. Instas were an exploit that were never intended to function as they so very efficiently did. Yes, most players used them to at least some extent. BUT, the real issue isn't fixing/nerfing the game balance. IT WAS REMAINING IN BUSINESS. CCP had a choice: accept a commonly used exploit as a fact of life and change the mechanics of the game to compensate for it, OR buy tons of new hardware and PASS THE COST ON TO THE CONSUMER. WTZ wasn't a game balance fix, it was a financial necessity. CCP could either give a nod to the playstyles of the majority of their customers, or price themselves out of the business. Not much of a choice.
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.12.02 21:06:00 -
[226]
Edited by: Ishquar Teh''Sainte on 02/12/2006 21:08:19
Originally by: Wibiq CCP had a choice: accept a commonly used exploit as a fact of life and change the mechanics of the game to compensate for it, OR buy tons of new hardware and PASS THE COST ON TO THE CONSUMER.
or they could have fixed the exploit instead of institutionalizing(sp?) it ___________________
EVE: Revelations - The Game for Carebears and Gankbears
no more skill needed for PvP - only skillpoints for Large Bubble and CovOps n00b-alts |
Allen Deckard
Gallente LFC Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.02 21:12:00 -
[227]
heck lets just get rid of warping all together.
Just think how big eve would feel then. I'd be great.
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Anghi
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Posted - 2006.12.02 21:12:00 -
[228]
i love wt0...every day a bit more |
Krravinn
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Posted - 2006.12.02 21:14:00 -
[229]
One thing in years of gaming that I have noticed: every exploit fix invariably generates a work-around from clever players. I don't personally think that WTZ was inherently a good idea as such, but it did fix the underlying problem by removing an exploit. Making a exploit legal IS removing the exploit. Maybe it could have been done in several different ways. Maybe not. I have seen some really interesting proposals for the alternate fixes. BUT, I applaud CCP for fixing the DB issues, and not spending too much time on a solution that would have been eventually defeated. The player base required it. Prohibition being repealed did the same thing. People were gonna find a way to get drunk one way or the other, so the US government bowed to necessity and made it legal again, thereby freeing up law enforcement resources to combat "real" crime. Instas were a fact of life, love em or hate em. WTZ fixes the problem with the DB. Let CCP now work on "real" problems. The player base made WTZ inevitable.
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Varis
Jericho Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.02 21:28:00 -
[230]
well, that the only thing going for it in my eyes - that there will be no longer anything to "work around" as it'll be impossible to move any faster.......
The BMs are still in game at the moment - although that'll be gone next tuesday (hopefully)
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darklegionca
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Posted - 2006.12.02 21:45:00 -
[231]
i make it faster to where i need to go with warp to 0 if you want to be lazy and use the autopilot then go afk then do that but warp to 0 should stay ------------------------------------ darklegionca - One name. One legend. |
Ruciza
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:08:00 -
[232]
Edited by: Ruciza on 02/12/2006 22:13:16 The argument "if you don't want to wait that use an interceptor" must be a joke. Dude...what are haulers and freigthters good for then?
Essentially, nothing much happened but the introduction a time saver for everybody. E-v-e-r-y-b-o-d-y. You have it, your competition has it. Nobody has any special advantage.
Slow boating is not acceptable for real people with real lives who play a game for fun. And this is the argument that beats all meta-level game considerations. End of story. Real life wins. You lose.
My fun multiplied manifold with my new global insta set. Good decision.
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Ruciza
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:10:00 -
[233]
Edited by: Ruciza on 02/12/2006 22:11:19
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ToxicFire
Warlords Corp The Core Collective
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:12:00 -
[234]
One of the issues that hasn't really been considered yet is the fact that now with revelations there will be a lot of autopilot macro's running trade routes and courier missions. People will go yarrrrrrr but you could do that before with insta's anyway. Yes you probably could but the way people and places worked with insta's made it infinitely more complex. Now it would be frankly very simple to macro a warp to zero autopilot. It would also be far harder to detect.
Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
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Del369
Caldari Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:17:00 -
[235]
/definately 100% NOT signed, luv warp to 0, thanks ccp best game addition i've seen yet
I want to die quietly in my sleep just like my dear old grandma, and not screaming in terror like her passengers!! |
Semper Sanguis
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:17:00 -
[236]
Quote: Essentially, nothing much happened but the introduction a time saver for everybody. E-v-e-r-y-b-o-d-y. You have it, your competition has it. Nobody has any special advantage.
Ain't that just great? Why don't we just remove all ships and issue a standard SpaceShip I for everyone too? It'd level the playing field and NO ONE WOULD HAVE ANY SPECIAL ADVANTAGE.
You know why? Because simplifying the game does not make it better in any way. If there was no way to travel fast, I'd understand people wanting WTZ, but that is not the case. With WT15, ships that are inheritly mobile and fast travel faster, big slow ships with better firepower on the other hand are slower and more time-consuming. It is a matter of strategy, choice and simple common sense which one you choose.
That point of decision making is now pretty much gone. No one has any special advantage beyond a few seconds of aligning time and another 3-5 seconds of warptime.
Good job CCP. Continue "leveling the playing field". Lets see how far you can dumb the game down until it becomes unbearable due to simplicity. It'll be far shorter than before it becomes unbearable due to long travel times with ships that are supposed to be slow in the first place as a drawback.
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ToxicFire
Warlords Corp The Core Collective
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:17:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Ruciza Edited by: Ruciza on 02/12/2006 22:13:16 The argument "if you don't want to wait that use an interceptor" must be a joke. Dude...what are haulers and freigthters good for then?
Essentially, nothing much happened but the introduction a time saver for everybody. E-v-e-r-y-b-o-d-y. You have it, your competition has it. Nobody has any special advantage.
Slow boating is not acceptable for real people with real lives who play a game for fun. And this is the argument that beats all meta-level game considerations. End of story. Real life wins. You lose.
My fun multiplied manifold with my new global insta set. Good decision.
pftt that sounds like the post of someone who doesn't have patience and wants everything now now now, lemme guess your one of these people that plays fps games with cheats on just so you can get to all the content asap.
The time invested in something gave it more value in game, Trade for example the time shifting stuff back and forth was a big component of its value, now its a couple of minutes just jumping.
Infact im going to go as far to say I reckon that now we have warp to zero lag is going to get worse... why because everyones instaing while traveling the number of session changes per arbitary period of time will increase, this mean database access goes up thus producing lag.
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Wibiq
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:20:00 -
[238]
While the session changes will probably go up, once the bookmarks are deleted the number of hits to the DB will still go down. One person jumping with 4k bookmarks will always be a bigger hit than 20 people jumping with 20-30 bookmarks each.
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ToxicFire
Warlords Corp The Core Collective
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:23:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Semper Sanguis
Quote: Essentially, nothing much happened but the introduction a time saver for everybody. E-v-e-r-y-b-o-d-y. You have it, your competition has it. Nobody has any special advantage.
Ain't that just great? Why don't we just remove all ships and issue a standard SpaceShip I for everyone too? It'd level the playing field and NO ONE WOULD HAVE ANY SPECIAL ADVANTAGE.
You know why? Because simplifying the game does not make it better in any way. If there was no way to travel fast, I'd understand people wanting WTZ, but that is not the case. With WT15, ships that are inheritly mobile and fast travel faster, big slow ships with better firepower on the other hand are slower and more time-consuming. It is a matter of strategy, choice and simple common sense which one you choose.
That point of decision making is now pretty much gone. No one has any special advantage beyond a few seconds of aligning time and another 3-5 seconds of warptime.
Good job CCP. Continue "leveling the playing field". Lets see how far you can dumb the game down until it becomes unbearable due to simplicity. It'll be far shorter than before it becomes unbearable due to long travel times with ships that are supposed to be slow in the first place as a drawback.
Have to Echo Semper here, to vaugely quote foamy the squirrel, im fed up with people dumbing down their idea's for the masses. EVE has worked fine with insta's for years, DO NOT BRING UP THE ISSUE OF LAG THEY CAUSED, that was easily resolvable with out implementing warp to zero, warp to zero coming in and insta lag are in no way related. EVE is reknown in the gaming community for not giving its players an easy ride but making them work a little AND ITS ADMIRED FOR THAT, Start changing systems to suite the masses you give up the uniqueness of the game. Look at other MMO companies that have pulled moves like this.... they are't respected by the gaming community but are frequently mocked and discredited.
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Semper Sanguis
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Posted - 2006.12.02 22:25:00 -
[240]
The word "Lag" does not compute in any WTZ related argument.
If they had removed instas and put in WT15 the problem would have been solved the exact way.
WTZ is not an exclusive solution to lag or bm load. It's a colossal cop-out on behalf of the dev team.
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