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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Ilaister Isogen 5 203	Posted - 2015.07.15 21:14:34 - [31] - Quote These datasets only picking up 'C5 w/any null' or you pulling 'C5a w/null 1-2-3' 'C5b w/null 1' etc? Caldera, the K162s are relavant too, no? ~40% seems surprisingly high.
Daimian Mercer Tripwire Mapper 147	Posted - 2015.07.15 21:18:45 - [32] - Quote Ilaister wrote: These datasets only picking up 'C5 w/any null' or you pulling 'C5a w/null 1-2-3' 'C5b w/null 1' etc? Caldera, the K162s are relavant too, no? ~40% seems surprisingly high. I am pulling them by wormhole type and only when added. So it is not counting signatures that were later updated with one of those wormhole types. Also isn't counting signatures that have a "Leads To" of "Null-Sec" and requires the wormhole type to be one of those types mentioned. I can pull more complex data if requested - just takes me longer to write the queries Creator of Tripwire mapping tool - EVE-O thread Twitter \| [email protected]
Zappity WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 2371	Posted - 2015.07.15 21:41:11 - [33] - Quote It would be good to see more thorough data. The numbers aren't convincing. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Jack Hayson Atztech Inc. Ixtab. 249	Posted - 2015.07.15 21:42:25 - [34] - Quote Weird. Is that the data of all tripwire users combined? Those numbers appear to be extremely low... or is that because most people update the type later? (tbh. I've never really used Tripwire, so no clue how that part works) As a side note: just the number of null connections going down doesn't say very much without the number of corresponding (high class) wormhole systems. With such a small number of holes it could be just one active scanner going on vacation.
Daimian Mercer Tripwire Mapper 147	Posted - 2015.07.15 21:46:53 - [35] - Quote Jack Hayson wrote: Weird. Is that the data of all tripwire users combined? Those numbers appear to be extremely low... or is that because most people update the type later? (tbh. I've never really used Tripwire, so no clue how that part works) As a side note: just the number of null connections going down doesn't say very much without the number of corresponding (high class) wormhole systems. With such a small number of holes it could be just one active scanner going on vacation. It is for all Tripwire users. I can get more specific data - just come up with what you want me to query and I'll get you guys the stats. Creator of Tripwire mapping tool - EVE-O thread Twitter \| [email protected]
Zappity WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 2371	Posted - 2015.07.15 22:05:02 - [36] - Quote Ideally just Z142, V283, C248, K329 because the statics arenGÇÖt relevant. If possible include the sigs which were updated later GÇô the numbers shown above are too low to be meaningful and is probably due to the majority not being correctly entered up front. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Daimian Mercer Tripwire Mapper 147	Posted - 2015.07.15 22:19:07 - [37] - Quote Zappity wrote: Ideally just Z142, V283, C248, K329 because the statics arenGÇÖt relevant. If possible include the sigs which were updated later GÇô the numbers shown above are too low to be meaningful and is probably due to the majority not being correctly entered up front. As requested: http://puu.sh/j0BEp/e5c1618191.png includes sigs that were eventually updated to one of those wormhole types Creator of Tripwire mapping tool - EVE-O thread Twitter \| [email protected]
Methea Selenis Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1	Posted - 2015.07.15 22:27:21 - [38] - Quote Wow, that's really low. Probably we will notice something significant with high enough numbers if we could just see the number of worms with at least one null sec side entered per day. NS to C5 was pretty much the two-third of it. Can you group by space type or only by worm type? By the way I'm dreaming of a feature for tripwire : be able to enter just a space type/class for destination (HS, LS, NS, WHC1-3, WHC4-5, WHC6) without name. It would be even more shiny with a color code like on the eve-scout site.
calaretu Honestly We didnt know Unsettled. 361	Posted - 2015.07.15 22:30:10 - [39] - Quote Surely this is not related to nullseccers not scanning down wormholes as their day to day life now is exactly the same as it was before patch.... .... .... ..... ... ... ~Bringer of happiness http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/ .ORLY is recruiting
Daimian Mercer Tripwire Mapper 149	Posted - 2015.07.15 22:32:10 - [40] - Quote Methea Selenis wrote: Wow, that's really low. Probably we will notice something significant with high enough numbers if we could just see the number of worms with at least one null sec side entered per day. NS to C5 was pretty much the two-third of it. Can you group by space type or only by worm type? By the way I'm dreaming of a feature for tripwire : be able to enter just a space type/class for destination (HS, LS, NS, WHC1-3, WHC4-5, WHC6) without name. It would be even more shiny with a color code like on the eve-scout site. I could match the entered wormhole system to the class but that assumes everyone in the previous data pull also updated the signature with a legit system also otherwise you would lose data. I like your suggestions - something like that is already in the works.. just need to find time to finish it all up. Creator of Tripwire mapping tool - EVE-O thread Twitter \| [email protected]

Methea Selenis Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1	Posted - 2015.07.15 22:36:18 - [41] - Quote Daimian Mercer wrote: Zappity wrote: Ideally just Z142, V283, C248, K329 because the statics arenGÇÖt relevant. If possible include the sigs which were updated later GÇô the numbers shown above are too low to be meaningful and is probably due to the majority not being correctly entered up front. As requested: http://puu.sh/j0BEp/e5c1618191.png includes sigs that were eventually updated to one of those wormhole types So if I interpret these results correctly this means that Wormholes to null initiated from Worm Space are pretty much untouched while the ones initiated from Null sec, mainly N432 (see your results a few posts above) were severely nerfed. Am I correct?
Zappity WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 2371	Posted - 2015.07.15 22:40:07 - [42] - Quote Daimian Mercer wrote: Zappity wrote: Ideally just Z142, V283, C248, K329 because the statics arenGÇÖt relevant. If possible include the sigs which were updated later GÇô the numbers shown above are too low to be meaningful and is probably due to the majority not being correctly entered up front. As requested: http://puu.sh/j0BEp/e5c1618191.png includes sigs that were eventually updated to one of those wormhole types Very good, thanks. Chart: http://i.imgur.com/4RGrhTm.png Changeover was 7/7. There was a sharp drop on 9th and 10th. Lowest data point was 10th but then the highest data point was the 13th. Need more time to determine frequency change because there is too much disturbance from behaviour-driven factors (e.g. sov change and perhaps null groups stopped looking for holes after the patch. I reckon the J-space facing holes (i.e. not null-null) have dropped about 10% but that's just a guess. Null-null were nerfed hard. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.15 22:48:21 - [43] - Quote Ilaister wrote: These datasets only picking up 'C5 w/any null' or you pulling 'C5a w/null 1-2-3' 'C5b w/null 1' etc? Caldera, the K162s are relavant too, no? ~40% seems surprisingly high. K162 are generics, so they wont be in any statistic. N432 and Z142 were the 2 meaningful WH types C5-null, dunno about the others like V283 and so on. The sheer mass of chains were going via the first 2 named, which are hardly spawning since nerf. Cant remember any of the others being relevant for null-WH-null chains, maybe too rare or spawning from different classes of WH, in any case N432 and Z142 were the keystones of the wormhole highway.
Justin Cody Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 296	Posted - 2015.07.16 00:55:54 - [44] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: Ilaister wrote: These datasets only picking up 'C5 w/any null' or you pulling 'C5a w/null 1-2-3' 'C5b w/null 1' etc? Caldera, the K162s are relavant too, no? ~40% seems surprisingly high. K162 are generics, so they wont be in any statistic. N432 and Z142 were the 2 meaningful WH types C5-null, dunno about the others like V283 and so on. The sheer mass of chains were going via the first 2 named, which are hardly spawning since nerf. Cant remember any of the others being relevant for null-WH-null chains, maybe too rare or spawning from different classes of WH, in any case N432 and Z142 were the keystones of the wormhole highway. K162 are not generic. K162 is the wormhole endpoint That means that the K162 can be any of the following (on the other side for C5/6 Wh's) N432/Z142 Z132's are wandering C5 > Null Statics N432 is the reverse where the origin point is in K-Space Null. C248 were C6 > Null 48hr WH's. Low Sec > Null = S199 and those were also nerfed Here's a CHART Now you don't have to be completely ignorant - although I hear it is rather blissful. The nerf has destroyed C5/C6 space for those that like to roam nulls. Its great for Krabs though.
GizzyBoy Aperture Harmonics K162 160	Posted - 2015.07.16 03:20:23 - [45] - Quote c6 space never had many nulls, often we would look for a c5 chain to find a null, I guess you guys got spoiled a bit to much with to much null availability.
Barrogh Habalu Forever Winter Absolute Zero. 925	Posted - 2015.07.16 06:29:31 - [46] - Quote GizzyBoy wrote: c6 space never had many nulls, often we would look for a c5 chain to find a null, I guess you guys got spoiled a bit to much with to much null availability. How much is too much though? By the same token you can say that C6ers were "too spoiled with just having to look for C5 chain to go to null", connectivity of which got nerfed. Anyway, this again comes down to what I think was the issue with EVE a few years ago and maybe still is: places that are good for finding PvP are bad ones to gather resources for said PvP, forcing people to alt or at least move a lot. While it sounds kinda natural, high class WHs were in unique position of providing both opportunities, being almost perfect for both (given right system) at a price of providing lesser ability to influence stuff like political map and most market segments (for those who care about such things). I'm not really convinced that making sure every nook of space is flawed to live in is the best sounding idea.
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 06:51:21 - [47] - Quote Justin Cody wrote: K162 are not generic. K162 is the wormhole endpoint whatever you name it. What I'm saying is that K162 doesnt say anything about the actual WH type. I'm not a wormhole king but these can be anything, why I said "generic". Justin Cody wrote: Now you don't have to be completely ignorant - although I hear it is rather blissful. The nerf has destroyed C5/C6 space for those that like to roam nulls. Its great for Krabs though. ignorant? What are you actually trying to argue? I said N432/Z142 were the major 2 types for connecting null though meaningful chains and that got ****** up. S199 were good too but too rare to be of any relevance.
Jack Miton WeebleCORP 4570	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:01:41 - [48] - Quote Holy mother of non issues batman! Even if you had to scan out to HS every time and head to the nearest NS from there, it would STILL be easy to get to NS from any WH class. On the other hand, if you miss NS so much, maybe it's time to move there? (Or at least Thera which is actually exactly what you want.) The sense of entitlement from large WH groups is nauseating. Need to be completely safe in our farming. No PVP allowed in C6s, that's where we farm. Much have zero effort access to NS at all times, preferably just spawn the WHs right next to the ratting Nyxs kthnx... I'm not really sure why it needs to keep being said but wspace is NOT nullsec. Maybe if you want full time access to nullsec, you should think about how to do that, rather than just b!tch and moan about it on the forums, when you KNOW CCP will not do anything to appease you. Trust me, they really wont! no matter how hard you cry about it. There is no Bob. Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:08:11 - [49] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: Holy mother of non issues batman! if it wasnt an issue, we and many others werent complaining. Jack Miton wrote: Even if you had to scan out to HS every time and head to the nearest NS from there, it would STILL be easy to get to NS from any WH class. this thread is not about going into nullsec from high sec. Jack Miton wrote: On the other hand, if you miss NS so much, maybe it's time to move there? (Or at least Thera which is actually exactly what you want.) this thread is about wrecked WH connections, you have issues to comprehend? Jack Miton wrote: The sense of entitlement from large WH groups is nauseating. Need to be completely safe in our farming. No PVP allowed in C6s, that's where we farm. Much have zero effort access to NS at all times, preferably just spawn the WHs right next to the ratting Nyxs kthnx... entitlement? Just pointing out the bad consequences of patch. Right now, deep null bears are completely safe in farming, since WH were a nice way to get to them for ganking. On the other hand, null-C5 chains were a nice way to get around nullsec, once you put enough effort in probing, this was a second valid WH use which got wrecked. Jack Miton wrote: I'm not really sure why it needs to keep being said but wspace is NOT nullsec. Maybe if you want full time access to nullsec, you should think about how to do that, rather than just b!tch and moan about it on the forums, when you KNOW CCP will not do anything to appease you. Trust me, they really wont! no matter how hard you cry about it. what is your point of counter-whining? You whining about other people's whining wont change anything nor does it serve a purpose.
Zappity WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 2371	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:11:41 - [50] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: On the other hand, if you miss NS so much, maybe it's time to move there? (Or at least Thera which is actually exactly what you want.) Yeah, have to admit that the first thing I did was check eve-scout.com. Still half a dozen null connections (maybe they are static - I forget?) which is great. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.

Erica Dusette Isogen 5 48141	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:23:15 - [51] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: I'm not really sure why it needs to keep being said but wspace is NOT nullsec. I miss you. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Winthorp 3554	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:25:47 - [52] - Quote I am going to go against the grain here with this one and while i realise my opinion means **** all and is usually frowned upon but just like i always do i am going to give it anyway. So for far too long people have lived in the gravy train of WH ISK and filled their time with the endless null roams. So OP are the limitless amounts of null connections that you can very literally with a roll or two cherry pick the null region you want to target, and groups literally do do this. This is definitely going to close the gaps on noobs spreadsheet that doesn't have a filter for WH space and k-space kills. People saying that their content and fun is now gone should realise that WH space should have been a better source of your content/fun. I do think though that people have always gone to null roaming as one of there first options of things to do because of lack of ways to create content in wh space though. I am not saying people shouldn't roam null at all, it is a great option and i am only saying what we had was far to OP. I think the only downside to this is honestly the lack of options it will have for people in WH space to move caps around combined with jump changes. I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's". Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
Mikha'el Airuta Sigin-tarag Anoikis Ronin 1379	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:33:16 - [53] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: Jack Miton wrote: I'm not really sure why it needs to keep being said but wspace is NOT nullsec. I miss you. I can confirm. She does very much!
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 2578	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:35:07 - [54] - Quote Or move into a C3 with K346, C2 with N062/E545 or R474/E545, or C1 with Z060. The Man can't hold your static closed on you! Fight the system! Oh, wait, C5 krab isk buckets too tempting. Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA ~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 48145	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:49:14 - [55] - Quote Winthorp wrote: I am going to go against the grain here with this one and while i realise my opinion means ** all and is usually frowned upon but just like i always do i am going to give it anyway. So for far too long people have lived in the gravy train of WH ISK and filled their time with the endless null roams. So OP are the limitless amounts of null connections that you can very literally with a roll or two cherry pick the null region you want to target, and groups literally do do this. This is definitely going to close the gaps on noobs spreadsheet that doesn't have a filter for WH space and k-space kills. People saying that their content and fun is now gone should realise that WH space should have been a better source of your content/fun. I do think though that people have always gone to null roaming as one of there first options of things to do because of lack of ways to create content in wh space though. I am not saying people shouldn't roam null at all, it is a great option and i am only saying what we had was far to OP. I think the only downside to this is honestly the lack of options it will have for people in WH space to move caps around combined with jump changes. That's well said. Likewise I always felt null is a good option to have. Though it interests me very little personally. Forcing people to do more in wormholes is great though. Nothing worse than logging in and finding the first thing people want to do is a ***** null roam, or start moaning because you brought a T3 to a wormhole fight. That's a sad shift in culture when you see people getting used to that cheap, disposable mindset from null roaming and transferring it to wormhole life. Nullsec corps are that way, guys -> Go on, you know you really want to. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:50:09 - [56] - Quote Winthorp wrote: This is definitely going to close the gaps on noobs spreadsheet that doesn't have a filter for WH space and k-space kills. People saying that their content and fun is now gone should realise that WH space should have been a better source of your content/fun. you are trying to argument that removed content is somehow good for the game. People didnt roam null because WH space was full of content, they roamed null in lack of it.
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 48145	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:56:58 - [57] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: Winthorp wrote: This is definitely going to close the gaps on noobs spreadsheet that doesn't have a filter for WH space and k-space kills. People saying that their content and fun is now gone should realise that WH space should have been a better source of your content/fun. you are trying to argument that removed content is somehow good for the game. People didnt roam null because WH space was full of content, they roamed null in lack of it. I disagree. It's not removing anything, it's merely forcing a slight shift in focus. People roam null because it's easier to find a cheap fight, and maybe the occasional cap gank, than it often can be in wormholes. Quick, easy and cheap thrills is why people roam null. And the minute that fleet left w-space to roam null it just removed even more content from w-space. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Winthorp 3559	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:01:18 - [58] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: And the minute that fleet left w-space to roam null it just removed even more content from w-space. Couldn't have worded this any better. I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's". Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
Axloth Okiah Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 737	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:09:11 - [59] - Quote While the removal of handy NS access might (ideally) lead to certain refocus back to WH brawls, I'm afraid it is much more likely to lead to even less WH content, as groups which deliberately focus on null and use their WH as a mobile base just pack up and leave (to null or thera, probably; leaving a farming crew behind, maybe). So up til now, you could fight them, because they would take wh fight if they could (they just wouldnt spend much effort looking for it). After the change, its quite possible they wont be there at all. I think that it is quite naive to hope, that making wspace living less fun and less convenient will lead to increase in content for those living there. SSC Brokering Service
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:09:12 - [60] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: I disagree. It's not removing anything, it's merely forcing a slight shift in focus. it is removed pvp. For null entities WH highway was a neat way to get across null for content for example. Same for WH entities were null exits a way to find content. By removing these connections there wont be magically more content in WH space, quite the contrary - WH space will become even more of desert empty space due to removed content and more complicated logistics (null-C5 was a way to bring in caps into WH, just to tell one alrady severely handicapped by Phoebe). Erica Dusette wrote: People roam null because it's easier to find a cheap fight, and maybe the occasional cap gank, than it often can be in wormholes can be, null space was a chunk of additional stuff accessible from WH on top of its own WH content, which is gone. Erica Dusette wrote: . Quick, easy and cheap thrills is why people roam null. so. Whats wrong with it? If you take people cheap and easy thrills, why is it good? Erica Dusette wrote: And the minute that fleet left w-space to roam null it just removed even more content from w-space. maybe WH duders are tired of set up and pointless arranged WH fights for years already. I always wondered whats the attraction of consensual wh pvp.



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