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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Axloth Okiah Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 728	Posted - 2015.07.15 10:10:56 - [1] - Quote I'm curious whether the horrific situation I'm seeing in C5 space is just me being biased or not. So please post here what you see in your chains, how many C5s, C6s, how many nulls, what state, do they last, do they close in your face, etc. How **** we really are? we live in c5/c5 and currently have 8 C5s, 2 C6s and one null... Dont kid yourself, noone will read this, nothing will get reverted, but it would be nice to have a bigger picture and a representative sample of the pit of ** we got thrown into (again). SSC Brokering Service
corbexx GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1375	Posted - 2015.07.15 10:25:35 - [2] - Quote Axloth Okiah wrote: I'm curious whether the horrific situation I'm seeing in C5 space is just me being biased or not. So please post here what you see in your chains, how many C5s, C6s, how many nulls, what state, do they last, do they close in your face, etc. How **** we really are? we live in c5/c5 and currently have 8 C5s, 2 C6s and one null... Dont kid yourself, noone will read this, nothing will get reverted, but it would be nice to have a bigger picture and a representative sample of the pit of ** we got thrown into (again). I read it. I've spoken to a few c5 groups and asked if they could record the number of c5's and incoming and out going nulls but here is a handy space to put it. I've also spoke to Daimian mercer about if he can get some data from trip wire. Corbexx for CSM X - Wormholes still deserve better
Artemis Panala School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.07.15 10:56:19 - [3] - Quote The 16 hour thing is a PITA, we have a static null and the lifecycle is irritating between timezones. At 24 hours, getting a nice system/location it was good to run intel for the other TZ from EUTZ, not the hole lifetimes are much shorter it makes this a lot harder. I realise we can rage roll, but 24 hours was a good number for early EUTZ to do the legwork for west coasters an still leave enough time for fun when we found a good linkage. Wish the statics hadn't been altered :S
Bleedingthrough Project AIice 171	Posted - 2015.07.15 11:10:00 - [4] - Quote Yesterdays chain: 7 C5s in total, 1 Null Todays b4 DT chain was your chain. :-) This is by no means statisticaly significant but it surely feels different. C2s with a null statics feel so appealing again. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5305080#post5305080
Callista Spada Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light 9	Posted - 2015.07.15 11:27:44 - [5] - Quote Probably a tad too early to jump to conclusions. One day worth of testing can't produce a pattern and all deductions made are quite random. Especially the K162s that are opened from NS/LS are closed with higher probability due to people interrupting their normal routines with the new sov and all.
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1037	Posted - 2015.07.15 12:33:36 - [6] - Quote confirm WH space being fcked. almost no chains left.
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 2572	Posted - 2015.07.15 12:39:52 - [7] - Quote We c4 people deal with 16 hour lifetimes quite fine - and that's our static wormholes, not random holes to k-space. Really, transients could have 8 hour lifetimes and it would be fine - if it goes EOL, you just roll your actual static and re-roll the dice. i don't see the lifetime being an issue - if it is an issue, you are holding onto your chain too much to make use of it. I can't comment on C5 space much, but we notice no difference in nullsec density thus far. it's a shame, I really wanted to make use of that new website to go harass random sov timers throughout space. Looks like we cannot. Guess that only people with authenticated Blue Donut Certified Nullsec membership Cards can attend! Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA ~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Bleedingthrough Project AIice 173	Posted - 2015.07.15 13:05:30 - [8] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: confirm WH space being fcked. almost no chains left, ccp cut them by like 90%, so far for "a small decrease of spawn rate". Yea, life-time and decreased rate stack multiplicative when it comes to how many of these holes you encounter, e.g. 16/24 * (1-"small reduction"). @Trinket Quote: Small decreases in the spawn rate of random Null -> C5 and C5 -> Null connections. This change does not affect static connections. A decrease in the lifetime of Nullsec WH connections to 16 hours (most were previously 24 hours). Maybe this has something to do with C4 space only getting frig WHs to null and it not being C5 space. :-) just trolling https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5305080#post5305080
Methea Selenis Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 0	Posted - 2015.07.15 13:13:57 - [9] - Quote My understanding is that the N432 (starting form null and leading to C5 space) worms were either removed or drastically nerfed. I had one every two systems usually in Stain and today I did not find any in three hours roaming. This hurts me a lot because I used to use short worm chains to store loot in HS. I believe it is possible to find some middle ground between the yesterday's profusion and what I exeperienced today.
Jonn Duune Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve WormHole Occupation and Resource Exploitation 9	Posted - 2015.07.15 13:26:28 - [10] - Quote corbexx wrote: Axloth Okiah wrote: I'm curious whether the horrific situation I'm seeing in C5 space is just me being biased or not. So please post here what you see in your chains, how many C5s, C6s, how many nulls, what state, do they last, do they close in your face, etc. How **** we really are? we live in c5/c5 and currently have 8 C5s, 2 C6s and one null... Dont kid yourself, noone will read this, nothing will get reverted, but it would be nice to have a bigger picture and a representative sample of the pit of ** we got thrown into (again). I read it. I've spoken to a few c5 groups and asked if they could record the number of c5's and incoming and out going nulls but here is a handy space to put it. I've also spoke to Daimian mercer about if he can get some data from trip wire. Our null sec connections seemed fewer (typically in a chain of 5 wormholes deep, we'll have between 5-10 null secs, but recently that number has seemed to drop to around 2 nullsecs)

Kynric Sky Fighters 322	Posted - 2015.07.15 13:43:47 - [11] - Quote Bleedingthrough wrote: Yea, life-time and decreased rate stack multiplicative when it comes to how many of these holes you encounter, e.g. 16/24 * (1-"small reduction"). Operationally its a bit worse than that as wormholes found in the EOL will likely not be used for roams. This is further increased if fewer people, are in space scanning/opening the holes from the null side which recent pilot counts would tend to suggest. Generally it takes 3-4 null wormhole finds to find one useful one, as such it is a rather large loss of content. Yesterday my home had two null holes in our chain. One connection was from a c3 with a static null the other from a low. We had no c5 to null connections. Small sample size but it made for a dull evening with an early logoff.
Bleedingthrough Project AIice 173	Posted - 2015.07.15 13:48:35 - [12] - Quote Kynric wrote: Bleedingthrough wrote: Yea, life-time and decreased rate stack multiplicative when it comes to how many of these holes you encounter, e.g. 16/24 * (1-"small reduction"). Operationally its a bit worse than that as wormholes found in the EOL will likely not be used for roams. This is further increased if fewer people, are in space scanning/opening the holes from the null side which recent pilot counts would tend to suggest. Generally it takes 3-4 null wormhole finds to find one useful one, as such it is a rather large loss of content. Yesterday my home had two null holes in our chain. One connection was from a c3 with a static null the other from a low. We had no c5 to null connections. Small sample size but it made for a dull evening with an early logoff. Good point, will keep track of the number of EoLs. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5305080#post5305080
Hidden Fremen Lazerhawks 624	Posted - 2015.07.15 13:49:59 - [13] - Quote There goes moving capitals from wormhole to wormhole via null...
Bronya Boga Isogen 5 575	Posted - 2015.07.15 16:09:59 - [14] - Quote This morning we had 8 c5s in chain and no nulls :(
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1225	Posted - 2015.07.15 16:23:34 - [15] - Quote if you want to go to null so bad just move there~ If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1645	Posted - 2015.07.15 16:43:30 - [16] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: if you want to go to null so bad just move there~ If you want to rat without the risk, just move to highsec
CivilWars Rolled Out Triumvirate. 295	Posted - 2015.07.15 16:54:43 - [17] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: if you want to go to null so bad just move there~ M8, I need people to stroke my e-peen about racking up kills vs afktars and miners while colonizing "dangerous space". Hidden Fremen liked your forum post: Jack Miton liked your forum post:
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1225	Posted - 2015.07.15 17:04:53 - [18] - Quote afkalt wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: if you want to go to null so bad just move there~ If you want to rat without the risk, just move to highsec >ratting in tyool2015 If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Zekora Rally Negative Density Whatever. 22	Posted - 2015.07.15 17:26:21 - [19] - Quote I can confirm that the spawn rate of null holes has been reduced dramatically whether it is K162 or N432. Currently, we run into a null every 5 holes or so we scan compared to getting drowned in null connections before the patch.
Jack Hayson Atztech Inc. Ixtab. 249	Posted - 2015.07.15 17:38:40 - [20] - Quote corbexx wrote: I've also spoke to Daimian mercer about if he can get some data from trip wire. From our mapping tool... Before 2015-07-07 DT: ratio of NS to C5+C6 is 52.8% (sample size: several thousand systems) After 2015-07-07 DT: ratio down to 38.9% (sample size: a couple hundred systems) Not sure if they changed something this Tuesday. Ratio yesterday was 11%, but the sample size is way too small to draw any conclusions from that. Note: I don't log the type of the connection, meaning static null holes and the occasional null-null are included in this data set.

Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1037	Posted - 2015.07.15 17:45:11 - [21] - Quote reduction from 52% to 38% absolutely doesnt reflect my experience. While I was finding 10 C5 entrys pre-patch, I even struggle to find 1 post-patch.
Methea Selenis Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1	Posted - 2015.07.15 18:15:42 - [22] - Quote Jack Hayson wrote: Not sure if they changed something this Tuesday. Ratio yesterday was 11%, but the sample size is way too small to draw any conclusions from that. Note: I don't log the type of the connection, meaning static null holes and the occasional null-null are included in this data set. I believe the change happened just yesterday and not on 7th. 11% seems even to high compared with my experience.
Arden Bastilla Defiance LLC Praetorian Directorate 2	Posted - 2015.07.15 19:17:43 - [23] - Quote I know in our C5 w/C4 we regularly had 2-4 NS every day. Yesterday when I logged we had 0 null, 4 C4 (one was static), C5, and LS for our current connections. It sounds like their algorithms for spawning are a bit skewed now compared to before. I imaged a C5/C6 should have anywhere from 1-3 additional WH connections on avg not including the static(s). I wouldn't be surprised to see 1 NS every day on avg.
Dark Armata Exit-Strategy Exit Strategy.. 153	Posted - 2015.07.15 19:38:50 - [24] - Quote Previously during rage roll/scanning you basically couldn't find a C5 without one or more null sec connections. I will get some numbers from our next session, but from the couple sessions so far it was about 1 null per 5 (with most of those being EOL). W-Space IS Best Space
Sleepaz Den Artificial Memories 5	Posted - 2015.07.15 19:40:15 - [25] - Quote I'm wondering how the change was executed. If they did some magic to adjust all current connections to new standards, wouldn't wonder if the K162s got affected somewhat somehow aswell, like closing/resetting timer to 16h and most exits are down (again). Server changes or whatever and suddenly your outgoing has not begun its cycle sounds famliar.
Jack Hayson Atztech Inc. Ixtab. 249	Posted - 2015.07.15 19:43:38 - [26] - Quote f*ck I'm bored... (orange line is 7 day rolling average) random stuff is random
Necharo Rackham The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 56	Posted - 2015.07.15 20:56:46 - [27] - Quote Confirmed that we have also been seeing similar effects re a paucity of nulls. Axloth Okiah wrote: Dont kid yourself, noone will read this, nothing will get reverted, but it would be nice to have a bigger picture and a representative sample of the pit of **** we got thrown into (again). So much for gradual change and 'keeping an eye on statistics'.
Daimian Mercer Tripwire Mapper 145	Posted - 2015.07.15 20:58:07 - [28] - Quote Here is a very quick data dump from Tripwire: http://puu.sh/j0vVU/b98997a5fd.png This is the # of signatures added with one end being one of the following: 'K346','K329','E545','C248','S199','V283','Z142','Z060' Creator of Tripwire mapping tool - EVE-O thread Twitter \| [email protected]
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1038	Posted - 2015.07.15 21:08:03 - [29] - Quote look specifically after Z142 and N432.
Daimian Mercer Tripwire Mapper 147	Posted - 2015.07.15 21:14:17 - [30] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: look specifically after Z142 and N432. much more drastic of a difference: http://puu.sh/j0xfd/a5cbf68004.png Creator of Tripwire mapping tool - EVE-O thread Twitter \| [email protected]

Ilaister Isogen 5 203	Posted - 2015.07.15 21:14:34 - [31] - Quote These datasets only picking up 'C5 w/any null' or you pulling 'C5a w/null 1-2-3' 'C5b w/null 1' etc? Caldera, the K162s are relavant too, no? ~40% seems surprisingly high.
Daimian Mercer Tripwire Mapper 147	Posted - 2015.07.15 21:18:45 - [32] - Quote Ilaister wrote: These datasets only picking up 'C5 w/any null' or you pulling 'C5a w/null 1-2-3' 'C5b w/null 1' etc? Caldera, the K162s are relavant too, no? ~40% seems surprisingly high. I am pulling them by wormhole type and only when added. So it is not counting signatures that were later updated with one of those wormhole types. Also isn't counting signatures that have a "Leads To" of "Null-Sec" and requires the wormhole type to be one of those types mentioned. I can pull more complex data if requested - just takes me longer to write the queries Creator of Tripwire mapping tool - EVE-O thread Twitter \| [email protected]
Zappity WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 2371	Posted - 2015.07.15 21:41:11 - [33] - Quote It would be good to see more thorough data. The numbers aren't convincing. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Jack Hayson Atztech Inc. Ixtab. 249	Posted - 2015.07.15 21:42:25 - [34] - Quote Weird. Is that the data of all tripwire users combined? Those numbers appear to be extremely low... or is that because most people update the type later? (tbh. I've never really used Tripwire, so no clue how that part works) As a side note: just the number of null connections going down doesn't say very much without the number of corresponding (high class) wormhole systems. With such a small number of holes it could be just one active scanner going on vacation.
Daimian Mercer Tripwire Mapper 147	Posted - 2015.07.15 21:46:53 - [35] - Quote Jack Hayson wrote: Weird. Is that the data of all tripwire users combined? Those numbers appear to be extremely low... or is that because most people update the type later? (tbh. I've never really used Tripwire, so no clue how that part works) As a side note: just the number of null connections going down doesn't say very much without the number of corresponding (high class) wormhole systems. With such a small number of holes it could be just one active scanner going on vacation. It is for all Tripwire users. I can get more specific data - just come up with what you want me to query and I'll get you guys the stats. Creator of Tripwire mapping tool - EVE-O thread Twitter \| [email protected]
Zappity WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 2371	Posted - 2015.07.15 22:05:02 - [36] - Quote Ideally just Z142, V283, C248, K329 because the statics arenGÇÖt relevant. If possible include the sigs which were updated later GÇô the numbers shown above are too low to be meaningful and is probably due to the majority not being correctly entered up front. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Daimian Mercer Tripwire Mapper 147	Posted - 2015.07.15 22:19:07 - [37] - Quote Zappity wrote: Ideally just Z142, V283, C248, K329 because the statics arenGÇÖt relevant. If possible include the sigs which were updated later GÇô the numbers shown above are too low to be meaningful and is probably due to the majority not being correctly entered up front. As requested: http://puu.sh/j0BEp/e5c1618191.png includes sigs that were eventually updated to one of those wormhole types Creator of Tripwire mapping tool - EVE-O thread Twitter \| [email protected]
Methea Selenis Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1	Posted - 2015.07.15 22:27:21 - [38] - Quote Wow, that's really low. Probably we will notice something significant with high enough numbers if we could just see the number of worms with at least one null sec side entered per day. NS to C5 was pretty much the two-third of it. Can you group by space type or only by worm type? By the way I'm dreaming of a feature for tripwire : be able to enter just a space type/class for destination (HS, LS, NS, WHC1-3, WHC4-5, WHC6) without name. It would be even more shiny with a color code like on the eve-scout site.
calaretu Honestly We didnt know Unsettled. 361	Posted - 2015.07.15 22:30:10 - [39] - Quote Surely this is not related to nullseccers not scanning down wormholes as their day to day life now is exactly the same as it was before patch.... .... .... ..... ... ... ~Bringer of happiness http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/ .ORLY is recruiting
Daimian Mercer Tripwire Mapper 149	Posted - 2015.07.15 22:32:10 - [40] - Quote Methea Selenis wrote: Wow, that's really low. Probably we will notice something significant with high enough numbers if we could just see the number of worms with at least one null sec side entered per day. NS to C5 was pretty much the two-third of it. Can you group by space type or only by worm type? By the way I'm dreaming of a feature for tripwire : be able to enter just a space type/class for destination (HS, LS, NS, WHC1-3, WHC4-5, WHC6) without name. It would be even more shiny with a color code like on the eve-scout site. I could match the entered wormhole system to the class but that assumes everyone in the previous data pull also updated the signature with a legit system also otherwise you would lose data. I like your suggestions - something like that is already in the works.. just need to find time to finish it all up. Creator of Tripwire mapping tool - EVE-O thread Twitter \| [email protected]

Methea Selenis Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1	Posted - 2015.07.15 22:36:18 - [41] - Quote Daimian Mercer wrote: Zappity wrote: Ideally just Z142, V283, C248, K329 because the statics arenGÇÖt relevant. If possible include the sigs which were updated later GÇô the numbers shown above are too low to be meaningful and is probably due to the majority not being correctly entered up front. As requested: http://puu.sh/j0BEp/e5c1618191.png includes sigs that were eventually updated to one of those wormhole types So if I interpret these results correctly this means that Wormholes to null initiated from Worm Space are pretty much untouched while the ones initiated from Null sec, mainly N432 (see your results a few posts above) were severely nerfed. Am I correct?
Zappity WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 2371	Posted - 2015.07.15 22:40:07 - [42] - Quote Daimian Mercer wrote: Zappity wrote: Ideally just Z142, V283, C248, K329 because the statics arenGÇÖt relevant. If possible include the sigs which were updated later GÇô the numbers shown above are too low to be meaningful and is probably due to the majority not being correctly entered up front. As requested: http://puu.sh/j0BEp/e5c1618191.png includes sigs that were eventually updated to one of those wormhole types Very good, thanks. Chart: http://i.imgur.com/4RGrhTm.png Changeover was 7/7. There was a sharp drop on 9th and 10th. Lowest data point was 10th but then the highest data point was the 13th. Need more time to determine frequency change because there is too much disturbance from behaviour-driven factors (e.g. sov change and perhaps null groups stopped looking for holes after the patch. I reckon the J-space facing holes (i.e. not null-null) have dropped about 10% but that's just a guess. Null-null were nerfed hard. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.15 22:48:21 - [43] - Quote Ilaister wrote: These datasets only picking up 'C5 w/any null' or you pulling 'C5a w/null 1-2-3' 'C5b w/null 1' etc? Caldera, the K162s are relavant too, no? ~40% seems surprisingly high. K162 are generics, so they wont be in any statistic. N432 and Z142 were the 2 meaningful WH types C5-null, dunno about the others like V283 and so on. The sheer mass of chains were going via the first 2 named, which are hardly spawning since nerf. Cant remember any of the others being relevant for null-WH-null chains, maybe too rare or spawning from different classes of WH, in any case N432 and Z142 were the keystones of the wormhole highway.
Justin Cody Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 296	Posted - 2015.07.16 00:55:54 - [44] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: Ilaister wrote: These datasets only picking up 'C5 w/any null' or you pulling 'C5a w/null 1-2-3' 'C5b w/null 1' etc? Caldera, the K162s are relavant too, no? ~40% seems surprisingly high. K162 are generics, so they wont be in any statistic. N432 and Z142 were the 2 meaningful WH types C5-null, dunno about the others like V283 and so on. The sheer mass of chains were going via the first 2 named, which are hardly spawning since nerf. Cant remember any of the others being relevant for null-WH-null chains, maybe too rare or spawning from different classes of WH, in any case N432 and Z142 were the keystones of the wormhole highway. K162 are not generic. K162 is the wormhole endpoint That means that the K162 can be any of the following (on the other side for C5/6 Wh's) N432/Z142 Z132's are wandering C5 > Null Statics N432 is the reverse where the origin point is in K-Space Null. C248 were C6 > Null 48hr WH's. Low Sec > Null = S199 and those were also nerfed Here's a CHART Now you don't have to be completely ignorant - although I hear it is rather blissful. The nerf has destroyed C5/C6 space for those that like to roam nulls. Its great for Krabs though.
GizzyBoy Aperture Harmonics K162 160	Posted - 2015.07.16 03:20:23 - [45] - Quote c6 space never had many nulls, often we would look for a c5 chain to find a null, I guess you guys got spoiled a bit to much with to much null availability.
Barrogh Habalu Forever Winter Absolute Zero. 925	Posted - 2015.07.16 06:29:31 - [46] - Quote GizzyBoy wrote: c6 space never had many nulls, often we would look for a c5 chain to find a null, I guess you guys got spoiled a bit to much with to much null availability. How much is too much though? By the same token you can say that C6ers were "too spoiled with just having to look for C5 chain to go to null", connectivity of which got nerfed. Anyway, this again comes down to what I think was the issue with EVE a few years ago and maybe still is: places that are good for finding PvP are bad ones to gather resources for said PvP, forcing people to alt or at least move a lot. While it sounds kinda natural, high class WHs were in unique position of providing both opportunities, being almost perfect for both (given right system) at a price of providing lesser ability to influence stuff like political map and most market segments (for those who care about such things). I'm not really convinced that making sure every nook of space is flawed to live in is the best sounding idea.
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 06:51:21 - [47] - Quote Justin Cody wrote: K162 are not generic. K162 is the wormhole endpoint whatever you name it. What I'm saying is that K162 doesnt say anything about the actual WH type. I'm not a wormhole king but these can be anything, why I said "generic". Justin Cody wrote: Now you don't have to be completely ignorant - although I hear it is rather blissful. The nerf has destroyed C5/C6 space for those that like to roam nulls. Its great for Krabs though. ignorant? What are you actually trying to argue? I said N432/Z142 were the major 2 types for connecting null though meaningful chains and that got ****** up. S199 were good too but too rare to be of any relevance.
Jack Miton WeebleCORP 4570	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:01:41 - [48] - Quote Holy mother of non issues batman! Even if you had to scan out to HS every time and head to the nearest NS from there, it would STILL be easy to get to NS from any WH class. On the other hand, if you miss NS so much, maybe it's time to move there? (Or at least Thera which is actually exactly what you want.) The sense of entitlement from large WH groups is nauseating. Need to be completely safe in our farming. No PVP allowed in C6s, that's where we farm. Much have zero effort access to NS at all times, preferably just spawn the WHs right next to the ratting Nyxs kthnx... I'm not really sure why it needs to keep being said but wspace is NOT nullsec. Maybe if you want full time access to nullsec, you should think about how to do that, rather than just b!tch and moan about it on the forums, when you KNOW CCP will not do anything to appease you. Trust me, they really wont! no matter how hard you cry about it. There is no Bob. Stuck In Here With Me: http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe: http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:08:11 - [49] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: Holy mother of non issues batman! if it wasnt an issue, we and many others werent complaining. Jack Miton wrote: Even if you had to scan out to HS every time and head to the nearest NS from there, it would STILL be easy to get to NS from any WH class. this thread is not about going into nullsec from high sec. Jack Miton wrote: On the other hand, if you miss NS so much, maybe it's time to move there? (Or at least Thera which is actually exactly what you want.) this thread is about wrecked WH connections, you have issues to comprehend? Jack Miton wrote: The sense of entitlement from large WH groups is nauseating. Need to be completely safe in our farming. No PVP allowed in C6s, that's where we farm. Much have zero effort access to NS at all times, preferably just spawn the WHs right next to the ratting Nyxs kthnx... entitlement? Just pointing out the bad consequences of patch. Right now, deep null bears are completely safe in farming, since WH were a nice way to get to them for ganking. On the other hand, null-C5 chains were a nice way to get around nullsec, once you put enough effort in probing, this was a second valid WH use which got wrecked. Jack Miton wrote: I'm not really sure why it needs to keep being said but wspace is NOT nullsec. Maybe if you want full time access to nullsec, you should think about how to do that, rather than just b!tch and moan about it on the forums, when you KNOW CCP will not do anything to appease you. Trust me, they really wont! no matter how hard you cry about it. what is your point of counter-whining? You whining about other people's whining wont change anything nor does it serve a purpose.
Zappity WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 2371	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:11:41 - [50] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: On the other hand, if you miss NS so much, maybe it's time to move there? (Or at least Thera which is actually exactly what you want.) Yeah, have to admit that the first thing I did was check eve-scout.com. Still half a dozen null connections (maybe they are static - I forget?) which is great. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.

Erica Dusette Isogen 5 48141	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:23:15 - [51] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: I'm not really sure why it needs to keep being said but wspace is NOT nullsec. I miss you. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Winthorp 3554	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:25:47 - [52] - Quote I am going to go against the grain here with this one and while i realise my opinion means **** all and is usually frowned upon but just like i always do i am going to give it anyway. So for far too long people have lived in the gravy train of WH ISK and filled their time with the endless null roams. So OP are the limitless amounts of null connections that you can very literally with a roll or two cherry pick the null region you want to target, and groups literally do do this. This is definitely going to close the gaps on noobs spreadsheet that doesn't have a filter for WH space and k-space kills. People saying that their content and fun is now gone should realise that WH space should have been a better source of your content/fun. I do think though that people have always gone to null roaming as one of there first options of things to do because of lack of ways to create content in wh space though. I am not saying people shouldn't roam null at all, it is a great option and i am only saying what we had was far to OP. I think the only downside to this is honestly the lack of options it will have for people in WH space to move caps around combined with jump changes. I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's". Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
Mikha'el Airuta Sigin-tarag Anoikis Ronin 1379	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:33:16 - [53] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: Jack Miton wrote: I'm not really sure why it needs to keep being said but wspace is NOT nullsec. I miss you. I can confirm. She does very much!
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 2578	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:35:07 - [54] - Quote Or move into a C3 with K346, C2 with N062/E545 or R474/E545, or C1 with Z060. The Man can't hold your static closed on you! Fight the system! Oh, wait, C5 krab isk buckets too tempting. Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA ~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 48145	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:49:14 - [55] - Quote Winthorp wrote: I am going to go against the grain here with this one and while i realise my opinion means ** all and is usually frowned upon but just like i always do i am going to give it anyway. So for far too long people have lived in the gravy train of WH ISK and filled their time with the endless null roams. So OP are the limitless amounts of null connections that you can very literally with a roll or two cherry pick the null region you want to target, and groups literally do do this. This is definitely going to close the gaps on noobs spreadsheet that doesn't have a filter for WH space and k-space kills. People saying that their content and fun is now gone should realise that WH space should have been a better source of your content/fun. I do think though that people have always gone to null roaming as one of there first options of things to do because of lack of ways to create content in wh space though. I am not saying people shouldn't roam null at all, it is a great option and i am only saying what we had was far to OP. I think the only downside to this is honestly the lack of options it will have for people in WH space to move caps around combined with jump changes. That's well said. Likewise I always felt null is a good option to have. Though it interests me very little personally. Forcing people to do more in wormholes is great though. Nothing worse than logging in and finding the first thing people want to do is a ***** null roam, or start moaning because you brought a T3 to a wormhole fight. That's a sad shift in culture when you see people getting used to that cheap, disposable mindset from null roaming and transferring it to wormhole life. Nullsec corps are that way, guys -> Go on, you know you really want to. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:50:09 - [56] - Quote Winthorp wrote: This is definitely going to close the gaps on noobs spreadsheet that doesn't have a filter for WH space and k-space kills. People saying that their content and fun is now gone should realise that WH space should have been a better source of your content/fun. you are trying to argument that removed content is somehow good for the game. People didnt roam null because WH space was full of content, they roamed null in lack of it.
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 48145	Posted - 2015.07.16 07:56:58 - [57] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: Winthorp wrote: This is definitely going to close the gaps on noobs spreadsheet that doesn't have a filter for WH space and k-space kills. People saying that their content and fun is now gone should realise that WH space should have been a better source of your content/fun. you are trying to argument that removed content is somehow good for the game. People didnt roam null because WH space was full of content, they roamed null in lack of it. I disagree. It's not removing anything, it's merely forcing a slight shift in focus. People roam null because it's easier to find a cheap fight, and maybe the occasional cap gank, than it often can be in wormholes. Quick, easy and cheap thrills is why people roam null. And the minute that fleet left w-space to roam null it just removed even more content from w-space. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Winthorp 3559	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:01:18 - [58] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: And the minute that fleet left w-space to roam null it just removed even more content from w-space. Couldn't have worded this any better. I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's". Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
Axloth Okiah Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 737	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:09:11 - [59] - Quote While the removal of handy NS access might (ideally) lead to certain refocus back to WH brawls, I'm afraid it is much more likely to lead to even less WH content, as groups which deliberately focus on null and use their WH as a mobile base just pack up and leave (to null or thera, probably; leaving a farming crew behind, maybe). So up til now, you could fight them, because they would take wh fight if they could (they just wouldnt spend much effort looking for it). After the change, its quite possible they wont be there at all. I think that it is quite naive to hope, that making wspace living less fun and less convenient will lead to increase in content for those living there. SSC Brokering Service
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:09:12 - [60] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: I disagree. It's not removing anything, it's merely forcing a slight shift in focus. it is removed pvp. For null entities WH highway was a neat way to get across null for content for example. Same for WH entities were null exits a way to find content. By removing these connections there wont be magically more content in WH space, quite the contrary - WH space will become even more of desert empty space due to removed content and more complicated logistics (null-C5 was a way to bring in caps into WH, just to tell one alrady severely handicapped by Phoebe). Erica Dusette wrote: People roam null because it's easier to find a cheap fight, and maybe the occasional cap gank, than it often can be in wormholes can be, null space was a chunk of additional stuff accessible from WH on top of its own WH content, which is gone. Erica Dusette wrote: . Quick, easy and cheap thrills is why people roam null. so. Whats wrong with it? If you take people cheap and easy thrills, why is it good? Erica Dusette wrote: And the minute that fleet left w-space to roam null it just removed even more content from w-space. maybe WH duders are tired of set up and pointless arranged WH fights for years already. I always wondered whats the attraction of consensual wh pvp.

Winthorp 3563	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:28:14 - [61] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: Winthorp wrote: This is definitely going to close the gaps on noobs spreadsheet that doesn't have a filter for WH space and k-space kills. People saying that their content and fun is now gone should realise that WH space should have been a better source of your content/fun. you are trying to argument that removed content is somehow good for the game. People didnt roam null because WH space was full of content, they roamed null in lack of it. I don't normally reply to NPC alts, check my sig even. But for you to quote that paragraph and edit out the part that had me saying that it is this way due to a lack of ways to create content in wh space and agree with your current gripe is a little bit stupid on your part. I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's". Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
Winthorp 3563	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:31:24 - [62] - Quote Axloth Okiah wrote: While the removal of handy NS access might (ideally) lead to certain refocus back to WH brawls, I'm afraid it is much more likely to lead to even less WH content, as groups which deliberately focus on null and use their WH as a mobile base just pack up and leave (to null or thera, probably; leaving a farming crew behind, maybe). So up til now, you could fight them, because they would take wh fight if they could (they just wouldnt spend much effort looking for it). After the change, its quite possible they wont be there at all. I think that it is quite naive to hope, that making wspace living less fun and less convenient will lead to increase in content for those living there. But those people that do roam null constantly are well "roaming null constantly". You can't fight what isn't there in their chain, scanning the chain further or rolling their chain... I agree some people might leave because they can't have their insta fun and are too lazy to scan/roll/seige/loggoff/invade/camp for it but i am not unhappy about that honestly. I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's". Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 48151	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:34:07 - [63] - Quote @ Robert Caldera; It's not removing PVP at all. If you really still want to go play in null you still can. It just means you might have to go to a little more effort to scan a null exit, instead of having four of them spawn in your home system every day or something silly. Might mean you actually have to jump a hole or two to the nearest null exit. No big deal really, right? But it's true, I'm all for forcing people to look inward to w-space for content if they live there. If they don't like that, or are having serious trouble finding wormhole content, then it's kinda obvious they're living in the wrong kind of space to begin with. There's nothing wrong with cheap and easy, but when it becomes the mainstay for a wormhole corp's content, again they're living in the wrong space. Robert Caldera wrote: Erica Dusette wrote: And the minute that fleet left w-space to roam null it just removed even more content from w-space. maybe WH duders are tired of set up and pointless arranged WH fights for years already. For me, I always wondered whats the attraction of consensual wh pvp. Really not sure how your comment has any relation to mine. But if you're a wormholer then you certainly sound like the most disaffected one I've met in a while. I recommend lowsec for you. All the non-consensual, cheap fights you like and logistics is a breeze. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:44:29 - [64] - Quote Winthorp wrote: I don't normally reply to NPC alts, check my sig even. NPC? Winthorp wrote: I agree some people might leave because they can't have their insta fun and are too lazy to scan/roll/seige/loggoff/invade/camp for it but i am not unhappy about that honestly. you are not unhappy about people leaving? Interesting. In times with constantly dropping online numbers I thought people leaving was the last thing you would welcome. Erica Dusette wrote: It's not removing PVP at all. If you really still want to go play in null you still can. I actually just showed you how it removed pvp. null -> WH -> null was source of content = gone. WH -> null was source of content = gone. Sure, you might shift onto something else and try to compensate in a more or less successful way but for the moment being its chunk of content which is gone. Erica Dusette wrote: It just means you might have to go to a little more effort to scan a null exit, instead of having four of them spawn in your home system every day or something silly. Might mean you actually have to jump a hole or two to the nearest null exit. No big deal really, right? like I said, forcing people into effort wont work. Forcing people into wasting hours over hours for 1 worthless null connection will work even less, thats the post aegis status quo.
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:45:58 - [65] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: But it's true, I'm all for forcing people to look inward to w-space for content if they live there. If they don't like that, or are having serious trouble finding wormhole content, then it's kinda obvious they're living in the wrong kind of space to begin with. you might wish they would look more inward w-space. I'm not that naive and think they will rather leave, which is not a good thing. Erica Dusette wrote: There's nothing wrong with cheap and easy, but when it becomes the mainstay for a wormhole corp's content, again they're living in the wrong space. They are wrong? I disagree. Getting cheap and easy pvp is good for the game and why people are playing in the first line, who dont want to become a part of null circlejerk. Again, why is removing cheap and easy pvp good?? What is the gain? I dont see any. Erica Dusette wrote: But if you're a wormholer then you certainly sound like the most disaffected one I've met in a while. I recommend lowsec for you. All the non-consensual, cheap fights you like and logistics is a breeze. im not a wormholer, I live in null. Why would you point me towards lowsec? Its a completely different from what is discussed here, stop derailing the thread.
Necharo Rackham The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 56	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:53:43 - [66] - Quote The reason most people started roaming null to start with was simple arithmethic, given the fact that C5 space was largely empty - even before you factor in TZs. Btw, In the current meta - and given w-space and FW farming - the ships aren't all that cheaper (Orthus/Gila vs cheaper T3s). As someone said up thread, the lifetime reduction and spawning mechanics will stack multiplicatively when it comes to finding usable nullsec connections. I can see that after the previous increase in null wormholes C5 space had become too connected - but the answer would have been to reverse that.
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 08:57:00 - [67] - Quote Necharo Rackham wrote: I can see that after the previous increase in null wormholes C5 space had become too connected - but the answer would have been to reverse that. which previous increase of null wormholes in C5? C5 was pretty nicely connected to null for years.
Winthorp 3565	Posted - 2015.07.16 09:15:54 - [68] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: rabble rabble rabble Instead of making stupid points or heavilly edit and qoute people to try and counter everyone's points of view why don't you actually say why you think you are entitled or need to have the level of nullsecs like you once did. I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's". Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 48156	Posted - 2015.07.16 09:21:30 - [69] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: you might wish they would look more inward w-space. I'm not that naive and think they will rather leave, which is not a good thing. What is the gain? The gain is we get less people like you coming here trying to change w-space to suit their own k-space meta. Robert Caldera wrote: Erica Dusette wrote: There's nothing wrong with cheap and easy, but when it becomes the mainstay for a wormhole corp's content, again they're living in the wrong space. They are wrong? I disagree. Getting cheap and easy pvp is good for the game and why people are playing in the first line, who dont want to become a part of null circlejerk. Again, why is removing cheap and easy pvp good?? What is the gain? I dont see any. I didn't say it was. Besides, no potential pvp is being removed anyway. Read again. You're really getting mixed up in my context (or twisting purposely, can't really tell) and I'm guessing English isn't your first language, no offense intended. Take your time and read the wording of my posts a little closer instead of rushing to troll-reply so quickly to everyone. You're becoming too obvious. Robert Caldera wrote: Erica Dusette wrote: But if you're a wormholer then you certainly sound like the most disaffected one I've met in a while. I recommend lowsec for you. All the non-consensual, cheap fights you like and logistics is a breeze. im not a wormholer, I live in null. Why would you point me towards lowsec? Its a completely different from what is discussed here, stop derailing the thread. Someone who is looking for null content certainly isnt interested in lowsec, thats why he isnt there, thats why he is here complaining. The reason why I suggested lowsec is because all the advantages you personally listed for having a ton of null WH exits makes it sound like lowsec would meet all your requirements perfectly. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 09:24:25 - [70] - Quote Winthorp wrote: Instead of making stupid points or heavilly edit and qoute people to try and counter everyone's points of view stupid points? Points become "stupid" at last when they are proven wrong, if at all. Isnt quoting and countering points of view not how a forum/conversation works? Just wondering. Winthorp wrote: why don't you actually say why you think you are entitled or need to have the level of nullsecs like you once did. One of most hilarious things on eve-o is when people accuse someone of feeling entitled to something. How does argueing for/against something equal to being entitled? Just complaining about working parts of the game which CCP ruined for no gain/reason, apart of some whiny ***** abusing his CSM powers and crying to CCP to cather the game for his inability.

Winthorp 3565	Posted - 2015.07.16 09:28:08 - [71] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: Winthorp wrote: Instead of making stupid points or heavilly edit and qoute people to try and counter everyone's points of view stupid points? Points become "stupid" at last when they are proven wrong, if at all. Isnt quoting and countering points of view not how a forum/conversation works? Just wondering. Winthorp wrote: why don't you actually say why you think you are entitled or need to have the level of nullsecs like you once did. One of most hilarious things on eve-o is when people accuse someone of feeling entitled to something. How does argueing for/against something equal to being entitled? Just complaining about working parts of the game which CCP ruined for no gain/reason, apart of some whiny ***** abusing his CSM powers and crying to CCP to cather the game for his inability. Again nothing useful to add about your opinion at all... I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's". Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
Necharo Rackham The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 56	Posted - 2015.07.16 09:31:29 - [72] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: Necharo Rackham wrote: I can see that after the previous increase in null wormholes C5 space had become too connected - but the answer would have been to reverse that. which previous increase of null wormholes in C5? C5 was pretty nicely connected to null for years. Hyperion increased the spawn rate of wormholes originating in w-space [there was also the other slight uptick associated with time based spawning of the k162].
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 09:31:31 - [73] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: The gain is we get less people like you coming here trying to change w-space to suit their own k-space meta. answer the actual question instead of trolling. Erica Dusette wrote: I didn't say it was. Besides, no potential pvp is being removed anyway. Read again. I showed you what parst of pvp were removed. Erica Dusette wrote: The reason why I suggested lowsec is because all the advantages you personally listed for having a ton of null WH exits makes it sound like lowsec would meet all your requirements perfectly. Again, if I lived in lowsec I wouldnt complain. Fact is I am not living in lowsec, nor do I plan to move into lowsec in any foreseeable future.
Axloth Okiah Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 738	Posted - 2015.07.16 09:44:43 - [74] - Quote Winthorp wrote: Axloth Okiah wrote: While the removal of handy NS access might (ideally) lead to certain refocus back to WH brawls, I'm afraid it is much more likely to lead to even less WH content, as groups which deliberately focus on null and use their WH as a mobile base just pack up and leave (to null or thera, probably; leaving a farming crew behind, maybe). So up til now, you could fight them, because they would take wh fight if they could (they just wouldnt spend much effort looking for it). After the change, its quite possible they wont be there at all. I think that it is quite naive to hope, that making wspace living less fun and less convenient will lead to increase in content for those living there. But those people that do roam null constantly are well "roaming null constantly". You can't fight what isn't there in their chain, scanning the chain further or rolling their chain... I agree some people might leave because they can't have their insta fun and are too lazy to scan/roll/seige/loggoff/invade/camp for it but i am not unhappy about that honestly. I have to disagree. Those things arent mutually exclusive. "Roaming in null" doesnt equal "not fighting in wspace". HK, SSC, LH and many other (less blobby) corps roam null constantly in search for targets, yet I dont think you can claim they dont also fight in wspace. If you roll into them, they'll return from null to fight you. None will fight you if you roll into an inactive hole, because they moved out, starved for fights, bored of waiting for days between wh content. I also disagree with the notion that fighting in wspace is somehow inherently superior to fighting in null and more desirable. Big invasions and cap brawls are great, yes. Best of all, we might say. But how often do they happen? Majority of the wspace pvp is ganks. What makes ganking in wspace so much more leet than ganking in null? Why is ganking sleeper-farming dreads good and ganking ratting carriers bad? We have no local, no gates, etc. but its still a gank. SSC Brokering Service
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 48156	Posted - 2015.07.16 09:55:52 - [75] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: Erica Dusette wrote: The gain is we get less people like you coming here trying to change w-space to suit their own k-space meta. answer the actual question instead of trolling. That was actually a serious answer, I wasn't trolling. Less nullseccers having a say in how w-space works the better. Though I already did answer your question. You just have to read back through my posts. Robert Caldera wrote: Erica Dusette wrote: I didn't say it was. Besides, no potential pvp is being removed anyway. Read again. I showed you what parst of pvp were removed. Not really, just a few vague points and kinda abstract comments. Robert Caldera wrote: Again, if I lived in lowsec I wouldnt complain. Fact is I am not living in lowsec, nor do I plan to move into lowsec in any foreseeable future. I'm saying maybe you should be living in lowsec. I know you want to live in null (I want a new Ferrari too), but it doesn't sound like it's really your cup of tea unless you can have a ton of easy-access wormholes to highsec. That's really your core issue, but you're kinda trying to white-knight for wormholer's PVP instead because you know you'd get laughed out of this subforum otherwise as a nullseccer concerned about his easy logistics. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 10:28:49 - [76] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: That was actually a serious answer, I wasn't trolling. Less nullseccers having a say in how w-space works the better. Though I already did answer your question. You just have to read back through my posts. 1) Why are you advocating less WH traffic/pvp? Are you a farmer? Are you still salty about your recent tengu loss? There is no other reason I can think of for a WH resident not wanting WH connections. 2) nullseccers have "no say" in how w-space works, all they can do is complaining about it, posting on forums about that. Until the nerf I never even looked into this subforum, thus your theory that less WH content leads to less nullseccers here is obviously wrong. Erica Dusette wrote: Not really, just a few vague points and kinda abstract comments. its obvious and self explanatory. Less WH connections means: 1) taken chances for WH folks to find targets/fighs -> less pvp. 2) taken chances for null folks to find a chain to a different part of null for targets/fight -> less pvp. and "less pvp" (much less in current context) is just another word for "parts of pvp being removed", thus my saying about removed pvp - here again pretty obvious. Erica Dusette wrote: I'm saying maybe you should be living in lowsec. I know you want to live in null (I want a new Ferrari too), but it doesn't sound like it's really your cup of tea unless you can have a ton of easy-access wormholes to highsec. I'm not saying I want to live in null, I'm saying I live in null and thats why I am affected by the change in a severe way. Sure its my cup of tea, I can stay there and I can keep comlaining about the changed mechanics how much I like, nothing you could do anything about. Erica Dusette wrote: That's really your core issue, but you're kinda trying to white-knight for wormholer's PVP instead because you know you'd get laughed out of this subforum otherwise as a nullseccer concerned about his easy logistics. I never tried to hide my concerns, dunno how you would view it that way. What I'm honestly concerned about are removed/nerfed pvp abilities for everyone including nullseccers, wormholers and lowseccers all together.
Mikha'el Airuta Sigin-tarag Anoikis Ronin 1390	Posted - 2015.07.16 10:39:08 - [77] - Quote LOL at calling Ms. Dusette a farmer. If you actually lived in WH space, you would know she and her family are the most dedicated pure WH PvP oriented ppl, I have ever met there. But I forgive you, you cant see that from Jita station.
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 10:41:40 - [78] - Quote Mikha'el Airuta wrote: LOL at calling Ms. Dusette a farmer. If you actually lived in WH space, you would know she and her family are the most dedicated pure WH PvP oriented ppl, I have ever met there. But I forgive you, you cant see that from Jita station. I havent called anyone anything, it was a question. Because I have no idea why a pvper would otherwise so deliberately advocate against pvp resulting from more/better WH connections.
Mark Hadden Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 61	Posted - 2015.07.16 10:45:12 - [79] - Quote Mikha'el Airuta wrote: LOL at calling Ms. Dusette a farmer. If you actually lived in WH space, you would know she and her family are the most dedicated pure WH PvP oriented ppl, I have ever met there. But I forgive you, you cant see that from Jita station. and thanks for worrying about the view from jita station for my trading char, appreciated.
Winthorp 3566	Posted - 2015.07.16 10:47:34 - [80] - Quote Axloth Okiah wrote: Winthorp wrote: Axloth Okiah wrote: While the removal of handy NS access might (ideally) lead to certain refocus back to WH brawls, I'm afraid it is much more likely to lead to even less WH content, as groups which deliberately focus on null and use their WH as a mobile base just pack up and leave (to null or thera, probably; leaving a farming crew behind, maybe). So up til now, you could fight them, because they would take wh fight if they could (they just wouldnt spend much effort looking for it). After the change, its quite possible they wont be there at all. I think that it is quite naive to hope, that making wspace living less fun and less convenient will lead to increase in content for those living there. But those people that do roam null constantly are well "roaming null constantly". You can't fight what isn't there in their chain, scanning the chain further or rolling their chain... I agree some people might leave because they can't have their insta fun and are too lazy to scan/roll/seige/loggoff/invade/camp for it but i am not unhappy about that honestly. I have to disagree. Those things arent mutually exclusive. "Roaming in null" doesnt equal "not fighting in wspace". HK, SSC, LH and many other (less blobby) corps roam null constantly in search for targets, yet I dont think you can claim they dont also fight in wspace. If you roll into them, they'll return from null to fight you. None will fight you if you roll into an inactive hole, because they moved out, starved for fights, bored of waiting for days between wh content. I also disagree with the notion that fighting in wspace is somehow inherently superior to fighting in null and more desirable. Big invasions and cap brawls are great, yes. Best of all, we might say. But how often do they happen? Majority of the wspace pvp is ganks. What makes ganking in wspace so much more leet than ganking in null? Why is ganking sleeper-farming dreads good and ganking ratting carriers bad? We have no local, no gates, etc. but its still a gank. I do feel "roaming in WH space" does indeed equal not fighting in WH space. I don't think i made the leap to say that that meant they wouldn't come home and fight you but since you bring it up i guess everyone would then evaluate the desire to "come back" dependent on who or what. I do find fights in WH space (not ganks) to be far superior to null roams in crappy ships. But then that is a personal opinion and well this is what this is all about. I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's". Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...

Mikha'el Airuta Sigin-tarag Anoikis Ronin 1392	Posted - 2015.07.16 10:55:22 - [81] - Quote Mark Hadden wrote: Mikha'el Airuta wrote: LOL at calling Ms. Dusette a farmer. If you actually lived in WH space, you would know she and her family are the most dedicated pure WH PvP oriented ppl, I have ever met there. But I forgive you, you cant see that from Jita station. and thanks for worrying about the view from jita station for my trading char, appreciated. And here we have it, meine damen und herren! Its just a PL guy crying. Well I did my job, revealed the identity of this strange guy. Now I can walk away happy.
Mark Hadden Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 61	Posted - 2015.07.16 10:57:28 - [82] - Quote it was never secret, I just happened to post with my other toon on forums for years and revealed him to be my alt on multiple occassions. Crying? Whatever naming suits your feeling best.
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 48159	Posted - 2015.07.16 10:58:05 - [83] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: 1) Why are you advocating less WH traffic/pvp? Are you a farmer? Are you still salty about your recent tengu loss? There is no other reason I can think of for a WH resident not wanting WH connections. Wow, you went looking up killboards and stuff for more troll-angles? I really must be hitting home then. No, not worried about the Tengu, though I am very upset about getting podded. Do you have any clue how much work goes into this figure? Month after month, every morning jogging around the stront tanks, hundreds of crunches, not to mention pelvic floor exercises. Goddammit. But in seriousness, I'm not advocating for less WH traffic/PVP - Merely reshaping it. The reasons why I've already stated. Robert Caldera wrote: 2) nullseccers have "no say" in how w-space works, all they can do is complaining about it, posting on forums about that. Until the nerf I never even looked into this subforum, thus your theory that less WH content leads to less nullseccers here is obviously wrong. That doesn't really even make sense. Robert Caldera wrote: its obvious and self explanatory. Less WH connections means: 1) taken chances for WH folks to find targets/fighs -> less pvp. 2) taken chances for null folks to find a chain to a different part of null for targets/fight -> less pvp. and "less pvp" (much less in current context) is just another word for "parts of pvp being removed", thus my saying about removed pvp - here again pretty obvious. Nah, it's just redirecting folks a little. The pvp is still there. Wormholers can still find a null exit easy as pie if we wanted. We generally have multiple null exits in chain daily. The problem is when you're surrounded by a smorgasbord of null it becomes easier to forget w-space all together and just go on a null roam (I see it first hand), and that I do not like. It's a nice option, but some nerfs to stop it being the first choice for pvp are good imo. Robert Caldera wrote: I'm not saying I want to live in null, I say I live in null and thats why I am affected by the change. Sure its my cup of tea, I can stay there and I can keep comlaining about the changed mechanics how much I like, nothing you could do anything about. Umm, okay? Robert Caldera wrote: I never tried to hide my concerns, dunno how you would view it that way. What I'm honestly concerned about are removed/nerfed pvp abilities for everyone including nullseccers, wormholers and lowseccers all together. You sure you're not hiding something? Because you really don't strike me as someone concerned about pvp. Yay, my turn to do the killboard thing! Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 48159	Posted - 2015.07.16 10:59:49 - [84] - Quote Mark Hadden wrote: Mikha'el Airuta wrote: LOL at calling Ms. Dusette a farmer. If you actually lived in WH space, you would know she and her family are the most dedicated pure WH PvP oriented ppl, I have ever met there. But I forgive you, you cant see that from Jita station. and thanks for worrying about the view from jita station for my trading char, appreciated. Ah, there you are! See, that wasn't so hard, was it? Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 11:09:15 - [85] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: But in seriousness, I'm not advocating for less WH traffic/PVP - Merely reshaping it. The reasons why I've already stated. reshaping into what? For more WH fights? Removing pvp and complicating logistics then isnt a proper way to lure more folks into WH, is it? Isn't it? Erica Dusette wrote: Nah, it's just redirecting folks a little. The pvp is still there. redirecting to where? Lowsec? Trying to understand your way of thinking. I already explained in what way pvp got reduced, its obvious. Erica Dusette wrote: Wormholers can still find a null exit easy as pie if we wanted. We generally have multiple null exits in chain daily. still they can, never questioned the fact itself. Its just about the amount and effort, which was raised beyond limits for nor real reason. Why would you want to spend hours on few poor chains compared to pre-Aegis? What is the gain for you in more probing for less connections? Erica Dusette wrote: The problem is when you're surrounded by a smorgasbord of null it becomes easier to forget w-space all together and just go on a null roam (I see it first hand), and that I do not like. It's a nice option, but some nerfs to stop it being the first choice for pvp are good imo. what?
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 34222	Posted - 2015.07.16 11:14:20 - [86] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: 2) nullseccers have "no say" in how w-space works, all they can do is complaining about it, posting on forums about that. Until the nerf I never even looked into this subforum, thus your theory that less WH content leads to less nullseccers here is obviously wrong. That's ironic that you say that, because we wormholers who frequent the WH subforum also have "no say" in what happens to our space nine times outta ten. In Anoikis .. Bob Is Always Watching ... "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -ér-à-ò-é -ôew, -ôear none, -òave yo-àr love -ôor only one.
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 11:18:30 - [87] - Quote Candi LeMew wrote: That's ironic that you say that, because we wormholers who frequent the WH subforum also have "no say" in what happens to our space nine times outta ten. I was curious and amused about the "no say" part anyways
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1200	Posted - 2015.07.16 11:21:20 - [88] - Quote Winthorp wrote: I do feel "roaming in WH space" does indeed equal not fighting in WH space. I don't think i made the leap to say that that meant they wouldn't come home and fight you but since you bring it up i guess everyone would then evaluate the desire to "come back" dependent on who or what. I do find fights in WH space (not ganks) to be far superior to null roams in crappy ships. But then that is a personal opinion and well this is what this is all about. A big issue with wormholes is the sense of entitlement, as posted way above. The entitled to a fight, right here, on this hole, at 0m. If you want a fight in w-space, it should always start with you snatching one of them and escalating from there. If you could kill him, hold him, if they don't form within 2-3 minutes and start coming on grid, kill it and roll it. Taking a fight because someone sits on a hole asking for one is RCOAT-level of sadness.
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 48159	Posted - 2015.07.16 11:43:30 - [89] - Quote Too many quotes. Let me just try to summarise with the one; Robert Caldera wrote: what? You want people fighting you instead of roaming null? Is denying them null content your strategy to achieve more WH pvp? Actually, well ... yes. I'd much rather that fleet stayed in chain so we can come across them. Though I'm not talking about denying any content. As I said a few times, wormholers can find a null hole quite easy most times. If we really want to do a null roam it's not going to be a problem, even with the "nerf". Though the ease of access shifts a little, which will maybe make some groups persist in hunting the chain for a bit longer, rather than take the first exit to null for a sure fight. And that's a good thing for wormholers who're looking for a fight in wormholes. Maybe that's just me. I'm a wormholer who likes to fly wormhole ships, in wormholes, against other wormholers. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 11:53:24 - [90] - Quote but WH space already has a scarce population, doesnt it? In Phoebe they got their logistics nerfed by jump changes. Aegis removed a lions share of null entrys for already punched logistics and nerfs them once again, while nerfing pvp potential in same move. Would you expect influx of more people into WH space (who could fight you) resulting from these changes? And stop talking about shifts and such! CCP didnt give us new ways of finding targets/fights which haven't existed before, all they did is severely cutting existing ways and methods for player confrontation, so please for the love of god stop talking about shifting or moving of pvp encounters - we are clearly witnessing obvious removal of pvp with these change, CCP hasnt provided anything new for us but generously cut on what we had. Erica Dusette wrote: As I said a few times, wormholers can find a null hole quite easy most times. If we really want to do a null roam it's not going to be a problem, even with the "nerf". Though the ease of access shifts a little, which will maybe make some groups persist in hunting the chain for a bit longer, rather than take the first exit to null for a sure fight. I'm reading different opinions here and on reddit, which correlate very well to my experience of probing WH - while you could go probing for 1h and found a couple of null exits, post-Aegis you have to spend 3-4 hours or whole day and wont find any good at all.

Erica Dusette Isogen 5 48169	Posted - 2015.07.16 12:04:07 - [91] - Quote Exactly. See? You're approaching it from your perspective as a nullsec pilot. I'm approaching it from my perspective as a wormholer. There is no right or wrong, our desires aren't going to meet or match up. For most wormholers null is little more than a part-time thing, a place you go for something a little different or for times when your chain is seriously empty of content. For you, however, these wormhole connections are absolutely critical for ease of logistics. This change might mean you have to scan more, or travel a few jumps and risk a fight with other nullsec groups. Likewise it means we have to scan more, jump more holes and risk more fights with other wormholers while trying to get our null roam on. Heaven forbid. Mikha'el Airuta wrote: LOL at calling Ms. Dusette a farmer. If you actually lived in WH space, you would know she and her family are the most dedicated pure WH PvP oriented ppl, I have ever met there. But I forgive you, you cant see that from Jita station. That dank isk tho. You're a sweety, Mik. ^^ Tbh though, I have over forty characters and not one of them even owns a PVE ship. Unless you count the mining barges three of my characters fly in a rookie system where I mentor new pilots in my spare time. I think the last time I even shot a sleeper was when it had one of our pilots pointed after a fight. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 12:06:47 - [92] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: For most wormholers null is little more than a part-time thing, a place you go for something a little different or for times when your chain is seriously empty of content. ok if you say so.. Cant speak for other wormholers from my perspective. Erica Dusette wrote: For you, however, these wormhole connections are absolutely critical for ease of logistics. This change might mean you have to scan more, or travel a few jumps and risk a fight with other nullsec groups. not at all, our logistics is 100% independent from wormholes.
Winthorp 3567	Posted - 2015.07.16 12:09:54 - [93] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: Tbh though, I have over forty characters and not one of them even owns a PVE ship. And what if i said to you that i consider a Barghest a PVE ship. What of these allegations my lady? How do you plead? I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's". Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 48172	Posted - 2015.07.16 12:57:35 - [94] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: Erica Dusette wrote: For most wormholers null is little more than a part-time thing, a place you go for something a little different or for times when your chain is seriously empty of content. ok if you say so.. Cant speak for other wormholers from my perspective. True, some people may be different and live in w-space just to fly in null. Losing those people won't really effect w-space as they obviously never roam and fight in it anyway, so ... Robert Caldera wrote: not at all, our logistics is 100% independent from wormholes. Its more about finding a fight in some different part of null, chance which is practically void in Aegis, dunno how this can be considered to be good, unless you are a carrier ratter in some deep ass farming grounds in null. Fair enough. But is it really going to make a massive difference? I mean you'll probably still have plenty of holes spawn within a few jumps of wherever you are. I'm sure having multiple spawn in your home system is a nice luxury though, sure, and I can see how people wouldn't want to lose that. Winthorp wrote: Erica Dusette wrote: Tbh though, I have over forty characters and not one of them even owns a PVE ship. And what if i said to you that i consider a Barghest a PVE ship. What of these allegations my lady? How do you plead? If you class POS as an environmental opponent then guilty as charged, sir. Also, why am I even posting here so much. I hate nullsex. One of those nights ... Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Jezza McWaffle No Vacancies 234	Posted - 2015.07.16 13:08:42 - [95] - Quote Im with Erica on this one, It's not like its hard to find nulls even after the change, scanning doesn't take ages and if you get a load of c5 connections then you very likely to have a null exit, I'd much rather promote staying in the WH chain than going to null cause null frankly sucks, blobbing or station gaming is not challenging. C6 Wormhole blog http://holelotofwaffle.wordpress.com/
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1232	Posted - 2015.07.16 13:11:24 - [96] - Quote glad the non-retards are echoing my sentiments from the first page~ Some say I'm a prophet I just say I'm blessed For the people whining "oh it's so hard to move caps without nulls" then go look for LS holes? It's even easier to move through there and it's not like you're going to get #rekkingcr(uski)ewed. Roaming null isn't WH content, if it is then PL is a toptier WH alice since we roam null for content too. Pls include us on the spreadsheet tia in advance. Winthorp is right, whining entitled babbies cry whenever they have to adapt. If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 48180	Posted - 2015.07.16 13:26:53 - [97] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: Some say I'm a prophet I just say I'm blessed You're pretty much the only good thing null has going for it. Still think you'd be better off back in wormholes though. For the record I vouched for you, but was blobbed and podded out of the discussion. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1234	Posted - 2015.07.16 13:28:10 - [98] - Quote All I want is slack access :< If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 13:32:25 - [99] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: True, some people may be different and live in w-space just to fly in null. Losing those people won't really effect w-space as they obviously never roam and fight in it anyway, so ... I dont think there are people living in WH space purely for k-space ganks/roams, its more of addon content on top of scarce WH stuff I would assume but again, these wormholers would need to raise their voice here. Erica Dusette wrote: But is it really going to make a massive difference? it made a difference, as I said CCP pushed the whole thing into the realm of time waste. Erica Dusette wrote: I mean you'll probably still have plenty of holes spawn within a few jumps of wherever you are. not at all. You have to probe a whole region for 1-2 poor/EOL null chains you dont want. Why I said multiple times it became time waste, noone is gonna probe whole evening for that. Erica Dusette wrote: I'm sure having multiple spawn in your home system is a nice luxury though, sure, and I can see how people wouldn't want to lose that. dunno how you got an image of nullseccers skewed that much, pre-Aegis you had to scan your area around your home and usually one of probers found some good chain within 15 jumps from where you live - a lot of probing work was implied to find them and you got rewarded with a fight or gank - effort and reward balance was quite decent.. Multiple in your home system, holy sh.. that would've been nice but it was faaaaaar from that.
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 48180	Posted - 2015.07.16 13:34:55 - [100] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: All I want is slack access :< I'm working on it ... Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò

Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1235	Posted - 2015.07.16 13:43:54 - [101] - Quote the use of emojis will SURELY sway them If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 48180	Posted - 2015.07.16 13:47:18 - [102] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: the use of emojis will SURELY sway them I can't help it. It's just the way you make me feel. I can go edit it and throw in some love hearts and **** too if you think that might help? Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1235	Posted - 2015.07.16 13:53:29 - [103] - Quote tell them I keep it :100::100::100: If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Mark Hadden Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 61	Posted - 2015.07.16 15:06:59 - [104] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: glad the non-retards are echoing my sentiments from the first page~ Some say I'm a prophet I just say I'm blessed For the people whining "oh it's so hard to move caps without nulls" then go look for LS holes? It's even easier to move through there and it's not like you're going to get #rekkingcr(uski)ewed. Roaming null isn't WH content, if it is then PL is a toptier WH alice since we roam null for content too. Pls include us on the spreadsheet tia in advance. Winthorp is right, whining entitled babbies cry whenever they have to adapt. "whining entitled babbies", did you ever try to find any useable chain for us since the nerf or are you one of those who jump on a set up fleet by ping and have absolutely no idea about the undergoing effort of preparation? Judging by your posts, I would rather assume the last, you also arent in the wh channel on IRC. Maybe you should go probing by yourself prior calling others "whining babies", just saying.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1235	Posted - 2015.07.16 15:11:35 - [105] - Quote Mark Hadden wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: glad the non-retards are echoing my sentiments from the first page~ Some say I'm a prophet I just say I'm blessed For the people whining "oh it's so hard to move caps without nulls" then go look for LS holes? It's even easier to move through there and it's not like you're going to get #rekkingcr(uski)ewed. Roaming null isn't WH content, if it is then PL is a toptier WH alice since we roam null for content too. Pls include us on the spreadsheet tia in advance. Winthorp is right, whining entitled babbies cry whenever they have to adapt. "whining entitled babbies", did you ever try to find any useable chain for us since the nerf or are you one of those who jump on a set up fleet by ping and have absolutely no idea about the underlying effort of preparation? Judging by your posts, I would rather assume the last, you also arent in the wh channel on IRC. Maybe you should go probing by yourself prior calling others "whining babies", just saying. No I've definitely never probed before nor do I have prober alts. Nope never If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Neckbeard Nolyfe Zero Fun Allowed Confederation of xXPIZZAXx 85	Posted - 2015.07.16 15:12:54 - [106] - Quote If you want nullsec connections so much go live in thera, it has been made for that purpose. I've yet to notice a decline in nullsec connections in c6's. *~lvl 60 paladin~*
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1039	Posted - 2015.07.16 15:20:53 - [107] - Quote Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote: If you want nullsec connections so much go live in thera, it has been made for that purpose. I've yet to notice a decline in nullsec connections in c6's. C6 havent been nerfed, its C5 which got the nerfhammer.
Aladar Dangerface 13. Enigma Project 187	Posted - 2015.07.16 15:55:33 - [108] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: Wormholers can still find a null exit easy as pie if we wanted. We generally have multiple null exits in chain daily. The problem is when you're surrounded by a smorgasbord of null it becomes easier to forget w-space all together and just go on a null roam (I see it first hand), and that I do not like. It's a nice option, but some nerfs to stop it being the first choice for pvp are good imo. This is exactly how i feel about it, while going on a null roam can be fun i would prefer to only do it when my chain is completely dead , i would never chose to do it over scouting my chain for a fight in wh space and the reduction (not complete removal like the duder from PL is shouting about) will more than likely force people to find more content and stay in their chains. No wormholer worth their salt is gona move out of w-space just because they cant find enough null exits, that just ridiculous. I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.
CivilWars Rolled Out Triumvirate. 295	Posted - 2015.07.16 16:41:39 - [109] - Quote My teartank is full again. Thx wh forum, you always deliver. Hidden Fremen liked your forum post: Jack Miton liked your forum post:
TurboX3 Hax. Wrecked. 130	Posted - 2015.07.16 20:57:28 - [110] - Quote R.I.P. W-Space No Trolling Please

Justin Cody Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 296	Posted - 2015.07.16 22:36:40 - [111] - Quote Aladar Dangerface wrote: Erica Dusette wrote: Wormholers can still find a null exit easy as pie if we wanted. We generally have multiple null exits in chain daily. The problem is when you're surrounded by a smorgasbord of null it becomes easier to forget w-space all together and just go on a null roam (I see it first hand), and that I do not like. It's a nice option, but some nerfs to stop it being the first choice for pvp are good imo. This is exactly how i feel about it, while going on a null roam can be fun i would prefer to only do it when my chain is completely dead , i would never chose to do it over scouting my chain for a fight in wh space and the reduction (not complete removal like the duder from PL is shouting about) will more than likely force people to find more content and stay in their chains. No wormholer worth their salt is gona move out of w-space just because they cant find enough null exits, that just ridiculous. You're wrong. There isn't enough content actively W-space because of risk averse nullbears that precipitated this change. Hell most of C6 space is either rented or empty and the same goes for C5. Sure a few entities have c3 and under space but pvp is still limited there compared to a nice spontaneous null roam. Its fun getting Pith X-type large shield booster drops from Ishtars and also killing Gilas. The fact that you get less notice because Wh's are "everywhere" isn't an excuse to nerf the **** out of it. The other day we rolled holes for 2 hours before we got a single null anywhere in our chain. It's bull.
Justin Cody Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 296	Posted - 2015.07.16 22:38:07 - [112] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote: If you want nullsec connections so much go live in thera, it has been made for that purpose. I've yet to notice a decline in nullsec connections in c6's. C6 havent been nerfed, its C5 which got the nerfhammer. C248's were nerfed from 48 hours down to 16 as were Z142's across the board - yes c6's got nerfed.
Daimian Mercer Tripwire Mapper 151	Posted - 2015.07.16 23:14:55 - [113] - Quote Once the fighting subsides and you guys want more data on the topic send me a evemail or gmail daimian.mercer - sorry it is hard to keep up with all the posts. Creator of Tripwire mapping tool - EVE-O thread Twitter \| [email protected]
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 2581	Posted - 2015.07.17 00:00:30 - [114] - Quote stares hard at J123555 and cohorts with laser death eyes of pointed staringness like, seriously stared at them notes they have nullsec statics refutes "oh we like our cap fites" with "once a month tops sobig loss you entitled queefbags" ogles K346 fondles Q003 Oh, right, it's rude to stare isn't it? Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA ~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Iyokus Patrouette Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 566	Posted - 2015.07.17 01:01:16 - [115] - Quote aaaannnnddd iiiiiiiiiiiii Will alllwwwaaayyyysss llloooovvveee yyooooooouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu ---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
Kynric Sky Fighters 326	Posted - 2015.07.17 01:04:50 - [116] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: stares hard at J123555 and cohorts with laser death eyes of pointed staringness like, seriously stared at them notes they have nullsec statics refutes "oh we like our cap fites" with "once a month tops sobig loss you entitled queefbags" ogles K346 fondles Q003 Oh, right, it's rude to stare isn't it? If only it were that simple. Within my corporation there are pilots that love their big ships as well as pilots that could not possibly care any less about big ships. Among the ones that like the big ships are guys that have put years of skill training focused only on their great big boat. Nevermind that they rarely use the silly things, that ship is a part of them and they are part of the family. These guys have been together for years. Until now a c5/c5 because it had previously had so many null exits could practically be thought of as having a null static. As such our home worked well for both groups of pilots and they were quite happy. This change if it persists will force a choice that will leave one or the other portion of pilots very unhappy. That is the sort of choice that results in fewer pilots actually playing the game. Perhaps you have not noticed, but in the US timezone c5 space is an empty hollow wasteland of inactivity. Hole after hole without either ships or wrecks to be seen. Nearly all content is found by leaving it for lower class space or null rather than inside the 5/5 highway. This recent change will likely make that rather poor situation worse rather than better. What I want from CCP is a solution that results in both groups of interests being just as happy and eager to play EVE as they were before this change was made.
Kynric Sky Fighters 326	Posted - 2015.07.17 01:06:36 - [117] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: stares hard at J123555 and cohorts with laser death eyes of pointed staringness like, seriously stared at them notes they have nullsec statics refutes "oh we like our cap fites" with "once a month tops sobig loss you entitled queefbags" ogles K346 fondles Q003 Oh, right, it's rude to stare isn't it? If only it were that simple. Within my corporation there are pilots that love their big ships as well as pilots that could not possibly care any less about big ships. Among the ones that like the big ships are guys that have put years of skill training focused only on their great big boat. Nevermind that they rarely use the silly things, that ship is a part of them and they are part of the family. These guys have been together for years. Until now a c5/c5 because it had previously had so many null exits could practically be thought of as having a null static. As such our home worked well for both groups of pilots and they were quite happy. This change if it persists will force a choice that will leave one or the other portion of pilots very unhappy. That is the sort of choice that results in fewer pilots actually playing the game. Perhaps you have not noticed, but in the US timezone c5 space is an empty hollow wasteland of inactivity. Hole after hole without either ships or wrecks to be seen. Nearly all content is found by leaving it for lower class space or null rather than inside the 5/5 highway. This recent change will likely make that rather poor situation worse rather than better. What I want from CCP is a solution that results in both groups of interests being just as happy and eager to play EVE as they were before this change was made.
Nox52 Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 85	Posted - 2015.07.17 03:30:11 - [118] - Quote Kynric wrote: Trinkets friend wrote: stares hard at J123555 and cohorts with laser death eyes of pointed staringness like, seriously stared at them notes they have nullsec statics refutes "oh we like our cap fites" with "once a month tops sobig loss you entitled queefbags" ogles K346 fondles Q003 Oh, right, it's rude to stare isn't it? If only it were that simple. Within my corporation there are pilots that love their big ships as well as pilots that could not possibly care any less about big ships. Among the ones that like the big ships are guys that have put years of skill training focused only on their great big boat. Nevermind that they rarely use the silly things, that ship is a part of them and they are part of the family. These guys have been together for years. Until now a c5/c5 because it had previously had so many null exits could practically be thought of as having a null static. As such our home worked well for both groups of pilots and they were quite happy. This change if it persists will force a choice that will leave one or the other portion of pilots very unhappy. That is the sort of choice that results in fewer pilots actually playing the game. Perhaps you have not noticed, but in the US timezone c5 space is an empty hollow wasteland of inactivity. Hole after hole without either ships or wrecks to be seen. Nearly all content is found by leaving it for lower class space or null rather than inside the 5/5 highway. This recent change will likely make that rather poor situation worse rather than better. What I would like from CCP is a solution that results in both groups of interests being just as happy and eager to play EVE as they were before this change was made. And your problem steams very acutely from the fact that the c5-c5 superhighway is now virtually carebearland deluxe, mainly out of the mechanic that it's safer to bear up by rolling the holes and cushioning yourself in nice fluffy isolation. No amount of intrinsic wormhole spawn/time changes will change that. You're really missing the null access so to speak because your chain is dead.
unimatrix0030 Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 199	Posted - 2015.07.17 05:22:52 - [119] - Quote How can anyone say it is a good change? Everyone like the more connections c4's have gotten, now c5's get less. Less connections, less content, for everybody! No local in null sec would fix everything! Fleet warp proposal = the rubix cube is back into eve especialy the second part of the saying. Wh players need to adapt, null sec players get the rules changed.
Winthorp 3574	Posted - 2015.07.17 06:55:37 - [120] - Quote unimatrix0030 wrote: How can anyone say it is a good change? Everyone like the more connections c4's have gotten, now c5's get less. Less connections, less content, for everybody! Are you really going to compare dual WH statics in C4's to the plethora of Null WH's that was in C5's? I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's". Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...

Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 2583	Posted - 2015.07.17 06:58:00 - [121] - Quote Kynric wrote: If only it were that simple. Within my corporation there are pilots that love their big ships as well as pilots that could not possibly care any less about big ships. Among the ones that like the big ships are guys that have put years of skill training focused only on their great big boat. Nevermind that they rarely use the silly things, that ship is a part of them and they are part of the family. These guys have been together for years. Until now a c5/c5 because it had previously had so many null exits could practically be thought of as having a null static. As such our home worked well for both groups of pilots and they were quite happy. This change if it persists will force a choice that will leave one or the other portion of pilots very unhappy. That is the sort of choice that results in fewer pilots actually playing the game. Perhaps you have not noticed, but in the US timezone c5 space is an empty hollow wasteland of inactivity. Hole after hole without either ships or wrecks to be seen. Nearly all content is found by leaving it for lower class space or null rather than inside the 5/5 highway. This recent change will likely make that rather poor situation worse rather than better. What I would like from CCP is a solution that results in both groups of interests being just as happy and eager to play EVE as they were before this change was made. So you are saying, basically, that there's two types of C5 players. The guys who are attached umbilically to their caps and those who aren't. I mean, I accept your argument. I dumped a good 12 months of skills into capitals (which as you know, isn't perfect skills by any means). I still have 3 carriers and a dread. Maybe two, I cbf searching my loot pile. More fool me, thinking bigger was better, or just doing it because i can. But does that mean I have to live in a C5, and fight with caps, and moan horribly every time something bad happens to C5's (like, daily it seems), but never change my ways, stuck in a C5 with a shrinking circle of grizzled, hairy-necked old rich men plowing the buttcracks of Sleepers day in and day out? No. I can get my caps, and just jump them out to lowsec. Any lowsec. Park them up, or put them on contracts for whoever wants to buy them, take that ISK, roll it into a ball, katamari it up into a E/N C2, write off my cap skillpoints as "LOL CCP", learn how to use a MWD and transversal again, laugh uproariously at that idea, get into a Gila because ::drones::, and go to nullsec on a daily basis. There's no argument for why C5's HAVE TO be all about the caps, and that because it's all abut the caps that means you should have unfettered access to miles and miles of nullsec daily, and because it gets removed, it's impinging on your game. In fact, you should split your corps. The old neckbeards can stay in their krab pots making money, and the other guys can shunt off down to a E/N C2 or a K346 or Z060, and get don to bidnuss schlepping about nullsec with no way for Fozzie to nerf them. Well, i say that now, but i'm sure if HK actually did move into an E/N hole, and did turn it into a terrifying unsinkable spawn point of death in nullsec, then Sort Dragon would ask for C2's to be removed from the game and it would happen. Poor Sort Dragon. Rest of you can adapt or DIAF. Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA ~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1040	Posted - 2015.07.17 07:48:19 - [122] - Quote unimatrix0030 wrote: How can anyone say it is a good change? Everyone like the more connections c4's have gotten, now c5's get less. Less connections, less content, for everybody! they think they will get more WH fights because people cant roam null anymore.
Aladar Dangerface 13. Enigma Project 190	Posted - 2015.07.17 09:36:29 - [123] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: Rest of you can adapt or DIAF. Couldn't have out it better myself. I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.
Aladar Dangerface 13. Enigma Project 190	Posted - 2015.07.17 09:41:50 - [124] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: unimatrix0030 wrote: How can anyone say it is a good change? Everyone like the more connections c4's have gotten, now c5's get less. Less connections, less content, for everybody! they think they will get more WH fights because people cant roam null anymore. Well facing up to reality only gives you two real options (whining like a little *** not being one of them). 1. Leave wh space and go live in null, if that's where you want to fight. or 2. Go further down you chain and look for fights. Like i have previously said, the majority of people won't leave to go for null (since wormholers in general have a disdain for null-seccers) because of these changes, so it only really leaves one option doesn't it? I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.**
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1041	Posted - 2015.07.17 09:49:48 - [125] - Quote you might hold onto your adapt or die narrative but you shouldnt forget, once enough people choose to DIAF (read: leave WH and do something else) you'll DIAF with them. In a game like eve with a very little playerbase, in an even smaller fraction of the wormholers player pool - this is likely to happen sooner than you'd think. I cant speak much about WH space overall, since I dont live there but every time I pass, it feels like stepping through a ghost town. Time will tell..
Winthorp 3574	Posted - 2015.07.17 09:53:03 - [126] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: rabble rabble rabble Are you still going to counter every single posters opinion without still even posting why you need or want it to be like before? Maybe you can edit quote them some more... I am Winthorp, you might remember me from such films as "Winthorp is to blame for permanent signature ID's". Please note i don't engage in any meaningful discussion with NPC alts, nut up or shut up...
Aladar Dangerface 13. Enigma Project 190	Posted - 2015.07.17 10:15:45 - [127] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: I cant speak much about WH space overall, since I dont live there but every time I pass, it feels like stepping through a ghost town. We are there, cloaked, in our proteii, watching, waiting.............. I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 48252	Posted - 2015.07.17 10:57:43 - [128] - Quote unimatrix0030 wrote: How can anyone say it is a good change? Everyone like the more connections c4's have gotten, now c5's get less. Less connections, less content, for everybody! More connections to other w-space systems is always good. More connections to null is a different thing all together. I don't want more null content, thanks. I'd live in null if I did. More wormhole content is always welcome though. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1203	Posted - 2015.07.17 10:58:26 - [129] - Quote Aladar Dangerface wrote: Robert Caldera wrote: I cant speak much about WH space overall, since I dont live there but every time I pass, it feels like stepping through a ghost town. We are there, cloaked, in our proteii, watching, waiting.............. So I found those probes in my static converging on the K162 I just punched in, I just left it for a quick check. Get my sabre ready. While waiting, a second sabre lands next to me and cloaks up. Scanner jumps, other sabre decloaks to go for the scanner, I decloak to sabre that sabre, another proteus decloaks and both sabres **** their pants, jump through and panicwarp to some random spot. #Wormholes
Michael1995 Lazerhawks 184	Posted - 2015.07.17 11:47:02 - [130] - Quote Winthorp wrote: unimatrix0030 wrote: How can anyone say it is a good change? Everyone like the more connections c4's have gotten, now c5's get less. Less connections, less content, for everybody! Are you really going to compare dual WH statics in C4's to the plethora of Null WH's that was in C5's? I dunno about other corps but we always scan in Null systems for more N432s to keep the chain going. Don't think that this nerf just takes away from wormholers being able to ~gank~ nullbears. It's also taken away chances of coming across wormholers via N432 chains off Null systems. Wtb more roaming C5>C5/6 wormholes. Like what C2 space has. Dual W-Space statics would also be dope. Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks Citizens, E X P L O S I O N, Sleeper Social Club, Isogen 5, Sky Fighters. Join up for swag drake ganks with guardian fleets and chain rolling C1s for more dank drake ganks!

Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1238	Posted - 2015.07.17 13:48:23 - [131] - Quote Erica Dusette wrote: I don't want more null content, thanks. I'd live in null if I did. More wormhole content is always welcome though. no it's a WHer's god-given right to be able to roam null as much as they want Thera has a bunch of null statics~ If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 34255	Posted - 2015.07.17 14:08:38 - [132] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: Erica Dusette wrote: I don't want more null content, thanks. I'd live in null if I did. More wormhole content is always welcome though. no it's a WHer's god-given right to be able to roam null as much as they want Thera has a bunch of null statics~ But Thera is null s ... oh, I get it now. Anyway, call me traditional but ** nullsec. You read half the posts here and in the same breath people complain about lack of content in w-space, while simultaneously promoting further connections to take more fleets out of w-space. Michael mentioned nulls connectivity to further w-space, and that's a good point, but lets be honest, most people want the nulls for null, not the next connection to w-space. It's a great option to have, and a nice change at times, but imo it's becoming all too common for peope to write off their chains even before they login sometimes, even in my corp I hear people planning what they're going to do in null next time they login. ** that. Rage roll? Nope. Scan further down chain? Nope. Roll static and scan a fresh chain. Sometimes. Null roam? Yeah! And people wonder why nobody is in chain. GTFO out of anoikis. In Anoikis .. Bob Is Always Watching ... "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -¦een -++¦-é w+¦-é a -ôew -ò-+ell-ò, -¦-à-é +¦ don'-é wal-+ w+¦-é a l+¦-+p
Barrogh Habalu Forever Winter Absolute Zero. 929	Posted - 2015.07.17 14:25:26 - [133] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: no it's a WHer's god-given right to be able to roam null as much as they want God giveth, god taketh... Ahem. Sorry. Anyway, I could never imagine wormhole life without ability to go raid null from beyond. I mean, we have Imperium now apparently, why can't we have Eye of Terror then?
CivilWars Rolled Out Triumvirate. 296	Posted - 2015.07.17 15:39:11 - [134] - Quote Recruits or "blues" everything they can. Evicts everyone they can't recruit or blue. Complains there is no content in their "area". Is this the null sub-forum, or wormhole sub-forum? I may be lost. Hidden Fremen liked your forum post: Jack Miton liked your forum post:
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1205	Posted - 2015.07.17 15:44:37 - [135] - Quote CivilWars wrote: Recruits or "blues" everything they can. Evicts everyone they can't recruit or blue. Complains there is no content in their "area". Is this the null sub-forum, or wormhole sub-forum? I may be lost. You are in the wormhole subsection, random dooder #46.
CivilWars Rolled Out Triumvirate. 297	Posted - 2015.07.17 15:49:38 - [136] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: CivilWars wrote: Recruits or "blues" everything they can. Evicts everyone they can't recruit or blue. Complains there is no content in their "area". Is this the null sub-forum, or wormhole sub-forum? I may be lost. You are in the wormhole subsection, random dooder #46. Oh noes, a blue fire reject tried to insult me. Whatever shall I do? Hidden Fremen liked your forum post: Jack Miton liked your forum post:
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1238	Posted - 2015.07.17 15:51:58 - [137] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: CivilWars wrote: Recruits or "blues" everything they can. Evicts everyone they can't recruit or blue. Complains there is no content in their "area". Is this the null sub-forum, or wormhole sub-forum? I may be lost. You are in the wormhole subsection, random dooder #46. damn that was weak If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 34261	Posted - 2015.07.17 15:55:01 - [138] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: random dooder #46. He can't be that random, surely. He seems to get it. You'd almost think he'd spent years in wormholes. In Anoikis .. Bob Is Always Watching ... "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -¦een -++¦-é w+¦-é a -ôew -ò-+ell-ò, -¦-à-é +¦ don'-é wal-+ w+¦-é a l+¦-+p
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1205	Posted - 2015.07.17 15:56:51 - [139] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: Lloyd Roses wrote: CivilWars wrote: Recruits or "blues" everything they can. Evicts everyone they can't recruit or blue. Complains there is no content in their "area". Is this the null sub-forum, or wormhole sub-forum? I may be lost. You are in the wormhole subsection, random dooder #46. damn that was weak Implying the whole thread isn't.
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 956	Posted - 2015.07.17 16:07:15 - [140] - Quote What about "one-way" holes, I mean, scannable only from one side, you pass, you bookmark and can go back, but no sig. And a lot of those into nullsec ... I'm my own NPC alt.

Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1238	Posted - 2015.07.17 16:17:11 - [141] - Quote Candi LeMew wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: Erica Dusette wrote: I don't want more null content, thanks. I'd live in null if I did. More wormhole content is always welcome though. no it's a WHer's god-given right to be able to roam null as much as they want Thera has a bunch of null statics~ But Thera is null s ... oh, I get it now. Anyway, call me traditional but ** nullsec. You read half the posts here and in the same breath people complain about lack of content in w-space, while simultaneously promoting further connections to take more fleets out of w-space. Michael mentioned nulls connectivity to further w-space, and that's a good point, but lets be honest, most people want the nulls for null, not the next connection to w-space. It's a great option to have, and a nice change at times, but imo it's becoming all too common for peope to write off their chains even before they login sometimes, even in my corp I hear people planning what they're going to do in null next time they login. ** that. Rage roll? Nope. Scan further down chain? Nope. Roll static and scan a fresh chain. Sometimes. Null roam? Yeah! And people wonder why nobody is in chain. GTFO out of anoikis. more like anoinkis B) If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1238	Posted - 2015.07.17 16:18:21 - [142] - Quote Candi LeMew wrote: Lloyd Roses wrote: random dooder #46. He can't be that random, surely. He seems to get it. You'd almost think he'd spent years in wormholes. no you're immediately excised from memory as soon as you leave If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
CivilWars Rolled Out Triumvirate. 297	Posted - 2015.07.17 16:20:18 - [143] - Quote unimatrix0030 wrote: How can anyone say it is a good change? Everyone like the more connections c4's have gotten, now c5's get less. Less connections, less content, for everybody! I will say it is good for w-space because it will encourage/force people to actually fight IN w-space. If there aren't enough people willing to actually fight IN w-space then they leave or quit. If you live in w-space, and someone who would never fight you anyway leaves then how exactly is it bad for you? If you get most/all of your PVP in null then log off in a J system that doesn't make you a wormholer FYI. Hidden Fremen liked your forum post: Jack Miton liked your forum post:
Jack Hayson Atztech Inc. Ixtab. 253	Posted - 2015.07.17 16:20:59 - [144] - Quote Candi LeMew wrote: And people wonder why nobody is in chain. Do you think that those fleets would be sitting in their chain if there were no null holes? Null holes cause people being in space and only that creates content. If you see a gang leaving through a null hole put a dictor there and catch them on their way back. If there was no null hole they wouldn't be in space and probably not even logged in. Besides... in certain parts of null those wormholes are the only threat left that ratters have to face.(well that and those super scary afk cloakers) Of course the carebears are pushing hard for their removal so that they can afk rat in safety.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1238	Posted - 2015.07.17 16:23:00 - [145] - Quote "if there weren't null holes I wouldn't even play this game" I can't even If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
CivilWars Rolled Out Triumvirate. 297	Posted - 2015.07.17 16:23:21 - [146] - Quote Jack Hayson wrote: Candi LeMew wrote: And people wonder why nobody is in chain. Do you think that those fleets would be sitting in their chain if there were no null holes? Null holes cause people being in space and only that creates content. If you see a gang leaving through a null hole put a dictor there and catch them on their way back. If there was no null hole they wouldn't be in space and probably not even logged in. Besides... in certain parts of null those wormholes are the only threat left that ratters have to face.(well that and those super scary afk cloakers) Of course the carebears are pushing hard for their removal so that they can afk rat in safety. I, for one, know when I think of 1337 WH PVP the first thing that comes to mind is killing afktars. It might even be the definition in the wiki... Hidden Fremen liked your forum post: Jack Miton liked your forum post:
Jezza McWaffle No Vacancies 239	Posted - 2015.07.17 16:44:57 - [147] - Quote Yes a lack of null holes defintley means people will stop logging in... Happy to see those players leave W-space tbh. C6 Wormhole blog http://holelotofwaffle.wordpress.com/
Candi LeMew Isogen 5 34262	Posted - 2015.07.17 17:05:34 - [148] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: Candi LeMew wrote: Lloyd Roses wrote: random dooder #46. He can't be that random, surely. He seems to get it. You'd almost think he'd spent years in wormholes. no you're immediately excised from memory as soon as you leave You're still burned into mine like a branding iron to my buttocks. It hurts so good. Jack Hayson wrote: If there was no null hole they wouldn't be in space and probably not even logged in. Oh dear. You weren't supposed to say that, because it kinda supports what I was saying. Though aside from that, I haven't really seen anyone pushing for less nulls, though granted I don't frequent places where farming-types make suggestions. All I have seen is "wormholers" taken a little off-guard by a sudden drop in these nulls and getting all upset about it, almost as if nullsec content was the main reason they were in wormholes. Yet they keep saying these null holes are critical for them to leave w-space to find content because there's no one in w-space. Kinda see the pattern forming? In Anoikis .. Bob Is Always Watching ... "I been kicked out of better homes than this" - Rick James GÖ¬ -¦een -++¦-é w+¦-é a -ôew -ò-+ell-ò, -¦-à-é +¦ don'-é wal-+ w+¦-é a l+¦-+p
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1041	Posted - 2015.07.17 18:50:50 - [149] - Quote plenty of null exits was always a viable reason to live in WH for many people, so was farming null bears. Nothing wrong with that. Your dull arranged WH pvp wasnt everyones thing.
La loca Fappuccino The Power of Resolution 13	Posted - 2015.07.17 18:54:33 - [150] - Quote "There's something in the C4 chain." "Cool, let's go shoot it." "There's something out in the Low Sec." "Cool, let's go shoot it." "There's probably things out in Null somewhere." "Cool, let's go shoot it." I don't think I ever cared about where the content came from, just so long as it came. I've not noticed any shortage on the Wormhole side of pvp but that could just be my own personal experiences. Maybe looking inwards is a good step forward for Wormhole space. It might even grow if we gave more of a damn about who's living in the Wormholes next to us rather than if it leads to sov or not.

Jezza McWaffle ShipRekt 239	Posted - 2015.07.17 18:54:38 - [151] - Quote Tell us more about this arranged wormhole pvp you have no experience with. C6 Wormhole blog http://holelotofwaffle.wordpress.com/
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1041	Posted - 2015.07.17 19:09:59 - [152] - Quote Jezza McWaffle wrote: Tell us more about this arranged wormhole pvp you have no experience with. "wanna fight?" "sure bro, lets act as if we were at war and stuff..!" "yaayyyyyy \o/"
CivilWars Rolled Out Triumvirate. 300	Posted - 2015.07.17 19:28:07 - [153] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: plenty of null exits was always a viable reason to live in WH for many people, so was farming null bears. Nothing wrong with that. Your dull arranged WH pvp wasnt everyones thing. And farming boonies wasn't everyone's thing either. To each their own I guess. Hidden Fremen liked your forum post: Jack Miton liked your forum post:
CivilWars Rolled Out Triumvirate. 300	Posted - 2015.07.17 19:29:40 - [154] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: Jezza McWaffle wrote: Tell us more about this arranged wormhole pvp you have no experience with. "wanna fight?" "sure bro, lets act as if we were at war and stuff..!" "yaayyyyyy \o/" Hey, look at me, I can drop supers on atrons. This makes me one of the cool kids, right? Hidden Fremen liked your forum post: Jack Miton liked your forum post:
Necharo Rackham The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 58	Posted - 2015.07.17 19:50:39 - [155] - Quote Candi LeMew wrote: Sometimes. Null roam? Yeah!. On the plus side they were getting excited about some aspect of eve. I wouldn't be surprised if they logged in somewhat less often and for shorter periods of time. Most of the time hunting in w-space is like roaming in Aridia.
Pax Deltari R3d Fire 24	Posted - 2015.07.17 19:55:25 - [156] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: Jezza McWaffle wrote: Tell us more about this arranged wormhole pvp you have no experience with. "wanna fight?" "sure bro, lets act as if we were at war and stuff..!" "yaayyyyyy \o/" More like. "Hey **, Yeah you in the loki.. ** you!" "-Ü -ü-+-¦-¦-+-¦-+-+-Ä, -Å -¦-+-¦-+-Ç-Ä -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -+-+ -Ç-â-ü-ü-¦-+-¦." *Fight ensues. If allies on it escalates. "Gf.." "-í-é-Ç-¦-+-+-ï-¦ -É-+-¦-Ç-+-¦-¦-+-ü-¦-+-¦..."
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1239	Posted - 2015.07.17 20:08:08 - [157] - Quote CivilWars wrote: Robert Caldera wrote: Jezza McWaffle wrote: Tell us more about this arranged wormhole pvp you have no experience with. "wanna fight?" "sure bro, lets act as if we were at war and stuff..!" "yaayyyyyy \o/" Hey, look at me, I can drop supers on atrons. This makes me one of the cool kids, right? that was fun as **** until they got rid of drone assign If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Shilalasar Dead Sky Inc. 161	Posted - 2015.07.17 20:36:41 - [158] - Quote Jezza McWaffle wrote: Yes a lack of null holes defintley means people will stop logging in... Happy to see those players leave W-space tbh. We all know they won-¦t leave. They will just buy more chars, set them up in another rentercitizens hole and run another set of escalations every day. Then they will complain about the lack of content and evict someone to "get a fight". Necharo Rackham wrote: Most of the time hunting in w-space is like roaming in Aridia. Every big group blue to each other, dropping everything and their mother on any neutrals and then complaining about noone fighting? Sounds about right. The people who follow the rule "ratting and content are decided by your static" seem to have no problem with this change.
Necharo Rackham The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 59	Posted - 2015.07.17 20:45:08 - [159] - Quote Shilalasar wrote: Necharo Rackham wrote: Most of the time hunting in w-space is like roaming in Aridia. Every big group blue to each other, dropping everything and their mother on any neutrals and then complaining about noone fighting? Sounds about right. I think you underestimate how empty C5 space is generally. Go back three years, most groups weren't as big, there were more mid-sized corps on average and only VoC really roamed null all the time - and C5 space was still famine or feast (and mostly famine at that). There's a reason people started roaming null.
unimatrix0030 Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 200	Posted - 2015.07.18 08:28:00 - [160] - Quote CivilWars wrote: I will say it is good for w-space because it will encourage/force people to actually fight IN w-space. If there aren't enough people willing to actually fight IN w-space then they leave or quit. If you live in w-space, and someone who would never fight you anyway leaves then how exactly is it bad for you? If you get most/all of your PVP in null then log off in a J system that doesn't make you a wormholer FYI. It makes it less likely for people the find each other wich in a multiplayer environment is bad. And i think most w-space alliances usualy look at it this way: Is there pew in wh's to be found after at least 1 hours or more of scanning? Yes->go do pew No-> any low or null there with pew? ->yes go pew ->no start at the top or log of The less holes also makes it harder for the very few nullbears that do try wh's for to come in. It makes it less likely for wh-space alliances to go and mess with null. So were is the good side again? The opportunity cost to get pew has just gotton bigger. And all that because some null alliance was not able to adapt. No local in null sec would fix everything! Fleet warp proposal = the rubix cube is back into eve especialy the second part of the saying. Wh players need to adapt, null sec players get the rules changed.

Michael1995 Lazerhawks 186	Posted - 2015.07.18 08:51:51 - [161] - Quote unimatrix0030 wrote: It makes it less likely for people the find each other wich in a multiplayer environment is bad. And i think most w-space alliances usualy look at it this way: Is there pew in wh's to be found after at least 1 hours or more of scanning? Yes->go do pew No-> any low or null there with pew? ->yes go pew ->no start at the top or log of The less holes also makes it harder for the very few nullbears that do try wh's for to come in. It makes it less likely for wh-space alliances to go and mess with null. So were is the good side again? The opportunity cost to get pew has just gotton bigger. And all that because some null alliance was not able to adapt. Because ganking a single ship in w-space and then rolling within 5 minutes before the enemy can form up is superior to nullsec, where it is more likely that the enemy ship you're ganking has a cyno. OBVIOUSLY. Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks Citizens, E X P L O S I O N, Sleeper Social Club, Isogen 5, Sky Fighters. Join up for swag drake ganks with guardian fleets and chain rolling C1s for more dank drake ganks!
Cosmic Scanner Perkone Caldari State 102	Posted - 2015.07.18 14:28:09 - [162] - Quote I logged on yesterday for the first time in months, and did a load of scanning. Never found so little null secs. If i understand it correctly one of the reasons null wh's have been nerfed is because null sec entities used them much more for high sec logistics / access since the jump changes, and perhaps wh space did have a little too much access to null (was that actually a bad thing? null is meant to be the most dangerous space after all...). If that's the case, it would probably have made more sense to reduce the number of high sec wormholes a bit or a little of both imo rather than what seems to be a big nerf to both wh space and null sec. Cosmic Scanner / muu lufragga
Aladar Dangerface 13. Enigma Project 191	Posted - 2015.07.18 14:38:19 - [163] - Quote Cosmic Scanner wrote: I logged on yesterday for the first time in months, and did a load of scanning. Never found so little null secs. If i understand it correctly one of the reasons null wh's have been nerfed is because null sec entities used them much more for high sec logistics / access since the jump changes, and perhaps wh space did have a little too much access to null (was that actually a bad thing? null is meant to be the most dangerous space after all...). If that's the case, it would probably have made more sense to reduce the number of high sec wormholes a bit or a little of both imo rather than what seems to be a big nerf to both wh space and null sec. It was basically because pl were using whs to jump across to different areas of null sec for kills, thus avoiding the restrictions made with the phoebe jump changes, and some other null secers were mad about it. While I don't mind what pl were doing (emergent game play anyone?), I do hope that it will stop folks in whs just jumping straight into null to find fights and keep them in trier chains. I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.
CivilWars Rolled Out Triumvirate. 300	Posted - 2015.07.18 15:33:14 - [164] - Quote unimatrix0030 wrote: CivilWars wrote: I will say it is good for w-space because it will encourage/force people to actually fight IN w-space. If there aren't enough people willing to actually fight IN w-space then they leave or quit. If you live in w-space, and someone who would never fight you anyway leaves then how exactly is it bad for you? If you get most/all of your PVP in null then log off in a J system that doesn't make you a wormholer FYI. It makes it less likely for people the find each other wich in a multiplayer environment is bad. And i think most w-space alliances usualy look at it this way: Is there pew in wh's to be found after at least 1 hours or more of scanning? Yes->go do pew No-> any low or null there with pew? ->yes go pew ->no start at the top or log of The less holes also makes it harder for the very few nullbears that do try wh's for to come in. It makes it less likely for wh-space alliances to go and mess with null. So were is the good side again? The opportunity cost to get pew has just gotton bigger. And all that because some null alliance was not able to adapt. This is the WH section. We should be concerned about how these changes negatively affect people who colonize w-space, not 00 players. How does closing 00 holes make it less likely for people to find each other? It is so rare to go WH > null > WH that I would almost call it non-existent. Yes, I know it does happen, but not near enough that this change will impact the number of fights WH inhabitants get against each other by using a chain like this. On the other hand if that corp that typically scans a chain and takes the first decent null exit they find to go gank ratting carriers is now forced to stay in chain aren't your odds of finding them increased, and not decreased? Hidden Fremen liked your forum post: Jack Miton liked your forum post:
Cosmic Scanner Perkone Caldari State 102	Posted - 2015.07.18 15:55:16 - [165] - Quote CivilWars wrote: It is so rare to go WH > null > WH that I would almost call it non-existent. From my time in noho, more than often we found fights through those very holes because quite a lot of null secs had connections to C5 / C6 space. Less null sec wormholes means less wormholes in general (and variety of wormholes), meaning less opportunity and so directly nerfs content for wormhole space. Cosmic Scanner / muu lufragga
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1679	Posted - 2015.07.19 11:46:15 - [166] - Quote In true anecdotal manner, it's getting a LOT harder to get a decent chain out of our home, which has a null static. Never used to have to go that far afield to find another null hole out somewhere useful, now it's a case of rolling like a fiend to get something usable.
GizzyBoy Aperture Harmonics K162 161	Posted - 2015.07.19 12:14:04 - [167] - Quote afkalt wrote: In true anecdotal manner, it's getting a LOT harder to get a decent chain out of our home, which has a null static. Never used to have to go that far afield to find another null hole out somewhere useful, now it's a case of rolling like a fiend to get something usable. My Idea of a decent chain is one with active people in it some vitals and instrumentals, possibly also a Hs , Any decent nulls where like a bonus.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1679	Posted - 2015.07.19 12:18:42 - [168] - Quote You misunderstand, we have a static null. The only semi-reliable way to get places was to go out there and look for other holes. I must've bounced through 30-40 systems today and found two holes. Not that they were "bad" sigs, just none.
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery Prolapse. 2593	Posted - 2015.07.19 14:11:24 - [169] - Quote Force wormholers to stay in wormholes and find fights against each other? How many fights can we organise amongst ourselves? Who's up for a 5 vs 5 or 10 vs 10 or X vs X (ship size) tournament, e-honour totes not bringing slaves/snakes/crystals whoops is that neutral in system truly my boosting alt? Hahaha barely noticed. Great advances make benefit game! Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA ~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1043	Posted - 2015.07.19 18:43:58 - [170] - Quote lets take bets whether people will try to find WH fights no matter what, or simply leave to do something else.

Ziirn Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 47	Posted - 2015.07.19 21:14:54 - [171] - Quote Voicing opinion that the N432 and Z142 nerf is way too hard. You can go scan for hours in null not finding any c5's or I have just been stupidly unlucky a few days in a row. Give me my whs back! :'(
Chitsa Jason Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 1337	Posted - 2015.07.19 21:31:07 - [172] - Quote Nerf is defo too hard. Right now we have 9 C5/C6 whs in our chain now and not a single null. Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
Michael1995 Lazerhawks 187	Posted - 2015.07.20 03:38:49 - [173] - Quote Chitsa Jason wrote: Nerf is defo too hard. Right now we have 9 C5/C6 whs in our chain now and not a single null. Well it's obvious you're meant to go and try fight anyone in those 9 systems, if there is only towers it's probably time to start some evictions! Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks Citizens, E X P L O S I O N, Sleeper Social Club, Isogen 5, Sky Fighters. Join up for swag drake ganks with guardian fleets and chain rolling C1s for more dank drake ganks!
calaretu Honestly We didnt know Unsettled. 362	Posted - 2015.07.20 18:50:19 - [174] - Quote Seeing the reports over a period of time that n432 is nowhere to be found anymore is troubling. Maybe increase the amount of z142 instead ccp? That keeps the nerf for nullsec people but hurts c5 less. And I have no illusion that lack of content make people search harder. It just makes them play less or move to a place where its easier accessible. Both can hurt wspace over all classes. ~Bringer of happiness http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/ .ORLY is recruiting
permion Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 23	Posted - 2015.07.20 21:00:17 - [175] - Quote As someone scanning from null to get back to high sec/thera... WH's are now rare enough that I'm traveling a bunch more to do things that were previously simple, like restocking ammo or dropping off loot... Essentially crossing about 16 systems to get a useful signature to get back to low/null, and some extra time to go 2 WH's deep on the other holes. That was the worst case, previously I would have found it kind of obnoxious to have traveled 6 or more systems. IMO this WH rate isn't bad enough to affect the few cases of logistics. But it's bad enough to make it so that no one in null needs to worry about what's coming out of them WHs.. ________________ Then again I've only needed to leave NS 3 times since the update. Mostly to drop off loot rather than pick stuff up. So not statistically significant, but with other complaints it's "yes". edit: converted a TBH to an IMO
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1686	Posted - 2015.07.21 10:06:48 - [176] - Quote permion wrote: As someone scanning from null to get back to high sec/thera... WH's are now rare enough that I'm traveling a bunch more to do things that were previously simple, like restocking ammo or dropping off loot... Essentially crossing about 16 systems to get a useful signature to get back to low/null, and some extra time to go 2 WH's deep on the other holes. That was the worst case, previously I would have found it kind of obnoxious to have traveled 6 or more systems. IMO this WH rate isn't bad enough to affect the few cases of logistics. But it's bad enough to make it so that no one in null needs to worry about what's coming out of them WHs.. ________________ Then again I've only needed to leave NS 3 times since the update. Mostly to drop off loot rather than pick stuff up. So not statistically significant, but with other complaints it's "yes". edit: converted a TBH to an IMO edit 2: Essentially logistics holes from null to elsewhere used to be common enough that I would say "F that I'm not traveling that many jumps to get to Thera (and find a new logistic chain/hole)", to "Meh looks like I'm traveling that many jumps to Thera (maybe even maybe I should just log out and see if thera connects tomorrow)." This is pretty much in line with my experiences over the weekend. Perhaps it is simply RNG being RNG coupled with being aware of a change causing mild prejudice. End of the world? Not really. Pain in the arse...yup. It's significantly more isolating for the static null dwellers.
GizzyBoy Aperture Harmonics K162 162	Posted - 2015.07.21 10:34:55 - [177] - Quote calaretu wrote: Seeing the reports over a period of time that n432 is nowhere to be found anymore is troubling. Maybe increase the amount of z142 instead ccp? That keeps the nerf for nullsec people but hurts c5 less. And I have no illusion that lack of content make people search harder. It just makes them play less or move to a place where its easier accessible. Both can hurt wspace over all classes. Found 2 n432's one was eol, the other one lead to an empty wh with everything eol but did have an out going null. so yes they still are there, needs more data or more people to actually scan chains. OK so in 1/2 hour found 4 x c5's in one half of a region Scanned about 20 systems tonight. 2 null - c5's 1 c2/3 to null (was eol) 2 c5 > null's But because randomness we need more data tbh. not certain if null > wh / kspace is based on x holes per region or if its spread over all null systems etc.
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1046	Posted - 2015.07.21 11:06:06 - [178] - Quote maybe Daimian Mercer can give us more data, in the mean time tripwire should have a good sample size for a statistic meaningful conclusion.
Necharo Rackham The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 61	Posted - 2015.07.21 13:40:52 - [179] - Quote GizzyBoy wrote: Found 2 n432's one was eol, the other one lead to an empty wh with everything eol but did have an out going null. so yes they still are there, needs more data or more people to actually scan chains. There's another factor on incoming holes into w-space given the 16hour spawn time. They'll tend to be much more scarce in a window some time after the quietest times in null, as there will be fewer people scanning during this time.
Mineral Ore Armored Apocalypse The Ancestors 11	Posted - 2015.07.21 14:46:44 - [180] - Quote Necharo Rackham wrote: GizzyBoy wrote: Found 2 n432's one was eol, the other one lead to an empty wh with everything eol but did have an out going null. so yes they still are there, needs more data or more people to actually scan chains. There's another factor on incoming holes into w-space given the 16hour spawn time. They'll tend to be much more scarce in a window some time after the quietest times in null, as there will be fewer people scanning during this time. So basically, latenight nullbears are safer than ever! Great removal of content for Wh dwellers.

Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1046	Posted - 2015.07.21 16:06:57 - [181] - Quote yes, for deep null bears WH change brings a lot of additional safety. C5 wormholes were basically one of the few last potent sources of danger to ratting carriers, since you will unlikely be able to bring a force to deep null from C3 or any weaker wormhole, strong enough to burn down a cap in a meaningful amout of time until hostile support or more caps drop on field.
Justin Cody Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 297	Posted - 2015.07.22 04:24:06 - [182] - Quote Aladar Dangerface wrote: Cosmic Scanner wrote: I logged on yesterday for the first time in months, and did a load of scanning. Never found so little null secs. If i understand it correctly one of the reasons null wh's have been nerfed is because null sec entities used them much more for high sec logistics / access since the jump changes, and perhaps wh space did have a little too much access to null (was that actually a bad thing? null is meant to be the most dangerous space after all...). If that's the case, it would probably have made more sense to reduce the number of high sec wormholes a bit or a little of both imo rather than what seems to be a big nerf to both wh space and null sec. It was basically because pl were using whs to jump across to different areas of null sec for kills, thus avoiding the restrictions made with the phoebe jump changes, and some other null secers were mad about it. While I don't mind what pl were doing (emergent game play anyone?), I do hope that it will stop folks in whs just jumping straight into null to find fights and keep them in trier chains. 1) They weren't "getting around phoebe jump changes" as they were using sub caps. You can at most move 3 caps through a wormhole with some sub-cap room in between the first two caps and the last one that shutters the hole. You know nothing. 2) Null seccers are just as risk averse as high seccers and they got a CSM Scumbag to convince the devs to nerf an otherwise valid game system. Not only that it was nerfed into the ground. 3) claiming sharing information is abuse is like saying setting standings to your neighbors is abuse. 4) Your hopes are stupid. Please continue afk ratting in ishtars, gilas and various carriers.
Justin Cody Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 297	Posted - 2015.07.22 04:25:40 - [183] - Quote corbexx wrote: Axloth Okiah wrote: I'm curious whether the horrific situation I'm seeing in C5 space is just me being biased or not. So please post here what you see in your chains, how many C5s, C6s, how many nulls, what state, do they last, do they close in your face, etc. How **** we really are? we live in c5/c5 and currently have 8 C5s, 2 C6s and one null... Dont kid yourself, noone will read this, nothing will get reverted, but it would be nice to have a bigger picture and a representative sample of the pit of ** we got thrown into (again). I read it. I've spoken to a few c5 groups and asked if they could record the number of c5's and incoming and out going nulls but here is a handy space to put it. I've also spoke to Daimian mercer about if he can get some data from trip wire. You're CSM - get CCP to give you the data! They're the ones that should be tracking it. Seriously.
unimatrix0030 Viperfleet Inc. Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle 201	Posted - 2015.07.22 04:58:57 - [184] - Quote Plex prices will go to the roof with these additional safetys for null sec. No local in null sec would fix everything! Fleet warp proposal = the rubix cube is back into eve especialy the second part of the saying. Wh players need to adapt, null sec players get the rules changed.
Barrogh Habalu Forever Winter Absolute Zero. 943	Posted - 2015.07.22 05:32:21 - [185] - Quote unimatrix0030 wrote: Plex prices will go to the roof with these additional safetys for null sec. 15mil X-types anyone? Heh. Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
GizzyBoy Aperture Harmonics K162 162	Posted - 2015.07.22 06:10:14 - [186] - Quote no null sec isnt safer at all, what with the poliferation in blops and what not. Id rather say c5 is even safer than null to rat in tbh.
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1046	Posted - 2015.07.22 08:26:09 - [187] - Quote GizzyBoy wrote: no null sec isnt safer at all, what with the poliferation in blops and what not. Id rather say c5 is even safer than null to rat in tbh. blops is one risk factor C5 was the other one got basically removed, yet you tell us null ratting hasnt become safer?? I see a huge loophole in your logics..
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1694	Posted - 2015.07.22 09:25:00 - [188] - Quote Justin Cody wrote: corbexx wrote: Axloth Okiah wrote: I'm curious whether the horrific situation I'm seeing in C5 space is just me being biased or not. So please post here what you see in your chains, how many C5s, C6s, how many nulls, what state, do they last, do they close in your face, etc. How **** we really are? we live in c5/c5 and currently have 8 C5s, 2 C6s and one null... Dont kid yourself, noone will read this, nothing will get reverted, but it would be nice to have a bigger picture and a representative sample of the pit of ** we got thrown into (again). I read it. I've spoken to a few c5 groups and asked if they could record the number of c5's and incoming and out going nulls but here is a handy space to put it. I've also spoke to Daimian mercer about if he can get some data from trip wire. You're CSM - get CCP to give you the data! They're the ones that should be tracking it. Seriously. This goes does make a very fair, if blunt point.
Aladar Dangerface 13. Enigma Project 191	Posted - 2015.07.22 12:30:17 - [189] - Quote Justin Cody wrote: Aladar Dangerface wrote: Cosmic Scanner wrote: I logged on yesterday for the first time in months, and did a load of scanning. Never found so little null secs. If i understand it correctly one of the reasons null wh's have been nerfed is because null sec entities used them much more for high sec logistics / access since the jump changes, and perhaps wh space did have a little too much access to null (was that actually a bad thing? null is meant to be the most dangerous space after all...). If that's the case, it would probably have made more sense to reduce the number of high sec wormholes a bit or a little of both imo rather than what seems to be a big nerf to both wh space and null sec. It was basically because pl were using whs to jump across to different areas of null sec for kills, thus avoiding the restrictions made with the phoebe jump changes, and some other null secers were mad about it. While I don't mind what pl were doing (emergent game play anyone?), I do hope that it will stop folks in whs just jumping straight into null to find fights and keep them in trier chains. 1) They weren't "getting around phoebe jump changes" as they were using sub caps. You can at most move 3 caps through a wormhole with some sub-cap room in between the first two caps and the last one that shutters the hole. You know nothing. 2) Null seccers are just as risk averse as high seccers and they got a CSM Scumbag to convince the devs to nerf an otherwise valid game system. Not only that it was nerfed into the ground. 3) claiming sharing information is abuse is like saying setting standings to your neighbors is abuse. 4) Your hopes are stupid. Please continue afk ratting in ishtars, gilas and various carriers. Woah woah woah little angry man. Take a step back and read what i wrote. I actually had no problem with what was happening before this change. I do also know quite a bit, especially about wh mechanics since i've lived in wh space for 3+ years (maybe you should look into who you are talking to since its clear you thought i was some null-sec scrub). That being said, the jump changes did not just effect caps, bridging of sub-caps was also nefred. PL realised this and adjusted by using whs + sub caps to move about the map instead. CCP have clearly stated that they wanted people in null to fight more locally but i do agree that it does look like CCP was swayed to make these changes by a CSM member which is kinda **** imo. I'm going repeat this since you clearly can't read things thoroughly I did/do not have an issue with people using whs to move about the map, it was a good use of the resources available.and i'm sure a lot of work was put into scanning chains and finding exits. Bitching isn't gona change it so people will just have to adapt. Dunno what your talking about when saying ''claiming sharing information is abuse is like saying setting standings to your neighbors is abuse'' since i never even mentioned sharing info. Last point, my hopes for wh space are not stupid, optimistic yes, stupid no. However the change to null entrances/exits to wh space gives you two options, 1) leave wh space and go to HS/LS/Null or 2) spend more time in your chain to either find a null hole or find a fight in wh space. Now my question is are the majority of wh groups going to leave wh space because null sec holes are less abundant? i doubt it, so i'll hopefully see more folks in the chain. I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.**
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1214	Posted - 2015.07.22 13:17:56 - [190] - Quote Justin Cody wrote: 2) Null seccers are just as risk averse as high seccers and they got a CSM Scumbag to convince the devs to nerf an otherwise valid game system. Not only that it was nerfed into the ground. Lowsec people and wormhole people are totally not risk-averse... The only person I ever found not being straight risk-averse is Tim, and he's rather naive instead He let's jump into that hostile fleet without any chance to even dent someone's tank unless all their logi DC at once said no one, ever.

GizzyBoy Aperture Harmonics K162 162	Posted - 2015.07.22 13:50:26 - [191] - Quote Scanned another 50 null systems, plenty n432's I think what's happening is more people live in less systems and so they dont bother scanning outside there area, and thus the ones that do spawn dont open up till they are eol. I can say most of the wh's that I jumped into from null, (about 15) all but 1 was occupied in any form. I demand more people in wh's so I can dunk them from null! It could be less farmers or people are active in wh's, so just like sites desirable wh types are piling up some where. (ie all the empty systems like black holes) For my stats im scanning from null from just one region mostly. Whilst I whore all the Data & relic's. Personally it feels about right x wh's per null system, if you where scanning from null you'd want to find more combats. data & relics than wh's, it seemed before the patch I can almost gaurenty no place is null was more than 5 gate/ wh jumps to hs
Pax Deltari R3d Fire 24	Posted - 2015.07.22 14:21:02 - [192] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: The only person I ever found not being straight risk-averse is Tim, and he's rather naive instead He let's jump into that hostile fleet without any chance to even dent someone's tank unless all their logi DC at once said no one, ever. The great thing about a corp culture not centered around killboard stats.
Louis Catcher Haywire. 13	Posted - 2015.07.23 01:57:37 - [193] - Quote At first, I was opposed to this change as being an au tz corp we find a lot of our content out in null. However me personally and most of our corp members would always rather have a wh fight then a ns fight. Hopefully this will allow for that. Problem as I see it is not ns connections it is that not enough people live in wh space.
Justin Cody Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 300	Posted - 2015.07.23 06:55:06 - [194] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: Justin Cody wrote: 2) Null seccers are just as risk averse as high seccers and they got a CSM Scumbag to convince the devs to nerf an otherwise valid game system. Not only that it was nerfed into the ground. Lowsec people and wormhole people are totally not risk-averse... The only person I ever found not being straight risk-averse is Tim, and he's rather naive instead He let's jump into that hostile fleet without any chance to even dent someone's tank unless all their logi DC at once said no one, ever. I didn't say anything about low sec. I love low sec. There are plenty of risk-averse WH dwellers as well that have an advantage from these changes and I don't like that either. I want more null dwellers coming in and making a challenge. I don't know who Tim is or why you're referencing him. Reading some of these replies makes me want to put my head through a wall. Holding a single thought for a period of time beyond 2 seconds must be painful for some people.
Justin Cody Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 300	Posted - 2015.07.23 07:00:47 - [195] - Quote CivilWars wrote: Recruits or "blues" everything they can. Evicts everyone they can't recruit or blue. Complains there is no content in their "area". Is this the null sub-forum, or wormhole sub-forum? I may be lost. Maybe we're just beta-testing another game system for CCP again tin foil I mean why else would you modify an existing game system with zero play testing or period for feedback? We don't even have baseline data for the "right" amount of nulls or how long null's should last. The number 16 was picked out of a hat as far as I can tell and whatever the spawn rates are now must also be equally random since there is no dev blog or explanation other than...null bears got butthurt while ratting in carriers irresponsibly. We have now fixed that problem...back to your anoms.
GizzyBoy Aperture Harmonics K162 165	Posted - 2015.07.23 15:48:10 - [196] - Quote scanned half another region before DT, about 50 systems 1 null - c6 went to a shattered system. 5 null > c5's 1 null > LS 4 null > c1-c3 2 null - nulls about 10 K162 4 of which where from C5 space Half the null - wspace where un initiated when I warped in. which leads me to conclude as far as null - Wspace wh's go Null sec basicly is not scanning as much or completely ignoring wh's Based on my logs, Averaging 1 in 5 systems having a WH, one in 20 might have 2 wh's And I can say the residents arnt rolling incoming our out going connections because there dosnt really appear to be any, Or no one is scanning and jumping into wh's Id need some help to scan a whole region and get a snap shot at a specific time of day (basicly autz) because its a) less active b) No one really rolls things around then. If you get the locals all riled up, dont be ducking down any dead end pipes expecting to escape out of a random wh, You may just not find an easy way out.. I actually feel this is roughly the right level of null - w space currently. and to a certain extent if null wants to engage in Wspace brawls there initiative to open connections should be a part of the equation. People might splurge about how people are super safe in null or what ever, But that's frankly bull Sh1t. any one can literally camp what ever system they want in k-space when ever they want, with nearly what ever ship type or fleet comp they desire. To get to specific w-space systems Is not impossible, But its many orders of magnitude higher and harder. Thoughts, I wish I had scanned some regions/ The same region in null prior to the changes so I could get some baselines prior to changes, all I have to go on is some randoms splurging its harder, but with no hard numbers to back that up. or what harder even constitutes in numbers of connections wise. (Most groups I talked to dont trust certain scanning system providers) and are well aware of whom and who both uses and owns them. CCP really needs to make an effort to build or accommodate an in-game sig / mapping bm sharing tool as a trusted party to hosting said data in some secure kind of way that only lets the right people on a alliance / coalition level access it. Dank isk per hour! Also I made roughly 4 bill in null doing data /relics in a bout 5 hours of work scanning things I would be scanning anyway but basicly ignoring in w sauce.
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1046	Posted - 2015.07.25 11:28:02 - [197] - Quote GizzyBoy wrote: People might splurge about how people are super safe in null or what ever, But that's frankly bull Sh1t. any one can literally camp what ever system they want in k-space when ever they want, with nearly what ever ship type or fleet comp they desire. no, if something is bull**** then its your statement. Removing a source of threat like in case of nerfed C5 spawn rates and "WH highway" means in other words areas of space become safER. Because if you would remove something, which doesnt affect safety, wouldnt be a threat, which you really cant say to C5 pre-nerf. Camping systems with whatever ships is a completely unrelated case. Its like you were saying suicide ganking isnt a threat for highsec player corps, because well you could always wardec player corps and exert thread to those corps. Wardecs are nice and you always can do it, however it doesnt mean suicide ganking isnt a thing and could be actually removed.
GizzyBoy Aperture Harmonics K162 165	Posted - 2015.07.25 11:53:53 - [198] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: GizzyBoy wrote: People might splurge about how people are super safe in null or what ever, But that's frankly bull Sh1t. any one can literally camp what ever system they want in k-space when ever they want, with nearly what ever ship type or fleet comp they desire. no, if something is bull**** then its your statement. Removing a source of threat like in case of nerfed C5 spawn rates and "WH highway" means in other words areas of space become safER. Because if you would remove something, which doesnt affect safety, wouldnt be a threat, which you really cant say to C5 pre-nerf. Camping systems with whatever ships is a completely unrelated case. Its like you were saying suicide ganking isnt a threat for highsec player corps, because well you could always wardec player corps and exert thread to those corps. Wardecs are nice and you always can do it, however it doesnt mean suicide ganking isnt a thing and could be actually removed. I scanned a whole region multiple times nearly uncontested, my only real threat where the people who didn't live in the region camping choke points. There was no lack of incoming or outgoing wh's. null to j-space where almost never initiated untill I landed. If anything weekends seem to have more wh's in general than weekdays. once your in null sec your ability to move around apart from a few choke points is pretty much uncontested. and apart from a few groups like up in deklan, you can pretty much travel where you please. Thus I would have to aggre with you, Null sec has never been safer for roamers
Kalel Nimrott The Dingus Coalition 1169	Posted - 2015.07.25 16:34:23 - [199] - Quote https://zkillboard.com/kill/48068799/ I was there in j114353 watching them moving upchain when they tackled him. So, I was wrong. You can pretty much fack someone up with small ships after all. "I'm the Master!, of suspense so Intense, No defense against Hitchcock once he presents!"
Tsukino Stareine Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class 1256	Posted - 2015.07.25 22:14:35 - [200] - Quote thanks for these useless medium ship holes to null really appreciate them.

Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1047	Posted - 2015.07.26 19:39:40 - [201] - Quote I dont know how the f*** one can argue that the nerf doesnt improve 0.0 security as it was the whole reason for the nerf actually, to start with. No you shouldnt gank carriers in ratting areas, no you shouldnt attack people or 3rd party fight through wormholes on the other side of the map.
GizzyBoy Aperture Harmonics K162 166	Posted - 2015.07.27 02:12:31 - [202] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: I dont know how the f*** one can argue that the nerf doesnt improve 0.0 security as it was the whole reason for the nerf actually, to start with. No you shouldnt gank carriers in ratting areas, no you shouldnt attack people or 3rd party fight through wormholes on the other side of the map. Your implying it could ever really be safe and it cant, and it most certainly isn't. but show me where ratting carriers are no longer being killed, and roaming gangs are not operating. you know with some kind of substantiate numbers to back up your statement not your "feels". by observation, this weekend i watched nearly every major wh group pass through one of the regions i was scanning. sky fighters, sibas faye and co, ssc hk chris mas solo, 3 other random groups from wh's I never herd of before. hell even a w-space guy roaming null for data sites All passing through one or two regions within an hour or 2 of each other. things they didn't seem to do, shoot each other even tho they more or less are the perfect gangs to engage each other with.
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1047	Posted - 2015.07.27 06:57:57 - [203] - Quote noone said ever anything about "safe", but safer. Why, has been explained to you multiple times, also was it the main reason for the nerf, stop acting stupid.
Aladar Dangerface 13. Enigma Project 201	Posted - 2015.07.27 10:18:36 - [204] - Quote Why the ** is this thread still going? What's done is done, deal with it. I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.**
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1260	Posted - 2015.07.27 13:00:05 - [205] - Quote never let the dream die If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Aladar Dangerface 13. Enigma Project 202	Posted - 2015.07.27 13:33:18 - [206] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: never let the dream die The dead horse its thataway ---------------> I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1264	Posted - 2015.07.27 13:38:05 - [207] - Quote I am INSIDE the dead horse right now If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Aladar Dangerface 13. Enigma Project 202	Posted - 2015.07.27 13:43:29 - [208] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: I am INSIDE the dead horse right now Slutt (had to add the extra t) I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1264	Posted - 2015.07.27 13:53:18 - [209] - Quote nah it's some planet Hoth ish. You can call me luke If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Aladar Dangerface 13. Enigma Project 202	Posted - 2015.07.27 14:03:32 - [210] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: nah it's some planet Hoth ish. You can call me luke these are not the wh changes you're looking for I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode ISD Community Communications Liaisons 6210	Posted - 2015.07.27 19:34:42 - [211] - Quote Removed some off topic posts. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1265	Posted - 2015.07.27 20:07:29 - [212] - Quote ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote: Removed some off topic posts. why does it feel like a lot of my posts got removed If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
calaretu Honestly We didnt know Unsettled. 365	Posted - 2015.07.29 19:18:34 - [213] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote: Removed some off topic posts. why does it feel like a lot of my posts got removed You are the very definition of off topic ~Bringer of happiness http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/ .ORLY is recruiting
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1274	Posted - 2015.07.29 20:56:10 - [214] - Quote nah man I bring legit issues to the forefront of the conversation If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Paul Vashar Periphery Bound New Signature 54	Posted - 2015.07.29 21:49:37 - [215] - Quote calaretu wrote: Andrew Jester wrote: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote: Removed some off topic posts. why does it feel like a lot of my posts got removed You are the very definition of off topic Should start his own store and compete with hot topic. I'd shop at Off Topic. Edit Bonus: CCP wouldn't be in charge
Aladar Dangerface 13. Enigma Project 202	Posted - 2015.07.29 22:23:31 - [216] - Quote Andrew Jester wrote: nah man I bring legit issues to the forefront of the conversation Well i was talking **, not surprised mine got removed I don't need twitter. I'm already following you.**
Leeluvv Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 31	Posted - 2015.08.03 19:03:39 - [217] - Quote Not that any of idiots slinging mud at each other will take any notice of my post, but K-space dwellers posting on this thread, please take note of the following: 1. If you live in Null Sec, the only valid comment you have on this change is the impact to your game in Null Sec Any comment you have on the impact to WHers is personal opinion, so keep it to yourself, because we don't care. 2. If you live in Low Sec, tell us how this change impacts Low Sec. i.e. Shut up, we don't care. 3. If you live in Hi Sec, tell us how this change impacts Low Sec. i.e. Shut up, we don't care.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1291	Posted - 2015.08.03 19:30:19 - [218] - Quote Leeluvv wrote: quoted the good parts of your post also glad some rando SSC shitter speaks for all of WH space If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Pax Deltari R3d Fire 26	Posted - 2015.08.03 20:01:42 - [219] - Quote Doesn't she know that you're the only shitter that can speak for all of wormhole space.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1291	Posted - 2015.08.03 20:08:08 - [220] - Quote like I'd waste my time doing things for ungratefuls~ If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

Rat Scout Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 32	Posted - 2015.08.04 03:20:53 - [221] - Quote Null sec problems how you gona solve 'em? Try the wormhole forums? YES that will work.
Help They GotMyMoney Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 31	Posted - 2015.08.04 12:40:12 - [222] - Quote Leeluvv wrote: Not that any of the idiots slinging mud at each other will take any notice of my post, but K-space dwellers posting on this thread, please take note of the following: 1. If you live in Null Sec, the only valid comment you have on this change is the impact to your game in Null Sec Any comment you have on the impact to WHers is personal opinion, so keep it to yourself, because we don't care. 2. If you live in Low Sec, tell us how this change impacts Low Sec. i.e. Shut up, we don't care. 3. If you live in Hi Sec, tell us how this change impacts Low Sec. i.e. Shut up, we don't care. Didn't your alliance move to Rancer? Post with you're main. Lazerhawks: ¨we are 5x better organized and we win by skill not always because of numbers¨
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1296	Posted - 2015.08.04 12:57:39 - [223] - Quote Rat Scout wrote: Null sec problems how you gona solve 'em? Try the wormhole forums? YES that will work. It's working for me so far If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Samantha Elroy Atztech Inc. Ixtab. 29	Posted - 2015.08.07 09:34:23 - [224] - Quote This castration of nulls in Wormholespace is killing one of the last content we have currently. There is like a 8:1 ratio of Highclass-WH:Nullsec. And when you find 1-3 nulls in your chain its mostly end of lifetime or a crap frigsize wormhole. From all of the 512 C5 Wormholes (exclude Shattered) are like 100 ? populated, and from these 100 there might be 50 'active' and willed to fight. So tbh, do you, corbexx and the devs really want us to quit eve, go more inactive, or settle to kspace ? what is the goal behind this cut ? is it the salty tears of nullblocks that there was a special way to get more support in fights via null-null connection ? Or the tears from the farmers that get so massive dunked by hk,ssc,lzhx, atztech and many other parties last time ? If thats the story behind its totally not cool and you should shame yourself to represent any longer in the wormhole-section. i know this was rude but i think im not the only one with this kind of thinking. If im totally wrong excuse me and correct me in a legit way. Yes my english sucks, but i dont give a **** :)
B0T0 X Legion Against Probes 25	Posted - 2015.08.07 10:29:28 - [225] - Quote Samantha Elroy wrote: what is the goal behind this cut ? To move corporation with main content is null to Thera or null itself? 01010111 00101101 01110011 01110000 01100001 01100011 01100101 00101100 00100000 01100010 01100101 01110011 01110100 00100000 01110011 01110000 01100001 01100011 01100101 00100001
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1047	Posted - 2015.08.07 11:04:43 - [226] - Quote Leeluvv wrote: Not that any of the idiots slinging mud at each other will take any notice of my post, but K-space dwellers posting on this thread, please take note of the following: 1. If you live in Null Sec, the only valid comment you have on this change is the impact to your game in Null Sec Any comment you have on the impact to WHers is personal opinion, so keep it to yourself, because we don't care. 2. If you live in Low Sec, tell us how this change impacts Low Sec. i.e. Shut up, we don't care. 3. If you live in Hi Sec, tell us how this change impacts Hi Sec. i.e. Shut up, we don't care. 1) everything you post on forums, regardless of your home sec, is an opinion no more. 2) dont speak for everyone, other WHers might have a diff. opinion of yours - you arent representive of whole WH playerbase.
Leeluvv Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 33	Posted - 2015.08.08 20:35:05 - [227] - Quote Robert Caldera wrote: [2) dont speak for everyone, other WHers might have a diff. opinion of yours - you arent representive of whole WH playerbase. I didn't express an opinion on Aegis at all, so your post confuses me. I'm more than happy to listen to how people are 'affected' by the changes. As for your quoted point, how can a WHer have a different to me, when I haven't posted an opinion? 1/10 Troll harder.
Axloth Okiah Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 763	Posted - 2015.08.09 08:22:23 - [228] - Quote B0T0 wrote: Samantha Elroy wrote: what is the goal behind this cut ? To move corporation with main content is null to Thera or null itself? No, the goal was to make living in null safer by curbing the travel options offered by wormholes. This was primarily targeted at PL, reavers and such. Wormholers were simply ignored, as noone gives a **** about how it impacts us and noone fought it before the change was made. We are just collateral damage. SSC Brokering Service
Samantha Elroy Atztech Inc. Ixtab. 30	Posted - 2015.08.10 09:03:51 - [229] - Quote Axloth Okiah wrote: No, the goal was to make living in null safer by curbing the travel options offered by wormholes. This was primarily targeted at PL, reavers and such. Wormholers were simply ignored, as noone gives a **** about how it impacts us and noone fought it before the change was made. We are just collateral damage. Sad but true bud.
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1316	Posted - 2015.08.10 13:07:30 - [230] - Quote :3 If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy

RcTamiya SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart. 0	Posted - 2015.08.12 10:16:06 - [231] - Quote POV c2 NS/C5 static we noticed a lot more ratters beeing careless and caught offguard when chainrolling our ns static for rattingsystems, either directly or in hotdroprange so yes, definetly a change in behaviour is noticeable, also the fact that nullbears are having 25 ppl in system, one of them is caught by 5 ppl and gets killed, the other ~ 19 ppl cry in local and ask in intel for help. Spyreports have shown, that most FCs rather stand down than fight ANY w-space entities, however few weeks ago we frequently saw CTA-pings for a 10 ppl gang, especially the regions of providence and vale of the silent became VERY blobby lately, goons ... well 120 ppl scap supported slowcatfleet vs 5 cruisers "gf" :), most entities i know dodge deklein and leave those bored noobs alone (they cry for no content as well ....) Nullsecs in chain have been rare these days, but still we have several useable connections every day, excluding our own static. Also frigholes aint useless, T3d-doctrine, anyone?! Svipul 400 dps, fit correctly has nice buffer, good speed and tackle, add 1-2 hyenas and logifrigs, HK,LZHX and other groups have the numbers for those kind of fleets, for smaller groups -> spidertank. just FYI, those groups crying for no content are usually those kind of groups evicting smaller groups and/or bringing a lot bigger nubmers than the other groups can't take on at that given moment, thise rule applies in entire new eden and is not specific for wspace. W-Space mechanics are entirely fine, nobody forces you to live in a c5/c5, the content you find there has been build up by the ppl, not the mechanics, c5 magnetars are a good example of how to create empty wormholes with no content, every single HK and Lazerhawks Member does know what i am talking about, right ? :) C5 Pulsars and Red Giants aint that much different, dura lexx is a great example of risk aversion gank-only pvp and farming a lot, while offering low amount of content for the other entities. Could go on like that, hero/solodread-farming anyone ? Oh wait, that's 00bear-Supercapital-FC-Business, farming himself rich (i could name several here including J#) Solo-Carrier-Farming? Also know some ppl from 00-entitites doing this a lot, it even happens in c4 and c3 often enough to be worth a note. So what are we missing in reality? Big groups aint doing anything against those risk averse farmes, they don't offer you any content, however an eviction of them will 1. increase t3-material prices in a long term (if farmes getting hunted aggressively) 2. create content :) Instead those entities allow renters or have agreements of not seeding into each others farms for logofftraps (which is also content, QEX used to be very good at this and i have huge respect of max's ability to multiboxx several caps) As a friend of me once stated "wormholecorps grow till a point of no return, that point is the moment of them beeing to big to generate enough isk in their home for all their members, at this point this corp will die and its only a question of time" But keep recruiting guys, 50 T3s in fleet aint enough, need more ping warriors and less content creators, see you next year when you split/corp dies and all this drama happens. CCP can't patch what ppl make of the mechanics, ccp can only change mechancis to favor certain things, but i doubt that wspace beeing an entire farm was intentionally planed, the ONLY and REAL solution is that big entities split into smaller groups and create content for each other, this happening does influent farmers too, with more active c5/c5s farming becomes more dangerous, until then we have huge groups in low amounts crying for no content. Also how youfight dramaticly influences how people like to fight you, in example if people only want to fight in their home (cuz risk aversion) and drop a lot of caps on others, how big is the chance that they get fights? ;) Not wanting "fair play/hello kitty online" but respect is dieing and drama/crying is increasing almost to same levels as it is in League of Legends, where you have those 2 ragers in every single match, even in high elo. Personally i play eve for fun, if there is no content? fine roll the hole or run pve, if there's content we can't take (refusing to fight with 10 ppl vs hk in their home, i am sorry for that one but i think you can understand it from our pov), we also roll the hole. Nothing in w-space to do? Fine use our static nullsec (tradeoff for no escalations in c2) to use the content we have there, including getting batphoned from 00inhibitants and chainroll for their region. And yes sometimes pve with nice talk in TS + beer is also very welcome, that beeing said from somebody who is trying to pvp 99% of the time. There's plenty of content guys, you just don't see or you ruin it with how you play the game. Just my 2 cents and personal opinion after observing wspace for some years allready...
Andrew Jester ElitistOps Pandemic Legion 1323	Posted - 2015.08.12 12:51:10 - [232] - Quote came expecting whining russian, was disappointed found rusrus)) having fun instead~ If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Axloth Okiah Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 770	Posted - 2015.08.13 07:37:30 - [233] - Quote wh capital kills seem to be going down: https://i.imgur.com/wofUlSI.png (bottom right corner) SSC Brokering Service


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