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Rigs, eh? Where?

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St Dragon Blood Association of Dragons	Posted - 2006.12.01 15:46:00 - [61] Originally by: Oveur We're monitoring the drop-rate of Rig components, stay tuned. Exelent God is watching you rig builders ----------------------------------------------- "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.01 15:54:00 - [62] Originally by: JeanPierre Originally by: Harisdrop I need a link where it says they are going to drop it to survey IV... I'm not sure I've seen specifically "Survey IV". The major req's are Mechanic V and Survey V. It's one of the two. Given as most midbies to oldbies and a good portion of semi-noobs have Mechanic V for various other requirements, and hardly anybody can salvage yet, I guess the thought is they must be talking about Survey V. Hey Haris, long time no see man, since our Caldari Tech days. Hope things are going well. Hey, I would hope they remove Mechanic V from the req. Survey V would make it a profession which we all strive for. Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead . Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.
JeanPierre	Posted - 2006.12.01 15:58:00 - [63] Originally by: Harisdrop Originally by: JeanPierre Originally by: Harisdrop I need a link where it says they are going to drop it to survey IV... I'm not sure I've seen specifically "Survey IV". The major req's are Mechanic V and Survey V. It's one of the two. Given as most midbies to oldbies and a good portion of semi-noobs have Mechanic V for various other requirements, and hardly anybody can salvage yet, I guess the thought is they must be talking about Survey V. Hey Haris, long time no see man, since our Caldari Tech days. Hope things are going well. Hey, I would hope they remove Mechanic V from the req. Survey V would make it a profession which we all strive for. My understanding is that they want more people doing it sooner, hence the immediate patch on Tuesday. Since a lot, lot, lot more people have Mechanic V now, and still can't do it, it would stand to reason it is most likely Survey V being reduced to IV, for better or worse. If it was popping down the Mechanic V to Mechanic IV, the net number of players getting to salvaging quicker would be negligible at best I think. Unless I misunderstood their reasoning for wanting the requirements lowered, which is quite possible.
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:04:00 - [64] Originally by: JeanPierre Originally by: Harisdrop Originally by: JeanPierre Originally by: Harisdrop I need a link where it says they are going to drop it to survey IV... I'm not sure I've seen specifically "Survey IV". The major req's are Mechanic V and Survey V. It's one of the two. Given as most midbies to oldbies and a good portion of semi-noobs have Mechanic V for various other requirements, and hardly anybody can salvage yet, I guess the thought is they must be talking about Survey V. Hey Haris, long time no see man, since our Caldari Tech days. Hope things are going well. Hey, I would hope they remove Mechanic V from the req. Survey V would make it a profession which we all strive for. My understanding is that they want more people doing it sooner, hence the immediate patch on Tuesday. Since a lot, lot, lot more people have Mechanic V now, and still can't do it, it would stand to reason it is most likely Survey V being reduced to IV, for better or worse. If it was popping down the Mechanic V to Mechanic IV, the net number of players getting to salvaging quicker would be negligible at best I think. Unless I misunderstood their reasoning for wanting the requirements lowered, which is quite possible. Originally by: Oveur Just to elaborate on the changes we're looking at: - Their icon changes (a triangle is filled when it's unlooted) - Wrecks bump away when you fly past them (they are already tractorable) - Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch) - No criminal flag for salvaging (looting still flags you) I think its good that they keep professions at a diverse skill. I dont think a rank1 skill at level 5 should be too much. I think they should remove mechanic all together. Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead . Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:06:00 - [65] Originally by: Oveur We're monitoring the drop-rate of Rig components, stay tuned. That's nice to hear, but doesn't mean that you'll increase the drop rates, either, just that you're considering doing it. But most of the confusion that arise now comes from one big question: "How common do you intend them to be?". Rigs in every ships? Or, like +4 implants, toys for the rich? ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:20:00 - [66] Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Oveur We're monitoring the drop-rate of Rig components, stay tuned. That's nice to hear, but doesn't mean that you'll increase the drop rates, either, just that you're considering doing it. But most of the confusion that arise now comes from one big question: "How common do you intend them to be?". Rigs in every ships? Or, like +4 implants, toys for the rich? This is really the big question here. No one has any idea how common rigs are supposed to be. The prevalence of fitting slots on just about everything would seem to indicate they were meant to be very common. The drop rates work against that, but CCPs efforts to get more people salvaging would also seem to mean they want it to be pretty widespread. IMO, rigs should be common and player ships in the cruiser class and up should pretty much drop an entire rigs worth of components. NPCs should drop substantially less but still more then they do, perhaps 1/10 or 1/20 of a rig's worth.
Batolemaeus Caldari Steel Beasts	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:34:00 - [67] Edited by: Batolemaeus on 01/12/2006 16:35:29 Mh.. Looted an entire Lvl4-Ecounter Mission with Salvaging 3, and my Salvage-Destroyer (4 Tractors, 4 Salvaging Devices) and didnt loot any components. Before downtime i salvaged 10% of a rig out of that Mission.. Anything wrong? Pure disluck? Lets see whether it will be the same the next Mission or not..
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:38:00 - [68] I was looking forward to rigs as on option to further diversify my ship setups. However who the ** in their right mind is going to spend 1.5bil to outfit a t1 ship in rigs? It's *** retarded and very angering as a facet of the new patch that was looking very fun is unreachable to anyone who doesn't have billions. And to the people who don't like rigs, just because you're too stupid to figure out good rig setups (it's not like the training takes any time at all, oh noes 5 hours to use them all!) doesn't mean others out there shouldn't be allowed to explore their use. Currently the system is stupidly broken, components need to be tripled in their drop rate and building reqs should be atleast halved, if not more. A t1 rig should go for like 1mil tops or else why the bother with them on anything lower than a bship or a t2 ship? If you want uber expensive rigs then make the t2 ones cost ungodly amounts but the t1 rigs should atleast be attainable for a t1 ship and not stupidly out of place on it. Manlove by Zaphod Jones**
Leitari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:42:00 - [69] May I suggest you rather have the players solve a virtual rubics cube and then have the wreck yield components instead? would be much faster and less tedious perhaps.....
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:44:00 - [70] Originally by: Leitari May I suggest you rather have the players solve a virtual rubics cube and then have the wreck yield components instead? would be much faster and less tedious perhaps..... haha would be more entertaining too Manlove by Zaphod Jones
JeanPierre	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:44:00 - [71] Originally by: Murukan A t1 rig should go for like 1mil tops or else why the **** bother with them on anything lower than a bship or a t2 ship? If you want uber expensive rigs then make the t2 ones cost ungodly amounts but the t1 rigs should atleast be attainable for a t1 ship and not stupidly out of place on it. This is a great point. It would address both parties - those who want it for everybody (T1) and those who want more 1 billion isk Rich Guy bling bling (T2).
Katja Frostbane Amarr The Valkyries	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:54:00 - [72] I think the real question is this: Are rigs ment to be common, every day items, or are they ment to be similar to faction loot in rarity, or somewhere in between. I think its safe to assume that different areas drop different salvage (or at least different NPC's do). I did notice that there are two main factors with getting salvage drops: 1) - Level of the ship you killed (NPC Speaking) and 2) - Security Level of the System you are in. I went to wander around in .1, .2, and .3 systems last night for about two hours. I got a drop rate of about 90% in .1, about 80% in .2, and roughly 70% in .3 . I also noticed that "rarer" types of salvage came from better npc's than the typical common NPC. Also it seems the T1 ships vary widely. Personally I think it gives the salvage profession just that - a profession that is fairly hard, but worthwhile. Certainly larger corps/alliances will want salvagers to come with (Possibly using Support ships in combat, then salvaging after), for the best of both worlds. Having said that I've already lined up a handful of people I am buying them from, so I still have a steady flow coming in. An increase in drop rate of maybe 20% may be in order. Perhaps even a set a drop rate of 1 Frigate, 2 Destroyer, 3 Cruiser, 4 BC, 5 BS may be in order. The best I've seen so far has been 4 in one go. Anything more than this takes away from having this be a profession, while still allowing everyday players to make some ISK. Oh, and buying all salvage components - EVE Mail me in game for prices :)
Blind Man Caldari Kemono.	Posted - 2006.12.01 17:12:00 - [73] also was thinking, do we really need more things to make rich people more uber (you can already buy a good char, implant sets, faction mods, etc..) Sig removed.\o/ It's great flying Amarr, ain't it?
Stephar The High Priest	Posted - 2006.12.01 17:22:00 - [74] I personally won't bother farming rig components unless I can average ~10 mil ISK/hour. You can make just as much mining in high security, and more running level 4's, so that's my minimum baseline. If it takes 6 hours to farm the components for one rig, it's going to cost over 60 million ISK for the buyer. If the buyer is unwilling to pay 60 million, the salvager isn't going to lower prices... he's going to quit salvaging, and do something more profitable. CCP needs to decide on a baseline price for what one rig should cost, and balance component drops (or material requirements) accordingly. If they going to cost more than 10 million ISK, you might as well remove the rig slots for anything smaller than a battlecruiser. Why would you put a rig on a ship when the rig costs more than the entire ship? CCP also needs to remember that EVE is a PvP game, and if rigs are more readily obtainable, people will more frequently use them for PvP. Rigs will constantly be destroyed, and demand for rigs will always exist.
Murukan Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.01 17:47:00 - [75] Originally by: Stephar I personally won't bother farming rig components unless I can average ~10 mil ISK/hour. You can make just as much mining in high security, and more running level 4's, so that's my minimum baseline. If it takes 6 hours to farm the components for one rig, it's going to cost over 60 million ISK for the buyer. If the buyer is unwilling to pay 60 million, the salvager isn't going to lower prices... he's going to quit salvaging, and do something more profitable. CCP needs to decide on a baseline price for what one rig should cost, and balance component drops (or material requirements) accordingly. If they going to cost more than 10 million ISK, you might as well remove the rig slots for anything smaller than a battlecruiser. Why would you put a rig on a ship when the rig costs more than the entire ship? CCP also needs to remember that EVE is a PvP game, and if rigs are more readily obtainable, people will more frequently use them for PvP. Rigs will constantly be destroyed, and demand for rigs will always exist. They really need to reduce the reqs for t1 rigs a lot and increase the drop rates. Or else you're going to have rigs selling for like 40,000% the price of the bpo, which is retarded considering no other t1 item works like that. Manlove by Zaphod Jones
JeanPierre	Posted - 2006.12.01 17:50:00 - [76] Originally by: Stephar I personally won't bother farming rig components unless I can average ~10 mil ISK/hour. You can make just as much mining in high security, and more running level 4's, so that's my minimum baseline. If it takes 6 hours to farm the components for one rig, it's going to cost over 60 million ISK for the buyer. If the buyer is unwilling to pay 60 million, the salvager isn't going to lower prices... he's going to quit salvaging, and do something more profitable. Which in turn will lower the prices across the board if enough salvagers do this. Others will train up to fill in the gaps, and price lower for the sale. Eventually the price will go to it's sustained level of whatever, and there you have it. Quote: CCP needs to decide on a baseline price for what one rig should cost, and balance component drops (or material requirements) accordingly. If they going to cost more than 10 million ISK, you might as well remove the rig slots for anything smaller than a battlecruiser. Why would you put a rig on a ship when the rig costs more than the entire ship? CCP also needs to remember that EVE is a PvP game, and if rigs are more readily obtainable, people will more frequently use them for PvP. Rigs will constantly be destroyed, and demand for rigs will always exist. I agree with this 100%.
Jet Collins Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2006.12.01 17:52:00 - [77] Edited by: Jet Collins on 01/12/2006 18:00:54 Linkage Sorry helps if I add the link huh I have started a poll on what people will be willing to pay when they first come out. Please post your comments relaited to that there. Jet
MrLobster Cosmic Odyssey Chorus of Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:22:00 - [78] (didnt see this written here) Why dont the rats drop the T1 rigs themselves, works well on all T1 Loot :) Although I dont know if a Named T1 Rig would help. ______ Better? - MrLobster
ForceM	Posted - 2006.12.04 14:20:00 - [79] Originally by: MrLobster (didnt see this written here) Why dont the rats drop the T1 rigs themselves, works well on all T1 Loot :) Although I dont know if a Named T1 Rig would help. Cause the same reason why you cannot unfit them or repackage them ... BOOOM when you go ...
Le Pecarosh	Posted - 2006.12.04 14:37:00 - [80] Originally by: Baleorg Originally by: Blind Man in another thread I saw that it has taken 15 people 2 days to get only 50% of the components needed for ONE rig. strange. i got around 80% for 1 hybrid rig together, and iam alone and iam mining most of the time Oh? How exactly you did that? I've spent 4-5 hours with corpmate, ratting/salvaging. I was popping rats as fast as possible, he was salvaging as fast as possible. I am talking about ratting in 0.0 space, nice -0.5 to -0.8 systems, with nice rats (anything from small frigs, to 1.7mil BSs). We did it in 2 regions (so that we get 'variety' of drops), and we didn't manage to get even 5% of components needed for a single rig. So, how exactly did you get 80% of parts for a rig? Or it is just another "I am so special" type of post?
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2006.12.04 16:43:00 - [81] I'm on the side of thinking that says rigs should be common. Like, 20m apiece, tops for T1 ones. Why? Because I'm all for the unpredictability of pvp. Rigs will throw that extra layer of "Oh, damnit, is he super-tanked against me with a rig? With a falloff buff to outrange my autos with his?" to pvp. I think it's pretty thrilling to go into battle with less and less knowledge of the enemy, because he has the same disadvantage. Intelligence is the key to victory, but I'll be damned if working with what you have and using tactics to beat a suddenly superior fit (then gloating about it =P) isn't fun. ---------------------------- Buying Sabres. EVEmail or convo me in game!
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2006.12.04 16:44:00 - [82] Originally by: Blind Man also was thinking, do we really need more things to make rich people more uber (you can already buy a good char, implant sets, faction mods, etc..) Well, if that's not hypocricy, I don't know what is =P ---------------------------- Buying Sabres. EVEmail or convo me in game!
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.04 16:46:00 - [83] Haven't you realised yet? Everything comes in pre-nerfed in eve. If the drop rate was massive at the start, the market would be so flooded with rigs that they would be practically free. Give it 6 months then start complaining if there are not enough rigs around. Building a whole new player driven market into the game does not and should not happen overnight. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
schurem Silver Snake Enterprise Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.04 23:16:00 - [84] Originally by: DB Preacher Haven't you realised yet? Everything comes in pre-nerfed in eve. If the drop rate was massive at the start, the market would be so flooded with rigs that they would be practically free. Give it 6 months then start complaining if there are not enough rigs around. Building a whole new player driven market into the game does not and should not happen overnight. dbp this man speaks truth. listen. understand. However, I still think EvE needs more and better tactical warning]/B] sounds. <<<< No Boundaries, No Fences, Fly [b]Free Or Die Trying >>>>
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.12.04 23:18:00 - [85] Originally by: Oveur We're monitoring the drop-rate of Rig components, stay tuned. Are you looking into Invention also? because the drop rate of rig components seems ok, 15 components in a couple minutes ok for me, takes a while to gather but they are like implants and live as long as the ship. Also can you lower skill requirements for exploration probes as you did with Tractor beams and Salvager, because I'm still 12 days away from lvl 5 and it would be very bad to waste more time trainning, like survey 5.
Xoria Krint The Movement	Posted - 2006.12.04 23:26:00 - [86] I disagree. Did the fifteen people salvage from npc's or PvP wrecks? --- My Movies
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.12.04 23:29:00 - [87] Originally by: Baleorg Originally by: Blind Man in another thread I saw that it has taken 15 people 2 days to get only 50% of the components needed for ONE rig. strange. i got around 80% for 1 hybrid rig together, and iam alone and iam mining most of the time lucky bastard
B'Ellana Torres	Posted - 2006.12.04 23:35:00 - [88] Rigs should be rare and special and so far I'm very happy with the drop rate. There does seem however to be a problem with the ratio of the drops. As one poster noted above things like Fried Circuits etc which are commonly needed in large quantities are very rare, whilst other items which are specific to rig type and not needed in large quantities are dropping 90% of the time. If a builder is forced to buy common parts on the market rather than being able to collect them then the price of rigs will certainly have to reflect that. I, personally, would welcome a balancing of the drop ratio but I would certainly not want to see battleships drop dozens of parts as has been suggested. Having said all that it is still very early days and it is an extremely welcome addition to the game and very well implemented. CCP deserve a tremendous amount of credit for keeping the game fresh and interesting.
Merdaneth	Posted - 2006.12.04 23:37:00 - [89] Question: Are there different types of rigs for Frigates and Battleships? Because I would love to create some customized Frigs, but if both use the same rigs, then obviously (considering the projected effort and corresponding cost) nobody will ever equip a Frig with rigs, since just one rig will be more than the cost of the frig several times over. I'd hate to see it devolve into 'only big expensive ships get rigs'.
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.12.05 00:03:00 - [90] Originally by: Bombcrater Drops rates need to go up, or build requirements down, for rigs to be anything more than a curiosity. This is the truth of the matter. Who in their right mind would invest 500m in one rig? Its ridiculous. but in EVE time = money, and salvaging is both very time intensive for very low material return compared what you need to build a rig. Even if you reduced build requirements by 90%, you would still have a valuable and not overly common item.

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