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Blind Man
Caldari
Kemono.
   |
Posted - 2006.12.01 03:26:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Blind Man on 01/12/2006 03:28:53
So with the introduction of Revelations it seems that only 1-2 rig components are dropping from ships, in another thread I saw that it has taken 15 people 2 days to get only 50% of the components needed for ONE rig. IMO this should not be the case. Change salvaging skill to 5% more amount of salvaged components per lvl, don't see why in the world we need more stuff chanced based on something already so rare. (also the salvage tackle rigs changed to salvage amount, but % should be taken down to 5-10% or so)
and the drop rates for salvaged components should be changed to something along these lines:
Shuttle/noob ship = 1-10 components
frig: 10-50
dessie: 50-75
cruiser: 100-175
BC: 175-250
BS: 500-750
Taking into consideration that T2 rigs are harder to get components for etc, This would allow for much higher production of rigs. I think that T1 rigs should be readily available to everyone, including new players. We take time to train like 8 skills to reduce penalties on them, thats already enough effort Please don't make this a useless feature only for people who want to invest (450m+) per rig..
Sig removed.\o/
It's great flying Amarr, ain't it? |
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
In Articulo Mortis
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 03:32:00 -
[2]
/signed
The ****ed things were supposed to give us the ability to have more diverse setups. WTF?
FOR THE EMPEROR!
The Fourth NtV (Noob to Vet) Lottery |
Marlenus
Caldari
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 03:42:00 -
[3]
Disagree.
Right now the demand for rigs is unlimited and the drop rate for salvage is frustratingly low, sure. But that's a GOOD thing.
I'm a salvager, see. I *enjoy* salvaging, and I want the salvaged goods to have real value. At these drop rates, they do. And they'll keep doing so.
I'm sure they'll tune this a bit more friendly, but I hope they don't go too far. I'd hate to see wreck parts for sale in stacks of hundreds in Jita for small money, it would take all the fun out of this nifty new feature.
At this rate rigs are going to be rare and valuable for a LONG time. That's not a bug, it's a feature. A GOOD feature.
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.01 03:43:00 -
[4]
As I hate the concept of rigs, the rarer the better. It's fine, leave it alone.
//Maya |
Blind Man
Caldari
Kemono.
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 03:50:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Blind Man on 01/12/2006 03:53:11
i just find it silly they add a new feature and these little t1 mods with cheap blueprints for them will cost retarded amount, useless feature :/, t2 rigs shouldnt even be this bad, whos gonna waste time salvaging if they know it will take them like a year to build a rig nobody will buy
Sig removed.\o/
It's great flying Amarr, ain't it? |
Baleorg
Gallente
Guys of Sarcasm
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 03:56:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Blind Man
in another thread I saw that it has taken 15 people 2 days to get only 50% of the components needed for ONE rig.
strange. i got around 80% for 1 hybrid rig together, and iam alone and iam mining most of the time
---
BTW: A GOOD Cache-Cleaner |
Kiyano
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:24:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Marlenus
Disagree.
Right now the demand for rigs is unlimited and the drop rate for salvage is frustratingly low, sure. But that's a GOOD thing.
I'm a salvager, see. I *enjoy* salvaging, and I want the salvaged goods to have real value. At these drop rates, they do. And they'll keep doing so.
I'm sure they'll tune this a bit more friendly, but I hope they don't go too far. I'd hate to see wreck parts for sale in stacks of hundreds in Jita for small money, it would take all the fun out of this nifty new feature.
At this rate rigs are going to be rare and valuable for a LONG time. That's not a bug, it's a feature. A GOOD feature.
Agree'd, it makes the profession fun and worth while, not just something everybody does, its truely tough and rewarding if you choose to follow that particular path.
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JamesTalon
Caldari
Electric Fury Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:31:00 -
[8]
Its the one side path I'm actually taking with my alt. He will now serve as a dual purpose hauler/salvager 
EVEBay
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Zartmann
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:33:00 -
[9]
CCP please tune this a bit more friendly, just a bit, so more people will go for this professional path. An increased (again, just bit) in the drop rate will do the trick IMHO.
My english sucks? I bet that u can also beat me in <my_native_language>? BTW: hate my spelling too? Go play Scrabble! |
Fuujin
Hadean Drive Yards
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:40:00 -
[10]
The drop rates shouldn't be anywhere near as high as the op suggested.
Hadean Drive Yards Tier 2 BC Pricing |
Cadiz
Caldari
No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:45:00 -
[11]
Have any of you tried comparing the salvage drop rates from belt rats and/or player wrecks to those of mission rats? I'm pretty sure you'll get more from player wrecks. Maybe they want you to go blow up other people for your l33t rig bitz! 
------
Quartermaster, No Quarter
"There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence." |
TheDevilsJury
principle of motion
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:46:00 -
[12]
Completely disagree. Rigs should be rare. They should cost as much as good implants do.
^^^^ You can hide, but you can't run. ^^^^ |
Drutort
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:50:00 -
[13]
why did they put rig slots on some of those ships? like t1 frig and so on... when at these rates nothing but capital and faction bs will be fitting them and maybe hac's command ships and the few others... 
all it will do is make the uber items more uber, meaning more of a gap
i dont know why, because they are perma items, and destroyed once repackaged so... its not like a item or module that you can reuse or refit on different ships, its a consumable 
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Drutort
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:52:00 -
[14]
they could have also made different grades of them, like implants... that way everyone could fit them but have different % i don get it... it shouldnt be only t1 and t2
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Dahin
Maza Nostra
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.12.01 05:28:00 -
[15]
I'd say the first rigs will for for about .5b each.
Then after a while, they will drop and stabilize 50-100m each imho. It's just waaaaaay too timeconsuming to harvest the parts.
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Blind Man
Caldari
Kemono.
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 05:50:00 -
[16]
Originally by: TheDevilsJury
Completely disagree. Rigs should be rare. They should cost as much as good implants do.
tend to agree with that so i changed the numbers 
Sig removed.\o/
It's great flying Amarr, ain't it? |
Maximillian Pele
Caldari
Jewel Enterprises
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 06:10:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Maximillian Pele on 01/12/2006 06:14:06
Give it time.
The early adopters will always pay a premium for the new toys.
The price of rigs will be determined by:
The number of players with the skills to salvage.
The number of BPOs and whether they are in production or research.
The number of components being salvaged.
Then add a profit margin determined by supply and demand.
Atm the number of people with the skills is low, plus the number of salvaged components is low. Most rigs being built now will be for Alliance/Corp/Personal use. Those that make it onto the market will sell at a huge margin due to rarity.
But as long as more rigs are being built than are being lost, the price will drop as more and more make their way onto the market.
But the eventual cost will reflect the time spent salvaging, the supply of components, and the rarity of rigs for sale.
And there is nothing to stop anyone from salvaging and building their own.
In times of doubt I ask myself "What would BoB do?", and then do the opposite. |
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
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Posted - 2006.12.01 06:38:00 -
[18]
Player ships should drop more components, NPC ships should drop less. Increase drop rates across the board. End.
~~~~~~~~~
I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message. |
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
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Posted - 2006.12.01 06:44:00 -
[19]
Originally by: TheDevilsJury
Completely disagree. Rigs should be rare. They should cost as much as good implants do.
Have you salvaged anything at all? At the rate that components are dropping, Rigs will cost 10 TIMES the amount of any ship just due to the effort put forth by the manufacturer to obtain the components.
We salvaged a vengeance and a retribution today and got one component dropped. A brutix dropped nothing, and all T1 frigs drop Scrap Metal.
~~~~~~~~~
I wish my lawn was EMO so it would cut itself. I approve of this message. |
Loraen
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Posted - 2006.12.01 07:14:00 -
[20]
I'm seeing the drop rates as somewhat low but not much.. maybe increase the base chance from the salvager to 10 or 15% and have large ships have a chance for 2-3 pieces.
As for missions, it's been a bit inconsistent. So far at least rogue drones and mercenaries drop no salvage at all. My wild guess is you only get salvage from rat types that appear also on belts.
I'm seeing Inventing as an important part of rigging, at least most gallente ships have enough calibration points to fit a t2 rig plus two t1s, or two t2s.
I'm looking forward to putting together an Ancillary Circuit Controller rig (sp?), which gives 10 points of powergrid with no drawbacks. That's gonna rock for AFs (t2 variant adds 15 PG..).
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Cyclops43
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Posted - 2006.12.01 09:06:00 -
[21]
I got 32 components yesterday from salvaging about half of the NPC ships from the Worlds Collide lvl 4 mission (only cleared the serpentis side of the mission). It took a long while to get them, but not too bad.
I don't thinks salvage yields should be increased, but all NPC ships should have a chance of being salvagable (some missions have no salvagable ships).
However, I think the BPO's component requirements should be dropped to about half of what they are now. As they are now rigs are simply too hard to build and will only be put on pimped ships (if prices develop as I think...).
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Now Mary
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Posted - 2006.12.01 09:07:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Loraen
I'm seeing the drop rates as somewhat low but not much.. maybe increase the base chance from the salvager to 10 or 15% and have large ships have a chance for 2-3 pieces.
As for missions, it's been a bit inconsistent. So far at least rogue drones and mercenaries drop no salvage at all. My wild guess is you only get salvage from rat types that appear also on belts.
I'm seeing Inventing as an important part of rigging, at least most gallente ships have enough calibration points to fit a t2 rig plus two t1s, or two t2s.
I'm looking forward to putting together an Ancillary Circuit Controller rig (sp?), which gives 10 points of powergrid with no drawbacks. That's gonna rock for AFs (t2 variant adds 15 PG..).
Actually, that's 10 percent more grid, like a reactor control unit. Not so good for frigates, but awesome for everybody else.
But I agree with the OP. I was excited for rigging, I thought it would bring some real variety to PVP and industry alike, as it turn's out, it's just another COSMOS. I think ultimately CCP should increase drop rates, and have some of the more basic rigs require common components, while making other components rare for more exotic rigs.
Perhaps they can even go as far as creating a basic level of rigs that have further reduced bonuses as compared to the t1 versions, (5% f.ex), require significantly more calibration points (250, 175, 100, etc). But whatever you decide to do CCP, please bring rigging to the masses.
If you are reading a post by this character, it's probably because I'm too lazy to select my main. Try not to lose any sleep over it, mkay? |
Jim McGregor
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 09:11:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 01/12/2006 09:18:27
Im on the "they should be rare" side as well. I dont think they are intended to be common, then they would be on the market with npc blueprints. And like some people are saying, its pretty nice if you can make a nice living from salvaging. It should be hard work, but pay off nicely so its still worth doing.
Im pretty much for any sort of specialization in Eve. We have professions like miner and trader in Eve, but Im all for making Eve professions even more specialized. You shouldnt be able to "do it all" yourself. You should pay a salvage crew for getting you rigs etc... we cant all be fighters. :)
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Aerial Boundaries Inc.
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 09:18:00 -
[24]
From the salvagers point of view they should be rare to make the profession worthwhile.
From the rigs point of view they should be plentiful, otherwise we're going to be seeing a lot of empty rig slots, and none of the new variety in PvP they are supposed to be adding.
Is it possible that the concept of improving existing ships using broken junk from previously destroyed ships is in some way flawed? 
----------
IBTL \o/
EVE is upside down!
WTZ+Slower Warp=Win |
Rexthor Hammerfists
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 09:21:00 -
[25]
i think its right that npc wrecks dont drop many rig components,
tho it would be interesting if player wrecks would drop alot more components.
-
Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
|
Pia Domina
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Posted - 2006.12.01 09:23:00 -
[26]
Patience...
Rigs are new, and not meant to be as common as tech 1 frigates anyway. It's a whole new concept that the devs have put it, and while they've been tested on Sisi unleashing them onto the TQ playerbase is very different. They might need some more balancing as we start to seem them used. Maybe there's an obvious "must have" combination that creates a supership... It's better to watch them develop slowly in case any problems need to be rectified before too many people have them.
And personally, I think they should remain relatively rare. The manufacture requirements of the rigs do seem high for the amount of salvage you get from each drop, but I'd definitely prefer to see the rigs spread slowly and gradually in case some need tweaking.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.12.01 09:32:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 01/12/2006 09:38:41
They could also introduce rigs as rare agent mission rewards, to speed up the process of getting them on the market. Its like with implants... when I started playing, level 3 implants were very expensive. Now they are very cheap. The reason that happened is because of implants being rewarded very often. I dont think thats the right way to go with rigs, but if ccp manage to keep them very rare agent rewards, I think it could work.
Its also possible that some of the exploration stuff includes ships with a good drop rate for the materials needed. Anyone checked out the new regions with the new drones? 
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Eddie Gordo
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 09:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Marlenus
Disagree.
Right now the demand for rigs is unlimited and the drop rate for salvage is frustratingly low, sure. But that's a GOOD thing.
I'm a salvager, see. I *enjoy* salvaging, and I want the salvaged goods to have real value. At these drop rates, they do. And they'll keep doing so.
I'm sure they'll tune this a bit more friendly, but I hope they don't go too far. I'd hate to see wreck parts for sale in stacks of hundreds in Jita for small money, it would take all the fun out of this nifty new feature.
At this rate rigs are going to be rare and valuable for a LONG time. That's not a bug, it's a feature. A GOOD feature.
QFT, however as far as I can tell there is no differentiation between small ships and larger ships in terms of what gets dropped. Larger ships should IMO drop more just not much more.
Now Recruiting |
Shayla Etherodyne
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 10:13:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Shayla Etherodyne on 01/12/2006 10:22:16
Edited by: Shayla Etherodyne on 01/12/2006 10:20:46
Originally by: Cadiz
Have any of you tried comparing the salvage drop rates from belt rats and/or player wrecks to those of mission rats? I'm pretty sure you'll get more from player wrecks. Maybe they want you to go blow up other people for your l33t rig bitz!
Tried thst on Sisi: the chance to salvage something from a player ship wreck are lower, but if you salvage, usually you get 2 and sometime 3 items.
My tries have gotten 0 salvage from NPC drones, named enemyes, Navy ships, mercenaries and buildings, while I have got good results from Serpentis ships.
The drop rate can be even acceptable even if a bit low, the problem is the time needed. To get a result I usually need 4-5 cycles with 2 salvagers so the time needed to recover the components is high. In it it is needed to factor the wrecks that don't yeld salvage, so salvaging a standard mission with about 40 wrecks require about 30 minutes. And as you need to be relatively quiet (I usually scan while moving to the next wreck, tractoring behind me the current one) as you are sacrificing highslots for non combat related modules.
Edit:
Originally by: Loraen
As for missions, it's been a bit inconsistent. So far at least rogue drones and mercenaries drop no salvage at all. My wild guess is you only get salvage from rat types that appear also on belts.
Gerat intuition, I think you are right!
|
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 10:35:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Marlenus
At this rate rigs are going to be rare and valuable for a LONG time. That's not a bug, it's a feature. A GOOD feature.
Yeah 450 mill per t1 rig is just awesome... 
-----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
ghosttr
Amarr
Resource Control Agency
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 10:58:00 -
[31]
Not makin rigs, yet. Got 5bpos in the ole' mobile lab. Wait till they start to get to me 100 in a week or so.
I don't have a problem with authority...
...as long as it doesn't get in my way. |
Bombcrater
DAB
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 11:32:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Marlenus
At this rate rigs are going to be rare and valuable for a LONG time. That's not a bug, it's a feature. A GOOD feature.
I agree that rigs should be somewhat rare and valuable, but the current drop rates mean the only people who'll ever fit them are the types who have enough money to fly faction battleships fitted with officer mods and have a full implant set installed. They don't really need any more help.
There's a lack of hard numbers in this thread, so I'll give some. I've been ratting pretty solidly for 2 days in the new regions, salvaging 90% of the resulting drone wrecks. 157 rig parts recovered in total, but of course there are so many varieties that actual numbers for individual types are very low.
(and this is not just an NPC thing. I've salvaged several player ship wrecks, including a T2 one, and got almost nothing out of them)
Here's the build requirements for two rigs, picked at random. In square brackets are the numbers of components I've collected so far.
Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Charred Micro Circuit - 75 [4]
Fried Interface Circuit - 86 [2]
Malfunctioning Shield Emitter - 46 [6]
Bay Loading Accelerator I
Burned Logic Circuit - 131 [3]
Scorched Telemetry Processor - 106 [14]
Tripped Power Circuit - 92 [5]
It doesn't take a 1337 maths wizzard to figure out how long it's going to take to build one rig, and how corresponingly astronomical the price will be. Even trading parts I don't need for more useful ones, I can't see myself selling a rig for less than 250m. Maybe as high as 500m for the ones with high build requirements.
Drops rates need to go up, or build requirements down, for rigs to be anything more than a curiosity. |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.12.01 11:39:00 -
[33]
Remember that you could pop more ships while you're salvaging.
Imagine how much bounty you could get in the time it takes t get the components for a single rig.
You do not get the components for one rig right next to each other. You get a whole selection of things you do not need, and which others don't need either as some rigs are pretty useless.
--*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing.
by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Vixisti
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 11:49:00 -
[34]
The drop ammounts or build requirements have to be incorrect at the moment.
I tested on sisi before the main patch on tranq and everyone was using rigs as they were readily available. Guess what, fitting ships out with rigs was awesome FUN. Battles became more varied as everyone was trying different setups to suit their fight/playing style. The permutations for ship setups was made massively larger. It was destined to be a great new feature and profitable for those wanting to go into salvage as everyone is going to want rigs.
So what's the reality now? The person said that rigs would be used by only the rich people, you know the ones that that use all the faction stuff in pvp, is correct.
So where's the FUN for the rest of the general eve population? Risking your neck in a new uncharted region of Eve should be profitable and guess what? It still can be if the drop ammounts were made 10 times bigger or even larger than that. The salvagers would actually have a market to sell to and the players of Eve would have some FUN.
FUN is after all, why people play.... isnt it?
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.01 11:59:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Fuujin
The drop rates shouldn't be anywhere near as high as the op suggested.
Explain why T1 rigs should be rare.
------------------------------------------
Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Grimpak
Gallente
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 12:09:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Fuujin
The drop rates shouldn't be anywhere near as high as the op suggested.
Explain why T1 rigs should be rare.
actually fuujin is right.
but it's also true that atm the drops are too few.
I would say a minimum of 1 for shuttles and a maximum of 35-40 for BS'es.
shuttles and noobships should give scrap metal most of the times tbh.
-------
Originally by: Tiuwaz
for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
|
Uggster
Caldari
Never'where
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Posted - 2006.12.01 12:28:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Uggster on 01/12/2006 12:29:16
If anyone is paying attention they would have noticed (even at this early stage) that mission wrecks are dropping almost nothing and belt rats are doing better (dont know if it's connected to sec lvl of system). And apparently PvP wrecks are better still.
There is a wide enough cash river for double account mission ho's without adding to it.
And shuttles & noob ships should give nothing.
Edit, the shuttle bit.
_______________________________________________
Sig removed as inappropriate- Tirg
Story of my life that one :(
|
Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
In Articulo Mortis
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Posted - 2006.12.01 12:29:00 -
[38]
This is ridiculous. Rigs SHOULDN'T be rare. The WHOLE POINT of them was to give us more varied setups. At 250M each, that's not going to happen. And this is coming from a salvager.
FOR THE EMPEROR!
The Fourth NtV (Noob to Vet) Lottery |
Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 12:33:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Fuujin
The drop rates shouldn't be anywhere near as high as the op suggested.
Explain why T1 rigs should be rare.
actually fuujin is right.
but it's also true that atm the drops are too few.
I would say a minimum of 1 for shuttles and a maximum of 35-40 for BS'es.
shuttles and noobships should give scrap metal most of the times tbh.
Which doesn't really answer my question. I'd like to know what reasons there is to restrict rigs to high-sec mission runners and uber-rich people.
The way I see it, T1 rigs should range from 3 to 5 millions Isks, and T2 from 10 to 15 millions, once the market stabilize. If their value is 50 millions+, almost no one will use them in pvp, few in 0.0/low-sec ratting/missions, and they might as well not exist...
------------------------------------------
Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 12:41:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Uggster
There is a wide enough cash river for double account mission ho's without adding to it.
Don't start bringing up the double account argument, as it represent only a tiny minority of mission runners.
How do you evaluate an isk-income? It's in average isks/hour. The time you take salvaging wrecks is time you're not using to chain missions. So, unless salvaging becomes more profitable than (NPC bounties+loot+rewards)/Time, your reasoning is flawed...
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Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Tharim
Minmatar
Code-Blue
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 12:51:00 -
[41]
Survey to lvl5 takes 5 days. Give it a week and you will see alot more components on the market im sure.
www.eve-files.com/media/0602/CCP_tharim.gif[/IMG]
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes |
Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 12:57:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 01/12/2006 12:58:01
The tech-1 versions shouldn't be rare. Even tech-1 frigs have rig slots. Typical elitism here again: 'Let a rig cost hundred millions, so that only a minority can make use of it.'
My opinion is: Tech-1 rigs are for everone and every ship. Even the BPOs are priced that rigs are a new production opportunity for newbie producers. Tech-1 rigs are for the masses, also produced by and bought by newbies. It's a new feature for everyone imho.
CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix. |
Spanker
Absolut Profit
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 12:59:00 -
[43]
I thought only player wrecks dropped rig parts. I thought it was the whole point of it, to make pvp profitable?
- Shpank |
Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 13:02:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Spanker
I thought only player wrecks dropped rig parts. I thought it was the whole point of it, to make pvp profitable?
That's supposed to be true for T2 rigs components, dropping only with T2 wrecks.
------------------------------------------
Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Skyy
Caldari
Veni-Vidi-Vici
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 13:23:00 -
[45]
The obvious is that CCP decided to start this slow and small... the reality is there are 30,000 players, and sure we don't all salvage, but eventually, there will be a lot of parts out there... eventually.
If anything, I could see CCP lowering the bpo amounts needed to build.
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JeanPierre
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 13:28:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 01/12/2006 09:18:27
Im on the "they should be rare" side as well. I dont think they are intended to be common, then they would be on the market with npc blueprints. And like some people are saying, its pretty nice if you can make a nice living from salvaging. It should be hard work, but pay off nicely so its still worth doing.
Im pretty much for any sort of specialization in Eve. We have professions like miner and trader in Eve, but Im all for making Eve professions even more specialized. You shouldnt be able to "do it all" yourself. You should pay a salvage crew for getting you rigs etc... we cant all be fighters. :)
You can tell that they're not intended to be common by noting the fact that a Probe has slots for rigs.
Only the most uber of players uses a Probe.
QED
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Oveur
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Posted - 2006.12.01 13:32:00 -
[47]
We're monitoring the drop-rate of Rig components, stay tuned.
Senior Producer
EVE Online
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JeanPierre
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 13:37:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Oveur
We're monitoring the drop-rate of Rig components, stay tuned.
Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes!
Da Gawdz have sat up and taken notice! Right on.
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr
In Articulo Mortis
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Posted - 2006.12.01 13:47:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Oveur
We're monitoring the drop-rate of Rig components, stay tuned.
Woot!
FOR THE EMPEROR!
The Fourth NtV (Noob to Vet) Lottery |
Stitcher
Caldari
J.I.T. Enterprises
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.01 13:57:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Stitcher on 01/12/2006 13:58:17
Originally by: Maya Rkell
As I hate the concept of rigs, the rarer the better. It's fine, leave it alone.
I think this statement pretty well sums up one of the biggest problems EVE has - it's impossible for the devs to please everyone.
I LOVE rigs, or at least the concept of them. I fly minmatar interceptors, and I'm just itching for the chance to make an astronautics rig or two - it smacks of dangerously overcharging the engine and cutting back on a few uneccesary safe guards to squeeze a few extra ergs out of the ion drive, which is precisely the sort of thing you WOULD get in privately owned freelance ships which are at constant risk of being attacked, in situations where every edge counts. it's roleplay-tastic for a start, and lends an extra layer of depth and tactical flexibility to an already deep and flexible game system.
I mean, let's say I fit my stilleto with a tech 2 auxiliary thrusters rig and a tech 2 dynamic fuel valve rig. that's basically a case of taking this ship and bolting some extra engines on, then fiddling with the fuel feeds so that the whole thing rides a knife-edge of performance. You can't tell me that's not cool.
At the same time, however, the bonuses provided by these rigs are pretty powerful. that auxilliary thrusters rig would improve my ship's speed by 15%, and the dynamic fuel valve drops the cap need of the MWD by 20%, at the total expense of 20% or so of my armour (which on an interceptor is a negligible loss anyway). Those are big, very sweet bonuses, and they SHOULD be expensive and time-consuming to procure.
____________________________________________________________
MAY CONTAIN NUTS. |
Ambrose
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Posted - 2006.12.01 14:41:00 -
[51]
It seems Highly Variable.
I'm aware of certain NPC's where BS are dropping 30-40 components. It seems to only be happenning in certain patches of space however.
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MurderCityDevil
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Posted - 2006.12.01 14:48:00 -
[52]
You buncha nancies, quit whining about new content. If you don't like them don't use them...
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Detavi Kade
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 14:52:00 -
[53]
I'm with the rare crowd. Having them should be a luxury, and losing them should make you cry. Unlike Maya Rykell, I like the rigs concept though. Can't wait to have my first, in 30 days or so. lol.
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Allen Deckard
Gallente
LFC
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.01 14:56:00 -
[54]
you realize that most people arent salvaging yet? I dont have survey 5 tue it supposed to lower to something so i am waiting.
Right now guessing here but say 24k people online maybe 200 of them are salvaging if it's profitable 20k will and you wont see high prices then 10k will cause the price is to low. Thus free market.
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schurem
Anarchy Inc.
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.12.01 14:57:00 -
[55]
it'll be good ..... in a month or two
<<<< No Boundaries, No Fences, Fly Free Or Die Trying >>>>
Warning sounds!, My kingdom for more warning sounds!
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.01 15:16:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Detavi Kade
I'm with the rare crowd. Having them should be a luxury...
Why?
------------------------------------------
Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Detavi Kade
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Posted - 2006.12.01 15:18:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Detavi Kade
I'm with the rare crowd. Having them should be a luxury...
Why?
So that losing them would make you cry! You forgot to quote that part.
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Harisdrop
Gallente
ClanKillers
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.12.01 15:24:00 -
[58]
I need a link where it says they are going to drop it to survey IV...
Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead
. Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.
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JeanPierre
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Posted - 2006.12.01 15:27:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Harisdrop
I need a link where it says they are going to drop it to survey IV...
I'm not sure I've seen specifically "Survey IV". The major req's are Mechanic V and Survey V. It's one of the two. Given as most midbies to oldbies and a good portion of semi-noobs have Mechanic V for various other requirements, and hardly anybody can salvage yet, I guess the thought is they must be talking about Survey V.
Hey Haris, long time no see man, since our Caldari Tech days. Hope things are going well.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.01 15:41:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I dont think they are intended to be common, then they would be on the market with npc blueprints.
Actually, they ARE on the market with NPC blueprints. BPOs cost alsomst nothing, too.
Just not in every region.
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St Dragon
Blood Association of Dragons
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Posted - 2006.12.01 15:46:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Oveur
We're monitoring the drop-rate of Rig components, stay tuned.
Exelent God is watching you rig builders 
-----------------------------------------------
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand |
Harisdrop
Gallente
ClanKillers
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 15:54:00 -
[62]
Originally by: JeanPierre
Originally by: Harisdrop
I need a link where it says they are going to drop it to survey IV...
I'm not sure I've seen specifically "Survey IV". The major req's are Mechanic V and Survey V. It's one of the two. Given as most midbies to oldbies and a good portion of semi-noobs have Mechanic V for various other requirements, and hardly anybody can salvage yet, I guess the thought is they must be talking about Survey V.
Hey Haris, long time no see man, since our Caldari Tech days. Hope things are going well.
Hey,
I would hope they remove Mechanic V from the req. Survey V would make it a profession which we all strive for.
Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead
. Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.
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JeanPierre
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 15:58:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Harisdrop
Originally by: JeanPierre
Originally by: Harisdrop
I need a link where it says they are going to drop it to survey IV...
I'm not sure I've seen specifically "Survey IV". The major req's are Mechanic V and Survey V. It's one of the two. Given as most midbies to oldbies and a good portion of semi-noobs have Mechanic V for various other requirements, and hardly anybody can salvage yet, I guess the thought is they must be talking about Survey V.
Hey Haris, long time no see man, since our Caldari Tech days. Hope things are going well.
Hey,
I would hope they remove Mechanic V from the req. Survey V would make it a profession which we all strive for.
My understanding is that they want more people doing it sooner, hence the immediate patch on Tuesday. Since a lot, lot, lot more people have Mechanic V now, and still can't do it, it would stand to reason it is most likely Survey V being reduced to IV, for better or worse. If it was popping down the Mechanic V to Mechanic IV, the net number of players getting to salvaging quicker would be negligible at best I think. Unless I misunderstood their reasoning for wanting the requirements lowered, which is quite possible.
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Harisdrop
Gallente
ClanKillers
Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 16:04:00 -
[64]
Originally by: JeanPierre
Originally by: Harisdrop
Originally by: JeanPierre
Originally by: Harisdrop
I need a link where it says they are going to drop it to survey IV...
I'm not sure I've seen specifically "Survey IV". The major req's are Mechanic V and Survey V. It's one of the two. Given as most midbies to oldbies and a good portion of semi-noobs have Mechanic V for various other requirements, and hardly anybody can salvage yet, I guess the thought is they must be talking about Survey V.
Hey Haris, long time no see man, since our Caldari Tech days. Hope things are going well.
Hey,
I would hope they remove Mechanic V from the req. Survey V would make it a profession which we all strive for.
My understanding is that they want more people doing it sooner, hence the immediate patch on Tuesday. Since a lot, lot, lot more people have Mechanic V now, and still can't do it, it would stand to reason it is most likely Survey V being reduced to IV, for better or worse. If it was popping down the Mechanic V to Mechanic IV, the net number of players getting to salvaging quicker would be negligible at best I think. Unless I misunderstood their reasoning for wanting the requirements lowered, which is quite possible.
Originally by: Oveur
Just to elaborate on the changes we're looking at:
- Their icon changes (a triangle is filled when it's unlooted)
- Wrecks bump away when you fly past them (they are already tractorable)
- Decrease the pre-req which is a tad high atm (This will be in the Tuesday patch)
- No criminal flag for salvaging (looting still flags you)
I think its good that they keep professions at a diverse skill. I dont think a rank1 skill at level 5 should be too much. I think they should remove mechanic all together.
Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead
. Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:06:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Oveur
We're monitoring the drop-rate of Rig components, stay tuned.
That's nice to hear, but doesn't mean that you'll increase the drop rates, either, just that you're considering doing it.
But most of the confusion that arise now comes from one big question: "How common do you intend them to be?". Rigs in every ships? Or, like +4 implants, toys for the rich?
------------------------------------------
Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:20:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Oveur
We're monitoring the drop-rate of Rig components, stay tuned.
That's nice to hear, but doesn't mean that you'll increase the drop rates, either, just that you're considering doing it.
But most of the confusion that arise now comes from one big question: "How common do you intend them to be?". Rigs in every ships? Or, like +4 implants, toys for the rich?
This is really the big question here. No one has any idea how common rigs are supposed to be. The prevalence of fitting slots on just about everything would seem to indicate they were meant to be very common. The drop rates work against that, but CCPs efforts to get more people salvaging would also seem to mean they want it to be pretty widespread.
IMO, rigs should be common and player ships in the cruiser class and up should pretty much drop an entire rigs worth of components. NPCs should drop substantially less but still more then they do, perhaps 1/10 or 1/20 of a rig's worth.
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Batolemaeus
Caldari
Steel Beasts
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 16:34:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Batolemaeus on 01/12/2006 16:35:29
Mh..
Looted an entire Lvl4-Ecounter Mission with Salvaging 3, and my Salvage-Destroyer (4 Tractors, 4 Salvaging Devices) and didnt loot any components. Before downtime i salvaged 10% of a rig out of that Mission..
Anything wrong? Pure disluck?
Lets see whether it will be the same the next Mission or not..
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Murukan
Minmatar
The Priory
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:38:00 -
[68]
I was looking forward to rigs as on option to further diversify my ship setups. However who the **** in their right mind is going to spend 1.5bil to outfit a t1 ship in rigs? It's ******* retarded and very angering as a facet of the new patch that was looking very fun is unreachable to anyone who doesn't have billions.
And to the people who don't like rigs, just because you're too stupid to figure out good rig setups (it's not like the training takes any time at all, oh noes 5 hours to use them all!) doesn't mean others out there shouldn't be allowed to explore their use.
Currently the system is stupidly broken, components need to be tripled in their drop rate and building reqs should be atleast halved, if not more. A t1 rig should go for like 1mil tops or else why the **** bother with them on anything lower than a bship or a t2 ship? If you want uber expensive rigs then make the t2 ones cost ungodly amounts but the t1 rigs should atleast be attainable for a t1 ship and not stupidly out of place on it.
Manlove by Zaphod Jones
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Leitari
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:42:00 -
[69]
May I suggest you rather have the players solve a virtual rubics cube and then have the wreck yield components instead? would be much faster and less tedious perhaps.....
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Murukan
Minmatar
The Priory
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:44:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Leitari
May I suggest you rather have the players solve a virtual rubics cube and then have the wreck yield components instead? would be much faster and less tedious perhaps.....
haha would be more entertaining too
Manlove by Zaphod Jones
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JeanPierre
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:44:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Murukan
A t1 rig should go for like 1mil tops or else why the **** bother with them on anything lower than a bship or a t2 ship? If you want uber expensive rigs then make the t2 ones cost ungodly amounts but the t1 rigs should atleast be attainable for a t1 ship and not stupidly out of place on it.
This is a great point. It would address both parties - those who want it for everybody (T1) and those who want more 1 billion isk Rich Guy bling bling (T2).
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Katja Frostbane
Amarr
The Valkyries
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:54:00 -
[72]
I think the real question is this: Are rigs ment to be common, every day items, or are they ment to be similar to faction loot in rarity, or somewhere in between. I think its safe to assume that different areas drop different salvage (or at least different NPC's do). I did notice that there are two main factors with getting salvage drops:
1) - Level of the ship you killed (NPC Speaking)
and
2) - Security Level of the System you are in.
I went to wander around in .1, .2, and .3 systems last night for about two hours. I got a drop rate of about 90% in .1, about 80% in .2, and roughly 70% in .3 . I also noticed that "rarer" types of salvage came from better npc's than the typical common NPC. Also it seems the T1 ships vary widely.
Personally I think it gives the salvage profession just that - a profession that is fairly hard, but worthwhile. Certainly larger corps/alliances will want salvagers to come with (Possibly using Support ships in combat, then salvaging after), for the best of both worlds. Having said that I've already lined up a handful of people I am buying them from, so I still have a steady flow coming in. An increase in drop rate of maybe 20% may be in order. Perhaps even a set a drop rate of 1 Frigate, 2 Destroyer, 3 Cruiser, 4 BC, 5 BS may be in order. The best I've seen so far has been 4 in one go. Anything more than this takes away from having this be a profession, while still allowing everyday players to make some ISK.
Oh, and buying all salvage components - EVE Mail me in game for prices :)
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Blind Man
Caldari
Kemono.
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 17:12:00 -
[73]
also was thinking, do we really need more things to make rich people more uber (you can already buy a good char, implant sets, faction mods, etc..)
Sig removed.\o/
It's great flying Amarr, ain't it? |
Stephar
The High Priest
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 17:22:00 -
[74]
I personally won't bother farming rig components unless I can average ~10 mil ISK/hour. You can make just as much mining in high security, and more running level 4's, so that's my minimum baseline. If it takes 6 hours to farm the components for one rig, it's going to cost over 60 million ISK for the buyer. If the buyer is unwilling to pay 60 million, the salvager isn't going to lower prices... he's going to quit salvaging, and do something more profitable.
CCP needs to decide on a baseline price for what one rig should cost, and balance component drops (or material requirements) accordingly. If they going to cost more than 10 million ISK, you might as well remove the rig slots for anything smaller than a battlecruiser. Why would you put a rig on a ship when the rig costs more than the entire ship? CCP also needs to remember that EVE is a PvP game, and if rigs are more readily obtainable, people will more frequently use them for PvP. Rigs will constantly be destroyed, and demand for rigs will always exist.
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Murukan
Minmatar
The Priory
Shroud Of Darkness
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 17:47:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Stephar
I personally won't bother farming rig components unless I can average ~10 mil ISK/hour. You can make just as much mining in high security, and more running level 4's, so that's my minimum baseline. If it takes 6 hours to farm the components for one rig, it's going to cost over 60 million ISK for the buyer. If the buyer is unwilling to pay 60 million, the salvager isn't going to lower prices... he's going to quit salvaging, and do something more profitable.
CCP needs to decide on a baseline price for what one rig should cost, and balance component drops (or material requirements) accordingly. If they going to cost more than 10 million ISK, you might as well remove the rig slots for anything smaller than a battlecruiser. Why would you put a rig on a ship when the rig costs more than the entire ship? CCP also needs to remember that EVE is a PvP game, and if rigs are more readily obtainable, people will more frequently use them for PvP. Rigs will constantly be destroyed, and demand for rigs will always exist.
They really need to reduce the reqs for t1 rigs a lot and increase the drop rates. Or else you're going to have rigs selling for like 40,000% the price of the bpo, which is retarded considering no other t1 item works like that.
Manlove by Zaphod Jones
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JeanPierre
|
Posted - 2006.12.01 17:50:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Stephar
I personally won't bother farming rig components unless I can average ~10 mil ISK/hour. You can make just as much mining in high security, and more running level 4's, so that's my minimum baseline. If it takes 6 hours to farm the components for one rig, it's going to cost over 60 million ISK for the buyer. If the buyer is unwilling to pay 60 million, the salvager isn't going to lower prices... he's going to quit salvaging, and do something more profitable.
Which in turn will lower the prices across the board if enough salvagers do this. Others will train up to fill in the gaps, and price lower for the sale. Eventually the price will go to it's sustained level of whatever, and there you have it.
Quote:
CCP needs to decide on a baseline price for what one rig should cost, and balance component drops (or material requirements) accordingly. If they going to cost more than 10 million ISK, you might as well remove the rig slots for anything smaller than a battlecruiser. Why would you put a rig on a ship when the rig costs more than the entire ship? CCP also needs to remember that EVE is a PvP game, and if rigs are more readily obtainable, people will more frequently use them for PvP. Rigs will constantly be destroyed, and demand for rigs will always exist.
I agree with this 100%.
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Jet Collins
Dynamic Endeavors
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Posted - 2006.12.01 17:52:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Jet Collins on 01/12/2006 18:00:54
Linkage
Sorry helps if I add the link huh
I have started a poll on what people will be willing to pay when they first come out.
Please post your comments relaited to that there.
Jet
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MrLobster
Cosmic Odyssey
Chorus of Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 13:22:00 -
[78]
(didnt see this written here)
Why dont the rats drop the T1 rigs themselves, works well on all T1 Loot :)
Although I dont know if a Named T1 Rig would help.
______
Better? - MrLobster |
ForceM
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Posted - 2006.12.04 14:20:00 -
[79]
Originally by: MrLobster
(didnt see this written here)
Why dont the rats drop the T1 rigs themselves, works well on all T1 Loot :)
Although I dont know if a Named T1 Rig would help.
Cause the same reason why you cannot unfit them or repackage them ... BOOOM when you go ...
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Le Pecarosh
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 14:37:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Baleorg
Originally by: Blind Man
in another thread I saw that it has taken 15 people 2 days to get only 50% of the components needed for ONE rig.
strange. i got around 80% for 1 hybrid rig together, and iam alone and iam mining most of the time
Oh? How exactly you did that?
I've spent 4-5 hours with corpmate, ratting/salvaging. I was popping rats as fast as possible, he was salvaging as fast as possible. I am talking about ratting in 0.0 space, nice -0.5 to -0.8 systems, with nice rats (anything from small frigs, to 1.7mil BSs).
We did it in 2 regions (so that we get 'variety' of drops), and we didn't manage to get even 5% of components needed for a single rig.
So, how exactly did you get 80% of parts for a rig?
Or it is just another "I am so special" type of post?
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Nicocat
Caldari
New Age Solutions
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Posted - 2006.12.04 16:43:00 -
[81]
I'm on the side of thinking that says rigs should be common. Like, 20m apiece, tops for T1 ones. Why? Because I'm all for the unpredictability of pvp. Rigs will throw that extra layer of "Oh, damnit, is he super-tanked against me with a rig? With a falloff buff to outrange my autos with his?" to pvp. I think it's pretty thrilling to go into battle with less and less knowledge of the enemy, because he has the same disadvantage. Intelligence is the key to victory, but I'll be damned if working with what you have and using tactics to beat a suddenly superior fit (then gloating about it =P) isn't fun.
----------------------------
Buying Sabres. EVEmail or convo me in game! |
Nicocat
Caldari
New Age Solutions
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 16:44:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Blind Man
also was thinking, do we really need more things to make rich people more uber (you can already buy a good char, implant sets, faction mods, etc..)
Well, if that's not hypocricy, I don't know what is =P
----------------------------
Buying Sabres. EVEmail or convo me in game! |
DB Preacher
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 16:46:00 -
[83]
Haven't you realised yet?
Everything comes in pre-nerfed in eve.
If the drop rate was massive at the start, the market would be so flooded with rigs that they would be practically free.
Give it 6 months then start complaining if there are not enough rigs around.
Building a whole new player driven market into the game does not and should not happen overnight.
dbp
Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner
Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
|
schurem
Silver Snake Enterprise
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 23:16:00 -
[84]
Originally by: DB Preacher
Haven't you realised yet?
Everything comes in pre-nerfed in eve.
If the drop rate was massive at the start, the market would be so flooded with rigs that they would be practically free.
Give it 6 months then start complaining if there are not enough rigs around.
Building a whole new player driven market into the game does not and should not happen overnight.
dbp
this man speaks truth. listen. understand.
However, I still think EvE needs more and better tactical warning]/B] sounds.
<<<< No Boundaries, No Fences, Fly [b]Free Or Die Trying >>>>
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Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter.
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 23:18:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Oveur
We're monitoring the drop-rate of Rig components, stay tuned.
Are you looking into Invention also? because the drop rate of rig components seems ok, 15 components in a couple minutes ok for me, takes a while to gather but they are like implants and live as long as the ship. Also can you lower skill requirements for exploration probes as you did with Tractor beams and Salvager, because I'm still 12 days away from lvl 5 and it would be very bad to waste more time trainning, like survey 5.
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Xoria Krint
The Movement
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 23:26:00 -
[86]
I disagree.
Did the fifteen people salvage from npc's or PvP wrecks?
---
My Movies
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Black Scorpio
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 23:29:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Baleorg
Originally by: Blind Man
in another thread I saw that it has taken 15 people 2 days to get only 50% of the components needed for ONE rig.
strange. i got around 80% for 1 hybrid rig together, and iam alone and iam mining most of the time
lucky bastard
|
B'Ellana Torres
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 23:35:00 -
[88]
Rigs should be rare and special and so far I'm very happy with the drop rate. There does seem however to be a problem with the ratio of the drops. As one poster noted above things like Fried Circuits etc which are commonly needed in large quantities are very rare, whilst other items which are specific to rig type and not needed in large quantities are dropping 90% of the time. If a builder is forced to buy common parts on the market rather than being able to collect them then the price of rigs will certainly have to reflect that. I, personally, would welcome a balancing of the drop ratio but I would certainly not want to see battleships drop dozens of parts as has been suggested.
Having said all that it is still very early days and it is an extremely welcome addition to the game and very well implemented. CCP deserve a tremendous amount of credit for keeping the game fresh and interesting.
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Merdaneth
|
Posted - 2006.12.04 23:37:00 -
[89]
Question:
Are there different types of rigs for Frigates and Battleships?
Because I would love to create some customized Frigs, but if both use the same rigs, then obviously (considering the projected effort and corresponding cost) nobody will ever equip a Frig with rigs, since just one rig will be more than the cost of the frig several times over.
I'd hate to see it devolve into 'only big expensive ships get rigs'.
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Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 00:03:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Bombcrater
Drops rates need to go up, or build requirements down, for rigs to be anything more than a curiosity.
This is the truth of the matter.
Who in their right mind would invest 500m in one rig? Its ridiculous.
but in EVE time = money, and salvaging is both very time intensive for very low material return compared what you need to build a rig.
Even if you reduced build requirements by 90%, you would still have a valuable and not overly common item.
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Breed Love
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.12.05 00:13:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Eve does not need yet another mechcanisim to further widen the gap between the really rich and the really poor.
Implants and faction mods s well as tech 2 items do that to an unwaviering degree of efficancy.
Rigs, should be moduals that define the role of your ship, it should be the reason why you keep more than one cruiser in your hanger and complement with your specialism in a role or training path.
Rig's should not be another IPWNTHEENOOBWITHLOWSKILLZANDPUNNYISK, they should actually be necessary for certain ship setups to work, not jst another curiosity you'd buy to break another eve epeen contest.
the Sooner the CCP sort this out the better.
QFT. Couldn't have put it better myself.
Imo t1 rigs should be as common as most other t1 mods.
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Serrano Balthar
Section XIII
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.05 00:23:00 -
[92]
drop rate seem good for me execpt we apparently lack of the 4 things who are used for all rings.
Qty are actualty pretty ridiculous, more than 30 hours of salvaging (in belt, from 5-10 Npceurs) and i get 700 componant, i get enought "special for a type of ring" component for 3-4 ring of each type i gather.
But the 4 i get only 25 for the most, 12 for the low and i need qty like 75 / 90 / 130 / 230 (!!!)
How many hours for complete a ring ???
imgine the money you get from agentin empire, now compare with rigs ... imagine the price !!!
just need a tweak on the variaty, qty seem fine for me
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Igvar Thorn arn ! |
Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.12.05 01:33:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Serrano Balthar
drop rate seem good for me execpt we apparently lack of the 4 things who are used for all rings.
Qty are actualty pretty ridiculous, more than 30 hours of salvaging (in belt, from 5-10 Npceurs) and i get 700 componant,
....
i get enought "special for a type of ring" component for 3-4 ring of each type i gather.
....
....
How many hours for complete a ring ???
....
just need a tweak on the variaty, qty seem fine for me
Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Cethrie
Celestial Fleet
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.05 03:51:00 -
[94]
I don't know whether this is true or not but the drop rates have increased, after DT the other day. I did 5 missions prior, salvaged every ship/drone and recieved no components. Ran a mission and salvaged everything again and got 25 components. Either I got insanely lucky or something changed. I will go with something changed. Changed enough that I put up reasonable buy orders for some of the components, I wasn't recieving in the hopes I can build a few rigs.
I truely hope rigs are not the new T1 masquerading as T2. Varied setups means varied PvP. Given I sink all of my isk into PvP, I know I don't have the cash to buy rigs worth 250mil - 400mil. Thats another nighthawk right there. 
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Silenne Otsaku
Amarr
Section XIII
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.05 08:12:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Originally by: Serrano Balthar
...
sorry miss the point, what is funny ?*
to be mroe clear :
for me not enought :
Fried Interface Circuit
Charred Micro Circuit
Tripped Power Circuit
Burned Logic circuit
who are the base of all the rigs.
Nahh no sign for now :p |
ArchenTheGreat
Caldari
Yesodic Nomads Corp
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2006.12.05 08:20:00 -
[96]
Originally by: JeanPierre
You can tell that they're not intended to be common by noting the fact that a Probe has slots for rigs.
Only the most uber of players uses a Probe.
QED
Any rig worth putting on Probe should cost less than 200k. I can get so much by killing rats in ONE belt in 0.3 system. To make it remotely profitable to salvager he should get so much items from wrecks in ONE belt that he can build this rig.
Somehow I don't think CCP will make it.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.05 10:08:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Silenne Otsaku
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Originally by: Serrano Balthar
...
sorry miss the point, what is funny ?*
That's because you kept speaking about "rings" instead of "rigs"...
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Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Silenne Otsaku
Amarr
Section XIII
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.05 10:21:00 -
[98]
raahh i think i will always make this mistake ... always teh "One Rings To COntrol all" stuff ..
so ignore rings and see rigs :p
Nahh no sign for now :p |
Kazuo Ishiguro
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Posted - 2006.12.05 10:29:00 -
[99]
It seems that good things come to those who wait - I heard about the change in the skill requirements for salvaging at just the right time- I've spent the weekend training Astrometrics IV instead, so I can probe down some mission wrecks. Now I hear that the drop rates might be increased, too- could things get any better?
--------------------------------------------
'Friends, when the word of reason has been spoken, there is no place left for retort and resentment and contradiction.'
Odyssey XVIII |
Kraik Graeme
RONA Corporation
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Posted - 2006.12.05 10:31:00 -
[100]
Tbh, I dont mind it taking a long time to gather the parts for a rig. The bpo is cheap so is the module used to gather parts. Wether noob or 50m SP old since beta player. So potentially everybody can make rigs. The only limit is if you are willing to spend some time salvaging. This would in turn really be a good way to balance prices, since the price of rigs will reflect what "time" is worth in eve. IMHO
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.05 11:07:00 -
[101]
I want to add my voice at the suggestion to diversificate the rigs for ship class.
Currently I will sell a completed rig for 40 millions. And it is very improbable that I would mount that on a frigate, even a T2 one.
What most people don't consider is that the only system to change rigs is destroing them. So if a player want to change a ship set up he should destroy all the rigs on that ship.
Maybe the current rigs bonus are too high, they should do only tiny improvements 1-5% at most, or some fixed bonus like +5 grid, but it should be economically feasible to change them often, they shouldn't be a fixed feature.
I see the optimal price ranges in the 200K for frigates, 1-2 millions for cruiser, 10+ for BS, and more for capitals ships.
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Drachma Golea
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Posted - 2006.12.05 11:11:00 -
[102]
Why don't rats drop rigs as loot.. they do with all the other stuff... or in a mission blowing up a tower or so... it drops implants... so why does the rig has to be human built? it's not a ship or something like that...
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Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.05 11:16:00 -
[103]
Rigs are extra slots. Any ship that leaves slots empty is seriously disadvantaged. If these slots become (or remain) very costly, the balance in power between the ones who can afford them and the ones who can't will be tremendous.
I think rigs should be about strategy - what combination you fit - not a matter of have vs have not. One problem in balancing the pricing lies in the fact that rigs are similarly sized for all ship classes - therefore rigging a T1 cruiser is as expensive as rigging a mothership. For the latter a pilot would be certainly willing to pay a lot more.
Something in the 10 million price range for a T1 rig would be decent, in my opinion, but of course that also reflects my own financial status to some extent.
---
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Diablo Venator
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Posted - 2006.12.05 11:19:00 -
[104]
IMO a couple of things needs changing....
The drop rate for salvagable components should not change, but the annoying thing is that EVERY ship now leaves a wreck...
Which means it has made a serious time increase to looting a mission, this will have a knock on effect for EVE economics..
People will stop looting missions as it is no longer worth while, which means named mods will sky rocket in value. Which i can see on one hand being a good thing, but on the other bad...
I personally think that if a ship is blown up and there is nothing to either loot or salvage it should not leave a wreck, this way those who wish to loot and salvage mission can do so in a shorter space of time, those that dont.. dont have to...
Lowering the skill requirements for salvaging is not going to make much of a difference in the long run...
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2006.12.05 11:47:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Jin Entres
Something in the 10 million price range for a T1 rig would be decent, in my opinion, but of course that also reflects my own financial status to some extent.
You must be the tea boy over at the MC cos 10 million ISK would buy about 5 minutes of my time.
If rigs drop to cheaper than T1 implants they will be a colossal disappointment tbh. As long as they are expensive in terms of time, anyone with the commitment to make them can exploit their market value.
Everyone who's moaning about components being rare, stop moaning, go salvage more and make more money. People are paying over 2 mill per unit for some salvage now and it is all dropping. Although the rate on circuits could be increased slightly, the lowered requirements should mean that less skilled characters, newer players to whom 10-20 mill for a few dozen components is a lot of money, will be farming these in bucketloads.
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in? |
Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.05 11:49:00 -
[106]
Originally by: DB Preacher
Haven't you realised yet?
Everything comes in pre-nerfed in eve.
If the drop rate was massive at the start, the market would be so flooded with rigs that they would be practically free.
Give it 6 months then start complaining if there are not enough rigs around.
Building a whole new player driven market into the game does not and should not happen overnight.
dbp
True enough, but something as cool as ship modifications ( which you must admit are cooler then modules ) are a great thing, that should be balanced by their negatives, and should be relatively easy to get, and price effective to fit on all ships.
Although personally I think the one size fits all mentality of rigs is gonna make that problematic.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.05 16:23:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Originally by: Jin Entres
Something in the 10 million price range for a T1 rig would be decent, in my opinion, but of course that also reflects my own financial status to some extent.
You must be the tea boy over at the MC cos 10 million ISK would buy about 5 minutes of my time.
So you win 120 millions/hour?
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
If rigs drop to cheaper than T1 implants they will be a colossal disappointment tbh. As long as they are expensive in terms of time, anyone with the commitment to make them can exploit their market value.
That reasonning is full of holes. If rigs cost too much, no one will use them in 0.0, and no one will use them in low-sec, because of how easy it is now for pirates to find you and gank you.. That leaves high-sec agent runners as potential buyers. Part of them won't use rigs because their gisti-Raven/faction ship is already more than good enough to do missions. And a lot of the remaining players will just buy the materials of the market and produce the rigs themselves.
More so, high-sec mission-running BS don't die very often, so once bought once, agent runners won't replace often their rigs.
If building rigs stay as time consumming is it is currently, that will cause an artificial ultra-high rig production cost, that will strangle potential demand to a trickle, and you won't sell your rigs well.
More than that, there will be hundreds of sellers: Lots of sellers for limited demand = weak margins. Looks at the T1 battleship market, for example, and tell me if the producers do anything like 120 millions/hour profits.
Now looks the other way: Rigs being easily produced -> fairly cheap (2 millions top for T1), every one and their dogs have rigs on their ceptors, cruisers and above. Most big corps will have their own internal production, but there's thousands of players in noob corps/small corps, or big alliance players that prefer rigging their ships with what they have on the market right there, rather than make a trip to wherever their HQ is, even if they pay a few millions more. Scores of rigs lost in pvp/low-sec.
Bottom line is, rig production (and, by extension, wreck-harvesting)will be more profitable if rigs become "must-have" low-profit/high sells mods, than if it stay an overpriced curiosity that will interest only a tiny minority...
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Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Colorado beetle
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Posted - 2006.12.05 19:18:00 -
[108]
Huh - all this forcing to plan and build up rigged ships. Not one but few to do diferent jobs. So i think rigged ships will be expensive ones and they gonna apear in forum market. So i thinkl all fine with rig drop rate. And please remember what price ppl payin for additional percent resist, or beter shield booster. So rigs must be expensive and rare.
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Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.05 19:32:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Originally by: Jin Entres
Something in the 10 million price range for a T1 rig would be decent, in my opinion, but of course that also reflects my own financial status to some extent.
You must be the tea boy over at the MC
How'd you know?
Currently I'm switching between approx. 30 ships, and I'd like to fit all of them with rigs. Let's say half of them are T1 and half T2. At a price of 10m per rig, the total cost would be approx. 750 million. For T1 rigs that would be decent in my opinion.
---
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Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.12.06 08:28:00 -
[110]
i'd be happy with 10mill a rig tbh, especially considering the benifits of some of them.
but alas, the CCP remains adimant that they shall remain borked.
Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
Juan Andalusian
TAOSP
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.12.06 08:38:00 -
[111]
Originally by: DB Preacher
Haven't you realised yet?
Everything comes in pre-nerfed in eve.
T2 economy didnt come prenerfed. Neither did interceptors. Neither did Hacs. Neither did l4 agents.
Etc etc etc... I can understand nerfing the actual rig modules, but bringing em in with a cippled production and economy makes no sense.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
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