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Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.12.01 15:58:00 - [61] Originally by: Glumpumpkin Originally by: Ehrys Marakai 1. People will stop doing missions and start mining, flooding the market, economy in Eve collapses as there is no longer as high demand for modules (no one dying from mission running). 2. People will stop doing missions and leave the game. 3. People will stop doing missions and move to low sec. <-- This would be good, but 80% of players I doubt would be able to. Then you have the problem, what about new players? I honestly don't think that very much demand for modules comes from the running of missions. Once a mission is figured out, or after a player consults eve-info.com for the mission info, the risk of death is infinitesimal. Most of the death and destruction in eve comes from PvP combat in the form of empire wardecs, pirating, and 0.0 combat, but CCP is the only entity that knows well enough to make any decisions. New players are a very important part of the game though, and I wouldn't be opposed to CCP introducing instanced missions as others have suggested in this thread, but only for those missions that benefit new players- levels 1 and 2. Beyond that players need to make the choice to either travel to lowsec alone or take the risk of a griefer coming into you mission and ganking your loot. Higher level missions are disproportionally profitable compared to the level of risk the mission runners face while in deadspace, and I see potentially losing standings and failing the mission as acceptable risk. and how in the f-ing world are you supposed to get your standing to 8 with a corp to use jump clones otherwise? oh wait, do 11111111111111111 mission lvl 1-2s..
Smagd Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:01:00 - [62] Wouldn't it be sort of simpler to nerf scan probing a bit? Surely being able to scan a battleship in less than a minute is a bit too easy. Except I'm not sure even 30 minutes would help with some of the attacks above. -- Thukkers do
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:03:00 - [63] Originally by: Shemar My solution would be to simply mark all wrecks/loot dropping from missions drones as belonging to the mission owner no matter who kills the NPCs. That gives mission runners the same chance to fight back as the miners, more actually as missions runners are more likely to be in a ship capable of fighting the griefer off. Additionally make mission critical loot only lootable by the mission owner. That will at least prevent people simply trying to ruin other people's missions for the sake of griefing and not profit. No it doesn't, mission runner fitting != PvP fitting.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:05:00 - [64] Originally by: Roy Batty68 Originally by: Black Scorpio and alt, you can shove it This is my main, not that it matters as far as the point in the discussion goes. But way to go on a logical, well thought out response. /clap Just because you want to continue to feel safe in your mission dead space area does not make me wrong in my comparison to instancing. If you want CCP to implement instancing to keep you safe, then man up and just say that. Don't lash out at me because you're too embarassed to admit it. man up, lol how g..hay is that.. lol
Glumpumpkin House Elf Liberation Front	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:06:00 - [65] Originally by: Black Scorpio and how in the f-ing world are you supposed to get your standing to 8 with a corp to use jump clones otherwise? oh wait, do 11111111111111111 mission lvl 1-2s.. Join a mission running corp in lowsec and always keep a gang up. If you get jumped call in your friends for reinforcement. Or you can take a bit of a risk and run Levels 3 and 4 missions in highsec without any support. You're blowing isolated reports of a few griefers way out of proportion, and trying to use them to ruin a tool that improves gameplay for the rest of us.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:09:00 - [66] Originally by: Glumpumpkin Originally by: Black Scorpio and how in the f-ing world are you supposed to get your standing to 8 with a corp to use jump clones otherwise? oh wait, do 11111111111111111 mission lvl 1-2s.. Join a mission running corp in lowsec and always keep a gang up. If you get jumped call in your friends for reinforcement. Or you can take a bit of a risk and run Levels 3 and 4 missions in highsec without any support. You're blowing isolated reports of a few griefers way out of proportion, and trying to use them to ruin a tool that improves gameplay for the rest of us. no i am not blowing an isolated accident. I had a friendly pilot show up the 1st day after Kali in a lvl4 mission in low sec just testing the new probes. Do you know what she said? "I just shot a 20AU probe, and your mission came up the first time.. i guess it was luck.. oh well just testing the new system!" sorry dude, but anyone just "testing" a system to find it out like that is simply waayy to ridiculous to be in effect. Isn't that why people shouted at ECM?
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:11:00 - [67] This has always been there. I dont think its a major problem. Thats the risk you en cure when you mission in high sec this is YOUR risk. Your reward out weighs this greatly. I guess you fail the mission dont you. I would say this promotes low sec mission running. The reward and risk is more balanced I say YEAH for CCP. They tools are here now adapt. Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead . Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.
Hans Roaming Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:14:00 - [68] Originally by: Glumpumpkin I'm not going to defend the theif's actions, but continued theivery means the theif risks his bounty moving to lowsec so that they have the right to shoot him when he invades their mission. I'm all for risk reward but do you feel that someone in an NPC corp warping in, looting the mission objective and warping off whilst someone else is fighting the spawn is balanced by the risk that the people they do this to will go off and do missions elsewhere? There should be some risk yes but there is none to stealing other peoples mission objectives in an NPC corp. Am not sure what the solution is maybe something like the agent gives the person and gang members fake ID codes (basically the mission runner and his gang can pass) so they can use the gates but anyone else outside the gang can bust those gates using the hacking skills that are avail in the game?
Sebastien LeReparteur Minmatar SpaceTravelers Freelance Corp	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:15:00 - [69] Originally by: Harisdrop This has always been there. I dont think its a major problem. Thats the risk you en cure when you mission in high sec this is YOUR risk. Your reward out weighs this greatly. I guess you fail the mission dont you. I would say this promotes low sec mission running. The reward and risk is more balanced I say YEAH for CCP. They tools are here now adapt. If have no troubles with high mission being a bit more tough. But safe high sec griefing I definitively have a trouble with. When someone one can pop in and screw you up completely without any risk to himself and says that you are just a care bear mission runner. I say to my self that is a freaking low life care bear pirate.
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:15:00 - [70] Originally by: Naran Darkmood It's one think to pirate good mission loot - if there is anything like it left anyway. What happens if those guys start hi-jacking mission by graping critical loot, like the special item in Duo of Death. Mission is reported as complete, so it won't respawn even after DT and you can't complete the mission anymore. Critical items are easy to recognize nowadays, as they still drop in a can. "Pay me or fail the mission? YARR!" Does mission running boil down to being ***ed by all? HAHAHA, OMG, the pirates are going to love this. Hell, I think I might try this. Thats my kind of piracy... now where are* those mission hubs? ______________________________________________ Such a heavy burden now to be the one Born to bear and bring to all The details of our ending
Skunrah Eve's Brothers of Destiny The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:16:00 - [71] I guess I'm glad I took the billion or so I made mission running and invested in a Battleship BPO :/ cuz I wont be making money off missions anymore... Skunrah Director - Eve Brothers of Destiny
Hellspawn01 Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:17:00 - [72] Originally by: Hans Roaming Originally by: Glumpumpkin I'm not going to defend the theif's actions, but continued theivery means the theif risks his bounty moving to lowsec so that they have the right to shoot him when he invades their mission. I'm all for risk reward but do you feel that someone in an NPC corp warping in, looting the mission objective and warping off whilst someone else is fighting the spawn is balanced by the risk that the people they do this to will go off and do missions elsewhere? There should be some risk yes but there is none to stealing other peoples mission objectives in an NPC corp. Am not sure what the solution is maybe something like the agent gives the person and gang members fake ID codes (basically the mission runner and his gang can pass) so they can use the gates but anyone else outside the gang can bust those gates using the hacking skills that are avail in the game? Thats a good idea actually. Ship lovers click here
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:19:00 - [73] Originally by: Hans Roaming Originally by: Glumpumpkin I'm not going to defend the theif's actions, but continued theivery means the theif risks his bounty moving to lowsec so that they have the right to shoot him when he invades their mission. I'm all for risk reward but do you feel that someone in an NPC corp warping in, looting the mission objective and warping off whilst someone else is fighting the spawn is balanced by the risk that the people they do this to will go off and do missions elsewhere? There should be some risk yes but there is none to stealing other peoples mission objectives in an NPC corp. Am not sure what the solution is maybe something like the agent gives the person and gang members fake ID codes (basically the mission runner and his gang can pass) so they can use the gates but anyone else outside the gang can bust those gates using the hacking skills that are avail in the game? Where does this end. I am in an astroid belt someone warps in a hulk and strips everything. I am in a belt shooting npc and someone shoots it before i can. I place an item on the market at a fair price and someone undercuts me. That person is in a NPC corp. I think I know the problem. Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead . Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:28:00 - [74] Originally by: Harisdrop Originally by: Hans Roaming Originally by: Glumpumpkin I'm not going to defend the theif's actions, but continued theivery means the theif risks his bounty moving to lowsec so that they have the right to shoot him when he invades their mission. I'm all for risk reward but do you feel that someone in an NPC corp warping in, looting the mission objective and warping off whilst someone else is fighting the spawn is balanced by the risk that the people they do this to will go off and do missions elsewhere? There should be some risk yes but there is none to stealing other peoples mission objectives in an NPC corp. Am not sure what the solution is maybe something like the agent gives the person and gang members fake ID codes (basically the mission runner and his gang can pass) so they can use the gates but anyone else outside the gang can bust those gates using the hacking skills that are avail in the game? Where does this end. I am in an astroid belt someone warps in a hulk and strips everything. I am in a belt shooting npc and someone shoots it before i can. I place an item on the market at a fair price and someone undercuts me. That person is in a NPC corp. I think I know the problem. In all of these you do not lose standing towards an agent, which is primarily why missions are run. Also you don't waste 4 hours of your time to have some f.ck come and bust your mission loot and zip off... In none of the other cases you're being shot at by 10-20 ships, while having a player warp in, in high sec, that's leaving you helpless., in low sec means you're dead !
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:32:00 - [75] Originally by: Black Scorpio In all of these you do not lose standing towards an agent, which is primarily why missions are run. Also you don't waste 4 hours of your time to have some f.ck come and bust your mission loot and zip off... In none of the other cases you're being shot at by 10-20 ships, while having a player warp in, in high sec, that's leaving you helpless., in low sec means you're dead ! Nothing is broken. It is player-controlled node balancing. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:34:00 - [76] Originally by: Black Scorpio Originally by: Harisdrop Originally by: Hans Roaming Originally by: Glumpumpkin I'm not going to defend the theif's actions, but continued theivery means the theif risks his bounty moving to lowsec so that they have the right to shoot him when he invades their mission. I'm all for risk reward but do you feel that someone in an NPC corp warping in, looting the mission objective and warping off whilst someone else is fighting the spawn is balanced by the risk that the people they do this to will go off and do missions elsewhere? There should be some risk yes but there is none to stealing other peoples mission objectives in an NPC corp. Am not sure what the solution is maybe something like the agent gives the person and gang members fake ID codes (basically the mission runner and his gang can pass) so they can use the gates but anyone else outside the gang can bust those gates using the hacking skills that are avail in the game? Where does this end. I am in an astroid belt someone warps in a hulk and strips everything. I am in a belt shooting npc and someone shoots it before i can. I place an item on the market at a fair price and someone undercuts me. That person is in a NPC corp. I think I know the problem. In all of these you do not lose standing towards an agent, which is primarily why missions are run. Also you don't waste 4 hours of your time to have some f.ck come and bust your mission loot and zip off... In none of the other cases you're being shot at by 10-20 ships, while having a player warp in, in high sec, that's leaving you helpless., in low sec means you're dead ! Answer my question. If an NPC corporation player does this you can not do anything back. If he is in a player corp you can if you want to war dec. Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead . Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:34:00 - [77] Originally by: Smagd Surely being able to scan a battleship in less than a minute is a bit too easy. Wonder if it's safe to log on safespot then. I don't log in combat, but if I escape to safe and then warp from safe to safe for 10 minutes without getting cought, then I think I have shown that they don't get me and I think I've 'won' that situation. So if I want to leave the game, I should be able to do so, without getting killed. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:36:00 - [78] the new scan probe system is great, ain't it?? ___________________ EVE: Revelations - The Game for Carebears and Gankbears no more skill needed for PvP - only skillpoints for Large Bubble and CovOps n00b-alts
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:36:00 - [79] Scanning is as it should be. Its a tough thing to train. Gank squads will never be the same. Having the defender of space with more tools is good. Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead . Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.
Eilene Fernite	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:41:00 - [80] I'll make a prediction. Mission runners are going to start whinethread after whinethread. A lot of suggestions on how to fix this will come up. One of those will get the upperhand, and eventually CCP will adapt it, and announce they'll bring it into the game, perhaps modified a little. People are going to warn the mission runners that they should be careful what they ask for, the mission runners are too busy rejoicing to read the warnings. Ten minutes after the servers come up after having the 'fix' installed with a patch, the first mission runners are being ganked. Not only missing out on their missions, but losing their precious t2 fitted ravens by the dozens. Don't believe me? Ask the miners that wanted can flagging.
Uggster Caldari Never'where	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:41:00 - [81] Keep scam probes as they are. As someone that has delt with logging opponants and SS'ed fleets/alts/whatever for arges it's great to know that all that old sh1t is now blown out of the water in less that 300 seconds. So what if a few mission runners get a bit of loot nicked it wont kill them and it may even give them a hint of a clue about how to fight back at some point. _______________________________________________ Sig removed as inappropriate- Tirg Story of my life that one :(
Roy Batty68	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:43:00 - [82] I think if you want to focus on anything it needs to be what has changed with Revelations. And that is basically the difficulty of using scan probes. It's gone from pretty stupid complicated to pretty stupid easy. That doesn't justify making changes to mission warp in gates or anything else that didn't change with this expansion. Originally by: Big Al Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.
Hennry Fromer Gallente radiated space gerbils	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:44:00 - [83] Originally by: Locke DieDrake HAHAHA, OMG, the pirates are going to love this. Hell, I think I might try this. Thats my kind of piracy... now where are those mission hubs? That is no kind of piracy - just like blobbing and ganking single targets it's weak. Pirates have BALLS, that takes none and only causes the other player grief. If this is done from an NPC corp it reaches levels of lameness not seen since the disco era. I see a lot of people are replying pro griefing, the best way to kill any game is to stop getting new players into it. To CCP any new account is good revenue but a new player (potentially) has friends he can invite &/or tell about the cool new game, an alt already has.
Hennry Fromer Gallente radiated space gerbils	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:51:00 - [84] Don't key the gates, key the goal if it is a specific item - we already have giant secure cans so the mission comes with a code. Problem solved minimal changes. If you mission area is infested with people either fight them or wait they will either stay for the fight ,hours of camping, or find something better to do with thier time.
OneSock	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:52:00 - [85] Well really, it's not like it was impossible before the patch. But you know it's entirely possible for someone to probe out a Lv4 runner, and follow him through looting and salvaging. Even if you get an agro timer for stealing from cans, if you in the previous deadspace pockets, i'd like to see the av lv4 BS come back round through the plex in 15 mins. It's free loot effectively. the only saving grace at the moment is the stupidly high price of probes....
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.12.01 16:56:00 - [86] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Black Scorpio In all of these you do not lose standing towards an agent, which is primarily why missions are run. Also you don't waste 4 hours of your time to have some f.ck come and bust your mission loot and zip off... In none of the other cases you're being shot at by 10-20 ships, while having a player warp in, in high sec, that's leaving you helpless., in low sec means you're dead ! Nothing is broken. It is player-controlled node balancing. Coming from a T2 BPO holder and one that barely does missions anymore, I find your opinion hard to count...
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.12.01 17:12:00 - [87] Originally by: Plutoinum Originally by: Smagd Surely being able to scan a battleship in less than a minute is a bit too easy. Wonder if it's safe to log on safespot then. I don't log in combat, but if I escape to safe and then warp from safe to safe for 10 minutes without getting cought, then I think I have shown that they don't get me and I think I've 'won' that situation. So if I want to leave the game, I should be able to do so, without getting killed. This is really viable for smaller corps... or maybe we should all join a corp with 100+ members just so the mission aspect is available?
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.12.01 17:15:00 - [88] Originally by: Harisdrop Scanning is as it should be. Its a tough thing to train. Gank squads will never be the same. Having the defender of space with more tools is good. That's all that can be asked for, a little more defensive tools, right now there are none EFFECTIVE ones..
Greenbolt	Posted - 2006.12.01 17:17:00 - [89] Edited by: Greenbolt on 01/12/2006 17:18:16 Easier solution. get rid of retreive specific item missions. problem solved. A pirate warps in and kills the uber tough ship at the end and gets the loot/isk bounty..good for him. you still finish the mission and get lp rewards or whatnot. Remember failing a mission because you cant complete it to a griefer costs you several weeks mission running at high end. I mission ran alot to help get my corp into jump clones with a npc corp. 1 failed mission because I goofed off and ran a tougher mission at 4am and died cost me about 2 weeks of mission running . (Went from 9.95 to 9.4 which in a 8-10 man corp makes a big difference). What the thieves are doing in this case is pure griefing. Griefing should be petitionable. :) (And no I do not fly a uber fit raven..minmatar spec all the way so missions are never on 'easy' mode for me)
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2006.12.01 17:19:00 - [90] Originally by: Uggster Keep scam probes as they are. As someone that has delt with logging opponants and SS'ed fleets/alts/whatever for arges it's great to know that all that old sh1t is now blown out of the water in less that 300 seconds. So what if a few mission runners get a bit of loot nicked it wont kill them and it may even give them a hint of a clue about how to fight back at some point. Did you train the probing skills to grief mission runners? I dont think so, noone who originally trained the probe skills did. I don't think why would it be made a primary focus of people with probes and nothing else to do but grief other players. Implement a defense... as any other game tactic has in game..

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