Originally by: Patch86

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I'm assuming he didn't get criminally flagged because he got the killing blow on the NPC?

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Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead

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. Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.

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Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead

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. Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.

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Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead

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. Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.

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Originally by: Lord WarATron

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Can theft is one thing... Mission loot theft by jumping in... Lol.


Actually I can see someone pirating in high sec with it. Wait till the mission runner gets scrambled by NPC's, then uncloak, aggro all and warp out. Come back in and cloak while the mission runner is forced to tank everything, possibly dieing in the process....

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Originally by: Harisdrop

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Another reason to nerf NPC corps. Push them to a freelance status where they dont have any corp. Can be killed by all. Outcasts and heretics.

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Originally by: Jiekon

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From what i`m aware of, reading the game rules, it's not against any rules to mine

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Originally by: VeNT

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maybe the agent should give you a "key" to the deadspace area? that would solve everyone's deadspace issues in 0.0-1.0 yeah? can't get into deadspace without key, can't get key without the agent.

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Originally by: Glumpumpkin

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Every lucrative stream of income in EVE requires some form of risk. The way I see it is CCP finally got around to putting missions on the same level as other forms of earning.

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Originally by: Glumpumpkin

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Every lucrative stream of income in EVE requires some form of risk. The way I see it is CCP finally got around to putting missions on the same level as other forms of earning.

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Originally by: Kuolematon

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Ouch!

New way to grief players! *writes down*

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Originally by: Glumpumpkin

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Every lucrative stream of income in EVE requires some form of risk. The way I see it is CCP finally got around to putting missions on the same level as other forms of earning.

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Originally by: Forino Ovoli

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Originally by: Glumpumpkin

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Every lucrative stream of income in EVE requires some form of risk. The way I see it is CCP finally got around to putting missions on the same level as other forms of earning.

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And when someone takes a level 4 mission, that "Risk" you talk about is from the enemies they expect to fight.

The player is making a conscious choice to participate in a PvE mission.

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Originally by: Makree

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And what risk did the thief take? The OP was fighting the NPCs, the thief didn't even have to worry about them.

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Originally by: Herculite

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....
Local means even the biggest, stupidest care bear can tell who is hostile.
...

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Originally by: Makree

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Hmm, I wonder how long it will be before instancing is introduced to Eve?

Cause if the player who like to run missions, can't even run them in high sec space they are gonna leave. And you can be sure CCP won't let that happen.

Gawd, the more I see of this patch, the more I hate it.

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Originally by: schurem

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I like the gate key idea. The mechanics needed are already in, as there's quite a few mission which have locked gates, opened by keys.
Have the agent issue a key. If you have to warp out, ask for another one at the agent, or maybe have him issue a couple of them. Whatever, easy to work out.
Oveur, you getting this?

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Originally by: Makree

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Hmm, I wonder how long it will be before instancing is introduced to Eve?

Cause if the player who like to run missions, can't even run them in high sec space they are gonna leave. And you can be sure CCP won't let that happen.

Gawd, the more I see of this patch, the more I hate it.

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Originally by: Herculite

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The problem I have with this patch is its taking more skill elements out of the game.

Scanning probing got way to easy.
Local means even the biggest, stupidest care bear can tell who is hostile.
Warp to zero is fine gate to gate, but since it works anywhere in the system you don't have to be clever with your off plane warps to make them work as an insta.

Its a bit of wussification of eve. I want the lazy and stupid punished and the smart and clever rewarded. Instead things just got easier.

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Originally by: Xsag

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isnt that going to cause a problem for people that do missions in gangs?

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Originally by: Ishana

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THE NEW SCANNING SYSTEM IS TO GOOD!!!

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Originally by: Smagd

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Originally by: Lord WarATron

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Can theft is one thing... Mission loot theft by jumping in... Lol.


Actually I can see someone pirating in high sec with it. Wait till the mission runner gets scrambled by NPC's, then uncloak, aggro all and warp out. Come back in and cloak while the mission runner is forced to tank everything, possibly dieing in the process....

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Haha ... .waaiit ...

Very funny: Now I'm not sure what prospect scares me more - running missions in low-sec, or in high-sec.

Tell you what, maybe I'll start using mission deadspace as pirate-bait. I hear they drop better loot than mission NPCs anyway.

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Originally by: Glumpumpkin

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Rather good text which I had to delete to save space.

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Originally by: Big Al

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Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.

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Originally by: schurem

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I like the gate key idea. The mechanics needed are already in, as there's quite a few mission which have locked gates, opened by keys.
Have the agent issue a key. If you have to warp out, ask for another one at the agent, or maybe have him issue a couple of them. Whatever, easy to work out.
Oveur, you getting this?

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Originally by: Glumpumpkin

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Originally by: Ishana

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THE NEW SCANNING SYSTEM IS TO GOOD!!!

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GUYS IM NOT INVULNERABLE ANYMORE IN MY DEADSPACE MISSION NERF SCANNING OR I SWEAR LOTS OF OTHER PLAYERS SIMILAR TO ME WILL QUIT

OH I WONT QUIT MYSELF ILL JUST COMPLAIN ON THESE FORUMS BUT I AM SURE PEOPLE WILL BE LEAVING IN DROVES


please read the 'how scanning changes affect 0.0' in my above post

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Originally by: schurem

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I like the gate key idea. The mechanics needed are already in, as there's quite a few mission which have locked gates, opened by keys.
Have the agent issue a key. If you have to warp out, ask for another one at the agent, or maybe have him issue a couple of them. Whatever, easy to work out.
Oveur, you getting this?

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Originally by: Glumpumpkin

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Originally by: Ishana

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THE NEW SCANNING SYSTEM IS TO GOOD!!!

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GUYS IM NOT INVULNERABLE ANYMORE IN MY DEADSPACE MISSION NERF SCANNING OR I SWEAR LOTS OF OTHER PLAYERS SIMILAR TO ME WILL QUIT

OH I WONT QUIT MYSELF ILL JUST COMPLAIN ON THESE FORUMS BUT I AM SURE PEOPLE WILL BE LEAVING IN DROVES


please read the 'how scanning changes affect 0.0' in my above post

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Originally by: Kelkyen

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I may just be a noob, but if someone just jumps into a mission of mine, whats stopping me jumping out and letting everything gank the thief? They don't know which npc type I'd be fighing and may not have the right resists, and with all the scanner stuff and the speed somethings gotta give on their end.

The mission runner could end up with some nice loot too.

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Originally by: Ehrys Marakai

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1. People will stop doing missions and start mining, flooding the market, economy in Eve collapses as there is no longer as high demand for modules (no one dying from mission running).
2. People will stop doing missions and leave the game.
3. People will stop doing missions and move to low sec. <-- This would be good, but 80% of players I doubt would be able to.

Then you have the problem, what about new players?

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Originally by: Kelkyen

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I may just be a noob, but if someone just jumps into a mission of mine, whats stopping me jumping out and letting everything gank the thief? They don't know which npc type I'd be fighing and may not have the right resists, and with all the scanner stuff and the speed somethings gotta give on their end.

The mission runner could end up with some nice loot too.

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Originally by: Ehrys Marakai

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3. Allow people to be shot without CONCORD interference when in deadspace missions. <-- I prefer this idea.

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Originally by: Roy Batty68

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Gate keys = instancing

If they implement such a solution, they need to stop promoting EVE as a "no instancing" type of game. Because for all practical purposes, there really is no difference between "instances" and "locked gate dead spaces".

If anything, CCP needs to seriously consider getting rid of the keys needed for other complexes. Not make more.

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Originally by: Dreamdancer

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Originally by: schurem

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I like the gate key idea. The mechanics needed are already in, as there's quite a few mission which have locked gates, opened by keys.
Have the agent issue a key. If you have to warp out, ask for another one at the agent, or maybe have him issue a couple of them. Whatever, easy to work out.
Oveur, you getting this?

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I like the gate key idea as well, but it needs to be a use it once and all your gang mates can use it even if they get there a bit late or as what many do now, the main tanker goes in and grabs agro then other warpin to help. If each needs to have a key it'll be a pain.

Otherwise activities such as I do regularly are gonna be killed. These are I like to do lvl 4 missions and like to bring along new members of our corp to show them some big rats and to let them get some serious isk. Plus they can feel they've earned the isk by killing the frigs I'd have had to waste many cruise missiles on. If we all warp in together the NPC's agro the weakest target by default. Pop goes a new player.

So all that needs done is add a mission key and the mission leader uses it and anyone ganged with him can access the gate once it is used.

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Originally by: Dreamdancer

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Sadly they aren't gonna help you kill npc's. They are gonna kill one or two and warp out. Leaving you to deal with a whole room worth of NPC's. If they wanted to kill npc's they would simply do missions themselves.

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Originally by: Black Scorpio

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and alt, you can shove it

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Originally by: Big Al

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Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.

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Originally by: Glumpumpkin

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Originally by: Ehrys Marakai

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1. People will stop doing missions and start mining, flooding the market, economy in Eve collapses as there is no longer as high demand for modules (no one dying from mission running).
2. People will stop doing missions and leave the game.
3. People will stop doing missions and move to low sec. <-- This would be good, but 80% of players I doubt would be able to.

Then you have the problem, what about new players?

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I honestly don't think that very much demand for modules comes from the running of missions. Once a mission is figured out, or after a player consults eve-info.com for the mission info, the risk of death is infinitesimal. Most of the death and destruction in eve comes from PvP combat in the form of empire wardecs, pirating, and 0.0 combat, but CCP is the only entity that knows well enough to make any decisions.

New players are a very important part of the game though, and I wouldn't be opposed to CCP introducing instanced missions as others have suggested in this thread, but only for those missions that benefit new players- levels 1 and 2. Beyond that players need to make the choice to either travel to lowsec alone or take the risk of a griefer coming into you mission and ganking your loot.

Higher level missions are disproportionally profitable compared to the level of risk the mission runners face while in deadspace, and I see potentially losing standings and failing the mission as acceptable risk.

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Originally by: Shemar

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My solution would be to simply mark all wrecks/loot dropping from missions drones as belonging to the mission owner no matter who kills the NPCs. That gives mission runners the same chance to fight back as the miners, more actually as missions runners are more likely to be in a ship capable of fighting the griefer off.

Additionally make mission critical loot only lootable by the mission owner. That will at least prevent people simply trying to ruin other people's missions for the sake of griefing and not profit.

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Originally by: Roy Batty68

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Originally by: Black Scorpio

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and alt, you can shove it

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This is my main, not that it matters as far as the point in the discussion goes. But way to go on a logical, well thought out response. /clap

Just because you want to continue to feel safe in your mission dead space area does not make me wrong in my comparison to instancing.


If you want CCP to implement instancing to keep you safe, then man up and just say that. Don't lash out at me because you're too embarassed to admit it.

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Originally by: Black Scorpio

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and how in the f-ing world are you supposed to get your standing to 8 with a corp to use jump clones otherwise? oh wait, do 11111111111111111 mission lvl 1-2s..

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Originally by: Glumpumpkin

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Originally by: Black Scorpio

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and how in the f-ing world are you supposed to get your standing to 8 with a corp to use jump clones otherwise? oh wait, do 11111111111111111 mission lvl 1-2s..

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Join a mission running corp in lowsec and always keep a gang up. If you get jumped call in your friends for reinforcement.

Or you can take a bit of a risk and run Levels 3 and 4 missions in highsec without any support. You're blowing isolated reports of a few griefers way out of proportion, and trying to use them to ruin a tool that improves gameplay for the rest of us.

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Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead

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. Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.

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Originally by: Glumpumpkin

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I'm not going to defend the theif's actions, but continued theivery means the theif risks his bounty moving to lowsec so that they have the right to shoot him when he invades their mission.

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Originally by: Harisdrop

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This has always been there.

I dont think its a major problem. Thats the risk you en cure when you mission in high sec this is YOUR risk. Your reward out weighs this greatly. I guess you fail the mission dont you.

I would say this promotes low sec mission running. The reward and risk is more balanced I say YEAH for CCP. They tools are here now adapt.

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Originally by: Naran Darkmood

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It's one think to pirate good mission loot - if there is anything like it left anyway.
What happens if those guys start hi-jacking mission by graping critical loot, like the special item in Duo of Death. Mission is reported as complete, so it won't respawn even after DT and you can't complete the mission anymore.

Critical items are easy to recognize nowadays, as they still drop in a can.

"Pay me or fail the mission? YARR!"

Does mission running boil down to being ****ed by all?

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Originally by: Hans Roaming

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Originally by: Glumpumpkin

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I'm not going to defend the theif's actions, but continued theivery means the theif risks his bounty moving to lowsec so that they have the right to shoot him when he invades their mission.

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I'm all for risk reward but do you feel that someone in an NPC corp warping in, looting the mission objective and warping off whilst someone else is fighting the spawn is balanced by the risk that the people they do this to will go off and do missions elsewhere?

There should be some risk yes but there is none to stealing other peoples mission objectives in an NPC corp. Am not sure what the solution is maybe something like the agent gives the person and gang members fake ID codes (basically the mission runner and his gang can pass) so they can use the gates but anyone else outside the gang can bust those gates using the hacking skills that are avail in the game?

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Originally by: Hans Roaming

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Originally by: Glumpumpkin

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I'm not going to defend the theif's actions, but continued theivery means the theif risks his bounty moving to lowsec so that they have the right to shoot him when he invades their mission.

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I'm all for risk reward but do you feel that someone in an NPC corp warping in, looting the mission objective and warping off whilst someone else is fighting the spawn is balanced by the risk that the people they do this to will go off and do missions elsewhere?

There should be some risk yes but there is none to stealing other peoples mission objectives in an NPC corp. Am not sure what the solution is maybe something like the agent gives the person and gang members fake ID codes (basically the mission runner and his gang can pass) so they can use the gates but anyone else outside the gang can bust those gates using the hacking skills that are avail in the game?

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Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead

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. Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.

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Originally by: Harisdrop

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Originally by: Hans Roaming

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Originally by: Glumpumpkin

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I'm not going to defend the theif's actions, but continued theivery means the theif risks his bounty moving to lowsec so that they have the right to shoot him when he invades their mission.

---

I'm all for risk reward but do you feel that someone in an NPC corp warping in, looting the mission objective and warping off whilst someone else is fighting the spawn is balanced by the risk that the people they do this to will go off and do missions elsewhere?

There should be some risk yes but there is none to stealing other peoples mission objectives in an NPC corp. Am not sure what the solution is maybe something like the agent gives the person and gang members fake ID codes (basically the mission runner and his gang can pass) so they can use the gates but anyone else outside the gang can bust those gates using the hacking skills that are avail in the game?

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Where does this end.

I am in an astroid belt someone warps in a hulk and strips everything.
I am in a belt shooting npc and someone shoots it before i can.
I place an item on the market at a fair price and someone undercuts me.

That person is in a NPC corp. I think I know the problem.

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Originally by: Black Scorpio

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In all of these you do not lose standing towards an agent, which is primarily why missions are run.

Also you don't waste 4 hours of your time to have some f.ck come and bust your mission loot and zip off...

In none of the other cases you're being shot at by 10-20 ships, while having a player warp in, in high sec, that's leaving you helpless., in low sec means you're dead !

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Originally by: Black Scorpio

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Originally by: Harisdrop

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Originally by: Hans Roaming

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Originally by: Glumpumpkin

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I'm not going to defend the theif's actions, but continued theivery means the theif risks his bounty moving to lowsec so that they have the right to shoot him when he invades their mission.

---

I'm all for risk reward but do you feel that someone in an NPC corp warping in, looting the mission objective and warping off whilst someone else is fighting the spawn is balanced by the risk that the people they do this to will go off and do missions elsewhere?

There should be some risk yes but there is none to stealing other peoples mission objectives in an NPC corp. Am not sure what the solution is maybe something like the agent gives the person and gang members fake ID codes (basically the mission runner and his gang can pass) so they can use the gates but anyone else outside the gang can bust those gates using the hacking skills that are avail in the game?

---

Where does this end.

I am in an astroid belt someone warps in a hulk and strips everything.
I am in a belt shooting npc and someone shoots it before i can.
I place an item on the market at a fair price and someone undercuts me.

That person is in a NPC corp. I think I know the problem.

---

In all of these you do not lose standing towards an agent, which is primarily why missions are run.

Also you don't waste 4 hours of your time to have some f.ck come and bust your mission loot and zip off...

In none of the other cases you're being shot at by 10-20 ships, while having a player warp in, in high sec, that's leaving you helpless., in low sec means you're dead !

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Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead

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. Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.

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Originally by: Smagd

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Surely being able to scan a battleship in less than a minute is a bit too easy.

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Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead

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. Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.

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Originally by: Big Al

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Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.

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Originally by: Locke DieDrake

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HAHAHA, OMG, the pirates are going to love this.

Hell, I think I might try this. Thats my kind of piracy... now where are those mission hubs?

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Originally by: Black Scorpio

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In all of these you do not lose standing towards an agent, which is primarily why missions are run.

Also you don't waste 4 hours of your time to have some f.ck come and bust your mission loot and zip off...

In none of the other cases you're being shot at by 10-20 ships, while having a player warp in, in high sec, that's leaving you helpless., in low sec means you're dead !

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Nothing is broken. It is player-controlled node balancing.

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Originally by: Plutoinum

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Originally by: Smagd

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Surely being able to scan a battleship in less than a minute is a bit too easy.

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Wonder if it's safe to log on safespot then.

I don't log in combat, but if I escape to safe and then warp from safe to safe for 10 minutes without getting cought, then I think I have shown that they don't get me and I think I've 'won' that situation.
So if I want to leave the game, I should be able to do so, without getting killed.

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Originally by: Harisdrop

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Scanning is as it should be. Its a tough thing to train.

Gank squads will never be the same. Having the defender of space with more tools is good.

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Originally by: Uggster

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Keep scam probes as they are.


As someone that has delt with logging opponants and SS'ed fleets/alts/whatever for arges it's great to know that all that old sh1t is now blown out of the water in less that 300 seconds.


So what if a few mission runners get a bit of loot nicked it wont kill them and it may even give them a hint of a clue about how to fight back at some point.

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Originally by: Greenbolt

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What the thieves are doing in this case is pure griefing.
Griefing should be petitionable.
:)

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Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead

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. Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.

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Originally by: Hennry Fromer

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Don't key the gates, key the goal if it is a specific item - we already have giant secure cans so the mission comes with a code. Problem solved minimal changes.

If you mission area is infested with people either fight them or wait they will either stay for the fight ,hours of camping, or find something better to do with thier time.

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Originally by: Harisdrop

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Originally by: Greenbolt

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What the thieves are doing in this case is pure griefing.
Griefing should be petitionable.
:)

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I dont understand this. How can this be griefing. He is not using the game mechanics against you. He is using it with you. He does no harm to your ship your loot your mission. He does get your mission item.

CCP will not ever goto instance missions. They want the galaxy to be a place to PVP. I just think you should have a recourse to go after the individual and that cant happen if he is in a NPC corp. NPC corporations should not be allowed to fly Capital ships, BS, mining barges, and tech II ships.

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Originally by: Harisdrop

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Originally by: Greenbolt

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What the thieves are doing in this case is pure griefing.
Griefing should be petitionable.
:)

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I dont understand this. How can this be griefing. He is not using the game mechanics against you. He is using it with you. He does no harm to your ship your loot your mission. He does get your mission item.

CCP will not ever goto instance missions. They want the galaxy to be a place to PVP. I just think you should have a recourse to go after the individual and that cant happen if he is in a NPC corp. NPC corporations should not be allowed to fly Capital ships, BS, mining barges, and tech II ships.

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Originally by: Black Scorpio

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Originally by: Hennry Fromer

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Don't key the gates, key the goal if it is a specific item - we already have giant secure cans so the mission comes with a code. Problem solved minimal changes.

If you mission area is infested with people either fight them or wait they will either stay for the fight ,hours of camping, or find something better to do with thier time.

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soooo if you get killed by a person who warped in your mission and your key blows up to smithereens or is looted, what then?

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Originally by: Black Scorpio

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Originally by: Black Scorpio

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In all of these you do not lose standing towards an agent, which is primarily why missions are run.

Also you don't waste 4 hours of your time to have some f.ck come and bust your mission loot and zip off...

In none of the other cases you're being shot at by 10-20 ships, while having a player warp in, in high sec, that's leaving you helpless., in low sec means you're dead !

---

Nothing is broken. It is player-controlled node balancing.

---

Coming from a T2 BPO holder and one that barely does missions anymore, I find your opinion hard to count...

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Quote:

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Please comment and offer a viable solution some of which being offered by players as:

1. Let the agent give Keys for missions that also allow gang members in mission complexes
2. Return Scan probes to their original or simply exclude mission complexes of possible scan results
3. Make a person that is not a mission holder and not a part of the mission gang just an observer, i.e. they can warp to the mission but cannot shoot at NPCs/mission runner or loot cans.

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Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead

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. Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.

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Originally by: Chunzen Frunghen

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If a lot of players start to ruin the missions, it will generate a flood of petitions, and you can be sure that CCP will take actions to prevent it...

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Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead

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. Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.

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Originally by: Sebastien LeReparteur

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easy enough make dead space 0.0 sec anyways concord should not be able to warp in.

That will solve it pretty fast. Most mission runner will become paranoid and start getting dirty. Most anti pirates will camp the 2nd gate of a dead space complexes to get the juicy pirate kills and pirate will be able to pirate.

all fun and all.

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Originally by: 000Hunter000

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Why is it that certain people always think their way of playing is the right way and the only way?

EVE is NOT only a pvp game.

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Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead

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. Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.

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Originally by: Caedicus

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Edited by: Caedicus on 01/12/2006 19:22:49
Edited by: Caedicus on 01/12/2006 19:22:36
I personally like the change. You people wanted Warp to 0 not caring that this totally screws over pirates. Gates were one of the very few places where people could kill their enemies. Warp to 0 made it even harder for pirates and corporations at war to kill their targets.

You guys need to realize that that Wt0 (Warp to 0) pretty much eliminated all non-warp/non-jump travel in the game. This allows for very few windows of oppurtunity for players to engage in combat.

I have been playing for 5 months, I'm a corp that engages in wardecs, and I most of my time on Eve is spent on mission running. I would say I've ran into pirates maybe 3 or 4 times since my creation. Eve has been a game for carebears, and quite frankly I think it's been boring. I think running missions is boring as hell, and I like the fact that something unexpected might happen. People will start bringing friends with them to missions for extra protection, which will make things more interesting. Pirates and corp sitting on gates will now disperse because they have tools to run around and search you out. I think less gate camps is a good thing.

Eve is not a PVE game. One of the biggest draws to Eve is it's exciting and rewarding PVP system. Why the hell do you want to play an online game but then run missions by yourself all the time? It defeats the purpose of playing an MMO. You might as well pick up X3 or Freelancer and play single player.

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Originally by: Black Scorpio

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Caedicus.. there are 2 sides of a gate, now shut up.

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Originally by: Caedicus

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Edited by: Caedicus on 01/12/2006 19:22:49
Edited by: Caedicus on 01/12/2006 19:22:36
I personally like the change. You people wanted Warp to 0 not caring that this totally screws over pirates. Gates were one of the very few places where people could kill their enemies. Warp to 0 made it even harder for pirates and corporations at war to kill their targets.

You guys need to realize that that Wt0 (Warp to 0) pretty much eliminated all non-warp/non-jump travel in the game. This allows for very few windows of oppurtunity for players to engage in combat.

I have been playing for 5 months, I'm a corp that engages in wardecs, and I most of my time on Eve is spent on mission running. I would say I've ran into pirates maybe 3 or 4 times since my creation. Eve has been a game for carebears, and quite frankly I think it's been boring. I think running missions is boring as hell, and I like the fact that something unexpected might happen. People will start bringing friends with them to missions for extra protection, which will make things more interesting. Pirates and corp sitting on gates will now disperse because they have tools to run around and search you out. I think less gate camps is a good thing.

Eve is not a PVE game. One of the biggest draws to Eve is it's exciting and rewarding PVP system. Why the hell do you want to play an online game but then run missions by yourself all the time? It defeats the purpose of playing an MMO. You might as well pick up X3 or Freelancer and play single player.

---

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 01/12/2006 18:23:23

Originally by: Black Scorpio

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Originally by: Black Scorpio

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In all of these you do not lose standing towards an agent, which is primarily why missions are run.

Also you don't waste 4 hours of your time to have some f.ck come and bust your mission loot and zip off...

In none of the other cases you're being shot at by 10-20 ships, while having a player warp in, in high sec, that's leaving you helpless., in low sec means you're dead !

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Nothing is broken. It is player-controlled node balancing.

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Coming from a T2 BPO holder and one that barely does missions anymore, I find your opinion hard to count...

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Irrelevant. I am affected by invention. Do I whine? Adapt or die.

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Originally by: Harisdrop

---

If you are not in someone elses player corp the system generates 'EVE corp 52336547'.

Remember I can never loose an argument.

Griefing

You see griefing is not a game mechanic. Its something that is not intended.

They intend these to occur

Quote:

---

Please comment and offer a viable solution some of which being offered by players as:

1. Let the agent give Keys for missions that also allow gang members in mission complexes
2. Return Scan probes to their original or simply exclude mission complexes of possible scan results
3. Make a person that is not a mission holder and not a part of the mission gang just an observer, i.e. they can warp to the mission but cannot shoot at NPCs/mission runner or loot cans.

---

1. Anyone can be in "your" space
2. Scan probes should be easy
3 Anyone can be in "your" space

---

Quote:

---

So if there's no one in your corp ready/willing to help you with a mission you have to go it solo. Which is the way most missions are really meant to be done anyway.

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Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead

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. Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.

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Originally by: Caedicus

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Edited by: Caedicus on 01/12/2006 19:53:30
Edited by: Caedicus on 01/12/2006 19:53:09

Originally by: Black Scorpio

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Caedicus.. there are 2 sides of a gate, now shut up.

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OHHH YEAH THANKS I DIDNT REALIZE THAT. OMG YOU'RE SO SMART AND INSIGHTFUL. I SHALL SHUT MY MOUTH FOR THE REST MY LIFE BECAUSE OF YOUR BRILLIANT COMMENT!

Seriously, when the **** did i say or EVEN imply that people can't attack from the other side of the gate? Here's a hint...I didn't.

My point is that with Warp to 0 makes HARDER for pirates and corps to engage their targets. I dare you tell me that this isn't so.

Stop putting words in my mouth and then tell me to shut up.

---

Originally by: Black Scorpio

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Originally by: Harisdrop

---

If you are not in someone elses player corp the system generates 'EVE corp 52336547'.

Remember I can never loose an argument.

Griefing

You see griefing is not a game mechanic. Its something that is not intended.

They intend these to occur

Quote:

---

Please comment and offer a viable solution some of which being offered by players as:

1. Let the agent give Keys for missions that also allow gang members in mission complexes
2. Return Scan probes to their original or simply exclude mission complexes of possible scan results
3. Make a person that is not a mission holder and not a part of the mission gang just an observer, i.e. they can warp to the mission but cannot shoot at NPCs/mission runner or loot cans.

---

1. Anyone can be in "your" space
2. Scan probes should be easy
3 Anyone can be in "your" space

---

I don't get your comment. A Person can create his own corp and keep recycling it...

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Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead

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. Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.

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Originally by: Harisdrop

---

Quote:

---

So if there's no one in your corp ready/willing to help you with a mission you have to go it solo. Which is the way most missions are really meant to be done anyway.

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Man you are soo wrong. CCP placed a timer to reward factor into missions because of this.

If missions get to a point where more people did them in gangs the solo polayers would be crying cause they could not ever get the bonus.

CCP does not want you to be doing missions your entire career in EVE. They want you to do things you never done before and gone places where your heart is in your throat.

---

Originally by: Harisdrop

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Originally by: Black Scorpio

---

Originally by: Harisdrop

---

If you are not in someone elses player corp the system generates 'EVE corp 52336547'.

Remember I can never loose an argument.

Griefing

You see griefing is not a game mechanic. Its something that is not intended.

They intend these to occur

Quote:

---

Please comment and offer a viable solution some of which being offered by players as:

1. Let the agent give Keys for missions that also allow gang members in mission complexes
2. Return Scan probes to their original or simply exclude mission complexes of possible scan results
3. Make a person that is not a mission holder and not a part of the mission gang just an observer, i.e. they can warp to the mission but cannot shoot at NPCs/mission runner or loot cans.

---

1. Anyone can be in "your" space
2. Scan probes should be easy
3 Anyone can be in "your" space

---

I don't get your comment. A Person can create his own corp and keep recycling it...

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Greifing is bad. If you know of someone using game mechanics in such a way you can get them banned. Thats the part in the rules where a player is misusing game mechanics as an exploit.

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Originally by: Black Scorpio

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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Irrelevant. I am affected by invention. Do I whine? Adapt or die.

---

aaAHAHHAHHA, ahahhah a, oh,, ohh aahahahhhhahahha :DDDDDD

Affected by invention aBWAAAAAHHAHAHHA , good one Jenny girl...

NOT !!! lol, there is probably not a single item invented by now and will be less so in the future once the people actually try this feature out.. i guess you haven't looked into it yet.. but why? yeah that T2 BPO is working isn't it, i guess since we're at risk vs reward, you should lose it and it should go to another person's hangar at random, then keep changing location?

How bout that?

---

Originally by: Harisdrop

---

Quote:

---

So if there's no one in your corp ready/willing to help you with a mission you have to go it solo. Which is the way most missions are really meant to be done anyway.

---

Man you are soo wrong. CCP placed a timer to reward factor into missions because of this.

If missions get to a point where more people did them in gangs the solo polayers would be crying cause they could not ever get the bonus.

CCP does not want you to be doing missions your entire career in EVE. They want you to do things you never done before and gone places where your heart is in your throat.

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Originally by: OneSock

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But you know it's entirely possible for someone to probe out a Lv4 runner, and follow him through looting and salvaging.

Even if you get an agro timer for stealing from cans, if you in the previous deadspace pockets, i'd like to see the av lv4 BS come back round through the plex in 15 mins. It's free loot effectively.

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

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What is so funny? Do I look funny? Am I laughing? If you want my BPO, come and loot it from me. Mission running is a cancer. The sooner CCP realise it, the better for EvE. Mission runners are never happy.

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Originally by: Naran Darkmood

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It's one think to pirate good mission loot - if there is anything like it left anyway.
What happens if those guys start hi-jacking mission by graping critical loot, like the special item in Duo of Death. Mission is reported as complete, so it won't respawn even after DT and you can't complete the mission anymore.

Critical items are easy to recognize nowadays, as they still drop in a can.

"Pay me or fail the mission? YARR!"

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Originally by: Dreamdancer

---

Not asking for a PVE game only. I agree EVE is a PVP game mostly, but there is a PVE side to it. If not there wouldn't be rats at all.

MMO means there's other people playing the game at the same time, but anyone who has played any MMO knows that it doesn't mean you have someone to do stuff with even 50% of the time.

In EVE you don't trust anyone. So if there's no one in your corp ready/willing to help you with a mission you have to go it solo. Which is the way most missions are really meant to be done anyway. Or they'd be ALOT tougher.

But the main problem here is there is nothing that can be done to counter this. Give us a way to counter people being able to scan us/sneak into a mission/agro the rats/steal mission loot/ect/ect/ect.

EVE is all about thrust-parry. Give one person a method of attack, give his target a method to counter him. Yes it is his target's responsibility to use the supplied tool.

One last thing, you said missioning is boring? Well to me and many others pvp is boring. I have done it and to me it sucked big hairy monkey balls. Do I tell you not to pvp? Heck no! You enjoy it. So go do it, but don't tell me my method of enjoyment is to be shelved cause "you" don't enjoy it.

High sec is supposed to be at least somewhat less risky then low sec. Not safe by any means, but less risky. But if someone can enter my mission agro the whole room and leave then return and clean up what's left with no means for me to counter his actions there is a problem. Or enter the room and steal the critical mission loot and warp away once again with me unable to stop him there's a problem.

Give us counter methods to the being scanned and having our missions invaded. If we don't use the method then it's our problem. Not CCP's or the pirate's. But currently we don't have one.

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Originally by: Black Scorpio

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Originally by: Caedicus

---

Edited by: Caedicus on 01/12/2006 19:53:30
Edited by: Caedicus on 01/12/2006 19:53:09

Originally by: Black Scorpio

---

Caedicus.. there are 2 sides of a gate, now shut up.

---

OHHH YEAH THANKS I DIDNT REALIZE THAT. OMG YOU'RE SO SMART AND INSIGHTFUL. I SHALL SHUT MY MOUTH FOR THE REST MY LIFE BECAUSE OF YOUR BRILLIANT COMMENT!

Seriously, when the **** did i say or EVEN imply that people can't attack from the other side of the gate? Here's a hint...I didn't.

My point is that with Warp to 0 makes HARDER for pirates and corps to engage their targets. I dare you tell me that this isn't so.

Stop putting words in my mouth and then tell me to shut up.

---

when you DIDN'T "HINT" anything why are you using it as an argument ?

here's another HINT for you: CAPS DONT MAKE YOUR COMMENT STRONGER.. maybe caps is all you understand that is why i can use them with you and the like minded of you...

Yes I do dare to tell you so. you camp both sides or just one side like before, you will always catch one way of the traffic. I can draw it for you but the forum doesn't support that feature, sure someone with your CAPS imagination might envision...

---

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

---

Originally by: Black Scorpio

---

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

---

Irrelevant. I am affected by invention. Do I whine? Adapt or die.

---

aaAHAHHAHHA, ahahhah a, oh,, ohh aahahahhhhahahha :DDDDDD

Affected by invention aBWAAAAAHHAHAHHA , good one Jenny girl...

NOT !!! lol, there is probably not a single item invented by now and will be less so in the future once the people actually try this feature out.. i guess you haven't looked into it yet.. but why? yeah that T2 BPO is working isn't it, i guess since we're at risk vs reward, you should lose it and it should go to another person's hangar at random, then keep changing location?

How bout that?

---

What is so funny? Do I look funny? Am I laughing? If you want my BPO, come and loot it from me. Mission running is a cancer. The sooner CCP realise it, the better for EvE. Mission runners are never happy.

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Originally by: ScouseUK

---

personally iam a wuss and i like doing missions but that dosnt mean iam not working towards PvP,but this is what ive luved about this game up till now,if you want to pvp you can if you want to run missions in the saftey of high sec you can,i just payed for my next months subscription last weekend,while the patch was being implimented but i doubt i will be doing that next month,this game will now loose lots of players,not everyone is geared up for pvp and not everyone likes it,but now well i dont no....i was just getting somewere in the game and starting to luv it but i now think its time for me to look for another game....

if its not broke dont fix it

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Originally by: Dreamdancer

---

But I am a mission runner and I have never complained prior to now. Even when they made low sec missions more profitable, because it made 100% sense.

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Originally by: Kahor

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Only reasonable solution, make using someone's missions acceleration gate criminal flag you to said player, unless you are in the same gang.

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Originally by: Jenny Spitfire

---

What is so funny? Do I look funny? Am I laughing? If you want my BPO, come and loot it from me. Mission running is a cancer. The sooner CCP realise it, the better for EvE. Mission runners are never happy.

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Originally by: Caedicus

---

For the most part I think there is a counter for people warping onto your missions. You have a boosted local. Furthermore, I think this patch has made missions much easier. People can now afford to design their setups more for PVP. Also, don't forget that missions rewards are affected by how often they are completed. If pirates do make missions harder to complete, we will be seeing higher mission rewards.

It's not like anyone can scan. You still have to train skills, and a scan probe launcher totally gimps your set up.

I do think you have a point when it comes to pirates looting items you need to complete the mission. I think something needs to be done to prevent that type of griefing.

I never said that there shouldn't PVE or that you should be forced to PVP. If you enjoy PVE'ing only then you should be able to do that. This new changes don't really force you to PVP either. If you really want to stay out of PVP, you can join a newb corp and stay in high sec. Yeah I know the disadvantages of doing that, but let's face it... this is an MMO. I believe MMO's should be catered for groups rather than solo players, because they are made for MULTIPLE players after all. That's what WoW did; you can't do any of it's end-game content without a guild, and look how successful it is. I mean if you want to play an MMO by yourself (I'm not saying you are Dreamdancer), then you should be able to and of course any company with half a brain will allow for solo play. But I get the feeling that some people here expect that they can play by themselves, completely invulnerable, and be able to enjoy the same rewards, and that's just rediculous. That's when I say why are you playing EVE instead of a single player game?

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Originally by: Ehrys Marakai

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Originally by: Xsag

---

isnt that going to cause a problem for people that do missions in gangs?

---

No, it already works this way with deadspace complexes. I think you get about 15-20 seconds in order to activate the gate once the key is used.

Although I hate griefers as much as any man/woman, this actually obeys real word laws in a twisted sense. Someone breaks into your home and steals everything, if you so much as lay one finger on him, you will go to jail, for either A) Kidnapping, B) GHB, C) ABH, D) Attempted Murder and if you're really stupiud/unlucky E) Murder 2nd Degree.

So:
1. Stop this from happening. Key requirement for mission critical loot missions,
2. Allow users to "prosecute" theives. Can't see this happening personally but it's an idea :P
3. Allow people to be shot without CONCORD interference when in deadspace missions. <-- I prefer this idea.

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Originally by: Kelkyen

---

I may just be a noob, but if someone just jumps into a mission of mine, whats stopping me jumping out and letting everything gank the thief? They don't know which npc type I'd be fighing and may not have the right resists, and with all the scanner stuff and the speed somethings gotta give on their end.

The mission runner could end up with some nice loot too.

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Originally by: Apollo Balthar

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Originally by: Dreamdancer

---

But I am a mission runner and I have never complained prior to now. Even when they made low sec missions more profitable, because it made 100% sense.

---

Of course you never complained till now, you could rake in way too much isk in almost perfect safety untill now....

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Originally by: Glumpumpkin

---

Originally by: Ehrys Marakai

---

1. People will stop doing missions and start mining, flooding the market, economy in Eve collapses as there is no longer as high demand for modules (no one dying from mission running).
2. People will stop doing missions and leave the game.
3. People will stop doing missions and move to low sec. <-- This would be good, but 80% of players I doubt would be able to.

Then you have the problem, what about new players?

---

Yoa are soo right.
Mission runneers never lose a ship, they keep the same one for years, all the ship on market are brought by PvP players, and all the mission runner sit on billions of isk after the second week of play.
Well, if you look my mails, I have lost more than 40 ships, 5 to pirates the rest in missions.
Even if you do missions with a fully faction BS, you aren't garanteed not to lose the ship. And most of us use T1 ships with T1 or common named modules as they havn't even hundred of million of isk.
I hate that all the pirates/gankers/PvPers and so use a restricted minority of very rich players as the meter to judge all the PvE players.


I honestly don't think that very much demand for modules comes from the running of missions. Once a mission is figured out, or after a player consults eve-info.com for the mission info, the risk of death is infinitesimal. Most of the death and destruction in eve comes from PvP combat in the form of empire wardecs, pirating, and 0.0 combat, but CCP is the only entity that knows well enough to make any decisions.

New players are a very important part of the game though, and I wouldn't be opposed to CCP introducing instanced missions as others have suggested in this thread, but only for those missions that benefit new players- levels 1 and 2. Beyond that players need to make the choice to either travel to lowsec alone or take the risk of a griefer coming into you mission and ganking your loot.

Higher level missions are disproportionally profitable compared to the level of risk the mission runners face while in deadspace, and I see potentially losing standings and failing the mission as acceptable risk.

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Originally by: Miri Tirzan

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I do wonder why using an scan probe in high sec is not a criminal act? I would think that the empire that owns that system might get a little annoyed that a player is looking for things they may have hidden in the system.

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Originally by: Dreamdancer

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Originally by: Apollo Balthar

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Originally by: Dreamdancer

---

But I am a mission runner and I have never complained prior to now. Even when they made low sec missions more profitable, because it made 100% sense.

---

Of course you never complained till now, you could rake in way too much isk in almost perfect safety untill now....

---

Yeah? Let's see I only started doing lvl 4's a few months ago been playing for nearly two years. I also do industry, research and oh yeah I have done some pvp. I never whined once in any of those areas. I don't enjoy pvp, but I have never once said oh kill pvp!

Course I have to get shallow people such as yourself who want easy kills and if you think the new way this is setup is anything but stupid easy kills you're fooling yourself or are lieing to try and cover. So do your trolling somewhere else. EVE needs decent players.

Missions never were 100% safe. A skilled scanner could find them, but this setup even someone like you could do it.

I have never asked for 100% safe, but give mission runners a method to counter this action.

So for now unless you have something constructive to add please STFU.

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Originally by: Alyx Pretzel

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did someone say "brave missions runners"??? lol

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Originally by: Dreamdancer

---

I like the gate key idea as well, but it needs to be a use it once and all your gang mates can use it even if they get there a bit late or as what many do now, the main tanker goes in and grabs agro then other warpin to help. If each needs to have a key it'll be a pain.

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Originally by: Lord WarATron

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Edited by: Lord WarATron on 01/12/2006 14:30:32
Can theft is one thing... Mission loot theft by jumping in... Lol.


Actually I can see someone pirating in high sec with it. Wait till the mission runner gets scrambled by NPC's, then uncloak, aggro all and warp out. Come back in and cloak while the mission runner is forced to tank everything, possibly dieing in the process....

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Originally by: Istefan

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I got tracked down by a group of pirates who then followed me into my mission. I got scrambled and (long story short), I no longer own a Raven, nor can I currently afford to replace it.

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Originally by: Syrakus

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The griefers are not really there to loot your cans. They are there to get fun out of disturbing the mission runners game expirience! They aggroe all the rats - ok, he gets criminally flagged but: he can use a good ship with a PVP fitting that you could not stand a fight 1 vs. 1 under normal circumstances. But as the hole stage aggroes you your chances are zero to survive such an attack. In fact you would do them a favor by allowing them to shoot you. The only option you have is: LEAVE.

By the way, even the ore can flagging implemented for ore thieving does not work as intended: You warp in with a ship that can own all barges etc. easily. You make a new can and move all the ore to your can. You are now criminally flagged but no one would engage you as they would just loose their ship. Now you can get another char to fetch "his" ore ... Realy lame. Where is the fun in such methods ?

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Originally by: Victor Vision

---

I take it you were mission running in low-sec? Were you expecting to be safe there while you were running the mission?

Even before Kali you could be tracked down by a skilled reconnaisance pilot. It is just the likelyness of it happening that has increased with Kali.

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Originally by: Helga Clearskies

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step 1: create a new Caldari character with frigate IV
step 2: train science 3 & astrometrics 3

There you go, within a day you can scan down mission runners with a Heron. Personally I recommend Fathom probes since they catch most BS sized ships within 10 AU.

step 3: enter deadspace and bookmark it
step 4: using your 3 sensor boosters and civilian gatling gun shoot all inactive spawns and warp out
step 5: wait for the mission runner to cancel his mission in disgust, warp to BM and scoop loot

alternatively...

step 3b: scan ships for smartbombs, remember ship names
step 4b: find them, enter deadspace, hurl towards them in fast frigate
step 5b: wait for concord to deliver punishment, get a new frig and scoop loot

I'm ready, watch out Motsu!

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Originally by: Radioactive Babe

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Edited by: Radioactive Babe on 04/12/2006 16:54:50

Originally by: Victor Vision

---

I take it you were mission running in low-sec? Were you expecting to be safe there while you were running the mission?

Even before Kali you could be tracked down by a skilled reconnaisance pilot. It is just the likelyness of it happening that has increased with Kali.

---

Before a skilled pilot could have caught you, and it would have taken him quite a while ....now, any idiot can catch you in a few minutes ... i.e. yet another borked game mechanic

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Originally by: Victor Vision

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Originally by: Istefan

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I got tracked down by a group of pirates who then followed me into my mission. I got scrambled and (long story short), I no longer own a Raven, nor can I currently afford to replace it.

---

Mr. Istefan,

sorry to hear about your loss.

I take it you were mission running in low-sec? Were you expecting to be safe there while you were running the mission?

Even before Kali you could be tracked down by a skilled reconnaisance pilot. It is just the likelyness of it happening that has increased with Kali.

Also, DO NOT FLY WHAT YOU CAN NOT AFFORD TO LOOSE. Simple rule, and it is a very wise one to follow.

All the best to you,
VV

---

Quote:

---

Melicien Tetro: I tried to fight a shark with a pistol underwater once, and I'll be ****ed if he didn't laugh at me and eat me. Sharks need a ******* nerf. True story

---

Originally by: Victor Vision

---

Edited by: Victor Vision on 04/12/2006 17:12:04

Originally by: Radioactive Babe

---

Edited by: Radioactive Babe on 04/12/2006 16:54:50

Originally by: Victor Vision

---

I take it you were mission running in low-sec? Were you expecting to be safe there while you were running the mission?

Even before Kali you could be tracked down by a skilled reconnaisance pilot. It is just the likelyness of it happening that has increased with Kali.

---

Before a skilled pilot could have caught you, and it would have taken him quite a while ....now, any idiot can catch you in a few minutes ... i.e. yet another borked game mechanic

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Dear Miss Radioactive,

The reconnaisance pilots I know could track you down pre-Kali in about 5 minutes. Sometimes it would take them as little as 2 minutes.

So the difference pre-Kali to now is not realy the speed it takes to track someone down. The difference is that finding someone is now not RL skill but ingame skill based.

So we are seeing a larger number of players being able to track other players down.

Hope you dont get a sunburn from your radioactivity ,
VV

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Originally by: Aphotic Raven

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.....Allowing carebears to roam unchecked is bad...

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Originally by: Caedicus

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[some stupid crap

---

Originally by: Titus Puelo

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Edited by: Titus Puelo on 04/12/2006 19:01:24
I find this very interesting. Pirates that are doing and defending in effect exactly what they are blasting the care bears for, taking the easy route.

If you big bad Pirates are so into adding difficulty to a care bears life, I'd think you'd challenge yourself and head to 0.0 space were the risks are greater but so is the reward. This is more to the fact you don't want to take any chances and face risk yourselves, in this you are even more the care bear than the pilot running the mission.

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Originally by: fuze

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Edited by: fuze on 02/12/2006 01:28:52
You can't MWD in deadspace. You can't scan in deadspace (from the outside).

Problem fixed.

Next!

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Originally by: James Snowscoran

---

Personally, I'd love to see the 'solution' that CONCORD doesn't respond to attacks inside deadspace. Doesn't make sense anyways that they can warp straight in. That'd empower the players to deal with the problems on their own

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Originally by: Blueice

---

I am a mission runner, I have never had cause to reply on these forums before now, but this change has had a big impact on mission running, I only have time to play this game occasionally but I enjoy PVE & running missions, I understand that PVP is a part of the game & that some people enjoy it... good luck to them.

I wasn't happy when I had to wait for the salvaging problem to be fixed, but it was sorted & no MMO is perfect, but this new griefing problem is much bigger & will have more consequences, I for one will definately leave this game if the problem is not fixed, mainly because it will no longer be any fun for me to play it... I know everybody has a different oppinion on this, & I'm not suggesting that the new probe setup should be changed, but if something is not done, there are many casual players like me who will not voice there opinion... they will just leave.

I expect my comments will get the usual rants from Griefer/Pirates, but this is my opinion & how I play the game, I respect others views & there way of enjoying this game & would not try to put them down.

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