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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2006.12.05 23:59:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Barsei you are attacked by a rokh fleet ???
a typical fleet have some geddons/apocs, megas and tempest too. i dont think that all or any mega pilot would learn for a rokh, then the next is the mega have higher alpha strike and better dps.
Well I recently recieved an e-mail from one of our fleet commanders telling the ENTIRE CORP to train at least Caldari BS 4 and Large Hybrid Turret 4 and I'm guessing theres many others out there in EVE that have gotten similar mails.
Fleets used to be a mixture of T1 and T2 fitted ships since they could hit at the same range. Then T2 ammo was released and fleets slowly coverted into entirely T2 fit w/ T2 long range ammo due to the extra range making T1 fit ships useless. I see no reason why fleets won't slowly migrate from T2 fit BS to T2 fit Rokhs due to the extra range making T2 fit anything else useless.
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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2006.12.06 00:04:00 -
[32]
Originally by: konkord Fleet battles. Well, yea, if the gang you leading is purely Rokh's then they're gunna have some fun, but they're gunna need a cov ops pilot to give them ranged insta's. And if that gang is mixed, the Rokh loses the use of its bonus, its optimal is selectable and yes it can change ammo/damage accordingly but that said, at 150km it still cant change to high dmg tech II ammo, and regardless of the tech I ammo it selects, regardless of its optimal it still looses out on a DPS basis due to the lack of BS based dmg bonus.
Even at normal BS sniping range the Rokhs range bonus is not wasted since it frees up slots. With BS 5 the Rokh can hit out to 250km with 1 tracking enhancer while the other fleet BS are wasting 2 additional slots to hit out to ~180km. This gives the Rokh two free slots to fit shield extenders, shield hardners, etc. The Rokh can put up a stronger tank than any other fleet BS while still outranging it... and only giving up about 7% DPS for the privelage.
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Hida Kage
Caldari Knights of the Wild
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Posted - 2006.12.06 00:54:00 -
[33]
Can someone explain to me why 250km range in Fleet engagements is so important?
With the introduction of the new scanning system, Recon probe launchers, and warp to 0, can't you at 0 km from any enemy forces in under 20 seconds? Even just 1 probe launcher every 10th person would be more than enough in a fleet of 30 or 40.
I mean, a single squad of 9 Blaster equiped Megathron's or Torpedo Ravens along with an interdictor would seem to put the hurt on any almost any sized purely ranged Rokh fleet. Heck, the guy doing the scanning doesn't even need to be on the grid or visible.
So why is 250km range so important?
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Tunajuice
Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.06 03:23:00 -
[34]
^^ been wondering that too. But I know there are definately times when it is huge.
1) guarding a gate. You have guys 200km out from gate. Bunch of short range guys jump through gate. Many of them will be BBQed and not able to return fire.
2) You want to sit 200km behind your dreads who are blowing up a pos. At 200km you can provide cover but still be outside POS huge gun cycle range. At say 50km, you would still got shot up by the big guns.
3) Hit and run. A Bs gang warps 200km off, they can snipe and then retreat before taking any damage if you don't also have long range guns.
Those were the three I thought of using logic. I have not participated in any sniper BS battles yet, but I would assume they are at least close. having more range than your opponent is really helpful.
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Barsei
Cataclysm Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.12.06 09:48:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Tribunal
That no damage bonus is kinda made up for the fact that a Rokh can use higher damaging ammo at every range, other then point blank, ...
can you fly a mega too ???
when yes, do you have gallente BS at the same LVL as Caldari BS ??
when you have a difference of one LVL, can you compare for me the dmg between mega and rokh at the same optimal range ??
what i want is only a calculation from the raw dps, thank you.
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Gragnor
Ordos Humanitas
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Posted - 2006.12.06 14:14:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Hida Kage Can someone explain to me why 250km range in Fleet engagements is so important?
With the introduction of the new scanning system, Recon probe launchers, and warp to 0, can't you at 0 km from any enemy forces in under 20 seconds? Even just 1 probe launcher every 10th person would be more than enough in a fleet of 30 or 40.
I mean, a single squad of 9 Blaster equiped Megathron's or Torpedo Ravens along with an interdictor would seem to put the hurt on any almost any sized purely ranged Rokh fleet. Heck, the guy doing the scanning doesn't even need to be on the grid or visible.
So why is 250km range so important?
Why? Your covert ops scans down the enemy fleet and warps in 100km away. YEEHAH. He/She yells in TS warp to me at 100km or even better, get's into position so they can warp into the enemy at 220km. The enemy fleet sees the Rokh's as they load on the grid. The enemy fleet commander yells out awarning and calls primary. The enemy locks, engages and SCREAMS in frustration as their uber-leet ultra-nerfed t2 ammo does minimal damage to the Rokhs.
The Rokh pilots laugh and begin pinging away at the enemy fleet, chortling as the lagfest slows down the enemy fleet's escape. The end of the fight; the Rokh fleet is unscathed and laughing while the enemy fleet has suffered losses.
The fact that you even consider a close range engagement for fleet work speaks of inexperience. It is incredibly hard to get a close range engagement and when you do, the lag is tremendous. In addition, your fleet needs to be set up for a close range engagement and PRAY the enemy doesn't have a dictor hidden in the hundred or so ships along with some kind of carrier support or you are dead.
The Rokh's immense range means that it is the new cheap sniper. It outranges all other snipers with tech 1 gear, which is TOTALLY UNBALANCED.
The Rokh will be nerfed, but given the Typhoon experience, I would not hold my breath waiting for CCP to admit they made a horrible mistake. As for racial balance, perhaps one day the game developers will admit they don't know what that means.
Yet another Caldari I WIN ship.
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Raste
Shinra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.06 14:24:00 -
[37]
Yeah, the Rokh makes no sense in the current context. Its like CCP is saying "OK, we are nerfing long-range combat for everyone that went down that sp intensive path of sniper guns, since we made it so fleet warfare required them. If you're a Caldari though, we'll be giving you better range than anyone has ever had in this game and you don't need to train t2."
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Wat0721
GalacTECH Unlimited
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Posted - 2006.12.06 14:36:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Raste Yeah, the Rokh makes no sense in the current context. Its like CCP is saying "OK, we are nerfing long-range combat for everyone that went down that sp intensive path of sniper guns, since we made it so fleet warfare required them. If you're a Caldari though, we'll be giving you better range than anyone has ever had in this game and you don't need to train t2."
Is it called irony that in the same patch that devs had mentioned reducing range they introduce a ship to outrange every other ship -- and it's Caldari? ---
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Sovereign533
Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.12.06 14:49:00 -
[39]
is it really the Rokh where everybody's whining about? =s
cause if nothing happened with the t2 ammo... would everybody still whine? well, some ppl will... "OMG OMG!! THEY ARE SHOOTING ME WITH IRON CHARGES!! 12DPS!! OVERPOWERED!! OMG!!" retards like that will always exist...
yeah, it has great ranges... so what? t1 long range ammo doesn't hurt in t1 guns... what are the ranges of the other sniping ships? the new ranges i mean... i hope it's close to 200km... 196km optimal or something? cause that's what i get with my Eagle... <- LOOK a sniping CRUISER!! wow... that must be overpowered 2, don't you say? back to the real issue, that the Rokh may have huge ranges... but when i fly with Tempests, Sniperthrons and Geddon's... i won't be at my 235km optimal... or near my 249km max target range... no, i will be near their optimal range... they do have dmg bonusses on their ships... dmg with my t2 fitted Rokh won't be bad... and the ranges would be good... but i can simply be out damaged...
lets look at the facts... lets compare Rokh vs Megathron... i'm not even gonna bother with the bonusses on ships or skills... and not with ranges... lets assume the Rokh and the Megathron are at the same range... Megathron t2 fitted... Rokh with the overpowered t1 fitted... (since the Megathron uses t2 sniping ammo with the range bonus, and the Rokh uses it's t1 ammo... range should be around the same when fitted correctly)...
425mm railgun I : 2.75x dmg mod, 9.56s ROF Iron Charge L : 12 Kinetic, 8 Thermal Rokh : 8 guns
(2.75x12+2.75x8)/9.56x8=46 base dps
425mm railgun II : 3.3x dmg mod, 9.56s ROF Spike L : 16 Kinetic, 16 Thermal Megathron 7 guns (bonus not calculated) : 7 guns
(3.3x16+3.3x16)/9.56x7=77 base dps
now lets put these together... 46dps for the Rokh with 8 guns... and 77dps for the Megathron with just 7 guns, and not getting the dmg bonus on the Megathron in the calculation...
Originally by: Sovereign533 Time will tell, sooner or later, time will tell...
Second sig removed, only 1 signature graphic please - Xorus ^_^WOOHOO!!! my Sig finally got nerfed... And now its been sigjacked, yarrrr!!! - Petwraith |
Pedro Valesquez
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Posted - 2006.12.06 15:16:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Gragnor Yet another Caldari I WIN ship.
Umm, okay... right... wait a sec, let me go back through my PvP history... yep, it is infact true, that every time I have recieved a massive spanking, it has been from a Gallente ship.
Would you care to show me another example of the Caldari "I WIN" ship, and then compare it to it's brother equivalents of the other races.
(also, as a side note, I just think you should all stop whining about *******s problems, that only exist inside your own little world.) |
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Crellion
Art of War Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.06 15:37:00 -
[41]
I agree with all the clueless people above. Take away the range bonus and add a rof bonus. Watch them cry HAXXXXXXXX!!!!!! Loller. Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Hida Kage
Caldari Knights of the Wild
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Posted - 2006.12.06 15:54:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Hida Kage on 06/12/2006 15:54:05
Originally by: Gragnor
Why? Your covert ops scans down the enemy fleet and warps in 100km away. YEEHAH. He/She yells in TS warp to me at 100km or even better, get's into position so they can warp into the enemy at 220km. The enemy fleet sees the Rokh's as they load on the grid. The enemy fleet commander yells out awarning and calls primary. The enemy locks, engages and SCREAMS in frustration as their uber-leet ultra-nerfed t2 ammo does minimal damage to the Rokhs.
I don't understand why are you necessarily using a covert ops. Why can't the squad commander, in a Megathron, with 1 recon probe launcher, issue the warp squad to 0km squad command after doing a scan and analyzing? From what I understand, any ship can fit a recon probe launcher. I mean, with pirates scanning down mission runners in under a minute and warping to within a few km of them why are you warping 100km away? Why aren't you warping 5 km away? At such a distance, 425mm rail guns will be virtually useless due to tracking. Is it purely due to lag reasons this won't work?
Originally by: Gragnor
The Rokh pilots laugh and begin pinging away at the enemy fleet, chortling as the lagfest slows down the enemy fleet's escape. The end of the fight; the Rokh fleet is unscathed and laughing while the enemy fleet has suffered losses.
The fact that you even consider a close range engagement for fleet work speaks of inexperience. It is incredibly hard to get a close range engagement and when you do, the lag is tremendous. In addition, your fleet needs to be set up for a close range engagement and PRAY the enemy doesn't have a dictor hidden in the hundred or so ships along with some kind of carrier support or you are dead.
Oh, I freely admit that I'm completely inexperienced in fleet combat. Thats why I'm asking why the 250km is so important. Again, why is it so hard to get a close range engagement with the new scanning mechanics? Pirates can do it trivially, why can't fleets? Why do you need cov op ship to do it anymore? Why do you even need a ship on the grid? Can't you just analyze a scan and say warp to 0 km on this huge sig radius Rohk?
And if you're fleet is mixing it up at point blank range with the Rokh fleet, won't any interdictor warp scramble the Rokh's as much as the close range fleet? Also, why is the carrier support so important to such a fight? In principle, can't both sides have access to fighters? Rokh's + Fighters at close range vs Megathron/Raven's + Fighters at close range, seems like the close range fleet would have the advantage?
Now I suppose lag is reason not to do all this, but why is it affecting the close range fleet more than the Rokh fleet? Shouldn't both sides be having equal problems? Also, does it really differ whether you're at 250km or 5km, since you're all still on the same grid?
Originally by: Gragnor
The Rokh's immense range means that it is the new cheap sniper. It outranges all other snipers with tech 1 gear, which is TOTALLY UNBALANCED.
Why is it totally unbalanced? Is the Eagle unbalanced againt cruisers? Is the Moa unbalanced against frigates? Or is it the nature of the fleet combat paradigm which makes it strong in your eyes? If the nature of fleet combat were to change, where maximum range engagements were *not* the only option, would you still consider the Rokh unbalanced?
Originally by: Gragnor
The Rokh will be nerfed, but given the Typhoon experience, I would not hold my breath waiting for CCP to admit they made a horrible mistake. As for racial balance, perhaps one day the game developers will admit they don't know what that means.
Yet another Caldari I WIN ship.
I don't see how they could elegantly nerf the Rokh. The Caldari turret bonus is range. Its designed to make Railguns be the hybrid weapon of choice for Caldari. Railguns also happen to be the best long range weapons in the game.
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Jeanpierre Duvall
Caldari Spectral Armada Eternal Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.06 15:55:00 -
[43]
Well.. As it has been said so many times before.
Suck it up. Adapt. "I have always done it that way" It's part of the game use your imagination FFS.
Quit whining and play the game. Since that is what always have been said when other ppl claimed something was "unbalanced".. Everything in Eve is unbalanced. You just have to counter the balance.
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.12.06 16:46:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 06/12/2006 17:07:26
Originally by: Jeanpierre Duvall Everything in Eve is unbalanced. You just have to counter the balance.
Spoken like a true caldari.
Oh, and if you think everyone was waiting your advice to adapt (i.e. train for the rokh as its the only realistic option), you are very wrong. I know a 50 mill SP player only flying one race up to capital ships until three months ago who trained everything needed to fly a rokh from now on.
I don't know the whole picture and what was the point of introducing this ship as it is, but here's an assumption.
A symptom of the broken t2 ammo was that people without the skill for t2 turrets were mostly useless. CCP decided to address the symptom and not the problem (as they did a few times despite many other very good balancing decisions) by making such range available for people without t2 guns. It's not bad per se, and actually rather good, because it gives those people the ability to participate in fleet warfare again. Regardless of the issues with the rokh so massively outranging anything else (i.e. the significance of the difference in range), the first problem is that there's little point skilling for any other t2 turret than t2 hybrids as it is not efficient skillpoints wise. They could have very well given the maelstrom and the apoc a "balanced" range bonus, allowing people without t2 turrets and without t1 hybrid turret skill the same option as hybrid users. Whereas "not everything should be available for every race" holds to some extent, fleet warfare for non-t2 turret users should also be available for lasers and projectiles users for the very reason t1 hybrid turret users are made worthwhile again.
I believe CCP had the hope that giving a ship the ability to outrange everything else so much would make people fight closer, benefitting from their higher damage at closer range against fleets build for max range. This is very flawed. A very first reason is versatility: the tradeoff in damage is nowhere near the advantage of the extra range, allowing you to control a much wider area. The second reason is ECM: only the rokh can reliably sit outside the maximum effective range of all EW. The third reason is tacklers: the further you stay from the enemy fleet, the longer it takes for them to get the covert op in position or the inties to get to you. It's more than that but what I wrote sums it up already.
EDIT: lol @ people suggesting to bring close range setups against a long range fleet. Even if you manage to drop in the middle of them, chances are you will hardly compete. Anyone who has seen platted, tanked battleships die in docking range and before locking them in a 3 SB t2 battleship knows that this is utterly inadequate. The only advantage of close range battleships, their tank, is completely negated by the effectiveness of focused fire.
NB.
In Rust We Trust |
Lucian Corvinus
Gallente Expert Systems
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Posted - 2006.12.06 20:54:00 -
[45]
Well to get this thread back on track...
This thread was about a "noob" char with noob skills using a T1 fitted rokh outranging a "uber" T2 high-SP char using another BS. Well I tried using the wonderful spreadsheet to see the difference in distances using some of the other ships fitted with T2 versus a T1 rokh. This rokh is however at lvl 5 so you might want to retract some of the distance to reflect a real "noob" char.
different ranges
Now, I have no idea how accurate this spreadsheet is, but I really don't see what all the fuzz is about. According to this spreadsheet the rokh will outdamage the other ship at 225-250 km, while the damage will be severely lower at all other ranges. I have yet to have tried a fleet battle where the distance is at those distances, while most if not all of the battles I've been in is between 100-200 km.
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Penthus Mal
devastation mining inc Hell Hounds
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Posted - 2006.12.06 21:17:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Well to get this thread back on track...
This thread was about a "noob" char with noob skills using a T1 fitted rokh outranging a "uber" T2 high-SP char using another BS. Well I tried using the wonderful spreadsheet to see the difference in distances using some of the other ships fitted with T2 versus a T1 rokh. This rokh is however at lvl 5 so you might want to retract some of the distance to reflect a real "noob" char.
different ranges
Now, I have no idea how accurate this spreadsheet is, but I really don't see what all the fuzz is about. According to this spreadsheet the rokh will outdamage the other ship at 225-250 km, while the damage will be severely lower at all other ranges. I have yet to have tried a fleet battle where the distance is at those distances, while most if not all of the battles I've been in is between 100-200 km.
Unfortunately this does not show the different ammo types. All turret ammo follows the same theme Higher range = lower damage Lower range = higher damage
The Rokh pilot has the option of swapping out to the lower range/higher damage ammo and still retain the desired optimal.
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Lucian Corvinus
Gallente Expert Systems
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Posted - 2006.12.06 21:48:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Penthus Mal
Unfortunately this does not show the different ammo types. All turret ammo follows the same theme Higher range = lower damage Lower range = higher damage
The Rokh pilot has the option of swapping out to the lower range/higher damage ammo and still retain the desired optimal.
Just like all the others. For instance if the rokh pilot switched to antimatter his optimal would drop to 70km and the DOT would be the same as the maelstrom and the megathorn using the long range ammo. Only difference is that their optimal range would still be above 160km.
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.12.06 23:52:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 07/12/2006 00:06:11
Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Now, I have no idea how accurate this spreadsheet is, but I really don't see what all the fuzz is about. According to this spreadsheet the rokh will outdamage the other ship at 225-250 km, while the damage will be severely lower at all other ranges.
The spreadsheet should be accurate. Someone else is kindly updating it for a little while and I'm fully confident that he's doing this right.
I'd comment by saying that you are using stock t1 guns, whereas you could very well use named turrets. A max skilled tempest with 3 tracking mods t2 and tremor hits at 150km optimal + 42km falloff, whereas a level 4 BS skill rokh hits at 227 km optimal with best named t1 guns, iron ammo, and 3 tracking mods t2.
You could argue that it's fine that way, because the extra range isn't that much and you'd be using the best named guns. With level 5 bs skill the range difference is around 100km difference in optimal range. A tempest will at best use 40 km of falloff (its damage will suffer more than 50% damage reduction at that range, what the spreadsheet doesn't show as nobody figured out or at least made public the formula used to compute the decreasing hit quality due to falloff; only hit chance is factored). The extra 50-60 km over all the other BS with BS 5 is just too much though. And I am still amazed that this went through as a) Tux said he wanted to nerf the range though finally gave 25% extra range to one ship over all the others and b) what about newer players using projectiles and lasers ?
NB.
In Rust We Trust |
Tribunal
FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.07 01:59:00 -
[49]
Quote: And I am still amazed that this went through as a) Tux said he wanted to nerf the range though finally gave 25% extra range to one ship over all the others and b) what about newer players using projectiles and lasers ?
When players have been pointing out why the bonus is broken, before even Revelations, and CCP still releases it then it's quite simple to piece together that CCP thinks the bonus is "balanced" (even though it's not).
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Sovereign533
Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.12.07 02:15:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Tribunal
Quote: And I am still amazed that this went through as a) Tux said he wanted to nerf the range though finally gave 25% extra range to one ship over all the others and b) what about newer players using projectiles and lasers ?
When players have been pointing out why the bonus is broken, before even Revelations, and CCP still releases it then it's quite simple to piece together that CCP thinks the bonus is "balanced" (even though it's not).
tbh, the only way they can fix it is giving all the t2 ammo the 100% range bonus back... this way you don't get the 10% bonus to optimal Range of Large Energy Weapons or something... (i bet the general Amarr pilot doesn't like this over the dmg or cap bonus)...
Originally by: Sovereign533 Time will tell, sooner or later, time will tell...
Second sig removed, only 1 signature graphic please - Xorus ^_^WOOHOO!!! my Sig finally got nerfed... And now its been sigjacked, yarrrr!!! - Petwraith |
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Tribunal
FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.07 03:02:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Sovereign533
Originally by: Tribunal
Quote: And I am still amazed that this went through as a) Tux said he wanted to nerf the range though finally gave 25% extra range to one ship over all the others and b) what about newer players using projectiles and lasers ?
When players have been pointing out why the bonus is broken, before even Revelations, and CCP still releases it then it's quite simple to piece together that CCP thinks the bonus is "balanced" (even though it's not).
tbh, the only way they can fix it is giving all the t2 ammo the 100% range bonus back... this way you don't get the 10% bonus to optimal Range of Large Energy Weapons or something... (i bet the general Amarr pilot doesn't like this over the dmg or cap bonus)...
The long ranged ammos going back to 100% is exactly what I would like to not happen. Tux himself claimed that he wanted to decrease the range of combat, but then introduces a ship that pushes the range issue to the extreme. I would love to see the max targeting range of ships decreased to 200km.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Frug
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.07 04:14:00 -
[52]
Sounds kind of like one of the major issues is that getting up close with high damage ships is impractical largely due to lag. Which will get some help Soon(tm).
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - - |
Rhazh Nathule
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Posted - 2006.12.07 07:40:00 -
[53]
IMHO The rook was exactly what the Caldari needed they were supposed to be a Rail/Missile/ECM heavy race yet they had rail boats in every category except Battleship. Now this funny business about the whole 250km range wtfpwnbbq damage I don't see the problem. If I get sniped at that range then it's my own fault for MWD'ing straight at them or one of a hundred other retard manuevers. The bonus I didn't understand was the shield resist. A sniper ship shouldn't be able to tank well and hit from range. Actually on that note I think all sniper ammo is broke... who ever heard of having a long range ammo that has poor accuracy/tracking and a short range ammo that kills your velocity. I would think it should be the other way arround.
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NocturnalDeath
Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.07 09:06:00 -
[54]
Edited by: NocturnalDeath on 07/12/2006 09:09:47 Unfortunately a LOT of people unfamiliar with FLEET battles have had a lot to say in this thread. Let me give the most probable scenario.
I have a 30 man mixed fleet raiding the home system of an enemy, my covops jumps into the system and reports 10 Rokhs and 5 assorted ships sitting off the gate. My covops then maneuvers himself behind the Rokhs so my assorted fleet can jump towards them at their optimal.
My fleet jumps in..
"Whats that destroyer doing rushing at the gate? ITS AN INTERDICTOR DROPPING A BUBBLE!"
So my assorted fleet gets wtfbbq'd by the rokh's that we can't hit, AND we can't warp to our covops cuz we're in the bubbble. :/
'Lead ammo does no damage', well in FLEET battles it doesn't matter, focused fire instapops ships.
This is one of many scenarios that happens where warping to your optimal, when the enemy is already at theirs that makes your day go very bad.
Like Tribunal, I just trained up for my Rokh as well :P
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Lok Rone
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Posted - 2006.12.07 13:06:00 -
[55]
Boys, you are stranged. As far as known, Caldari are descendants of American, Japaneese, so Caldari race must be overpowered to every other race. Not now, not even in future, Caldari never be comparable to every other race. They're always must overwhelm. Live with this fact.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.07 14:07:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Pinky Denmark Yeah - What about a +10% lock range and scan resolution pr BS lv? That will make a nice fleet ship but will not be so excellent for those running 350mm railguns and Blasters...
Hell, no, the only justification for the Warp stabilizer nerf was Bad, Bad snipers with WCS and you want to create a ship to neutralize the warp stabilizers nerf?
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ArchenTheGreat
Caldari Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2006.12.07 14:43:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Orin Fatch /signed I admit, give caldari pilots a nice fleet ship, but not one that can out range every other current one in game.
Mmmm... I think Moa can outrange every other cruiser in game, Ferox can outrange every other battlecruiser in game. What is your problem exactly?
Caldari is sniping race. They should have good sniper. None whines that Dominix has best drone bay and no other BS in game can match it. Why do you whine about Rokh?
Megathron is NOT a sniping boat. It's a blaster boat. You are using ship in not intended way and you are complaining it's not as good as ship DESIGNED as sniper?
Oh, no other than Rokh BS in game is designed as sniper. It's quite logical Rokh is a best sniper ingame than.
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Lucian Corvinus
Gallente Expert Systems
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Posted - 2006.12.07 15:26:00 -
[58]
Originally by: ArchenTheGreat
Mmmm... I think Moa can outrange every other cruiser in game, Ferox can outrange every other battlecruiser in game. What is your problem exactly?
Caldari is sniping race. They should have good sniper. None whines that Dominix has best drone bay and no other BS in game can match it. Why do you whine about Rokh?
Megathron is NOT a sniping boat. It's a blaster boat. You are using ship in not intended way and you are complaining it's not as good as ship DESIGNED as sniper?
Oh, no other than Rokh BS in game is designed as sniper. It's quite logical Rokh is a best sniper ingame than.
Thx.!!
Finally someone able to express what I've been trying to say in this thread. The rokh follows the pattern for caldari turret ships. which is having range, but poor damage output.
Perhaps what all the other races meant to ask is, that the max target range is reduced from the 250 to where their optimal is, so that their high power weapons can match the rokh in range but severly outdamage it. Ofcourse all the caldari turret ship would then have their optimal bonus changed into a damage bonus and all the races would have close to similar ships... Weeee \o/
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Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2006.12.07 17:48:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 07/12/2006 18:05:38
Originally by: Lucian Corvinus Perhaps what all the other races meant to ask is, that the max target range is reduced from the 250 to where their optimal is, so that their high power weapons can match the rokh in range but severly outdamage it. Ofcourse all the caldari turret ship would then have their optimal bonus changed into a damage bonus and all the races would have close to similar ships... Weeee \o/
What you fail to understand is that it is going to end up like that anyway, with everyone in rokhs.
Moreover, your idea that the rokh supposedly follows the same pattern as the other caldari sniping ships is wrong. It simply does not trade enough damage for the range it gets. Also, sniping frigates, destroyers and (battle/assault)cruisers can be outranged (or at least matched in range) by something smaller than a capital ship, which isn't the case of the rokh.
I don't get why some of you are so stubborn to keep defending this ship as it is as, a) it's going to be nerfed anyway and b) it's not going to provide you with a tactical advantage in the medium or long term as no matter if people all fly rokhs, or not, you won't outrange anyone.
NB.
In Rust We Trust |
NocturnalDeath
Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.07 18:58:00 -
[60]
Originally by: ArchenTheGreat
Originally by: Orin Fatch /signed I admit, give caldari pilots a nice fleet ship, but not one that can out range every other current one in game.
Mmmm... I think Moa can outrange every other cruiser in game, Ferox can outrange every other battlecruiser in game. What is your problem exactly?
Caldari is sniping race. They should have good sniper. None whines that Dominix has best drone bay and no other BS in game can match it. Why do you whine about Rokh?
Megathron is NOT a sniping boat. It's a blaster boat. You are using ship in not intended way and you are complaining it's not as good as ship DESIGNED as sniper?
Oh, no other than Rokh BS in game is designed as sniper. It's quite logical Rokh is a best sniper ingame than.
"Caldari is sniping race" oh and Caldari is ECM race Caldari is Missle boat race (used to mean more) Caldari is shield tanking race
Gallente get Drones... The most bugged weapon system there ever was. Gallente get Blasters... Sweet if I land on top of the guy I might actually win!
Minimatar get Alpha strike... oh wait not anymore, T2 ammo nerf Minimatar get to train for dual weapon systems... Missiles and projectiles Minimatar get to train for shield AND armor tanking.. some ships do one, some the other
Amarr get to train Caldari...
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