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Lazy8s
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Posted - 2006.12.08 06:37:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Lazy8s on 08/12/2006 06:38:06
 Originally by: Sakura Nihil
Originally by: Lazy8s
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
Originally by: Dragerest
you must be a very bad AF pilot.
^ what he said
Or neither of you guys can fly a T1 frig very well.
Says the nameless alt  - before making claims you're a T1 frigate ace, it might help us believe you more if you posted with a main, maybe?
The only way I can imagine an AF getting assuredly beaten by three, much less two, T1 frigs is through EM or possibly nos..
Nameless alt? This is my main bro. And yes, NOS work very well for a T1 frig vs an AF. Not much they can do when they're out of cap....except caldari...x(
Maybe I just see it differently than you two but to me the longer I play (Not a huge ammount of time) the more I realize that a 30mil SP pilot doesn't have THAT much over a 10mil SP pilot as far as isk-earning goes. True they can fly totally T2 fitted ships but with the T2 prices they can't afford them very well without a mining/ratting alt. To me balancing game prices on people that have alts isn't fair. I think a way to reward players that have stuck with eve for 2 or 3 years would be to allow them to afford T2 ships. Since they will be out PvPing they wouldn't earn a ton but the lowered prices would reduce the ammount of time required to farm and allow them to enjoy the rewards that they waited years to achieve.
Now, I can't fly a T2'd out HAC or a T2'd out BS yet so I would be putting myself at a disadvantage here but I think it's just fair. If I had been around since the beginning and I had the skills to fly T2 everything from inty to command ship but all I could afford was intys/AFs I would be irritated. Now, I know a good majority of Eve runs 2 accounts but again, you can't balance the game on that. Part of the downfall of DAoC (aside from NF and ToA) was they balanced the new content based on people running 2 accounts to "buffbot". Maybe I'm being too nice here but I think the 30mil SP toons deserve more of an advantage than "they can fly multiple races".
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Serj Darek
Minmatar
Mentally Unstable Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.12.08 06:38:00 -
[32]
We all know you don't want the t2 bpo's on the market because you want to have untold billions of ISK for your self :P
Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
It contains my ingame name and corp ticker - Serj
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Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.08 06:41:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Lazy8s
Maybe I just see it differently than you two but to me the longer I play (Not a huge ammount of time) the more I realize that a 30mil SP pilot doesn't have THAT much over a 10mil SP pilot as far as isk-earning goes. True they can fly totally T2 fitted ships but with the T2 prices they can't afford them very well without a mining/ratting alt. To me balancing game prices on people that have alts isn't fair. I think a way to reward players that have stuck with eve for 2 or 3 years would be to allow them to afford T2 ships. Since they will be out PvPing they wouldn't earn a ton but the lowered prices would reduce the ammount of time required to farm and allow them to enjoy the rewards that they waited years to achieve.
Now, I can't fly a T2'd out HAC or a T2'd out BS yet so I would be putting myself at a disadvantage here but I think it's just fair. If I had been around since the beginning and I had the skills to fly T2 everything from inty to command ship but all I could afford was intys/AFs I would be irritated. Now, I know a good majority of Eve runs 2 accounts but again, you can't balance the game on that. Part of the downfall of DAoC (aside from NF and ToA) was they balanced the new content based on people running 2 accounts to "buffbot". Maybe I'm being too nice here but I think the 30mil SP toons deserve more of an advantage than "they can fly multiple races".
T1 is not intended to be a stepping stone, unlike Frigates the differences between cruisers, battlecruisers and their T2 equivilents aren't as great. The higher prices keep them in the realm of the elite, which is good. There's nothing special about everyone flyings HACs since you'll need to fly them to compete, whereas now high prices keep T1 as the normal gear.
Last Weeks Signature |
Syrec
Gallente
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.12.08 06:46:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Syrec on 08/12/2006 06:46:29
t2 lottery isn't a very good system
random IWINs
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Lazy8s
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Posted - 2006.12.08 06:48:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Lazy8s on 08/12/2006 06:48:41
Originally by: Aeaus
Originally by: Lazy8s
Maybe I just see it differently than you two but to me the longer I play (Not a huge ammount of time) the more I realize that a 30mil SP pilot doesn't have THAT much over a 10mil SP pilot as far as isk-earning goes. True they can fly totally T2 fitted ships but with the T2 prices they can't afford them very well without a mining/ratting alt. To me balancing game prices on people that have alts isn't fair. I think a way to reward players that have stuck with eve for 2 or 3 years would be to allow them to afford T2 ships. Since they will be out PvPing they wouldn't earn a ton but the lowered prices would reduce the ammount of time required to farm and allow them to enjoy the rewards that they waited years to achieve.
Now, I can't fly a T2'd out HAC or a T2'd out BS yet so I would be putting myself at a disadvantage here but I think it's just fair. If I had been around since the beginning and I had the skills to fly T2 everything from inty to command ship but all I could afford was intys/AFs I would be irritated. Now, I know a good majority of Eve runs 2 accounts but again, you can't balance the game on that. Part of the downfall of DAoC (aside from NF and ToA) was they balanced the new content based on people running 2 accounts to "buffbot". Maybe I'm being too nice here but I think the 30mil SP toons deserve more of an advantage than "they can fly multiple races".
T1 is not intended to be a stepping stone, unlike Frigates the differences between cruisers, battlecruisers and their T2 equivilents aren't as great. The higher prices keep them in the realm of the elite, which is good. There's nothing special about everyone flyings HACs since you'll need to fly them to compete, whereas now high prices keep T1 as the normal gear.
Last response cause it's bed time and there's no point arguing since CCP will never toss T2 BPOs on the market anyways but if you think T1 gear is the "normal" pvp gear you clearly have never fought BI, EVIL, BoB or Foundation. I think it's much more "normal" for people to fly T1 until they can fit and afford T2 gear (or faction I guess) and then they farm all they need to stay in it.
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Sakura Nihil
Tabula Rasa Systems
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.08 06:59:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Lazy8s
...if you think T1 gear is the "normal" pvp gear you clearly have never fought BI, EVIL, BoB or Foundation.
Maybe it helps to check his corp history like I should have checked yours prior to making that claim?
That being said, ASCN eh? 
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Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.08 07:00:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Lazy8s
Last response cause it's bed time and there's no point arguing since CCP will never toss T2 BPOs on the market anyways but if you think T1 gear is the "normal" pvp gear you clearly have never fought BI, EVIL, BoB or Foundation. I think it's much more "normal" for people to fly T1 until they can fit and afford T2 gear (or faction I guess) and then they farm all they need to stay in it.
And I use faction gear in half my ships. The alliances you've mentioned are at the top of the food chain and T2 BPO owners, obviously they'll be using the best. I was also refering specifically to ships. Very few T2 ships outside of interceptors are used for PVP compared to the the T1.
Last Weeks Signature |
Syrec
Gallente
Freelancing Corp
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.12.08 07:02:00 -
[38]
ill hop in my ibis and pop a cap
what what
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Khan Dhu
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2006.12.08 07:16:00 -
[39]
What I'd like to know is if the BPOs will be given out at a trickle pace, or dumped into the game like a net full of fish.
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Matori Kar
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Posted - 2006.12.08 07:26:00 -
[40]
They are just re seeding the lost/destroyed ones, they will come and go with a flash. Thats NO NEW BPOS for the blind, I'll repeat that - NO NEW BPOS.
That said, it would be better just to seed them all to the market at silly high prices anyway.
Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!! |
Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.12.08 07:30:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 08/12/2006 07:31:40
Originally by: Matori Kar
They are just re seeding the lost/destroyed ones, they will come and go with a flash. Thats NO NEW BPOS for the blind, I'll repeat that - NO NEW BPOS.
That said, it would be better just to seed them all to the market at silly high prices anyway.
I hope they won't give out BPOs over chrismas, because not everyone is at home and playing eve there. Don't want to come back in the new year and see that I got an offer, but could't take it.
CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix. |
Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2006.12.08 08:15:00 -
[42]
December 14th:
- Prices don't move
- A handful of people who previously complained about high prices go mysteriously silent
- Business continues as usual
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.08 08:15:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Chribba on 08/12/2006 08:17:44
Originally by: Plutoinum
I hope they won't give out BPOs over chrismas, because not everyone is at home and playing eve there. Don't want to come back in the new year and see that I got an offer, but could't take it.
Whaaa?!! People spend time away from EVE!!?!11 How the beep do you manage to do that?
Originally by: Ramblin Man
December 14th:
- Prices don't move
- A handful of people who previously complained about high prices go mysteriously silent
- Business continues as usual
Of course, that's the usual way, whiners whine like crazy until they get something that benefit them, then they either shut up or go rant about how good the system is.
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.12.08 08:17:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 08/12/2006 08:17:23
Originally by: Chribba
Originally by: Plutoinum
I hope they won't give out BPOs over chrismas, because not everyone is at home and playing eve there. Don't want to come back in the new year and see that I got an offer, but could't take it.
Whaaa?!! People spend time away from EVE!!?!11 How the beep do you manage to do that?
Well, if I had the free choice I'd even play EVE over chrismas. 
CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix. |
Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2006.12.08 08:20:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Plutoinum
Originally by: Chribba
Originally by: Plutoinum
I hope they won't give out BPOs over chrismas, because not everyone is at home and playing eve there. Don't want to come back in the new year and see that I got an offer, but could't take it.
Whaaa?!! People spend time away from EVE!!?!11 How the beep do you manage to do that?
We'll, if I had the free choice I'd play even EVE over chrismas.
Just hide a comp under the tree. You should be able to jet can mine while occasionally "fishing" for other's presents. 
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Dendrin Koljn
Minmatar
Elite United Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.08 08:31:00 -
[46]
So you got a lot of LP's have you ?
Hoping for a nice T2 BPO ?
If it's everything that's reseeded then maybe, just maybe you might get a ship BPO, but i doubt it. Might get 1 or 2 more people in the cartel at most.
If it's just destroyed/lost stuff reseeded then if your really lucky your'll get a mod.
Cheers for this thread - bin getting  + from the mission grief thread, and this me no end.
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Doc Extropy
Gallente
Cradle of Freedom Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.08 08:33:00 -
[47]
I will believe this at the very moment I can buy a Deimos for less than 100 million ISK. Everything else is smoke and mirrors. 
Originally by: Fortior
Good things come to those who persevere.
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Victor Valka
Caldari
Archon Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.08 08:46:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Ramblin Man
December 14th:
- Prices don't move
- A handful of people who previously complained about high prices go mysteriously silent
- Business continues as usual
A'yup.
I really can't see why even a large influx of new T2 BPOs would make the prices shift.
Some people seem to have this delusion, that, if we had more T2 BPOs, prices would be lower.
Ha! Seriously!
Supply would still remain very limited and as such T2 builders would see no reason whatsoever to sell for lower prices. I certainly wouldn't, and I'm a Nice GuyÖ.
Would you? 
Originally by: Diana Marc
Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.
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Joshua Foiritain
Gallente
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.08 09:10:00 -
[49]
God i hope i win something this time. 
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Victor Valka
Caldari
Archon Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.08 09:14:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
God i hope i win something this time.
Rub my head and I guarantee it.
Originally by: Diana Marc
Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.
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Aphotic Raven
Gallente
Spectral Armada
Eternal Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.08 09:16:00 -
[51]
Why does ccp pretend to fix things... such as t2... the devs openly acknowledge the t2 system being ****** yet then they go and compound it.. releasing some more BPOs changes nothing. the system is as ****** as ever.
Quote:
Melicien Tetro: I tried to fight a shark with a pistol underwater once, and I'll be ****ed if he didn't laugh at me and eat me. Sharks need a ******* nerf. True story
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Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2006.12.08 09:17:00 -
[52]
T2 bpo's have a habbit of make their way to the hands of those who alrady got a few of them since before. You see people get lucky, run to the forums to sell them and pocket the isk rather than think long term and milk it -)
Also seeding new t2 prints, wont necessary be prints that already been seeded before, but new ones, just have to wait and see I suppose.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
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Doc Extropy
Gallente
Cradle of Freedom Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.08 09:19:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Aphotic Raven
Why does ccp pretend to fix things... such as t2... the devs openly acknowledge the t2 system being ****** yet then they go and compound it.. releasing some more BPOs changes nothing. the system is as ****** as ever.
Main problem is:
With a FEW (!) adjustements it could be smooth, fair and fun:
* Give out BPCs only, with good ME and PE and a good number of runs and on a regular basis
* Convert all existing BPOs into BPCs
* Reconsider invention: instead of T1 -> T2 make it T1 -> named and possibly T2 -> unique
Originally by: Fortior
Good things come to those who persevere.
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Sophia Germain
Gallente
Fluxion
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Posted - 2006.12.08 09:20:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Lazy8s
Just put them on the market FFS. Everyone can fly an inty/AF after a couple of months of play anyways.
No research agents doing research? *Nelson voice* HA HA!
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Kal'rek
Minmatar
Black Lotus Heavy Industries
Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
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Posted - 2006.12.08 09:33:00 -
[55]
Great news ref:- BPO's
Good luck everyone.
Kal'rek
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Feyd Darkholme
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.08 09:44:00 -
[56]
Any idea what is being seeded this go around? Hammer never got to his blog, not that he necesarily would have given us a complete list. I'm a little short on RPs at the moment, only got about maybe 200k left...
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Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2006.12.08 09:49:00 -
[57]
Firstly, please do not comment on a system if you don't understand it. This has nothing to do with supply and demand economics. Also, I have several million RP across about 7 different characters. So far I have had the following bpo offers:
Gremlin Javelin rocket
Spike M
Javelin L
Havoc precision heavy
The last 3 I recieved this summer while on vacation and missed them :(. That being said, these 4 bpos are not very profitable and would not make me a trillionaire anytime soon.
Anyway, forgetting alliance internal markets, HACs are generally produced by people with the BPOs - fairly simple so far! Now, what happens next? Nobody is really sure. The general assumption is that the "greedy" bpo owners all agree to sell their ships/modules for a really high price because they are evil baby-eating scum. Well that may be the case sometimes, but the vast majority of t2 bpo owners will produce for their friends or simply put their items on the market at the cheapest price in order to sell them.
Hang on, if thats all that happens, surely its all supply + demand economics afterall?
NO
There is a further step, one which many people are totally unaware of.
The reason you pay so much for t2 mods AND named mods: Re-Sellers!!!!
You should be screaming for CCP to nerf reselling if everyone is so upset.
Re-Sellers purchased ships and mods for a low price and sell for a higher price. It takes a lot of initial capital to pull this off but it can be done for almost any non t1 item. Now, I don't pretend to understand excatly how resellers work, it is a very cloak and dagger world. But everyone ignores just how big of a contribution these guys make to the high prices. Given the data they have, its very difficult for CCP to analyse reselling patterns thus judge how to react.
The reasons given for seeding of new bpos are "there are more people in the game now".
This implies CCP believe that demand is high and supply is short.
Initially, I believe prices will drop. But, in 3 months time I believe everything will be the same prices again.
More blogs from that dude who did the economics analysis and calculated inflation plz CCP.
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Jennai
Ghosts of the Revolution
The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2006.12.08 09:51:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Matori Kar
They are just re seeding the lost/destroyed ones, they will come and go with a flash. Thats NO NEW BPOS for the blind, I'll repeat that - NO NEW BPOS.
actually there will be 8 new bpos for T2 heavy assault missiles.
for everything else, the cartels will just make some silly offer in the tens of billions and buy the newly-seeded BPOs, or continue with their price-fixing by buying and reselling all product on market.
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Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2006.12.08 09:54:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
God i hope i win something this time.
Rub my head and I guarantee it.
WTS: Luck!
8M a percentage point 
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Juwi Kotch
Gallente
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.12.08 09:55:00 -
[60]
The question is, what BPOs will be seeded an how many of them. Will they double the number of BPOs? Will they just fill up the lost ones? Hopefully the announced Blog for this weekend will explain.
And then there is the lottery. I'm really, really curious, if those who have been lucky multiple times already, will again be lucky multiple times. I'm afraid that the lotto engine does not work properly, for me there is no explanation, how so many people could get several BPOs out of the lottery against all odds. It is obvious, that if you are among the few who got one BPO, you're chances are greater to get another one, instead of slimmer... (and I'm talking about lottery, not bought BPOs).
Juwi Kotch
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