Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
SSandra
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 02:19:00 -
[1]
Thank you so much. Been waiting and waiting for this.
|
Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 02:21:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 08/12/2006 02:22:37 um, link please? EDIT: Found it
|
SSandra
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 02:23:00 -
[3]
Log out of Eve and log back in. It's in the little box!
|
ToxicFire
Warlords Corp The Core Collective
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 02:31:00 -
[4]
"And it was as if millions of T2 producers cried out then were silenced" man i love that quote
say buh bye to cartels until T3
Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
|
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 02:35:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 08/12/2006 02:36:09
Originally by: ToxicFire "And it was as if millions of T2 producers cried out then were silenced" man i love that quote
say buh bye to cartels until T3
What people will soon find out is that there were no cartels in the first place, just a few thousand Vagabond pilots desperate for replacement HACs
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
Oarta
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 02:38:00 -
[6]
Hmm.. It says re-seeding those that were lost and destroyed. I wonder off hand how many actually fall under this category.
|
Montaire
Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 02:39:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 08/12/2006 02:36:09
Originally by: ToxicFire "And it was as if millions of T2 producers cried out then were silenced" man i love that quote
say buh bye to cartels until T3
What people will soon find out is that there were no cartels in the first place, just a few thousand Vagabond pilots desperate for replacement HACs
We both know better. I'd say 10 of the 20 of each HAC BPO is in the hands of 1 of 3 alliances.
|
DefJam101
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 02:39:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 08/12/2006 02:36:09
Originally by: ToxicFire "And it was as if millions of T2 producers cried out then were silenced" man i love that quote
say buh bye to cartels until T3
What people will soon find out is that there were no cartels in the first place, just a few thousand Vagabond pilots desperate for replacement HACs
I'll have to get lofty to translate that for me.
***
|
Caliente Loot
Bleak Op's Safe And Fun Environment
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 02:51:00 -
[9]
I personally don't care about the cartels. I am just hoping for an opportunity at a BPO...which will finally be here...w00t.
--
|
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 02:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Montaire
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: ToxicFire "And it was as if millions of T2 producers cried out then were silenced" man i love that quote
say buh bye to cartels until T3
What people will soon find out is that there were no cartels in the first place, just a few thousand Vagabond pilots desperate for replacement HACs
We both know better. I'd say 10 of the 20 of each HAC BPO is in the hands of 1 of 3 alliances.
That's probably true. But its not a cartel--its just alliances selling them to their own pilots for their own benefit. They're not teaming up with each other.
-[23] Member-
Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON! |
|
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 03:09:00 -
[11]
Looking forward to paying a sane price for covert ops cloaks in spring. Maybe.
|
Arii Smith
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 03:12:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Montaire
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: ToxicFire "And it was as if millions of T2 producers cried out then were silenced" man i love that quote
say buh bye to cartels until T3
What people will soon find out is that there were no cartels in the first place, just a few thousand Vagabond pilots desperate for replacement HACs
We both know better. I'd say 10 of the 20 of each HAC BPO is in the hands of 1 of 3 alliances.
That's probably true. But its not a cartel--its just alliances selling them to their own pilots for their own benefit. They're not teaming up with each other.
If 1-3 alliances control the market, you had better be a part of those 1-3 alliances if you want to pay a fair price...
osnap that is what a cartel is.
|
2SecondsTilMidnight
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 04:49:00 -
[13]
Heavy missle launchers might be affordable again!
|
Maltrox
Minmatar Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 04:55:00 -
[14]
Question, and I don't know much about T2 BPO's so please, save the flames:
With this announcement, does reseeding indicate that T2 BPO's will be available on the market as are T1 BPO's, or does this mean that T2 BPO's will only be reseeded for people "in the know", that is, those with RnD agents and the like?
|
Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 05:01:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Maltrox Question, and I don't know much about T2 BPO's so please, save the flames:
With this announcement, does reseeding indicate that T2 BPO's will be available on the market as are T1 BPO's, or does this mean that T2 BPO's will only be reseeded for people "in the know", that is, those with RnD agents and the like?
The BPOs will be put in the lottery and people with research agents might get a chance to win one.
Last Weeks Signature |
Lazy8s
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 05:02:00 -
[16]
Just put them on the market FFS. Everyone can fly an inty/AF after a couple of months of play anyways.
|
Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 05:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lazy8s Just put them on the market FFS. Everyone can fly an inty/AF after a couple of months of play anyways.
No, damn it, no, what is wrong with you people?
|
Haywood Jahblomy
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 05:09:00 -
[18]
humm i doubt there'll be such a huge effect: even if there were 10% more HACs on the market, i would expect a similar 10% drop in prices... for a very short time... then we'll be back at the ever-lasting inflation that just comes with such a static t2 concept in this dynamically growing environment.
|
Lord Frost
Minmatar The Crystal Method
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 05:11:00 -
[19]
Yah... I will take my new t2 bpo and immediatly trash it!
... umm
|
Lil Belle
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 05:11:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lazy8s Just put them on the market FFS. Everyone can fly an inty/AF after a couple of months of play anyways.
Ah yes, excellent reasoning! Everyone can fly intys/af within a few months, therefore ALL T2 BPOS MUST BE SEEDED ON MARKET, IT JUST WORKS!
|
|
Lord Frost
Minmatar The Crystal Method
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 05:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Haywood Jahblomy humm i doubt there'll be such a huge effect: even if there were 10% more HACs on the market, i would expect a similar 10% drop in prices... for a very short time... then we'll be back at the ever-lasting inflation that just comes with such a static t2 concept in this dynamically growing environment.
Not sure where I read it, but a dev posted there may even be more t2 bpos of everything to compensate for the growing eve popualtion.... so yes, prolly a huge difference. I'd be more concerned with t2 components skyrocketing.
|
Lazy8s
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 05:33:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Lazy8s on 08/12/2006 05:34:19
Originally by: Lil Belle
Originally by: Lazy8s Just put them on the market FFS. Everyone can fly an inty/AF after a couple of months of play anyways.
Ah yes, excellent reasoning! Everyone can fly intys/af within a few months, therefore ALL T2 BPOS MUST BE SEEDED ON MARKET, IT JUST WORKS!
Ok give a good reason not to. They are not significantly better in PvP. They are better but it's not like an AF can take out 2 or 3 frigates solo. They wouldn't mess up running missions. I don't see the problem. If anything it would force people to become good at flying their ship instead of just being good at being able to afford a HAC. Now, they might need to raise the material cost so the base cost is higher, I do agree they would be too cheap as they are now, but if you put the HAC BPOs on the market and made them cost 50mil a piece in mats what would be the problem? The only reason not to is to artificially inflate the prices. I haven't heard a good argument for T2 BPOs not being sold openly on the market yet. Perhaps it exist but I haven't heard it yet.
Originally by: Gamer4liff
Originally by: Lazy8s Just put them on the market FFS. Everyone can fly an inty/AF after a couple of months of play anyways.
No, damn it, no, what is wrong with you people?
Again, why not? If there's a good reason I would change my mind, but I just can't think of one.
|
Dao 2
Generals Of Destruction Syndicate Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 05:56:00 -
[23]
yay for cheaper t2 **** \o/ ;p ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p)
the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that
Also the gal |
Dragerest
Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 06:08:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Lazy8s Edited by: Lazy8s on 08/12/2006 05:34:19
Originally by: Lil Belle
Originally by: Lazy8s Just put them on the market FFS. Everyone can fly an inty/AF after a couple of months of play anyways.
Ah yes, excellent reasoning! Everyone can fly intys/af within a few months, therefore ALL T2 BPOS MUST BE SEEDED ON MARKET, IT JUST WORKS!
Ok give a good reason not to. They are not significantly better in PvP. They are better but it's not like an AF can take out 2 or 3 frigates solo. They wouldn't mess up running missions. I don't see the problem. If anything it would force people to become good at flying their ship instead of just being good at being able to afford a HAC. Now, they might need to raise the material cost so the base cost is higher, I do agree they would be too cheap as they are now, but if you put the HAC BPOs on the market and made them cost 50mil a piece in mats what would be the problem? The only reason not to is to artificially inflate the prices. I haven't heard a good argument for T2 BPOs not being sold openly on the market yet. Perhaps it exist but I haven't heard it yet.
Originally by: Gamer4liff
Originally by: Lazy8s Just put them on the market FFS. Everyone can fly an inty/AF after a couple of months of play anyways.
No, damn it, no, what is wrong with you people?
Again, why not? If there's a good reason I would change my mind, but I just can't think of one.
you must be a very bad AF pilot.
For your tech 2 needs www.evetrust.com
|
Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 06:13:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lazy8s They are not significantly better in PvP. They are better but it's not like an AF can take out 2 or 3 frigates solo.
I believe the proper term would be massacre, extreme resists and damage for a frig, would kick the other frigates asses unless it was situation (web, scram and hit from distance) kind of stuff which often doesn't work without a lot of coordination.
Last Weeks Signature |
Sakura Nihil
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 06:13:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dragerest you must be a very bad AF pilot.
^ what he said
|
Brutor Shaun
Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 06:18:00 -
[27]
Not trying to be funny, but what difference is this going to make?
Do you honestly think the new BPO holders aren't going to become just as greedy? I don't think prices will change much.
|
Lazy8s
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 06:23:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
Originally by: Dragerest you must be a very bad AF pilot.
^ what he said
Or neither of you guys can fly a T1 frig very well. That's the other possibility. You know, just tossing it out there. 1v1 yeah an AF wins in most cases (of course if they were cheap most everyone would be in an AF then it wouldn't be a huge advantage) but you get a friend to help you with the AF and it's no big deal. Just like every other MMO I have played over the last 8 or 9 years, you can't balance PvP on 1v1 situations. If an AF is giving you problems bring a cruiser or a BC. Just because a vagabond can own a stabber 1v1 doesn't mean vagabonds shouldn't be 50mil.
|
Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 06:27:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Lazy8s
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
Originally by: Dragerest you must be a very bad AF pilot.
^ what he said
Or neither of you guys can fly a T1 frig very well. That's the other possibility. You know, just tossing it out there. 1v1 yeah an AF wins in most cases (of course if they were cheap most everyone would be in an AF then it wouldn't be a huge advantage) but you get a friend to help you with the AF and it's no big deal. Just like every other MMO I have played over the last 8 or 9 years, you can't balance PvP on 1v1 situations. If an AF is giving you problems bring a cruiser or a BC. Just because a vagabond can own a stabber 1v1 doesn't mean vagabonds shouldn't be 50mil.
Or it's just that having 25% more damage, 50% more range, 75% more reists on primary racial, 50% more reists on secondary racial.
2 - 4 x more HP
More capacitor, and about 40% more fitting makes you kill Tech I frigs like they were nothing. Honestly I can't imagine a good AF pilot losing to 3 Tech I frigates unless it was situational.
Last Weeks Signature |
Sakura Nihil
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 06:29:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lazy8s
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
Originally by: Dragerest you must be a very bad AF pilot.
^ what he said
Or neither of you guys can fly a T1 frig very well.
Says the nameless alt .
|
|
Lazy8s
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 06:37:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Lazy8s on 08/12/2006 06:38:06
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
Originally by: Lazy8s
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
Originally by: Dragerest you must be a very bad AF pilot.
^ what he said
Or neither of you guys can fly a T1 frig very well.
Says the nameless alt - before making claims you're a T1 frigate ace, it might help us believe you more if you posted with a main, maybe?
The only way I can imagine an AF getting assuredly beaten by three, much less two, T1 frigs is through EM or possibly nos..
Nameless alt? This is my main bro. And yes, NOS work very well for a T1 frig vs an AF. Not much they can do when they're out of cap....except caldari...x(
Maybe I just see it differently than you two but to me the longer I play (Not a huge ammount of time) the more I realize that a 30mil SP pilot doesn't have THAT much over a 10mil SP pilot as far as isk-earning goes. True they can fly totally T2 fitted ships but with the T2 prices they can't afford them very well without a mining/ratting alt. To me balancing game prices on people that have alts isn't fair. I think a way to reward players that have stuck with eve for 2 or 3 years would be to allow them to afford T2 ships. Since they will be out PvPing they wouldn't earn a ton but the lowered prices would reduce the ammount of time required to farm and allow them to enjoy the rewards that they waited years to achieve.
Now, I can't fly a T2'd out HAC or a T2'd out BS yet so I would be putting myself at a disadvantage here but I think it's just fair. If I had been around since the beginning and I had the skills to fly T2 everything from inty to command ship but all I could afford was intys/AFs I would be irritated. Now, I know a good majority of Eve runs 2 accounts but again, you can't balance the game on that. Part of the downfall of DAoC (aside from NF and ToA) was they balanced the new content based on people running 2 accounts to "buffbot". Maybe I'm being too nice here but I think the 30mil SP toons deserve more of an advantage than "they can fly multiple races".
|
Serj Darek
Minmatar Mentally Unstable Enterprises
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 06:38:00 -
[32]
We all know you don't want the t2 bpo's on the market because you want to have untold billions of ISK for your self :P
Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes It contains my ingame name and corp ticker - Serj
|
Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 06:41:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Lazy8s
Maybe I just see it differently than you two but to me the longer I play (Not a huge ammount of time) the more I realize that a 30mil SP pilot doesn't have THAT much over a 10mil SP pilot as far as isk-earning goes. True they can fly totally T2 fitted ships but with the T2 prices they can't afford them very well without a mining/ratting alt. To me balancing game prices on people that have alts isn't fair. I think a way to reward players that have stuck with eve for 2 or 3 years would be to allow them to afford T2 ships. Since they will be out PvPing they wouldn't earn a ton but the lowered prices would reduce the ammount of time required to farm and allow them to enjoy the rewards that they waited years to achieve.
Now, I can't fly a T2'd out HAC or a T2'd out BS yet so I would be putting myself at a disadvantage here but I think it's just fair. If I had been around since the beginning and I had the skills to fly T2 everything from inty to command ship but all I could afford was intys/AFs I would be irritated. Now, I know a good majority of Eve runs 2 accounts but again, you can't balance the game on that. Part of the downfall of DAoC (aside from NF and ToA) was they balanced the new content based on people running 2 accounts to "buffbot". Maybe I'm being too nice here but I think the 30mil SP toons deserve more of an advantage than "they can fly multiple races".
T1 is not intended to be a stepping stone, unlike Frigates the differences between cruisers, battlecruisers and their T2 equivilents aren't as great. The higher prices keep them in the realm of the elite, which is good. There's nothing special about everyone flyings HACs since you'll need to fly them to compete, whereas now high prices keep T1 as the normal gear.
Last Weeks Signature |
Syrec
Gallente Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 06:46:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Syrec on 08/12/2006 06:46:29 t2 lottery isn't a very good system
random IWINs
|
Lazy8s
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 06:48:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Lazy8s on 08/12/2006 06:48:41
Originally by: Aeaus
Originally by: Lazy8s
Maybe I just see it differently than you two but to me the longer I play (Not a huge ammount of time) the more I realize that a 30mil SP pilot doesn't have THAT much over a 10mil SP pilot as far as isk-earning goes. True they can fly totally T2 fitted ships but with the T2 prices they can't afford them very well without a mining/ratting alt. To me balancing game prices on people that have alts isn't fair. I think a way to reward players that have stuck with eve for 2 or 3 years would be to allow them to afford T2 ships. Since they will be out PvPing they wouldn't earn a ton but the lowered prices would reduce the ammount of time required to farm and allow them to enjoy the rewards that they waited years to achieve.
Now, I can't fly a T2'd out HAC or a T2'd out BS yet so I would be putting myself at a disadvantage here but I think it's just fair. If I had been around since the beginning and I had the skills to fly T2 everything from inty to command ship but all I could afford was intys/AFs I would be irritated. Now, I know a good majority of Eve runs 2 accounts but again, you can't balance the game on that. Part of the downfall of DAoC (aside from NF and ToA) was they balanced the new content based on people running 2 accounts to "buffbot". Maybe I'm being too nice here but I think the 30mil SP toons deserve more of an advantage than "they can fly multiple races".
T1 is not intended to be a stepping stone, unlike Frigates the differences between cruisers, battlecruisers and their T2 equivilents aren't as great. The higher prices keep them in the realm of the elite, which is good. There's nothing special about everyone flyings HACs since you'll need to fly them to compete, whereas now high prices keep T1 as the normal gear.
Last response cause it's bed time and there's no point arguing since CCP will never toss T2 BPOs on the market anyways but if you think T1 gear is the "normal" pvp gear you clearly have never fought BI, EVIL, BoB or Foundation. I think it's much more "normal" for people to fly T1 until they can fit and afford T2 gear (or faction I guess) and then they farm all they need to stay in it.
|
Sakura Nihil
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 06:59:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Lazy8s ...if you think T1 gear is the "normal" pvp gear you clearly have never fought BI, EVIL, BoB or Foundation.
Maybe it helps to check his corp history like I should have checked yours prior to making that claim?
That being said, ASCN eh?
|
Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 07:00:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Lazy8s Last response cause it's bed time and there's no point arguing since CCP will never toss T2 BPOs on the market anyways but if you think T1 gear is the "normal" pvp gear you clearly have never fought BI, EVIL, BoB or Foundation. I think it's much more "normal" for people to fly T1 until they can fit and afford T2 gear (or faction I guess) and then they farm all they need to stay in it.
And I use faction gear in half my ships. The alliances you've mentioned are at the top of the food chain and T2 BPO owners, obviously they'll be using the best. I was also refering specifically to ships. Very few T2 ships outside of interceptors are used for PVP compared to the the T1.
Last Weeks Signature |
Syrec
Gallente Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 07:02:00 -
[38]
ill hop in my ibis and pop a cap
what what
|
Khan Dhu
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 07:16:00 -
[39]
What I'd like to know is if the BPOs will be given out at a trickle pace, or dumped into the game like a net full of fish.
|
Matori Kar
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 07:26:00 -
[40]
They are just re seeding the lost/destroyed ones, they will come and go with a flash. Thats NO NEW BPOS for the blind, I'll repeat that - NO NEW BPOS.
That said, it would be better just to seed them all to the market at silly high prices anyway. Caldari: Don't have to worry about transversal, falloff/optimal, cap, tracking, how your damage type is being tanked,ship speed, the direction you are moving... etc. Easy Mode w00t!! |
|
Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 07:30:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 08/12/2006 07:31:40
Originally by: Matori Kar They are just re seeding the lost/destroyed ones, they will come and go with a flash. Thats NO NEW BPOS for the blind, I'll repeat that - NO NEW BPOS.
That said, it would be better just to seed them all to the market at silly high prices anyway.
I hope they won't give out BPOs over chrismas, because not everyone is at home and playing eve there. Don't want to come back in the new year and see that I got an offer, but could't take it.
CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix. |
Ramblin Man
Empyreum
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 08:15:00 -
[42]
December 14th: - Prices don't move - A handful of people who previously complained about high prices go mysteriously silent - Business continues as usual
|
|
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 08:15:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Chribba on 08/12/2006 08:17:44
Originally by: Plutoinum I hope they won't give out BPOs over chrismas, because not everyone is at home and playing eve there. Don't want to come back in the new year and see that I got an offer, but could't take it.
Whaaa?!! People spend time away from EVE!!?!11 How the beep do you manage to do that?
Originally by: Ramblin Man December 14th: - Prices don't move - A handful of people who previously complained about high prices go mysteriously silent - Business continues as usual
Of course, that's the usual way, whiners whine like crazy until they get something that benefit them, then they either shut up or go rant about how good the system is.
EVE-Files | EVE-Search | Monitor this Thread |
|
Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 08:17:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 08/12/2006 08:17:23
Originally by: Chribba
Originally by: Plutoinum I hope they won't give out BPOs over chrismas, because not everyone is at home and playing eve there. Don't want to come back in the new year and see that I got an offer, but could't take it.
Whaaa?!! People spend time away from EVE!!?!11 How the beep do you manage to do that?
Well, if I had the free choice I'd even play EVE over chrismas.
CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix. |
Ramblin Man
Empyreum
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 08:20:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Plutoinum
Originally by: Chribba
Originally by: Plutoinum I hope they won't give out BPOs over chrismas, because not everyone is at home and playing eve there. Don't want to come back in the new year and see that I got an offer, but could't take it.
Whaaa?!! People spend time away from EVE!!?!11 How the beep do you manage to do that?
We'll, if I had the free choice I'd play even EVE over chrismas.
Just hide a comp under the tree. You should be able to jet can mine while occasionally "fishing" for other's presents.
|
Dendrin Koljn
Minmatar Elite United Corp
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 08:31:00 -
[46]
So you got a lot of LP's have you ?
Hoping for a nice T2 BPO ?
If it's everything that's reseeded then maybe, just maybe you might get a ship BPO, but i doubt it. Might get 1 or 2 more people in the cartel at most.
If it's just destroyed/lost stuff reseeded then if your really lucky your'll get a mod.
Cheers for this thread - bin getting + from the mission grief thread, and this me no end.
|
Doc Extropy
Gallente Cradle of Freedom Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 08:33:00 -
[47]
I will believe this at the very moment I can buy a Deimos for less than 100 million ISK. Everything else is smoke and mirrors.
Originally by: Fortior Good things come to those who persevere.
|
Victor Valka
Caldari Archon Industries
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 08:46:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Ramblin Man December 14th: - Prices don't move - A handful of people who previously complained about high prices go mysteriously silent - Business continues as usual
A'yup.
I really can't see why even a large influx of new T2 BPOs would make the prices shift.
Some people seem to have this delusion, that, if we had more T2 BPOs, prices would be lower.
Ha! Seriously!
Supply would still remain very limited and as such T2 builders would see no reason whatsoever to sell for lower prices. I certainly wouldn't, and I'm a Nice GuyÖ.
Would you?
Originally by: Diana Marc Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.
|
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 09:10:00 -
[49]
God i hope i win something this time. -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Victor Valka
Caldari Archon Industries
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 09:14:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain God i hope i win something this time.
Rub my head and I guarantee it.
Originally by: Diana Marc Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.
|
|
Aphotic Raven
Gallente Spectral Armada Eternal Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 09:16:00 -
[51]
Why does ccp pretend to fix things... such as t2... the devs openly acknowledge the t2 system being ****** yet then they go and compound it.. releasing some more BPOs changes nothing. the system is as ****** as ever.
Quote: Melicien Tetro: I tried to fight a shark with a pistol underwater once, and I'll be ****ed if he didn't laugh at me and eat me. Sharks need a ******* nerf. True story
|
Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 09:17:00 -
[52]
T2 bpo's have a habbit of make their way to the hands of those who alrady got a few of them since before. You see people get lucky, run to the forums to sell them and pocket the isk rather than think long term and milk it -)
Also seeding new t2 prints, wont necessary be prints that already been seeded before, but new ones, just have to wait and see I suppose.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
|
Doc Extropy
Gallente Cradle of Freedom Inc.
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 09:19:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Aphotic Raven Why does ccp pretend to fix things... such as t2... the devs openly acknowledge the t2 system being ****** yet then they go and compound it.. releasing some more BPOs changes nothing. the system is as ****** as ever.
Main problem is:
With a FEW (!) adjustements it could be smooth, fair and fun:
* Give out BPCs only, with good ME and PE and a good number of runs and on a regular basis * Convert all existing BPOs into BPCs * Reconsider invention: instead of T1 -> T2 make it T1 -> named and possibly T2 -> unique
Originally by: Fortior Good things come to those who persevere.
|
Sophia Germain
Gallente Fluxion
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 09:20:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Lazy8s Just put them on the market FFS. Everyone can fly an inty/AF after a couple of months of play anyways.
No research agents doing research? *Nelson voice* HA HA!
|
Kal'rek
Minmatar Black Lotus Heavy Industries Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 09:33:00 -
[55]
Great news ref:- BPO's
Good luck everyone.
Kal'rek
|
Feyd Darkholme
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 09:44:00 -
[56]
Any idea what is being seeded this go around? Hammer never got to his blog, not that he necesarily would have given us a complete list. I'm a little short on RPs at the moment, only got about maybe 200k left... ---------------
|
Shin Ra
BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 09:49:00 -
[57]
Firstly, please do not comment on a system if you don't understand it. This has nothing to do with supply and demand economics. Also, I have several million RP across about 7 different characters. So far I have had the following bpo offers:
Gremlin Javelin rocket Spike M Javelin L Havoc precision heavy
The last 3 I recieved this summer while on vacation and missed them :(. That being said, these 4 bpos are not very profitable and would not make me a trillionaire anytime soon.
Anyway, forgetting alliance internal markets, HACs are generally produced by people with the BPOs - fairly simple so far! Now, what happens next? Nobody is really sure. The general assumption is that the "greedy" bpo owners all agree to sell their ships/modules for a really high price because they are evil baby-eating scum. Well that may be the case sometimes, but the vast majority of t2 bpo owners will produce for their friends or simply put their items on the market at the cheapest price in order to sell them.
Hang on, if thats all that happens, surely its all supply + demand economics afterall?
NO
There is a further step, one which many people are totally unaware of.
The reason you pay so much for t2 mods AND named mods: Re-Sellers!!!!
You should be screaming for CCP to nerf reselling if everyone is so upset.
Re-Sellers purchased ships and mods for a low price and sell for a higher price. It takes a lot of initial capital to pull this off but it can be done for almost any non t1 item. Now, I don't pretend to understand excatly how resellers work, it is a very cloak and dagger world. But everyone ignores just how big of a contribution these guys make to the high prices. Given the data they have, its very difficult for CCP to analyse reselling patterns thus judge how to react.
The reasons given for seeding of new bpos are "there are more people in the game now".
This implies CCP believe that demand is high and supply is short.
Initially, I believe prices will drop. But, in 3 months time I believe everything will be the same prices again.
More blogs from that dude who did the economics analysis and calculated inflation plz CCP.
|
Jennai
Ghosts of the Revolution The Imperial Order
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 09:51:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Matori Kar They are just re seeding the lost/destroyed ones, they will come and go with a flash. Thats NO NEW BPOS for the blind, I'll repeat that - NO NEW BPOS.
actually there will be 8 new bpos for T2 heavy assault missiles.
for everything else, the cartels will just make some silly offer in the tens of billions and buy the newly-seeded BPOs, or continue with their price-fixing by buying and reselling all product on market.
|
Ramblin Man
Empyreum
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 09:54:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain God i hope i win something this time.
Rub my head and I guarantee it.
WTS: Luck! 8M a percentage point
|
Juwi Kotch
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Confederation of Independent Corporations
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 09:55:00 -
[60]
The question is, what BPOs will be seeded an how many of them. Will they double the number of BPOs? Will they just fill up the lost ones? Hopefully the announced Blog for this weekend will explain.
And then there is the lottery. I'm really, really curious, if those who have been lucky multiple times already, will again be lucky multiple times. I'm afraid that the lotto engine does not work properly, for me there is no explanation, how so many people could get several BPOs out of the lottery against all odds. It is obvious, that if you are among the few who got one BPO, you're chances are greater to get another one, instead of slimmer... (and I'm talking about lottery, not bought BPOs).
Juwi Kotch
|
|
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 10:19:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Matori Kar They are just re seeding the lost/destroyed ones, they will come and go with a flash. Thats NO NEW BPOS for the blind, I'll repeat that - NO NEW BPOS.
Actually according to Oveur theyre also looking into seeding new bpos for items that didnt get a whole lot, as the population and t2 capable pilots has increased by a lot since bpos where first released. -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Lathaniel
Kill Em All Imperium Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 10:21:00 -
[62]
I just hope they remember to give me one on my birthday the 22nd of december
|
Aziza
Gallente Immobiliare
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 19:15:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Doc Extropy [ Main problem is: With a FEW (!) adjustements it could be smooth, fair and fun:
* Give out BPCs only, with good ME and PE and a good number of runs and on a regular basis * Convert all existing BPOs into BPCs * Reconsider invention: instead of T1 -> T2 make it T1 -> named and possibly T2 -> unique
I use T2 BPO's to make T2 BPC and sell it for profit. I invested 12 mil SP and a lot of billions of isk in this and now some clown come out of the closet and suggest to "fix the problem"? STFU! The only problem you people have is no t2 BPO in your hangar. You should get over it and move on. -------------------------
Thank you |
Tachy
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 19:24:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Aziza
Originally by: Doc Extropy [ Main problem is: With a FEW (!) adjustements it could be smooth, fair and fun:
* Give out BPCs only, with good ME and PE and a good number of runs and on a regular basis * Convert all existing BPOs into BPCs * Reconsider invention: instead of T1 -> T2 make it T1 -> named and possibly T2 -> unique
I use T2 BPO's to make T2 BPC and sell it for profit. I invested 12 mil SP and a lot of billions of isk in this and now some clown come out of the closet and suggest to "fix the problem"? STFU! The only problem you people have is no t2 BPO in your hangar. You should get over it and move on.
They don't want to know. They only see the huge profit the resellers make by gauging the market. --*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Slaaght Bana
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 19:33:00 -
[65]
There are three types of people in this world:
Those who already have a TII BPO Those who want a TII BPO Those who are lying
I endorse this signature! -Suvetar
|
Lincoln Armm
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 19:34:00 -
[66]
The presence of middleman is a expected part of any free market and does not mean its not operationg on supply and demand. The T@ market is currently an absolutly classic example of when a inelastic supply meets a steadily rising demand. Prices go up.
T2 BPO owners produce as many as they can, they then sell them for as much as they can. If they could produce more they would. There MAY be some cartels in operation that are deliberly limiting production to keep prices higher (alaa the rumored cap recharger II mafia), but this is not nessecary.
Imagine that you have a magic machine which produces a magic golden egg one an hour. At first only a few people knew about it soyou could only get a smal price fore your egg, but soon they become wildly popular. You can still only produce one egg an hour. But now many people want that single egg. Some of them are willing to pay a great deal. Perhaps your the poor honest sort that just keeps selling to for that same small price. THIS WILL MAKE NO DIFFERENCE! WHy? because some of these lucky purchasers will turn arround and sell their eggs to someone willing to pay much more.
Perhaps they don't feel "right" making a obscene profit and sell it at only a modest markup? Again IT DOESN"T MATTER. The next person in line will just sell it. The price of the golden egsss will bubble up to meet the current demand. The unseen hand of the market will out.
|
Justin Thyme
Gallente The Salvage and Reclamation Guild
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 19:41:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Justin Thyme on 08/12/2006 19:40:47 I just want to be able to buy a T2 Med Drone and not have to pay 3 mil. for something that has a base price of 95k. That would make my day.
"Hunting rats is like minning for scrap metal... and occationaly striking gold" -- Justin Thyme
I don't shoot people. That would be wrong. I do however shoot Ore Thieves. -- Justin Thyme |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 20:14:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 08/12/2006 20:16:24
Originally by: Shin Ra [...]The reason you pay so much for t2 mods AND named mods: Re-Sellers!!!!
You should be screaming for CCP to nerf reselling if everyone is so upset.
Re-Sellers purchased ships and mods for a low price and sell for a higher price. It takes a lot of initial capital to pull this off but it can be done for almost any non t1 item. Now, I don't pretend to understand excatly how resellers work, it is a very cloak and dagger world. But everyone ignores just how big of a contribution these guys make to the high prices. Given the data they have, its very difficult for CCP to analyse reselling patterns thus judge how to react. [...]
do youreally believe what you're saying there...? well at least you're honest enough to mention you have no clue how resellers have to work nor how t2 owners do it, since you are neither.... but yeah, let's scream something surprising (but completely untrue)
for enlightenment: resellers are the ones surfing the market laws: looking for bargains and selling them elsewhere for a least 10% more to make the travelling worthwhile, to overcome the 1%-3% fees and to have room for a little undercutting. in the end, expect no more than 5% profit. so far so good.
now there's a few special cases:- you found a t2 bugger and have a fair business relationship with him: he builds, you distribute. he sets the price, which is still a bit lower than any bargain, but still refers to the current market. you're still left with the usual logistics, fees and whatnot - results in just a little more profit and/or luxury to undercut competitors. in the end, expect 10-15% profit.
- you monopolize an item in an entire region. you buy all sell orders around (or just the "relevant" ones in close proximity to the local hub) and throw them back in at 20-30% more expensive. can only be done, if you're sure there's no cheaper regions from which your competitors will import those items; or the margin is too small; ooooor you monopolize all regions (bring more than 10bil for that last case or way more for the really expensive/popular stuff)
- work with buy orders. once you found the nerves to skill beyond your tiny 60 orders, you may think of running berserk with buy orders. be the highest "bidder" where you somehow discovered a not-so-greedy producer will use them (yes, those do exist here and there). rest assured, LOTS of competition down there, too -> lots of work to remain on top of the buy order list. expect roughly 20-30% profit. however, you still have to park lots of money in those orders (unless skilled very far), you need to bump each order a least 10 times a day (or at least _the_ day you are sure the next batch is getting done) and still bring that mostly huge batch to the proper systems for selling.
all of these still show, how much resellers have to be lucky with the market. there's still plenty of chances, you did not find the best bargain and a competitor will undercut you below your profit area which already ends where the fees begin. in the very end, everything depends on at what price you can sell something. and that's where the buyer comes in. _he_ is the one willing to pay up to 20mil for an invulnerability field II. all other involved parties refer to that price. resellers even have to. you could just go for an eutectics cap recharger for ~4mil instead of a cap recharger II fnr 20mil but nooooo.... just the best, eh?
|
Egil Kolsto
Caldari Collwood Collective
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 20:32:00 -
[69]
Personally, I hope for cheaper Hulks!
I wish everyone the best, I never even entered the BPO lottery and have no intention of doing it. Just drop the Hulk from 500 -> 300 and I'd be happy:)
|
Harisdrop
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 20:37:00 -
[70]
The history of Tech II
Castor: Woot bring on the lottery. RMR: Woot bring on the lottery Kali: Woot bring on the lottery
History of player feeling on tech II
Castor: Huh whats this. RMR: Man I wish there was a way I could get more RP Kali: I dont want to be left out soo change this thing before I whine more.
EVE - CCP take on tech II
Its not fair its luck. Put your cards in and out of 3billion RP you might win a tech II. Good luck we all want one. -------------------------------------
New NPC |
|
Sorela
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 21:00:00 -
[71]
It amazes me how some of you can play a game about economics for years but not even take a minute to spend a thought thinking about how the simple concept of supply and demand works.
HACS are expensive because the supply is nowhere near the demand.
No matter what this fact will not change.
Even if one of you who's angry about overpricing get the BPO and you start selling your ships for a supposedly "reasonable" price then someone with a brain and enough avarice to use it will instantly buy the ship at your "reasonable" price then resell it for the price the market will bare.
Maybe if they seed enough BPO's the price will go down but I doubt they'll do that since they planned for Invention to fill that role.
|
Paari Cuman
Windsor Trade Organization The Imperial Order
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 21:28:00 -
[72]
::quotes everyone:: "Waaaaaaaaaaaahhh I want game mechanics to work for me!!!!!!"
|
Tachy
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 22:54:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider [...] you monopolize an item in an entire region. you buy all sell orders around (or just the "relevant" ones in close proximity to the local hub) and throw them back in at 20-30% more expensive. can only be done, if you're sure there's no cheaper regions from which your competitors will import those items; or the margin is too small; ooooor you monopolize all regions (bring more than 10bil for that last case or way more for the really expensive/popular stuff) [...]
Now imagine a limited supply and huge wallets, maybe fueled by an Allianz. Do you think that market manipulations are impossible?
I know that I can corner the market for one or two items with my very limited cash. I have seen it done to about every interesting named and T2 item. --*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Apollo Balthar
Minmatar The Sausage Smuggling Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.12.08 23:59:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Syrec Edited by: Syrec on 08/12/2006 06:46:29 t2 lottery isn't a very good system
random IWINs
I'll have random I-win's over I-win farming anytime of the week.
------------------------------------------------
WTS: tech2 clue |
Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
|
Posted - 2006.12.09 00:08:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Apollo Balthar
Originally by: Syrec Edited by: Syrec on 08/12/2006 06:46:29 t2 lottery isn't a very good system
random IWINs
I'll have random I-win's over I-win farming anytime of the week.
I support this idea/concept.
|
Ravelin Eb
Minmatar Infinitus Odium
|
Posted - 2006.12.09 00:11:00 -
[76]
*plots his 60+ jump course to r&d agent*
"Vagabond BPO you shall not escape my grasp this time around."
|
L0max
|
Posted - 2006.12.09 00:31:00 -
[77]
I wish CCP would just get invention working properly before they put more BPO's to the lottery, as it's obvious that the lottery system is just so flawed, not necassarily rewarding BPO's fairly. I have seen it argued to death on these forums since I started playing eve over a year ago. It's obvious they now are not going to come up with something better than this dam lottery. I know a lot of players with insane amounts of RP, people who have just gotten into RnD over the last few months in anticipation of invention still have little to bugger all hope of picking up a BPO. It also benefits existing BPO holders who do not cash in their RP for data cores etc, disadvantaging new players who have invested heavily into RnD.
Invention is a step in the right direction but in it's current form has fallen well short, the lottery needs to stop and a fair system need to be put in place for the people willing to do the work to follow invention through. (i hate to think of the hours I have wasted grinding missions for standings, isk and skill training time on dam science skills). I have put the work in and will continue to do so if i know there is a reward at the end of it all, as nothing should just be randomly given away.
If they seed high run BPC's in the current lottery then when invention gets going use that to release BPC's to the player base. If people want to invest the time in RnD and gain RP quickly they get more BPC etc. Continued work = reward. Not gain ****e load of RP buy doing nothing then prey.
arrrrrg makes my mad....
My 2c L0max..
|
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
|
Posted - 2006.12.09 00:32:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Tachy
Originally by: Roemy Schneider [...] you monopolize an item in an entire region. you buy all sell orders around (or just the "relevant" ones in close proximity to the local hub) and throw them back in at 20-30% more expensive. can only be done, if you're sure there's no cheaper regions from which your competitors will import those items; or the margin is too small; ooooor you monopolize all regions (bring more than 10bil for that last case or way more for the really expensive/popular stuff) [...]
Now imagine a limited supply and huge wallets, maybe fueled by an Allianz. Do you think that market manipulations are impossible?
I know that I can corner the market for one or two items with my very limited cash. I have seen it done to about every interesting named and T2 item.
certainly, it can be done. question is; will it be bought? you see, once the item costs too much, more and more people will not be able to afford it. the complicated part is to find out, at which level you still have enough customers before the next delivery comes in (be that large transports from 0.0 bringing in their best-named loot or t2 builders with a sparkling batch of modues). so the answer to whose fault it is can mostly be found on the side of demand. if they wouldn't buy, we (the resellers and eventually the producers who'd loose their distros when there's no profitable reselling) would have to lower the prices until we can serve more (but less wealthy) players.
so in the end we have: a growing number of players (just celebrated 33k users - 30k was, what?, a month ago?) getting wealthier every day - opposing a fixed output of the t2 production. and in most cases, people don't go for second best. otherwise we'd just have a growing number of pilots finding best named stuff across the board.
|
fuze
Gallente Chosen Path Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.12.09 01:25:00 -
[79]
Didn't GM say they would be keeping an eye out for T2 BPO being destroyed and all? And now it's released in another single go. Sup with that?
Being a man I still can achieve multiple sarcasms. |
Oku Kee'lus
|
Posted - 2006.12.09 01:36:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Aziza I use T2 BPO's to make T2 BPC and sell it for profit. I invested 12 mil SP and a lot of billions of isk in this and now some clown come out of the closet and suggest to "fix the problem"? STFU! The only problem you people have is no t2 BPO in your hangar. You should get over it and move on.
Yeah... and the next time something I bought on the market drops in value, I'll come here and tell everyone to shut up
|
|
Martinez
Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2006.12.09 15:26:00 -
[81]
T2 items should not be the norm on all ships flown in eve. T2 should be a luxury and is for some items. As Dark Shikari and Shin Ra pointed out earlier most t2 bpos dont make huge money, yes their are a few that make great money but most of them for the work it takes to make them do not make money.
There is no way atm to have a better system than the lotto.
Why? Well a 1 month old character under the current system at least has a chance. Yes older players have the advantage as they should.
Letting all of eve have t2 stuff makes the risk of putting expensive mods on or flying a expensive ship it where "hey i just lost a hac with all t2 mods, no big deal" It should be a big deal.
Having a auction for new t2 bpos, who do you think will by them, the rich. Older players.
Making them where you can grind away and get a T2 bpo. How is that fair? Its not, unless you want eve to become WOW Jr. . Some of us have jobs and families and cannot grind away 23/7.
With the amount of money that players can make in a short period of time no one in eve is excluded from T2 bpos. yes you will have to work but you can get them from buying them and trading for them.
EXAMPLE - I have the Sleipnir bpo. I got the Sleipnir BPO by TRADING the Damnation, Purifier, and Propator bpos. I got the Purifier bpo by trading the Assualt missile launcher 2 bpo which i got from my agent. I bought the propator bpo for 2 billion. I got my Damnation bpo by trading my Sacrilidge bpo. the Sac i got from mining, mission running, npcing, and selling battleship bpcs. I bought the Sac bpo for 8 billion.
So to recap, a t2 mod bpo and 10 billion isk got me the Sleipnir bpo. so its all about hardwork and trades and anyone can get a high end t2 bpo.
|
Tachy
|
Posted - 2006.12.09 15:34:00 -
[82]
One of the devs stated that they're balancing the ships and modules around T2 - thus the fantastic changes to things like Quake T2 ammo ... --*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Miri Tirzan
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.12.09 17:17:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Serj Darek We all know you don't want the t2 bpo's on the market because you want to have untold billions of ISK for your self :P
Well, yeah. Your point?
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
|
Madcat Adams
Mission Runners Anonymous Incorporated
|
Posted - 2006.12.09 18:47:00 -
[84]
Originally by: fuze Didn't GM say they would be keeping an eye out for T2 BPO being destroyed and all? And now it's released in another single go. Sup with that?
At a guess, it's BoB vs ASCN. With ASCN being the industrial heart of Eve, and BoB no doubt having their own sizable share of the T2BPO pie, quite a few BPOs may have destroyed recently. Add in others lost over the years, and a good sized release makes sense.
It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Aimez- "oh ****, this is empire......."
Thanks for the loot, and next time you go out to pirate, carry more tech 2 plz =) |
Herculite
Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2006.12.09 19:23:00 -
[85]
The imporant thing here is to keep a broken system still broken.
Just have R&D agents give out long run BPC's at a constant rate, problems solved.
Instead its 'Who wants to be a mega billionaire!'
|
RtoZ
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 04:03:00 -
[86]
Edited by: RtoZ on 10/12/2006 04:06:14 Supply and demand:
If you have low supply and high demand, prices go up.
If you have high supply and low demand prices go down.
Market or Equilibrium Price:
The place where what sellers are willing to sell for and buyers are willing to buy for is called market or equilibrium price. This is the price the product will sell for. Price is negotiation between the buyers and the sellers.
Fiddle with these laws all you want, but in the end the prices will stabalize at a price buyers are willing to buy for and sellers are willing to sell for. Faction frigates sell for many times the price of tech frigates, and only because of rarity value. More BPO's being used would have the effect of increasing supply, untill it matched demand and it would flat level there.
Personally I would seed a lot more BPO's on the market and make it a high volume low margin market instead of a low volume high margin market fueled by scarcity, but that's just me, either way some people will make billions, some people will lose money.
As for resale, which I admit I've done a fair amount of, it simply normalizes supply and demand, in the end sellers will only sell at a price buyers will buy for and vice versa, so the net effect on actual priceing, if said item is scarce, is null. Resellers do not add or subtract items from the market, not do they force players to overpay.
Meh.
Oh, and one more thing, an interesting thing to study if possible would be the effect of suicide ganking on BPO original couriers, as im thinking this is every bit as responsible for the scarcity of tech II items as is the BoB-ASCN conflict.
|
Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter.
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 04:39:00 -
[87]
FIX INVENTION PLEEEEEEEEEEEASE
|
Nox Solaria
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 04:48:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Sakura Nihil Edited by: Sakura Nihil on 08/12/2006 06:30:41
Originally by: Lazy8s
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
Originally by: Dragerest you must be a very bad AF pilot.
^ what he said
Or neither of you guys can fly a T1 frig very well.
Says the nameless alt - before making claims you're a T1 frigate ace, it might help us believe you more if you posted with a main, maybe?
The only way I can imagine an AF getting assuredly beaten by three, much less two, T1 frigs is through EM or possibly nos.
I've seen a T1 frig take on 2 interceptors and an AF and rip them to ribbons before the T1 frig was out of shields. Only the AF got away without shields, armor, or much hull... The T1 frig was at 50% armor by then.
It's not the ship, it's the pilot. Unconventional settings often catch even superior ships flatfooted.
Rest assured, those pilots would avoid that T1 pilot in the future in a similar situation.
|
Aphotic Raven
Gallente Spectral Armada Eternal Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 04:54:00 -
[89]
Well after much *****ing about how broken the system is ive decided to buy a BPO, assuming they dont get nerfed by the time i have the cash... see you all in a few months =P
Quote: Melicien Tetro: I tried to fight a shark with a pistol underwater once, and I'll be ****ed if he didn't laugh at me and eat me. Sharks need a ******* nerf. True story
|
Herring
Pimpology Pimpology in Mining Player
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 05:09:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Brutor Shaun Not trying to be funny, but what difference is this going to make?
Do you honestly think the new BPO holders aren't going to become just as greedy? I don't think prices will change much.
Yes, but it will be new greed, not the same old greed we've seen in the past.
Wishing for better mining ships in a system near you. |
|
rodgerd
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 05:27:00 -
[91]
Edited by: rodgerd on 10/12/2006 05:27:20
Originally by: Tachy
Originally by: Roemy Schneider [...] you monopolize an item in an entire region. you buy all sell orders around (or just the "relevant" ones in close proximity to the local hub) and throw them back in at 20-30% more expensive. can only be done, if you're sure there's no cheaper regions from which your competitors will import those items; or the margin is too small; ooooor you monopolize all regions (bring more than 10bil for that last case or way more for the really expensive/popular stuff) [...]
Now imagine a limited supply and huge wallets, maybe fueled by an Allianz. Do you think that market manipulations are impossible?
I know that I can corner the market for one or two items with my very limited cash. I have seen it done to about every interesting named and T2 item.
It's called PvP. There's more to it than Counterstrike in space between 3 CHA minimaxed Achura characters, as you obviously know.
-- Not the opinions of my corp or my alliance. |
Astarte Nosferatu
House Nosferatu Sani Khal'Vecna
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 12:05:00 -
[92]
You don't *need* hundreds of thousands of RP to get a T2 BPO, I had my Pilgrim BPO from a lvl 2 agent -9 quality and 26k RP. A friend of mine had a Caldari Ship BPO with about the same amount of RP I had. With the coming patch which will reseed the T2 BPO's that were destroyed or got inactive (banned account)I have ready five lvl 2 agents, two of them with 27k RP, one with 20k, one with 10k and one with 3k. I'm feeling confident I'm going to get lucky after Wednesday
|
Brolly
Caldari The Department of Justice
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 13:00:00 -
[93]
rotflmao, I look forward to another year and however long of poeple *****ing that they still didn't get a BPO and the system is still fixed.
Invention is dead, long live invention!
If I had ú1 for every intelligent comment posted in general discussion, I'd be hideously in debt |
Hakera
Anari Higard
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 13:20:00 -
[94]
the only way I see could see this happening imo is:
1) A change in policy that T2 should increasingly become more common, hence double/triple the bpo supply.
2) reseed via T2 bpc, 250 run for a ship, 1500 run for a module for eg and continously seed weekly or monthly to in the main use up those millions of lp's accumulated before the shift to t3 primarily through invention process.
|
Scouty McScouter
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 17:36:00 -
[95]
from an RP point of view, the lotto makes no sense.
Lotto: some random agents magically figure out how to make a pwnmobile, a t2 module used by caldari ships, a t2 gun, or absolute t2 rubbish. after a certain limit is reached, the other researchers go "oh noes, too many already, lets not make any more because its already been done."
RLish system: some researchers who have been in the field a long time have a much higher chance of stumbling across a way to dramatically increase the effectiveness of an item. Distributes it to pilots who fund research. Pilots make an initial killing. Information about the item/bpo leaks out to other researchers. Researchers make more bpos. Pilots who funded THAT researcher gets less money than those who got lucky earlier.
In other words, how realistic is it THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE (times 20) of each HAC BPO in the world? I mean, if researchers understand how valuable those are, do they just twiddle their thumbs as God stops them from thinking about how to improve a caracal/stabber?
gimme a break please... My my my. Oops I just died again. What a good pie rat you are! |
Lil Belle
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 17:47:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Scouty McScouter from an RP point of view, the lotto makes no sense.
Lotto: some random agents magically figure out how to make a pwnmobile, a t2 module used by caldari ships, a t2 gun, or absolute t2 rubbish. after a certain limit is reached, the other researchers go "oh noes, too many already, lets not make any more because its already been done."
RLish system: some researchers who have been in the field a long time have a much higher chance of stumbling across a way to dramatically increase the effectiveness of an item. Distributes it to pilots who fund research. Pilots make an initial killing. Information about the item/bpo leaks out to other researchers. Researchers make more bpos. Pilots who funded THAT researcher gets less money than those who got lucky earlier.
In other words, how realistic is it THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE (times 20) of each HAC BPO in the world? I mean, if researchers understand how valuable those are, do they just twiddle their thumbs as God stops them from thinking about how to improve a caracal/stabber?
gimme a break please...
Realistically if you die you are gone for good, lets maybe add perma death to eve aswell? Oh wait, that would be bad for the game.
|
Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 17:50:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 10/12/2006 17:50:45
Originally by: Scouty McScouter from an RP point of view, the lotto makes no sense.
Lotto: some random agents magically figure out how to make a pwnmobile, a t2 module used by caldari ships, a t2 gun, or absolute t2 rubbish. after a certain limit is reached, the other researchers go "oh noes, too many already, lets not make any more because its already been done."
RLish system: some researchers who have been in the field a long time have a much higher chance of stumbling across a way to dramatically increase the effectiveness of an item. Distributes it to pilots who fund research. Pilots make an initial killing. Information about the item/bpo leaks out to other researchers. Researchers make more bpos. Pilots who funded THAT researcher gets less money than those who got lucky earlier.
In other words, how realistic is it THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE (times 20) of each HAC BPO in the world? I mean, if researchers understand how valuable those are, do they just twiddle their thumbs as God stops them from thinking about how to improve a caracal/stabber?
gimme a break please...
How realistic is it that we are in PODs in space with no FOOD or WATER and can allegedly leave our pods without instant death? how realistic is it that our ships have infinite fuel?! How realistic is it that we can go faster than the speed of light? how realistic is it that ships cannot accelerate infinitely and they have a speed threshold? How realistic is it that asteroids "respawn" after being mined out. How realistic is it that we're in space in spaceships fighting each other 2000 years in the future??
Not very
Give the RL comparison a rest.
|
Miri Tirzan
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 17:57:00 -
[98]
Well, I am really into research myself. I am really looking forward to the reseed. I have got near 400k RP in six agents.
1. 15382 2. 53001 3. 33534 4. 40493 5. 32798 6. 224062 (Cal Starship)
399274 RP
I really want to get another T2 BPO for Christmas!
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
|
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 17:58:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Aramendel on 10/12/2006 17:58:56
Originally by: Lil Belle Realistically if you die you are gone for good, lets maybe add perma death to eve aswell? Oh wait, that would be bad for the game.
Question is, is limiting t2 good for the game. Or, better, is limiting the ability to produce t2 without restrictions to about 1% of the playerbase good for the game.
One can argue that t2 is supposed to be very rare, but this is doable without giving a small minority money print machines.
|
Feyd Darkholme
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 18:02:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Scouty McScouter ...stuff...
Actually it makes perfect sense if you look at T2 BPOs a patents and/or a license to build limited to only a certain amount of builders chosen by the R&D corporation that made the technological breakthrough. ---------------
|
|
Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 18:07:00 -
[101]
It is capitalism - some people have to be super-rich, and many will have done nothing to deserve it. It is in the nature of the system that this result is produced. Think of it as an NPC station factory owner dying and leaving behind all his worldly possessions to his dear grandson [character_name]. Not got a rich relative with a business empire to pass on? Tough. Life's like that. But be grateful the tycoon's empire exists, because at least you can make use of its products and might even get a job there.
Why oh why do cogs have to envy the machine?
|
Sopheria
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 18:53:00 -
[102]
Well, I've checked across my characters and have over 1 billion Research Points, broken down as follows (and slightly rounded down!)...
214,300Caldari Starship Engineering 208,500Caldari Starship Engineering 187,800Caldari Starship Engineering 187,100Caldari Starship Engineering 43,300Electronic Engineering 13,900Electronic Engineering 8,100Electromagnetic Physics 9,200Electromagnetic Physics 10,400Electromagnetic Physics 34,400Gallentean Starship Engineerings 21,100Gallentean Starship Engineerings 16.700Laser Physics 24,000Mechanical Engineering 35,000Minmator Starship Engineering 43,000Minmator Starship Engineering 11,900Plasma Physics 9,100Plasma Physics 8,700Plasma Physics 16,300Rocket Science 15,400Rocket Science 15,100Rocket Science 12,300Rocket Science
...will I get a BPO, who knows. I don't care for Cartels and current owners, fact is I am just pure jealous of them!!!!
However do I like the lottery, absolutely. It was the best thing I read when they were not going to do away with it. I have no time to make things, but hell, it's good to dream of a good BPO!!! :D :D :D
|
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.10 20:00:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy It is capitalism - some people have to be super-rich, and many will have done nothing to deserve it. It is in the nature of the system that this result is produced.
And what says this system HAS to be that way? What if, for example, all t2 BPOs would be converted to BPCs and invention becomes the only t2 producer longterm?
Basically, what if t2 items price & availability would be caused by the amount of effort people have to invest to get them and not by limiting the amount of people who can build them?
|
Madcat Adams
Mission Runners Anonymous Incorporated
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 05:28:00 -
[104]
It's a capitalistic model, and it does make sense in it's own way. The only problem though is that no new blood can move into the business. There is supposed to be a degree of upwards mobility. Hence why us "cogs" are a bit annoyed. Invention is supposed to help, but rarity of the data interfaces once again keeps the material in the hands of large corps.
Something should be done to open up opportunitys for dedicated individuals to crash the old blood party. Atm the only viable method would be to infiltrate a super corp and liberate one of the tech 2 bpos.
Yes greed motivates many of us who desire T2, but then it's greed motivating those that say we shouldn't have them. Sorry, but just because your character has been around for ages doesn't meen the rest of us should be part of your machine. That isn't capitalism, it's stalinism.
It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Aimez- "oh ****, this is empire......."
Thanks for the loot, and next time you go out to pirate, carry more tech 2 plz =) |
Nodal Zone
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 06:27:00 -
[105]
There are a number of aspects to the "T2 lottery" that don't match the real world of research very well.
First, the part that does seem reasonable to me: there is a large element of chance in actual research. So the randomness doesn't really bother me, nor the possibility of totally striking out.
The fact that there are large pulses of T2 BPOs placed in the system in one spike, and then for years, nothing new, doesn't seem very realistic to me. The game would mirror reality much better if only a few types of BPOs were placed in the system at a time. In real-world research, fields get "hot" and people are drawn to them. For example, stem cell research is hot, and a lot of people are going into that field now. In Eve, appearance of predictable patents in a given field would indicate that it was getting "hot." So people would move to research agents in that field to try to rack up research points. However, some would chose to continue plodding along in their current fields of research, hoping that there would be a breakthrough in that field at some point in the future. So people in the game would face similar choices if there were predictable patents in only one or two fields of research at a time. "Should I change fields? Should I stick with what I know best, even though at present, there is no predictable breakthrough in the field?"
The other thing that doesn't match reality very well is the appearance of T2 BPOs in the database, before they are even seeded. Real research breakthroughs are a surprise.
If I had to ask the gamemasters for a favor, it would be to dole out the reseeded BPOs and any new T2 BPOs slowly, and to adjust the rate that they are awarded so as to prolong the process.
One of the big criticisms that I hear about the research system isn't that it is unfair, nor that T2 items are too expensive, but rather that research has been "over" for a long time, and is thus boring and uninteresting to players. Blopping a big bunch of T2 BPOs in the system in one batch, and having them evaporate quickly guarantees that this criticism will continue to be valid.
One final note... I'm not sure what algorithm the gamemasters use for distributing the BPOs, but a straight lottery ticket system somehow doesn't seem quite right. In reality, if someone has been doing research for 20 years and still hasn't hit it big, maybe there is some reason for that. Should someone with a million RPs have a better chance than someone with 100 RPs of getting a BPO? Sure. Should they have 10,000x higher chance? Probably not. I don't know exactly how to adjust that, but new entrants into a given research field probably ought to get a bit of a boost in probability of success.
|
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 07:12:00 -
[106]
whatever wednesday may bring; assuming the t2 assembly lines already are running 365.25/24/7, supply will rise a bit due to the "new" BPOs - once ...and the playerbase will keeeeep growing as cute as invention may be, it merely seems like something to burn skilltime and RP... some quite high t1 BPO prices, all that luck required for the desired t2 variation and then all those skills required to actually build the frickin' thing... i don't see it happen by an "outsider"
oh, and plz someone tell me how to invent mod strips II ^^
|
Nodal Zone
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 07:12:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Gamer4liff
How realistic is it that we are in PODs in space with no FOOD or WATER and can allegedly leave our pods without instant death? how realistic is it that our ships have infinite fuel?! How realistic is it that we can go faster than the speed of light? how realistic is it that ships cannot accelerate infinitely and they have a speed threshold? How realistic is it that asteroids "respawn" after being mined out. How realistic is it that we're in space in spaceships fighting each other 2000 years in the future??
Not very
Give the RL comparison a rest.
Sure, there are a number of aspects of "EVE physics" that have been adjusted to make the game playable. If FTL travel wasn't possible, a game played across multiple solar systems would be dreadfully slowly paced. There are also physics adjustments to facilitate combat: e.g. the maximum speed faciltiates ships turning to dogfight each other. There have been a number of treatments in science fiction of realistic space combat, and I don't think anyone is going to pay subscription fees to wait months for fleets of ships to hurl through each other at high relativistic velocities, and for the combat to be over in a few seconds, or minutes, depending on how big the fleet clouds are. Reengage? It will take days, weeks, months, years, depending on how high the closing velocity was.
Anyway, the parallels between Eve and "the real world" seem to be primarily in the economic and sociological realms. This is something that makes the creators of Eve proud (and something that I find quite remarkable.) Apparently the number of players in the game is large enough, and the rule set is appropriate, to allow emergent properties of real economies to appear.
So the real question is whether or not the creators want the world of research in Eve to mirror real situations, or whether or not it is going to continue to have a tacked-on and _ad hoc_ feel to it that it (ahem) appears to have now.
I have been slightly disappointed in this part of the game. I hope that "invention" will eventually stabilize and improve that. I do think that there are also small things that the developers could do to improve the "feel" of the research part of the game, such as gradually staging new blueprint releases, that would not involve a major overhaul of the game.
One of the things about this game that drew me to it was in fact the research angle. I rapidly realized that when I started playing, research was quite inactive, and there was no incentive to do it. It became that way because a huge bolus of T2 stuff entered the system all at once, rather than in a more gradual way. |
Anonymous Coward
Gallente Panopticon Citadel
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 08:46:00 -
[108]
There never should have been T2 BPOs, only limited-run BPCs for various amounts of RP, preferably out of an RP "store", but knowing CCP they'd probably make it somewhat random.
|
Seishomaru
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 09:54:00 -
[109]
On my point of view.. Invetion is there not to control T2 market now.. but to be ready when they introduce Tech 3. When that happens they will probably make easier yo get t2 from invention and allow T3 form invention upon T2 BPO.
Alythough a think a slight increase in BPO numbers might be required to compenste the growth on eve population
|
Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter.
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 10:39:00 -
[110]
There will never be consensus on this subject, there are two strong sides to this;
First the tech 2 bpo owners who don't wanna see their isk print machines get less ability to print isk, so they throw every sound bite they can. OHNOES, tech 2 suposed to be rare (while they get all the tech 2 they want freely, example hac for 17m instead of 250m), that's how market works, lotery is fine as it is, etc, etc, uterly bs, go study economics, more bs, bla bla bla, more soundbites...
Second the people that don't own any tech 2 bpo, people for whom tech 2 is really rare and expensive as they don't belong to X corp who "randomly" won every lotery so far, and who's fed up of having working their research agents for 2 years with nothing to see except 2 years of wasted time doing missions, people that everyime that they open market window feel like then been anal probed
Tech 2 lotery is the worst system ccp had invented, I've seen corps funding their Dreads with the sell of only 5 cruisers, now tell me that is fair. Where is the risk vs reward everyone screams around? log in alt, waste 3 minutes with market window and make 220m profit for those 3 minutes work.
Invention was a great idea, but didn't went beyond the idea as it is borked, the good thing is that ccp could fix invention easily if they didn't bent over the tech 2 lobby.
|
|
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 11:04:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Doc Extropy Give out BPCs only, with good ME and PE and a good number of runs and on a regular basis * Convert all existing BPOs into BPCs
And what about those who invested billions upon billions to get T2 bpos on auctions? ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Seishomaru
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 11:23:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Doc Extropy Give out BPCs only, with good ME and PE and a good number of runs and on a regular basis * Convert all existing BPOs into BPCs
And what about those who invested billions upon billions to get T2 bpos on auctions?
some days you win.. some days you loose. And there are several BPO that can make you billions in very few weeks.
|
Dra0cht
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 11:25:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Doc Extropy Give out BPCs only, with good ME and PE and a good number of runs and on a regular basis * Convert all existing BPOs into BPCs
And what about those who invested billions upon billions to get T2 bpos on auctions?
Errm...market conditions change, like all speculation your investment may be pay off, or not, as the case may be... If you speculated billions on T2 BPOs and production, then thats your decision, live with it, what do you want, a printing press for iskies, guarnteed, withour risk? Live by the market, die by the market, like any good capitalist
|
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 11:57:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Shadowsword And what about those who invested billions upon billions to get T2 bpos on auctions?
Positive effect for the majority > negative effect for a minority
|
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 12:09:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Dra0cht
Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Doc Extropy Give out BPCs only, with good ME and PE and a good number of runs and on a regular basis * Convert all existing BPOs into BPCs
And what about those who invested billions upon billions to get T2 bpos on auctions?
Errm...market conditions change, like all speculation your investment may be pay off, or not, as the case may be... If you speculated billions on T2 BPOs and production, then thats your decision, live with it, what do you want, a printing press for iskies, guarnteed, withour risk? Live by the market, die by the market, like any good capitalist
*I* don't have any T2 bpo, but I try to think about every consequences of a possible change before suggesting one, what it will change for everyone. Speculation is well and good, and I accept the risks of it *WHEN* they could be known beforehand.
If your banker phone you and say that the bank is on the process of shutdown down because of financial difficulties, and that you can just write off the money you had on your bank account, tell me that you won't be ****ed. After all, it's just a form of speculation, you could have chosen another bank.
My point is that replacing bpos by bpcs isn't a speculating risk, it's rewriting the rules when the game already started, and that sort of thing has to be CAREFULLY tought out, not adopted because a random guy spent 3 minutes thinking about it and tought his idea was perfect. ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 12:11:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Shadowsword And what about those who invested billions upon billions to get T2 bpos on auctions?
Positive effect for the majority > negative effect for a minority
And when the negative effect is completely out of proportions with the positive effect? It's not that simple... ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Zakgram
Apocalyptic Raiders Maelstrom Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 12:11:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Lord Frost Yah... I will take my new t2 bpo and immediatly trash it!
... umm
Please fraps this! It would *forever* be marked in history. For music I suggest Anarchy in the UK.
Make sure you get the mail opening, the accepting the bpo, it appearing in hangar, right-click, trash, "one unit of..." "ok". Bow.
|
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 12:40:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Aramendel on 11/12/2006 12:46:21
Originally by: Shadowsword And when the negative effect is completely out of proportions with the positive effect?
Exept it isn't out of propotions. Not even close.
In the big picture a minority loosing 10s and even 100s of bil mean nothing. The total and especially longterm positive effects outweight that easily.
Originally by: Shadowsword My point is that replacing bpos by bpcs isn't a speculating risk, it's rewriting the rules when the game already started
The whole point of MMORPGs is that they are constantly in change. NOTHING is sure to stay the same. And the most effective thing in it are the most likely ones to be changed. And t2 BPO are about the most effective isk-generators in the game.
|
Roshan longshot
Gallente Ordos Humanitas
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 12:54:00 -
[119]
Here is the problem about another lottery to reseed lost or destroyed TECH II BPO's.....Anyone that gets one, will sell it to highest bidder. The highest bidder will of course be a TECH II producer.
So why CCP are you doing this again?
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
|
Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 13:28:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Roshan longshot Here is the problem about another lottery to reseed lost or destroyed TECH II BPO's.....Anyone that gets one, will sell it to highest bidder. The highest bidder will of course be a TECH II producer.
So why CCP are you doing this again?
What makes you think that people who have been waiting for a T2 bpo for years would so easially part with it? I know I couldn't, not for all the isk in eve.
|
|
WrathchildeVOTF
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 13:50:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Oarta Hmm.. It says re-seeding those that were lost and destroyed. I wonder off hand how many actually fall under this category.
I had one BPO "lost" for about 1.5 years when I quit for a while. I don't think the "missing" small EMP smartbomb 2 hurt too many people, though
|
Hanna Svelasdottir
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 14:01:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Aeaus
Originally by: Lazy8s
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
Originally by: Dragerest you must be a very bad AF pilot.
^ what he said
More capacitor, and about 40% more fitting makes you kill Tech I frigs like they were nothing. Honestly I can't imagine a good AF pilot losing to 3 Tech I frigates unless it was situational.
Well, took an enyo with the tech I equivalent using a single WD and skills ;)
|
Martinez
Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 14:08:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Ishmael Hansen There will never be consensus on this subject, there are two strong sides to this;
First the tech 2 bpo owners who don't wanna see their isk print machines get less ability to print isk, so they throw every sound bite they can. OHNOES, tech 2 suposed to be rare (while they get all the tech 2 they want freely, example hac for 17m instead of 250m), that's how market works, lotery is fine as it is, etc, etc, uterly bs, go study economics, more bs, bla bla bla, more soundbites...
Second the people that don't own any tech 2 bpo, people for whom tech 2 is really rare and expensive as they don't belong to X corp who "randomly" won every lotery so far, and who's fed up of having working their research agents for 2 years with nothing to see except 2 years of wasted time doing missions, people that everyime that they open market window feel like then been anal probed
Tech 2 lotery is the worst system ccp had invented, I've seen corps funding their Dreads with the sell of only 5 cruisers, now tell me that is fair. Where is the risk vs reward everyone screams around? log in alt, waste 3 minutes with market window and make 220m profit for those 3 minutes work.
Invention was a great idea, but didn't went beyond the idea as it is borked, the good thing is that ccp could fix invention easily if they didn't bent over the tech 2 lobby.
Invention will get a work over by ccp in the future. you sir must not have a t2 bpo due to your lack of knowledge on the subject of t2 production. alot more goes into building a t2 ship than just 3 minutes of work.
that is the major problem with the lotto, the ones who havent won have no idea how much work goes into making t2 ships.
|
GoGo Yubari
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 15:08:00 -
[124]
Hmm. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind if all the BPOs turned into BPCs and the research agents started pushing BPCs out near-constantly based on RPs (maybe tweak RP acquisition mechanics somehow as well), because that would be a cool system too.
However, on the other hand, I don't agree one iota with the whiners. The current system works. The fact that you don't happen to have any BPOs doesn't mean the system is faulty any more than the fact that you don't have a Ferrari in real life makes reality broken. That the system is unfair is a feature - and a pretty good one at that.
Whatever the system that is implemented, it has to function so that t2 ships are rare and elite. If it fails to do that, then it should be chucked. Therefore changing from one system to another, with this feature remaining, would do squat to the number of whiners on the forums.
|
Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter.
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 22:34:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Martinez
Originally by: Ishmael Hansen There will never be consensus on this subject, there are two strong sides to this;
First the tech 2 bpo owners who don't wanna see their isk print machines get less ability to print isk, so they throw every sound bite they can. OHNOES, tech 2 suposed to be rare (while they get all the tech 2 they want freely, example hac for 17m instead of 250m), that's how market works, lotery is fine as it is, etc, etc, uterly bs, go study economics, more bs, bla bla bla, more soundbites...
Second the people that don't own any tech 2 bpo, people for whom tech 2 is really rare and expensive as they don't belong to X corp who "randomly" won every lotery so far, and who's fed up of having working their research agents for 2 years with nothing to see except 2 years of wasted time doing missions, people that everyime that they open market window feel like then been anal probed
Tech 2 lotery is the worst system ccp had invented, I've seen corps funding their Dreads with the sell of only 5 cruisers, now tell me that is fair. Where is the risk vs reward everyone screams around? log in alt, waste 3 minutes with market window and make 220m profit for those 3 minutes work.
Invention was a great idea, but didn't went beyond the idea as it is borked, the good thing is that ccp could fix invention easily if they didn't bent over the tech 2 lobby.
Invention will get a work over by ccp in the future. you sir must not have a t2 bpo due to your lack of knowledge on the subject of t2 production. alot more goes into building a t2 ship than just 3 minutes of work.
that is the major problem with the lotto, the ones who havent won have no idea how much work goes into making t2 ships.
It actually takes 3 minutes if you own a hac bpo and buy all components from market, you talking bout moon mining, reactions, and make the tech 2 components, in that case the hac costs around 17m and not the 27m if the bpo owner buys the stuff from market. Alliancs and corps do such, but the general hac bpo owners just logs his alt and turns on the isk making machine, 3minutes later 210+ m profit.
|
Martinez
Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 23:01:00 -
[126]
Only a small % of the t2 ships and items in the game produce high amounts of profit. One thing you are not looking at is moving the components around. rarely do you get a station with all the components needed at a good price. If you do, then you have to find a factory, not so easy in systems with high supplies of items. then you have to move your product to the areas to sell, like major trade hubs.
Hacs cost more than 17 million to make, you are not taking into account the work it takes to if you so choose to make all the components of the ship. mining, moon mining, pos fuel, the bpos, hauling, refining, and the list goes on. after all is said and done a hac cost 30+million to make. yes vagas, zealots, cerbs, ishtars, and nighthawks are expensive, most of t2 ships are not expensive.
What is a fair mark up on t2 stuff? 5%? Seems to me you are bitter about not having a bpo or something and you dont understand what it takes to make t2 stuff.
|
Risien Drogonne
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 23:12:00 -
[127]
Originally by: GoGo Yubari However, on the other hand, I don't agree one iota with the whiners. The current system works. The fact that you don't happen to have any BPOs doesn't mean the system is faulty any more than the fact that you don't have a Ferrari in real life makes reality broken. That the system is unfair is a feature - and a pretty good one at that.
Yah, you'll pardon me if I think your example there is crap. It would be more apt if Ferrarri only made a few cars (that made you rich beyond your dreams and never went down in value) and then never made any again.
|
Risien Drogonne
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 23:13:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Martinez Only a small % of the t2 ships and items in the game produce high amounts of profit. One thing you are not looking at is moving the components around. rarely do you get a station with all the components needed at a good price. If you do, then you have to find a factory, not so easy in systems with high supplies of items. then you have to move your product to the areas to sell, like major trade hubs.
Hacs cost more than 17 million to make, you are not taking into account the work it takes to if you so choose to make all the components of the ship. mining, moon mining, pos fuel, the bpos, hauling, refining, and the list goes on. after all is said and done a hac cost 30+million to make. yes vagas, zealots, cerbs, ishtars, and nighthawks are expensive, most of t2 ships are not expensive.
What is a fair mark up on t2 stuff? 5%? Seems to me you are bitter about not having a bpo or something and you dont understand what it takes to make t2 stuff.
Feel free to send me any T2 BPOs you feel are too much effort to make. I'll put them to good use. I'll wait for your evemail ingame.
Heh.
|
000Hunter000
Gallente The Lookers
|
Posted - 2006.12.11 23:29:00 -
[129]
ccp i will have my hac bpo or cs bpo now if u please
or mebbe a little T2 missile bpo? please? pretty please? Not that i'm desperate, nor will i give sexual favors (unless maybe u have some cute female devs running around i might make an exception on them), but i would be ever so gratefull
I will be looking with interest to my R&D agents for a few more days Resized tag... hope this pleases the tag ninjas from ccp :p
|
aaron 619
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 01:17:00 -
[130]
PLEASS SEED LIKE 500 hulk BPO.....we miners need a brake for our hulks, this 700 mill a pop is giving me gas,
|
|
GoGo Yubari
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 02:04:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: GoGo Yubari However, on the other hand, I don't agree one iota with the whiners. The current system works. The fact that you don't happen to have any BPOs doesn't mean the system is faulty any more than the fact that you don't have a Ferrari in real life makes reality broken. That the system is unfair is a feature - and a pretty good one at that.
Yah, you'll pardon me if I think your example there is crap. It would be more apt if Ferrarri only made a few cars (that made you rich beyond your dreams and never went down in value) and then never made any again.
Ok, how about the Bugatti Veyron? Maybe that's more apt. Anyway, the exact point of comparison isn't the point, as I picked the Ferrari to illustrate a principle (which we should be emulating in the game, rather than more specific examples), not a precise spot on what is essentially a sliding scale (the scale in eve has a lot less variety, of course).
We need elite classes of ships; with the price tags to go with it. When I have one of those things, I want to know I own something relatively special.
Whether it could be tweaked a bit to effect the prices somewhat is another thing - maybe it could. Perhaps the re-seeding of some BPOs is a step in that direction. I personally don't expect to see many ship BPOs being put into the circulation as I don't think they've been lost in any great numbers. I could be wrong about that and/or the general intent of the re-seeding as well, as at the moment I think it's more about re-seeding BPOs which have been lost from active play due to various circumstances, instead of saturating the market with more BPOs for its own sake.
|
Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter.
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 07:16:00 -
[132]
@Martinez
I do agree that some tech 2 bpos don't make much profit, but every item that has to do with caldari is freacking overpriced, Hacs, not gona even comment, and no, the aren't suposed to be that rare nor that expensive, tech 2 large guns, that is sick atm, sensor boosters, tracking computers, etc... do I need to go on?
Tech 2 owners play eve on GOD mode, it's the i-win button. But they all complain about having to work hard for their isk, now if you needed to go mining or ratting to gather the 400m needed for an hac and tech 2 fittings you had the right to complain.
Stop whinning, every tech 2 owner comes here and screams the system is good, and it's economics, etc.
|
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 09:24:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Martinez Only a small % of the t2 ships and items in the game produce high amounts of profit. One thing you are not looking at is moving the components around. rarely do you get a station with all the components needed at a good price. If you do, then you have to find a factory, not so easy in systems with high supplies of items. then you have to move your product to the areas to sell, like major trade hubs.
Hacs cost more than 17 million to make, you are not taking into account the work it takes to if you so choose to make all the components of the ship. mining, moon mining, pos fuel, the bpos, hauling, refining, and the list goes on. after all is said and done a hac cost 30+million to make. yes vagas, zealots, cerbs, ishtars, and nighthawks are expensive, most of t2 ships are not expensive.
What is a fair mark up on t2 stuff? 5%? Seems to me you are bitter about not having a bpo or something and you dont understand what it takes to make t2 stuff.
Feel free to send me any T2 BPOs you feel are too much effort to make. I'll put them to good use. I'll wait for your evemail ingame.
Heh.
The man has a point. Even if you got, say, an assault launcher II BPO, or EM plating II, for less than 1 billion, which is very cheap for a T2 bpo, you'd need way more than a year to turn up a profit.
- average assault launchers II sold by my corp per month: 70-80. - margin per assaul launcher II: 200-300k - max profit per month for that BPO: 24 millions, equivalent of 90 minutes of mission running. ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Otie Ioneg
Minmatar Federation of Builders Inc
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 09:45:00 -
[134]
sorry if this seems like a noob question, but I'm a noob :P do I have to have standing with a research agent, or do I just have to do one job for them in order to be in the lottery?
|
Rashmika Clavain
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 10:03:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Otie Ioneg sorry if this seems like a noob question, but I'm a noob :P do I have to have standing with a research agent, or do I just have to do one job for them in order to be in the lottery?
You need to have a high enough standing with the research agent (check the agent info, I think it tells you on there. beware though, the agent info shows a number rounded down).
You also need to have learned the skill relevant to the research area you are interested in and which the agent offers. The level of the skill does not matter.
|
Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 10:44:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Shadowsword The man has a point. Even if you got, say, an assault launcher II BPO, or EM plating II, for less than 1 billion, which is very cheap for a T2 bpo, you'd need way more than a year to turn up a profit.
- average assault launchers II sold by my corp per month: 70-80. - margin per assaul launcher II: 200-300k - max profit per month for that BPO: 24 millions, equivalent of 90 minutes of mission running.
Yes, not every t2 BPO is a real moneybringer - but so what? This doesn't changes anything.
The problem is that all modules do not have the same demand, yet the supply to all t2 modules is identical due to the number of BPOs. This makes some BPOs laying only normal eggs while others produce golden ones.
But the core problem of t2 BPOs does not go away just because not everyone produces golden eggs.
|
Uggster
Caldari FinFleet Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 11:22:00 -
[137]
When it is said that T2 BPO's are being "re-seeded" does this mean more are being releaced or that if there is less than the CCP magic number ingame right now then they will be topped up.
Sorry if the answers been said I dont want to read 6 pages to find it. _______________________________________________ Sig removed as inappropriate- Tirg Story of my life that one :( Views expressed ARE the views of my corp and alliance, not my own. |
Miss Overlord
Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 11:48:00 -
[138]
CCP increase depending on the player base the magic number might be 1 BPO per 10,000 characters ( including alts) so for 100,000 characters u would have 10 BPOs in circulation ( reseeding well taking them off inactive accounts is a good idea) invention was off to a good start perhaps scaling down the RP per datacore might make things better will take time for CCP to gather the data and balance like they are doing with scanprobes ( to many using em so making it harder) and exploration originally 10 per system this was dropped to 1 per 3 systems this is being increased due to not enough activity.
Factional ship apparences are tweaked depending on how many are killed ( all this balancing serves a purpose from CCPs end of course)
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
Fivo Asia
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 15:33:00 -
[139]
Edited by: Fivo Asia on 12/12/2006 15:43:08
Originally by: Victor Valka
Originally by: Ramblin Man December 14th: - Prices don't move - A handful of people who previously complained about high prices go mysteriously silent - Business continues as usual
A'yup.
I really can't see why even a large influx of new T2 BPOs would make the prices shift.
Some people seem to have this delusion, that, if we had more T2 BPOs, prices would be lower.
Ha! Seriously!
Supply would still remain very limited and as such T2 builders would see no reason whatsoever to sell for lower prices. I certainly wouldn't, and I'm a Nice GuyÖ.
Would you?
Depends. Being one of the newer players with a background of industry analysis in many MMOs, it appears that the reliance on player T2 systems doesn't serve the larger community at all in any significant numbers. For example, T2 hull modification components appear to sell at such a rare level that the supply chain of mining has little reason to exist past a couple of days work a year to supply manufacturing. Is this an economy or simply a market for extreme rarities? An artificial market would limit supplies to a purchasing public. A realistic market would strive to out produce competitors, instead of sitting on the slightest of sales in order to value them at the highest rates of return.
In a little less esoteric analogy:
There is absolutely no reason a T2 BPO owner needs to produce products other than to drive the price of items in one direction or another. There is no incentive for competition once you own these items.
|
GoGo Yubari
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 16:41:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Fivo Asia Depends. Being one of the newer players with a background of industry analysis in many MMOs, it appears that the reliance on player T2 systems doesn't serve the larger community at all in any significant numbers. For example, T2 hull modification components appear to sell at such a rare level that the supply chain of mining has little reason to exist past a couple of days work a year to supply manufacturing. Is this an economy or simply a market for extreme rarities? An artificial market would limit supplies to a purchasing public. A realistic market would strive to out produce competitors, instead of sitting on the slightest of sales in order to value them at the highest rates of return.
It really depends on the product. Some BPOs sell as fast as they can produce. Others, maybe not so. While I don't hold any statistics on which ones perform in what way, I would assume things like t2 platings do pretty badly. In my mind, the solution for that is to directly make them better (because that is the reason they aren't selling!) rather than playing around with the resulting market forces.
Of course, even if the items in question are relatively good, not all products will sell like hot cakes. It could be they are not very useful in the grand scheme of things or that the market is already saturated with them and there is no loss of items in use. Nevertheless, if there is a need for them in the market and they are overpriced, prices will go down until they reach production levels and if they still aren't cost effective enough, maybe then the construction requirements should be tweaked.
|
|
JeanPierre
Gallente Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 18:32:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Brutor Shaun Not trying to be funny, but what difference is this going to make?
Do you honestly think the new BPO holders aren't going to become just as greedy? I don't think prices will change much.
If I were to win a T2 BPO, I'd immediately undercut my competition for that product. I'd set my profit margin not at, say, 300% or higher like many do, but maybe 40% of cost, and make up the money difference in volume.
Which would make me rich in the short term (again, through volume) and drive down prices for that particular item across EVE in enough time. That would essentially peg the price in the market to cost + 40% in the long run, and once accepted as the standard, it would stay there, barring a lot of T2 BPO's for the same product disappearing.
That's what I'd do anyway.
It's all dynamic, or could be, if somebody were to put on their thinking caps and realize that greater volume at a reduced profit means greater overall profit in the long run. Lots of short term thinkers I hope to take advantage of and skin alive in the market, should I acquire a good T2 BPO (meaning, one with good product potential on the market).
------------------------------
Ever notice that people who spend money on beer, cigarettes, and lottery tickets are always complaining about being broke and not feeling well? |
Khyle
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 18:48:00 -
[142]
Edited by: Khyle on 12/12/2006 18:51:03
Everybody saying that more BPOs wont change the price(of f.e. HACs) cause its a monopoly please read this post and come back *
If you do not think its a monopoly AND the price still wont change youre just pretending to be stupid(or ... i think you can find out the second option on your own ).
* Im too lazy for two threads
|
Martinez
Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 19:14:00 -
[143]
Yes there is a supply shortage of a few t2 bpos, demand is greatly larger for a few hacs( vaga, cerb, zealot) and a few mods.
So what is ccp doing? reseeding some more bpos. we dont know what they are doing. if they seed say 12 more bpos of all of the t2 bpos before the patch that had the command ships and recons, then it might balance it out.
from what i understand is that 8 bpos where released of the ships prior to the last ship release. i heard 20 of the command ships and recons where released. i figure ccp will bring the numbers to a more equal level. thus lowering the prices a bit.
T2 is a luxury not the norm nor should it be. when t3 hits, yes maybe it should be more of the norm, but ccp will have come up with a different way of getting those bpos out so that is not the issue.
For the people saying if they had a hac bpos they would just cut their price in half, no you wouldnt. nor would you quit running a the 2 billion isk a day complexes to make it better for everyone. Everyone is out to make isk.
Remember everyone has access to r/d agents if they so choose.
|
JeanPierre
Gallente Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 19:24:00 -
[144]
Quote: T2 is a luxury not the norm nor should it be. when t3 hits, yes maybe it should be more of the norm, but ccp will have come up with a different way of getting those bpos out so that is not the issue.
Actually the way it works many times is that something normalizes, then something new is introduced to shake things up. Everybody had cars with crank handle windows on them for decades, then suddenly one day electric windows were there, and badda bing, now we all have those, and suddenly cars have CD players. Meaning, we don't wait for the new tech to come out before fully embracing the current tech many times.
Quote: For the people saying if they had a hac bpos they would just cut their price in half, no you wouldnt.
Damn straight I would. Some people think long term profit over short term profit. Make no mistakes, it's not "for the good of all" that I'd do it, I'd do it to get as many paying customers as I could and edge out the competition in volume selling at a reduced rate.
Quote: nor would you quit running a the 2 billion isk a day complexes to make it better for everyone. Everyone is out to make isk.
Which is why I'd love to steal away all the other T2 BPO holder's customers (for whatever item).
------------------------------
Ever notice that people who spend money on beer, cigarettes, and lottery tickets are always complaining about being broke and not feeling well? |
Saladin
Minmatar V I R I I Center for Disease Creation
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 19:38:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Saladin on 12/12/2006 19:38:52
Originally by: Shin Ra Firstly, please do not comment on a system if you don't understand it. This has nothing to do with supply and demand economics. Also, I have several million RP across about 7 different characters. So far I have had the following bpo offers:
Gremlin Javelin rocket Spike M Javelin L Havoc precision heavy
The last 3 I recieved this summer while on vacation and missed them :(. That being said, these 4 bpos are not very profitable and would not make me a trillionaire anytime soon.
Anyway, forgetting alliance internal markets, HACs are generally produced by people with the BPOs - fairly simple so far! Now, what happens next? Nobody is really sure. The general assumption is that the "greedy" bpo owners all agree to sell their ships/modules for a really high price because they are evil baby-eating scum. Well that may be the case sometimes, but the vast majority of t2 bpo owners will produce for their friends or simply put their items on the market at the cheapest price in order to sell them.
Hang on, if thats all that happens, surely its all supply + demand economics afterall?
NO
There is a further step, one which many people are totally unaware of.
The reason you pay so much for t2 mods AND named mods: Re-Sellers!!!!
You should be screaming for CCP to nerf reselling if everyone is so upset.
Re-Sellers purchased ships and mods for a low price and sell for a higher price. It takes a lot of initial capital to pull this off but it can be done for almost any non t1 item. Now, I don't pretend to understand excatly how resellers work, it is a very cloak and dagger world. But everyone ignores just how big of a contribution these guys make to the high prices. Given the data they have, its very difficult for CCP to analyse reselling patterns thus judge how to react.
The reasons given for seeding of new bpos are "there are more people in the game now".
This implies CCP believe that demand is high and supply is short.
Initially, I believe prices will drop. But, in 3 months time I believe everything will be the same prices again.
More blogs from that dude who did the economics analysis and calculated inflation plz CCP.
QFT.
I sell Muninns, and after Kali I spent so much cash on new stuff and TCs that I needed to sell a few Muninns quick. The 85-90mil buy orders on the markets looked attractive, and I sold them. Later on I put some more on a sell order, and noticed some people undercutting me by 1 mil or so. They were from the same stations I sold the ones earlier! Long story short, yeah there are a lot of resellers out there. The low production volume makes it easier for them to control the market. ----
|
Khyle
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 19:56:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Khyle on 12/12/2006 19:56:50 Was in response to removed post, so ignore this post happily
That does not change the basic fact that they can only sell at price X if there are enough people willing to spend X.
And if there are enough it would be foolish to sell cheaper. Resellers make a profit out of people selling cheaper cause they want the sale to occur as fast as possible.
It is not really possible to sell or resell stuff at "inflated" prices, you always have to sell at the price where the demand meets the supply if you have no monopoly. If you do have, there is still a price of optimum profit which is set by the demand (and the supply, but can be to a lesser extend) and cant be changed at will.
Things are sold for very high prices cause enough people(producing demand roughly equal to the supply) are willing to pay that prices. A change in supply always affects the price, even in monopolies, cause you cant produce more people willing to pay that price. If there would have already been more willing to pay the high price, then you could already have sold your old production capability for a higher price, cause a subgroup of the demand is bound to be willing to pay even more.
Thus, prices will always eventually go down when more BPOs come out, or people will start selling nothing at all anymore, at which point they will lower the price.
|
GoGo Yubari
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 20:05:00 -
[147]
Originally by: JeanPierre
Quote: For the people saying if they had a hac bpos they would just cut their price in half, no you wouldnt.
Damn straight I would. Some people think long term profit over short term profit. Make no mistakes, it's not "for the good of all" that I'd do it, I'd do it to get as many paying customers as I could and edge out the competition in volume selling at a reduced rate.
There would be no point to doing that. You wouldn't even need to cut the price in half, but just lower it a tiny bit and they would be ripped out of your hands (if not by the end-users, then by the re-sellers). If you would cut the price in half, you would be just throwing money away. These things pretty much sell faster than they can be produced.
|
Martinez
Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 20:20:00 -
[148]
exactly, that is why ccp is seeding more bpos. I am sure in hopes that more bpos, means less *****ing.
|
VBboy
Caldari The Phoenix Rising Distant Star Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 23:03:00 -
[149]
Does this mean all Tech 2 BPO's are being re-seeded this week...or is the lottery back for good?
Also, does this mean for those who don't win they should cash in for datacores?
Where's this Blog by Hammer?
VB
|
Zelorise
Minmatar Torchwood Institute
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 23:07:00 -
[150]
i hope me gets one and a good one at that
in the end ill get one
yarr
The Dumber people think you are, The more surprised they are when you kill them!! |
|
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.12.12 23:07:00 -
[151]
Wheres the blog? -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 :: [one page] |