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How to fix eve for new players and increase eve population

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Allysa Nar Vanilla Ice Ice Baby 0	Posted - 2015.08.13 00:38:03 - [1] - Quote I would like to say that I consider myself new to Eve online having played about every other MMO out there. I don't know if this is an appropriate forum to post this, but I know what limits Eve from attracting new players. Simply it takes too long to skill up. There is no way too power level skills. New players have the Eve learning curve to contend with. A daunting challenge in and of itself. To make matters worse the skills necessary to actually do anything in the game take years. Eve character development needs to be faster. When a new pilot joins eve they should be given way more skill points.. by way more I mean starting around 35 million skill points or so. Honestly I believe even more skill points would be better. New players would still have the eve learning curve to contend with. It would open the marketplace for new players to buy more plex to use more of the ships they normally couldn't pilot for a long time. This can easily be balanced by giving existing players the skill points that new players start with. In the end veterans and people who understand Eve will be the benefactors, but for a new player it will mean that they don't have to wait for years before feeling that they have the skill points necessary to do anything in eve. To be honest as a new player all I do anymore is queue my skills. I started my career with other characters doing mining/industrial to generate isk to do other things. Long story short I made tons of isk but my playstyle choices were limited despite having multiple accounts. Ultimately I made mistakes in building all of these as I learned the game. Anyways. Just logged on with one of my dudes to train skills. Wide variety of ships available for one race. I am considering playing again in 6 months when I have the flexibility to fly more ships.
Paranoid Loyd 6635	Posted - 2015.08.13 00:45:28 - [2] - Quote Allysa Nar wrote: I don't know if this is an appropriate forum to post this. No, it's not. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!
Allysa Nar Vanilla Ice Ice Baby 0	Posted - 2015.08.13 00:47:27 - [3] - Quote My next question would be what would be the appropriate forum. I am concerned for the corpse that is Eve as I only recently discovered it 2 years ago.
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 11224	Posted - 2015.08.13 00:50:07 - [4] - Quote There's an extensive discussion on this subject in the features and ideas sub forum. I'm inclined to shy away from this discussion here as my sum contribution would be less than constructive. Edit: here's the thread =]\|[=
Allysa Nar Vanilla Ice Ice Baby 0	Posted - 2015.08.13 00:58:17 - [5] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: There's an extensive discussion on this subject in the features and ideas sub forum. I'm inclined to shy away from this discussion here as my sum contribution would be less than constructive. Edit: here's the thread Appreciated. I will chime in before I go play other games. Got my skill queues going at least. More plex than I will ever need at the rate of Eve death.
Ralph King-Griffin Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance 11224	Posted - 2015.08.13 01:01:16 - [6] - Quote Allysa Nar wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: There's an extensive discussion on this subject in the features and ideas sub forum. I'm inclined to shy away from this discussion here as my sum contribution would be less than constructive. Edit: here's the thread Appreciated. I will chime in before I go play other games. Got my skill queues going at least. More plex than I will ever need at the rate of Eve death. No worries, can I have your stuff till you come back? I promise I'll have fun with it... =]\|[=
Azda Ja Green Skull LLC 4237	Posted - 2015.08.13 01:01:45 - [7] - Quote This sounds more like a you problem than an EVE problem. If you've been playing for two years, and you still aren't having fun, then you're not going to have fun in 6 months either. Because sometimes you die. And sometimes we are why. GSLLC is Recruiting. Grrr I tell you. Grrr.
Allysa Nar Vanilla Ice Ice Baby 0	Posted - 2015.08.13 01:08:34 - [8] - Quote Well I am sorry I suggested anything. Regards, Someone who just logs in to train skill to burn over 100 plex.
ISD Buldath ISD STAR 61	Posted - 2015.08.13 01:30:37 - [9] - Quote Topic Moved to FANDI
Shiloh Templeton Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 363	Posted - 2015.08.13 01:41:05 - [10] - Quote Allysa Nar wrote: Eve character development needs to be faster. When a new pilot joins eve they should be given way more skill points.. by way more I mean starting around 35 million skill points or so. At first I thought this post was a plant from the faction that wants new players to start off with 1 million skill points and no attributes -- but 35 Million SP??! That's like saying marriage should start off with the 7 year itch. You'd miss the wide eye'd honeymoon period, the first big fight where she goes back to mama, the first big make up where you realize you really want to be in this for keeps, the discussions about whether you are ready for a family (alts), the panic rushing to the hospital, the realization that the fragile little thing looking back at you is the best thing you ever did in your life, being surprised at how little sleep you can function on (CTA's), etc. etc. If you're really in that big of a hurry you could always just buy a character (escort service).
Webvan All Kill No Skill 12441	Posted - 2015.08.13 01:52:53 - [11] - Quote Allysa Nar wrote: Simply it takes too long to skill up. There is no way too power level skills. New players have the Eve learning curve to contend with. A daunting challenge in and of itself. To make matters worse the skills necessary to actually do anything in the game take years. Not really. Only if you are focused on PLEX so you can play EVE like all the F2P's out there... which are a pox on the genre. Otherwise, if playing for actual fun, low SP characters are a hell of a lot of fun. And yeah, if you are not having fun with 3m SP, you still won't be having fun with 30m SP. I'm in it for the money Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Beta Maoye 72	Posted - 2015.08.13 02:03:23 - [12] - Quote To be frank, I wouldn't renew the subscription if 35 million sp is given to starter. Characters with 35 million sp can do pretty much anything in the game. I will create one-month new accounts whenever I want to play EVE. Fantastic gift to players, right? The only problem is EVE server will be closed soon if everybody stop subscription.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 24648	Posted - 2015.08.13 02:08:35 - [13] - Quote A newbie with 35M SP is still a newbie, one that has no idea on how to leverage that SP effectively. The SP system is designed around learning the nuances of both the ships and the game as they progress. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Donnachadh United Allegiance of Undesirables 435	Posted - 2015.08.13 03:21:14 - [14] - Quote OP if you are still reading this here is an alternate thought on this. EvE is a complex game and it can take months for some / many to master the many basic aspects of the game. The current limits placed on new / newer players serve as a buffer of sorts limiting what you can do and therefore directing, suggesting, or flat out requiring you to get a handle on those basics. That seems draconian and you would likely disagree with this, what I would like if you stick it out is to hear what your opinions of this issue are 6 months or a year from now. For what it is worth CCP is currently struggling with the new player situation and they have admitted that more skill points at the start are a possible change but even then they are only talking about a few million SP not 35 million. Others before me have mentioned the character bazaar and the ability to buy a high SP character. My experience with this is limited but the few people I know that have done this when they first started the game ended up quitting anyway since they as players did not posses the skills and knowledge to be able to properly use those characters. It has not been stated directly so I will. Outside of the character bazaar the simple fact that there is no way to "power level" characters as you called it is and always has been one of EvE's greatest strengths. Why? to be blunt and honest it eliminates the character skills based advantages that some players have over others simply due to the amount of hours per week they can or will dedicate to playing this game.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 75	Posted - 2015.08.13 03:31:45 - [15] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Allysa Nar wrote: I don't know if this is an appropriate forum to post this. No, it's not. LOL
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 75	Posted - 2015.08.13 03:33:28 - [16] - Quote Allysa Nar wrote: I would like to say that I consider myself new to Eve online having played about every other MMO out there. I don't know if this is an appropriate forum to post this, but I know what limits Eve from attracting new players. Simply it takes too long to skill up. There is no way too power level skills. New players have the Eve learning curve to contend with. A daunting challenge in and of itself. To make matters worse the skills necessary to actually do anything in the game take years. Eve character development needs to be faster. When a new pilot joins eve they should be given way more skill points.. by way more I mean starting around 35 million skill points or so. Honestly I believe even more skill points would be better. New players would still have the eve learning curve to contend with. It would open the marketplace for new players to buy more plex to use more of the ships they normally couldn't pilot for a long time. This can easily be balanced by giving existing players the skill points that new players start with. In the end veterans and people who understand Eve will be the benefactors, but for a new player it will mean that they don't have to wait for years before feeling that they have the skill points necessary to do anything in eve. To be honest as a new player all I do anymore is queue my skills. I started my career with other characters doing mining/industrial to generate isk to do other things. Long story short I made tons of isk but my playstyle choices were limited despite having multiple accounts. Ultimately I made mistakes in building all of these as I learned the game. Anyways. Just logged on with one of my dudes to train skills. Wide variety of ships available for one race. I am considering playing again in 6 months when I have the flexibility to fly more ships. Pathetic!!
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2552	Posted - 2015.08.13 04:15:19 - [17] - Quote Allysa Nar wrote: Simply it takes too long to skill up. There is no way too power level skills. New players have the Eve learning curve to contend with. A daunting challenge in and of itself. It's a daunting challenge to learn to play EVE properly. Take it from me, you really are better off learning the ropes as you train, and not having the skills before you're ready to use them. With some careful planning, you can be cut out for a wide variety of ships within weeks, and becoming proficient with them in mere months--that's how long it'll take you to really get the hang of those ships and EVE combat anyway. Paranoid Loyd wrote: Allysa Nar wrote: I don't know if this is an appropriate forum to post this. No, it's not. ~~This is the correct forum for your post, but I think he's saying that your subject matter isn't something that should be posted at all.~~ edit: I see it was moved to "FANDI" (F&ID) by ISD after it was posted. Truth be told, it has been addressed many times in the past and is one of the top 100 hottest subjects that have been beaten to a bloody pulp and beyond. To summarize: 1.) CCP believes (rightly so) that keeping the training gradual and smooth is important to giving new players the right experience to make them stay long-term as well as being the right way to keep older players. 2.) Too many new players want instant gratification, and EVE is a game that refuses adamantly to cater to that whim. Games that offer instant gratification burn out quickly, but EVE Online is a long-term game. That requires long-term players. 3.) Most players never will like EVE. It's a strange playstyle that will never appeal to a majority audience, no matter how it's advertised. For this reason, CCP's adverts glorify the aspects of the game that help filter out the new arrivals, pushing people away who wouldn't have stayed anyway, and hopefully attracting the ones who will. But the fact of the matter is that the majority of the new players quit within a month and no matter how well the new player experience is improved that fact is not likely to change. There are lots of issues with the new player experience and CCP is addressing them very slowly and painstakingly, but they are gradually getting addressed. The game is vastly more newbie-friendly than it was ten years ago. But it's still a game that's not for everyone. Lastly, I can say to you that you can "grind" quickly by purchasing a trained character in the Character Bazaar--this is a fully legal way to obtain a character with way more skills than you have trained. I'll recommend you not do this. Here's what happens way too often: * Na+»ve Newbie buys trained character * Na+»ve Newbie uses PLEX to get ISK, and uses ISK to buy officer fit battleship to run level 5 missions in lowsec * Na+»ve Newbie loses officer fit battleship that literally cost over a hundred dollars/euros/pounds/hundreds of Icelandic Krona/whatever local currency is used, on its first voyage no less Don't be a Na+»ve Newbie. You really really really need to learn to fly by flying frigates first. They're not just cheaper, they're easier. I mean hey if you've got a lot of cash you don't mind blowing on the game then by all means get yourself a pirate frigate on your first day. But that will train you to play EVE a lot faster than a battleship will. You are not prepared to fly a battleship and you won't be any time soon. Now go rev up your frigate engines and get comfortable because that ship you can already fly within your first few minutes is a ship you can fly for the rest of your career. It'll serve you better than you ever imagined. Take it from me--I have trained skills for 6 years, I've played almost every aspect of EVE, I can fly capital ships. But my top five ships I'd take into any adventure, the top five I can trust to serve me well in all the right ways, are: 5.) Augoror cruiser 4.) Myrmidon battlecruiser 3.) Caracal cruiser 2.) Rifter frigate 1.) Heron frigate Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 3213	Posted - 2015.08.13 04:47:29 - [18] - Quote Allysa Nar wrote: I would like to say that I consider myself new to Eve online having played about every other MMO out there. I don't know if this is an appropriate forum to post this, but I know what limits Eve from attracting new players. Simply it takes too long to skill up. There is no way too power level skills. New players have the Eve learning curve to contend with. A daunting challenge in and of itself. To make matters worse the skills necessary to actually do anything in the game take years. Eve character development needs to be faster. When a new pilot joins eve they should be given way more skill points.. by way more I mean starting around 35 million skill points or so. Honestly I believe even more skill points would be better. New players would still have the eve learning curve to contend with. It would open the marketplace for new players to buy more plex to use more of the ships they normally couldn't pilot for a long time. This can easily be balanced by giving existing players the skill points that new players start with. In the end veterans and people who understand Eve will be the benefactors, but for a new player it will mean that they don't have to wait for years before feeling that they have the skill points necessary to do anything in eve. To be honest as a new player all I do anymore is queue my skills. I started my career with other characters doing mining/industrial to generate isk to do other things. Long story short I made tons of isk but my playstyle choices were limited despite having multiple accounts. Ultimately I made mistakes in building all of these as I learned the game. Anyways. Just logged on with one of my dudes to train skills. Wide variety of ships available for one race. I am considering playing again in 6 months when I have the flexibility to fly more ships. Might as well just quit with that attitude. If you do not play in those 6 months when you do have the skill points you wont have the knowledge to play. Do you understand transversal? Do you understand signature tanking? Do you understand falloff? What about stacking penalties? And Hell your employment history says you've been playing for almost 2 years. By that time in game I was in NS participating in major sov warfare. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Colt Blackhawk Viper-Squad pwn-O-graphy 311	Posted - 2015.08.13 07:45:45 - [19] - Quote Well I can understand you issues... BUT! 35mil sp is a joke okay.. 1mil sp for new players would be okay tbh. Main issue with players like you is that they have no clue howto play the game and there are no incentives in the game howto. A quick guide howto have a lot of fun plus isk with new toons in eve: 1.) Make a combat focused toon. Missiles would be maybe okay. You start with lv1 missions and learn game basics. After you trained up some basic skills after maybe 1 month you go to lowsec and start facwar. With your low skill point toon you will loose most fights but main idea is here to plex like hell for isk. And the fw isk with plexing will still be better than any industrial thingie you can do with a 1 month old toon. Mostly you will run away but if aynone is raging at you in local because he wants to kill a 1month old toon he is an idiot. 2.) Now you can choose. After 2 months and maybe 3mil sp you will be able to start pvp in fleets and even a bit solo. You can do it with your first toon or you focus your first toon on bombers to run fw missions which can be a cash cow of 200 up 300mil/h. If you make the first char a bear you start a new one focused on pvp. Good about lowsec fw is you make isk WHILE you pvp. Easily doable with a 2 or 3 months old toon. So you see: You simply had no clue. You can even PVP a lot and have fun plus participate in fleets with a 2.5mil sp toon. MAIN ISSUE HERE IS: People have no clue how and no one is telling them how. FW is actually the best way to get players straightforward into the game with low sp. [09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f**** amarr flag and s* on their smoking wrecks.
Nyalnara AdAstra. Beach Club 105	Posted - 2015.08.13 07:46:13 - [20] - Quote As far as i know, as an instructor for a school corp, the main problem encountered by our newbros is the fact that, to begin being competitive, they need core skills, because it allows for better fitting, tanking, and so on. Core skills are int+mem, and all other usefull skills while starting, combat related ones, are perc+willp. Problem, officer? Obvious fixes (you may choose multiple answers, i don't care): Remove attributes. That way, new players will not screw themselves while going through core skills and SC or gunnery at the same time. Except all older players may or may not be penalized, depending if new training time is average current training time, or fastest current training time. Give more core skills. That way, new players (and alts) will be able to focus on what they want to play, then go back to (and remap for) core skills later if needed. Lower the Weapon Upgrade V from Advanced Weapon Upgrade, to 4 or even 3. Because the main problem with fitting for new players is most of the time PWG, not CPU. Especially when trying to fit those PWG-hungry T2 weapons. (And slap a Weapon Upgrade V requirement on Marauder, we don't want those ships to be more accessible.) In case of ponies, keep calm and start running. French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
Lu Ziffer Jelly Baby Corporation Fidelas Constans 67	Posted - 2015.08.13 07:54:58 - [21] - Quote EVEs learning curve is very difficult or very easy it is a point of view. It can be difficult if you see the complexity and want it all at once but this is not possible I play this game for 8years and I do not know all of it and I definitely can not do everything even with 150mil SP. Or EVE is easy you look for what you want and then make a decision to go forward to this goal or wait but if you only wait and doubt yourself you will never have fun. To use CCP Manifest words "EVEs progression is like leaping of a cliff into the unknown". This complexity can not be fixed with ISK or SP because EVE is not about powerskills and overpowerd equipment it is about a shared experience created by the players for the players. Skills are only the beginning they are the training wheels for the most basic concept of EVE . Your decision matter and this is the real complexity, you must make a decision: "Do I skill amarr or caldari?" "Do I take the fight or retreat?" "Do I steal that stuff out of the corp hanger?" "Do I betray my coaliltion and lead the fleet into a trap?" "Am I the guy who kills newbies for fun?" "Am I a leader?" Skills are only about the player themself but everything else is in contact with othere players and they will remember your decision and there is not second server or any other safety net, only your decision and the consequences of it. So be happy you have time to learn and HTFU .
Leto Aramaus Spiritus Draconis Spaceship Bebop 207	Posted - 2015.08.13 12:27:04 - [22] - Quote This is a troll right? 35m starter SP? You've got to be joking. The UI update we deserve
Celthric Kanerian Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation 386	Posted - 2015.08.13 13:26:52 - [23] - Quote Allysa Nar wrote: Simply it takes too long to skill up. There is no way too power level skills. Back in line with this redundant ranting. EVE doesn't need it to change, otherwise the game will be full of impatient pricks. Allysa Nar wrote: mean starting around 35 million skill points or so.. 35 million skill points? holy hell... I've been playing for 4 years and I got 43 million sp... So absolutely no to making it THAT easy for new players.
Sonya Corvinus Grant Village 59	Posted - 2015.08.13 14:28:41 - [24] - Quote 17 day old solo rifter PvP disagrees with you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de1hwoFYA_k 20 day old solo executioner PvP disagrees with you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o Less than 35 mil SP Sonya Corvinus who has lived in HS, LS, null (null less than a month into the game) and WHs so far disagrees with you. Learn how to play. Don't blame the game for you not learning how to EVE.
Nyalnara AdAstra. Beach Club 105	Posted - 2015.08.13 14:53:32 - [25] - Quote Sonya Corvinus wrote: 17 day old solo rifter PvP disagrees with you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de1hwoFYA_k 20 day old solo executioner PvP disagrees with you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o Less than 35 mil SP Sonya Corvinus who has lived in HS, LS, null (null less than a month into the game) and WHs so far disagrees with you. Learn how to play. Don't blame the game for you not learning how to EVE. Those guys you're linking are NOT newbros. Those are new characters indeed, but the guy playing is really experienced, and is able to bypass the low skills through experience. Real newbros won't. And that's the point of this thread: newbros are bad, because they lack experience, AND skills. We cannot give them experience easily, as it depend of how we play, but we can give them a little more starting skills. 35M is way too much and everybody will agree about that, but more starting skills (reasonable amount) can hardly be a bad thing. In case of ponies, keep calm and start running. French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
Corraidhin Farsaidh Farsaidh's Freeborn 1533	Posted - 2015.08.13 15:12:32 - [26] - Quote Allysa Nar wrote: ... more I mean starting around 35 million skill points or so..... I have around 35 mil SP after 2 years, you are seriously recommending new players start at that point??? Given that my 35 mil allow me to very effectively mine, run PI, manufacture, invent, manufacture tech II and tech III goods and explore anywhere I wish I think that not only would that be stupidly excessive for a new player but it would also devalue each and every activity covered with a sudden influx of every player and his dog being able to accomplish those activities from the start. Not to mention how overwhelming trying to learn how to do everything in one go would be. It would also be incredibly demoralizing for them to run into PvP and be splattered over the COSMOS in their shiny tech II or tech III ship because they simply don't know how to use it. -1 from me.
Sonya Corvinus Grant Village 60	Posted - 2015.08.13 15:25:31 - [27] - Quote Nyalnara wrote: Those guys you're linking are NOT newbros. Those are new characters indeed, but the guy playing is really experienced, and is able to bypass the low skills through experience. Real newbros won't. And that's the point of this thread: newbros are bad, because they lack experience, AND skills. We cannot give them experience easily, as it depend of how we play, but we can give them a little more starting skills. 35M is way too much and everybody will agree about that, but more starting skills (reasonable amount) can hardly be a bad thing. That's exactly the point. The experience a rookie needs to gain is how to play the game, not more skillpoints.
Nyalnara AdAstra. Beach Club 105	Posted - 2015.08.13 16:10:57 - [28] - Quote Well, the current NPE does not give experience. How do you propose to solve that? In case of ponies, keep calm and start running. French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
Sonya Corvinus Grant Village 61	Posted - 2015.08.13 17:10:18 - [29] - Quote Nyalnara wrote: Well, the current NPE does not give experience. How do you propose to solve that? Join a corp, start asking questions and losing ships.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1553	Posted - 2015.08.13 17:33:55 - [30] - Quote Allysa Nar wrote: by way more I mean starting around 35 million skill points or so. Honestly I believe even more skill points would be better. My perfectly skilled, mostly focused Titan pilot has 57m SP. She has about 7m SP more than she currently needs to fly the ship with maxed skills. And you want to start new characters with 35m SP? That would mean that I could train perfectly skilled Titan pilots in 7.5 months... Violates Malcanis's Law - "Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of 'new players', that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players." Therefore not supported. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.

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