So, there's one limitation. There are plenty more. "Would Freelancer be as acclaimed if it had a ludicrous SP system?" Why is that? Why does it seem like there is no flock of subs for the only sandbox MMO? The most obvious answer is that it plays very little like one.

Logic would dictate that "subs are an SP problem, because the game seeming fun is an SP problem".

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3bf0ro/eves_loggedin_player_numbers/

Subs were not a problem when SP were even worse, so no to you logic.

True pilot mastery of ships, however, require a lot more skill training and personal experience.

Whether the amount of subs effects the experience is only one area of the conversation. In other words, "subs are of an SP equation, because fun comes from SP". If SP is fine at 0, then plausible entertainment is as unlimited as the sub's initiative for fulfilling a goal.


"A veteran should be able to show a fresh sub how to 1v10."


"Forget carrots and sticks.. the essence of motivation is effectiveness."

There's no inherent issue with a sandbox without an SP progression. There's plenty of discussion on how SP is a mitigating factor of fresh subs, and reduced veteran interest without replacements literally seems a "problem". What's the solution, then?

Is it worth admitting that a declining sub trend negatively effects the gameplay experience, which could further effect the sub trend? What about overall gameplay fatigue -- could it be reinvigorated by no-SP gameplay, with the option of teaming up with whatever fleet and of learning whatever role seems great? Dynamism is central.

Is more option sets more dynamic? Yes. Is actual dynamism in a "sandbox game" more interesting than arbitrary limitations? Yes. Then, are arbitrary limitations enough for limiting subscriptions? Here could sit a bunch of studies on motivation; but unless the willingness is there for admitting how interesting a truly open game could play, how uninteresting a very limited experience could seem and effect subs, and how abundance (and of subs as well) positively effects gameplay and content prevalence, there's probably no *motivation* for posting that, because there's no *effectiveness*.

Unbalancing the game to supposedly save it is not the solution. That I'm sure of.

Marketing on occasion gets a good concept and idea and brings massive people into the game, see this is Eve video.

The hurdle after that it keeping the person in for more than 1 second. This can almost solely be dealt with by addressing the basic quality of life issues people run into day 1.

1) the overview is confusing and the default sucks.
2) missions should be audio fed. Meaning the mission briefing should talk you through the entire mission read vs just reading it.
3) the newbie ship is woefully undergunned
4) the market layout is confusing.
5) there are no default ship layouts.
6) damage notifications and numbers need to be more pronounced and less spammy.
7) missions should give you ISk and some loot (so a new player can understand what goes where.

I'd fix the into a hurtle by doing this

1) create a viable 5 tab overview that works, so that the first thing people don't have to do is go looking for overviews. They can if they want, but update the default one
2) have people (the devs), all spend some time doing audio voice overs for missions. No need to do everything but the newbie missions should provide the newbies the voice of the game designers talking them through the game
3) remove the mining lazer off the newbie ship. Add a second gun and make the first mission give you an afterburner. After mission 1, all noob ships should come default out of insurance, with 2 guns, an afterburner, and a damage control.
4) the market should provide in their quick tab, fits for 2 of each races t1 frigates. So that the player can highlight and buy the equipment easy vs trying to find fits online. They will ultimately but at the beginning bypass that whale of an issue and give them recommended fits
5) akin to 4, provide them a basic pve ship layout, and pvp ship layout for 2 t1 frigates so they can have fast fun.
6 glancing blows should be small texts, and crushing hits big bold text. Similar to how most games denote damage. This provides feed back that they are in their optimal range to be doing lots of damage. Every massively huge hit, give them a visual notification
7) missions in total should start providing more loot. Faction mods, storyline stuff, every so often a mission reward should be a module vs just pure ISk. In the beginning the reward for newbie missions tends to be ships, but that stops. Return to that.

Gating is no inherent game balance. What, is dosh the issue? Every ISK faucet is under a button.

Yet, upshipping requires more funds.

SP reduces gameplay -- the amount of content -- which is the main criticism with the game.

The 'content' most people are complaining about has nothing to do with sp and is mostly complained about by vets. The content noobs are complaining about that they cant get into because they dont have the sp is not actually out of their reach.

There are bigger criticisms to the game than sp. If you truly think that the degree of a 'problem' is defined by the amount of people whining about it then get in line after; ganking, wardecs, afk cloaking, jump drive nerfs, fozzie sov, the toxic playerbase, the detached dev team, jita scams, plex prices etc etc

Whining =/= problem

That is content you aspire to participate in at some point.

There can't be one without the other with EvE, though. Either SP reduces the amount of gameplay per character, which effects the whole game, or it effects nothing.

*Discussion not about SP, but skillful play (which can be learned).*

*The implication that this is somehow evidence about the validity of SP.*

Sp does effect gameplay. But that in no way means that lack of sp means you are denied content.

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Ships, modules, and playstyles defined by fittings aren't content? If not flying ships nor playing the market nor industry.. then there's plenty of space here to define "content", but the point stands. SP limits gameplay. That's its whole.

So what are you saying? People are leaving the game because they cant use a bastion module On day one?

Excuse, the question is what gameplay comes from SP.