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Pathetic implementation of game mechanics ruins gameplay

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard	Posted - 2006.12.12 11:09:00 - [61] Havn't read all reply's. Ginger, the mechanic was created, because a gang of corp m8's was blowing up people in yulai (if i remember correctly). And their support ships was not shot down. And now you want to revert to that same state and have people grief again, but now in Jita. I guess CCP won't "unnerf" your piracy.
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.12 11:09:00 - [62] Methinks someone lost a logistics ship because they didnt understand game mechanics...could be wrong though.
Slax Kalimatar Minmatar Sarlacc Pit Industries	Posted - 2006.12.12 11:18:00 - [63] Originally by: Sales Merchant snip Very few pirates are complaining, most have adapted, why haven't you Ginger? he has... thats why he is sitting day after day in a thanotos at hagilur gate or camping the station in otou, tanking the sentrys for himself and his corpmembers. ((and be a nice shooting practise target or whatever [enter here what you like}))
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.12 11:18:00 - [64] I agree that the sentries should automatically shoot then. If you remote-repair a pirate, then you should be flagged like the pirate, if you haven't been flagged your self before, like: - if the pirate isn't flagged, the supporter doesn't get flagged for anything - if the pirate has an agression timer running, the aupporter should get an agression timer too - if the pirate is criminally flagged, the supporter should get flagged in the same way Makes more sense to me. Just because you don't like GM doesn't mean, that he can't have a valid point. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Slax Kalimatar Minmatar Sarlacc Pit Industries	Posted - 2006.12.12 11:20:00 - [65] Edited by: Slax Kalimatar on 12/12/2006 11:21:35 Originally by: Plutoinum Edited by: Plutoinum on 12/12/2006 11:19:06 Edited by: Plutoinum on 12/12/2006 11:18:26 I agree that the sentries should automatically shoot then. If you remote-repair a pirate, then you should be flagged like the pirate, if you haven't been flagged your self before, like: - if the pirate isn't flagged, the supporter doesn't get flagged for anything - if the pirate has an agression timer running, the supporter should get an agression timer too - if the pirate is criminally flagged, the supporter should get flagged in the same way ... Let the flags carry over to the supporter. Makes more sense to me. Just because you don't like GM doesn't mean, that he can't have a valid point. you didnt read that, he got no valid point, you need to disagree with GM. he wants that the supporter NOT to get flagged by supporting the 3 points above. edith says: ok for #1 you its totally ok, if you got no flag, you will get no flag supporting, but thats about normal, isnt it? and if you read carefully, he and his corp are -5.0 or lower, means they are permanent flagged...
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.12 11:27:00 - [66] Edited by: Plutoinum on 12/12/2006 11:35:08 Originally by: Slax Kalimatar and if you read carefully, he and his corp are -5.0 or lower, means they are permanent flagged... Sentries don't shoot at a -10 character AFAIK, unless he engages a victim. So they shouldn't shoot the supporter, unless the pirate has engaged someone. Like I said, supporting a pirate, who isn't in combat, could cause a sec. hit, but not sentry fire imho. I think deriving/carrying over the flags and timers from the pirate to the supporter makes sense. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
migwar Lawless Industries	Posted - 2006.12.12 11:51:00 - [67] go to planet to rep up? Its a criminal act, your helping that criminal get back up to armour to do naughty stuff again,
Slax Kalimatar Minmatar Sarlacc Pit Industries	Posted - 2006.12.12 12:55:00 - [68] Originally by: migwar go to planet to rep up? ... he will not do that anyways. 1. He is in a carrier 2. He must disband his gate camp for rep up, though loosing noob ship killmails
Matrix Aran Legio Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.12 12:55:00 - [69] No point saying "I'm in a GM thread" really... there are so many of them its hard not to be. Again this is comedy really. We could go on and on about how if ginger wanted some better gang mechanics he should go to 0.0 but that would just fuel the fire. Instead just everyone sit back and giggle quietly whenever he walks past. Don't say anything, just laugh. ---- Originally by: Oveur on rigs Sure, np, it's only like ... the 6th time I say this here
Rawthorm Gallente The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2006.12.12 13:01:00 - [70] The Op does have a point. It is a bit odd that your support character gets flagged a shot at BEFORE the character your supporting does. I mean I can understand you being shot at once your teammate make a criminal move, but when your sitting there doing nothing, your team mate shouldnt get penilized.

Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.12 13:04:00 - [71] Originally by: Rawthorm The Op does have a point. It is a bit odd that your support character gets flagged a shot at BEFORE the character your supporting does. I mean I can understand you being shot at once your teammate make a criminal move, but when your sitting there doing nothing, your team mate shouldnt get penilized. The one that is about to be repaired is already permanently flagged. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Zarch AlDain The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2006.12.12 13:48:00 - [72] The OP does have one going point...which is that the -5 person is not being fired on. The system is being inconsistent. Either the gate guns should automatically fire on anyone below -5 OR they should not fire on the logistics until such a time as the ship being helped aggresses. Personally I don't mind either way - although I would experience a certain evil glee if the sentries just started opening up on anyone with low enough sec rating. Zarch AlDain
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.12 14:01:00 - [73] this thread is funny on so many levels. i tend to agree with what you say most of the time, but you cant expect people to take what you say seriously in context of the rest of the stuff you say *Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar*
mr passie Minmatar Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.12 14:20:00 - [74] rofl, seeing as ginger always seems to get the exact opposite resonse he wants, can you start a nerf nminnie thread, hell make an amarr one too I'm a reversed paranoid schizophrenic. I have voices in my head I just think I don't hear them!
Jake Noble Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.12 14:29:00 - [75] Quote: I like whining on the forums.It gets all the little ugh excited. Could this possibly be why you are one of the most hated eve players in the game? Not because you are good at PVP its been said time and time again and proven time and time again you really arent that good. Maybe the fact that you are the most arrogant players I have ever seen post on the forums; your ego is too big for this game and certainly you are not the best pvper - there is no way for anyone to say i am the best pvper in the game because you have never entered the PVP tournaments in the game and its safe to say I am almost certain some of the bob ascn and other pilots from large decent like that would destroy you.
Dominious	Posted - 2006.12.12 14:59:00 - [76] HI MOM! \o/
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2006.12.12 15:08:00 - [77] Some people seem to be getting confused. There are two rough states in lowsec to do with criminality Criminally Flagged- You are a free target but sentries will not engage you Criminally Aggressed- You are a free target and sentries will engage you I believe what GM is complaining about is that remotely assisting someone who is criminally flagged will make you criminally aggressed, when logically it should only make you criminally flagged. As it stands now, assisting an outlaw is treated as a worse crime than being an outlaw, which seems wrong. Ohgod, i almost agree with GM ________________ What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete
Emsigma Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.12 15:11:00 - [78] Edited by: Emsigma on 12/12/2006 15:13:53 Originally by: Ginger Magician Listen morons when I make a post I think it out and know my facts unlike most of you. You mean like the warp scrambling torpedoes and the fighters that jump through gates to follow their targets? Apart from that I agree. YOu shouldn't get flagged for repping someone who does not have agression timer. ---
Kharakan Amarr Morticus Impendium	Posted - 2006.12.12 15:25:00 - [79] Where the hell is that guy with the TII Smallest Fiddle picture? I want him in here, now. Originally by: Joshua Foiritain (to Dark Shikari) HAHAHA I KNOW YOUR ACCOUUNT NAME TIME TO DIE this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
Damien Smith Turbulent	Posted - 2006.12.12 15:27:00 - [80] Aside from this being a Ginger thread, and as such deserves turning into a spam fest as usual, the guy's got a point. The corp I'm in has exactly the same problem when engaging in our usual empire wars. When not out doing the whole yarr thing we like to declare war on corps that we feel might be fun to fight against. During these wars we've often wanted to use remote assistance as part of our tactics, but this mechanic prevents us. Ignoring the fact that we're outlaws for a second, consider this: Our corp enters a system, all of our guys have a remote repper fitted, so that we can assist whoever's called primary. Note that none of us are criminally flagged, sentries aren't firing on us, we're being good little boys, etc. Now enter our concord authorised war targets. These guys are neutral sec but valid targets for us to shoot at due to the war dec. We have equal numbers and they also have fitted remote assistance mods (lets say for this example they all have remote shield reps because they're dirty stab abusing caldari scum). If our corp wasn't outlaw, the following would happen: They shoot one of ours, we rep him. We're all happy and dancing and eating pie and stuff. We shoot one of theirs, they're also happy and dance and eat pie. All is well. Now take the fact that we're a pirate corp and are therefore outlaws (by corp policy of course, no npc whoring for us. To not flash red is to not be a '1337 piwat') The following happens: We shoot one of theirs, they rep him. They're happy and dance and eat pie, as before. They shoot one of ours, we rep him. We don't dance or eat pie because we're not happy. Our nice fair equally matched battle of Us vs Them has now become Us vs Them + Uberomgwtfsentriesofdoom. This is not good. We weren't flagged, sentires didn't care that we were sat there but repping a gang mate is apparently some heinous crime and must be punished. Lets get one thing straight: This isn't a whine to allow us to have logistics boosted infinitank gatecamps a la Zombie. Assisting someone who's flagged should flag the assistee, and quite rightly so. The problem is flagging someone who assisted a corpmate, who wasn't flagged but was an outlaw. If the sentries don't care about us being there unflagged and causing no harm, why should they suddenly care because we repped a corpmate or someone remote repped one of their own drones, etc. As much as it pains me to say so, I agree with Ginger... ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) Mission running carebears drop good loot. Probe one out today! I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg +=♥ - Immy

Rina Shanu Computer-Aided General Exploitation	Posted - 2006.12.12 15:41:00 - [81] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Tortuga Reborn who is OctoberSnow? Pirate corporation known for their ego and effective ganking of shuttles and noobships. That is correct. Plus the level of whinage GM reached lately is getting as big as his epeen. Still, if in same corp, no matter what sec status you have, helping another corp member in any way should be allowed. JOIN CAGE
Damien Smith Turbulent	Posted - 2006.12.12 15:44:00 - [82] Originally by: Jake Noble Edited by: Jake Noble on 12/12/2006 04:18:41 Question: What happens when you aid a criminal in RL? You become a criminal its a crime to help or aid a felon. Now what happens when you aid a felon in game? You get criminally flagged. Pretty simple I think... Carebear logic for the win eh? Lets break this down for the hard of understanding among us: RL Scenario 1: A criminal is in the process of commiting a crime, you help him in a way that assists him in commiting said crime. Result: You are aiding and abetting a criminal in the process of commiting a crime. You are now considered a criminal, you get owned by the police. IG Scenario 1: An outlaw is camping a gate, is flagged and is pwning noobs left and right. You remote rep him, therefore assisting him in commiting his crime. Result: You are aiding and abetting a criminal in the process of commiting a crime. You are now considered a criminal, you get owned by the police. This seems logical, no? Now consider scenario 2. RL Scenario 2: A criminal who isn't in the process of commiting a crime is minding his own business, crossing a road. While crossing that road he gets hit by a car, is injured and needs medical attention. You notice this happening and perform emergency first aid. Result: You're a damn hero, and anyone who would even consider having you arrested for aiding and abetting a criminal would be laughed at for being a looney. Still with me? IG Scenario 2: An outlaw is sat near a station, minding his own business, not causing any harm to anyone and isn't flagged. A friend of his comes along and notices he needs his armour repairing. Result: The good samaritan gets flagged for no reason and gets omgwtfpwned by the sentries. Still think that it's a valid game mechanic? ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) Mission running carebears drop good loot. Probe one out today! I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg +=♥ - Immy
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.12 15:50:00 - [83] Originally by: Damien Smith [...] Sounds like a bug to me. Petition for reimbursement and send in a bug report. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.12.12 15:57:00 - [84] Ginger is correct and this is a fault in the flagging mechanics. people jumping to flame just because it's him are the ones that can't do anything about him ingame and are happy to have some relief on the forums at least. go dig up the stupid threads about scramming torps and uber AFs and flame there if you want. this one is correct.
Damien Smith Turbulent	Posted - 2006.12.12 15:59:00 - [85] Originally by: Tachy Originally by: Damien Smith [...] Sounds like a bug to me. You're damn right. Unfortunately until it's officially recognised as such, it will remain a 'game mechanic'. ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) Mission running carebears drop good loot. Probe one out today! I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg +=♥ - Immy
Zebler Four Horsemen	Posted - 2006.12.12 16:02:00 - [86] Originally by: Damien Smith RL Scenario 2: A criminal who isn't in the process of commiting a crime is minding his own business, crossing a road. While crossing that road he gets hit by a car, is injured and needs medical attention. You notice this happening and perform emergency first aid. Result: You're a damn hero, and anyone who would even consider having you arrested for aiding and abetting a criminal would be laughed at for being a looney. Still with me? IG Scenario 2: An outlaw is sat near a station, minding his own business, not causing any harm to anyone and isn't flagged. A friend of his comes along and notices he needs his armour repairing. Result: The good samaritan gets flagged for no reason and gets omgwtfpwned by the sentries. Still think that it's a valid game mechanic? Yup, still thinking its working as intended. There is no EVE equivalent of your real life scenario. The only reason that the criminal is low on armour is because he has been up to no good at some point in the past. There are no innocent cars coming along to hurt him EVE has given the pirate ample chances to mend his ways. They cannot track him everywhere that he goes. By the time he is -5, the game just assumes that if he is in trouble, he has only himself to blame. It also assumes that anyone helping him for any reason is commiting an offence and should be flagged. The only thing wrong here is that sentry guns are not shooting ppl with -5 on sight. They are sentry guns after all, they are meant to shoot at criminals.
Damien Smith Turbulent	Posted - 2006.12.12 16:19:00 - [87] Originally by: Zebler Yup, still thinking its working as intended. There is no EVE equivalent of your real life scenario. The only reason that the criminal is low on armour is because he has been up to no good at some point in the past. Ok, theoretical situation for you: A -10 sec pirate decides to go carebear, so he travels to 0.0 and slowly begins the long process of regaining his sec status. He gets to -5.1, then needs to return to low sec to stock up on ammo and drones. While travelling to his home station he jumps into a pirate gatecamp, takes damage but escapes. A few systems over he's spotted by a member of the high sec carebear mission running corp he's planning to join (once he gets his sec up that is). His friend is a noob of the most harmless kind, who simply wants to help his new friend and save him a few isk on repairs. His carebear friend gets owned by sentries. Originally by: Zebler There are no innocent cars coming along to hurt him No, but there are pirates, antipirates, random griefers, npc's, etc, etc. Originally by: Zebler By the time he is -5, the game just assumes that if he is in trouble, he has only himself to blame. We all know what assumption is the mother of don't we? Originally by: Zebler It also assumes that anyone helping him for any reason is commiting an offence and should be flagged. See above. Originally by: Zebler The only thing wrong here is that sentry guns are not shooting ppl with -5 on sight. They are sentry guns after all, they are meant to shoot at criminals. Surely that's not deterrent enough for these evil psychotic pirates. After all they torture small animals in real life, have no friends and are generally bad eggs. Here's an idea: Why not make all PvP consentual only, make all offensive modules inoperable in empire space, hell, why not ask for a full psychiatric evaluation to be performed before you're allowed to connect and ban anyone who would consider attacking anyone for any reason from the game? ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) Mission running carebears drop good loot. Probe one out today! I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg +=♥ - Immy
Templer Relleg Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.12 16:26:00 - [88] Helping a criminal(See low sec status, or blinking), is a criminal. I think this is good. Quit whining, just because cant gank shuttles and noobships anymore
St Dragon Blood Association of Dragons	Posted - 2006.12.12 16:35:00 - [89] Yoo Hoo im in a Ginger Thread. Have fun practacing your LeeT skills poding shuttles and newbs with your carrier ----------------------------------------------- "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand

Suvetar Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.12.12 16:35:00 - [90] I've cleaned this thread up now, I would be wary of posting any more troll here - Mmmkay ? Right; to the Op - AFAIK the mechanic is correct because once you hit -5.0 you are in essence permanently flagged as you're proven to be dangerous, anyone helping you would be aiding and abetting. However, instead of posting in an imflamatory fashion here, I suggest that you send a Bug Report in. forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our new Website!




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